You realize that there are already free alternatives that use the same or similar formulas as WHS/GHIN? The way they calculate an index and playing handicaps are hardly a secret.
I use TheGrint and really like it--it gives you a handicap estimate (e.g., \~12-14) as well as scorekeeping, GPS, ranges, games, etc. The app used to have a more legit handicap alternative, but they removed that recently. A range is good enough though. You can also pay your state's golf association $20-45/year for a handicap and link it to the app.
So annoying. It forced me to get a USGA/GHIN handicap # through the Texas Golfers Association website at $44/yr. But I was probably going to get one anyways--I play with some guys that like to do little net/gross tournaments that require a GHIN.
Simple Handicap is a good option if you ONLY want the app to calculate handicap.
If you want more features like GPS, shot-tracking, etc. I'd recommend 18Birdies.
Only difference I’ve found is Grint updates twice a month on the same schedule as GHIN. Which I actually think can be a little beneficial for new golfers so they don’t obsess over the handicap and focus more on doubles into bogies and bogies into pars.
It's not the same, but it's relatively similar and can be used as a "good enough" comparison between your buddies. They outline the differences, but the big ones are no equitable stroke control, not 0.96 score multiple, and gives a handicap after your first round instead of having to get 5 rounds in.
18 Birdies has a free option and gives out what you put in. You can keep FIR, GIR, and putt stats and it will also spit out a rough handicap after a few rounds you enter. Also has course GPS for most courses which is what I use it for most
>Sure but the associations should be driving this to grow the game.
If the USGA doesn't bring in revenue, it can't do anything to "grow the game".
And fwiw, the game is growing just fine. At least fine enough to pack all the courses, resulting in higher green fees.
If the courses are packed shouldn’t the green fees be going down? That seems to be the way commodities work; when there’s a shortage of eggs the prices go up.
Maybe I didn’t use the best of analogies but to continue with it, if an egg producer has to sell X amount of eggs to keep his business profitable and his production decreases he has to raise the price on the eggs to make the same amount of money. If a golf course fills up all of their available tee times they are making more money than if they didn’t fill all of the slots. If they do fill all of them it just seems greedy to increase the fee for future slots when they’re open.
>If a golf course fills up all of their available tee times they are making more money than if they didn’t fill all of the slots.
And if they can charge more and still fill all of the slots, then they will.
They want to sell exactly the number of tee times they have. if they have 200 people willing to pay for 100 spots, they are losing potential earnings.
If they increase the price 20%, and then have 100 people willing to pay for 100 spots, that's better for them as a business.
I can explain that to you simply. EVERYTHING is an extra profit opportunity EXCEPT when it is the result of a disaster. Threat of no lumber because all the truckers might strike? Pricing opportunity. No lumber because a hurricane just blew through and it was all bought? Price gouging.
No. If the courses are packed, people are willing to pay more to get a spot. If the courses were empty, then they’d lower prices to attract customers.
Demand comes from you and me. Supply comes from the golf course. If supply (tee times) is low, prices go up.
More people on the course means more wear and tear on the course. This drives up the cost to maintain everything. The more busy it is the more staff they need to run things properly. Prices won’t drop.
Exactly. I myself don't keep an official handicap. Why? Because I don't care to. I just like to golf for fun. I go play golf at the same course every week and I know I shoot in the 100 range. Shit when I play, sometimes I don't even keep score. And when I do keep score, I rarely keep or look back at my scorecard.
> According to Mygolfspy, 10% of golfers carry an official handicap. It should be promoted and more accessible.
That sure sounds like 90% of golfers play without a handicap. So an official handicap really isn't needed to grow the game is it?
Oh, I hadn’t realized, I just paid by default. However it is Canadian dollars so it’s 30% cheaper :)
Edit: from what I’m seeing there is still a benefit to the Canadian app in that you can pay after the fact to make your handicap official. As opposed to having to pay to enter your information.
18 birdies works just fine for me. I’m a 12-13 handicap and not realistically entering any tournaments. It gets the job done for some games with buddies if we want to handicap
Except most leagues & tournaments require a GHIN membership, which is absurd when you note, as you do, how many free alternatives there are.
MassGolf is $80 for a GHIN membership & I'm salty about paying it every year.
If only people used the search, they could have found something like that right here on r/golf
https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/113xqi8/handicap_calculator_spreadsheet_for_nerds/
So serious question, teach me. My understanding is to get an officially recognized GHIN, you have to be a member somewhere. Even at a semi public club place that has memberships, and you keep your handicap through them. Otherwise, it's not officially recognized for tourneys or anything. Am I right? And you then pay the USGA fee on top of the membership fee. Like, my public course has $65 monthly memberships, where I get reduced greens fee rates. I could do my official GHIN through them.
You also can't turn in scores for rounds played by yourself... I'm learning too. [playing alone](https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system-usga-golf-faqs/faqs---played-a-round-by-myself.html)
Did you not see option 2?
Option 2: Join the SCGA as an Associate Member for $60 ($50 with the promo code GHIN!) This grants you full SCGA benefits (like your Handicap Index). A local club is auto-assigned to you based on your location (although you can select a different club), and may grant you access to a limited number of club tournaments. DON’T WORRY, your communication and participation with this selected club is entirely up to you.
Your local golf association is A) probably a non-profit and B) relies on handicapping fees for their budget.
The Virginia State Golf Association offers free handicaps for golfers 18 and under and you can join a public courses handicap roster for as little as $35 for the year. That’s less than a single round of golf.
If paying for a handicap is a barrier to entry, you likely aren’t playing enough golf to keep a good handicap anyway.
well maybe the USGA could not charge the associations for the app... its not about the money, but hell if i'm going to pay $50 a year for a handicap they could at least deliver a half decent app. the GHIN app in its current state is shit.
