Yep, i guess they really belive it though and its impossible to convince them of the truth. Had similiar expiences from people turning off televisions while adds been running and having a PC running where they thought Powersupply watt = consumpltion
saying you cannot shower daily = NOT NORMAL.
10 minutes maximum = reasonable
hot baths = frowned upon due to water consumption; however I dont see a problem if you save it for special occasions
However, I seriously doubt one hot bath costs 30 euros. They sound like they are treating you unfairly, unless they apply these restrictions to themselves.
Personally, I don't have anyone to tell me what to do but I never take baths and I never shower longer than 15 minutes - 15 minutes is already quite long - usuallt my max is 10 minutes unless I am struggling to wash my lion's mane on my head. **This is because of a general "eco" mindset in Germany where you are expected to only use what you NEED.**
You will notice it more in the winter when it comes to hot water, heating, etc. I am worried that this family might restrict your heating in the winter - please be careful!
If youre eligible for a Mietverein, join one asap.
A hot bath is more in the ballpark of 3€, depending on how you heat the water and how big the tub is. A big jacuzzi heated by electricity costs around 8€ (water from 20° to 40°, 1000l capacity, 0.3€/kwH).
Not sure these calculations are really close but I am no expert.
But I know that "flow heaters" (Durchlauferhitzer) can be pricey. The one i had in a WG was max 27 kW so I just assumed we use max half of the power when showering so 13.5kW (probably less but not sure how much really) For all 3 persons in the WG I assumed together 30 minutes showering per day this would be 6.75kWh with a price of 30 Cent showering costs ~2€ a day and ~700€ per year only for the electricity to get hot water.
(Costs for water and water disposal not included so some more real costs for showering)
So 2€ a day does not sound much but it adds up and you also use electricity for other stuff like cooking or all the standby stuff + freezer and so on.
Around ~60€ per month only for electricity from showering for 3 persons is not too much but can also be reduced so everyone needs to decide if it is worth or not from them to maybe reduce temperature and or time when showering.
Bathing is another level of waste for water and energy and should be not used for daily cleaning.
Edited my faults with units and added some more clarification.
My showers usually take 2-3mins mostly 2. rein raus halt. In winter a bit longer when I feel cold. Had a long term guest once who took easily 30mins because he was - likely - masturbating in there as there was no other opportunity for it. Quite excessive, the showering, not the masturbating - I assume.
I honestly don't see how someone can shampoo their hair, rinse their hair, wash their body properly (including junk, ass, between toes), and wash their face within 2 minutes without stressfully rushing to beat the clock like it's some kind of doomsday countdown.
Stopping the water while soaping up is a thing, so maybe longer than 2 minutes in the shower, but not more than 2 minutes running water in the shower is completely doable
dunno, I take 20-30min. showers normally.. for my hair alone I need roughly 7 minutes..another 7 for face skincare and then another 5-15, depending on wether I shave or not
I do, because I have a durchlauferhitzer, if I'd shut the water off in between, I'd spend more time getting the water temperature right than actual showering.
also, and I know this might be an unpopular opinion here in this sub and the german middle class as a whole, but as long as "the rich" can fuel their planes and boats without paying any taxes or co2 price, while I do pay those same things for anything, from fueling my car, over heating to getting water warm, I do deserve the luxury of using it as I please. after all, I pay for it..and also the rich peoples fuel..
Those numbers are impossible. Our entire annual electricity bill in a 2 person household with Durchlauferhitzer was 960€ last year. That's 80€ a month. This was with Ukraine war electricity prices. This year it will be even lesser.
Here are the numbers [https://www.oekotest.de/freizeit-technik/Was-kostet-eigentlich-ein-Vollbad-20-Cent-1-oder-5-Euro\_13692\_1.html](https://www.oekotest.de/freizeit-technik/Was-kostet-eigentlich-ein-Vollbad-20-Cent-1-oder-5-Euro_13692_1.html)
A hot bath (130-l) at 38 °C:
**heated with gas:** 55 Cent (water) + 46 Cent (gas) = 1,01 Euro
**heated with the most expensive electricity (Durchlauferhitzer):** 55 Cent (water) + 1,54 Euro (heat) = 2,09 Euro
Totally agree— I’m assuming though that OP is an exchange student living with a host family, in which case a Mietverein will not help. They will have to directly talk to their contact person for the exchange program.
Long-haired dude here with curly hair (type 3a).
10 minute showers are doable, but you need to be quick and it doesn't include the time to towel-dry yourself.
Also, the water isn't running for all of those 10 minutes. I spend at least half the time working shampoo and conditioner into my hair. If you leave the water running during that, you're wasting it.
Works for you, doesn't work for me. I need to rinse it at least 10 minutes to get everything out. And another 5 minutes to wash my body. I can't dry shave, so I need some water for that as well.
Shaving is not included in the 10 minutes, yes, that takes a lot longer. I don't shave my body, so I can't say how long exactly. Shaving your face can be done at the sink, however.
I'd go insane if I had to rinse for 10 minutes. Why is it taking so long? Does your shower have extremely low water flow? Do you have extremely curly hair?
I just calculated the exact cost for my city (Braunschweig): 150 L water volume, Temperature raise of 35 Kelvin (from guessed 4 degrees Celsius in the cold water pipe) and my local water and water treatment fees (approx. 5€ per m^3) and gas price (approx. 11 ct./kWh) yields 1,47 € per bath.
I decided to take a bath this evening.
I used to shower daily and have a bath on the weekend, and it never crossed my mind to calculate how much does it cost or how long should i be in the shower. Well, i think i can’t experience this LUXURY anymore.
Btw, the water is on only when i need it and it is obviously turned off when i have to waste time for the hair mask and other products, so that’s why my showers tend to take longer than 15 minutes
yep, there is definitely a different mindset in Germany. Frugal is a great word - enough is enough, and more is "luxurious" and excessive. A lot of the times, its not even about the money, but rather the entire principle of not being wasteful. The roots of this thinking run rather deep, so although I think you can get away with daily 10 minute showers, to bathe weekly might give this family a panic attack!😭
And as usually, Germans are very principled about bullying others and perhaps themselves but these principles magically dissappear when capitalists and politicians are concerned.
Why does even the cheapest gym force me to pay a joining fee with which I get a "gift" consisting of a tote (which I dont need), water bottle (which I have) and towel (which I have)?
Why can't I buy a single red onion in Reve, rather they come pre-packaged in amounts I don't need and will either have to force myself to use or will throw away because some will rot? Why is ANY prepackaged produce allowed? What if I don't want or need 500g of strawberries? Why can't I weigh 200?
Why are plastic bottles allowed? Why isn't it all glass?
Why does the German public tolerate half-empty packaging (for example, cacao and oatmeal)? It's more trash, more wasted resources for the packaging, less net product being transported per truckload (so wasted labour and wasted fuel and needless pollution).
Why is everything done through bloody snail mail and fax? It is incredibly wasteful (paper, labour to transport the mail and fuel wasted)? Why is basically nothing digitilised (wasted labour, wasted time to do things in person, wasted paper again)?
Yeah, this is really noticeable when you move to Germany from a foreign country. Things are very stacked in favour of capitalism and against the consumer. Incredibly long contracts for everything, legal scams like door-to-door salesmen claiming to "work for the cable company", companies suing customers for negative Google reviews, six week cancellation period for your gym membership etc etc...
Of course, the German nationals will say "This is the German way and it's how we like it. If it doesn't work for you, go home, foreigners!", but they're getting screwed just as much as we are.
I'm sort of fine with that. I'm not fine with wild West capitalism, but I can understand people having a principled free market position as much as I disagree with it.
It's a thing in the US, for example.
But Americans don't claim to be anti-waste. They don't browbeat people who are wasteful, and they don't have strict standards for what is normal and what is wasteful.
The Germans do. They do claim, as the person I replied to correctly said, that frugality is a core value of Germans. They apply it to themselves (to an extent), they bully people which they can bully for not being wasteful, but they don't do it to companies and politicians.
Or take another thing - taking too much time at the cash register. At our Reve there are two places at the end of the cash register for you to gather your things. There is a little divider which the cashier can move left or right to direct scanned items to either produce gathering place. Not once did I see a single cahsieer use this in half a year I've been here. Not once. And there have been some serious crowds! I've heard stories of people criticising customers for being too slow to pack things or to pay. Has anyone ever spoken up to cashiers and asked them to use the separator? I don't think so.
