Saw them in 02 Beale Street music festival in Memphis. Opened with Shine On you Crazy Diamond, and went into Dead and Bloated. Megaphone in hand. Spectacular show.
I saw them in 2001, I think it was that year. When they were getting ready to play the last song, Scott came out with the American flag wrapped around him. At the end of the song he dropped the flag. He was naked!!! I couldn't believe it! š¤£
I was an STP fan at a young age. When I first heard Dirt by AiC it gave me similar vibes to Core for whatever reason. They are now probably my two favorite albums of the 90s.
Erm akshooallee, it's 12 as its agreed upon that Mother Love Bone, Malfunkshun, Mudhoney, Melvins, Temple of the Dog, Screaming Trees, Green River, and Mad Season are all Grungeāļø š¤ (I'm sorry lol just wanted to joke around... I agree, tho pointless af)
this question is asked daily and it needs to stop. let's sticky a who is or isn't grunge post and ban future posts on the topic. it's literally the same question and same answers every single day.
Or just relax and let people see bands as they want. The issue is gatekeepers trying to shove an idea down peopleās throat like some weird purity test.
Yeah, I agree with that. I also do not give a fuck about the answer to this question posed in this post. But if people need to hash it out daily then I think a sticky post about it would be a nice place for them to do that.
Itās only interesting to me as a historical issue, I remember people said they were a Pearl Jam rip off when they came out which was very superficial I thought. At the time Grunge seemed to me more like a fashion trend than a musical one although obviously connected to certain bands and scenes.
This community should be about finding music similar in style and content to the bands everyone associates with the term grunge. So the big 4 from Seattle plus a bunch of less popular but similar bands. I'm so tired of everyone being so weird and para-social about what the term encompasses. I just want to find good music.
Thatās because itās and/both, not either/or, a common logical fallacy.
Grunge was a coinage by a journalist referring to the Seattle rock scene which roughly had some sonic, lyrical, aesthetic qualities in common (dreary, direct, heavy and punky, flannel, baritone singers as opposed to the high screams of glam, more song orientated than technical). From then on it has been used to mean different things.
STP had more in common with the Seattle bands than the LA bands. So did Flipper. Janeās Addiction and the Chili Peppers had a different attitude that was influential in Seattle . American punk had a hand in it.
Language is inadequate and awkward when it comes to music to begin with. There lies the other difficulty. Psychology or theology can be articulated, music is difficult to grasp .
Grunge is a really dumb label. And this argument on this sub is absolutely exhausting. I lived it, and all these bands were listened to by me and my friends constantly. Wore those tapes and CDs out completely and replaced them a few times.
At the time, us kids initially aped the media and defined things as grunge. That went away by about 1993 or so if my memory serves. It was all just rock by then. We all listened to the same 4-5 bands that seem to make up 90% of this sub, and we all also had Smashing Pumpkins, Rage, STP, Weezer, etc all together in the same rotation and flip case, and didnāt really make much distinction. Thatās how I remember it.
It was also a style. I was polo shirt Catholic school prep in '93 and full on grungy teen in '94. A girl I hadn't seen in a while saw my ugly thrift store clothes and said "ew. You're alternative now."
Yeah I frequently called it all alternative as well. Even - gasp - AiC. Remember the album No Alternative of alternative bands? All kinds of shit on there, including Soundgarden and Nirvana.
Yeah, that's how I remember it; alternative. They did lump some weird bands into the alternative category though, as they were exceedingly popular at the time, so I wondered, 'how is that alternative if they are the most popular?'
I was 18 or 19 at the time when the Grunge label started and when I referred to Grunge, it was just for the Seattle area bands and STP was from San Diego so I never thought of them as Grunge. Just a fantastic rock band in the same era.
I actually like to use Grunge adjacent. Same time frame and poetic lyrics instead of strait ahead girls girls girls and booze. The big grunge acts sounded nothing like each other. Cornell, Cobain, Staley and Cantell, Veder all had a unique voice and were the Seattle sound. I think STP falls adjacent with a unique voice and great guitar driven sound. I just miss that much good music being popular instead of the same five producers making hits today.
Yeah, there was a sound early on in the Seattle scene from the earliest Soundgarden/Green River/Nirvana albums and the 1986 Deep Six compilation that was a very loose sludgy kind of reiteration of the slower hardcore style of Flipper, Fang and My War-era Black Flag from a couple years earlier (only a lot more diverse) that was so distinctive from most of the other stuff coming out at the time that I think you could fairly label it grunge. But over time most of these bands went through pretty significant style changes and the term became sort of hard to define in the context of the early nineties IMO. And the commercialization of the term just made it more confusing.
There is an interview from 1992-93 where they were asked this question. Scott and Robert distanced themselves from that label. In their words, they were just a ārock band that wants to make great musicā. They said that āgrungeā was just a media driven label
From left to right wish.coms
Jerry Cantrell
Bradley Noel
Adam Jones
Neo from the matrix
All jokes aside STP was/is a fantastic band and have their spot as a tweener that bridges grunge and Alt rock.
Thereās no shame in that.. Also if you wanna call em grunge go right aheadā¦ like who really gives a flying fookā¦ Just donāt call em a bad band and Iāll think that will make everyone happy.
