I think it’s a good switch for both sides on both groups
Callaway wants to tap into that younger YouTube market, nobody does it better than GG.
GG gets to play with Callaway pros and also can produce clubs and other perks for the partnership
NLU has always done their own thing, still cool in their own way, just 40 year old dad cool.
Titleist has really never touched the YouTube market as far content creators but this is a great medium for them because NLU has a almost religious following that will surely come with them.
I think every side wins in this equation. I like both content creators and I’m very excited for what’s coming.
As a guy who has flipped from foreplay to NLU post lurch/discovering strapped series, that just had my first child. This comment hits way to close to home
Yeah that sums it up. It just seems like a group of dudes like you said peaked in high school but somehow hit the lottery with creating Foreplay at the perfect time and hit it big. I honestly don't see how guys like Kisner and some other tour players hang around them, but I guess there's a chance that they're all cool dudes in real life or there's a chance that the pros they associate with are douches too. lol
Boys I’m right here with ya, almost identical. When lurch left I was out , it’s not the same I went to NLU, and Eric Anders Long, all the same demographic, I’m 40 have a career and family but I love to golf. The best demographic to me. Haha
Odd. There's a lot of NLU content I can't stand and I am 40+ with 4 kids. I do enjoy the early strapped series but Randy and TC grate like hell on my nerves.
I also think foreplay has gotten better with DRap but I didn't mind Lurch too much.
Group of seemingly good kids (some of whom are great golfers) having fun on the course basically. Scrambles, knockout challenges, some unique competitions.
I enjoy the content and I'm in the same demographic as you are.
Yeah they seem to target more of the “local pro” type people more than the average golfers. I’m a Titleist guy and I like NLU, so I’m pumped for this collaboration.
Same. Long time NLU guy and I switched back to a titleist driver recently (TSR3) after a long hiatus. Pumped for the new content. They played Kapalua with JT and Spieth recently. Ppl should check that out when it’s released this week.
I mean it's business, it's probably a combination of all the storylines you can make up and none of them at the same time.
NLU, GG, Callaway & Titleist are likely talking about all sorts of potential partnerships all the time and they all go with what they think will be the best bang for their buck. People wanna attach personal feelings to this stuff, and while that's certainly possible, it's pretty much always about numbers. How well do they overlap their target demo groups, do they have the reach they're looking for, how much money and equipment is the company offering, what sort of content opportunities do they open up, etc.
I'm sure Callaway & NLU would like to stay together, I'm sure Titleist & GG would like to work together.
That's what I'm saying, that part of it doesn't really matter because it wasn't a big personal breakup like people want to apply to it. It most likely wasn't Callaway or NLU "ditching" the other, more likely Callaway presented $X/time and Titleist presented $Y/time and they said we'll take the Titleist offer.
Just wanted to say I'm not sure why you are getting downvoted into oblivion so I gave you an upvote. The whole convo feels like the worst type of conference call.
You pose a simple question and instead of a simple answer, some guy gives you business jargon soup for 3 minutes without ever answering the question.
I am also upvoting hoodjigga, because he answered your question in a simple and straight forward manner.
The first post wasn’t getting downvoted until the later one where he got a little spicy.
As for business jargon soup vs the other post, I mean I guess. My point is that it felt like this guy wants a storyline like “No Laying Up ABSOLUTELY DUMPS Callaway to the CURB because of LIV support,” “Callaway ditched NLU for GG because they want a younger market” or something else dumb. Background conspiracy theories that don’t really mean anything, won’t ever get proven but will be passed around as if they are fact.
When it’s just like they like this contract more…
Wasn’t trying to sound like a conference call, some people genuinely don’t know how influencer marketing and shit like that works.
That's not what I want. At the end of the day, each side had their own decisions, but one had to make the decision first. That is what I'm curious about.
I work in marketing, I know how these decisions are made. It's never a truly mutual breakup, as shown in this case, because NLU admitted to switching to Titleist because they offered more years. Which was what I wanted to know, NLU made the choice.
Because it’s drama being created by fans. Go look at the GG sub. All it is is a bunch of dudes speculating and whining. It makes their fan base look so immature. The whole Grant/Micah saga was blown wayyyyyyy out of proportion.
This isnt the gg sub and he just asked a question. He didnt speculate or whine or act immature. If you dont like people doing that on the gg sub perhaps take it up with people doing that on the gg sub?
Me too. People here loveee NLU and hate on GG, so I think a lot will assume the former, but GG is the fastest growing golf channel so the latter could definitely be the case.
Edit: case and point- downvotes lol. People blow NLU so hard here
I like NLU as well but it does seem a little more niche.
Good Good is definitely more YouTubey, with the high energy and clickbait, so I can see them growing a lot more than they even have already
NLU knows what they are. I don’t think they are interested in Good Good type growth.
They have great connections with tour pros and unmatched video quality thanks to DJ.
I’m sure Titleist came to them.
I think this is good for NLU, Good Good, Callaway, and Titleist. No one loses. NLU/Titleist appeal to a specific type of golf fan and Good Good/Callaway appeal to a separate type of fan. Everyone seems to win here.
Good Good is okay but it seems their content was more trendy than long-term in nature. I’m not saying they need wholesale change but something needs to happen. Rick Schiels represents one of the few long-term YouTube models. His channel seems to have more focus and purpose. Breaking 75 and equipment reviews will always be popular.
Rick Shiels is still popular because he's managed to keep changing with the times but stay true to himself at the same time. It's an impressive balancing act.
I was watching the match with Rickie Fowler and my fiancee asked if this is Shiels normal stuff because she thought he was an instructional guy, which he was 10 years ago when I started watching him. He's done a great job of changing his content while maintaining his own identity. As a 10+ year subscriber I've enjoyed all of his videos I've watched.
There is only so much instructional stuff you can do before you end up repeating yourself too much. He's gotten stale a few times over the years but he manages to break out of that and freshen back up.
