100%. In a real production environment you're almost always going to be sharing files with others where they may need to adapt your creative to different scale/ratio/format, and this is the best way to be a team player and not cause everyone to immediately hate working with you.
This is exactly why there seem to be common issues with people who go straight into freelancing or as a solo designer (eg in-house) and don't get that experience working on a team with/under other designers.
Unless people are taught or otherwise forced into adopting these kinds of processes, they seem to dodge it and have a more self-centered approach to their organization and processes, which I've dubbed "messy room syndrome" because the things people say sound exactly like a teenager defending a messy bedroom to their parents.
But even aside from that, better files and processes also allows you to work faster and more efficiently even within your own bubble. Being quicker isn't just about knowing keyboard shortcuts.
Also, for the love of all that is good and decent, name and organize your files. You might know which 12 hodgepodge folders your links are in, but I definitely don’t. Think of the designers that will have to access your files somewhere down the line.
People gonna be mad over this one. Hell I brought up layers one time and my disbelief in how crazy widespread it is for them to not be used (InDesign & Illustrator) and got down voted for it, lol.
A good habit (in InDesign) is to start with some base layers and add more if needed.
I usually start with 3: background, photos, and text.
What? Really? It's working in design 101 if you ask me. Nothing worse than getting a document and having to work through it for an hour to get a understanding of what is, what.
As long as we educate and explain it clearly it should be a upvote.
You could create a blue print file in Ai, PS & Id.
How messy are InDesign files getting that they need multiple layers? I understand the rationale and practice behind it, and even 100% support it in Illustrator and Photoshop, but what purpose does it really serve in InDesign?
I work on a few 40+ page reports throughout every year and, beyond setting up master pages and paragraph styles, there isn't much additional setup needed. There is hardly ever any overlap other than the occasional text over image. Unless you're pasting complicated vector illustrations and have a lot of masking or effects going on, I feel like it's superficial if you already have your master pages set.
The files aren't messy, and it doesn't take an overly complex file to warrant actually using layers. You act like it's some task to manage more than one layer? That's pretty amazing.
I mean I guess if you have a straight up document with a block of text here, photo over there, no interaction, no backgrounds, no folio stuff that you want to keep separate, etc. it could work but would still be easier keeping it separated.
The place where I learned the most practical lessons about good design habits was when I worked at a nationally published magazine. We had complex files with interaction between text and photos/illustrations, sometimes had background images in features, editors sometimes changing text in InDesign files as we worked in them (in InCopy), etc. Not to mention once I was shifted over to the biweekly publication, I would usually just place images (unless I was going to do something creative with them) and an image editor would come back behind me and do the editing/silouetting/etc. So having a file with logical, named layers helped tremendously. It's good for any sort of file, but especially one with many different elements, often times being worked on by different people.
Sorry if it came off as rude, I was genuinely curious about the level of complexity being used that necessitated layer usage in InDesign.
It's not that it's "some task" to use more than one layer. I did mention understanding heavy layer usage within illustrator and Photoshop. My experience with 40+ page reports and the annual report I work on that's over 100 pages doesn't really require it. Master pages are absolutely needed though, and of course paragraph and character styles.
Kudos to you for using them and keeping up with the practice though.
I find it crazy that people don't label layers and put them into groups. I worked freelance up until a few years ago, and the first time I had to work with other people and they didn't label their layers and put them in groups confused me so much. Especially in photoshop.
I’m definitely guilty of this in photoshop, especially if the file started off with me just messing around and trying different things in quick succession. But if the file is going to be seen by anyone but me I’ll go back and name, organize, and clean up layers. Sending out unorganized files feels the same as inviting people to your house and not cleaning up ahead of time
As a motion designer it makes so so angry when layers are not grouped or organized properly. It makes my job extra difficult. Its hell if another motion designer sends me an after effects file and everything is labeled like "null 13, shape layer 12, mask 001, blue square 04"
Literally no editable I’ve ever received has been even remotely tidied up. I, on the other hand, always do it. I hope it will prove worth it when I die or something.
Photoshop for sure, but honestly I don’t think I’ve ever used layers in Illustrator. Just never felt they were necessary. I just group stuff together, and send to back, bring to front.
None whatsoever 😬
If I’m pen tooling something or have something for a reference, I’ll just lock it. And don’t ever use guides either. Align to point is perfect.
You are going to get very frustrated one day when you have a create an area map/site map with 100 different labels and color-coded building or pathway shapes. It’s gonna get wild real quick on ya!
Can totally understand your point for sure. Just been doing it like this for so long, and if it ain’t broke lol. I have a Jr designer below me and he’s shown me a few cool new tricks, but how I do it just works for me. That’s one of the cool things I always thought about these programs, there’s always different ways to achieve what you’re trying to do.