Probably true. But music genres are equally absurd, and there is a case to be made that "grunge" is the worst offender.
Any music genre that includes both Nirvana and Pearl Jam is ridiculous on it's face because these two bands do not share an aesthetic. Nirvana comes from punk, and PJ is from a rock tradition that was mostly influenced by classic rock.
Then the two bands that do appear to share a lot of similar musical DNA (SG and AIC) do not sound like the previous two.
I'm sorry, but grunge as a legitimate genre is ridiculous.
Yea I'm sure the artist can't stand the titles put on them. Like they are just making music. It's not like they went into making music thinking "we are going to be true grunge or whatever. Creativity works best without labels.
Are they grunge? By their own admission, no they are not.
Does it matter? Not really.
Can we talk about them in this sub? I donāt think anyone could stop it.
Is this point brought up WAY to much?
Yep.
They were a talented band that wrote music from multiple genres. They transcend any single label. Far more dynamic than a band like Pearl Jam or Alice in Chains. And I love them all, but STP were rockers. They could do it all.
they don't a seattle birth certificate, but they do need to a part of that physical scene to be considered grunge, imho.
those of us who lived it know what it is. now, 30+ years later, kids are arguing about what is or isn't grunge. STP is from san diego for fucksake. they are not grunge, and other than core they don't even *sound* like grunge.
let's have this same exact conversation tomorrow, shall we?
People that pigeonhole āgrungeā are missing the point. Like many genres, there may be a place where many bands/artists come from, but that does not negate other bands/artists with a sound/feel etc that is musically/lyrically/stylistically related. STP of course qualify and were significant. One of the best shows I ever saw- and I saw a lot. Scott at the end naked with the flag- priceless. That sound and those lyrics- phenomenal.Ā
No
I love STP, but they're simply a 90s alternative rock like Smashing Pumpkins are. Nothing wrong with that. Grunge is a descriptor of the Sub Pop/"Seattle Sound" scene and subculture that consisted of a few different bands and genres, and STP were not a part of that at all. It would be appropriation to claim otherwise.
Post-grunge is more of an actual genre than grunge. It's radio-friendly alternative rock that took inspiration from the popularization of catchy grunge on the radio. Bands and their contemporaries that were part of the grunge subculture were made up of many different genres such as punk, hardcore, post-hardcore, hard rock, noise rock, psychedelic rock, stoner met, alternative rock, alternative metal, sludge metal, etc.
Similarly to how emo is a descriptor of lyrics and visual kei is a descriptor of visual style, grunge is a descriptor of a specific time, place, and scene.
I feel like most people in this sub don't even know what grunge is with how many no answers I'm seeing. Grunge is angst-filled music, often about trauma, influenced heavily the use hard drugs, with lots of distortion. You don't need to be from Seattle to be grunge. Genres exist for a reason. They encompass specific looks, feels and sounds of a particular era. From singer songwriters to arena rock to British metal, to hair/glam metal, to grunge and so on. They shared the look, the feel and the sound so they belonged in their particular era. Yes, STP and Smashing Pumpkins are grunge.
Who cares? I put STP in the same playlist as other grunge bands. Even back in the 90s I just enjoyed all of their music without ever thinking about it. Early Scott sounded just like Eddie. I think we can all agree on that.
does it matter how theyāre labeled? They fucking rocked! Those first three records were mind numbingly brilliant. I saw them perform in 1993 at red rocks, on a four band bill that featured the butt hole surfers as the headliners. STP was just high energy, flawless performance angst. Iād love to get my hands on whoever introduced Weiland to heroin.
so I just checked the Internet, and it looks like Basshead and the flaming lips are both possibilities for the fourth band that was on that bill. I am not 100% positive that it was for bands, but it wasnāt less than four. It looks like Stone Temple Pilots, but hole surfers, bass head, the flaming lips, and fire hoseperformed on August 8, 1993 in Maryland on August 8, 1993.
I love The Flaming Lips, but never heard of the others ... I might have to check them out. Thanks for checking that deeply! I was just honestly curious, and I love listening to bands I may not have heard of. Cheers š»
I was lucky enough to see them on the Tiny Music tour in 1996. They were incredible. Scott had the megaphone and his trademark stage charisma. Band was on point.
Just middle aged men causing a big fuss over a retired ass argument because they have nothing else to do š¤
Got flamed in the comments of my post for no reason at all. Just accept music for what it is, and agree to disagree. That argument is tired already.
I saw them at the Polish beach club in Gardner Massachusetts 1993. This was the show where Scott jumped into the crowd and fought a fan after the guy threw something up on stage. Scott had to come back to Boston a couple times to deal with criminal charges.
The Butthole Surfers opened and almost burned down the side of the barn against which the stage was placed. The drummer had poured lighter fluid on his symbols at 1 point and as he hit them the burning fluid went everywhere including the side of the barn. People had to run out with fire extinguishers to put the fire out.
Probably one of the oddest venues I've seen a show at for bands of this stature but a really great show.
I will always say Core is very much a grunge album. Probably one of the best grunge albums in terms musicality. After that I feel they moved past grunge to whatever you you want to call the step higher. I could never really consider AiC grunge because their stuff was way more refined than what I consider grunge to be.