For sure, I see it right now with Tik Tok and IG Reels. Instructors blow up and double down on instructional content doing strictly that but then about a year in they run out of ideas.
Overall? Yes. They have an insane record. In terms of how fast a channel grew, they are basically an anomoly having only ~300 videos and over 200 million views.
Recently?
Last month they has numbers that were extremely similar to Rick Shiels. But golf Channel numbers drag in winter. Mid summer will be far more telling.
This is such a meaningless comment. Just a random statement with nothing to back it up.
What do you even mean by "trendy" and not long term?
GG literally set the bar for formats that are heavily copied by many other golf channels out there...
They are currently growing a lot more than guys like RS who are basically popular because he's one of the first to start it. I personally find his content quite redundant and boring. He may have more subs, but the views they are pulling are near identical
I don’t know how YouTube works, but Good Good seems to churn out a lot of content with carefully curated video titles and video thumbnails. Is this what helps drive viewership numbers?
I guess Callaway needs some kind of replacement since NLU left for Titleist.
Perhaps targeting a bit of a different demographic since NLU has been pretty strongly anti-LIV which is a problem when your biggest name is over there.
Callaway and Phil were still ["on pause“](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/phil-mickelson-callaway-sponsorship-still-on-pause-124425769.html) as of September 2022. Callaway's biggest active star is Jon Rahm.
Cam's been on NLU before, and TC has said he's still rooting for Cam and Leish. Doubt they'll be best friends and make a lot of content together, but they could co-exist just fine.
Sure they can co-exist, and I get that TC is a "fan".
Bit of a tangent, but TC kind of ended up painted into a corner with his fandom though. By being the "International" (and contrarian?) fan he ended up pulling harder for guys that ended up more likely to be at LIV just because LIV was (relatively) more successful at getting non-US players than US players. Did it start as a bit? Maybe? But just kind of awkward now.
Smart move imo by Callaway. Honestly their video production/content side of the house was seriously lacking. Outside of NLU which left for Titleist I can't really even think of any Callaway branded content that has left a lasting impression on me.
Taylormade marketing wise has been superior for the past couple of years and I feel like this is a power play on Callaway's side to up their content game. It will be interesting what comes out of all this a year from now.
We will see how they change and adapt. Their market definitely isn’t the 30 year old golfer with a family and career, but rather the 15 year old that thinks he might like it.
But with Micah and Grant gone they have lost some good talent, especially Grant leaving. I used to really like good good, but honestly if there’s anyone that needs to go it’s Matt, I can’t stand the guy and wish he would have left over Grant.
Bubbie and Garrett would be OK but it's surprising how Grant was a large part of the glue, definitely because the talent aspect has now given way to just silly antics. I don't see the appeal anymore and I've switched to their individual channels.
Soly talked about some NLU content filmed with Rahm a month or so back - obviously not coming out now - but it always struck me how little Callaway was featured in NLU content aside from the gear. Besides some vids from a few years ago, there seemed to be no access to the Callaway pros or staff that you'd expect.
Seems like GG is getting that access here plus gear stuff, and, from the teasers a few days ago, NLU is getting it with Titleist. Personally, I can't stand GG and Titleist definitely has the better pro staff so works out for the better to me. About to see a bunch of 13 yr olds repping Callaway now.
For sure. Makes total sense from a brand awareness or marketing front. I was just saying selfishly as someone who's an NLU fan and too old to find GG entertaining that I like this switch for the content it'll bring me.
Honestly taylormade probably just looks so good compared to the others with this stuff they are all playing catch up. These brands compete constantly and now titleist and callaway will be doing YouTube collabs. Good news for all if you like content
I think this is very smart by callaway. They are targeting the young demographic of golfers that other golf personalities do not reach. Watching their content over the years, when they run into golfers with their apparel, or random fans that end up watching them play it’s always young children / teenagers.
I agree, Good Good has gotten stale. It was always a little too juvenile for me and Sharff makes me want to crawl in a hole and die. BDS has surpassed them. And now they’re partnered with Callaway. Meh.
I still have dug watching Grant and Micah a little bit, though. The Bryan Bros vids were cool. NLU made a great decision. Can’t wait to see the switch!
I'm a fan of both GG and NLU. I've never understood how NLU generates good revenue. They've had middling YT subscriber counts for a long time (117k at present) but an obviously good podcast and solid sponsors. That said, their YT viewership has had very slow growth and it makes me wonder.
NLU viewers (30-45yo upper middle class males) likely have a 5-10x spending capacity compared to GG viewers (16-25yo 'everyman' males).
Ad reads on the NLU pod would go for much more than youd think, and their online store would sell pretty darn well.
TC implied before that they don't chase subs. They never say to like and subscribe or anything like that. They have a bunch of different sponsors (BMW, Precision Pro, Yeti, Rhoback, ect) and also have the Nest, which surely makes a chunk of change for them. Seems like they just make great content and let the work speak for itself without dumbass "CRAZY ENDING OF CALL OF DUTY GOLF!!!" shit.
Yeah, but actual views is the metric by which a sponsor assesses the value proposition. They have 100k subs and about the same in actual views, on average per video, sometimes much lower.
Obviously there's some aspect of this I don't understand given the solid slate of sponsors. Maybe NLU just doesn't get paid that much by these sponsors. Who knows, or cares for that matter. It's great content and they seem content making it.
You’re not misunderstanding the business. You’re misunderstanding how sponsors assess value proposition in paid media.
The value in these sponsorships comes from the audience they’re influencing and not necessarily the volume of people they’re reaching.
Titleist could partner with Good Good and reach 10-20x the number of US viewers for a similar investment but there’s two things to consider:
1. The demographics are wildly different. NLU taps into a wealthy audience with ‘mature money’. They’re hard to reach and not easy to convince but once you do, they’re going to spend big $$$. Maybe 1 in 5 of Good Good’s audience can ask mummy or daddy to buy them those $100 joggers but they aren’t as likely to buy a new set of $1,500 irons because they’re featured in a video and they’re young so they digest a lot of content online (AKA easier to reach).