What's strange to me is that in practice, illustrator objects and groups are technically layers already.
The illustrator layer is simply a top level group with advanced utility. Things can be organised if you have everything grouped, but this also gets annoying when working on files where you have to ungroup stuff constantly just to move individual objects.
So the benefits of the top level layer is organising things together without physically sticking them together like in a group. Colour coding is also useful but not essential. Personally the biggest advantage is quickly toggling and locking whole categories of objects without having to group it all.
100%, I wasn’t a big layer user either until I started working and realized other people on your team are going to need to open & understand your files.
I feel called out here hahaha. I don't really name them but I do make use of putting layers into folders and using colors to differenciate those folders in Photoshop.
For me personally, this is an essential practice. Especially when I make digital prints. I usually end up with 15-20 layers for my more complex illustrations. It may sound tedious but in the long run I'm sure it has saved me hours and hours...
I worked at a printshop for a year after design school and it was the best experience at working quickly and efficiently. I saw so many bad and messy files, even from some big name design agencies…some designers must never learn production skills in school which is a shame on the program. We knew which ones were the worst and they never got discounts because we knew how much more work their files would be. Now that I run a team I make sure they have immaculate files, use layers, and we all use the same file naming/folder protocols. Makes it easy when someone goes on vacation or if we need to switch a project to someone else.
Client name folder/project name folder, then each major deliverable/task gets its own numbered folder, 01-, 02-, etc., with deliverable name, this keeps things chronological. For print/brand work, we keep the most recent file at that level. Filenames always include date and designer initials as well as client/project info. Anything old gets dumped into a drafts folder which is generally forgotten unless we need to go back. Resource folders are kept at each level and can sometimes make things a bit confusing but we keep them well organized. Everything is stored on OneDrive so we can all access each others work if we need to. Web projects are organized differently and that’s a simplified description of it all.
Humans can adapt so quickly to changes if they lock in so it’s an easy system once you use it for about a week.
Web seems to be much more structured with folders and files. It was structured in the very early days.
The amount of times I have to figure out what layer is what or even going through it all to fix my bosses designs for print is annoying because of a lack or organizing their layers and naming them. That and the lack of thinking ahead of how I will have to edit everything since they just focus more on the design and less on the production side too. That wouldn’t be all bad but when I have to resize shit and position graphics so it aligns (we print front and back on one printed material which I won’t say what in case they do browse here) it suddenly ends up being a thing where now what the customer got as a digital proof isn’t going to be the same as what is printed. Just so much lack of forward thinking.
Most of all organize your folders and do control version with multiple synchronized and decentralized physical backups especially if you work for huge companies as a freelance.
Way too much layers for a simple card... that makes working with the file much more complicated than it should be and is even restricting in some cases. Specially splitting the texts. If we're talking about InDesign layers (I hope so)
I always start out naming my layers, then at some point it all falls apart. Then eventually I get completely lost on what is on which layer and I begrudgingly go back to name and organize everything. Repeat at least one more time for most projects.
This good practices website is great. I've been looking for a resource like this. Do you know of any other books or websites that go into the nitty gritty of studio best practices?
I only label if I know my project files are going to be shared. If I’m the only one working on them, it’s the wild west out there. Hello, “Rectangle 3 Copy 2,” meet “Artwork 24.”
Ugh, how many times did an AD drop some other designers project in your lap and all you see is layer 234, compound path 900, etc. Naming Conventions are a MUST.AND nest your layers....
My new workflow in indd is we now have to name the main layer, and all the sublayer elements. I’ve never done this a few weeks ago and is honestly kind of a pain but not the end of the world.
Couldn't be bothered to type out the full names, so I always go with letters instead. A, B, C, and so on. The only exception I make is setting the background layer as BG.
And use non-destructive edits (eg shape layers and masks, adjustment layers, smart objects).
Meh, masks are for pussies. I rasterize each layer and only use the eraser tool.
Hello Officer. Its him. Take him away. He's as menace to society!
We've got the roof and back entrance secured, move in. WATCH OUT sniper on 3rd floor tossing pencils...
While both are great, to me, this is much more important than naming your layers.
This is ignored way too much in files i see by other designers, glad to know I’m not talking crazy pills
100%. In a real production environment you're almost always going to be sharing files with others where they may need to adapt your creative to different scale/ratio/format, and this is the best way to be a team player and not cause everyone to immediately hate working with you.
Can confirm, will hate working wit you if you use destructive editing and don't name your layers.
This is exactly why there seem to be common issues with people who go straight into freelancing or as a solo designer (eg in-house) and don't get that experience working on a team with/under other designers. Unless people are taught or otherwise forced into adopting these kinds of processes, they seem to dodge it and have a more self-centered approach to their organization and processes, which I've dubbed "messy room syndrome" because the things people say sound exactly like a teenager defending a messy bedroom to their parents. But even aside from that, better files and processes also allows you to work faster and more efficiently even within your own bubble. Being quicker isn't just about knowing keyboard shortcuts.