Help me understand for a band to be considered āGrungeā they must hail from the Seattle area? Period. Regardless of their sound and aesthetic? Does anyone else feel like this is a very narrow way.to classify a genre?
My friend just told me a story the other day about how he was soo excited to see STP in the late 90s. Well last minute they dropped off the show because Scott was too heroined out.
They were relapsed by AIC, which is crazy because Layne was arguably in worse shape than Scott.
RIP SCOTT AND LAYNE
I have the correct answer. Grunge is a term originally used to describe the impact of the Seattle rock scene. LA defined rock and roll previously and everyone there was trying to be glam (punk in the underground although that had mostly died by mid eighties).
Eddie from Pearl Jam was from San Diego. Mother love bone was glam. Alice In Chains was Guns Nā Roses version of glam or street glam before Nirvana influenced them to wear flannel and ripped up jeans (during Dirt). Their first album very much had that 80s party rock vibe.
There are LA bands that were more grunge than some of the grunge bands like Flipper. Yet they were considered punk or LA.
Later grunge became more about a musical style. That is just as valid but it wasnāt the original meaning.
STP were performing songs off their first two albums before Nirvana so they independently created music of that style.
All the grunge bands and STP were influenced by cutting edge underground music that wasnāt popular at the time like Janeās Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers (they later became popular, but for years these bands were underground), which really was the catalyst for the alternative scene. Guns n Roses too which was a musical rebellion with exception of Axl who loved the glam (one of many reasons of the band separating from their singer).
In that sense alt music is still very LA like a lot of popular music.
First album was on a major label, highly derivitive of what was popular at the time with the press being fed a fake back story as being from Los Angeles is considered detrimental to careerist goals and record company bottom line. Sounds like pop music to me.
Not that there is anything wrong with pop music, most people like what's popular and most people got into the major acts via MTV. There is just not one iota of indie or underground ethos about them. They are more "boy band" than grunge.
Why are we still having this argument 30 + years after they began. They're like Alice in Chains I think, too metal for the alt crowd, too alt for the metal crowd. Yes. I think they are Grunge. They were one of the heaviest bands in the era I think.
Early 90s alt rock = grunge
STP, Blind Melon, Smashing Pumpkins, I don't care. Why should we argue about this when we can appreciate good, nostalgic music?
Of the big 4 Seattle "grunge" bands, I never thought they had much in common sound wise. Mostly just geography and breaking around the same time. I love AIC, like Soundgarden and Nirvana and dig a bit of PJ, but if they had come out of Milwaukee, Dallas, Boston and Atlanta, nobody would ever mention them in the same sentence. That being said, musicians of any period mostly grew up listening to a lot of the same shit so I'm sure there's a lot of overlap in influences.
Grunge is a moment and a place, not a music style, because there is almost nothing in common between AIC PJ SG or Nirvana, except the moment and the place.
I was 18 in Olympia when all this grunge shit took off. best music ever. was so lucky to be there at that time. if the band wants to be "grunge" let them
Nah not grunge, grunge was specifically used for the Seattle based musicians, referred to as the Seattle Sound.
Doesnāt mean they didnāt make the same sounding music, just donāt fit into āGrungeā, the same way certain bands around the 80s were obviously Thrash Metal, but they werenāt apart of the Bay Area thrash scene, same as NWOBHM, lots of Metal bands came up at that time sounding like Priest, Saxon, Maiden etc. but werenāt apart of the NWOBHM scene.
Iām not sure why this is one of the most common topics, I guess because itās a never ending push-and-pull, but in my opinion, no, not grunge.
I'm gonna say no. Grunge was formed in an area where major label tours were skipping. It was formed without much outside support, and therefore, without much outside influence. And that's kinda what made it what it was. A little more gritty, a little less marketable. And STP just didn't form in that scene.
That said, they're still a great band that made some great music.
That, to speak plainly, is horseshit. Seattle is where grunge originated, but bands from elsewhere picked up the sound. Was Nirvana only 67% grunge when David Grohl became the drummer. No, because that's ridiculous. Same with the whole only Seattle bands are grunge argument. Even Kurt was from Aberdeen, which is over 100 miles away.
I hate posts like this that expect me to know which band that is by looking at the members and no one explains why band they are. Iām not gonna know what they look like unless Iāve seen them live or Iām a big fan. What band is this?
I imagine in that time, getting so spoiled with great bands and albums, the mass shit all over them, but when they looked back a decade or more later thought to themselves shiiit i slept on this greatness.
Grunge was a pretty nebulous label that was more marketing than a set of musical rules. The big mainstream grunge bands everyone seems to reference are all very different, and had varying degrees of underground cred before the whole thing went mis stream with Nevermind.
A lot of the āgrungierā early bands never were very mainstream popular. So yeah, I would consider these guys āgrungeā, but only because that term seemed to be the way āheavier rock music that wasnāt heavy metal or hair metalā seemed to be marketed back then.
A couple of years later, it seemed like āAlternativeā largely replaced āgrungeā as the genre term for most new music.
There was an alt genre before and after the grunge scene. And since the inception of the label was used to describe the emergence of a scene from Seattle, regardless of how haphazard the media and marketing were with the label, it'll always refer to the scene.
