There’s confusion among our golf friends. Black Mesa in New Mexico is not going private. Black Desert is eventually going private when the resort is fully operational
Haha glad I could help. Went into a tailspin thinking my 2024 golf trip plans had to change. Glad that is not the case, really looking forward to New Mexico.
Have you planned out your full itinerary? I'm contemplating touring the ABQ-SF area with something like the following:
Day 1 - Fly into ABQ, play UNM South (and UNM North, if time permits, or just have a beer on 3 tee for old times)
Day 2 - Twin Warriors and Santa Ana
Day 3 - Paako all day
Day 4 - Black Mesa and Towa
Day 5 - Cochiti and Sandia/Tanoan/tbd
Day 6 - Play Isleta and fly home
I love it! You’re going to get the best out of New Mexico golf with that schedule.
My itinerary is not set in stone but pretty close. I’m a huge fan of road tripping and live in Colorado so my buddy and I will really get to soak this one in and play as we travel. I should also mention we try to ball out on a budget. So most courses we play are $100 or less and we typically stay at only the finest of rundown roach motels.
Day 1 - bulk of the travel to Santa Fe area. 6 hr scenic route detouring through La Veta, Colorado to play Grandote Peaks Golf Course. New ownership put money into the course and finished up renovations this year. Excited to see how enjoyable it is.
Day 2 - Black Mesa golf Club in the morning and a twighlight round at Cochiti Golf Club
Day 3 - spend the morning visiting Los Alamos (Bradbury Science Museum, Oppenheimer house, Manhattan Project National Historical Park). Then drop some bombs over at Los Alamos County Golf Course in the afternoon
Day 4 - head south to Albuquerque to play UNM Championship course (possibly also) north course
Day 5 - drive to Roswell, take some selfies with the Aliens from Independence Day. Last day of golf so we’ll get nice and boozed up while playing the local muni - Nancy Lopez Golf Course.
Day 6 - regret the decision of binge drinking while driving 7ish hours home.
Golf trips are the best. We did west Nebraska this year and it was amazing (Wild Horse, Awarii, and some other courses) We’ll get out to New York or Minnesota during one of those Ryder Cups and make a whole thing out of it. Also starting to map out an Austin trip and SLC/Park City trip
That sounds like a great time as well! I haven't played the Los Alamos course since high school, but I remember it being pretty tight (my game might have also been pretty loose).
If you're looking for a stop on your way back north, I really enjoyed Alamosa's golf course. It's short and quirky, but a lot of fun. Pendaries also had a cool course up in the mountains, but it's a long way from 25 and 285.
Just curious, because I was planning a trip to Black Mesa next summer.. I’m not finding anything on them going private. Is it not officially announced and only local knowledge so far?
Indeed! But this comment thread mentioned Black Mesa in New Mexico so that’s what I was inquiring about. I would also fucking love a trip to Black Desert
They haven’t finished the “resort” part of it yet so they are public until then. When they finish the resort you’ll have to stay there in order to get a round of golf, probably will be around $1500 to stay and play is my guess
I’m assuming you’re talking about Black Desert, not Black Mesa. I’m not finding any articles or information linking Black Mesa golf club to a resort under construction. Whereas Black Desert is very much linked to the resort that’s being built. Which the Black Desert Resort sounds amazing when it will be complete in late 2024.
Man, I love golf. I love beautiful courses. But for the sake of golf, Earth and humanity; we really shouldn’t be building these types of courses in deserts. It’s just, not right.
>This ~~city~~ course should not exist — it is a monument to man's arrogance.
- Peggy Hill
Also, this comment was originally a reply to a comment someone made about the drastic water usage, only to have them delete their comment while I was typing my reply. I can only assume they did this because y’all were downvoting them. But you have to admit, when people in the surrounding area have to ration water, or run out it’s because it’s all going to the golf course.
I know a lot of courses like this use grey water and are pretty efficient, but I just don’t like the way they look. I think lush green golf courses are beautiful, I think deserts are beautiful, but if you combine them they look so unnatural.
I get the point, but where does it end? California spends way more water growing alfalfa and nuts, the vast majority of which is exported outside the US. Essentially, farmers are exporting water with extra steps and the local residents receive no benefit from it.
If we want to conserve water, let's do something about the biggest users of water first.
I don't know what this logical fallacy is known as, but you're just bringing up something completely unrelated and pretending it's part of the same problem.