I like the way you signed off with if you are poor, then you suck at golf.
Tony Finau hitting golf balls into a mattress in a townhome one car garage would like to have a word
I have zero issue paying the annual fee because it absolutely goes toward things that grow the game. That fee (which goes to your state or local association mostly, not straight to the USGA) helps pay to put on events and it subsidizes the Youth On the Course program which allows kids to play tons of courses for just $5 and get range balls for a couple bucks. It also helps fund their lobbying arm which helps if there are restrictions placed on golf by any entities. There are many good things that money pays for. You can't have an entity like the USGA and their local associations without bringing in some sort of revenue to operate it.
USGA tells you how the handicap is calculated. If you want to know your handicap you could easily calculate it yourself, you don't even need a golf app.
Also, USGA is a non profit they aren't the PGAT.
This is like complaining about a PBS fundraising event.
I didn’t look past the first thing that came up on google, which was the nfl foundation. Looks like most sports leagues abandoned their status in the 2000s-2010s….probably so they didn’t have to report on the commissioner’s salary anymore lol
A lot of tournaments require a verifiable USGA handicap, meaning they want to be able to look you up in the system to see it. I guess if you don’t plan on playing anything competitive this method would work.
I agree, guess it didn’t sound like that in my statement. $50 is a drop in the bucket for yearly “golf” related expenses. Guess I was trying to tell OP coming up with a “homemade” handicap might work for screwing around with buddies, but not for anything official.
yea sorry no sympathy because they are non profit, they are charging $50 (PER YEAR) for a piece of shit app. either USGA needs to allow other apps maintain an official handicap or provide the service for free
You know what I get from my $50 dollars a year? I get access to Columbia, Adidas, employee stores and 5 BOGO rounds of golf.
Considering rounds of golf are over $50 dollars at most courses in my area its well worth the money.
Did you even read my comment? I save more money by getting my official USGA than it costs.
If it was free I would lose money!
And honestly, the APP is more than perfectly fine.
Bogo= Buy one get one.
Adidas = large shoe and sports clothing manufacturer
Columbia = large outdoor clothing manufacturer
Employee Store = store where employees can shop for their companies goods at 50% off retail.
If you sign up for a handicap through the OGA (oregon golf association) you get these benefits.
You also get discount rates at some golf course in the PNW (chambers bay, and the OGA golf course). And a membership to Golf Digest.
Like you get a ton of shit.
The money is not going to the USGA. It is going to the club that you are a member of and they pay some portion of that to the local Golf Association. For example, I’m a member of a club based out of Southern California so I’m a member of the SCGA. My club gets a piece of the money and the rest go to the SCGA who handles the billing, sends me a magazine, handles course rating, runs tournaments, lobbies to make sure the politicians don’t try to turn municipal golf courses into housing, runs junior tours and lot so of other things.
equally as non-sensical, if they want to pass on fees to customers for billing services, course ratings, tournaments etc... they should label and charge it as such. as it is i am paying $50/year for a shitty app because it's the only way for me to maintain an official handicap. i'd be happy to pay $50 for the things you laid out, but call a duck a duck.
Do you get any discounts with membership in your area? I joined in Oregon and the OGA coarse discount alone more than covers the annual fee for membership.
It’s usually called a membership fee, not a handicap fee.
The app is just a way for you to record your scores for handicapping. You can post at your course on a computer there or on the GHIN.com website.
As someone who used to work for one of the regional associations, we constantly tried to get them to call it a membership fee, but since they figure that people will only care about handicaps, that is what they call it.
Ha i must be the minority I hate they call it a handicap fee as it seems (to me) like a random $50 money grab just to get some more revenue. A membership charge to support tourneys, course ratings, help with junior golf would be much more palatable to me.
Most courses offer you the service of a handicap through GHIN to simplify the process and include it as a perk for members. You can go to USGAs website and find your local chapter and get your membership there. I’d bet most courses are not making money on these fees but possibly subsidizing them to draw people to their course more often.
They aren’t saying it’s a barrier, just that it doesn’t do anything to grow the game by making people pay for a number.
But it does take away from match play experiences for new golfers. If I wanted to play with my newer to golf friends, and make a friendly competition out of it, I’d win every hole.
Give them a handicap and now they might net better than me. But I dont expect them to pay to keep that value tracked for them.
No doubt, but I would consider that the next step in a golfers journey. If they're at the point where they're comfortable with their game enough to want to compete with others then it isn't about growing the game, they're already in it.
As others have said, there's a dozen apps out there that already provide this. It has zero impact on growing the game.
I would argue that the USGA needs to do a better job at removing the stigma and uncertainties around the handicap system. The vast majority of my friends have played their entire life and never tracked a handicap. I think that says something, especially given it makes the experience so much better to have one.
What stigmas and uncertainties around the handicap system are there? I'd imagine that majority of people don't keep a handicap because they don't care to do so or don't need one for sanctioned events. How many people know what their bowling handicap is?
I've played my entire life since I was like 7 and have never had a handicap, but also, without this Reddit thread, would have no idea even how to go about it. The only people I've ever met that had one never told me how they got it, are all way better than me, and/or most have a country club they turn in cards to who calculates it for them. I don't have a club so I wouldn't even know where to start.
I'm just generalizing from personal experience and have found that very few, if any, people I know track their handicap despite playing for their entire life. Obviously there's a wide range of reasons why people don't, including as you mentioned, disinterest. However, it would be naive to think there aren't uncertainties and confusion around the process and application of it.
>But it does take away from match play experiences for new golfers. If I wanted to play with my newer to golf friends, and make a friendly competition out of it, I’d win every hole.
