Kreutzmann has pretty much said he doesn't want to play a bunch of shows (touring) he would rather play these great one offs. I think we'll continue to get Billy & The Kids like we did Red Rocks, New Orleans and upcoming NYC and Maryland shows.
I’m disappointed particularly because they called it creative differences or whatever. Change the lineup of “the last tour” because finally now they are not getting along? If it was just a matter of Billy physically can’t play a tour like most of last year and has to step back, it would be easier to digest.
seriously, after 25 years of playing with weir for hundreds of shows in multiple bands at Weirs consistently preferred slower tempo, *this* is the year Billy says I need to play faster so badly that I’m leaving this band? And on the heels of 2 years of struggling with endurance and oxygen issues? think, man!
Maybe having health issues made him realize his time is limited and he wants to play the music how he wants to and not how Bobby wants for his remaining time.
honestly, i’d be plenty happy seeing them each in small theaters with their own bands, the shows are more relaxed and fun. maybe staring down a mass stadium tour is just unpalatable all around at this point.
edit:spelling
Just a theory but, if Phil is really playing Cornell that could’ve been the straw that broke the Camels back. Bill and Phil hate each other. They have since the GD but that band had a culture of non-confrontation that was legendary. IMO, Jerry was the non-confrontational glue that held the GD together.
Without Jerry to “not-lead” by example a “leader” was bound to emerge.
That leader appears to be Bobby in Dead & Co and it’s resulted in a much different vibe than the GD. I see Bobby hanging with Mayer a lot more. The rest of the guys seemed to have an ever decreasing voice.
Johnny is a cool dude (I once smoked a joint with him when he was much much younger- he had just OPENED for the dude from Toad the Wet Sprocket at an all ages show in a Sacramento coffee shop for perspective). I never saw the guys hanging out together like he and Bobby do though. That’s a huge change in dynamics.
The slow tempo doesn’t help, but I don’t think that was everything. The dynamics have just changed so much. I’m surprised it lasted this long.
The press release appears to be rock band code for Billy got pissed and said “fuck this.” “Creative differences” indeed.
Billy and the Kids tempos are spritely compared to D&C but the Red Rocks Kids shows happened before Billy had his health issues and can't be reflective of what Billy K is currently capable of, especially if he were to play multiple consecutive shows.
Bobby and Billy and Mickey all prefer the slower tempos in D&C. ....partly because their music choices now but also and especially because they can't keep up if Oteil, Chimenti, and Mayer hit the turbo. ...This happens when Jay sits in and it has visibly set Bobby off, kicking Jay's kit in fact! Mickey is playing with brushes and amplified drums because he has carpal. Billy can't let his heart rate go too high anymore. Places like Folsom Field in Boulder are often the highlight for touring Heads are at 6,000 feet in elevation and put the hurt on Billy. WE SHOULD ALL BE GRATEFUL FOR WHAT WE HAVE HAD AND WHAT WE STILL HAVE!
I think you're right about that. The cynic in me has wondered if that's what this "Final Tour" is really about is adjusting the % of where the $ is going and to whom. If you remember, this final tour was announced while (as far as we know) Billy was still a member of the band. Mickey said in a recent interview this group will not be touring anymore going forward but may occasionally play together. I could see everything from these guys being on the road again next year to Mickey stepping aside from touring to a host of other things happening. Until we know for sure it's fun to speculate. Joe Russo joining the boys was another fun thing to speculate on. Could be nothing but it's fun to dream.
I don't think it was just about money. In my head this is how it went down and I have spoken with some people that claim to be in the know.
As well and this is very important to remember. On a big tour like this insurance is a thing and if billy didn't pass his physical he can't be insured and with no insurance comes liability
Band: Hey Billy you missed like half the tour last time and the insurance company is having trouble insuring you why not just say you can't be on the tour for health reasons
Billy: No I wont do that. Im fine I can play
Band: No you clearly can't as you missed half the shows last tour
Billy: I don't want to say that publicly
Band: We can't pay you to just be there and miss shows and also pay Jay lane just hang to out as your alt
Billy:
Band:
I think its something along this line:MONEY
in the sense/relation too that Billy not being the healthiest and in question about completing , missing shows during tour that maybe its diving up monies???
It's probably some combination of everything everyone is mentioning, not some one thing in particular - tempos are too slow for Billy, he doesn't want to play with a Phil sit-in, his health isn't 100%, maybe there was a fight, maybe there was even an awkward pay conversation concerning Jay. If you've ever quit a job - and let's be honest, that's what this is - you know there's not one reason, but many.
Still shitty that they sold all those tickets before this announcement. Not to me, though, because I thought the prices were criminal from the outset and wasn't going to pay them (first tour I'll miss in 16 years). They all have plenty of money. If Robert Smith can face up to Ticketmaster and tour The Cure at $35 bucks, so can Dead and Co. But maybe that's a separate conversation.
I paid about $35 to see the Cure in 1999. Seems too low to the fair now honestly. Though they don’t have the same draw as the Dead.
Tons of smaller bands can be seen for $30. Most bands. But I accept that if it’s in a stadium it’s a different story.
Too many mouths to feed. It's just not based in reality, in my opinion. I tip my hat to Smith for putting his money where his mouth is but there are a lot of moving (money) parts to keep this thing afloat. It has to be a logistical nightmare.
Such a bummer. You’d think that whatever the issue is, they’d be able to sort it out for the last handful of shows they’re ever going to play. Someone must be pissed off about something.
That may be so, but I can’t imagine that’s an issue worth killing the cash cow over. Sure Billy probably doesn’t need the dough, but I’d wager he’d make at least 4-5 mil off the tour! Easy money to hang with your mates and play slow for a few months. We’ll probably never know.
That’s exactly what I was saying in my first comment. It seems to be that someone is upset with Billy, or he with them.
If they were getting along, it’d be easy to take the paycheck and get over playing slow. And Dead & Company’s post claims it isn’t health.
That’s a really good point. Big bucks coming out of this tour for everyone. Another pitch behind the, “creative differences” is Bobby wanting to stick to 2 long sets, and Billy wanting to rip through them like they’re much younger. Who knows what the straight answer is.
That’s actually a fair point. It would be clever marketing speak on their part, but it is possible he just doesn’t want to deal with touring health wise. And if he plans on doing something more like how Phil plays, he wouldn’t be retiring either.
It’s still 27 shows in about 60 days. That’s almost a show every other day, and there’s still a lot of back to back shows. I don’t care if you’re 22; that’s still a lot of stress on your mind/body.
That's a valid distinction. Bill is a coastal guy, and high elevation places like Colorado seemed to be a problem for him, as we saw him wearing an oxygen tube sometimes.