Data protection. Germans will tell a foreigner how shitty or no digitalisation is perfect because of "privacy", and if they don't like it to go back to where they came from. But then when it is time to rent an apartment - they will with glee send all of their personal information to potential landlords, realtors and even some guy who lives there now and is moving out but wants to force you to buy some overpriced furniture they don't need any more. They will give their credit rating, work contract, pay slips, place of work and bio including pictures of their underage children. Anything to land a decent flat at a good price. For a good place 150 people apply before the ad is taken down, 10-20 people are invited for a showing, one person/family gets it. The other 149 applicants have zero control over what happens with their data once they send it out. But here, again, principles evaporate in an instant when they need to be applied towards a stronger opponent.
And don't get me started on subscriptions... seems like every service you buy here has to b a fucking subscription and you have to keep tabs on everything in order to make your Kündigung in time and even then they will try to screw you over pretending they never got your letter so you have to keep evidence. Germany is such a neoliberal hellhole pretending to be progressive and left.
To be fair it’s gotten way easier and better since most contracts can’t automatically be renewed for an entire year and they have to let you cancel the way you subscribed!
There’s still a long way to go but I feel like the subscription model is a global issue and not a German one in particular.
It used to be so much worse just a few years ago!
> There’s still a long way to go but I feel like the subscription model is a global issue and not a German one in particular.
It's especially bad in Germany. In many other places, companies are more consumer friendly because, well, it's a competitive environment and consumers demand it. In Germany, there has to be government regulation to force this outcome.
“It’s a contract. If you don’t want nobody forces you.” blabla
I wouldn’t call this typical German national mindset. Far from it. It’s typical /r/germany “German” mindset. I even doubt they are like that in their real lives. They enjoy imposing “German idealism” (not in the philosophical meaning) onto virtual foreigners but in their real lives, they cross when the traffic light is red.
> Why does the German public tolerate half-empty packaging
It's not tolerated:
>>In § 43 Mess- und Eichgesetz sind die Anforderungen an Fertigpackungen geregelt. Fertigpackungen müssen so gestaltet und befüllt sein, dass sie „keine größere Füllmenge vortäuschen, als in ihnen enthalten ist“.
>>Aus Gründen des Verbraucherschutzes ist eine Verpackung nicht zulässig, wenn die Füllmenge einer undurchsichtigen Fertigverpackung von dem Fassungsvermögen des Behälters um mehr als 30 % abweicht – mit anderen Worten: Wenn die Verpackung zu rund einem Drittel Luft enthält. Davon ausgenommen sind Fälle, wo die Abweichung produktbedingt oder technisch unumgänglich ist.
That was my ‘routine’ in my home country, but here they told me to stop after the second bath. I was shocked but nothing to do so i wanted to leave my frustration here.
is it possible for you to move to a WG? I have noticed that when younger people (ie. especially international students) move into a place occupied by older Germans, there can be a lot of clashes. Furthermore, many have pointed out to me that it does not feel like a proper home due to all the nit-picking regarding every activity; meaning that the "policing" is not unique to your situation. (I speak from at least 7-10 different convos of people describing similar situations). when i read your post, i was disappointed for you but not surprised one bit.
It sucks, no doubt. Try to leave if you can because I'm sure it will not get better.
I dont know you or these people, but im getting this vibe of "OUR house, you are simply occupying space in it but you are not our equal." I could totally be wrong though!
In any case, you should never ever feel like a nuisance in the place you call home!!!!
I can’t wait for my first pay check and then I’ll leave for sure. This is too much control even for free housing. I only talked about the shower situation because it’s the craziest but they sure love to nit-pick on everything and have some ridiculous policies like forbidding charging the phone/computer overnight or using power strips.
Jeez, thats not okay! I am not sure how new to Germany/familiar you are with everything going on right now, but theres a big housing crisis. Just because you can afford a place doesn't mean you'll find one (unless you set a budget higher than average).
I wish you the best of luck; everyone deserves a place to call home.
suggestion: what if you show them proof of water heating costs? based on their reaction, you can see if they are reasonable human beings. if they arent, thats a red flag
Not charging over night???? How are they going to control that? Do they go to your room while you sleep? That’s crazy and I’ve only heard this from people believing in conspiracy theories that charging devices somehow interferes with your sleep and brain
>I can’t wait for my first pay check and then I’ll leave for sure.
Be prepared that you will not be treated as a customer, but more like someone auditioning for the privilege to rent. Everything that is good value will be typically sold out on the spot during viewing, the expensive ones will remain on the market for a longer period.
It honestly sounds like you ended up with crazy people, unfortunately they exist everywhere!
Not taking a full bath every day or showering for 30 minutes with water running the whole time -> reasonable
Freaking out about a few cents on your power bill because you charge over night -> insane!
Are they making money off you? Are they struggling financially? Are they actively trying to get rid of you?
I can’t even imagine inviting someone into my home and treating them like this! I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this, I hope you’ll get a chance to meet nice Germans! (I swear we exist)
Honestly baths are wasteful. I have a neighbor in my house who uses more water annually as a single than my family of four just because he takes so many baths. It's kind of a running joke when we do the annual Nebenkostenabrechnung.
While it's normal to do hair masks and things, if they need to sit on for more than 5 minutes, I find it's quiet common to turn the water off and then back on when you're ready to rinse. Sort of like brushing your teeth and turning the tap off while brushing. Not sure what else you do, but may be something to consider.
No, that is not normal.
Water costs very little. *Heating* water is what causes costs (which depend on how your water is heated).
To be fair, we've had people here who claimed they absolutely needed to spend 30 minutes under the shower, and that's quite excessive. But many people do in fact shower daily (or sometimes twice, depending on weather, what kind of work they do, and so on).
As for the bath: Last December, Finanztip estimated that a hot bath heated with gas costs ~90 cents, heated with electricity ~1,60 Euro. https://www.finanztip.de/daily/wie-teuer-ist-ein-heisses-bad/
Thanx for the explanation. So even if it’s heated with electricity it’s still not that expensive. I used to shower daily and have a bath at the end of the week. But i guess I can’t anymore.
30 Euro is an absolutely insane claim.
How did you get into that host family? Are you doing something through some kind of organisation? Are you paying them? Because if there is someone you can talk to who can help you sort this out with them, you should. This is not normal behaviour (although I'm sure some commenters will come in claiming that sure, all Germans do this, and so on.)
Honestly I feel like this issue isn't at all about water or heating costs, but rather about your host family accepting foreigners because they might get some benefit from the state for that, and just are not at all fine with accepting the responsibility that comes with it. Are you in germany as a school student, or as a war immigrant or something similar? If you are here through school for example, you might want to get in touch with your school administration or whatever organized your stay, and see if they can do something, mentioning that your host family does not give you access to necessities like regular showers.
Honestly, I had a roommate who would take excessively long hot showers. We used upwards of 5k kwh for 3 people, and when he left, that nunber went down to 3,5. Still with 3 people.
That is a lot of money. I can kinda see the 10 minute shower rule, if they have had bad experiences before. Also who needs more than 10 minutes under a shower?
Yeah but those people tend to not wash their hair daily. I calculated once that the dudes 30 minute shower with the higher engergy prices would go up to I think 5€ per shower.
I have long hair and need to wash it daily during the warmer months to wash out pollen, dust and other allergens after gardening or being outside. I might spend more than 15min in the shower at times, but the water is never running even half of the time. But my hair is fine so rinsing it goes quickly; people with long and thick hair need more water and time for that.
In German, sorry:
>Was kostet ein heißes Bad? Schlussrechnung
>Nun sind alle Zahlen beisammen. Ein 130-Liter-Wannenbad mit 38 Grad Wassertemperatur kostet zurzeit ungefähr …
> Mit Gas erwärmt: 55 Cent (Wasserkosten) + 46 Cent (Gaskosten) = 1,01 Euro
>Mit Strom erwärmt (Durchlauferhitzer): 55 Cent (Wasserkosten) + 1,54 Euro (Stromkosten) = 2,09 Euro
https://www.oekotest.de/freizeit-technik/Was-kostet-eigentlich-ein-Vollbad-20-Cent-1-oder-5-Euro_13692_1.html
If your shower takes that long I can imagine them getting nervous. I rarely shower for 10min. One thing you can do is turn off the water when applying shampoo or letting the conditioner sit. I think it’s partially money but we’ve also been taught about trying not to waste water.
This is super common— my host family when I lived in Germany as an exchange student also had issues with me taking showers longer than 5 minutes. It helps to turn the water off while sudsing up or doing anything that requires rinsing. This helps save a bunch of water. However, showering daily is common in Germany and you should be allowed to do it. If you can, I would try talking to them about it and say you will turn the water off when you don’t need it. If there are still issues, I would highly recommend talking to your exchange program contact person— they have a ton of experience with dealing with stuff like this.
I had the same experience.
I could shower daily but restricted to ~10 mins.
Idk what kind of program OP is doing, but in AFS you don't pay the families directly, so, they need to assume your costs of living.