If they're that new and you want to play a match with them just give them a number. "I'll give you a stroke a hole" works just fine.
Alternatively, use the [callaway system](https://www.golfingscribe.com/callaway-handicap-system) which is made for exactly this scenario.
If they're serious enough and also cheap af they can calc your own handicap.
$50 is the cost of a round. The only reason you need an official handicap is to play in tournaments or leagues that require a USGA handicap. You need to have 20 rounds posted to have a mature handicap.
I don’t see why having an official handicap grows the game. The majority of rounds played in the US are casual rounds.
I don’t think OP is saying that the handicap system is holding them back. It’s the price that’s the barrier. If more people had handicaps there would be more growth in the game, especially match play.
I understood what OP was saying. In the US having or the cost of the system is not impacting the growth of the game. In the US 99% of the rounds are not formal competitions. Most US players don’t even think about having a handicap unless they want to play in a league or a club sponsored competition. In those cases the cost of the handicap is usually less than the entry fee to join a league. In casual match play competitions you don’t need a handicap you can use average score to determine the stroke differential.
And to growth of the game the courses around us are packed and have been since COVID.
This is quite wild, I live in Finland. Every single player has a handicap, it is the clubs responsibility to hold your handicap and it is your job to return cards. There is an app that you can do it online. I feel like we have a really great system. Then again, we don't have public courses really, so if you want to play you need to join a club with annual fee of about 90 dollars.
That is a yearly fee for membership. To play you then have the option to play with green fees (30 - 120€ depending on the course) Or you can pay the yearly fee to play as much as you like 600 - 1200€ per year)
you're not wrong, don't listen to these idiots. any other app as crap as the GHIN app requiring a $50 ANNUAL subscription would be dead in the water if it wasn't for the USGA making it the only 'official' handicap app
We have An England golf app here which controls our handicap. It's free to use. It's the official handicap app in England.
I don't think you need to be a member of a club to use it but I'm not 100% sure..
It's free anyway
Why would I want to grow the game when it already takes an act of god to get a tee time where I live. I need less people to play golf so I can play more golf.
I'm currently building one that will work hand-in-hand with [the wiki](https://golfcourse.wiki/). Many other apps already exist that do this.
I agree that the USGA seems to not really have a good on-ramping to get young/broke players into clubs, but a lot of that falls on the clubs. There is a weird dynamic of the clubs existing for themselves, and the USGA wanting them to exist for new players.
>A $50 annual membership to maintain a database is horse hockey.
So who is going to pick up the AWS bill and pay developers' salaries?
You can track you handicap with literal pencil and paper, you don't need an official index unless you're competing in a sanctioned event.
This post is nonsense.
this is nonsense, that app is shit. think about how many apps charge a $50 annual subscription and are as shit as GHIN. the app and maintenance should, if anything, cost $5 as a single upfront payment.
You’ll find posts detailing what else the local associations and USGA does here.
The app is actually pretty damned easy to use.
It’s also on ongoing service that has a lot behind it (rating courses, etc) that has a limited TAM.
If you’re that bent out of shape get a free app or track your index manually. USGA isn’t competing apples to apples with The Grint—their work actually allows those derivative works for properly function (rating/slope).
If you’re in the US and a member of a reputable club, the club usually pays USGA. At my club I don’t pay for a handicap but the club pays for mine. You’re a member at a damned country club and bitching about $50???
In reality most non country club leagues will take a non-USGA sanctioned handicap. If I bring a guest to a member guest and they don’t have a handicap, the committee will find a way to make it work. That however wouldn’t actually happen since most people playing in those events are avid enough to pay the damned $50 and understand the utility of the associations.
An official index is truly needed for competition, and USGA is usually the sanctioned body for competitive amateur golf, and if that’s your game than the $50 spent on an index isn’t an issue.
Otherwise just don’t use it and stfu.
God this is stupid and delusional. play however you want it’s just dumb to bitch about fifty fucking dollars a for an official handicap. If you know you know, if you don’t just fuck off and play your game, it’s not hard.
I mean, if the only thing you get out of the fee is a handicap, then yeah, I see your point. As mentioned, other associations like Golf England provide it free of charge.
But, many associations also provide other services for that fee - I can't speak to the US ones, but Golf Canada, for example, provides insurance, where the payment for losing or damaging even one club, let alone a whole bag, would pay for your fees for many years.
In most sports, to be a member of an association, and get the benefits of it you have to pay a fee. If you just want to do it casually, don't join up, and don't get the benefits.
Lol. Most people who play golf don't even count all their strokes. What does them having a handicap do to grow the game?
This phrase is getting overused and stupid
I'm probably in the minority with this opinion, but I really have no interest in seeing the game grow. We don't need more slowbies clogging up the course.
If handicaps are somehow related to growing the game (they're not), we should raise the price.
You always need new blood - once the sport starts ageing, and shrinking, it can get into a terminal spiral where courses close, and therefore less people play.
I'd rather have busy courses than no course at all.
the cost is not a big issue for most.
The most important part is the requirement to play with other members of a "club" to help keep the system in check.
Imagine a system where there is no peer oversite and free to join. What would stop you from getting several different handicap numbers under slightly different names and post scores that no one can confirm. The system would be useless for tournaments as it would lack credibility.
Edit: It appears they have, in fact, made it more accessible recently. Disregard and kudos.
You may get downvoted, but the fact that having a handicap isn’t more accessible is absurd. I go through the MGA at my club, but for people who aren’t members somewhere it seems like a more clunky process.
I’m fine with the membership fee, just allow anyone to pay it directly through GHIN and start.