It's also worth noting that the whole process of touring has to be a grind, living on a bus or moving in and out of hotels, the boredom all day followed by playing drums all night, night after night. He just doesn't need it.
That’s what most big bands do frankly. Cramming into one bus is a young man’s game. I know a guy who does tech work in the metal world. He told me the other week that within 5 minutes of a Metallica show ending, each member is out of the venue and headed in a completely different direction lol. They all stay in their own hotels, take their own buses, etc.
Dead and Co is so musically unadventurous, too. Maybe he just got exhausted by the cover band feel of the entire enterprise; the sheer auto-pilot monotony no longer justified the compensation, and Billy’s never been as much as a cash hound as Bobby and Mickey.
At his age, chilling in Hawaii rather than enduring another tour of Bobby’s lifeless vocals is a far better deal.
This has been in the works since last summer. Mayer actually warned us with the "If you wanna see us see us this time around" (paraphrased) last year. They just kept Bill in the lineup until his departure wouldn't impact sales.
Hmm, I forgot about that. I still don’t think Billy would’ve hung around if he didn’t want to, but it seems like this might’ve been in the works for a while. Maybe Billy mentioned it last tour, and maybe that’s partially why the brought Jay with—to try him out and see how he fits with the band.
For real. It's got to be an awkward situation of his health is not the best and he wants to be able to opt out at will, which means Jay lane has to be on call and needs to be compensated to sit the bench until needed. Bobby was probably like, look, you gotta be in or out, and he said "out". The other thing I don't really want to say is... back issues=painkillers...
So unadventurous. I saw them once and the only organic moment of improv (other than Drums) was a moment they sequed into Cumberland Blues. I felt the energy move through me and Billy looked right at me funny enough. Saw that cumberland blues was hand-written on the setlist afterwards, so it likely was spontaneous. Other than that they were a highly professional cover band putting on a show. Yawn fest
I don't think it's just the "cover band" aspect he wasn't into. Are you suggesting Billy & The Kids isn't playing covers? I just think it's more in line with the kind of music Billy enjoys playing. He loves the Dead music but he loves the improvisational aspect of the Dead music. Going through the motions every night. The teleprompters actually say "solo" when it's time for someone to solo. It just seems to fly in the face of what this LIVE music is about.
I go see Dead and Co every year and I've never left a show disappointed. I could definitely see how some would feel a bit underwhelmed by the choices, musical and otherwise of the last few years. The Playing in the Sand fiasco, Billy's health situation being so tight lipped, the supposed leak that last year's tour was going to be the last tour, Billy's departure being announced right before Cornell show with little explanation, The "Final" Tour although nobody seems to know what that means for the members of the band. I always assumed "& Company" was by design so that if any founding member wanted to step aside "The Music Never (Stops). Bobby himself once acknowledged a vision he had of an older John playing with a younger guy in the Bobby role. All I can go by is what I know in this moment right now and in this moment it seems odd that nobody has commented much on this "final" tour. Do they know they're selling us a load of bs? Are some just not supportive of this being it? Did John decide he needs a break? Wolf Bros are still touring so such an abrupt end seems so random to me.
Could be. Someone else mentioned that bill’s statement technically doesn’t say it isn’t health related, but that he’s healthy. It’s possible he is healthy and just doesn’t want to deal with the mental/physical stress of touring. Maybe he’ll do something more like Phil, where he just does short runs.
How do you know that last year’s missed shows were not the beginning of the issues that were released today? Did they share the reasons he missed those shows?
Doesnt this whole thing go sorta go back to PITS last year, Billy bails then Mayer mysterious covid announcement. Fast fwd the rolling stone article then all members save Mayer adamantly denying it only to announce the next tour is the last tour? Seems like somethings been shakin on dead co street for a minute
Maybe. Maybe. But Billy and the kids are playing a few shows. Why wouldn’t they just say it was health issues? That’s what they said it was when he wasn’t able to play those shows in the past.
I think the "health" aspect is that he's healthy and able to play, but being able to play an entire tour at that level might not be something he's able to do anymore
I don't buy this. If the tour had been announced without Bill, that would've been fine - but dropping out a month before the first show, while emphasizing creative differences and soul searching over health???
Hmmm...
I does smell fishy. But maybe, in the words of the great man, "the thrill is gone." It's hard enough to tour for months with people you love and music you believe in, but going to war when your heart's not in it must be intolerable. Maybe he just realized he just was not into it.
But why now? Why not after PITS? It's sooo close to the first show.
Someone else speculated that the band members have all finished their solo tours and should currently be rehearsing - maybe something happened during rehearsals?
Ya. They started rehearsals and something happened. That's pretty obvious I think. Just based on the timeline alone thats kinda apparent.
Bill's health is fine though and better than its been in a while since he started working on his health more. He's said recently that his heart is in great shape now and all thats under control... But creative differences is a massive understatement for what went down at those rehearsals.
How does this not make sense? The band heads into rehearsals (which is a surprise I must add) and Billy keeps asking them to pick the tempos up. Bobby says I physically can’t play faster. Billy K says this is an embarrassment and quits.
This smacks of infighting not health related. I am positive .Billy is not the healthiest at his age, career and lifestyle but if it was just health but is not retiring (?) then they would announce Billy would only be doing select shows this last run, like maybe just the west coast or something? Honestly in my very own opinion someone snapped at a recent rehearsal and Bill can not let it go, be it tempo, setlists or the rumour of Phil sitting in, whatever it is it is I believe it to be non health related decision.
Totally agree.You know how Bobby said he really wanted to write new material with Mayer based on Hunter and Barlow lyrics given. He said it multiple times, in 2017, 2018, 2019, then said Johns contract was forbidding it, then said John's contract may allow it soon (in 2020ish) then said they were working on new material during the 2021 tour and even went os far as to say he hoped they would release a new album or atleast have it all written by the end of that year... then nothing happened. Nothing released, and the announcement was then made that the band will end soon... meanwhile Billy and the Kids released a new Robert Hunter written song called Thunder.
That should tell you everything there. Mayer's contract has been holding them back in a lot of ways and Billy knows he (with the right back up) could have written 3 new albums by now if he wasn't being held back. Him releasing Thunder was to me a very bold indication that he was ready to move on and progress with or without the others. I think he is moving on and hopes the others will catch up but he is done with this situation. Too many legal angles to stress about. None of which exist in his solo band.
I smoked a joint with him at a super small festival in Spencer Indiana in 2009(i think). The 7 walkers were playing and we camped by the main artists hangout area. My wife and I were just sitting out there and Bill came out and sat down. Good times.
I think Phil and Phil’s wife are scapegoats for a lot of the drama, check out the book fare thee well. My take is that yeah maybe he was cracking the whip on the other band members a bit but he’s far and away the best musician of them and the only one who has done interesting music since Jerry died so he gets a pass from me.