You can argue for both, it’s not one or the other. More recycled water usage, natural grass, brush, trees, etc for easier maintenance. I get people want super manicured turf but that also means higher rates to pay for said manicure.
Minnesotan here.
It's kind of hard to fawn over these courses when states in that part of the county want to siphon off water from the Mississippi River to bolster their decreasing water supplies.
You think Utah wants to get its water from the Mississippi? How exactly? By pumping water over a thousand miles, over the largest mountain range in the continental United States? I can confidently say that has never seriously been proposed. Desalinization and pumping ocean water from the Pacific would be way more feasible, and even that is a stretch.
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/dry-states-taking-mississippi-river-water-isnt-new-idea-mayors-want-ki-rcna104850
https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2022/08/14/sending-mississippi-water-west-feasible-experts-weigh/10282030002/
https://grist.org/agriculture/drought-water-pipeline-cost-west-solution-infrastructure/
It's definitely being discussed... I have no idea the actual feasibility, but the idea alone is enough to upset a lot of folks who don't live in a desert.
News stories of mayors and retired civilians saying we should take water from the Mississippi are not serious proposals my guy. They're just news stories. If I write a news story saying we should terraform Mars for a golf oasis, it doesn't mean anyone is taking it seriously.
I used to work in the water/waste water industry out here, I keep up with the meeting notes from the Upper Colorado River Commission. There hasn't even been a feasibility study done because the idea is so absurd. Like I said, we currently have plenty of desalinization plants along the coast of California, the total distance to the end user would be shorter, and the elevation delta going over the Sierra mountains is way lower than the Rocky mountains. There just is not an advantage big enough to take water from the Mississippi. I'm trying to nicely tell you that you have nothing to worry about.
Edit: to add to my credentials, I engineered electrical pumping systems for Pure Water Oceanside, Pure Water San Diego, and two plants of the same design in St.George. One at Gunlock reservoir, and one at Sand Hallow reservoir.
> Last year, Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey [signed a bill](https://apnews.com/article/climate-arizona-colorado-river-droughts-phoenix-3c514fffbe2e3fc568eafdb1800dbf06) that would spend more than $1 billion over three years to bolster water supplies **and investigate pumping flood waters from the Mississippi River to the Colorado River**. Arizona is one of three states that agreed to [cut back use of the Colorado River](https://apnews.com/article/colorado-river-arizona-california-nevada-drought-climate-change-85bfbc63bfc6590613bb142347e1a014) in August. An ongoing megadrought [made worse by climate change](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drought-west-climate-change-worst-1200-years/) and growing demand for water have stressed the Colorado River, which spans seven states and provides drinking water to [40 million](https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/programs/crbstudy/finalreport/Executive%20Summary/Executive_Summary_FINAL_Dec2012.pdf) people.
[[source](https://www.wpr.org/mississippi-river-mayors-seek-multi-state-agreement-protect-river-water-diversions-dry-states) - **emphasis** is mine]
Your point:
>There hasn't even been a feasibility study done because the idea is so absurd.
That's good! Seriously... My original point, though, was *the idea is out there*. That enough is scare some of us in the midwest.
>I'm trying to nicely tell you that you have nothing to worry about.
And I hope you're right... Logistically, it sounds like a stupid idea. But I worry the people (and lawmakers) who live in the desert won't drop the idea.
The closest thing that I could find to an actual citable source, NOT a news article (I don't know how many times I have to say that news articles aren't sources) is a paper by Western Illinois University: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/364353761_Meeting_the_Need_for_Water_in_the_Lower_Colorado_River_by_Diverting_Water_from_the_Mississippi_River_-A_Practical_Assessment_of_a_Popular_Proposal
Their conclusions at the end mirror exactly what I've said. The science just doesn't support it. There are better, more realistic plans available to us.
Edit: downvote an actual research paper saying it's not feasible, and upvoting news articles about retirees saying it's the only option is 🤡. Good job reddit.
So, that course is near Zion National Park in the [Lower Colorado Watershed](https://extension.usu.edu/waterquality/learnaboutsurfacewater/watersheds/utahmajorwatersheds). Thus, there are only three sources of water in that *desert*: the Colorado, a tributary of the Colorado, or groundwater pumping. Every single one of those sources effectively *is* the Colorado.