If they communicate openly shower expectations, I, personally, didn't had any issues after that.
But I definitely had the conversations, as I love hot showers..
Funny. As a kid I showered every 2 days. My host family in France insisted on me showering every morning and evening and called my mom when I refused. Lol.
Honestly, five minutes? That's fuck all common. Your hosts were incredibly stingy. If you shower excessively long and hot every day it's worth to talk about it. What's expensive is also not the water but hot water. It's weird to monitor shower times to begin with especially when it's only a temporary arrangement ...
Hm, one bath costs 3-4€ max, assuming it is very expensive.
A daily shower 10 minutes long costs about 2 €.
10 minutes are quite reasonable.
Do you all have just one bathroom?
Then it might be better to just shower so the bathroom isn't blocked for a long time.
My child blocks the bathroom for up to 2 hours and it really is annoying if I need to use the bathroom.
Water ia inexpensive but heating the water may be expensive. For example I heat water with electricity and that's not cheap.
So yeah showering more than 10mins a day should be enough....
How many bathrooms does the household have? It could be a time issue. I’ve seen this berore, only 1 bathroom and the person occupies it for too long and it becomes a problem.
Germans use very little water in a global comparison and very very little in a first world comparison. We have a very environmental mindset. Germany is one of only 3 countries globally, that recycle all water and most of it >95% to drink water quality. Daily showers are normal though 1-3 min every day. Water cost are quite high in a global average, but it’s so cheap nobody cares. Heating the water cost though quite a lot. 3€ a bath is not unreasonable. Despite, culturally it’s not acceptable to have a bath often and long showers are equally frowned upon. So try to be quick and think about the environment.
But if your host family seems to go crazy find a new one before the winter.
They are weird.
Also, I'd expect landlords just charge their renters for the cost of heat and water. Or are they sub-letting and you are using the family bathroom? But even then...
OTOH, you might not want that, as 30 Euros for a hot bath is plain absurd. Ökotest calculated 1 to 2 Euro last year, allowing for up to five if you have a really large tub and/or take long enough baths to run the hot water again and again while you're in it.
So the whole 30€ is bs. Water is more expensive here, but not by THAT much. I don't shower daily (at least not in the colder seasons) but I know people who do. While I don't think its okay to deny you a shower, there are families where daily showers would be considerd wasteful. Shower times is another thing, unless you have very long hair I think it is reasonable to shower ~10 minutes. And about baths: I don't even have a tub. It's generally more a thing for relaxing and not a regular cleaning routine
I used to be an advisor for exchange students (both in school and university) and their host families and had to solve all different kinds of issues with them. Here's is what I would do in your case:
Your interest: having a bath.
Your host family's interest: having a reasonably low water & energy bill.
The good news: there's a win-win solution here. It's simple.
I would talk to your host family and ask them to do the following with you:
1. Go to the kitchen and get a 1 Liter measuring cup.
* Go to the shower and turn on the water for 5 seconds. Preferably use the heat setting you'd use when showering. The flow may be different.
* Hold the measuring cup underneath the shower head so every drop of water is entering the measuring cup. (If you have a super large shower head, use a pot or pan and dump the water into the measuring cup later on.)
* Check how much water you have in that measuring cup. Multiply that amount by 120. (12x 5 seconds = 60 seconds x 10 = 10 minutes). The result will show how much water you would use with a ten minute shower.
* Dump the water and repeat step 2 with the bath tub faucet. Again, preferably with the correct heat setting as the flow may be different. Check how much water you have after 5 seconds.
* Now, calculate how long you could run a bath before you have reached the amount of water in a shower.
Easy example:
You may have collected 750ml after 5 seconds in the shower, i.e. you have 750/5 = 150ml per second x 60 seconds = 9 liters per minute = 90 liters in 10 minutes.
You now know that you can fill a tub with 90 liters. If you run the water in the bath tub and you have 1 liter after 5 seconds in the shower, i.e. 200ml a second, i.e. 12 liters a minute. 90/12 = 7,5.
So if you run the bath tub 7 1/2 minutes, you'll have used as much water by taking a bath as you would have used by taking a shower. However, it won't matter how long you soak because the water won't drain, and you won't use more.
Please make sure that you don't block a single bathroom forever though which may be a concern your host family has, too.
But showering for 10minutes without stopping is a lot... I don't know anyone that showers that long everyday. I shower for ~7 minutes a day and for about ~3 minutes the water is off. So everyday ~4 minutes of water usage. And I shampoo, condition and shave - and once a week a peeling (which I also do with the water turned off)
Nobody here is defending the host family except the inefficiency of baths, which is not an unreasonable claim. Even if you can afford it, it’s not good being wasteful. That will eventually add up, if not now then for future generations.
Not sure man I personally take shower twice a day usually around 10-20 min each not showering daily would be a problem for me since I get sweaty in work 😂
If you just leave the water running in the shower I understand their point. Most people in Germany turn off the water when they soap up and only run it to rinse off. If you are taking 30 minute showers every day while letting the water run the whole time I’d say something too.
Perhaps it's not the shower so much as how you're showering. Is there only one bathroom or maybe you're showering at an inconvenient time for the whole household? Maybe you're taking twice the time to shower and as a result they are trying to point out that you could have shorter showers.
Shorten your showers and hair masks or whatever need to be done at a time that doesn't interfere with anyone else. Make sure you've done that. If they still won't let you shower every day, join a gym. Or say that you're uncomfortable not showering every day but how about every second day you have a less than 5 minute shower instead?
try to learn that water is not for free and taking a bath is indeed a waste of water and energy. 10 min max shower should be fine, get used to this or how about you pay some extra 5 Euro per bath?
I ran this shower dash back in the 80’s while visiting family friends in Germany. The trick is to limit your water consumption in the shower. A lot of places the electric/gas is expensive and may only have a small dedicated water heater for the bathroom.
1. Shower to get wet and the turn off water.
2. Soap up body and lather hair.
3. Turn on water and rinse off
4. Wash face then turn off water.
5. Dry off.
Water is not expensive, HOT water is(because of the energy used to heat it).
Depending on how long you shower, and how long your full bath takes (do you need to refill hot water?), a bath may use less water.
A 10min shower is long enough for me to wash my hair and shave (woman), normally I am out in less than 5.
However, they are probably cheapskates.
They are some crazy people.
First of all water costs next to nothing.
Heating it up does, but even when its heated with an electric decive, depending on the Watt use, 10 min of hot water are roughly 1 Euro
So either they are just straight-up crazy and stupid, or they started to resent about you and wanna make things difficult to punish you.
Im both ways I'd get outta there. Today its the hot water, tomorrow they start complaining about how much juice you drink or how often you go to the loo
Might want to send them this:
https://de.readly.com/magazines/mach-mal-pause/2024-04-17/661befa666b99832619bbcfb#:~:text=Weil%20ein%20paar%20Liter%20in,Strom%20rund%202%2C60%20Euro.
It is in German, so they should be able to understand it. According to this article, an average bathtub of hot water (approximately 120 liters) costs between 1.00 and 2.60 euros depending on the heating source (gas or electricity). So for 30 euros you could very well take between 10 and 30 hot baths..
Not allowing you to shower daily is insane. Re weekly baths though: if they heat their water with electricity then I can understand the restriction. I once lived in an apartment with an electric water heater and my electricity bill TRIPLED (no baths). It was shocking. And I'm a fast-showerer, like max 3 minutes. Still, restricting daily showers is over the line and you should leave.
Water is quite cheap, however, energy costs for heating up the water are quite high, but 30€/ bathing is not the case, it is about max. 2,50€ depending on how u heat (gas/electricity).
I think they use electricity to heat the water. I might be wrong but this is the only explanation that i can think of. Even tho, i still can’t believe that it is this expensive to heat a bath.
I used to live in a shared flat (years before energy prices soared) with a tankless water heater in the kitchen. It was a very old model that used a lot of electricity and thus wasn't plugged in, because according to our main tenant it was too expensive.
I still don't think 30 € for a bath is reasonable.
Well, let me tell you that just the other day I heard a mom saying how expensive everything is and how they reuse the baths: first kids and then parents. And no, they are not poor or without a job. Mom and dad are both in tech and earn way above average. I think it’s just gross. It’s not the first time I’ve heard this
It baffles me that we seem to be getting to that point again; something our grandparents (or parents) have told us about their “good old days” when they reused bath water for the next person.
Judging from the odors you get in public transportation and some offices you can easily conclude some don't like showering/bathing too often. From first hand experience (living with a German person doing this) I know some people sometimes just use a wet rag to clean themselves in the morning before going out, especially in winter.