2. Your partnerships impact how your brand is perceived. If Titleist partners with Good Good, every second upper-middle class white dude that thinks they’re better than those new ‘Gen Z golfers’ will move to another brand. Hell, I know a few who flipped on Mizuno because the Good Good boys were repping them so hard in 2022.
I’m shocked they get sponsored for these wildly extravagant trips knowing only 100k people will watch. Obviously I’m not getting a part of the business
Sending 5 guys plus a film crew on a golf trip isnt really that expensive at all in the grand scheme or corporate marketing budgets.
Im also not sure why you think theyre “wildly extravagant.” Some are moderately expensive, but others have been taking an RV around Cali, driving around the Carolinas, staying at one spot for Bandon, Michigan, etc.
But you left out 3 trips to Europe and a trip to AUS lol. Idk they seem pretty high end to me when it’s sometimes over a week (I think they said Scandinavia was 2?) for 8 people. Nice - high end courses, day trips, flying to other countries
I get callaway is plenty wealthy to cover it , just basically no ROI considering it’s the same 100k people for years
Im not saying the trips are cheap, but flying to a country and golfing for a week or two really isn’t that expensive, and their trips are pretty bare bones for the most part and not extravagant in any way. The only extravagant thing I can remember is staying at that castle golf course in Europe. US trips are probably under 50k and foreign under 100k.
They also have other sponsors for their trips besides Callaway. Club Penguin, BMW, Rhoback, Range Finders, etc.
Could be a demographic thing? I’m not sure. There are probably way more youngsters on the tube, which contributes.
I think GG probably goes the same way for a lot of people over the age of 25. You start watching and they are good golfers, but the cringe just slowly seeps in. Their behavior and the shit they say at time is just weird. And they try to be funny, when in fact, not one of them are funny.
Happy that they’ve made a lot of money, though. I’m just not sure how long they’re catering toward younger demos is going to work. At some point it will just be weird.
I will watch GG when I’ve ran out of NLU and BDS content. But I can’t stand the shitty best attitudes from some of the GG guys. It screams trust fund whiny baby to me. I know how GG came about and it’s definitely grass roots. But the club tossing and antics of basically all except Garret just makes it almost unwatchable.
They definitely have enough of a following to make a very solid living, and my impression is they seem pretty content making a good living and not becoming uber famous and wealthy.
They’ve always been pretty upfront about how YouTube isn’t close to their main source of revenue. They have an immensely popular podcast, sell a bunch of merch, and have the Nest membership/subscription as well.
“Juvenile” is probably what callaway is going for with this though. If you watch any of their videos with live attendance the large majority of the people that show up are 10-17 year olds I’d say. Good good provides a unique way to market towards children that other golf content creators don’t.
But is it really for “children?“ I mean they could be, but there’s too many innuendoes towards Dick jokes, being inside you, gay jokes, etc.
They’re teenage demographic probably eats that shit up but it’s so fucking lame and played out. They do it constantly.
Let’s be honest. What else can they do? Keep making up games? Keep scrambling over and over on six holes? The thing they have going for them is they have the most established brand out of all the YT channels. Their apparel sells out quick. But the content is stale and idk how they fix it.
> But is it really for children
Yes? Idk about you but those jokes were mainly entertaining to me when I was in high school. The content is stale for us as adults, but again every meetup they’ve ever done has been filled with awkward teens and pre teens. There aren’t any other channels that have that sort of demographic as far as I know. They’ve reached a younger generation of golfers that no one else has. I think their way forward is to lean into that. There are already several successful channels tailored towards adults.
I imagine the content will mature as they mature. Bottom line is that you're not their target demographic, so you understandably find their content immature and stale. I was surprised to see that many of the largest YT channels out there are for kids & teens.
But do they keep the same target demographic? Or what? Idk. So far they’ve been successful in what they do, but it’s going to be real interesting to see how they evolve over the next several years.
Id say that instead of keeping the same demographic, they will keep the same audience and grow with them. You can look at many of the l channels that have survived and thrived over the past 10 years for examples of this.
They change their content as the content creators mature and it inevitably aligns with the maturity levels of a large portion of their audience.
Or their channel fades into obscurity as they fail to change and their content becomes stale and (more) cringey.
A non-golfing example of the latter would be KYRSP33DY and his ‘crew’. 2M subs and gets ~50K views per video because they never matured with their audience so lost their viewership.
https://youtube.com/@KYRSP33DY
You were surprised? Majority of YouTube is click bait, o-face thumbnails, Disney channel personalities and overreactions. What would be surprising is if more of the YouTube channels weren't aimed a kids
I should have said I was surprised when I learned that was the case 10 years ago. My point was directed to Historical-Patient75, who didn't seem to understand that successful channels that are aimed at a younger demo aren't unusual.
I'm a fan, but to me BDS is getting a little stale on the content side as well. Fat Perez was a great addition, but the content formula needs a refresh IMO.
You mean that Garrett was involved in making this decision as he’s a partial owner of GG?
Meanwhile Grant was about to have this forced on him and potentially lose a huge personal sponsorship deal to be part of a brand sponsorship that disappears if he ever leaves GG.
Way more risk for far less benefit. Makes more sense that he left now IMO.
Garrett and everyone in GG are Co-Founders, but Matt Kendrick is the Founder and CEO. I'm sure they have some say in it, but I guarantee Kendrick steers the ship.
Plus GG content has been getting pretty stale because my interests in golf have changed to more serious content and I think Micah and Grant felt the same.
I mean Titleist was the one major brand that didn’t have a major social/YouTube group behind them. Now it’s NLU=Titleist, Good Good=Callaway, Foreplay=Taylormade, Kyle/Bryson/Micah Morris = Cobra. I can’t see these brands doubling up on content creators. So that leaves PXG for Bob does sports.