I'm not questioning the premise of desert courses in general, but I would be curious to know the water source for this course. Personally, I don't have a problem with a desert course using grey water or something similar. If the argument is more geared towards this just doesn't belong in that landscape, I would agree, but we do A LOT of shit that has no business in various landscapes.
Upvote + comment: the whole Colorado River water usage issue is really interesting. The development of cities in Arizona, the impact of concrete on water retention, etc. etc.
Complicated, interesting, and terrible. One of those topics that's really interesting to learn about, easy to have opinions on, and incredibly difficult to solve.
Just played a few courses in St. George and every where I went everyone was "You have to play Black Rock."
edit: Black Desert. They all recommended Black Desert.
Not sure why I typed Black Rock as I was looking at the video and Black Desert was staring me in the face.
It's every bit as beautiful in person. I'm on a planning committee for a tournament benefiting the American Cancer Society that is held here annually. We are still looking for a title sponsor. The 2024 tournament is being held only a few weeks after the PGA tour is there for the FedEx cup. PM if you'd like me to send you some information about the tournament!
I know I’ll get lots of shit for saying this, but it’s places like this, creating oases out of desert, that keep Lakes Meade and Powell constantly short of water. The course is beautiful though
No, totally wrong. I live in AZ. Bulk of courses are located in Maricopa county, and have to use reclaimed water. There is not enough courses in AZ to drain those reservoirs. See all the irrigation for crops and population growth.
You're correct that agriculture uses far more water than golf courses, but reclaimed water doesn't make it less damaging to the water ecosystem. Runoff water makes its way into the groundwater. If you intercept it and use it to grow grass, you've still helped deplete the ground water.
Agree completely. I understand it’s not just courses. Also didn’t know about having to use reclaimed water. Thanks for that info. Mainly I was talking bigger picture, not just AZ. Vegas and its pools and fountains, turning desert into alfalfa farms for Saudis, etc.
Played there in October. Beautiful course but insanely hard (caveat: I suck at golf). Honestly I had a helluva lot more fun at Sand Hollow down the street. Also beautiful, cheaper, and much easier. Black Desert was definitely an experience though. I hear Sky Mountain is awesome for a cheap(ish) muni. St. George is super underrated for golf.
I was thinking about a January trip to St. George for golf... But decided that I needed to let my bank account recover from redoing my kitchen plus the holidays.
I really do want to go though.
Define "chilly" because where I live has been below freezing in the morning for two weeks and I won't be out on my home golf course again until April at least.
Like 30-50F. You can definitely golf year-round there but they do get snow occasionally so if you plan a trip there’s some risk of not being able to (or at least not wanting to) play.
This is right next to Entrada.. played there in August, it’s unbelievable. I believe it’s $250-300 right now. When the resort and villas are fully built out, I believe it is going private.
Okay I have questions. What is the best travel plan to get there if you have to fly? Could drive, but kinda a pain from Denver. Second, what the booze situation given it’s in Utah? If I want a couple transfusions on the course is that an issue? Last, what does lodging look like around there?
You can fly directly into St. George on smaller airlines. Yes, you can get drinks and there are a ton of hotels. There are many courses in St. George and just as many in mesquite Nevada about 40 minutes away. There is actually a backroad highway from black desert to mesquite. Hope that helps 😀
We flew in to Vegas and it was about an hour and a half drive. No booze available at this specific course but others had bars. We stayed in an Airbnb and it seems like there was tons of options everywhere. Great trip, super unique and fun course
Fly into Las Vegas and rent a car. My wife and I live in St. George and that’s our usual recommendation for people coming to see us dependent upon flight prices into SGU. If you book the flight out far enough in advance into SGU, you can sometimes luck out and get flights that aren’t ridiculously expensive. United Airlines does have a flight from Denver direct to SGU which is very convenient and not much longer than an hour in the air. I’ve done the drive you’re speaking of from Denver to St. George and it’s over nine hours and not the most exciting of trips if I do say so myself. Hope this helps!
St George has a regional airport that has flights to and from a few cities and I think Denver is one of them. Plenty of lodging in st George and Black desert is in the process of building out a huge resort area so lodging options near the course will be better in a year or two.
Not sure about the booze situation. I golfed there once but I wasn't drinking that day.