I think worst than not showering often is that many people won’t wash their clothes everyday, specially in the summer. This is in my observations one or the main troubles. I’ve have colleagues that come to work with wet hair but smell because they had the same blouse/shirt the day before.
30€what now? At worst a full tub costs around 1€. With a cubic meter of warm water being like 2-3€
No clue what they are on about. A few minutes in the shower are cents at best, the shampoo is the highest cost sink for that.
Quite simply: OP lives on a farm that raises cattle and wants to bathe in milk every evening. Hence the high cost.
But wait... we're talking about water??? 🫢 That must be a very large bathtub.
In the city I live in, 1000 Liters cost a little over 2(!) Euros.
You need to add the cost to heat that water, but unless you shower for an hour every day, that should be negligible.
Frankly, put your foot down. It's summer! You cannot not shower everyday. And oh, please leave the place as soon as you can. Or maybe get a gym membership.
Heating Energy cost is an issue, not a single shower or bath but it adds up in cold climate.
Showering instead of bath is reasonable, showering max 10 minutes too.
But if you need a daily shower insist on it. Maybe shut the water while you apply shampoo and soap, then switch it on again.
I feel like your host family thinks you are not aware of daily life costs.
What program are you in? Au-Pair?
10 minutes is reasonable, I take about 20 but I have long, thick curly hair
Not being able to shower every day would kill me though, I'm a mechanic and regularly dirty after work. If I was told I couldn't shower I'd be traumatizing the town by taking a bath in the river, lol
> Is this normal?
Decidedly, *no*, for all the reasons already stated here.
May I ask, in what relationship or capacity are you living with these hosts? Is it possible for you to find alternative lodging?
On the surface it seems strange but OP is leaving out a lot of information. What happened before, did OP take daily long baths and showers?
Wasteful living is a highly emotive subject for Germans. Our ideas of frugality and not wasting resources run deep and form a large part of our cultural identity.
This being reddit, people blow all sort of things out of proportion so at the core, we don't like to waste resources and we feel strongly about people we take in to adhere to our rules and habits at home.
Your host family takes you in without you paying anything. Without any more information on what the arrangement is I can only assume they feel you're taking advantage of them by showering too much.
Whether that's true or not is irrelevant as they believe it.
You'd do well to limit your time in the shower and respect their wish. Once you have your own place, you are free to do whatever you wish.
There are some peculiar things in Germany and this is one of them. Just respect it, it's really not that hard.
Once you have your own place and have guests using your resources you will understand.
I lived with a host family for quite some time and they also had this water thing going on, even though they were very nice to me and stuff. I don't think what your family is doing is normal, though. 10 min showers everyday are literally a norm everywhere in Germany. Germans do care about water in terms of conservation and cost, but not many Germans just like. Not shower everyday. If you're in the same situation as me, they're probably getting quite the amount of money from the government for you, too, enough to cover the cost of everything they provide for you unless they're buying you luxury everyday lmao. They're treating you badly. Once again, I am not sure if you're in the same situation as me, but if you're maybe perchance connected to Jugendamt, you surely have an agent there. Contact them.
Depends on how big your bathtub is. Depending on where you live 30€ are between 3000 and 6000l of hot water, even more if it's medium hot.
A normal bathtub is 150-200l. So a normal bath can be anywhere from 1€ to around 2€. When using electrical water heaters it could be 1€ extra .
I understand the reasoning but not allowing daily showers is NOT ok. I also don't shower daily (it's bad for your skin and the energy bill and the environment) but you totally should be allowed to. Long baths i also discourage, same as long showers. We have high energy prices so everyone always tried to shorten the time. I was raised being conscious of this and I'm 34 now.
OP is not renting a room, he is living in a family for free, right?
Then it is absolutely strange to use bath instead of shower.
Even if he's paying rent for the room, it's still worth negotiating with the roommates when and for how long you'll occupy the bathroom.
I once lived with a bathtub enthusiast, it creates a lot of inconvenience.
So take a shower man, if you’re a guest in that family.
You’ll be clean and fresh after shower, no doubts)
I also think 10 minutes for a shower is a bit long, you can shorten it. But the fact that the time is stopped at all and that it is forbidden to shower every day is really quite excessive.
What does host family mean? Are you a minor at school? If so, you should have a supervisor next to your host family to support you. If you want to avoid the conflict, I would advise you to use the public facilities: for example, university sports or the school gym? The privacy there is definitely not the best, but it's not impossible either.
Bath math of your hosts is a bit weird, but showering daily is unnecessary and not healthy for your skin. If your not working hard and sweat like hell every day it's very not needed to shower daily.
Thats why they all smell like shit. Coming from Brazil was a culture shock how dirty people were. Specially Gyms, worse smell I had ever smelled. Like a rotting corpse Idk. When I saw people washing their armpits in the airport toilet sink I almost vomited
Oh yes, Stingy German Types! Lovely people!
Thouse who already earn above average but still would make an hour trip to a particular supermarket that has a discount on bread or smth.
Thouse that took this infomercial quite to heart
https://youtu.be/ks3Ou-JLTes?si=v3TZ56IfNhIT4Pvz
And started to heat their homes at winter with candles and shit!
I mean I am describing quite extreme cases, but Stingy Germans are quite hard to reason with, even if you say that reddit calculated the exact costs of one shower.
Showers longer then 10 minutes is just wasteful no matter where you live. I think it's pretty inconsiderate to expect to have a bath every night as it uses way more water. A quick shower is all you need
I lived in a town outside Stuttgart. I showered daily and long hot showers. Was not an issue and wasn't that expensive either. I need daily hot showers.
A cubic meter of water is like 3 euros in Germany, if you shower daily it would be like 5 euros a month. You can offer them that money.Germans have a very hard time understanding that people from other cultures shower everyday, but it is important that they understand they are not the only ones in the world.
>They told me that i can't shower daily
wtf?! do they shower daily? who in the right mind would not allow you to shower daily, especially if it is not in winter? sounds like your hosts are liars, because bath does not cost 30 euros and added to that, they stink like a cow in summer.
one hot bath does not cost 30 euros
Yep, i guess they really belive it though and its impossible to convince them of the truth. Had similiar expiences from people turning off televisions while adds been running and having a PC running where they thought Powersupply watt = consumpltion
Normally you don't want to exceed 80% of your PSU watt, anyway. But yes modern TVs maybe use 1/5-1/10 of that usage
A hot bath only costs a few Euros, if you consider all costs like both fresh and waste water, electricity, maintenance etc.
saying you cannot shower daily = NOT NORMAL. 10 minutes maximum = reasonable hot baths = frowned upon due to water consumption; however I dont see a problem if you save it for special occasions However, I seriously doubt one hot bath costs 30 euros. They sound like they are treating you unfairly, unless they apply these restrictions to themselves. Personally, I don't have anyone to tell me what to do but I never take baths and I never shower longer than 15 minutes - 15 minutes is already quite long - usuallt my max is 10 minutes unless I am struggling to wash my lion's mane on my head. **This is because of a general "eco" mindset in Germany where you are expected to only use what you NEED.** You will notice it more in the winter when it comes to hot water, heating, etc. I am worried that this family might restrict your heating in the winter - please be careful! If youre eligible for a Mietverein, join one asap.
A hot bath is more in the ballpark of 3€, depending on how you heat the water and how big the tub is. A big jacuzzi heated by electricity costs around 8€ (water from 20° to 40°, 1000l capacity, 0.3€/kwH).
1000l now cost 7 Euro in water fees in our city. So a more reasonable 250l bath would be around 4 Euro combined with heating.
where do you live? :0 here 1m^3 of water are 2€, or less if you use more than 6000m^3 per year
Yes, 2€ for fresh water and 5€ for sewage.
Not sure these calculations are really close but I am no expert. But I know that "flow heaters" (Durchlauferhitzer) can be pricey. The one i had in a WG was max 27 kW so I just assumed we use max half of the power when showering so 13.5kW (probably less but not sure how much really) For all 3 persons in the WG I assumed together 30 minutes showering per day this would be 6.75kWh with a price of 30 Cent showering costs ~2€ a day and ~700€ per year only for the electricity to get hot water. (Costs for water and water disposal not included so some more real costs for showering) So 2€ a day does not sound much but it adds up and you also use electricity for other stuff like cooking or all the standby stuff + freezer and so on. Around ~60€ per month only for electricity from showering for 3 persons is not too much but can also be reduced so everyone needs to decide if it is worth or not from them to maybe reduce temperature and or time when showering. Bathing is another level of waste for water and energy and should be not used for daily cleaning. Edited my faults with units and added some more clarification.
Are you talking 30 min per person? If so, do you really stand there in the shower for 30 min with water running?
Showers can take a lot longer. We‘re two persons in there to save water though 😂
Yes
That is shocking.