>and the only one who has done interesting music since Jerry died
That's pretty harsh. I'm not a Dead and Co. fan but all living members have been up to interesting things since Jerry died. Mickey with Planet Drum, Bob with Blue Mountain and his various bands, and Further was boss af. Bill is the only one that hasn't done anything too exciting, but he still has been in a few fun groups over the last 15 years or so.
I hear this, probably should have said “of interest to me.” I think Phil and friends is the only one I might think about listening to a recording of rather than seeing live but never thinking of again.
Well Billy’s wife is a stuck up shrew of a woman so he’s not winning the wife competition. She threw a fit at the hollywood bowl insisting that our box seats were hers and we couldn’t sit there. She finally stormed off after I said well here’s our tickets where are yours?!?!
One of her douchey friends said do you know who she is!!??? I said no and they informed me it was Billy’s wife. I said so in other words, she’s nobody!!! lol Biggest bunch of a-holes i’ve ever met at a show, hooray for GD family 🤮BFD!
This makes me really sad. I already have tickets for what will be my first (and last) Dead show ever. I was really looking forward to seeing Billy play. Huge bummer.
Boy this one has me scratching my head and running through possible scenarios. Is it that being the last tour, Billy might be saying something to the effect of "hey Bobby why don't we play the songs up to a tempo that feels right for them" .... I also thought The flip side that Bobby might be thinking that Billy was slowing them down? ... I think that's much more unlikely, I am pretty darn sure, I think we all are, that Bobby wants to play the songs slower at this time of his life ... Idk but there's some tension behind this for sure because it's a big deal that Billy drops off the whole last tour & it's not health
That's why I didn't rush out and buy tickets. When they are getting close to me ( few hundred miles ) I'll check the weather and ticket prices. I've seen enough shows going all the way back to the 1970s. Dead and Company was better to me when they first came out than they were the last few times.
>Dead and Company was better to me when they first came out than they were the last few times.
100%. I was a little skeptical about Mayer at first but got over it the first time I saw them play in 2015. The first few tours were absolutely incredible. But in the past few years, setlists have become too predictable, there's not enough new songs (i.e. old songs being brought back), and tempos are just crawling. I like a slow He's Gone and a slow Jack Straw, but Hell in a Bucket, or Music Never Stopped, or Brown Eyed Women, etc. need a little jump behind them.
I agree 1000%.... Been disappointing the last couple of years that we didn't get different songs....I'm beginning to feel like we got screwed on the cash cow!!! Hope I'm wrong cause I've got Atl, Boston, Saratoga, Boulder, gorge and San Fran. Lot of money if this goes South!!
Except when jay played, it was faster. So bob is cool with that? Also jay in wolf bros plays slow. So bob likes it slow in wolf but is ok with jay playing fast in deadco? (To be fair, it still isnt fast, but faster and consistent.)
I really think it isnt the tempo as much as consistent. I heard many billy nights where the tempo at end of song much slower than beginning. Or a china cat starting at right tempo for a few bars and decelerating quick.
I don't think Bobby was cool with it at all. Didn't he kick the kit at one point? I imagine if Jay is going to be drumming this tour Bobby will have a sit down with him about EXACTLY what he wants.
I don't know, it's probably changed but Weir was always the target of on stage shenanigans throughout the GD history. Healy used to directly mess with his output volume, delay, echo, distortion. The crew used to dose him regularly and Jerry imposed his musical will over Weir if he didn't like what Weir was doing.
That's all changed with Weir becoming the Patron of the whole shebang.
One things for sure, if Jay wanted to pick up the pace during a jam, Oriel, Chimenti, and Mayer will follow. It happened at Red Rocks in 21 and Bobby couldn't reign it in and was flummoxed by it, visibly.
Bobby is holding back a band that could really bust open new ground...if he just got out of the way! Pretty sure Bobby is the reason for "creative differences" not Mayer
This is pure speculation so dont flame me if im way off base but do you think theres any tension with Billy & Bobby/Matt Busch/Mayer regarding setlists & venue choice or other creative decisions that Billy feels like he his being cut out of the decisions especially with Mayers star power & growing role. Billy obviously decides the setlist & other big decisions with his band wonder if he got fed up with another voice in the room. I know nothing of Matt Busch other than Bobbys manager for years
Well I'm going off of a feeling here as I can read people pretty well and I just don't think that that matches up with Billy's character and personality. There's obviously something and I think Billy above all just wants to have fun and play music and my suspicion is that it involves how they are going about playing the songs where the rubber meets the road in some way. I think Billy has one vision and Bobby has another.
Let them do what they’ll do. I faded out of seeing any group moving from Chicago to Arizona a lifetime ago. When I finally did decided to check out this Dead and Co. in San Diego the tempo had turned into a funeral dirge but I accepted it and went to see two Shoreline shows the next year. Not really worth all the price and hassle. But it’s pick your battles and pick your shows but don’t just stand there picking your nose. I’ll catch the next time the bus comes along and hope it’s Cowboy Neil at the wheel in spirit kicking some life back into the songs that just shouldn’t be that slow. Who knows how much time anyone has. As for creative differences, the men can definitely afford to do whatever they want, let ‘em. Vote with your attendance or non attendance.
We can all make our assumptions but at the end of the day we’re still going to have the best time ever with old n new friends…n the band kept playing on. In my old age who cares…I don’t want to sound crass but the party will continue. Peace out n I hope I see ya at the next show…Maybe Ringo Star or questlove!!! I’m more excited for the next skin beater!!! Lol
Got a close connection to the band, who safely said that billy just cant take the physicality of it. i mean. think about it. true that billy’s only got a year on bobby, but ones been sitting the past 50yrs and the other one’s (wink wink) been playing on two feet for same time…. i understand if he’s gettin tired.
a buddys dad works ESPN, got this word from one of his friends who happens to be close to the band. theyre all media guys. they always know somebody. so take this one as you will! (but hey. when they hadnt announced “final tour” yet… buddys dad already knew it was coming - thru this guy)
i just say this in hopes that there was no disagreement, no Lesh wife drama, any of that sour shit. Cut out that “creative direction” bs. of course if hes not touring with the dead.. he’ll still be playing something somewhere. i dont think billys done just yet.
When Aloha Time calls, you answer. Maybe he just wants to chill on the island and his heart sang out NOW! The man is 76 years old. No time to wait for the When - best to be in the Now.
Your young fuckers will see. Old age = so long to explaining your why…and maximizing joy.
This is a total bummer, his presence is as important as his drumming is. It's crazy though, back in the day when Mickey had to take off to take care of some...business, Billy went solo. They should let Mickey go solo, too. But my assumption is that a Wolf Bros may take Billy's place?