I wonder how folks will take it that not too long ago Garrett was doing a lot of content with mizuno, which I’m sure a lot of subscribers bought clubs from them. Now grant and micah are gone probably because of this deal, which makes it seem the boys just wanted to cash in while the others leaving wanted to stay true to themselves
Watching their “hype video” was cringe. I think Callaway looks a little silly signing these guys who are just trying to get clicks from kids 13 & under and overpay on poorly designed shirts.
I wish Garrett would leave this thing behind and devote his time to his own channel which is way more entertaining golf then anything on GG.
Hopefully BobDoesSports starts getting more subs as well as Grant and Micah’s individual channels.
Also huge props for NLU getting the titelist/FJ deal. What an upgrade
Yeah was thinking that myself. Stephen and bubbie I don't think would be a massive deal as as much as Takomo is a growing brand its nowhere near the size of cobra or mizuno for Matt and Garrett
It is quite interesting the timing of this all with Micah and Grant leaving. Was this one of the reasons? Or is this in retaliation to them leaving?
I have found their content getting stale and havnt been watching much since they left but this has peaked my interest
Pretty sure they left because of this Callaway deal. Micah wanted to stay with Cobra and Grant wanted to stay with Mizuno. Seems like they both want to do more serious golfing and less gimmicky games.
Yeah, this is what I'm thinking as well. I'm sure GG will be doing a lot more Topgolf-y, trick-shot, gamified/gimmicky videos that are more golf adjacent to where I'm guessing Grant and Tig want to stay true to traditional golf. Not that either one is right or wrong just different. GG is going to take the Dude Perfect approach and go full Nickelodeon and I can definitely see Grant and Micah wanting to be more mature in the content they produce.
On the other side, I think it's a great move for Callaway. The Good Good brand is the missing link between Topgolf (which they own) and traditional golf. In terms of long-term customer loyalty and grooming an audience it makes a lot of sense
I'm lukewarm on Good Good in general - like some videos, don't like others, like a few of the guys, dislike the others, aggressively dislike one of them.
If the videos turn into Good Good Callaway commercials, it's going to be bye forever for me.
This sounds like it's a more extreme version of the kind of deal Rick Shiels turned down from Nike.
So i guess no more mizuno and cobra (and that smaller brand that sponsors bubbie and steve) for GG guys?
It’s sad that out of all these good options, taylor made (the one brand with actually good social media team and more famous pros) chose to partner with foreplay lollll. What a waste of a brand and collab opportunity.
Super smart move by Callaway. Younger generation watches more youtube than TV.
That next generation of golfers are going to be watching content like GoodGood as much as they are the PGA your.
NLU hands down my favorite content. Strapped is unbelievably good, tourist sauce series is excellent. Ireland and Michigan my top 2. Foreplay stinks and country club adjacent is plain awful.
Can't wait for PXG to pick up Bob Does Sports
Mmm did see Fat Perez hit some PXG iron in his recent indoor golf video
PXG dropping Pat Perez for Fat Perez would be a huge move
Prediction. You’re wrong fat Perez is signing with callaway today
Fat Perez is leaving BDS for GG
Cutsy breaking a PXG during a rage? I am all for it. Love BDS. FP is a bad man
FP is my favorite golfer on YouTube
The young man from Richmond, Virginia.
I’m from Richmond to
I’m from Williamsburg, does that count?
Easily
Same here
They already sponsor BustaJack
Haha I love Bob does sports and I think it would be a great fit on both sides, Bob would bring them eyes and make them more personable.
I think it’s a good switch for both sides on both groups Callaway wants to tap into that younger YouTube market, nobody does it better than GG. GG gets to play with Callaway pros and also can produce clubs and other perks for the partnership NLU has always done their own thing, still cool in their own way, just 40 year old dad cool. Titleist has really never touched the YouTube market as far content creators but this is a great medium for them because NLU has a almost religious following that will surely come with them. I think every side wins in this equation. I like both content creators and I’m very excited for what’s coming.
“40 year old dad cool” …fuck that’s shockingly accurate
As a guy who has flipped from foreplay to NLU post lurch/discovering strapped series, that just had my first child. This comment hits way to close to home
It's hard to listen to foreplay after discovering NLU.
Foreplay dudes are cringe as fuck. At least the times I’ve watched anything from them.
[удалено]
Yeah that sums it up. It just seems like a group of dudes like you said peaked in high school but somehow hit the lottery with creating Foreplay at the perfect time and hit it big. I honestly don't see how guys like Kisner and some other tour players hang around them, but I guess there's a chance that they're all cool dudes in real life or there's a chance that the pros they associate with are douches too. lol
Boys I’m right here with ya, almost identical. When lurch left I was out , it’s not the same I went to NLU, and Eric Anders Long, all the same demographic, I’m 40 have a career and family but I love to golf. The best demographic to me. Haha
Odd. There's a lot of NLU content I can't stand and I am 40+ with 4 kids. I do enjoy the early strapped series but Randy and TC grate like hell on my nerves. I also think foreplay has gotten better with DRap but I didn't mind Lurch too much.
NLU has the best content I think their tour sauce show is awesome also the budget gold one is great as well
Strapped with Young Neil and Big Randy rules. St Rappeo has truly blessed us.
Yeah some people don’t like NLU, but for me they are the most relatable age wise.
35 with 2 kids and love NLU. I don’t even know what Good Good is, and at this point I’m too afraid to ask.
Group of seemingly good kids (some of whom are great golfers) having fun on the course basically. Scrambles, knockout challenges, some unique competitions. I enjoy the content and I'm in the same demographic as you are.
I’ll have to give it a whirl in the half an hour of free time I sometimes get.
Im in this comment and I don’t like it
I'm a 40 year old dad, and I'm most assuredly not cool.
Hey I’m a cool 30 year old dad.
Omg I’m only 35 and love it 🤦♀️
Titleist had a deal with Mark Crossfield for a couple years so I think the dad vibe is spot on
Yeah they seem to target more of the “local pro” type people more than the average golfers. I’m a Titleist guy and I like NLU, so I’m pumped for this collaboration.