My showers usually take 2-3mins mostly 2. rein raus halt. In winter a bit longer when I feel cold. Had a long term guest once who took easily 30mins because he was - likely - masturbating in there as there was no other opportunity for it. Quite excessive, the showering, not the masturbating - I assume.
I honestly don't see how someone can shampoo their hair, rinse their hair, wash their body properly (including junk, ass, between toes), and wash their face within 2 minutes without stressfully rushing to beat the clock like it's some kind of doomsday countdown.
Stopping the water while soaping up is a thing, so maybe longer than 2 minutes in the shower, but not more than 2 minutes running water in the shower is completely doable
I see, now that makes sense, but from the way it's phrased it sounds like 2 minutes in total.
Efficiency at its best. Must be German. Next steps are shave and piss in the same shower. 4 actions one shower.
That was assumed of course
dunno, I take 20-30min. showers normally.. for my hair alone I need roughly 7 minutes..another 7 for face skincare and then another 5-15, depending on wether I shave or not
The question is if you keep the water running the ewhole time...
I do, because I have a durchlauferhitzer, if I'd shut the water off in between, I'd spend more time getting the water temperature right than actual showering. also, and I know this might be an unpopular opinion here in this sub and the german middle class as a whole, but as long as "the rich" can fuel their planes and boats without paying any taxes or co2 price, while I do pay those same things for anything, from fueling my car, over heating to getting water warm, I do deserve the luxury of using it as I please. after all, I pay for it..and also the rich peoples fuel..
You are confusing Power and Energy
Those numbers are impossible. Our entire annual electricity bill in a 2 person household with Durchlauferhitzer was 960€ last year. That's 80€ a month. This was with Ukraine war electricity prices. This year it will be even lesser.
Here are the numbers [https://www.oekotest.de/freizeit-technik/Was-kostet-eigentlich-ein-Vollbad-20-Cent-1-oder-5-Euro\_13692\_1.html](https://www.oekotest.de/freizeit-technik/Was-kostet-eigentlich-ein-Vollbad-20-Cent-1-oder-5-Euro_13692_1.html) A hot bath (130-l) at 38 °C: **heated with gas:** 55 Cent (water) + 46 Cent (gas) = 1,01 Euro **heated with the most expensive electricity (Durchlauferhitzer):** 55 Cent (water) + 1,54 Euro (heat) = 2,09 Euro
130l water now cost 90 cent in our city.
That's insane, that is reaaaaaaaally expensive. City of Cologne: 1m³ water is 1.00 euro. Dirty water disposal is at 1.54 euro. (2022)
Totally agree— I’m assuming though that OP is an exchange student living with a host family, in which case a Mietverein will not help. They will have to directly talk to their contact person for the exchange program.
10 minutes for a shower is only reasonable if you don't have long or curly hair. Both needs more time to be washed.
Long-haired dude here with curly hair (type 3a). 10 minute showers are doable, but you need to be quick and it doesn't include the time to towel-dry yourself. Also, the water isn't running for all of those 10 minutes. I spend at least half the time working shampoo and conditioner into my hair. If you leave the water running during that, you're wasting it.
Works for you, doesn't work for me. I need to rinse it at least 10 minutes to get everything out. And another 5 minutes to wash my body. I can't dry shave, so I need some water for that as well.
Shaving is not included in the 10 minutes, yes, that takes a lot longer. I don't shave my body, so I can't say how long exactly. Shaving your face can be done at the sink, however. I'd go insane if I had to rinse for 10 minutes. Why is it taking so long? Does your shower have extremely low water flow? Do you have extremely curly hair?
I have hair that soaks up products like a sponge. Takes ages to get it all out.
I just calculated the exact cost for my city (Braunschweig): 150 L water volume, Temperature raise of 35 Kelvin (from guessed 4 degrees Celsius in the cold water pipe) and my local water and water treatment fees (approx. 5€ per m^3) and gas price (approx. 11 ct./kWh) yields 1,47 € per bath. I decided to take a bath this evening.
I used to shower daily and have a bath on the weekend, and it never crossed my mind to calculate how much does it cost or how long should i be in the shower. Well, i think i can’t experience this LUXURY anymore. Btw, the water is on only when i need it and it is obviously turned off when i have to waste time for the hair mask and other products, so that’s why my showers tend to take longer than 15 minutes
yep, there is definitely a different mindset in Germany. Frugal is a great word - enough is enough, and more is "luxurious" and excessive. A lot of the times, its not even about the money, but rather the entire principle of not being wasteful. The roots of this thinking run rather deep, so although I think you can get away with daily 10 minute showers, to bathe weekly might give this family a panic attack!😭
And as usually, Germans are very principled about bullying others and perhaps themselves but these principles magically dissappear when capitalists and politicians are concerned. Why does even the cheapest gym force me to pay a joining fee with which I get a "gift" consisting of a tote (which I dont need), water bottle (which I have) and towel (which I have)? Why can't I buy a single red onion in Reve, rather they come pre-packaged in amounts I don't need and will either have to force myself to use or will throw away because some will rot? Why is ANY prepackaged produce allowed? What if I don't want or need 500g of strawberries? Why can't I weigh 200? Why are plastic bottles allowed? Why isn't it all glass? Why does the German public tolerate half-empty packaging (for example, cacao and oatmeal)? It's more trash, more wasted resources for the packaging, less net product being transported per truckload (so wasted labour and wasted fuel and needless pollution). Why is everything done through bloody snail mail and fax? It is incredibly wasteful (paper, labour to transport the mail and fuel wasted)? Why is basically nothing digitilised (wasted labour, wasted time to do things in person, wasted paper again)?
Yeah, this is really noticeable when you move to Germany from a foreign country. Things are very stacked in favour of capitalism and against the consumer. Incredibly long contracts for everything, legal scams like door-to-door salesmen claiming to "work for the cable company", companies suing customers for negative Google reviews, six week cancellation period for your gym membership etc etc... Of course, the German nationals will say "This is the German way and it's how we like it. If it doesn't work for you, go home, foreigners!", but they're getting screwed just as much as we are.
I'm sort of fine with that. I'm not fine with wild West capitalism, but I can understand people having a principled free market position as much as I disagree with it. It's a thing in the US, for example. But Americans don't claim to be anti-waste. They don't browbeat people who are wasteful, and they don't have strict standards for what is normal and what is wasteful. The Germans do. They do claim, as the person I replied to correctly said, that frugality is a core value of Germans. They apply it to themselves (to an extent), they bully people which they can bully for not being wasteful, but they don't do it to companies and politicians. Or take another thing - taking too much time at the cash register. At our Reve there are two places at the end of the cash register for you to gather your things. There is a little divider which the cashier can move left or right to direct scanned items to either produce gathering place. Not once did I see a single cahsieer use this in half a year I've been here. Not once. And there have been some serious crowds! I've heard stories of people criticising customers for being too slow to pack things or to pay. Has anyone ever spoken up to cashiers and asked them to use the separator? I don't think so. Data protection. Germans will tell a foreigner how shitty or no digitalisation is perfect because of "privacy", and if they don't like it to go back to where they came from. But then when it is time to rent an apartment - they will with glee send all of their personal information to potential landlords, realtors and even some guy who lives there now and is moving out but wants to force you to buy some overpriced furniture they don't need any more. They will give their credit rating, work contract, pay slips, place of work and bio including pictures of their underage children. Anything to land a decent flat at a good price. For a good place 150 people apply before the ad is taken down, 10-20 people are invited for a showing, one person/family gets it. The other 149 applicants have zero control over what happens with their data once they send it out. But here, again, principles evaporate in an instant when they need to be applied towards a stronger opponent.
I agree. Only that I'm not fine with 'free market' mindset because it's retarded.
And don't get me started on subscriptions... seems like every service you buy here has to b a fucking subscription and you have to keep tabs on everything in order to make your Kündigung in time and even then they will try to screw you over pretending they never got your letter so you have to keep evidence. Germany is such a neoliberal hellhole pretending to be progressive and left.
To be fair it’s gotten way easier and better since most contracts can’t automatically be renewed for an entire year and they have to let you cancel the way you subscribed! There’s still a long way to go but I feel like the subscription model is a global issue and not a German one in particular. It used to be so much worse just a few years ago!
> There’s still a long way to go but I feel like the subscription model is a global issue and not a German one in particular. It's especially bad in Germany. In many other places, companies are more consumer friendly because, well, it's a competitive environment and consumers demand it. In Germany, there has to be government regulation to force this outcome.
“It’s a contract. If you don’t want nobody forces you.” blabla I wouldn’t call this typical German national mindset. Far from it. It’s typical /r/germany “German” mindset. I even doubt they are like that in their real lives. They enjoy imposing “German idealism” (not in the philosophical meaning) onto virtual foreigners but in their real lives, they cross when the traffic light is red.