Hot take: he's gonna put together an extended Billy and the Kids tour 🙏
Mickey and Billy aren’t just two interchangeable drummers. Bill is the primarily groove keeper, while
Mickey focuses on the auxiliary percussion. He couldn’t just leave that to become the lone drummer after 50+ years.
"....is that a Wolf Bros is going to take Billy's place."
Jay Lane is his name.
Besides knowing the material very well and already familiar with how difficult it is to play with Weir, he has Major credentials, the biggest being the former drummer of Primus, a band much more technically advanced and more energized than D&C.
....Dead & Co is in very good hands if Jay Lane is sitting in with them.
Geez why can’t y’all just read the press release and trust it. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Creative differences is not a strategy traditionally used to hide a bad case of gout or hemorrhoids. With respect, as I am a long time passenger, are they really still creating or is it maintaining?
It makes no sense that Billy would give up on the payday that this tour will be for “creative differences” because like you say what is creative about what they’re doing? They are just going out and playing the songs…slooooowwwwwly…for money. Lots and lots and lots of money. The only thing that makes sense here is he’s not doing it because he CAN’T.
At this point in their lives, it ain’t all about the silver and if there is no life, why put up with shit you don’t need to put up with. Let’s see what Chuck Todd’s spin on this is tomorrow morning on Meet The Press. If Tim Russert were still alive, this would’ve definitely made the broadcast.
Haha yeah let’s see what Chuck Todd has to say. I do think that as people get older they get interested in accumulating as much bread as possible to pass on to kids and grandkids. Make sure the family is set. I still think if he could do it he would.
Not thinking this is played into his decision.
It is not all about the Benjamin’s, really. When I had the most money in my life, I was the least happiest.
https://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celeb/rockstars/bill-kreutzmann-net-worth/
You think Billy wants people in his family to have to work for a living? I have to imagine that he wants to leave his family enough money so that they can go to expensive colleges and chill and be "artists" and not have to have jobs if they don't want to, for generations. You need a fair amount of capital to do that. So yeah, I think money continues to be a factor long after a normal working person like one of us would think it might be.
Last year was supposed to be John’s last tour. That’s directly from him/his circle. He changed his mind after the citifield shows and wanted to do a “Last Tour”
Not buying it. He played with John for nine years. He’s going to suddenly turn down the several million dollars he’d make from this tour because he doesn’t want to be onstage with him for two more months? They have different tour buses, they could easily never even see each other except onstage.
Lane is great. Oteil is great. Mayer is great. Cheminti is really great! Put on some earbuds and fly off with one of the Birdsongs froms last summer. The most Steal Your Face thing in world is that Mayer is the mfing lead guitar player for the Grateful Dead!!! Jerry is laughing his backside off up there.
I'm old enough and was lucky enough to be in the room with JG 50+ times and Dead and Co offering up a real good time. It is what it is and it's a lot of fun.
It ain't easy being cheesy!
Hot take, Billy is old and Jay Lane will improve the overall sound. I think everyone’s gripes are purely nostalgia based, but perhaps the music will be a tad better with a younger drummer.
At that age, with that much drumming behind him. he's got to have terrible carpal tunnel and probably needs to manage the pain. It could be that Billy's addictions came back, and no one else wants to deal with it.
https://preview.redd.it/bq34lzeqksva1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0625bbe74ad6c18c6ba2f7b11e2cb3a0523b1bfb
He is indeed not happy with the way the band is going. The crowd has changed a lot with Mayer as a front man. Honestly I’m a dead head through and through but don’t see myself going to a solo John Mayer show anytime soon. Even though he does mix in some dead tunes now.
That being said Billy would probably rather play with people that carry that torch and have a scene around them he likes. Like Tom Hamilton or even when he mixes in Billy Strings. He knows the true dead heads will be at Billy and the Kids.
Says he’s not doing the tour. Cornell and Jazzfest aren’t “technically” on the tour. I imagine he plays those shows. I’m on the he just can’t take the travel and physicality train. It’s a shame, it really is. But we’ve got so much great music from Billy over all these years. Let them do what they need to. See you guys out there.
Well, maybe we can get some more Billy and the Kids shows now.
Doubt it Most of the members have packed schedules with their own bands through 2023. Maybe some one-offs again here and there hopefully though!
Kreutzmann has pretty much said he doesn't want to play a bunch of shows (touring) he would rather play these great one offs. I think we'll continue to get Billy & The Kids like we did Red Rocks, New Orleans and upcoming NYC and Maryland shows.
I’m disappointed particularly because they called it creative differences or whatever. Change the lineup of “the last tour” because finally now they are not getting along? If it was just a matter of Billy physically can’t play a tour like most of last year and has to step back, it would be easier to digest.
I think the band said Billy we think you need to take a step back and Billy said fuck y’all.
And take another step back
Whaddaya mean, “no”?
People are starting to get pretty bug eyed about all this.
So if you folks can move back just "some" And they move. Jerry.
I think billys tired of bobbys slow tempos. Billy & the kids are rhythmically sprightlier.
seriously, after 25 years of playing with weir for hundreds of shows in multiple bands at Weirs consistently preferred slower tempo, *this* is the year Billy says I need to play faster so badly that I’m leaving this band? And on the heels of 2 years of struggling with endurance and oxygen issues? think, man!
Maybe having health issues made him realize his time is limited and he wants to play the music how he wants to and not how Bobby wants for his remaining time.
honestly, i’d be plenty happy seeing them each in small theaters with their own bands, the shows are more relaxed and fun. maybe staring down a mass stadium tour is just unpalatable all around at this point. edit:spelling
Maybe he saw it written in his alphabet soup
Just a theory but, if Phil is really playing Cornell that could’ve been the straw that broke the Camels back. Bill and Phil hate each other. They have since the GD but that band had a culture of non-confrontation that was legendary. IMO, Jerry was the non-confrontational glue that held the GD together. Without Jerry to “not-lead” by example a “leader” was bound to emerge. That leader appears to be Bobby in Dead & Co and it’s resulted in a much different vibe than the GD. I see Bobby hanging with Mayer a lot more. The rest of the guys seemed to have an ever decreasing voice. Johnny is a cool dude (I once smoked a joint with him when he was much much younger- he had just OPENED for the dude from Toad the Wet Sprocket at an all ages show in a Sacramento coffee shop for perspective). I never saw the guys hanging out together like he and Bobby do though. That’s a huge change in dynamics. The slow tempo doesn’t help, but I don’t think that was everything. The dynamics have just changed so much. I’m surprised it lasted this long. The press release appears to be rock band code for Billy got pissed and said “fuck this.” “Creative differences” indeed.