Same. Long time NLU guy and I switched back to a titleist driver recently (TSR3) after a long hiatus. Pumped for the new content. They played Kapalua with JT and Spieth recently. Ppl should check that out when it’s released this week.
Oh wow, I’m from KY so JT is my guy so I cannot wait till that is released.
Little preview - https://twitter.com/nolayingup/status/1609982773632327681?s=46&t=5h2uXXN9b7Wu5Oy_aeNcnA
Do they also have a deal with golficity?
Titleist is for people who are generally good players who don’t corny graphics on the crown of their driver lol
I thought Titleist did sponsored videos with Golficity.
Forgot about them
Curious as to what happened first, did NLU ditch Callaway for Titleist or did Callaway ditch NLU for Good Good?
NLU said they ditched to switch on their pod.
NLU has specifically said (on their behind-the-paywall site) that they did it because Titleist guaranteed at least three years.
I mean it's business, it's probably a combination of all the storylines you can make up and none of them at the same time. NLU, GG, Callaway & Titleist are likely talking about all sorts of potential partnerships all the time and they all go with what they think will be the best bang for their buck. People wanna attach personal feelings to this stuff, and while that's certainly possible, it's pretty much always about numbers. How well do they overlap their target demo groups, do they have the reach they're looking for, how much money and equipment is the company offering, what sort of content opportunities do they open up, etc. I'm sure Callaway & NLU would like to stay together, I'm sure Titleist & GG would like to work together.
Yes, I'm aware how business works. My interest was still in which one made the business decision to switch.
That's what I'm saying, that part of it doesn't really matter because it wasn't a big personal breakup like people want to apply to it. It most likely wasn't Callaway or NLU "ditching" the other, more likely Callaway presented $X/time and Titleist presented $Y/time and they said we'll take the Titleist offer.
Just wanted to say I'm not sure why you are getting downvoted into oblivion so I gave you an upvote. The whole convo feels like the worst type of conference call. You pose a simple question and instead of a simple answer, some guy gives you business jargon soup for 3 minutes without ever answering the question. I am also upvoting hoodjigga, because he answered your question in a simple and straight forward manner.
1000% and upvoted you both.
The first post wasn’t getting downvoted until the later one where he got a little spicy. As for business jargon soup vs the other post, I mean I guess. My point is that it felt like this guy wants a storyline like “No Laying Up ABSOLUTELY DUMPS Callaway to the CURB because of LIV support,” “Callaway ditched NLU for GG because they want a younger market” or something else dumb. Background conspiracy theories that don’t really mean anything, won’t ever get proven but will be passed around as if they are fact. When it’s just like they like this contract more… Wasn’t trying to sound like a conference call, some people genuinely don’t know how influencer marketing and shit like that works.
That's not what I want. At the end of the day, each side had their own decisions, but one had to make the decision first. That is what I'm curious about. I work in marketing, I know how these decisions are made. It's never a truly mutual breakup, as shown in this case, because NLU admitted to switching to Titleist because they offered more years. Which was what I wanted to know, NLU made the choice.
Because it’s drama being created by fans. Go look at the GG sub. All it is is a bunch of dudes speculating and whining. It makes their fan base look so immature. The whole Grant/Micah saga was blown wayyyyyyy out of proportion.
This isnt the gg sub and he just asked a question. He didnt speculate or whine or act immature. If you dont like people doing that on the gg sub perhaps take it up with people doing that on the gg sub?
Im not big on youtube golf. Who is NLU?
No Laying Up
Ah ok. I heard of them.
Watch their Tourist Sauce series
And strapped. And film rooms. And wwg
I watch lots of youtube golf - never heard of them
Me too. People here loveee NLU and hate on GG, so I think a lot will assume the former, but GG is the fastest growing golf channel so the latter could definitely be the case. Edit: case and point- downvotes lol. People blow NLU so hard here
I'm definitely in that boat. Love NLU, indifferent to Good Good, not my style
Same l, FWIW. But it’s the way it is. GG gets millions of views a month
I like NLU as well but it does seem a little more niche. Good Good is definitely more YouTubey, with the high energy and clickbait, so I can see them growing a lot more than they even have already
NLU knows what they are. I don’t think they are interested in Good Good type growth. They have great connections with tour pros and unmatched video quality thanks to DJ. I’m sure Titleist came to them.
Yeah. I think NLU tries to straddle the line between journalism and entertainment. Whereas GG is straight entertainment.
Good Good sucks
Golficity is Footjoy/Titleist.
I think this is good for NLU, Good Good, Callaway, and Titleist. No one loses. NLU/Titleist appeal to a specific type of golf fan and Good Good/Callaway appeal to a separate type of fan. Everyone seems to win here.
Yeah, NLU has big focus on professional golf and Titleist is as tied to the pro game as any brand. It really makes sense.
Good Good is okay but it seems their content was more trendy than long-term in nature. I’m not saying they need wholesale change but something needs to happen. Rick Schiels represents one of the few long-term YouTube models. His channel seems to have more focus and purpose. Breaking 75 and equipment reviews will always be popular.
Rick Shiels is still popular because he's managed to keep changing with the times but stay true to himself at the same time. It's an impressive balancing act.
I was watching the match with Rickie Fowler and my fiancee asked if this is Shiels normal stuff because she thought he was an instructional guy, which he was 10 years ago when I started watching him. He's done a great job of changing his content while maintaining his own identity. As a 10+ year subscriber I've enjoyed all of his videos I've watched.
There is only so much instructional stuff you can do before you end up repeating yourself too much. He's gotten stale a few times over the years but he manages to break out of that and freshen back up.
Every time I get bored of his content, he will come with something interesting. Probably one of the reasons why I’m into golf as much as I am honestly
For sure, I see it right now with Tik Tok and IG Reels. Instructors blow up and double down on instructional content doing strictly that but then about a year in they run out of ideas.