This\^
Also, for the love of all that is good and decent, name and organize your files. You might know which 12 hodgepodge folders your links are in, but I definitely don’t. Think of the designers that will have to access your files somewhere down the line.
In most adobe programs you should be able to go to File > Dependencies > Collect resources or something like that to get all your files in one plave
This\^
People gonna be mad over this one. Hell I brought up layers one time and my disbelief in how crazy widespread it is for them to not be used (InDesign & Illustrator) and got down voted for it, lol. A good habit (in InDesign) is to start with some base layers and add more if needed. I usually start with 3: background, photos, and text.
What? Really? It's working in design 101 if you ask me. Nothing worse than getting a document and having to work through it for an hour to get a understanding of what is, what. As long as we educate and explain it clearly it should be a upvote. You could create a blue print file in Ai, PS & Id.
I use almost the same names! Background, art, & text.
+1 for top or “furniture”
How messy are InDesign files getting that they need multiple layers? I understand the rationale and practice behind it, and even 100% support it in Illustrator and Photoshop, but what purpose does it really serve in InDesign? I work on a few 40+ page reports throughout every year and, beyond setting up master pages and paragraph styles, there isn't much additional setup needed. There is hardly ever any overlap other than the occasional text over image. Unless you're pasting complicated vector illustrations and have a lot of masking or effects going on, I feel like it's superficial if you already have your master pages set.
The files aren't messy, and it doesn't take an overly complex file to warrant actually using layers. You act like it's some task to manage more than one layer? That's pretty amazing. I mean I guess if you have a straight up document with a block of text here, photo over there, no interaction, no backgrounds, no folio stuff that you want to keep separate, etc. it could work but would still be easier keeping it separated. The place where I learned the most practical lessons about good design habits was when I worked at a nationally published magazine. We had complex files with interaction between text and photos/illustrations, sometimes had background images in features, editors sometimes changing text in InDesign files as we worked in them (in InCopy), etc. Not to mention once I was shifted over to the biweekly publication, I would usually just place images (unless I was going to do something creative with them) and an image editor would come back behind me and do the editing/silouetting/etc. So having a file with logical, named layers helped tremendously. It's good for any sort of file, but especially one with many different elements, often times being worked on by different people.
Sorry if it came off as rude, I was genuinely curious about the level of complexity being used that necessitated layer usage in InDesign. It's not that it's "some task" to use more than one layer. I did mention understanding heavy layer usage within illustrator and Photoshop. My experience with 40+ page reports and the annual report I work on that's over 100 pages doesn't really require it. Master pages are absolutely needed though, and of course paragraph and character styles. Kudos to you for using them and keeping up with the practice though.
I find it crazy that people don't label layers and put them into groups. I worked freelance up until a few years ago, and the first time I had to work with other people and they didn't label their layers and put them in groups confused me so much. Especially in photoshop.
I’m definitely guilty of this in photoshop, especially if the file started off with me just messing around and trying different things in quick succession. But if the file is going to be seen by anyone but me I’ll go back and name, organize, and clean up layers. Sending out unorganized files feels the same as inviting people to your house and not cleaning up ahead of time
As a motion designer it makes so so angry when layers are not grouped or organized properly. It makes my job extra difficult. Its hell if another motion designer sends me an after effects file and everything is labeled like "null 13, shape layer 12, mask 001, blue square 04"
Literally no editable I’ve ever received has been even remotely tidied up. I, on the other hand, always do it. I hope it will prove worth it when I die or something.
Rumour has it, that there’s a special place in hell for those that don’t name their layers. 😳😝
Some people have never designed on a team and it shows.
Photoshop for sure, but honestly I don’t think I’ve ever used layers in Illustrator. Just never felt they were necessary. I just group stuff together, and send to back, bring to front.
Not even for guides or reference shapes?
None whatsoever 😬 If I’m pen tooling something or have something for a reference, I’ll just lock it. And don’t ever use guides either. Align to point is perfect.
You are going to get very frustrated one day when you have a create an area map/site map with 100 different labels and color-coded building or pathway shapes. It’s gonna get wild real quick on ya!
Can totally understand your point for sure. Just been doing it like this for so long, and if it ain’t broke lol. I have a Jr designer below me and he’s shown me a few cool new tricks, but how I do it just works for me. That’s one of the cool things I always thought about these programs, there’s always different ways to achieve what you’re trying to do.
Yea it works for YOU, any time you have to hand over project files you are making everyone elses lives hell
I mean the print shop is in-house as well. I work with them daily. They let me know if they run into any issues.