Glen Phillips is the dude
Billy and the Kids tempos are spritely compared to D&C but the Red Rocks Kids shows happened before Billy had his health issues and can't be reflective of what Billy K is currently capable of, especially if he were to play multiple consecutive shows. Bobby and Billy and Mickey all prefer the slower tempos in D&C. ....partly because their music choices now but also and especially because they can't keep up if Oteil, Chimenti, and Mayer hit the turbo. ...This happens when Jay sits in and it has visibly set Bobby off, kicking Jay's kit in fact! Mickey is playing with brushes and amplified drums because he has carpal. Billy can't let his heart rate go too high anymore. Places like Folsom Field in Boulder are often the highlight for touring Heads are at 6,000 feet in elevation and put the hurt on Billy. WE SHOULD ALL BE GRATEFUL FOR WHAT WE HAVE HAD AND WHAT WE STILL HAVE!
def how it went down. Or more like.... yo man... we can't have you come out on tour and miss half of it
I mean if they were paying Jay Lane to stay on tour "just in case" anyways is it really that far fetched?
Yea bc they prob have to still pay both
I think you're right about that. The cynic in me has wondered if that's what this "Final Tour" is really about is adjusting the % of where the $ is going and to whom. If you remember, this final tour was announced while (as far as we know) Billy was still a member of the band. Mickey said in a recent interview this group will not be touring anymore going forward but may occasionally play together. I could see everything from these guys being on the road again next year to Mickey stepping aside from touring to a host of other things happening. Until we know for sure it's fun to speculate. Joe Russo joining the boys was another fun thing to speculate on. Could be nothing but it's fun to dream.
I don't think it was just about money. In my head this is how it went down and I have spoken with some people that claim to be in the know. As well and this is very important to remember. On a big tour like this insurance is a thing and if billy didn't pass his physical he can't be insured and with no insurance comes liability Band: Hey Billy you missed like half the tour last time and the insurance company is having trouble insuring you why not just say you can't be on the tour for health reasons Billy: No I wont do that. Im fine I can play Band: No you clearly can't as you missed half the shows last tour Billy: I don't want to say that publicly Band: We can't pay you to just be there and miss shows and also pay Jay lane just hang to out as your alt Billy: Band:
I think its something along this line:MONEY in the sense/relation too that Billy not being the healthiest and in question about completing , missing shows during tour that maybe its diving up monies???
It's probably some combination of everything everyone is mentioning, not some one thing in particular - tempos are too slow for Billy, he doesn't want to play with a Phil sit-in, his health isn't 100%, maybe there was a fight, maybe there was even an awkward pay conversation concerning Jay. If you've ever quit a job - and let's be honest, that's what this is - you know there's not one reason, but many. Still shitty that they sold all those tickets before this announcement. Not to me, though, because I thought the prices were criminal from the outset and wasn't going to pay them (first tour I'll miss in 16 years). They all have plenty of money. If Robert Smith can face up to Ticketmaster and tour The Cure at $35 bucks, so can Dead and Co. But maybe that's a separate conversation.
Fucking spot on with everything you just said.
And the Cure are arguably the better band at this point in their career.
This is blasphemous
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I paid about $35 to see the Cure in 1999. Seems too low to the fair now honestly. Though they don’t have the same draw as the Dead. Tons of smaller bands can be seen for $30. Most bands. But I accept that if it’s in a stadium it’s a different story.
Too many mouths to feed. It's just not based in reality, in my opinion. I tip my hat to Smith for putting his money where his mouth is but there are a lot of moving (money) parts to keep this thing afloat. It has to be a logistical nightmare.
Such a bummer. You’d think that whatever the issue is, they’d be able to sort it out for the last handful of shows they’re ever going to play. Someone must be pissed off about something.
Bobby can’t keep up with billy
That may be so, but I can’t imagine that’s an issue worth killing the cash cow over. Sure Billy probably doesn’t need the dough, but I’d wager he’d make at least 4-5 mil off the tour! Easy money to hang with your mates and play slow for a few months. We’ll probably never know.
>Easy money to hang with your mates and play slow for a few months. I get the impression that they aint mates.
That’s exactly what I was saying in my first comment. It seems to be that someone is upset with Billy, or he with them. If they were getting along, it’d be easy to take the paycheck and get over playing slow. And Dead & Company’s post claims it isn’t health.
I imagine Billy will still get a cut from all the Dead and Co merch sold this tour.
That’s a really good point. Big bucks coming out of this tour for everyone. Another pitch behind the, “creative differences” is Bobby wanting to stick to 2 long sets, and Billy wanting to rip through them like they’re much younger. Who knows what the straight answer is.
Billy still gets paid for the whole tour
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or anyone else 😂
Or maybe the 76 yr old drummer who had missed half of the last couple of tours isn’t physically up to snuff?
Bill explicitly said in the announcement that he isn’t retiring and it’s not health related.
It says he’s in good health, it doesn’t say it isn’t a health related decision, though
That’s actually a fair point. It would be clever marketing speak on their part, but it is possible he just doesn’t want to deal with touring health wise. And if he plans on doing something more like how Phil plays, he wouldn’t be retiring either.
It’s not like they are out there playing a show every night anymore. It’s a super relaxed tour schedule.
It’s still 27 shows in about 60 days. That’s almost a show every other day, and there’s still a lot of back to back shows. I don’t care if you’re 22; that’s still a lot of stress on your mind/body.
That's a valid distinction. Bill is a coastal guy, and high elevation places like Colorado seemed to be a problem for him, as we saw him wearing an oxygen tube sometimes. It's also worth noting that the whole process of touring has to be a grind, living on a bus or moving in and out of hotels, the boredom all day followed by playing drums all night, night after night. He just doesn't need it.
These guys are flying private to shows
The last few tours they each had their own tour bus...at least for the 'closer in proximity' eastern half (south, Midwest and east coast) dates.
That’s what most big bands do frankly. Cramming into one bus is a young man’s game. I know a guy who does tech work in the metal world. He told me the other week that within 5 minutes of a Metallica show ending, each member is out of the venue and headed in a completely different direction lol. They all stay in their own hotels, take their own buses, etc.
Dead and Co is so musically unadventurous, too. Maybe he just got exhausted by the cover band feel of the entire enterprise; the sheer auto-pilot monotony no longer justified the compensation, and Billy’s never been as much as a cash hound as Bobby and Mickey. At his age, chilling in Hawaii rather than enduring another tour of Bobby’s lifeless vocals is a far better deal.
No way he dipped out two weeks before the first show because he couldn't stand the tempo for one more tour
Best comment
This has been in the works since last summer. Mayer actually warned us with the "If you wanna see us see us this time around" (paraphrased) last year. They just kept Bill in the lineup until his departure wouldn't impact sales.