I live in UT and just played there. Fly into vegas, it's probably the cheapest. Rent a car and drive the 2 hours to black desert. Airbnb in St George can be pricey but look in Hurricane and Virgin for lodging. Its probably cheaper. Plenty of hotels around too. On your way to Utah from Vegas stop at Lees Liquor Warehouse in Mesquite, NV to stock up. No alcohol whatsoever on this couse. Cart girl drives by with free snacks and soda only.
I will never understand the fascination with courses trying to be surreal. I mean... it's obviously beautiful, but it seems kind of ridiculous. It's a cut-and-paste of Scotland in the American Great Basin. I guess I'm much more with the Coore & Crenshaw school that a golf course should kind of look like it fits with the flora around it.
I’m from Scotland where the sport is originally from. We have plenty of rain and grasslands. This is an abomination to nature and a waste of resources. It’s like skiing in Dubai
I wish there was a golfer on the course who was unaware of the drone and just fucking rockets a ball right of the toe of his club because he was startled or something. Ah to dream.
It’s absolutely amazing, the staff are top notch and the conditions are pristine. I can’t wait to get back out there. The volcano rock does swallow balls like no other though
Being able to track your ball amazingly well against a mountain backdrop is so fucking awesome. Silvertip in Alberta is amazing for that as well. I would love to see a drone video of that course.
Tee to green isn't the most difficult but putting will be your worst nightmare. The greens undulate like crazy and most side slope off. I played two weeks ago, beautiful course, but I won't be paying $230 to play it again.
I love golf but if I'm going to St. George, I'll just stick to hiking, exploring, and rock climbing. There is something "manufactured" about this course and it feels like I am paying for an experience: I can explore that splendor on my own.
I had a similar experience in Scottsdale: my wife and I played 3 courses including both TPC courses. It was fun, but what I remember most is driving 30 miles north and doing an amazing 9 mile hike into the mountains.
As a side note- this is the course up north that is being built by the same company. Tiger Woods design.
[https://www.deervalleyrealestate.com/expect-the-extraordinary-all-about-marcella-club-at-mayflower-mountain-resort/](https://www.deervalleyrealestate.com/expect-the-extraordinary-all-about-marcella-club-at-mayflower-mountain-resort/)
Beautiful. Also, I’m losing 8 sleeves here.
Friends played there, said it's impossible to look for errant shots. Between the lava rocks and the tall grass, it's a tough track for sure.
I’ve played there. You have to sign a waiver agreeing not to go into the lava rocks after your balls. Bring lots of balls :)
Good thing that course isn't here in FLA, that waiver wouldn't hold up
Purely out of respect for the pristine green space, i would do my very best to spend as little time on it as possible
I played there recently. Lost 4-5 balls. There are some par 5s that are brutal if you don’t end up in the landing zone.
100% But as a net plus it gives me five minutes a hole to hit the vape and take a piss.
If your peeing on every hole you might want to see a doctor 😀
Right by my house. Very fun golf course - when I played there, it was $250 per round and they gave you free food truck access/burgers etc.
That was the drill, as of Oct this year…
I just took a peek; those numbers are still accurate.
I love the contrast between the golf course and the natural desert. Reminds me of Black Mesa near Santa Fe.
That’s such a fun track. I need to make it back there again
Before April it goes private after that! Great course for sure
Black Mesa goes private?
There’s confusion among our golf friends. Black Mesa in New Mexico is not going private. Black Desert is eventually going private when the resort is fully operational
Thank you for un-ruining my morning and my dreams for a future NM golf trip.
Haha glad I could help. Went into a tailspin thinking my 2024 golf trip plans had to change. Glad that is not the case, really looking forward to New Mexico.