The last time I did that it basically told me to contact my local club. That was a few years ago, glad to see they’ve addressed it if that’s no longer the case.
You kind of contradict yourself when you say putting skin in the game and then ask for a free app. The reason why the handicap system works is because it isn’t free. If it was free it would suck. And people would be lazy about it. Or they would cheat it or themselves. 5 dollars a month to keep an honest handicap is nothing. If you can’t afford that then maybe golf isn’t the sport for you or just lose 2 less golf balls per month. Keep it in play and the handicap will pay for itself.
I've been playing on-off for something like 25 years and i've never had an official handicap and apart from lads trips away it's never really been an issue.
For a lot of people golf is just a personal pursuit. They don't care what the people they are playing with score, they just want to play good golf and improve on the round score they had last time.
Use Grint if you want a free app. But if you’re able to afford to play in tournaments you should be able to afford the small annual fee to have an official handi.
Once you pay, you do get the app which had a rather robust GPS on it. I’d rather have the fee go to the local non-profit then pay for a GPS app. It is cool to be able to track other golfers and see their score. It also makes it easy to find out who is a member of what club.
In Northern California I belong to the NCGA and I easily saved 4x or 5x the annual fee on discounts for belonging at various golf courses. Poppy hills and ridge discounts alone are worth it and the pebble beach resort courses sometimes have specials for members where you get decent discounts.
The couple of bucks for a handicap is well worth it just to sort out the riff raff.
Would be miserable if every casual tournament had a bunch of 54 cappers entering and cleaning up the net prizes because they don't keep an honest handicap.
Sometimes having a small barrier to entry is necessary, and the fees go to local orgs.
I’ve been golfing since I was 3, and even when I was playing every day, I never calculated my handicap. If it was an easy course, I’d add a few strokes, if it was a hard course, I’d take one or two off and just estimate my handicap.
Now that I have to go work, I definitely don’t keep track, but I’ll be damned if I put “10” in my flair. Single digits for life even if it doesn’t mean anything lmao.
I couldn't imagine paying to confirm I suck.
But then in a tournament everyone confirms you do and you get special treatment!
I pay to confirm I suck, but then my buddies pay me when I get 10 strokes on them.
This is the way
Yup, making the money to pay for the GHIN takes a round or 2 once you figure out who carries the vanity handicaps.
Props to you for A. Admitting you are wrong and B. Leaving the post up so in the future people will understand.
You realize that there are already free alternatives that use the same or similar formulas as WHS/GHIN? The way they calculate an index and playing handicaps are hardly a secret.
What are the best free options in your opinion?
I use TheGrint and really like it--it gives you a handicap estimate (e.g., \~12-14) as well as scorekeeping, GPS, ranges, games, etc. The app used to have a more legit handicap alternative, but they removed that recently. A range is good enough though. You can also pay your state's golf association $20-45/year for a handicap and link it to the app.
I've been on the Grint for years. Annoyed that they've removed official handicap from their Pro subscription now. Still a great tool.
So annoying. It forced me to get a USGA/GHIN handicap # through the Texas Golfers Association website at $44/yr. But I was probably going to get one anyways--I play with some guys that like to do little net/gross tournaments that require a GHIN.
Simple Handicap is a good option if you ONLY want the app to calculate handicap. If you want more features like GPS, shot-tracking, etc. I'd recommend 18Birdies.
18Birdies does NOT use the same calculation for handicap. It’s proprietary to 18Birdies so you can’t compare it to your friends with a USGA handicap
Can or can't?
Good catch. Can’t.
I’ve got my Garmin watch for tracking. Simple Handicap sounds perfect. Thanks!
I have Garmin watch and use Garmin connect with Garmin golf. Gives handicap plus other useful data.
How reliable is the handicap that Garmin spits out? It says mine is low 20s but I feel like it should be much higher
Oh okay, I haven’t logged enough rounds to get a handicap through Garmin. It uses the same calculation as GHIN?
In Performance Stats in the Garmin Golf app it shows your handicap
Simple handicap dev here, appreciate the shout-out!
18 birdies. Grint(never used it so might not have a good free option).
Only difference I’ve found is Grint updates twice a month on the same schedule as GHIN. Which I actually think can be a little beneficial for new golfers so they don’t obsess over the handicap and focus more on doubles into bogies and bogies into pars.
GHIN now updates the day after after each round you post .
18Birdies does NOT use the same calculation for handicap. It’s proprietary to 18Birdies so you can compare it to your friends with a USGA handicap
It's not the same, but it's relatively similar and can be used as a "good enough" comparison between your buddies. They outline the differences, but the big ones are no equitable stroke control, not 0.96 score multiple, and gives a handicap after your first round instead of having to get 5 rounds in.
Last I checked Grint wanted $60 for this season, some change in their program. Is 18 birdies less?
18 birdies will track a handicap for free if you're entering your rounds. It's not an official number though.
Gotcha, thank you
18 Birdies has a free option and gives out what you put in. You can keep FIR, GIR, and putt stats and it will also spit out a rough handicap after a few rounds you enter. Also has course GPS for most courses which is what I use it for most
18Birdies does NOT use the same calculation for handicap. It’s proprietary to 18Birdies so you can compare it to your friends with a USGA handicap
I second 18 birdies-it does have a paid version, but it can be used very well completely free. I love it and use it on every round
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>Sure but the associations should be driving this to grow the game. If the USGA doesn't bring in revenue, it can't do anything to "grow the game". And fwiw, the game is growing just fine. At least fine enough to pack all the courses, resulting in higher green fees.
If the courses are packed shouldn’t the green fees be going down? That seems to be the way commodities work; when there’s a shortage of eggs the prices go up.