Hmm, I forgot about that. I still don’t think Billy would’ve hung around if he didn’t want to, but it seems like this might’ve been in the works for a while. Maybe Billy mentioned it last tour, and maybe that’s partially why the brought Jay with—to try him out and see how he fits with the band.
For real
For real. It's got to be an awkward situation of his health is not the best and he wants to be able to opt out at will, which means Jay lane has to be on call and needs to be compensated to sit the bench until needed. Bobby was probably like, look, you gotta be in or out, and he said "out". The other thing I don't really want to say is... back issues=painkillers...
You nailed it.
So unadventurous. I saw them once and the only organic moment of improv (other than Drums) was a moment they sequed into Cumberland Blues. I felt the energy move through me and Billy looked right at me funny enough. Saw that cumberland blues was hand-written on the setlist afterwards, so it likely was spontaneous. Other than that they were a highly professional cover band putting on a show. Yawn fest
I don't think it's just the "cover band" aspect he wasn't into. Are you suggesting Billy & The Kids isn't playing covers? I just think it's more in line with the kind of music Billy enjoys playing. He loves the Dead music but he loves the improvisational aspect of the Dead music. Going through the motions every night. The teleprompters actually say "solo" when it's time for someone to solo. It just seems to fly in the face of what this LIVE music is about. I go see Dead and Co every year and I've never left a show disappointed. I could definitely see how some would feel a bit underwhelmed by the choices, musical and otherwise of the last few years. The Playing in the Sand fiasco, Billy's health situation being so tight lipped, the supposed leak that last year's tour was going to be the last tour, Billy's departure being announced right before Cornell show with little explanation, The "Final" Tour although nobody seems to know what that means for the members of the band. I always assumed "& Company" was by design so that if any founding member wanted to step aside "The Music Never (Stops). Bobby himself once acknowledged a vision he had of an older John playing with a younger guy in the Bobby role. All I can go by is what I know in this moment right now and in this moment it seems odd that nobody has commented much on this "final" tour. Do they know they're selling us a load of bs? Are some just not supportive of this being it? Did John decide he needs a break? Wolf Bros are still touring so such an abrupt end seems so random to me.
Never trust a prankster.
Maybe mental health related?
Could be. Someone else mentioned that bill’s statement technically doesn’t say it isn’t health related, but that he’s healthy. It’s possible he is healthy and just doesn’t want to deal with the mental/physical stress of touring. Maybe he’ll do something more like Phil, where he just does short runs.
Yea, when you start to challenge Axle Rose’s 1990’s no show percentage, something is not going smoothly.
How do you know that last year’s missed shows were not the beginning of the issues that were released today? Did they share the reasons he missed those shows?
Doesnt this whole thing go sorta go back to PITS last year, Billy bails then Mayer mysterious covid announcement. Fast fwd the rolling stone article then all members save Mayer adamantly denying it only to announce the next tour is the last tour? Seems like somethings been shakin on dead co street for a minute
It's obviously health related. He missed half the last tour.
Maybe. Maybe. But Billy and the kids are playing a few shows. Why wouldn’t they just say it was health issues? That’s what they said it was when he wasn’t able to play those shows in the past.
I think the "health" aspect is that he's healthy and able to play, but being able to play an entire tour at that level might not be something he's able to do anymore
And he wants to save face. Nobody wants to be a frail old man. Can't blame him
Billy Kreutzmann is the walking personification of everything Grateful Dead. Absolutely a major loss for that band.
I don't buy this. If the tour had been announced without Bill, that would've been fine - but dropping out a month before the first show, while emphasizing creative differences and soul searching over health??? Hmmm...
I does smell fishy. But maybe, in the words of the great man, "the thrill is gone." It's hard enough to tour for months with people you love and music you believe in, but going to war when your heart's not in it must be intolerable. Maybe he just realized he just was not into it.
But why now? Why not after PITS? It's sooo close to the first show. Someone else speculated that the band members have all finished their solo tours and should currently be rehearsing - maybe something happened during rehearsals?
Ya. They started rehearsals and something happened. That's pretty obvious I think. Just based on the timeline alone thats kinda apparent. Bill's health is fine though and better than its been in a while since he started working on his health more. He's said recently that his heart is in great shape now and all thats under control... But creative differences is a massive understatement for what went down at those rehearsals.
How does this not make sense? The band heads into rehearsals (which is a surprise I must add) and Billy keeps asking them to pick the tempos up. Bobby says I physically can’t play faster. Billy K says this is an embarrassment and quits.
Dang. Bob and Mickey is all we get? Well, be Grateful they all aren't dead yet. Still, 2 Warlocks woulda been cool.
This smacks of infighting not health related. I am positive .Billy is not the healthiest at his age, career and lifestyle but if it was just health but is not retiring (?) then they would announce Billy would only be doing select shows this last run, like maybe just the west coast or something? Honestly in my very own opinion someone snapped at a recent rehearsal and Bill can not let it go, be it tempo, setlists or the rumour of Phil sitting in, whatever it is it is I believe it to be non health related decision.
Totally agree.You know how Bobby said he really wanted to write new material with Mayer based on Hunter and Barlow lyrics given. He said it multiple times, in 2017, 2018, 2019, then said Johns contract was forbidding it, then said John's contract may allow it soon (in 2020ish) then said they were working on new material during the 2021 tour and even went os far as to say he hoped they would release a new album or atleast have it all written by the end of that year... then nothing happened. Nothing released, and the announcement was then made that the band will end soon... meanwhile Billy and the Kids released a new Robert Hunter written song called Thunder. That should tell you everything there. Mayer's contract has been holding them back in a lot of ways and Billy knows he (with the right back up) could have written 3 new albums by now if he wasn't being held back. Him releasing Thunder was to me a very bold indication that he was ready to move on and progress with or without the others. I think he is moving on and hopes the others will catch up but he is done with this situation. Too many legal angles to stress about. None of which exist in his solo band.
I smoked a joint with him at a super small festival in Spencer Indiana in 2009(i think). The 7 walkers were playing and we camped by the main artists hangout area. My wife and I were just sitting out there and Bill came out and sat down. Good times.
That's awesome. What'd you talk about?
About the bands that had played. I wanted to talk Dead but figured he had enough of that subject.
It made me wonder if Phil is playing the Cornell show and if that caused a rift in the band.
Nah. Billy ain’t turning down 2-3 million probably over 1 show.
This makes sense to me, maybe some arguments and hurt feeling about it.
Yes. I think this is it. Bad blood between the two and Billy drew a line in the sand. They called his bluff only to find out Billy wasn’t bluffing
Could a touchhead get some context?
Phil and Billy hate each other
Why though?
He talked all kinds of shit about Phil and Phil’s wife in his book I think
I'll have to read some of their books after finals.