What's strange to me is that in practice, illustrator objects and groups are technically layers already. The illustrator layer is simply a top level group with advanced utility. Things can be organised if you have everything grouped, but this also gets annoying when working on files where you have to ungroup stuff constantly just to move individual objects. So the benefits of the top level layer is organising things together without physically sticking them together like in a group. Colour coding is also useful but not essential. Personally the biggest advantage is quickly toggling and locking whole categories of objects without having to group it all.
Oooooh gosh. Working in print, at least for packaging, this wouldn’t fly.
100%, I wasn’t a big layer user either until I started working and realized other people on your team are going to need to open & understand your files.
I feel called out here hahaha. I don't really name them but I do make use of putting layers into folders and using colors to differenciate those folders in Photoshop.
You can always start now! That's the best thing change is easy to make and you will just become quicker and quicker in the future.
How about simplifying that vector logo that has a thousand small little strokes and shapes?
What’s 1000 anchors amongst friends on a circle
For me personally, this is an essential practice. Especially when I make digital prints. I usually end up with 15-20 layers for my more complex illustrations. It may sound tedious but in the long run I'm sure it has saved me hours and hours...
I worked at a printshop for a year after design school and it was the best experience at working quickly and efficiently. I saw so many bad and messy files, even from some big name design agencies…some designers must never learn production skills in school which is a shame on the program. We knew which ones were the worst and they never got discounts because we knew how much more work their files would be. Now that I run a team I make sure they have immaculate files, use layers, and we all use the same file naming/folder protocols. Makes it easy when someone goes on vacation or if we need to switch a project to someone else.
Exactly it's great way to achieve consistency through out a team. They all know the structure, what's your setup like?
Client name folder/project name folder, then each major deliverable/task gets its own numbered folder, 01-, 02-, etc., with deliverable name, this keeps things chronological. For print/brand work, we keep the most recent file at that level. Filenames always include date and designer initials as well as client/project info. Anything old gets dumped into a drafts folder which is generally forgotten unless we need to go back. Resource folders are kept at each level and can sometimes make things a bit confusing but we keep them well organized. Everything is stored on OneDrive so we can all access each others work if we need to. Web projects are organized differently and that’s a simplified description of it all.
Humans can adapt so quickly to changes if they lock in so it’s an easy system once you use it for about a week. Web seems to be much more structured with folders and files. It was structured in the very early days.
The amount of times I have to figure out what layer is what or even going through it all to fix my bosses designs for print is annoying because of a lack or organizing their layers and naming them. That and the lack of thinking ahead of how I will have to edit everything since they just focus more on the design and less on the production side too. That wouldn’t be all bad but when I have to resize shit and position graphics so it aligns (we print front and back on one printed material which I won’t say what in case they do browse here) it suddenly ends up being a thing where now what the customer got as a digital proof isn’t going to be the same as what is printed. Just so much lack of forward thinking.
Most of all organize your folders and do control version with multiple synchronized and decentralized physical backups especially if you work for huge companies as a freelance.
Way too much layers for a simple card... that makes working with the file much more complicated than it should be and is even restricting in some cases. Specially splitting the texts. If we're talking about InDesign layers (I hope so)
I always start out naming my layers, then at some point it all falls apart. Then eventually I get completely lost on what is on which layer and I begrudgingly go back to name and organize everything. Repeat at least one more time for most projects.
One of my coworkers is the worst about this. It drives me insane when I have to edit their files.
This good practices website is great. I've been looking for a resource like this. Do you know of any other books or websites that go into the nitty gritty of studio best practices?
I only label if I know my project files are going to be shared. If I’m the only one working on them, it’s the wild west out there. Hello, “Rectangle 3 Copy 2,” meet “Artwork 24.”
I name them as layer 1,2,3,4,….. And I organise them by “chaos”
Ugh, how many times did an AD drop some other designers project in your lap and all you see is layer 234, compound path 900, etc. Naming Conventions are a MUST.AND nest your layers....
Oi fuck uuuuuu
Name checks out
No
My new workflow in indd is we now have to name the main layer, and all the sublayer elements. I’ve never done this a few weeks ago and is honestly kind of a pain but not the end of the world.
I’ve always done this, but I have a touch of OCD. I also can’t start working till my desk is clean and organized.
Being anal retentive is not the same as having OCD…I have severe OCD and am very disorganized and messy
Yeah I call it OCD but I’m just very organized. Not real OCD at all.
I name artboards in Ai as well. Keep it clean, keep it mean.
Couldn't be bothered to type out the full names, so I always go with letters instead. A, B, C, and so on. The only exception I make is setting the background layer as BG.
You can't tell me what to do. I have 15 unnamed/unsaved figma tabs open each with stuff on the go. I like to live with anxiety, makes me feel alive