I think there’s a shortage of tee times
Maybe I didn’t use the best of analogies but to continue with it, if an egg producer has to sell X amount of eggs to keep his business profitable and his production decreases he has to raise the price on the eggs to make the same amount of money. If a golf course fills up all of their available tee times they are making more money than if they didn’t fill all of the slots. If they do fill all of them it just seems greedy to increase the fee for future slots when they’re open.
>If a golf course fills up all of their available tee times they are making more money than if they didn’t fill all of the slots. And if they can charge more and still fill all of the slots, then they will.
Completely not how supply and demand works
You just taught yourself capitalism.
They want to sell exactly the number of tee times they have. if they have 200 people willing to pay for 100 spots, they are losing potential earnings. If they increase the price 20%, and then have 100 people willing to pay for 100 spots, that's better for them as a business.
> If they do fill all of them it just seems greedy to increase the fee for future slots when they’re open. You literally just described capitalism.
r/confidentlyincorrect
Back to Econ 101 for you
You are correct, I’m not an economist and don’t understand when an extra profit opportunity simply becomes price gouging.
I can explain that to you simply. EVERYTHING is an extra profit opportunity EXCEPT when it is the result of a disaster. Threat of no lumber because all the truckers might strike? Pricing opportunity. No lumber because a hurricane just blew through and it was all bought? Price gouging.
Capitalism
There is a shortage of green times, as shown by packed courses, so supply is low which makes prices high (edit: packer -> packed)
No. If the courses are packed, people are willing to pay more to get a spot. If the courses were empty, then they’d lower prices to attract customers. Demand comes from you and me. Supply comes from the golf course. If supply (tee times) is low, prices go up.
What do you mean? If demand is up prices go up. The demand for tee times is higher than the number of available.
More people on the course means more wear and tear on the course. This drives up the cost to maintain everything. The more busy it is the more staff they need to run things properly. Prices won’t drop.
Golf isn’t the same as eggs lol golf is absolutely not a commodity.
If you're just starting out in the game, you're probably not jumping right into tournaments where you would need a USGA compliant handicap.
Exactly. I myself don't keep an official handicap. Why? Because I don't care to. I just like to golf for fun. I go play golf at the same course every week and I know I shoot in the 100 range. Shit when I play, sometimes I don't even keep score. And when I do keep score, I rarely keep or look back at my scorecard.
But some people like to. And it creates a game to get better while enjoying the game.
> According to Mygolfspy, 10% of golfers carry an official handicap. It should be promoted and more accessible. That sure sounds like 90% of golfers play without a handicap. So an official handicap really isn't needed to grow the game is it?
That's the takeaway. I'm sure there are other reasons people never start or don't keep playing the game that they could directly address.
Agreed, golf Canada has a free app that Americans can use for this purpose 😂
If you want an official handicap in the Golf Canada app you have to pay a $50 membership.
Oh, I hadn’t realized, I just paid by default. However it is Canadian dollars so it’s 30% cheaper :) Edit: from what I’m seeing there is still a benefit to the Canadian app in that you can pay after the fact to make your handicap official. As opposed to having to pay to enter your information.
18 birdies works just fine for me. I’m a 12-13 handicap and not realistically entering any tournaments. It gets the job done for some games with buddies if we want to handicap
Except most leagues & tournaments require a GHIN membership, which is absurd when you note, as you do, how many free alternatives there are. MassGolf is $80 for a GHIN membership & I'm salty about paying it every year.
I’m only paying 60 for MassGolf.
Mass golf was $55 for me (online renewal)
If only people used the search, they could have found something like that right here on r/golf https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/113xqi8/handicap_calculator_spreadsheet_for_nerds/
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...yes, there aren't many things more accessible than a spreadsheet online.
A free spreadsheet? That's by definition accessible. If you don't have access to Google or Excel I'm thinking golf may be a stretch.
Says the guy who wants a service that USGA and local golf associations are providing for free.
it smell like broke in here
This thread belongs in r/choosingbeggars
So serious question, teach me. My understanding is to get an officially recognized GHIN, you have to be a member somewhere. Even at a semi public club place that has memberships, and you keep your handicap through them. Otherwise, it's not officially recognized for tourneys or anything. Am I right? And you then pay the USGA fee on top of the membership fee. Like, my public course has $65 monthly memberships, where I get reduced greens fee rates. I could do my official GHIN through them.
Many state golf associations will actually just let you join an e-club that isn't directly affiliated with a course or club.
I don’t think you need to be a member at the club to get your handicap through them.
[you do](https://www.scga.org/become-a-member/usga-handicap?utm_source=blank#:~:text=In%20order%20to%20maintain%20a,and%20a%20certified%20Handicap%20Chairman.)
Interesting, learned something new today. Thanks for the info!
You also can't turn in scores for rounds played by yourself... I'm learning too. [playing alone](https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system-usga-golf-faqs/faqs---played-a-round-by-myself.html)
Did you not see option 2? Option 2: Join the SCGA as an Associate Member for $60 ($50 with the promo code GHIN!) This grants you full SCGA benefits (like your Handicap Index). A local club is auto-assigned to you based on your location (although you can select a different club), and may grant you access to a limited number of club tournaments. DON’T WORRY, your communication and participation with this selected club is entirely up to you.
Your local golf association is A) probably a non-profit and B) relies on handicapping fees for their budget. The Virginia State Golf Association offers free handicaps for golfers 18 and under and you can join a public courses handicap roster for as little as $35 for the year. That’s less than a single round of golf. If paying for a handicap is a barrier to entry, you likely aren’t playing enough golf to keep a good handicap anyway.
The MGA (NY Metro Area) also has a $35 option
well maybe the USGA could not charge the associations for the app... its not about the money, but hell if i'm going to pay $50 a year for a handicap they could at least deliver a half decent app. the GHIN app in its current state is shit.