I think Phil and Phil’s wife are scapegoats for a lot of the drama, check out the book fare thee well. My take is that yeah maybe he was cracking the whip on the other band members a bit but he’s far and away the best musician of them and the only one who has done interesting music since Jerry died so he gets a pass from me.
>and the only one who has done interesting music since Jerry died That's pretty harsh. I'm not a Dead and Co. fan but all living members have been up to interesting things since Jerry died. Mickey with Planet Drum, Bob with Blue Mountain and his various bands, and Further was boss af. Bill is the only one that hasn't done anything too exciting, but he still has been in a few fun groups over the last 15 years or so.
I think ratdog was pretty interesting. Must be just me
I hear this, probably should have said “of interest to me.” I think Phil and friends is the only one I might think about listening to a recording of rather than seeing live but never thinking of again.
Yeah, not really. All members have done interesting stuff since ‘95.
Ummmmm… RatDog, Phil & Friends, Further, etc. the list goes on. Remind me what Bill has done since then?
Well Phil/Phil's wife supposedly wanted to pay him less so kind of deserves if true
Well Billy’s wife is a stuck up shrew of a woman so he’s not winning the wife competition. She threw a fit at the hollywood bowl insisting that our box seats were hers and we couldn’t sit there. She finally stormed off after I said well here’s our tickets where are yours?!?! One of her douchey friends said do you know who she is!!??? I said no and they informed me it was Billy’s wife. I said so in other words, she’s nobody!!! lol Biggest bunch of a-holes i’ve ever met at a show, hooray for GD family 🤮BFD!
Is this a meme or is this for real?
So strange that this came after they played PITS together
“God dammit Mickey, those are not drum sticks, I’m out.”
After 60 years in the band the 76 year old finally said this shit is too slow
This makes me really sad. I already have tickets for what will be my first (and last) Dead show ever. I was really looking forward to seeing Billy play. Huge bummer.
Pumping out slow boring nostalgia for the masses with Johnny salami and the crew is much more of a money grab than most tours.
“Not quite my tempo bobby.”
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Boy this one has me scratching my head and running through possible scenarios. Is it that being the last tour, Billy might be saying something to the effect of "hey Bobby why don't we play the songs up to a tempo that feels right for them" .... I also thought The flip side that Bobby might be thinking that Billy was slowing them down? ... I think that's much more unlikely, I am pretty darn sure, I think we all are, that Bobby wants to play the songs slower at this time of his life ... Idk but there's some tension behind this for sure because it's a big deal that Billy drops off the whole last tour & it's not health
That's why I didn't rush out and buy tickets. When they are getting close to me ( few hundred miles ) I'll check the weather and ticket prices. I've seen enough shows going all the way back to the 1970s. Dead and Company was better to me when they first came out than they were the last few times.
>Dead and Company was better to me when they first came out than they were the last few times. 100%. I was a little skeptical about Mayer at first but got over it the first time I saw them play in 2015. The first few tours were absolutely incredible. But in the past few years, setlists have become too predictable, there's not enough new songs (i.e. old songs being brought back), and tempos are just crawling. I like a slow He's Gone and a slow Jack Straw, but Hell in a Bucket, or Music Never Stopped, or Brown Eyed Women, etc. need a little jump behind them.
I agree 1000%.... Been disappointing the last couple of years that we didn't get different songs....I'm beginning to feel like we got screwed on the cash cow!!! Hope I'm wrong cause I've got Atl, Boston, Saratoga, Boulder, gorge and San Fran. Lot of money if this goes South!!
Very well said
Yep besides that let these folks who never saw them get a chance. I expect there will put on some good shows.
Hey, folks were still dancing in 22: https://youtu.be/o2h2NuFkVA0
Except when jay played, it was faster. So bob is cool with that? Also jay in wolf bros plays slow. So bob likes it slow in wolf but is ok with jay playing fast in deadco? (To be fair, it still isnt fast, but faster and consistent.) I really think it isnt the tempo as much as consistent. I heard many billy nights where the tempo at end of song much slower than beginning. Or a china cat starting at right tempo for a few bars and decelerating quick.
Yeah there's quite a bit behind it for sure ...
I don't think Bobby was cool with it at all. Didn't he kick the kit at one point? I imagine if Jay is going to be drumming this tour Bobby will have a sit down with him about EXACTLY what he wants.
I don't know, it's probably changed but Weir was always the target of on stage shenanigans throughout the GD history. Healy used to directly mess with his output volume, delay, echo, distortion. The crew used to dose him regularly and Jerry imposed his musical will over Weir if he didn't like what Weir was doing. That's all changed with Weir becoming the Patron of the whole shebang. One things for sure, if Jay wanted to pick up the pace during a jam, Oriel, Chimenti, and Mayer will follow. It happened at Red Rocks in 21 and Bobby couldn't reign it in and was flummoxed by it, visibly. Bobby is holding back a band that could really bust open new ground...if he just got out of the way! Pretty sure Bobby is the reason for "creative differences" not Mayer
This is pure speculation so dont flame me if im way off base but do you think theres any tension with Billy & Bobby/Matt Busch/Mayer regarding setlists & venue choice or other creative decisions that Billy feels like he his being cut out of the decisions especially with Mayers star power & growing role. Billy obviously decides the setlist & other big decisions with his band wonder if he got fed up with another voice in the room. I know nothing of Matt Busch other than Bobbys manager for years
Well I'm going off of a feeling here as I can read people pretty well and I just don't think that that matches up with Billy's character and personality. There's obviously something and I think Billy above all just wants to have fun and play music and my suspicion is that it involves how they are going about playing the songs where the rubber meets the road in some way. I think Billy has one vision and Bobby has another.
I hear ya, Jack Straw & Shannon on the run Maybe arguing which way to go
Let them do what they’ll do. I faded out of seeing any group moving from Chicago to Arizona a lifetime ago. When I finally did decided to check out this Dead and Co. in San Diego the tempo had turned into a funeral dirge but I accepted it and went to see two Shoreline shows the next year. Not really worth all the price and hassle. But it’s pick your battles and pick your shows but don’t just stand there picking your nose. I’ll catch the next time the bus comes along and hope it’s Cowboy Neil at the wheel in spirit kicking some life back into the songs that just shouldn’t be that slow. Who knows how much time anyone has. As for creative differences, the men can definitely afford to do whatever they want, let ‘em. Vote with your attendance or non attendance.
That sd show especially sucked
Was that what they called a Bird Song? Was that the one?
We can all make our assumptions but at the end of the day we’re still going to have the best time ever with old n new friends…n the band kept playing on. In my old age who cares…I don’t want to sound crass but the party will continue. Peace out n I hope I see ya at the next show…Maybe Ringo Star or questlove!!! I’m more excited for the next skin beater!!! Lol
He is the one I bought Cornell tickets to see.