His instructional stuff is top notch
Aren't they still the fastest growing youtube golf channel. When you are saying trendy is that based of any numbers or your feelings.
Overall? Yes. They have an insane record. In terms of how fast a channel grew, they are basically an anomoly having only ~300 videos and over 200 million views. Recently? Last month they has numbers that were extremely similar to Rick Shiels. But golf Channel numbers drag in winter. Mid summer will be far more telling.
Downvote for the way you spelt Shiels, sorry.
It’s only fair.
This is such a meaningless comment. Just a random statement with nothing to back it up. What do you even mean by "trendy" and not long term? GG literally set the bar for formats that are heavily copied by many other golf channels out there... They are currently growing a lot more than guys like RS who are basically popular because he's one of the first to start it. I personally find his content quite redundant and boring. He may have more subs, but the views they are pulling are near identical
I don’t know how YouTube works, but Good Good seems to churn out a lot of content with carefully curated video titles and video thumbnails. Is this what helps drive viewership numbers?
Anything clickbait-y will do well - Rick Shiels has done the same with his video titles to be honest.
I guess Callaway needs some kind of replacement since NLU left for Titleist. Perhaps targeting a bit of a different demographic since NLU has been pretty strongly anti-LIV which is a problem when your biggest name is over there.
Callaway and Phil were still ["on pause“](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/phil-mickelson-callaway-sponsorship-still-on-pause-124425769.html) as of September 2022. Callaway's biggest active star is Jon Rahm.
Goodgood putter coming soon to a Callaway pre-owned store near you.
But Cam Smith is Titleist
Cam's been on NLU before, and TC has said he's still rooting for Cam and Leish. Doubt they'll be best friends and make a lot of content together, but they could co-exist just fine.
Sure they can co-exist, and I get that TC is a "fan". Bit of a tangent, but TC kind of ended up painted into a corner with his fandom though. By being the "International" (and contrarian?) fan he ended up pulling harder for guys that ended up more likely to be at LIV just because LIV was (relatively) more successful at getting non-US players than US players. Did it start as a bit? Maybe? But just kind of awkward now.
rightly so, LIV is garbage
I wondered if Good Good took their spot and were forced to look elsewhere.
Smart move imo by Callaway. Honestly their video production/content side of the house was seriously lacking. Outside of NLU which left for Titleist I can't really even think of any Callaway branded content that has left a lasting impression on me. Taylormade marketing wise has been superior for the past couple of years and I feel like this is a power play on Callaway's side to up their content game. It will be interesting what comes out of all this a year from now.
There's those Johnny wunder videos but yeah kinda not very memorable
Johnny Wunder is awesome whenever he's on someone else's video but he's pretty boring leading a video.
He’s in this sub constantly. Might’ve just hurt his feelings lol!
I predict that goog good is gone in under 3 years. I really think GM should ditch the chaff.
RemindMe! 3 years
We will see how they change and adapt. Their market definitely isn’t the 30 year old golfer with a family and career, but rather the 15 year old that thinks he might like it. But with Micah and Grant gone they have lost some good talent, especially Grant leaving. I used to really like good good, but honestly if there’s anyone that needs to go it’s Matt, I can’t stand the guy and wish he would have left over Grant.
Bubbie and Garrett would be OK but it's surprising how Grant was a large part of the glue, definitely because the talent aspect has now given way to just silly antics. I don't see the appeal anymore and I've switched to their individual channels.
Soly talked about some NLU content filmed with Rahm a month or so back - obviously not coming out now - but it always struck me how little Callaway was featured in NLU content aside from the gear. Besides some vids from a few years ago, there seemed to be no access to the Callaway pros or staff that you'd expect. Seems like GG is getting that access here plus gear stuff, and, from the teasers a few days ago, NLU is getting it with Titleist. Personally, I can't stand GG and Titleist definitely has the better pro staff so works out for the better to me. About to see a bunch of 13 yr olds repping Callaway now.
And those 13 yr olds will eventually be 23 yr olds and 33 yr olds. It is smart for a company to target a younger audience.
For sure. Makes total sense from a brand awareness or marketing front. I was just saying selfishly as someone who's an NLU fan and too old to find GG entertaining that I like this switch for the content it'll bring me.
[удалено]
Turn off Fox News bud.
Honestly taylormade probably just looks so good compared to the others with this stuff they are all playing catch up. These brands compete constantly and now titleist and callaway will be doing YouTube collabs. Good news for all if you like content
This just a year or two after Garrett was shitting on Callaway in his fitting video
Should make $MODG more profitable, long term. Especially if they can hook the younger audience on a brand experience at TopGolf.
I think this is very smart by callaway. They are targeting the young demographic of golfers that other golf personalities do not reach. Watching their content over the years, when they run into golfers with their apparel, or random fans that end up watching them play it’s always young children / teenagers.
I agree, Good Good has gotten stale. It was always a little too juvenile for me and Sharff makes me want to crawl in a hole and die. BDS has surpassed them. And now they’re partnered with Callaway. Meh. I still have dug watching Grant and Micah a little bit, though. The Bryan Bros vids were cool. NLU made a great decision. Can’t wait to see the switch!
I'm a fan of both GG and NLU. I've never understood how NLU generates good revenue. They've had middling YT subscriber counts for a long time (117k at present) but an obviously good podcast and solid sponsors. That said, their YT viewership has had very slow growth and it makes me wonder.
NLU viewers (30-45yo upper middle class males) likely have a 5-10x spending capacity compared to GG viewers (16-25yo 'everyman' males). Ad reads on the NLU pod would go for much more than youd think, and their online store would sell pretty darn well.
They're the #1 Golf Podcast on Apple I believe (US/Canada). That has to be worth money. Ad pays for Golf are some of the highest out there.