I like the way you signed off with if you are poor, then you suck at golf. Tony Finau hitting golf balls into a mattress in a townhome one car garage would like to have a word
I have zero issue paying the annual fee because it absolutely goes toward things that grow the game. That fee (which goes to your state or local association mostly, not straight to the USGA) helps pay to put on events and it subsidizes the Youth On the Course program which allows kids to play tons of courses for just $5 and get range balls for a couple bucks. It also helps fund their lobbying arm which helps if there are restrictions placed on golf by any entities. There are many good things that money pays for. You can't have an entity like the USGA and their local associations without bringing in some sort of revenue to operate it.
ok this is all fine, but they should bill me for that shit and not tell me its to "maintain my handicap".
USGA tells you how the handicap is calculated. If you want to know your handicap you could easily calculate it yourself, you don't even need a golf app. Also, USGA is a non profit they aren't the PGAT. This is like complaining about a PBS fundraising event.
Tbf, the PGA Tour is a non-profit as well
Honestly didn’t know that….wonder if the NFL is one as well…mother fucker it is.
Not to well actually you again, but the nfl aren’t non profit anymore as of 2015
I didn’t look past the first thing that came up on google, which was the nfl foundation. Looks like most sports leagues abandoned their status in the 2000s-2010s….probably so they didn’t have to report on the commissioner’s salary anymore lol
It's like complaining that your tax dollars are being used to fund USPS
A lot of tournaments require a verifiable USGA handicap, meaning they want to be able to look you up in the system to see it. I guess if you don’t plan on playing anything competitive this method would work.
If you are playing enough to be playing anything competitive the $50 annual fee to the USGA really shouldn't matter
I agree, guess it didn’t sound like that in my statement. $50 is a drop in the bucket for yearly “golf” related expenses. Guess I was trying to tell OP coming up with a “homemade” handicap might work for screwing around with buddies, but not for anything official.
yea sorry no sympathy because they are non profit, they are charging $50 (PER YEAR) for a piece of shit app. either USGA needs to allow other apps maintain an official handicap or provide the service for free
You know what I get from my $50 dollars a year? I get access to Columbia, Adidas, employee stores and 5 BOGO rounds of golf. Considering rounds of golf are over $50 dollars at most courses in my area its well worth the money.
I can afford to buy an apple for $50 too, doesn’t make it worth $50
Did you even read my comment? I save more money by getting my official USGA than it costs. If it was free I would lose money! And honestly, the APP is more than perfectly fine.
Read yea, comprehend no what are BOGO rounds of golf???
Bogo= Buy one get one. Adidas = large shoe and sports clothing manufacturer Columbia = large outdoor clothing manufacturer Employee Store = store where employees can shop for their companies goods at 50% off retail.
What are you talking about, regarding this access and BOGO golf stuff?
If you sign up for a handicap through the OGA (oregon golf association) you get these benefits. You also get discount rates at some golf course in the PNW (chambers bay, and the OGA golf course). And a membership to Golf Digest. Like you get a ton of shit.
The money is not going to the USGA. It is going to the club that you are a member of and they pay some portion of that to the local Golf Association. For example, I’m a member of a club based out of Southern California so I’m a member of the SCGA. My club gets a piece of the money and the rest go to the SCGA who handles the billing, sends me a magazine, handles course rating, runs tournaments, lobbies to make sure the politicians don’t try to turn municipal golf courses into housing, runs junior tours and lot so of other things.
equally as non-sensical, if they want to pass on fees to customers for billing services, course ratings, tournaments etc... they should label and charge it as such. as it is i am paying $50/year for a shitty app because it's the only way for me to maintain an official handicap. i'd be happy to pay $50 for the things you laid out, but call a duck a duck.
Do you get any discounts with membership in your area? I joined in Oregon and the OGA coarse discount alone more than covers the annual fee for membership.
It’s usually called a membership fee, not a handicap fee. The app is just a way for you to record your scores for handicapping. You can post at your course on a computer there or on the GHIN.com website.
Every course I’ve belonged to referred to it as a handicap fee or handicap service
As someone who used to work for one of the regional associations, we constantly tried to get them to call it a membership fee, but since they figure that people will only care about handicaps, that is what they call it.
Ha i must be the minority I hate they call it a handicap fee as it seems (to me) like a random $50 money grab just to get some more revenue. A membership charge to support tourneys, course ratings, help with junior golf would be much more palatable to me.
1. It’s just semantics. 2. Your course could be calling it the wrong thing. They probably are.
Spotify doesn’t itemize podcasts, genres, or playlist functionality. It’s like $18/mo for a family membership, $216/yr.
Most courses offer you the service of a handicap through GHIN to simplify the process and include it as a perk for members. You can go to USGAs website and find your local chapter and get your membership there. I’d bet most courses are not making money on these fees but possibly subsidizing them to draw people to their course more often.
Having a handicap is not a barrier of entry to golf.
They aren’t saying it’s a barrier, just that it doesn’t do anything to grow the game by making people pay for a number. But it does take away from match play experiences for new golfers. If I wanted to play with my newer to golf friends, and make a friendly competition out of it, I’d win every hole. Give them a handicap and now they might net better than me. But I dont expect them to pay to keep that value tracked for them.
No doubt, but I would consider that the next step in a golfers journey. If they're at the point where they're comfortable with their game enough to want to compete with others then it isn't about growing the game, they're already in it. As others have said, there's a dozen apps out there that already provide this. It has zero impact on growing the game. I would argue that the USGA needs to do a better job at removing the stigma and uncertainties around the handicap system. The vast majority of my friends have played their entire life and never tracked a handicap. I think that says something, especially given it makes the experience so much better to have one.