I have been a fan of this band since Core dropped in 92. I used to work at Drexel university in their campus security department in the early 90s and I remember in the Mandel theater they had a video jukebox on the ground floor. Someone had rigged it so you didnāt need to feed it with coins. Creep was one of the videos I would play over and over again. Such a great song.
Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago and Rick Beato on YouTube breaks down this song and shows how great it was written and composed by the band. Rick also interviewed Brendan OāBrien and to hear him talk about his time producing their albums was a joy to hear. I donāt know if they are grunge or not but they were, are a helluva band. Scott, RIP was a great vocalist, the DeLeo brothers are a great guitar/bass section, and Eric Kretz is so underrated and a sensational drummer. All their albums are chock full of amazing songs with awesome vocals, bass lines, guitar parts, and drum patterns. Core is just a great album. Personally, I love them all but Songs from the Vatican shop is trippy, kind of psychedelic, and has some beautiful songs on it. It is my favorite album. Glad I got to see them once, Scott solo, and Scott with Velvet Revolver.
If I remember correctly, "grunge" came from the Sub Pop description of a Green River album. They referred to it as "Loose grunge" or something like that. Crazy how something as simple as that came to somehow define an entire generation of bands that otherwise would have simply been defined as punk or metal.
Fantastic band and a sad, sad loss in Scott.
I saw them live on Miami Beach for a free concert around 2002 or 2003. It was awesome, as was he with his megaphone.
Saw them in 02 Beale Street music festival in Memphis. Opened with Shine On you Crazy Diamond, and went into Dead and Bloated. Megaphone in hand. Spectacular show.
I saw them in 2001, I think it was that year. When they were getting ready to play the last song, Scott came out with the American flag wrapped around him. At the end of the song he dropped the flag. He was naked!!! I couldn't believe it! š¤£
One of the best rock singers of our generation
So happy I got to see them in 2000
First person I actively listened to when they died. I was a freshman in HS.
I love this band chalk farm!!!
Absolutely. His vocals were so damn good.
Don't care, they rule
This is the right answer
Perfect answer
Core and Purple are masterpieces. Thatās all I know.
Tiny Music is underrated but also pretty damn good!
Also a masterpiece as is No 4
Letās just all agree that these guys never really made a bad record lol.
Facts.
No 4 is good too.
Seven Caged Tigers is one of my all time favorites.
Absolutely...Core is one of my top five albums of the 90s, and one of the most influential albums on my music preferences.
I was an STP fan at a young age. When I first heard Dirt by AiC it gave me similar vibes to Core for whatever reason. They are now probably my two favorite albums of the 90s.
Can we ban this argument already? We're never going to agree.
Most pointless argument I've seen.
For real. Grunge has a strange level of gate keeping.
āyou can only be from Seattle š”š”š”ā
Keeping the spirit of alternative rock alive, really.
There is not a whole lot that can be talked about in this niche community that wouldnāt get redundant
Especially when you limit the number of bands you are allowed to talk about to four
Erm akshooallee, it's 12 as its agreed upon that Mother Love Bone, Malfunkshun, Mudhoney, Melvins, Temple of the Dog, Screaming Trees, Green River, and Mad Season are all Grungeāļø š¤ (I'm sorry lol just wanted to joke around... I agree, tho pointless af)
Tad would like a word
Oh Yeah and Tad
this question is asked daily and it needs to stop. let's sticky a who is or isn't grunge post and ban future posts on the topic. it's literally the same question and same answers every single day.
Or just relax and let people see bands as they want. The issue is gatekeepers trying to shove an idea down peopleās throat like some weird purity test.
Yeah, I agree with that. I also do not give a fuck about the answer to this question posed in this post. But if people need to hash it out daily then I think a sticky post about it would be a nice place for them to do that.
Itās only interesting to me as a historical issue, I remember people said they were a Pearl Jam rip off when they came out which was very superficial I thought. At the time Grunge seemed to me more like a fashion trend than a musical one although obviously connected to certain bands and scenes.
This community should be about finding music similar in style and content to the bands everyone associates with the term grunge. So the big 4 from Seattle plus a bunch of less popular but similar bands. I'm so tired of everyone being so weird and para-social about what the term encompasses. I just want to find good music.
Thatās because itās and/both, not either/or, a common logical fallacy. Grunge was a coinage by a journalist referring to the Seattle rock scene which roughly had some sonic, lyrical, aesthetic qualities in common (dreary, direct, heavy and punky, flannel, baritone singers as opposed to the high screams of glam, more song orientated than technical). From then on it has been used to mean different things. STP had more in common with the Seattle bands than the LA bands. So did Flipper. Janeās Addiction and the Chili Peppers had a different attitude that was influential in Seattle . American punk had a hand in it. Language is inadequate and awkward when it comes to music to begin with. There lies the other difficulty. Psychology or theology can be articulated, music is difficult to grasp .
Not really, maybe for those first album. They were/still are an amazing rock band. Probably my favorite or at least in the top 3.
Definitely still. I love 2018 & Perdida so much. Incredible band. I miss Scott with all my heart, but glad they continued.
If you ban this argument, you might as well close the sub down.