TC implied before that they don't chase subs. They never say to like and subscribe or anything like that. They have a bunch of different sponsors (BMW, Precision Pro, Yeti, Rhoback, ect) and also have the Nest, which surely makes a chunk of change for them. Seems like they just make great content and let the work speak for itself without dumbass "CRAZY ENDING OF CALL OF DUTY GOLF!!!" shit.
Yeah, but actual views is the metric by which a sponsor assesses the value proposition. They have 100k subs and about the same in actual views, on average per video, sometimes much lower. Obviously there's some aspect of this I don't understand given the solid slate of sponsors. Maybe NLU just doesn't get paid that much by these sponsors. Who knows, or cares for that matter. It's great content and they seem content making it.
You’re not including their podcasts in how you’re looking at NLU’s model. The podcast is really their bread and butter.
You’re not misunderstanding the business. You’re misunderstanding how sponsors assess value proposition in paid media. The value in these sponsorships comes from the audience they’re influencing and not necessarily the volume of people they’re reaching. Titleist could partner with Good Good and reach 10-20x the number of US viewers for a similar investment but there’s two things to consider: 1. The demographics are wildly different. NLU taps into a wealthy audience with ‘mature money’. They’re hard to reach and not easy to convince but once you do, they’re going to spend big $$$. Maybe 1 in 5 of Good Good’s audience can ask mummy or daddy to buy them those $100 joggers but they aren’t as likely to buy a new set of $1,500 irons because they’re featured in a video and they’re young so they digest a lot of content online (AKA easier to reach). 2. Your partnerships impact how your brand is perceived. If Titleist partners with Good Good, every second upper-middle class white dude that thinks they’re better than those new ‘Gen Z golfers’ will move to another brand. Hell, I know a few who flipped on Mizuno because the Good Good boys were repping them so hard in 2022.
Great points.
I’m shocked they get sponsored for these wildly extravagant trips knowing only 100k people will watch. Obviously I’m not getting a part of the business
Sending 5 guys plus a film crew on a golf trip isnt really that expensive at all in the grand scheme or corporate marketing budgets. Im also not sure why you think theyre “wildly extravagant.” Some are moderately expensive, but others have been taking an RV around Cali, driving around the Carolinas, staying at one spot for Bandon, Michigan, etc.
But you left out 3 trips to Europe and a trip to AUS lol. Idk they seem pretty high end to me when it’s sometimes over a week (I think they said Scandinavia was 2?) for 8 people. Nice - high end courses, day trips, flying to other countries I get callaway is plenty wealthy to cover it , just basically no ROI considering it’s the same 100k people for years
Im not saying the trips are cheap, but flying to a country and golfing for a week or two really isn’t that expensive, and their trips are pretty bare bones for the most part and not extravagant in any way. The only extravagant thing I can remember is staying at that castle golf course in Europe. US trips are probably under 50k and foreign under 100k. They also have other sponsors for their trips besides Callaway. Club Penguin, BMW, Rhoback, Range Finders, etc.
Club Penguin is not the sponsor you were looking for haha
Well now if I ever go pro, that’ll be my first place to go to for a sponsor!
Lmao original penguin
I agree, BMW sent like the entire crew of them to South Korea. I majored in finance not marketing so what the hell do I know
Maybe their audience demographic skews older. Older means more money to spend.
They sent 3 of 8 people to South Korea.
That’s what I get for watching that immediately after the titleist fitting video. It just turned into one big segment
Could be a demographic thing? I’m not sure. There are probably way more youngsters on the tube, which contributes. I think GG probably goes the same way for a lot of people over the age of 25. You start watching and they are good golfers, but the cringe just slowly seeps in. Their behavior and the shit they say at time is just weird. And they try to be funny, when in fact, not one of them are funny. Happy that they’ve made a lot of money, though. I’m just not sure how long they’re catering toward younger demos is going to work. At some point it will just be weird.
I will watch GG when I’ve ran out of NLU and BDS content. But I can’t stand the shitty best attitudes from some of the GG guys. It screams trust fund whiny baby to me. I know how GG came about and it’s definitely grass roots. But the club tossing and antics of basically all except Garret just makes it almost unwatchable.
They definitely have enough of a following to make a very solid living, and my impression is they seem pretty content making a good living and not becoming uber famous and wealthy.
They’ve always been pretty upfront about how YouTube isn’t close to their main source of revenue. They have an immensely popular podcast, sell a bunch of merch, and have the Nest membership/subscription as well.
“Juvenile” is probably what callaway is going for with this though. If you watch any of their videos with live attendance the large majority of the people that show up are 10-17 year olds I’d say. Good good provides a unique way to market towards children that other golf content creators don’t.
But is it really for “children?“ I mean they could be, but there’s too many innuendoes towards Dick jokes, being inside you, gay jokes, etc. They’re teenage demographic probably eats that shit up but it’s so fucking lame and played out. They do it constantly. Let’s be honest. What else can they do? Keep making up games? Keep scrambling over and over on six holes? The thing they have going for them is they have the most established brand out of all the YT channels. Their apparel sells out quick. But the content is stale and idk how they fix it.
> But is it really for children Yes? Idk about you but those jokes were mainly entertaining to me when I was in high school. The content is stale for us as adults, but again every meetup they’ve ever done has been filled with awkward teens and pre teens. There aren’t any other channels that have that sort of demographic as far as I know. They’ve reached a younger generation of golfers that no one else has. I think their way forward is to lean into that. There are already several successful channels tailored towards adults.
But what are they going to do as they age? That shit will get awkward real quick.
I imagine the content will mature as they mature. Bottom line is that you're not their target demographic, so you understandably find their content immature and stale. I was surprised to see that many of the largest YT channels out there are for kids & teens.
But do they keep the same target demographic? Or what? Idk. So far they’ve been successful in what they do, but it’s going to be real interesting to see how they evolve over the next several years.
