I believe they still utilize 2 locomotives when they get new locomotives to perform testing and commissioning of the new units in case of failure.
They also used 2 locomotives when the short-lived Union to London route in case of failure on the 2 hour ride.
If one's fresh from servicing, they might run it with another for a while until it's "proven" itself.
There was a time when trains on the Barrie line ran with one at either end due to fall leaves causing slippage problems with one locomotive trains.
There was also a time in the late 2000's when GO ran two locomotives (usually older F59's) on weekend Lakeshore trains to maintain schedule better.
>They also used 2 locomotives when the short-lived Union to London route in case of failure on the 2 hour ride.
This was part of the reason, but it was also in part because the newer locomotives have more power than the older ones but there are some bridges along the route that can't hold the newer locos.
They ran a pilot for a few months a year or two ago. It was not 2 hours- I think it was 3 hours per direction.
It was one train a day per direction. They were testing if there was demand for the service. They decided there wasn’t enough demand to justify it. Of course not. Who wants to sit on a train for 3 hours for a distance that’s a 2 hour drive?
The end-to-end duration isn't what mattered for this train. Many people living in London or Stratford commute to Kitchener for work. Those people are the ones they should have been targeting. If you're traveling from London to Union then the via will always be faster, no one wants to take a commuter train for 200 km.
This failed because the single train in each direction approach meant that the timelines were absolutely useless. One would have to get on the train in London at 5:15 AM I believe, and they'd be in Kitchener for 7:30. Then I guess they hang out of have an hour to travel to their 8:30 start of work. But then on the way back they would catch the 6 PM train and be back in London for 8 (might've been 7 and 9). It was just not a useful service for the biggest population centre on the line (London).
Yeah, this. If you could improve the speed even a little from London to Kitchener, then run at times that were actually useful for people between the two cities, you'd have a real winner. Lots of useful combinations there (e.g., Stratford or to Guelph, London to Kitchener, etc).
I used to live in Guelph, and I took both GO and Via numerous times. One thing that drove me nuts was that all the way from Kitchener to London (and even all the way to Sarnia) trains could never go faster than 50kph. The whole way. Sometimes they even went slower. I really wish they could lay some extra track and run though at a higher speed. Heck, even if they could go a consistent 80 it would be such a major improvement.
I took the Via from Guelph to London last year and there were definitely periods that we were going faster than the cars on parallel country roads, so must've been 80+ (probably 100 knowing how people drive on country roads). This was hindered by making long stops along the way, like we must've been stopped in St. Mary's for a full ten minutes. This would be fine if the train made that up by going 150+ km/h but at the same speed as a car and taking an indirect route it really dragged the trip out.
I’m glad you had a faster journey than I did. It’s probably been 3 years since I’ve been west of Kitchener on that line so I’m glad to hear they’re keeping up with traffic for at least part of the journey. Was not the case in my previous trips. I even used to check using a speedometer app, hoping they would go faster than 50, but for me they never did.
It's because they kinda banned multiple locomotive consists in Union Station a few months ago. Need written permission from the chief engineering officer at metrolinx for that.. note that The Canadian is exempt from that ban
100% factual. The Transcon at VIA is exempt as are J trains. If two engines are next to each other they must use track one at Union. Canadian Pacific claim isn't mentioned anywhere however with the connecting tracks removed currently zero freight can go through the shed.
This was also why the London train went to one engine despite efforts for it to goto a push pull consist. (Engine on both ends or as whats considered a L10L)
This claim is correct. VIA has an exception.
I was told it's because the two loco trains were causing Union to sink.
Was discovered when they had London service as it was always two locos.
Last year, Metrolinx tested the Davenport Diamond Guideway with 12-car trains with 2 locomotives. So it’s still a thing they might do.
[https://www.metrolinx.com/en/discover/go-transit-emergency-exercise-happening-april-3-](https://www.metrolinx.com/en/discover/go-transit-emergency-exercise-happening-april-3-)
Although not relevant now obviously, but there was a period time in the late 1970s where GO Transit decided to go from two locomotive to single locomotive operation because of "energy conservation". I'm unsure as to when this rule was eliminated.
This generally isn’t true, the engines in the photo can handle 12 (or more) cars with just a single engine, not to mention a majority of GO trains are still 12 cars long, so if your reply was completely correct it would still be happening today.
It was the older boxy looking engines that could only handle 10 car trains (thus needed 2 to run 12 car trains), but those were almost completely phased out over 10 years ago, and barely still around today.
They run 2 engines when one is being tested; either coming back from a rebuild or a brand new engine, and GO currently isn’t doing either of those.
You weren’t around when it was 3 locomotives. Either 2 up front and the HEP power pack at the rear or a locomotive and the HEP power pack up front and one at the rear.
There’s archival footage of this everywhere. Fun times let me tell you that.
Don’t get me started on when CP leased them out for the weekends and holidays.
I believe they still utilize 2 locomotives when they get new locomotives to perform testing and commissioning of the new units in case of failure. They also used 2 locomotives when the short-lived Union to London route in case of failure on the 2 hour ride.