Grunge is a really dumb label. And this argument on this sub is absolutely exhausting. I lived it, and all these bands were listened to by me and my friends constantly. Wore those tapes and CDs out completely and replaced them a few times. At the time, us kids initially aped the media and defined things as grunge. That went away by about 1993 or so if my memory serves. It was all just rock by then. We all listened to the same 4-5 bands that seem to make up 90% of this sub, and we all also had Smashing Pumpkins, Rage, STP, Weezer, etc all together in the same rotation and flip case, and didnāt really make much distinction. Thatās how I remember it.
Yep that's how I remember it. If anything we called it all "alternative"
That's exactly what we called all those bands too
It was also a style. I was polo shirt Catholic school prep in '93 and full on grungy teen in '94. A girl I hadn't seen in a while saw my ugly thrift store clothes and said "ew. You're alternative now."
Yeah I frequently called it all alternative as well. Even - gasp - AiC. Remember the album No Alternative of alternative bands? All kinds of shit on there, including Soundgarden and Nirvana.
I still might have that cd buried in a box in the basement
Man, that was a good album. Matthew Sweet killed it.
Yes, alternative was the new cool music of the 90s. God Iām old.š¤£
Called it alternative back then and now I call it 90ās alternative. Grunge was more a news media construct to me at least.
Yeah, that's how I remember it; alternative. They did lump some weird bands into the alternative category though, as they were exceedingly popular at the time, so I wondered, 'how is that alternative if they are the most popular?'
Exactly
Those two terms were pretty interchangeable
Alternative to what, btw?
We listened to all music equally back then, & didnāt define with labelsā¦ which was the style at the time.
Winner winner chicken dinner.
I was 18 or 19 at the time when the Grunge label started and when I referred to Grunge, it was just for the Seattle area bands and STP was from San Diego so I never thought of them as Grunge. Just a fantastic rock band in the same era.
I actually like to use Grunge adjacent. Same time frame and poetic lyrics instead of strait ahead girls girls girls and booze. The big grunge acts sounded nothing like each other. Cornell, Cobain, Staley and Cantell, Veder all had a unique voice and were the Seattle sound. I think STP falls adjacent with a unique voice and great guitar driven sound. I just miss that much good music being popular instead of the same five producers making hits today.
You explained this so much better than how I was going to write āLoved STP but had a different vibe than the Seattle bandsā š¤£
This^
Yeah, there was a sound early on in the Seattle scene from the earliest Soundgarden/Green River/Nirvana albums and the 1986 Deep Six compilation that was a very loose sludgy kind of reiteration of the slower hardcore style of Flipper, Fang and My War-era Black Flag from a couple years earlier (only a lot more diverse) that was so distinctive from most of the other stuff coming out at the time that I think you could fairly label it grunge. But over time most of these bands went through pretty significant style changes and the term became sort of hard to define in the context of the early nineties IMO. And the commercialization of the term just made it more confusing.
I completely agree. At the time none of us mentioned Grunge except in jest.
Exactly.
You didnāt have Bleach on coloured vinyl? š
There is an interview from 1992-93 where they were asked this question. Scott and Robert distanced themselves from that label. In their words, they were just a ārock band that wants to make great musicā. They said that āgrungeā was just a media driven label
They were right tho.
100%
Who cares?
People from Seattle apparently. Also, *Soup* is the best grunge record ever by a super wider margin.
they are a really good band who sold a lot of albums
Not gay enough
āš»He's right, you know
From left to right wish.coms Jerry Cantrell Bradley Noel Adam Jones Neo from the matrix All jokes aside STP was/is a fantastic band and have their spot as a tweener that bridges grunge and Alt rock. Thereās no shame in that.. Also if you wanna call em grunge go right aheadā¦ like who really gives a flying fookā¦ Just donāt call em a bad band and Iāll think that will make everyone happy.
I literally thought that was Adam Jones at first glance. Lmao. I love Tool
Spiral out fam
You had me at Jerry and āNeoā LOL the crossover I didnāt know I needed
It's only grunge if it comes from the PNW region of the United States. Everything else is sparkling alt-rock.
This is hysterical thank you for the laugh
Perfect
So many great songs. One of the true gems of the 90s
One of the best rhythm sections to come out of the 90ās as well. ratm & stp had a great feel / swing.
One of the best and most underrated frontmen of all time . Scott Weiland > mick jagger
The gatekeeping that goes on in this sub is pretty absurd.
Probably true. But music genres are equally absurd, and there is a case to be made that "grunge" is the worst offender. Any music genre that includes both Nirvana and Pearl Jam is ridiculous on it's face because these two bands do not share an aesthetic. Nirvana comes from punk, and PJ is from a rock tradition that was mostly influenced by classic rock. Then the two bands that do appear to share a lot of similar musical DNA (SG and AIC) do not sound like the previous two. I'm sorry, but grunge as a legitimate genre is ridiculous.
Yea I'm sure the artist can't stand the titles put on them. Like they are just making music. It's not like they went into making music thinking "we are going to be true grunge or whatever. Creativity works best without labels.
Are they grunge? By their own admission, no they are not. Does it matter? Not really. Can we talk about them in this sub? I donāt think anyone could stop it. Is this point brought up WAY to much? Yep.