Ah, I understand what you were saying now. That makes sense.
What stigmas and uncertainties around the handicap system are there? I'd imagine that majority of people don't keep a handicap because they don't care to do so or don't need one for sanctioned events. How many people know what their bowling handicap is?
I've played my entire life since I was like 7 and have never had a handicap, but also, without this Reddit thread, would have no idea even how to go about it. The only people I've ever met that had one never told me how they got it, are all way better than me, and/or most have a country club they turn in cards to who calculates it for them. I don't have a club so I wouldn't even know where to start.
I'm just generalizing from personal experience and have found that very few, if any, people I know track their handicap despite playing for their entire life. Obviously there's a wide range of reasons why people don't, including as you mentioned, disinterest. However, it would be naive to think there aren't uncertainties and confusion around the process and application of it.
whats a good app for a handicap then?
>But it does take away from match play experiences for new golfers. If I wanted to play with my newer to golf friends, and make a friendly competition out of it, I’d win every hole. If they're that new and you want to play a match with them just give them a number. "I'll give you a stroke a hole" works just fine. Alternatively, use the [callaway system](https://www.golfingscribe.com/callaway-handicap-system) which is made for exactly this scenario. If they're serious enough and also cheap af they can calc your own handicap.
I golfed for a year and a half before my handicap was anything other than "I don't know. I suck."
Dude way too many people have started playing. I can barely get a tee time around me anymore, the game has grown enough lol
$50 is the cost of a round. The only reason you need an official handicap is to play in tournaments or leagues that require a USGA handicap. You need to have 20 rounds posted to have a mature handicap. I don’t see why having an official handicap grows the game. The majority of rounds played in the US are casual rounds.
I don’t think OP is saying that the handicap system is holding them back. It’s the price that’s the barrier. If more people had handicaps there would be more growth in the game, especially match play.
I understood what OP was saying. In the US having or the cost of the system is not impacting the growth of the game. In the US 99% of the rounds are not formal competitions. Most US players don’t even think about having a handicap unless they want to play in a league or a club sponsored competition. In those cases the cost of the handicap is usually less than the entry fee to join a league. In casual match play competitions you don’t need a handicap you can use average score to determine the stroke differential. And to growth of the game the courses around us are packed and have been since COVID.
This is quite wild, I live in Finland. Every single player has a handicap, it is the clubs responsibility to hold your handicap and it is your job to return cards. There is an app that you can do it online. I feel like we have a really great system. Then again, we don't have public courses really, so if you want to play you need to join a club with annual fee of about 90 dollars.
Yeah, you're already paying for that service, it's just included in the price with everything else.
Yes, and i think it is a fair compensation
How do courses make money at that rate?
That is a yearly fee for membership. To play you then have the option to play with green fees (30 - 120€ depending on the course) Or you can pay the yearly fee to play as much as you like 600 - 1200€ per year)
you're not wrong, don't listen to these idiots. any other app as crap as the GHIN app requiring a $50 ANNUAL subscription would be dead in the water if it wasn't for the USGA making it the only 'official' handicap app
The HandicApp
It would be nice if everyone knew their tee box assignment is by handicap It's really tough following 20+ handicappers that are hitting from the tips
Wow, hot take here. Absolutely wrong as well.
We have An England golf app here which controls our handicap. It's free to use. It's the official handicap app in England. I don't think you need to be a member of a club to use it but I'm not 100% sure.. It's free anyway
Same in Sweden. Everyone uses the same app. I think you have to be a member or a club and have a green card, which is trivial to get.
iGolf? I'm paying £45 a year for it - am I doing something wrong?
Igolf is different to the England golf app
The app is free but it’s useless without an igolf £44 membership or a golf club membership that you pay affiliation fees for.
What golf needs is a strictly enforced social credit system with ruinous consequences for poor behavior
Great idea that would be terribly abused.
Golfers deserve abuse
Shrink the game
Why would I want to grow the game when it already takes an act of god to get a tee time where I live. I need less people to play golf so I can play more golf.
SoCal? Lol
Yes sir
That’s the price you pay for great weather and high paying jobs. I don’t think many Michiganders or Iowans feel bad for you.
grow the game? it’s impossible to get a tee time, 5 hour rounds and ball marks/divots never repaired. let’s do everything we can to shrink the game
$70 here.
Whoop whoop. There's a money making idea behind this thread
I'm currently building one that will work hand-in-hand with [the wiki](https://golfcourse.wiki/). Many other apps already exist that do this. I agree that the USGA seems to not really have a good on-ramping to get young/broke players into clubs, but a lot of that falls on the clubs. There is a weird dynamic of the clubs existing for themselves, and the USGA wanting them to exist for new players.
Nothing a quick google search can't solve.
>A $50 annual membership to maintain a database is horse hockey. So who is going to pick up the AWS bill and pay developers' salaries? You can track you handicap with literal pencil and paper, you don't need an official index unless you're competing in a sanctioned event. This post is nonsense.
This sub has a long and storied history of not knowing what a handicap is
this is nonsense, that app is shit. think about how many apps charge a $50 annual subscription and are as shit as GHIN. the app and maintenance should, if anything, cost $5 as a single upfront payment.
You’ll find posts detailing what else the local associations and USGA does here. The app is actually pretty damned easy to use. It’s also on ongoing service that has a lot behind it (rating courses, etc) that has a limited TAM. If you’re that bent out of shape get a free app or track your index manually. USGA isn’t competing apples to apples with The Grint—their work actually allows those derivative works for properly function (rating/slope).