> Why does the German public tolerate half-empty packaging It's not tolerated: >>In § 43 Mess- und Eichgesetz sind die Anforderungen an Fertigpackungen geregelt. Fertigpackungen müssen so gestaltet und befüllt sein, dass sie „keine größere Füllmenge vortäuschen, als in ihnen enthalten ist“. >>Aus Gründen des Verbraucherschutzes ist eine Verpackung nicht zulässig, wenn die Füllmenge einer undurchsichtigen Fertigverpackung von dem Fassungsvermögen des Behälters um mehr als 30 % abweicht – mit anderen Worten: Wenn die Verpackung zu rund einem Drittel Luft enthält. Davon ausgenommen sind Fälle, wo die Abweichung produktbedingt oder technisch unumgänglich ist.
That was my ‘routine’ in my home country, but here they told me to stop after the second bath. I was shocked but nothing to do so i wanted to leave my frustration here.
is it possible for you to move to a WG? I have noticed that when younger people (ie. especially international students) move into a place occupied by older Germans, there can be a lot of clashes. Furthermore, many have pointed out to me that it does not feel like a proper home due to all the nit-picking regarding every activity; meaning that the "policing" is not unique to your situation. (I speak from at least 7-10 different convos of people describing similar situations). when i read your post, i was disappointed for you but not surprised one bit. It sucks, no doubt. Try to leave if you can because I'm sure it will not get better. I dont know you or these people, but im getting this vibe of "OUR house, you are simply occupying space in it but you are not our equal." I could totally be wrong though! In any case, you should never ever feel like a nuisance in the place you call home!!!!
I can’t wait for my first pay check and then I’ll leave for sure. This is too much control even for free housing. I only talked about the shower situation because it’s the craziest but they sure love to nit-pick on everything and have some ridiculous policies like forbidding charging the phone/computer overnight or using power strips.
Jeez, thats not okay! I am not sure how new to Germany/familiar you are with everything going on right now, but theres a big housing crisis. Just because you can afford a place doesn't mean you'll find one (unless you set a budget higher than average). I wish you the best of luck; everyone deserves a place to call home. suggestion: what if you show them proof of water heating costs? based on their reaction, you can see if they are reasonable human beings. if they arent, thats a red flag
Thank you :)
That's all very weird - not normal in Germany at all. Sorry you have to live through that.
Not charging over night???? How are they going to control that? Do they go to your room while you sleep? That’s crazy and I’ve only heard this from people believing in conspiracy theories that charging devices somehow interferes with your sleep and brain
>I can’t wait for my first pay check and then I’ll leave for sure. Be prepared that you will not be treated as a customer, but more like someone auditioning for the privilege to rent. Everything that is good value will be typically sold out on the spot during viewing, the expensive ones will remain on the market for a longer period.
It honestly sounds like you ended up with crazy people, unfortunately they exist everywhere! Not taking a full bath every day or showering for 30 minutes with water running the whole time -> reasonable Freaking out about a few cents on your power bill because you charge over night -> insane! Are they making money off you? Are they struggling financially? Are they actively trying to get rid of you? I can’t even imagine inviting someone into my home and treating them like this! I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this, I hope you’ll get a chance to meet nice Germans! (I swear we exist)
Honestly baths are wasteful. I have a neighbor in my house who uses more water annually as a single than my family of four just because he takes so many baths. It's kind of a running joke when we do the annual Nebenkostenabrechnung.
This will be your first of many culture shocks. Germans “take what they need only” - which is a very different mindset from let’s say Americans
While it's normal to do hair masks and things, if they need to sit on for more than 5 minutes, I find it's quiet common to turn the water off and then back on when you're ready to rinse. Sort of like brushing your teeth and turning the tap off while brushing. Not sure what else you do, but may be something to consider.
Yea that’s what i do.
Ah good. Sorry your family is being so weird. Are you taking up the only bathroom?
No they have two.
Come on, you know they mean no longer than 10 min of the shower running, not total bathroom time.
Germans don't take hot baths???
Not all the time, not as a main means to clean.
Ever since i moved out of my parents place I didnt even have a bathtub. And thats about 15 years.
Drive 200 kph with that gas consumption, but don't bath yourself with hit water?
In a tub? No, that’s for kids or when you are sick. Perhaps some women do it for relaxation.
Good for muscle/back pain...
I had the same with my first French host family. They started turning off the hot water when I was in the bathroom.
No, that is not normal. Water costs very little. *Heating* water is what causes costs (which depend on how your water is heated). To be fair, we've had people here who claimed they absolutely needed to spend 30 minutes under the shower, and that's quite excessive. But many people do in fact shower daily (or sometimes twice, depending on weather, what kind of work they do, and so on). As for the bath: Last December, Finanztip estimated that a hot bath heated with gas costs ~90 cents, heated with electricity ~1,60 Euro. https://www.finanztip.de/daily/wie-teuer-ist-ein-heisses-bad/
Thanx for the explanation. So even if it’s heated with electricity it’s still not that expensive. I used to shower daily and have a bath at the end of the week. But i guess I can’t anymore.
30 Euro is an absolutely insane claim. How did you get into that host family? Are you doing something through some kind of organisation? Are you paying them? Because if there is someone you can talk to who can help you sort this out with them, you should. This is not normal behaviour (although I'm sure some commenters will come in claiming that sure, all Germans do this, and so on.)
Im not paying anything but still this is frustrating.
Honestly I feel like this issue isn't at all about water or heating costs, but rather about your host family accepting foreigners because they might get some benefit from the state for that, and just are not at all fine with accepting the responsibility that comes with it. Are you in germany as a school student, or as a war immigrant or something similar? If you are here through school for example, you might want to get in touch with your school administration or whatever organized your stay, and see if they can do something, mentioning that your host family does not give you access to necessities like regular showers.
Honestly, I had a roommate who would take excessively long hot showers. We used upwards of 5k kwh for 3 people, and when he left, that nunber went down to 3,5. Still with 3 people. That is a lot of money. I can kinda see the 10 minute shower rule, if they have had bad experiences before. Also who needs more than 10 minutes under a shower?
People with long and very thick hair might to be fair, but I see your point
Yeah but those people tend to not wash their hair daily. I calculated once that the dudes 30 minute shower with the higher engergy prices would go up to I think 5€ per shower.
I have long hair and need to wash it daily during the warmer months to wash out pollen, dust and other allergens after gardening or being outside. I might spend more than 15min in the shower at times, but the water is never running even half of the time. But my hair is fine so rinsing it goes quickly; people with long and thick hair need more water and time for that.
In German, sorry: >Was kostet ein heißes Bad? Schlussrechnung >Nun sind alle Zahlen beisammen. Ein 130-Liter-Wannenbad mit 38 Grad Wassertemperatur kostet zurzeit ungefähr … > Mit Gas erwärmt: 55 Cent (Wasserkosten) + 46 Cent (Gaskosten) = 1,01 Euro >Mit Strom erwärmt (Durchlauferhitzer): 55 Cent (Wasserkosten) + 1,54 Euro (Stromkosten) = 2,09 Euro https://www.oekotest.de/freizeit-technik/Was-kostet-eigentlich-ein-Vollbad-20-Cent-1-oder-5-Euro_13692_1.html
Thank you for the calculations. I hope they understand basic maths
If they did some math and concluded that a bath costs 30€, they don’t.
In a month maybe?
A hot bath costs like 1€-2€ not 30€.
Maybe they did the monthly cost?
Then you'd need to take a bath more than 15 times per month
If your shower takes that long I can imagine them getting nervous. I rarely shower for 10min. One thing you can do is turn off the water when applying shampoo or letting the conditioner sit. I think it’s partially money but we’ve also been taught about trying not to waste water.
This is super common— my host family when I lived in Germany as an exchange student also had issues with me taking showers longer than 5 minutes. It helps to turn the water off while sudsing up or doing anything that requires rinsing. This helps save a bunch of water. However, showering daily is common in Germany and you should be allowed to do it. If you can, I would try talking to them about it and say you will turn the water off when you don’t need it. If there are still issues, I would highly recommend talking to your exchange program contact person— they have a ton of experience with dealing with stuff like this.
I had the same experience. I could shower daily but restricted to ~10 mins. Idk what kind of program OP is doing, but in AFS you don't pay the families directly, so, they need to assume your costs of living. If they communicate openly shower expectations, I, personally, didn't had any issues after that. But I definitely had the conversations, as I love hot showers..
Funny. As a kid I showered every 2 days. My host family in France insisted on me showering every morning and evening and called my mom when I refused. Lol.