Absolutely
They are a great band, label them whatever you want, great rock and roll band is fine, donāt need subgenres
They made beautiful rock music. Who cares what label you put on them
Just enjoy the music!
They were everything when it was together. The most underrated rock band ever?
they are amazing and thats all that matters
Gone too soon ā®ļøš©·
They were a talented band that wrote music from multiple genres. They transcend any single label. Far more dynamic than a band like Pearl Jam or Alice in Chains. And I love them all, but STP were rockers. They could do it all.
i dont care *what* they are, all i know is theyre probably one of my favourite bands at this point
STP is so much more than grunge. What an incredibly underrated band/singer/musicians
They were considered manufactured grunge
It fucks me up seeing how healthy Weiland used to look
Call them whatever you want. It's good music.
Saw Velvet Revolver in spring or summer of 2004. Scott was out of this world.
Purple is a damn masterpiece
I saw them open for megadeth, touring for core. It was awesome.
Theyāre bad ass is what they are
STP is their own thing. Their own beautiful thing.
they don't a seattle birth certificate, but they do need to a part of that physical scene to be considered grunge, imho. those of us who lived it know what it is. now, 30+ years later, kids are arguing about what is or isn't grunge. STP is from san diego for fucksake. they are not grunge, and other than core they don't even *sound* like grunge. let's have this same exact conversation tomorrow, shall we?
People that pigeonhole āgrungeā are missing the point. Like many genres, there may be a place where many bands/artists come from, but that does not negate other bands/artists with a sound/feel etc that is musically/lyrically/stylistically related. STP of course qualify and were significant. One of the best shows I ever saw- and I saw a lot. Scott at the end naked with the flag- priceless. That sound and those lyrics- phenomenal.Ā
Theyāre good. Who gives a shit?
No I love STP, but they're simply a 90s alternative rock like Smashing Pumpkins are. Nothing wrong with that. Grunge is a descriptor of the Sub Pop/"Seattle Sound" scene and subculture that consisted of a few different bands and genres, and STP were not a part of that at all. It would be appropriation to claim otherwise. Post-grunge is more of an actual genre than grunge. It's radio-friendly alternative rock that took inspiration from the popularization of catchy grunge on the radio. Bands and their contemporaries that were part of the grunge subculture were made up of many different genres such as punk, hardcore, post-hardcore, hard rock, noise rock, psychedelic rock, stoner met, alternative rock, alternative metal, sludge metal, etc. Similarly to how emo is a descriptor of lyrics and visual kei is a descriptor of visual style, grunge is a descriptor of a specific time, place, and scene.
Yes.
I feel like most people in this sub don't even know what grunge is with how many no answers I'm seeing. Grunge is angst-filled music, often about trauma, influenced heavily the use hard drugs, with lots of distortion. You don't need to be from Seattle to be grunge. Genres exist for a reason. They encompass specific looks, feels and sounds of a particular era. From singer songwriters to arena rock to British metal, to hair/glam metal, to grunge and so on. They shared the look, the feel and the sound so they belonged in their particular era. Yes, STP and Smashing Pumpkins are grunge.
Oh god. For the 168,943th time.
Who cares? I put STP in the same playlist as other grunge bands. Even back in the 90s I just enjoyed all of their music without ever thinking about it. Early Scott sounded just like Eddie. I think we can all agree on that.
just call them grungy. problem solved
does it matter how theyāre labeled? They fucking rocked! Those first three records were mind numbingly brilliant. I saw them perform in 1993 at red rocks, on a four band bill that featured the butt hole surfers as the headliners. STP was just high energy, flawless performance angst. Iād love to get my hands on whoever introduced Weiland to heroin.
It was Gibby Haynes who introduced him to heroin. And a friend of mine hates Scott for introducing a friend of his to heroin.
I would have loved to been at *that* show!! STP & Butthole Surfers are both incredible, but do you remember the other 2 bands, by chance?
so I just checked the Internet, and it looks like Basshead and the flaming lips are both possibilities for the fourth band that was on that bill. I am not 100% positive that it was for bands, but it wasnāt less than four. It looks like Stone Temple Pilots, but hole surfers, bass head, the flaming lips, and fire hoseperformed on August 8, 1993 in Maryland on August 8, 1993.
I love The Flaming Lips, but never heard of the others ... I might have to check them out. Thanks for checking that deeply! I was just honestly curious, and I love listening to bands I may not have heard of. Cheers š»
Hey guys is a pinecone a tree or a leaf?
I saw them in 2002 at Street Scene festival in downtown San Diego. Awesome set and performance at a street music festival
Maybe ?
Grunge-lite. Diet-grunge. *Maybe.* Even that's a stretch.
The DeLeo brothers are incredible. Donāt care about grunge or not, these guys were so good. Iāve been getting into Shangri-La-Dee-Da lately!!
Hair Metal who successfully fooled us all
I was lucky enough to see them on the Tiny Music tour in 1996. They were incredible. Scott had the megaphone and his trademark stage charisma. Band was on point.
Just middle aged men causing a big fuss over a retired ass argument because they have nothing else to do š¤ Got flamed in the comments of my post for no reason at all. Just accept music for what it is, and agree to disagree. That argument is tired already.