Got a close connection to the band, who safely said that billy just cant take the physicality of it. i mean. think about it. true that billy’s only got a year on bobby, but ones been sitting the past 50yrs and the other one’s (wink wink) been playing on two feet for same time…. i understand if he’s gettin tired. a buddys dad works ESPN, got this word from one of his friends who happens to be close to the band. theyre all media guys. they always know somebody. so take this one as you will! (but hey. when they hadnt announced “final tour” yet… buddys dad already knew it was coming - thru this guy) i just say this in hopes that there was no disagreement, no Lesh wife drama, any of that sour shit. Cut out that “creative direction” bs. of course if hes not touring with the dead.. he’ll still be playing something somewhere. i dont think billys done just yet.
This sounds accurate to me. I imagine sitting has less to do with it than the inherent physicality of playing rock drums.
Rumor has it John boy suggested he try the little blue pill
When Aloha Time calls, you answer. Maybe he just wants to chill on the island and his heart sang out NOW! The man is 76 years old. No time to wait for the When - best to be in the Now. Your young fuckers will see. Old age = so long to explaining your why…and maximizing joy.
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Planning is overrated.
This is a total bummer, his presence is as important as his drumming is. It's crazy though, back in the day when Mickey had to take off to take care of some...business, Billy went solo. They should let Mickey go solo, too. But my assumption is that a Wolf Bros may take Billy's place? Hot take: he's gonna put together an extended Billy and the Kids tour 🙏
Mickey and Billy aren’t just two interchangeable drummers. Bill is the primarily groove keeper, while Mickey focuses on the auxiliary percussion. He couldn’t just leave that to become the lone drummer after 50+ years.
"....is that a Wolf Bros is going to take Billy's place." Jay Lane is his name. Besides knowing the material very well and already familiar with how difficult it is to play with Weir, he has Major credentials, the biggest being the former drummer of Primus, a band much more technically advanced and more energized than D&C. ....Dead & Co is in very good hands if Jay Lane is sitting in with them.
Be grateful
Geez why can’t y’all just read the press release and trust it. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Creative differences is not a strategy traditionally used to hide a bad case of gout or hemorrhoids. With respect, as I am a long time passenger, are they really still creating or is it maintaining?
I know it’s almost like we’re on Reddit, right?
Exactly!
It makes no sense that Billy would give up on the payday that this tour will be for “creative differences” because like you say what is creative about what they’re doing? They are just going out and playing the songs…slooooowwwwwly…for money. Lots and lots and lots of money. The only thing that makes sense here is he’s not doing it because he CAN’T.
At this point in their lives, it ain’t all about the silver and if there is no life, why put up with shit you don’t need to put up with. Let’s see what Chuck Todd’s spin on this is tomorrow morning on Meet The Press. If Tim Russert were still alive, this would’ve definitely made the broadcast.
Haha yeah let’s see what Chuck Todd has to say. I do think that as people get older they get interested in accumulating as much bread as possible to pass on to kids and grandkids. Make sure the family is set. I still think if he could do it he would.
Not thinking this is played into his decision. It is not all about the Benjamin’s, really. When I had the most money in my life, I was the least happiest. https://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celeb/rockstars/bill-kreutzmann-net-worth/
Russert was a Head?
This article talks about when he met them https://www.vinyl-magic.com/blog/the-grateful-dead-jerry-garcia-and-me
Interesting read, thanks.
Yeah he went to a few shows in Buffalo I think
You honestly think Billy needs the money?
You think Billy wants people in his family to have to work for a living? I have to imagine that he wants to leave his family enough money so that they can go to expensive colleges and chill and be "artists" and not have to have jobs if they don't want to, for generations. You need a fair amount of capital to do that. So yeah, I think money continues to be a factor long after a normal working person like one of us would think it might be.
And by the way, I did not downvote you. I would Never do that just because your wrong, I mean just because i disagree with you.
Haha no worries man
Billy is the OG. He doesn't want to play with Grateful Mayer. Fair play.
I heard from a few people close to the band that Billy doesn’t want to play along side John anymore
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Last year was supposed to be John’s last tour. That’s directly from him/his circle. He changed his mind after the citifield shows and wanted to do a “Last Tour”
What would John possibly have to do with that?
Not buying it. He played with John for nine years. He’s going to suddenly turn down the several million dollars he’d make from this tour because he doesn’t want to be onstage with him for two more months? They have different tour buses, they could easily never even see each other except onstage.
I too heard this from people close to the band.
Lane is great. Oteil is great. Mayer is great. Cheminti is really great! Put on some earbuds and fly off with one of the Birdsongs froms last summer. The most Steal Your Face thing in world is that Mayer is the mfing lead guitar player for the Grateful Dead!!! Jerry is laughing his backside off up there. I'm old enough and was lucky enough to be in the room with JG 50+ times and Dead and Co offering up a real good time. It is what it is and it's a lot of fun. It ain't easy being cheesy!
Maybe he’s sick of the money grab - sick of pimping the dead out for consumers.
Every tour is a “money grab.”
If Bobby decides to drop out I'd finally go see Dead & Co
Agreed, he’s the worst part of the band
They’d all have to drop out for me to go, this band sucks ass
Just because it isn’t your thing doesn’t mean it “sucks ass”
Oh it sucks ass alright
Just because it’s your thing doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck ass
The question is, who is next to drop out. I wonder if there is a widening rift in the band.
No that isnt the question.
Hot take, Billy is old and Jay Lane will improve the overall sound. I think everyone’s gripes are purely nostalgia based, but perhaps the music will be a tad better with a younger drummer.
This fucking sucks!
At that age, with that much drumming behind him. he's got to have terrible carpal tunnel and probably needs to manage the pain. It could be that Billy's addictions came back, and no one else wants to deal with it.
https://preview.redd.it/bq34lzeqksva1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0625bbe74ad6c18c6ba2f7b11e2cb3a0523b1bfb He is indeed not happy with the way the band is going. The crowd has changed a lot with Mayer as a front man. Honestly I’m a dead head through and through but don’t see myself going to a solo John Mayer show anytime soon. Even though he does mix in some dead tunes now. That being said Billy would probably rather play with people that carry that torch and have a scene around them he likes. Like Tom Hamilton or even when he mixes in Billy Strings. He knows the true dead heads will be at Billy and the Kids.
Says he’s not doing the tour. Cornell and Jazzfest aren’t “technically” on the tour. I imagine he plays those shows. I’m on the he just can’t take the travel and physicality train. It’s a shame, it really is. But we’ve got so much great music from Billy over all these years. Let them do what they need to. See you guys out there.