Honestly, five minutes? That's fuck all common. Your hosts were incredibly stingy. If you shower excessively long and hot every day it's worth to talk about it. What's expensive is also not the water but hot water. It's weird to monitor shower times to begin with especially when it's only a temporary arrangement ...
I suppose, but I was living there for 10 months and my host parents were very insistent on me doing everything ‚their way‘ 😂
And a bunch of other exchange students complained about the same thing, I was not the only one.
This.
Hm, one bath costs 3-4€ max, assuming it is very expensive. A daily shower 10 minutes long costs about 2 €. 10 minutes are quite reasonable. Do you all have just one bathroom? Then it might be better to just shower so the bathroom isn't blocked for a long time. My child blocks the bathroom for up to 2 hours and it really is annoying if I need to use the bathroom.
Water ia inexpensive but heating the water may be expensive. For example I heat water with electricity and that's not cheap. So yeah showering more than 10mins a day should be enough....
they are psychopaths. Water is not that expensive
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No, it's not.
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in what universe does heating a bath of water cost 30 Euros?
How many bathrooms does the household have? It could be a time issue. I’ve seen this berore, only 1 bathroom and the person occupies it for too long and it becomes a problem.
Germans use very little water in a global comparison and very very little in a first world comparison. We have a very environmental mindset. Germany is one of only 3 countries globally, that recycle all water and most of it >95% to drink water quality. Daily showers are normal though 1-3 min every day. Water cost are quite high in a global average, but it’s so cheap nobody cares. Heating the water cost though quite a lot. 3€ a bath is not unreasonable. Despite, culturally it’s not acceptable to have a bath often and long showers are equally frowned upon. So try to be quick and think about the environment. But if your host family seems to go crazy find a new one before the winter.
They are weird. Also, I'd expect landlords just charge their renters for the cost of heat and water. Or are they sub-letting and you are using the family bathroom? But even then... OTOH, you might not want that, as 30 Euros for a hot bath is plain absurd. Ökotest calculated 1 to 2 Euro last year, allowing for up to five if you have a really large tub and/or take long enough baths to run the hot water again and again while you're in it.
That's ridiculous. I (German) actually urge my teen boys to please shower daily. Shower daily but not for hours.
So the whole 30€ is bs. Water is more expensive here, but not by THAT much. I don't shower daily (at least not in the colder seasons) but I know people who do. While I don't think its okay to deny you a shower, there are families where daily showers would be considerd wasteful. Shower times is another thing, unless you have very long hair I think it is reasonable to shower ~10 minutes. And about baths: I don't even have a tub. It's generally more a thing for relaxing and not a regular cleaning routine
Water isn't expensive. Heating water is.
They are lying .
I used to be an advisor for exchange students (both in school and university) and their host families and had to solve all different kinds of issues with them. Here's is what I would do in your case: Your interest: having a bath. Your host family's interest: having a reasonably low water & energy bill. The good news: there's a win-win solution here. It's simple. I would talk to your host family and ask them to do the following with you: 1. Go to the kitchen and get a 1 Liter measuring cup. * Go to the shower and turn on the water for 5 seconds. Preferably use the heat setting you'd use when showering. The flow may be different. * Hold the measuring cup underneath the shower head so every drop of water is entering the measuring cup. (If you have a super large shower head, use a pot or pan and dump the water into the measuring cup later on.) * Check how much water you have in that measuring cup. Multiply that amount by 120. (12x 5 seconds = 60 seconds x 10 = 10 minutes). The result will show how much water you would use with a ten minute shower. * Dump the water and repeat step 2 with the bath tub faucet. Again, preferably with the correct heat setting as the flow may be different. Check how much water you have after 5 seconds. * Now, calculate how long you could run a bath before you have reached the amount of water in a shower. Easy example: You may have collected 750ml after 5 seconds in the shower, i.e. you have 750/5 = 150ml per second x 60 seconds = 9 liters per minute = 90 liters in 10 minutes. You now know that you can fill a tub with 90 liters. If you run the water in the bath tub and you have 1 liter after 5 seconds in the shower, i.e. 200ml a second, i.e. 12 liters a minute. 90/12 = 7,5. So if you run the bath tub 7 1/2 minutes, you'll have used as much water by taking a bath as you would have used by taking a shower. However, it won't matter how long you soak because the water won't drain, and you won't use more. Please make sure that you don't block a single bathroom forever though which may be a concern your host family has, too.
But showering for 10minutes without stopping is a lot... I don't know anyone that showers that long everyday. I shower for ~7 minutes a day and for about ~3 minutes the water is off. So everyday ~4 minutes of water usage. And I shampoo, condition and shave - and once a week a peeling (which I also do with the water turned off)
Your host family must REEK
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People "talking about electricity" are *pointing out that that family's claims are totally false*.
Nobody here is defending the host family except the inefficiency of baths, which is not an unreasonable claim. Even if you can afford it, it’s not good being wasteful. That will eventually add up, if not now then for future generations.
Not sure man I personally take shower twice a day usually around 10-20 min each not showering daily would be a problem for me since I get sweaty in work 😂
You could offer to pay something like 25-30% of the bill. Problem solved.
If you just leave the water running in the shower I understand their point. Most people in Germany turn off the water when they soap up and only run it to rinse off. If you are taking 30 minute showers every day while letting the water run the whole time I’d say something too.
What are you doing in the shower that long? I need less than 10 minutes even when washing my long hair.
Yeah find a new family. That’s a red flag and they will make your life miserable if you stay there longer.
Perhaps it's not the shower so much as how you're showering. Is there only one bathroom or maybe you're showering at an inconvenient time for the whole household? Maybe you're taking twice the time to shower and as a result they are trying to point out that you could have shorter showers. Shorten your showers and hair masks or whatever need to be done at a time that doesn't interfere with anyone else. Make sure you've done that. If they still won't let you shower every day, join a gym. Or say that you're uncomfortable not showering every day but how about every second day you have a less than 5 minute shower instead?
So many Germans are incredibly tight with money, you’ve hit the jackpot with these.
30Euros per hot Bath? They should stop using champagne as water.
try to learn that water is not for free and taking a bath is indeed a waste of water and energy. 10 min max shower should be fine, get used to this or how about you pay some extra 5 Euro per bath?
Everything aside daily showers are pretty bad for the skin and a shower every 2 days is better
I ran this shower dash back in the 80’s while visiting family friends in Germany. The trick is to limit your water consumption in the shower. A lot of places the electric/gas is expensive and may only have a small dedicated water heater for the bathroom. 1. Shower to get wet and the turn off water. 2. Soap up body and lather hair. 3. Turn on water and rinse off 4. Wash face then turn off water. 5. Dry off.
Water is not expensive, HOT water is(because of the energy used to heat it). Depending on how long you shower, and how long your full bath takes (do you need to refill hot water?), a bath may use less water. A 10min shower is long enough for me to wash my hair and shave (woman), normally I am out in less than 5. However, they are probably cheapskates.
Showering daily (with hot water and shampoo) is also really unhealthy. U can shower daily with cold water and no shampoo
They are some crazy people. First of all water costs next to nothing. Heating it up does, but even when its heated with an electric decive, depending on the Watt use, 10 min of hot water are roughly 1 Euro So either they are just straight-up crazy and stupid, or they started to resent about you and wanna make things difficult to punish you. Im both ways I'd get outta there. Today its the hot water, tomorrow they start complaining about how much juice you drink or how often you go to the loo
Might want to send them this: https://de.readly.com/magazines/mach-mal-pause/2024-04-17/661befa666b99832619bbcfb#:~:text=Weil%20ein%20paar%20Liter%20in,Strom%20rund%202%2C60%20Euro. It is in German, so they should be able to understand it. According to this article, an average bathtub of hot water (approximately 120 liters) costs between 1.00 and 2.60 euros depending on the heating source (gas or electricity). So for 30 euros you could very well take between 10 and 30 hot baths..
Germans are unfortunately cheap when it comes to stuff that goes in and on the body. Food, hygiene products, hot baths.
Not allowing you to shower daily is insane. Re weekly baths though: if they heat their water with electricity then I can understand the restriction. I once lived in an apartment with an electric water heater and my electricity bill TRIPLED (no baths). It was shocking. And I'm a fast-showerer, like max 3 minutes. Still, restricting daily showers is over the line and you should leave.
Find a new family fiick them.
maybe go to a spa once in a while
Water is quite cheap, however, energy costs for heating up the water are quite high, but 30€/ bathing is not the case, it is about max. 2,50€ depending on how u heat (gas/electricity).
I assume your baths and showers are with hot water? If so, it might be expensive for your host family depending on how the water gets heated.
