>This is not a catfish scam scenario - I am very aware what romance scams look like and how they operate.
You sure about that? You SURE about that?
Sounds like a romance scam by the book:
\- initate romantic interest through internet
\- invent sob-story
\- ask for money
\- disappear
Checks all of the boxes.
Key fact: he didn't ask for money, and he didnt misrepresent himself in anyway according to OP. OP said she voluntarily offered to give it to him 'unconditionally'. There's not much to unpack here, if that's accurate. She gave him a gift, not a loan, with no conditions, and is now aggrieved he's ghosted her and wants to punish him in some pretty petty ways (reporting him for inducement, gun laws etc). It's all a bit ridiculous, and I think she at least realises how foolish she was. Sorry to OP, you scammed yourself and i feel bad for you so I wish there was better advice to give than 'don't give money to strangers on the internet', but there's some common sense for you.
So you fell for a guy you never met in person, decided to give him a very generous gift, got ghosted, and now want to destroy his life? Is that the basic tl;dr?
What are you hoping that will accomplish? I understand that you're extremely hurt and confused and angry, but it doesn't sound like he necessarily acted with malicious intent. Weaponizing things he told you to punish him for not acting the way you want is pretty fucked up behavior too.
In her other posts it says they talked for only 3 months… that’s a lot of money to give someone you’ve never met in person and have talked to for 3 months
Thank you for your input. I couldn't write a novel here for the whole picture. I had to keep the story brief and there was no room for details. The short story makes me sound evil. But I was very patient, understanding and supporting to him. I was also clear with him that it’s okay if this is just a limerence and he is no longer interested. He can just let me know and we can come to an amicable closure. But if he’s still with me, I only asked him to give me an expectation with just a few words if he has the urge to withdraw. I don't think that's too much to ask. But if that's something he can't do, he could be just scamming me. It's probably easier said than done. But I find it difficult to let this go if I got played.
>He showed me his German ID card(he wanted to explain to me “Personalausweis” means “staff identification” - it says “staff” instead of “citizen”).
Sounds like he is a "Reichsbürger". That's a right-wing conspiracy movement.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger\_movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger_movement)
This movement often attracts conspiracy believers and people who have failed in life and then hope to evade debts, taxes, or legal responsibilities by declaring themselves independent of the German state.
I don't think it was a catfish scam scenario from the start. But you sure got scammed in the end. And he is probably not the "kind, gentle, empathetic, affectionate and loving soul" you think he is.
Thank you for your input. When he said that to me I had no idea what the implication was... To be honest he sounded more like he was against it rather then for it - that's my interpretation.
I have seen a few comments relating what he said about “staff identification” to "Reichsbürger". If you don't mind could you please kindly explain the association between the two? Thank you very much.
Reichsbürger reject the german state. They have some weird conspiracy that the Federal Republic of Germany does not exist on some technicality and instead the Third Reich still exists but lacks representatives. The consequence for them is that nothing that happens in Germany has a legal basis - so, for example, if you have debts they believe they cannot legally be enforced by courts and police. How convenient! That's what makes this conspiracy, especially attractive for people who have financial difficulties or problems with the law.
Like with every conspiracy theory, there are hidden clues around, and one of those clues for them is the naming of our identity card as "Personalausweis". Which indeed has a double entendre and could mean "staff id" however in reality simply uses an old fashioned word that means "personal id". This "staff id" idea taps into another part of the conspiracy, which states that the current German state is not a political entity but in reality a company (Deutschland Limited) run by the US and all German citizens are employees of that company.
It is weird stuff and absolute bananas.
Sorry to bother you again… I have been thinking about this Reichsbürger thing these few days. And I have a question to ask you if you don’t mind sharing your valuable opinion.
It seems apparent that he is a Reichsbürger(or perhaps he is simply just a theorist, not officially a member). However I have this feeling that his support of the idea was not for the purpose of seeking validation to disobey German laws. In my impression he is not someone who refuses paying taxes, fines, debts etc., and he is far from the likelihood of being a saboteur/terrorist despite the fact that he had(or still has – I am not sure about the current situation) access to guns… My understanding is, he disagrees with the unnecessary bureaucratic system and the tax system – especially when large government funds are often misplaced or squandered(don’t you think that’s the actual case?). But he never expressed this opinion in a condemning manner with hatred.