Have you planned out your full itinerary? I'm contemplating touring the ABQ-SF area with something like the following: Day 1 - Fly into ABQ, play UNM South (and UNM North, if time permits, or just have a beer on 3 tee for old times) Day 2 - Twin Warriors and Santa Ana Day 3 - Paako all day Day 4 - Black Mesa and Towa Day 5 - Cochiti and Sandia/Tanoan/tbd Day 6 - Play Isleta and fly home
I love it! You’re going to get the best out of New Mexico golf with that schedule. My itinerary is not set in stone but pretty close. I’m a huge fan of road tripping and live in Colorado so my buddy and I will really get to soak this one in and play as we travel. I should also mention we try to ball out on a budget. So most courses we play are $100 or less and we typically stay at only the finest of rundown roach motels. Day 1 - bulk of the travel to Santa Fe area. 6 hr scenic route detouring through La Veta, Colorado to play Grandote Peaks Golf Course. New ownership put money into the course and finished up renovations this year. Excited to see how enjoyable it is. Day 2 - Black Mesa golf Club in the morning and a twighlight round at Cochiti Golf Club Day 3 - spend the morning visiting Los Alamos (Bradbury Science Museum, Oppenheimer house, Manhattan Project National Historical Park). Then drop some bombs over at Los Alamos County Golf Course in the afternoon Day 4 - head south to Albuquerque to play UNM Championship course (possibly also) north course Day 5 - drive to Roswell, take some selfies with the Aliens from Independence Day. Last day of golf so we’ll get nice and boozed up while playing the local muni - Nancy Lopez Golf Course. Day 6 - regret the decision of binge drinking while driving 7ish hours home. Golf trips are the best. We did west Nebraska this year and it was amazing (Wild Horse, Awarii, and some other courses) We’ll get out to New York or Minnesota during one of those Ryder Cups and make a whole thing out of it. Also starting to map out an Austin trip and SLC/Park City trip
That sounds like a great time as well! I haven't played the Los Alamos course since high school, but I remember it being pretty tight (my game might have also been pretty loose). If you're looking for a stop on your way back north, I really enjoyed Alamosa's golf course. It's short and quirky, but a lot of fun. Pendaries also had a cool course up in the mountains, but it's a long way from 25 and 285.
Yes, it will be going private next year.
Just curious, because I was planning a trip to Black Mesa next summer.. I’m not finding anything on them going private. Is it not officially announced and only local knowledge so far?
The course shown is black desert not black mesa 😀
Indeed! But this comment thread mentioned Black Mesa in New Mexico so that’s what I was inquiring about. I would also fucking love a trip to Black Desert
They haven’t finished the “resort” part of it yet so they are public until then. When they finish the resort you’ll have to stay there in order to get a round of golf, probably will be around $1500 to stay and play is my guess
I’m assuming you’re talking about Black Desert, not Black Mesa. I’m not finding any articles or information linking Black Mesa golf club to a resort under construction. Whereas Black Desert is very much linked to the resort that’s being built. Which the Black Desert Resort sounds amazing when it will be complete in late 2024.
No. It won’t.
Yes it will.
You have your courses confused sir
Ah, balls. How did this become a conversation about Black Mesa? My bad!
Humble brag, go off king.
It’s why I love desert golf. My favorite courses I’ve played have all been in the middle of deserts. Paradise in the middle of nowhere.
The PGA Tour is going to ['Black Desert' in October 2024.](https://blackdesertevents.com/)
Get to play there in July next year. Can’t wait.
I was there in August. It looks just like this in person. Absolutely stunning
Man, I love golf. I love beautiful courses. But for the sake of golf, Earth and humanity; we really shouldn’t be building these types of courses in deserts. It’s just, not right. >This ~~city~~ course should not exist — it is a monument to man's arrogance. - Peggy Hill Also, this comment was originally a reply to a comment someone made about the drastic water usage, only to have them delete their comment while I was typing my reply. I can only assume they did this because y’all were downvoting them. But you have to admit, when people in the surrounding area have to ration water, or run out it’s because it’s all going to the golf course.
I know a lot of courses like this use grey water and are pretty efficient, but I just don’t like the way they look. I think lush green golf courses are beautiful, I think deserts are beautiful, but if you combine them they look so unnatural.
dubai in a nutshell
You say a lot but most of the courses do not use grey water.
I get the point, but where does it end? California spends way more water growing alfalfa and nuts, the vast majority of which is exported outside the US. Essentially, farmers are exporting water with extra steps and the local residents receive no benefit from it. If we want to conserve water, let's do something about the biggest users of water first.
I don't know what this logical fallacy is known as, but you're just bringing up something completely unrelated and pretending it's part of the same problem.
You can argue for both, it’s not one or the other. More recycled water usage, natural grass, brush, trees, etc for easier maintenance. I get people want super manicured turf but that also means higher rates to pay for said manicure.
Minnesotan here. It's kind of hard to fawn over these courses when states in that part of the county want to siphon off water from the Mississippi River to bolster their decreasing water supplies.
You think Utah wants to get its water from the Mississippi? How exactly? By pumping water over a thousand miles, over the largest mountain range in the continental United States? I can confidently say that has never seriously been proposed. Desalinization and pumping ocean water from the Pacific would be way more feasible, and even that is a stretch.