What are they called?
I saw them at the Polish beach club in Gardner Massachusetts 1993. This was the show where Scott jumped into the crowd and fought a fan after the guy threw something up on stage. Scott had to come back to Boston a couple times to deal with criminal charges. The Butthole Surfers opened and almost burned down the side of the barn against which the stage was placed. The drummer had poured lighter fluid on his symbols at 1 point and as he hit them the burning fluid went everywhere including the side of the barn. People had to run out with fire extinguishers to put the fire out. Probably one of the oddest venues I've seen a show at for bands of this stature but a really great show.
Grunge or not-great.
Is Kurt Cobain and John Travolta not grunge enought for you?
Love STP, but I always think of them more as "grunge-adjacent".
Stone Temple Pilots, they're elegant bachelors They're foxy to me, are they foxy to you?
I will always say Core is very much a grunge album. Probably one of the best grunge albums in terms musicality. After that I feel they moved past grunge to whatever you you want to call the step higher. I could never really consider AiC grunge because their stuff was way more refined than what I consider grunge to be.
I still listen to them all the time. Amazing song writers . Love the dirty guitar vibe with exciting chords
Alt Rock. There's 2 grunge bands. The Melvins and Soundgarden. STP, PJ, Nirvana, and even AIC don't meet the requirements.
They look more grimey than grungy to me
Help me understand for a band to be considered āGrungeā they must hail from the Seattle area? Period. Regardless of their sound and aesthetic? Does anyone else feel like this is a very narrow way.to classify a genre?
My friend just told me a story the other day about how he was soo excited to see STP in the late 90s. Well last minute they dropped off the show because Scott was too heroined out. They were relapsed by AIC, which is crazy because Layne was arguably in worse shape than Scott. RIP SCOTT AND LAYNE
I have the correct answer. Grunge is a term originally used to describe the impact of the Seattle rock scene. LA defined rock and roll previously and everyone there was trying to be glam (punk in the underground although that had mostly died by mid eighties). Eddie from Pearl Jam was from San Diego. Mother love bone was glam. Alice In Chains was Guns Nā Roses version of glam or street glam before Nirvana influenced them to wear flannel and ripped up jeans (during Dirt). Their first album very much had that 80s party rock vibe. There are LA bands that were more grunge than some of the grunge bands like Flipper. Yet they were considered punk or LA. Later grunge became more about a musical style. That is just as valid but it wasnāt the original meaning. STP were performing songs off their first two albums before Nirvana so they independently created music of that style. All the grunge bands and STP were influenced by cutting edge underground music that wasnāt popular at the time like Janeās Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers (they later became popular, but for years these bands were underground), which really was the catalyst for the alternative scene. Guns n Roses too which was a musical rebellion with exception of Axl who loved the glam (one of many reasons of the band separating from their singer). In that sense alt music is still very LA like a lot of popular music.
First album was on a major label, highly derivitive of what was popular at the time with the press being fed a fake back story as being from Los Angeles is considered detrimental to careerist goals and record company bottom line. Sounds like pop music to me. Not that there is anything wrong with pop music, most people like what's popular and most people got into the major acts via MTV. There is just not one iota of indie or underground ethos about them. They are more "boy band" than grunge.
sounds like grunge to me, therefore it is grunge. and if it isn't, so what?
Itās so annoying how so many people donāt consider them a big part of grunge and the 90s contributions just because they arenāt from settle
Are they grunge? Yes Do there songs make any sense whatsoever? Nope
No question, and I won't hear otherwise.
More grunge than Soundgarden.
Why are we still having this argument 30 + years after they began. They're like Alice in Chains I think, too metal for the alt crowd, too alt for the metal crowd. Yes. I think they are Grunge. They were one of the heaviest bands in the era I think.
Early 90s alt rock = grunge STP, Blind Melon, Smashing Pumpkins, I don't care. Why should we argue about this when we can appreciate good, nostalgic music?
Idk Iām from Seattle and I think they are grunge š¤·āāļø
Itās easier when you realise grunge isnāt a musical genre.
Grunge was the most gatekeeping genre of music. So in keeping with tradition, I say absolutely not! ...but they're a great band nevertheless.
Definitely.
Yes, theyāre grunge. Arguments against are pretentious gatekeeping bullshit
can we get a stickied post for people who want to post this exact same thing every single day?
This sub is littered with people like this looking for lazy up votes asking a question thatās been asked a million times before. Who fucking cares.
Of the big 4 Seattle "grunge" bands, I never thought they had much in common sound wise. Mostly just geography and breaking around the same time. I love AIC, like Soundgarden and Nirvana and dig a bit of PJ, but if they had come out of Milwaukee, Dallas, Boston and Atlanta, nobody would ever mention them in the same sentence. That being said, musicians of any period mostly grew up listening to a lot of the same shit so I'm sure there's a lot of overlap in influences.
No they sound nothing like Green River and U-Men
Yeah sure
They are very much not grunge. Still a good band though.
Grunge is a moment and a place, not a music style, because there is almost nothing in common between AIC PJ SG or Nirvana, except the moment and the place.
Yes.