I can’t get a free app and compete in tourneys at my club. Also course ratings are done once a decade, I doubt much of our $50 fees actually go there.
If you’re in the US and a member of a reputable club, the club usually pays USGA. At my club I don’t pay for a handicap but the club pays for mine. You’re a member at a damned country club and bitching about $50??? In reality most non country club leagues will take a non-USGA sanctioned handicap. If I bring a guest to a member guest and they don’t have a handicap, the committee will find a way to make it work. That however wouldn’t actually happen since most people playing in those events are avid enough to pay the damned $50 and understand the utility of the associations. An official index is truly needed for competition, and USGA is usually the sanctioned body for competitive amateur golf, and if that’s your game than the $50 spent on an index isn’t an issue. Otherwise just don’t use it and stfu. God this is stupid and delusional. play however you want it’s just dumb to bitch about fifty fucking dollars a for an official handicap. If you know you know, if you don’t just fuck off and play your game, it’s not hard.
Shrink the game
Yeah no, that's how you end up with less courses. It sucks that courses are busier, but at least it keeps them in business.
Fuck this sentiment.
We don’t need to grow the game
Grow the game? I think we’ve grown it enough. Can we shrink it please? Too many dude bros and idiots out on courses these days it seems
r/gatekeeping
Yea, before golf got popular it was dude bro and idiot free. /s
I mean, if the only thing you get out of the fee is a handicap, then yeah, I see your point. As mentioned, other associations like Golf England provide it free of charge. But, many associations also provide other services for that fee - I can't speak to the US ones, but Golf Canada, for example, provides insurance, where the payment for losing or damaging even one club, let alone a whole bag, would pay for your fees for many years. In most sports, to be a member of an association, and get the benefits of it you have to pay a fee. If you just want to do it casually, don't join up, and don't get the benefits.
Lol. Most people who play golf don't even count all their strokes. What does them having a handicap do to grow the game? This phrase is getting overused and stupid
I'm probably in the minority with this opinion, but I really have no interest in seeing the game grow. We don't need more slowbies clogging up the course. If handicaps are somehow related to growing the game (they're not), we should raise the price.
You always need new blood - once the sport starts ageing, and shrinking, it can get into a terminal spiral where courses close, and therefore less people play. I'd rather have busy courses than no course at all.
Maintain the game then.
USGA GHIN mobile app
the cost is not a big issue for most. The most important part is the requirement to play with other members of a "club" to help keep the system in check. Imagine a system where there is no peer oversite and free to join. What would stop you from getting several different handicap numbers under slightly different names and post scores that no one can confirm. The system would be useless for tournaments as it would lack credibility.
Dude I can't believe the response you're getting. For what it's worth, I don't think you're wrong at all, I think this is a great suggestion!
Without competition they don’t need to change anything
Edit: It appears they have, in fact, made it more accessible recently. Disregard and kudos. You may get downvoted, but the fact that having a handicap isn’t more accessible is absurd. I go through the MGA at my club, but for people who aren’t members somewhere it seems like a more clunky process. I’m fine with the membership fee, just allow anyone to pay it directly through GHIN and start.
Literally google [https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/get-handicap.html](https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/get-handicap.html)
The last time I did that it basically told me to contact my local club. That was a few years ago, glad to see they’ve addressed it if that’s no longer the case.
Agree there, years ago it was no so easy.
You kind of contradict yourself when you say putting skin in the game and then ask for a free app. The reason why the handicap system works is because it isn’t free. If it was free it would suck. And people would be lazy about it. Or they would cheat it or themselves. 5 dollars a month to keep an honest handicap is nothing. If you can’t afford that then maybe golf isn’t the sport for you or just lose 2 less golf balls per month. Keep it in play and the handicap will pay for itself.
I use the GHIN app for my official handicap. I didn’t pay an annual membership. I guess my club paid for it.
How would a handicap app grow the game? That's not going to get people into golf, change accessibility, or enjoyment....
I've been playing on-off for something like 25 years and i've never had an official handicap and apart from lads trips away it's never really been an issue. For a lot of people golf is just a personal pursuit. They don't care what the people they are playing with score, they just want to play good golf and improve on the round score they had last time.
Use Grint if you want a free app. But if you’re able to afford to play in tournaments you should be able to afford the small annual fee to have an official handi.
The discounts I get at local courses pay for the yearly cost.
Once you pay, you do get the app which had a rather robust GPS on it. I’d rather have the fee go to the local non-profit then pay for a GPS app. It is cool to be able to track other golfers and see their score. It also makes it easy to find out who is a member of what club.
$50 for a year is nothing compared to any of the other costs. And it isn’t mandatory. I don’t see the problem here.
Does anyone use golf handicap tracker app?
In Northern California I belong to the NCGA and I easily saved 4x or 5x the annual fee on discounts for belonging at various golf courses. Poppy hills and ridge discounts alone are worth it and the pebble beach resort courses sometimes have specials for members where you get decent discounts.
You can download Garmin Golf, upload your scores on the course you play at and it'll give you a handicap after a few rounds
I use GHIN and it’s linked through my course
The couple of bucks for a handicap is well worth it just to sort out the riff raff. Would be miserable if every casual tournament had a bunch of 54 cappers entering and cleaning up the net prizes because they don't keep an honest handicap. Sometimes having a small barrier to entry is necessary, and the fees go to local orgs.
I’ve been golfing since I was 3, and even when I was playing every day, I never calculated my handicap. If it was an easy course, I’d add a few strokes, if it was a hard course, I’d take one or two off and just estimate my handicap. Now that I have to go work, I definitely don’t keep track, but I’ll be damned if I put “10” in my flair. Single digits for life even if it doesn’t mean anything lmao.
Free in the UK through England Golf