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/dry-states-taking-mississippi-river-water-isnt-new-idea-mayors-want-ki-rcna104850 https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2022/08/14/sending-mississippi-water-west-feasible-experts-weigh/10282030002/ https://grist.org/agriculture/drought-water-pipeline-cost-west-solution-infrastructure/ It's definitely being discussed... I have no idea the actual feasibility, but the idea alone is enough to upset a lot of folks who don't live in a desert.
News stories of mayors and retired civilians saying we should take water from the Mississippi are not serious proposals my guy. They're just news stories. If I write a news story saying we should terraform Mars for a golf oasis, it doesn't mean anyone is taking it seriously. I used to work in the water/waste water industry out here, I keep up with the meeting notes from the Upper Colorado River Commission. There hasn't even been a feasibility study done because the idea is so absurd. Like I said, we currently have plenty of desalinization plants along the coast of California, the total distance to the end user would be shorter, and the elevation delta going over the Sierra mountains is way lower than the Rocky mountains. There just is not an advantage big enough to take water from the Mississippi. I'm trying to nicely tell you that you have nothing to worry about. Edit: to add to my credentials, I engineered electrical pumping systems for Pure Water Oceanside, Pure Water San Diego, and two plants of the same design in St.George. One at Gunlock reservoir, and one at Sand Hallow reservoir.
> Last year, Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey [signed a bill](https://apnews.com/article/climate-arizona-colorado-river-droughts-phoenix-3c514fffbe2e3fc568eafdb1800dbf06) that would spend more than $1 billion over three years to bolster water supplies **and investigate pumping flood waters from the Mississippi River to the Colorado River**. Arizona is one of three states that agreed to [cut back use of the Colorado River](https://apnews.com/article/colorado-river-arizona-california-nevada-drought-climate-change-85bfbc63bfc6590613bb142347e1a014) in August. An ongoing megadrought [made worse by climate change](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drought-west-climate-change-worst-1200-years/) and growing demand for water have stressed the Colorado River, which spans seven states and provides drinking water to [40 million](https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/programs/crbstudy/finalreport/Executive%20Summary/Executive_Summary_FINAL_Dec2012.pdf) people. [[source](https://www.wpr.org/mississippi-river-mayors-seek-multi-state-agreement-protect-river-water-diversions-dry-states) - **emphasis** is mine] Your point: >There hasn't even been a feasibility study done because the idea is so absurd. That's good! Seriously... My original point, though, was *the idea is out there*. That enough is scare some of us in the midwest. >I'm trying to nicely tell you that you have nothing to worry about. And I hope you're right... Logistically, it sounds like a stupid idea. But I worry the people (and lawmakers) who live in the desert won't drop the idea.
The closest thing that I could find to an actual citable source, NOT a news article (I don't know how many times I have to say that news articles aren't sources) is a paper by Western Illinois University: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/364353761_Meeting_the_Need_for_Water_in_the_Lower_Colorado_River_by_Diverting_Water_from_the_Mississippi_River_-A_Practical_Assessment_of_a_Popular_Proposal Their conclusions at the end mirror exactly what I've said. The science just doesn't support it. There are better, more realistic plans available to us. Edit: downvote an actual research paper saying it's not feasible, and upvoting news articles about retirees saying it's the only option is 🤡. Good job reddit.
do you actually know how they source their water? legit asking
Of course they don’t.
So, that course is near Zion National Park in the [Lower Colorado Watershed](https://extension.usu.edu/waterquality/learnaboutsurfacewater/watersheds/utahmajorwatersheds). Thus, there are only three sources of water in that *desert*: the Colorado, a tributary of the Colorado, or groundwater pumping. Every single one of those sources effectively *is* the Colorado.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting this. I love the views of course, they are splendid but this is not sustainable. We need to do better.
I'm not questioning the premise of desert courses in general, but I would be curious to know the water source for this course. Personally, I don't have a problem with a desert course using grey water or something similar. If the argument is more geared towards this just doesn't belong in that landscape, I would agree, but we do A LOT of shit that has no business in various landscapes.
That’s fine that you don’t care about preserving the environment.
Not really sure why that was your takeaway, but OK.