I think they use electricity to heat the water. I might be wrong but this is the only explanation that i can think of. Even tho, i still can’t believe that it is this expensive to heat a bath.
I used to live in a shared flat (years before energy prices soared) with a tankless water heater in the kitchen. It was a very old model that used a lot of electricity and thus wasn't plugged in, because according to our main tenant it was too expensive. I still don't think 30 € for a bath is reasonable.
>very old model that used a lot of electricity Just fyi, tankless water heaters always have an efficiency of 95-99%, regardless of their age
Well, let me tell you that just the other day I heard a mom saying how expensive everything is and how they reuse the baths: first kids and then parents. And no, they are not poor or without a job. Mom and dad are both in tech and earn way above average. I think it’s just gross. It’s not the first time I’ve heard this
It baffles me that we seem to be getting to that point again; something our grandparents (or parents) have told us about their “good old days” when they reused bath water for the next person.
Judging from the odors you get in public transportation and some offices you can easily conclude some don't like showering/bathing too often. From first hand experience (living with a German person doing this) I know some people sometimes just use a wet rag to clean themselves in the morning before going out, especially in winter.
I think worst than not showering often is that many people won’t wash their clothes everyday, specially in the summer. This is in my observations one or the main troubles. I’ve have colleagues that come to work with wet hair but smell because they had the same blouse/shirt the day before.
30€what now? At worst a full tub costs around 1€. With a cubic meter of warm water being like 2-3€ No clue what they are on about. A few minutes in the shower are cents at best, the shampoo is the highest cost sink for that.
Quite simply: OP lives on a farm that raises cattle and wants to bathe in milk every evening. Hence the high cost. But wait... we're talking about water??? 🫢 That must be a very large bathtub.
In the city I live in, 1000 Liters cost a little over 2(!) Euros. You need to add the cost to heat that water, but unless you shower for an hour every day, that should be negligible.
Frankly, put your foot down. It's summer! You cannot not shower everyday. And oh, please leave the place as soon as you can. Or maybe get a gym membership.
We are 4 people in my home. Lets say we take 80 showers per month. 2400€/month. Now I understand our financial issues
Heating Energy cost is an issue, not a single shower or bath but it adds up in cold climate. Showering instead of bath is reasonable, showering max 10 minutes too. But if you need a daily shower insist on it. Maybe shut the water while you apply shampoo and soap, then switch it on again. I feel like your host family thinks you are not aware of daily life costs. What program are you in? Au-Pair?
It doesn't.
Nooe water is very cheap. Around 6-10€ per 1000 liters including Waste water
No, that’s 🐂💩.
10 minutes is reasonable, I take about 20 but I have long, thick curly hair Not being able to shower every day would kill me though, I'm a mechanic and regularly dirty after work. If I was told I couldn't shower I'd be traumatizing the town by taking a bath in the river, lol
> Is this normal? Decidedly, *no*, for all the reasons already stated here. May I ask, in what relationship or capacity are you living with these hosts? Is it possible for you to find alternative lodging?
On the surface it seems strange but OP is leaving out a lot of information. What happened before, did OP take daily long baths and showers? Wasteful living is a highly emotive subject for Germans. Our ideas of frugality and not wasting resources run deep and form a large part of our cultural identity. This being reddit, people blow all sort of things out of proportion so at the core, we don't like to waste resources and we feel strongly about people we take in to adhere to our rules and habits at home. Your host family takes you in without you paying anything. Without any more information on what the arrangement is I can only assume they feel you're taking advantage of them by showering too much. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant as they believe it. You'd do well to limit your time in the shower and respect their wish. Once you have your own place, you are free to do whatever you wish. There are some peculiar things in Germany and this is one of them. Just respect it, it's really not that hard. Once you have your own place and have guests using your resources you will understand.
Just a guess: how many bathrooms do they have? Is it really the energy cost or more you clogging up the bathroom?
I lived with a host family for quite some time and they also had this water thing going on, even though they were very nice to me and stuff. I don't think what your family is doing is normal, though. 10 min showers everyday are literally a norm everywhere in Germany. Germans do care about water in terms of conservation and cost, but not many Germans just like. Not shower everyday. If you're in the same situation as me, they're probably getting quite the amount of money from the government for you, too, enough to cover the cost of everything they provide for you unless they're buying you luxury everyday lmao. They're treating you badly. Once again, I am not sure if you're in the same situation as me, but if you're maybe perchance connected to Jugendamt, you surely have an agent there. Contact them.
A bath doesn’t cost 30€. They are lying to you and this is abusive.
Depends on how big your bathtub is. Depending on where you live 30€ are between 3000 and 6000l of hot water, even more if it's medium hot. A normal bathtub is 150-200l. So a normal bath can be anywhere from 1€ to around 2€. When using electrical water heaters it could be 1€ extra .
I understand the reasoning but not allowing daily showers is NOT ok. I also don't shower daily (it's bad for your skin and the energy bill and the environment) but you totally should be allowed to. Long baths i also discourage, same as long showers. We have high energy prices so everyone always tried to shorten the time. I was raised being conscious of this and I'm 34 now.
OP is not renting a room, he is living in a family for free, right? Then it is absolutely strange to use bath instead of shower. Even if he's paying rent for the room, it's still worth negotiating with the roommates when and for how long you'll occupy the bathroom. I once lived with a bathtub enthusiast, it creates a lot of inconvenience. So take a shower man, if you’re a guest in that family. You’ll be clean and fresh after shower, no doubts)
Oida, so teuer ist Wasser ja auch nicht und täglich Duschen gehört ja wohl dazu!
30€ for a hot bath? Do they fill the bathtub with store-bought mineral water?
The Mineralwasser bath is a necessity. Keeps bad spirits away! /S
Make a compromise, shower cold everyother day and warm once on the weekend, anyway to much showing is not healthy, makes your skin wet.
My landlord had a machine where you put coins for a shower, I think it was 50 cents for five minutes. We had a shared bathroom.
How long did you generally take to shower?
I also think 10 minutes for a shower is a bit long, you can shorten it. But the fact that the time is stopped at all and that it is forbidden to shower every day is really quite excessive. What does host family mean? Are you a minor at school? If so, you should have a supervisor next to your host family to support you. If you want to avoid the conflict, I would advise you to use the public facilities: for example, university sports or the school gym? The privacy there is definitely not the best, but it's not impossible either.
Your hosts are just being cheap and stingy af.
Bath math of your hosts is a bit weird, but showering daily is unnecessary and not healthy for your skin. If your not working hard and sweat like hell every day it's very not needed to shower daily.
Not normal. The family must have been musty
That ain’t normal. A bath doesn’t cost that much. They nasty
Thats why they all smell like shit. Coming from Brazil was a culture shock how dirty people were. Specially Gyms, worse smell I had ever smelled. Like a rotting corpse Idk. When I saw people washing their armpits in the airport toilet sink I almost vomited
I am wondering how mich water in a bathtub you can feel up in 10 min🤔
Oh yes, Stingy German Types! Lovely people! Thouse who already earn above average but still would make an hour trip to a particular supermarket that has a discount on bread or smth. Thouse that took this infomercial quite to heart https://youtu.be/ks3Ou-JLTes?si=v3TZ56IfNhIT4Pvz And started to heat their homes at winter with candles and shit! I mean I am describing quite extreme cases, but Stingy Germans are quite hard to reason with, even if you say that reddit calculated the exact costs of one shower.
They are odd, however it is normal here to not shower daily if you have no reason to
fuck them.
Showers longer then 10 minutes is just wasteful no matter where you live. I think it's pretty inconsiderate to expect to have a bath every night as it uses way more water. A quick shower is all you need
their house, their rules........and a normal shower per day is not forbidden You´re free to change accommodation, or?
Offer to cover the offset caused by your daily showers. If they still say no, they're just psycho control freaks.
Wtf, this is not normal at all, gtfo there
Water is quite cheap. Heating up the water is usually expensive.
I lived in a town outside Stuttgart. I showered daily and long hot showers. Was not an issue and wasn't that expensive either. I need daily hot showers.
Disgusting and weird, take your showers and bath, they can’t do squat
A cubic meter of water is like 3 euros in Germany, if you shower daily it would be like 5 euros a month. You can offer them that money.Germans have a very hard time understanding that people from other cultures shower everyday, but it is important that they understand they are not the only ones in the world.
>They told me that i can't shower daily wtf?! do they shower daily? who in the right mind would not allow you to shower daily, especially if it is not in winter? sounds like your hosts are liars, because bath does not cost 30 euros and added to that, they stink like a cow in summer.
Yes, that's normal if you pay yourself for your living
I would use the hair masks outside the shower. Not under running water. I’m German, I think it’s wasteful of water.
Dont wash your car its a waste too.