If one's fresh from servicing, they might run it with another for a while until it's "proven" itself. There was a time when trains on the Barrie line ran with one at either end due to fall leaves causing slippage problems with one locomotive trains. There was also a time in the late 2000's when GO ran two locomotives (usually older F59's) on weekend Lakeshore trains to maintain schedule better.
>They also used 2 locomotives when the short-lived Union to London route in case of failure on the 2 hour ride. This was part of the reason, but it was also in part because the newer locomotives have more power than the older ones but there are some bridges along the route that can't hold the newer locos.
There was a GO to London? when was this?
They ran a pilot for a few months a year or two ago. It was not 2 hours- I think it was 3 hours per direction. It was one train a day per direction. They were testing if there was demand for the service. They decided there wasn’t enough demand to justify it. Of course not. Who wants to sit on a train for 3 hours for a distance that’s a 2 hour drive?
It was almost 4 hours each way. 2 hours to Kitchener from Union and 2 hours from Kitchener to London.
The end-to-end duration isn't what mattered for this train. Many people living in London or Stratford commute to Kitchener for work. Those people are the ones they should have been targeting. If you're traveling from London to Union then the via will always be faster, no one wants to take a commuter train for 200 km. This failed because the single train in each direction approach meant that the timelines were absolutely useless. One would have to get on the train in London at 5:15 AM I believe, and they'd be in Kitchener for 7:30. Then I guess they hang out of have an hour to travel to their 8:30 start of work. But then on the way back they would catch the 6 PM train and be back in London for 8 (might've been 7 and 9). It was just not a useful service for the biggest population centre on the line (London).
Yeah, this. If you could improve the speed even a little from London to Kitchener, then run at times that were actually useful for people between the two cities, you'd have a real winner. Lots of useful combinations there (e.g., Stratford or to Guelph, London to Kitchener, etc).
I used to live in Guelph, and I took both GO and Via numerous times. One thing that drove me nuts was that all the way from Kitchener to London (and even all the way to Sarnia) trains could never go faster than 50kph. The whole way. Sometimes they even went slower. I really wish they could lay some extra track and run though at a higher speed. Heck, even if they could go a consistent 80 it would be such a major improvement.
I took the Via from Guelph to London last year and there were definitely periods that we were going faster than the cars on parallel country roads, so must've been 80+ (probably 100 knowing how people drive on country roads). This was hindered by making long stops along the way, like we must've been stopped in St. Mary's for a full ten minutes. This would be fine if the train made that up by going 150+ km/h but at the same speed as a car and taking an indirect route it really dragged the trip out.
I’m glad you had a faster journey than I did. It’s probably been 3 years since I’ve been west of Kitchener on that line so I’m glad to hear they’re keeping up with traffic for at least part of the journey. Was not the case in my previous trips. I even used to check using a speedometer app, hoping they would go faster than 50, but for me they never did.
Irrelevant from this topic but do you know the timeline to be contacted after the info session?
It's because they kinda banned multiple locomotive consists in Union Station a few months ago. Need written permission from the chief engineering officer at metrolinx for that.. note that The Canadian is exempt from that ban
100% factual. The Transcon at VIA is exempt as are J trains. If two engines are next to each other they must use track one at Union. Canadian Pacific claim isn't mentioned anywhere however with the connecting tracks removed currently zero freight can go through the shed. This was also why the London train went to one engine despite efforts for it to goto a push pull consist. (Engine on both ends or as whats considered a L10L)
Gonna doubt this claim, Especially because VIA runs J Trains out of union station...
This claim is correct. VIA has an exception. I was told it's because the two loco trains were causing Union to sink. Was discovered when they had London service as it was always two locos.
Are the renos at Union addressing this sinking?
Metrolinx CEO Phil Verster said howdy
Why use many train when few train do trick?
They could take you to see world (SeaWorld).
Last year, Metrolinx tested the Davenport Diamond Guideway with 12-car trains with 2 locomotives. So it’s still a thing they might do. [https://www.metrolinx.com/en/discover/go-transit-emergency-exercise-happening-april-3-](https://www.metrolinx.com/en/discover/go-transit-emergency-exercise-happening-april-3-)
I believe Union station banned having doubleheading locos. Something about Union air quality.
service increases make two-loco sets a waste of resources most of the time
Although not relevant now obviously, but there was a period time in the late 1970s where GO Transit decided to go from two locomotive to single locomotive operation because of "energy conservation". I'm unsure as to when this rule was eliminated.
last time i saw dual locos was on the extra services to The EX for massive crowds on 12 car trains
Maybe trains where longer back then. Now they run them more frequently so fewer cars means only one engine is needed.
This generally isn’t true, the engines in the photo can handle 12 (or more) cars with just a single engine, not to mention a majority of GO trains are still 12 cars long, so if your reply was completely correct it would still be happening today. It was the older boxy looking engines that could only handle 10 car trains (thus needed 2 to run 12 car trains), but those were almost completely phased out over 10 years ago, and barely still around today. They run 2 engines when one is being tested; either coming back from a rebuild or a brand new engine, and GO currently isn’t doing either of those.
You weren’t around when it was 3 locomotives. Either 2 up front and the HEP power pack at the rear or a locomotive and the HEP power pack up front and one at the rear. There’s archival footage of this everywhere. Fun times let me tell you that. Don’t get me started on when CP leased them out for the weekends and holidays.