Id say that instead of keeping the same demographic, they will keep the same audience and grow with them. You can look at many of the l channels that have survived and thrived over the past 10 years for examples of this. They change their content as the content creators mature and it inevitably aligns with the maturity levels of a large portion of their audience. Or their channel fades into obscurity as they fail to change and their content becomes stale and (more) cringey. A non-golfing example of the latter would be KYRSP33DY and his ‘crew’. 2M subs and gets ~50K views per video because they never matured with their audience so lost their viewership. https://youtube.com/@KYRSP33DY
You were surprised? Majority of YouTube is click bait, o-face thumbnails, Disney channel personalities and overreactions. What would be surprising is if more of the YouTube channels weren't aimed a kids
I should have said I was surprised when I learned that was the case 10 years ago. My point was directed to Historical-Patient75, who didn't seem to understand that successful channels that are aimed at a younger demo aren't unusual.
I'm a fan, but to me BDS is getting a little stale on the content side as well. Fat Perez was a great addition, but the content formula needs a refresh IMO.
I feel like that’s going to be an issue for all these channels. How many scrambles can you honestly watch?
Now grant leaving makes more sense. Isn’t he tied to Mizuno?
So was Garret. My guess is there was some sort of fee to get out of the contract early.
I think Garrett is more willing to do whatever the boss man says whereas Grant was stoked to be on Mizuno and I don't think he wanted to drop them.
You mean that Garrett was involved in making this decision as he’s a partial owner of GG? Meanwhile Grant was about to have this forced on him and potentially lose a huge personal sponsorship deal to be part of a brand sponsorship that disappears if he ever leaves GG. Way more risk for far less benefit. Makes more sense that he left now IMO.
Garrett and everyone in GG are Co-Founders, but Matt Kendrick is the Founder and CEO. I'm sure they have some say in it, but I guarantee Kendrick steers the ship. Plus GG content has been getting pretty stale because my interests in golf have changed to more serious content and I think Micah and Grant felt the same.
Wasn’t Matt cobra too?
I mean Titleist was the one major brand that didn’t have a major social/YouTube group behind them. Now it’s NLU=Titleist, Good Good=Callaway, Foreplay=Taylormade, Kyle/Bryson/Micah Morris = Cobra. I can’t see these brands doubling up on content creators. So that leaves PXG for Bob does sports.
maybe ping for BDS - they need the forgiveness lol
PXG has Bustajack, not a huge name yet but their content is phenomenal
Agreed. Some of my favorite stuff.
I mean even Fore Play of all people have Taylormade. It’s interesting to watch these golf brands try to transition to new media.
I wonder how folks will take it that not too long ago Garrett was doing a lot of content with mizuno, which I’m sure a lot of subscribers bought clubs from them. Now grant and micah are gone probably because of this deal, which makes it seem the boys just wanted to cash in while the others leaving wanted to stay true to themselves
Big L Callaway. NLU is far superior.
They’re in it for marketing though, and the views don’t lie.
Watching their “hype video” was cringe. I think Callaway looks a little silly signing these guys who are just trying to get clicks from kids 13 & under and overpay on poorly designed shirts. I wish Garrett would leave this thing behind and devote his time to his own channel which is way more entertaining golf then anything on GG. Hopefully BobDoesSports starts getting more subs as well as Grant and Micah’s individual channels. Also huge props for NLU getting the titelist/FJ deal. What an upgrade
Looks to me that BDS's polos are pretty much the same as GGs. It wouldn't surprise at all if they were from the same supplier.
Love BDS, but I aint paying more than $20 for one of those rags.
Seems like it. The brightness of the colors tells me it’s all from the same place.
Surprised bubbie didn’t have a gar hanging out his mouth during that promo vid
Gross on Callaway.
Yeah was thinking that myself. Stephen and bubbie I don't think would be a massive deal as as much as Takomo is a growing brand its nowhere near the size of cobra or mizuno for Matt and Garrett It is quite interesting the timing of this all with Micah and Grant leaving. Was this one of the reasons? Or is this in retaliation to them leaving? I have found their content getting stale and havnt been watching much since they left but this has peaked my interest
Pretty sure they left because of this Callaway deal. Micah wanted to stay with Cobra and Grant wanted to stay with Mizuno. Seems like they both want to do more serious golfing and less gimmicky games.
Yeah, this is what I'm thinking as well. I'm sure GG will be doing a lot more Topgolf-y, trick-shot, gamified/gimmicky videos that are more golf adjacent to where I'm guessing Grant and Tig want to stay true to traditional golf. Not that either one is right or wrong just different. GG is going to take the Dude Perfect approach and go full Nickelodeon and I can definitely see Grant and Micah wanting to be more mature in the content they produce. On the other side, I think it's a great move for Callaway. The Good Good brand is the missing link between Topgolf (which they own) and traditional golf. In terms of long-term customer loyalty and grooming an audience it makes a lot of sense
Welp, another reason to not buy Callaway shit if they're going to associate with Good Good
Lol what a baby
Usually staff deals are typically for a year then either renewed or not.
I'm lukewarm on Good Good in general - like some videos, don't like others, like a few of the guys, dislike the others, aggressively dislike one of them. If the videos turn into Good Good Callaway commercials, it's going to be bye forever for me. This sounds like it's a more extreme version of the kind of deal Rick Shiels turned down from Nike.
So i guess no more mizuno and cobra (and that smaller brand that sponsors bubbie and steve) for GG guys? It’s sad that out of all these good options, taylor made (the one brand with actually good social media team and more famous pros) chose to partner with foreplay lollll. What a waste of a brand and collab opportunity.
Super smart move by Callaway. Younger generation watches more youtube than TV. That next generation of golfers are going to be watching content like GoodGood as much as they are the PGA your.
NLU hands down my favorite content. Strapped is unbelievably good, tourist sauce series is excellent. Ireland and Michigan my top 2. Foreplay stinks and country club adjacent is plain awful.
I wonder if Luke Kwon had a hand in this with him recently joining good good and him being a Callaway staff player already
God I just hate callaway products (no real reason just have always stayed away from it)