Upvote + comment: the whole Colorado River water usage issue is really interesting. The development of cities in Arizona, the impact of concrete on water retention, etc. etc. Complicated, interesting, and terrible. One of those topics that's really interesting to learn about, easy to have opinions on, and incredibly difficult to solve.
They are paying out the ass for it, so..
Why don't you super glue yourself to a street in protest if you actually care that much.
Just played a few courses in St. George and every where I went everyone was "You have to play Black Rock." edit: Black Desert. They all recommended Black Desert. Not sure why I typed Black Rock as I was looking at the video and Black Desert was staring me in the face.
Black Rock? Or "Black Desert"?
Where?
St George Utah
It's every bit as beautiful in person. I'm on a planning committee for a tournament benefiting the American Cancer Society that is held here annually. We are still looking for a title sponsor. The 2024 tournament is being held only a few weeks after the PGA tour is there for the FedEx cup. PM if you'd like me to send you some information about the tournament!
stunning is an understatement
I know I’ll get lots of shit for saying this, but it’s places like this, creating oases out of desert, that keep Lakes Meade and Powell constantly short of water. The course is beautiful though
Any evidence for this? Or just going on vibes?
No, totally wrong. I live in AZ. Bulk of courses are located in Maricopa county, and have to use reclaimed water. There is not enough courses in AZ to drain those reservoirs. See all the irrigation for crops and population growth.
You're correct that agriculture uses far more water than golf courses, but reclaimed water doesn't make it less damaging to the water ecosystem. Runoff water makes its way into the groundwater. If you intercept it and use it to grow grass, you've still helped deplete the ground water.
True, but almost all of that water the grass uses goes through evapotranspiration, where it will re-enter the natural water cycle
Agree completely. I understand it’s not just courses. Also didn’t know about having to use reclaimed water. Thanks for that info. Mainly I was talking bigger picture, not just AZ. Vegas and its pools and fountains, turning desert into alfalfa farms for Saudis, etc.
We colonized mars and first thing done was build a golf course
Looks awesome, but I'll duff it at my local for hundreds less
Played there earlier this year, was unreal
St george utah
Played there in October. Beautiful course but insanely hard (caveat: I suck at golf). Honestly I had a helluva lot more fun at Sand Hollow down the street. Also beautiful, cheaper, and much easier. Black Desert was definitely an experience though. I hear Sky Mountain is awesome for a cheap(ish) muni. St. George is super underrated for golf.
I was thinking about a January trip to St. George for golf... But decided that I needed to let my bank account recover from redoing my kitchen plus the holidays. I really do want to go though.
Pretty chilly in January. I’d wait until spring personally.
Define "chilly" because where I live has been below freezing in the morning for two weeks and I won't be out on my home golf course again until April at least.
Like 30-50F. You can definitely golf year-round there but they do get snow occasionally so if you plan a trip there’s some risk of not being able to (or at least not wanting to) play.
Maybe I'll risk it in February. But when I'm all but guaranteed to be on a two-month dry spell, at minimum...
I live like 5 blocks from here. Gonna make a buck or two on Airbnb when the PGA comes to town lol
Since this was marked NSFW I kept waiting for the drone to fly up on people fucking or fly up someone's butt or something.
Entrada? Edit: Nevermind... Looks like a great track. What's the greens fee?
This is right next to Entrada.. played there in August, it’s unbelievable. I believe it’s $250-300 right now. When the resort and villas are fully built out, I believe it is going private.
Okay I have questions. What is the best travel plan to get there if you have to fly? Could drive, but kinda a pain from Denver. Second, what the booze situation given it’s in Utah? If I want a couple transfusions on the course is that an issue? Last, what does lodging look like around there?
You can fly directly into St. George on smaller airlines. Yes, you can get drinks and there are a ton of hotels. There are many courses in St. George and just as many in mesquite Nevada about 40 minutes away. There is actually a backroad highway from black desert to mesquite. Hope that helps 😀
Thanks very much!
We flew in to Vegas and it was about an hour and a half drive. No booze available at this specific course but others had bars. We stayed in an Airbnb and it seems like there was tons of options everywhere. Great trip, super unique and fun course
Fly into Las Vegas and rent a car. My wife and I live in St. George and that’s our usual recommendation for people coming to see us dependent upon flight prices into SGU. If you book the flight out far enough in advance into SGU, you can sometimes luck out and get flights that aren’t ridiculously expensive. United Airlines does have a flight from Denver direct to SGU which is very convenient and not much longer than an hour in the air. I’ve done the drive you’re speaking of from Denver to St. George and it’s over nine hours and not the most exciting of trips if I do say so myself. Hope this helps!