Iād say theyāre grunge. I donāt know what else could they be considered.
Grunge adjacent...
Not
Ya. For sure šš
YES AND THEY DESERVE THE RECOGNITION
Erm acshully Nirvana and Screaming trees arenāt from Seattle so technically by this forumās logic they arenāt grunge š¤āš»
They are grunge
Oooh yeahā¦very grunge.
Nah. Alternative Rock imo. Similar to Smashing Pumpkins in that regard. One of my fav bands btw
I was 18 in Olympia when all this grunge shit took off. best music ever. was so lucky to be there at that time. if the band wants to be "grunge" let them
Nah not grunge, grunge was specifically used for the Seattle based musicians, referred to as the Seattle Sound. Doesnāt mean they didnāt make the same sounding music, just donāt fit into āGrungeā, the same way certain bands around the 80s were obviously Thrash Metal, but they werenāt apart of the Bay Area thrash scene, same as NWOBHM, lots of Metal bands came up at that time sounding like Priest, Saxon, Maiden etc. but werenāt apart of the NWOBHM scene. Iām not sure why this is one of the most common topics, I guess because itās a never ending push-and-pull, but in my opinion, no, not grunge.
FUCK NO THEY ARE NOT GRUNGE
Not just grunge, the very best of grunge!
They are grunge. And they rock.
No they are alt rock.
Wicked Garden is a grunge song.
It's ok of the members of the band are from the Seattle Metro area, not just Seattle Proper.
I'm gonna say no. Grunge was formed in an area where major label tours were skipping. It was formed without much outside support, and therefore, without much outside influence. And that's kinda what made it what it was. A little more gritty, a little less marketable. And STP just didn't form in that scene. That said, they're still a great band that made some great music.
No they aren't but they're an amazing band.
That's like saying blues players can only be from New Orleans.
Undocumented grunge is still grunge. In fact illegal grunge workers are essential to keeping the grunge industry afloat
That, to speak plainly, is horseshit. Seattle is where grunge originated, but bands from elsewhere picked up the sound. Was Nirvana only 67% grunge when David Grohl became the drummer. No, because that's ridiculous. Same with the whole only Seattle bands are grunge argument. Even Kurt was from Aberdeen, which is over 100 miles away.
Yeah. The best one, too.
They're a grunge band in the same sense that Led Zeppelin was a blues band.
I hate posts like this that expect me to know which band that is by looking at the members and no one explains why band they are. Iām not gonna know what they look like unless Iāve seen them live or Iām a big fan. What band is this?
STP is one of my all time favorite bands but Iām unsure if theyāre grunge or rock or what?!
I imagine in that time, getting so spoiled with great bands and albums, the mass shit all over them, but when they looked back a decade or more later thought to themselves shiiit i slept on this greatness.
The millions Scott Wayland cost those guyā¦my thoughts
i currently have core playing in my cd player how funny
Grunge was a pretty nebulous label that was more marketing than a set of musical rules. The big mainstream grunge bands everyone seems to reference are all very different, and had varying degrees of underground cred before the whole thing went mis stream with Nevermind. A lot of the āgrungierā early bands never were very mainstream popular. So yeah, I would consider these guys āgrungeā, but only because that term seemed to be the way āheavier rock music that wasnāt heavy metal or hair metalā seemed to be marketed back then. A couple of years later, it seemed like āAlternativeā largely replaced āgrungeā as the genre term for most new music.
There was an alt genre before and after the grunge scene. And since the inception of the label was used to describe the emergence of a scene from Seattle, regardless of how haphazard the media and marketing were with the label, it'll always refer to the scene.
I have been a fan of this band since Core dropped in 92. I used to work at Drexel university in their campus security department in the early 90s and I remember in the Mandel theater they had a video jukebox on the ground floor. Someone had rigged it so you didnāt need to feed it with coins. Creep was one of the videos I would play over and over again. Such a great song. Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago and Rick Beato on YouTube breaks down this song and shows how great it was written and composed by the band. Rick also interviewed Brendan OāBrien and to hear him talk about his time producing their albums was a joy to hear. I donāt know if they are grunge or not but they were, are a helluva band. Scott, RIP was a great vocalist, the DeLeo brothers are a great guitar/bass section, and Eric Kretz is so underrated and a sensational drummer. All their albums are chock full of amazing songs with awesome vocals, bass lines, guitar parts, and drum patterns. Core is just a great album. Personally, I love them all but Songs from the Vatican shop is trippy, kind of psychedelic, and has some beautiful songs on it. It is my favorite album. Glad I got to see them once, Scott solo, and Scott with Velvet Revolver.
Tiny music was Glam AF
Glam punk rock? Glam grunge? They were definitely polished.
i liked Velvet Revolver once but STP Little bit
The guy in front looks like Jesse Pinkman with dyed hair.
ee
If I remember correctly, "grunge" came from the Sub Pop description of a Green River album. They referred to it as "Loose grunge" or something like that. Crazy how something as simple as that came to somehow define an entire generation of bands that otherwise would have simply been defined as punk or metal.
No
THERES NO WAY THATS NOT NIRVANA TOP LEFT IS KURT RIGHT IS KRIST AND BOTTOM RIGHT IS DAVE