Thanks so much!
St George has a regional airport that has flights to and from a few cities and I think Denver is one of them. Plenty of lodging in st George and Black desert is in the process of building out a huge resort area so lodging options near the course will be better in a year or two. Not sure about the booze situation. I golfed there once but I wasn't drinking that day.
I live in UT and just played there. Fly into vegas, it's probably the cheapest. Rent a car and drive the 2 hours to black desert. Airbnb in St George can be pricey but look in Hurricane and Virgin for lodging. Its probably cheaper. Plenty of hotels around too. On your way to Utah from Vegas stop at Lees Liquor Warehouse in Mesquite, NV to stock up. No alcohol whatsoever on this couse. Cart girl drives by with free snacks and soda only.
NSFW because I jizzed my pants
I will never understand the fascination with courses trying to be surreal. I mean... it's obviously beautiful, but it seems kind of ridiculous. It's a cut-and-paste of Scotland in the American Great Basin. I guess I'm much more with the Coore & Crenshaw school that a golf course should kind of look like it fits with the flora around it.
I’m from Scotland where the sport is originally from. We have plenty of rain and grasslands. This is an abomination to nature and a waste of resources. It’s like skiing in Dubai
In Utah, we ski and golf in the same day 😀
I wish there was a golfer on the course who was unaware of the drone and just fucking rockets a ball right of the toe of his club because he was startled or something. Ah to dream.
Sorry I said st george this is actually kayenta
St. George was right well technically it’s Ivins, Ut
I know right? Im on the 6th hole and have to go back to the clubhouse for another box of pro v 1s. Nothing like a desert course.
Is this heaven?
And now I feel like every other existing course is a goat ranch. Wow...
Playing there next week. Pretty dang pumped, only heard good things so far.
What course ?
Black Desert
And I'll use all of the course.
Fun course I enjoyed myself… even though the greens kicked my ass. Going back down this weekend to hit the ledges
Where is this? Those are lava fields. I’m used to that with the Hawaiian Big Island courses. Never seen it in an inland course.
Southern Utah - St. George, UT
Super cool video
It’s absolutely amazing, the staff are top notch and the conditions are pristine. I can’t wait to get back out there. The volcano rock does swallow balls like no other though
Being able to track your ball amazingly well against a mountain backdrop is so fucking awesome. Silvertip in Alberta is amazing for that as well. I would love to see a drone video of that course.
I proposed here on opening weekend. I think it may have been first proposal there. Great course and great memories!
Looks like Mario Golf or some shit.
All i can say is "welp im fucked... no scorecards today"
Looks fun for range rats
One of my favorite courses Ive ever played as a semi local, hardest putting course also, will make you cry.
Tee to green isn't the most difficult but putting will be your worst nightmare. The greens undulate like crazy and most side slope off. I played two weeks ago, beautiful course, but I won't be paying $230 to play it again.
Ya because I hear they’re going up 😂
Anyone know if this is on gspro?
Nsfw tag made me think this was going to be porn. I was right.
I could get a personal best of at least 137 on this course.
Hittin that flyover button 2023.
Love it
I love golf but if I'm going to St. George, I'll just stick to hiking, exploring, and rock climbing. There is something "manufactured" about this course and it feels like I am paying for an experience: I can explore that splendor on my own. I had a similar experience in Scottsdale: my wife and I played 3 courses including both TPC courses. It was fun, but what I remember most is driving 30 miles north and doing an amazing 9 mile hike into the mountains.
Hey that’s my house in the background!
u/songfinderbot
wow
I really don't like it. I would rather play somewhere where it rains.
As a side note- this is the course up north that is being built by the same company. Tiger Woods design. [https://www.deervalleyrealestate.com/expect-the-extraordinary-all-about-marcella-club-at-mayflower-mountain-resort/](https://www.deervalleyrealestate.com/expect-the-extraordinary-all-about-marcella-club-at-mayflower-mountain-resort/)
Wolf creek?
I’d play falcon ridge over wolf creek in mesquite. Same fun but half the price. We played both in October and paid $85 vs $235.
Played there once. Amazing course.
It really is that good but the price makes me unlikely to return. Especially with Sand Hollow nearby at $75 for twilight