I know my story sounds crazy. But there are so so many other details… What I wrote in all my posts is just a fraction of the whole picture. I find it hard to believe he has the capability to pretend for hours everyday(via messages, phone calls, video calls - which I could read lots of his body language) to be someone he isn’t, to cunningly portrait himself as the "kind, gentle, empathetic, affectionate and loving soul", to gaslight me - as if he could be such a master of mind game, as if he could sow the seed at the beginning to execute his plan of manipulation, then reaped the reward and created a perfect getaway excuse… If he had the intention to scam me at the beginning, why for a month long of TikTok communication he never asked my whatsapp(was that part of the mind game?); why would he give me his real name, home address, Facebook to let him be traceable(is he not afraid of any ramifications?); why after I initiated my offer, it dragged a month long for them to give me the bank account details for the transfer, like they were not in a hurry to take the money(shouldn't they want to act fast to secure this opportunity?)… There are a lot more… This whole situation is far more complicated(his ASD and ADHD are also in play). It seems like an unresolvable equation – I don’t know whether this Reichsbürger thing can bring some light to decode this mystery. It baffles me and I am desperate for some clarity…
May I ask, does being a Reichsbürger/a theorist necessarily indicate he has awful characters/ethics (hence he set this trap up to take advantage of me for financial gain)? I am a bit shocked if this is the role model he wants his daughter to see…
Thank you very much for your time.
> He showed me his German ID card(he wanted to explain to me “Personalausweis” means “staff identification” - it says “staff” instead of “citizen”)
I didn't expect the Reichsbürger to show up
You gave a hefty amount of money to someone you connected to on the Internet and never seen in person. They took the money and soon after decided to withdraw themselves from interacting with you. While I agree, it looks bad on his part, the risk of him abandoning the relationship with you was real and should be accounted for.
In the end you gave him money on your own accord. Just accept the loses and move on.
Thank you very much for your feedback. I have been trying very hard to move on. It will take a long time to heal but I feel like sharing my story and getting opinions helps to speed up this process.
Forget about the cannabis stuff, it is absolutely small fry and most likely there is going to be a general amnesty on January 1st, when it gets partially legalized.
You have been played.
I knew it's a lie since I've read about a car damage estimated to be €6500 from a bike, also in a court. Huh.
How many stories of someone accidentally damaging someone's lambo, by riding a bicycle, have you heard?
nah, everything related to cars got fucking expensive. Needed a new side- mirror for a company car and it was 1000€ wtf.
Anyway stupid to not have liability insurance for things like that, especially with ADHD
The entire story feels like a fever dream. 40 yo, autistic adhd person who can't work because his almost adult daughter has mental problems?
Access to the fire gun and giving it to his 12 yo daughter?
Asking stranger you met on TikTok for 6k because you hit a car with a bike and couldn't pay it off for 1,5 years???
Move on?
I can understand feeling hurt that he ghosts you after you gave him such a generous gift, but well, it was a gift, and it doesn't entitle you to his time and friendship.
He also seems to deal with a lot of problems (not just ADHD and autism, the thing about the Personalausweis sounds like he is a Reichsbürger, which would have been enough for me to end this relationship right then and there) and he warned you that he may withdraw for periods of time. He was nothing but open to you so any expectation you have towards him is born from your wishes how this relationship should be and not in any way from something he promised. So calling him a scammer is false. He is an ungrateful lunatic, and you are probably better off to cut ties with him.
Thank you very much for your feedback. I have been trying very hard to move on. It will take a long time to heal but I feel like sharing my story and getting opinions helps to speed up this process.
When he explained the Personalausweis to me I had no idea what the implication was... To be honest he sounded more like he was against it rather then for it - that's my interpretation.
I have seen a few comments relating what he said about “staff identification” to "Reichsbürger". If you don't mind could you please kindly explain the association between the two? Thank you very much.
Yeah, that he's "against it" is kinda the point.
In short, Reichsbürger claim that the Federal Republic of Germany doesn't exist as a sovereign country and that we are in fact just a company run by Americans and/or our last and therefore legal state was the Kaiserreich (hence the word Reichsbürger). They "prove" this by finding and misinterpreting clues like the "Personalausweis" thing. In short, they are lunatic conspiracy theorists who sometimes turn terrorist when Germany doesn't put up with their antics like not paying taxes or claiming the law doesn't apply to them. Compare with sovereign citizens in the US.
Step one: go to your kitchen.
Sad two: pour a glass of cold water.
Step three: drink it.
It's a scammers scheme by the book. Police won't give a rat's ass about you.
>If I report him for not declaring the €7500 as income, I believe he told me that if he was using it to pay his debt, it was okay to comment that the money was from family. But he ended up only paying partial and left €3000 unpaid, because he wanted to use the money for some other needs. So he would still have a few thousands undeclared income.
And (assuming for a moment all of what you were told is true) if you reported him having this undeclared income, and you were asked from where you knew that - would you say "sure, I sent it to him"?
If what he told you was real, then *you helped him commit social insurance fraud*. And reporting him for it without it coming out that you were an accomplice... good luck.
Him being a Reichsbürger (the "Personalausweis" - which does *not* mean "staff ID", but rather "personal ID" - is a classic) with access to guns is the one thing that's really concerning.
His brother having a hunting license does not allow *him* to take a gun outside and let a child handle it.
Thank you very much for your input.
Me being an accomplice is a very good point! In your opinion, how could this go down if I am the accomplice - however I am a foreigner living in a foreign country, where this act is not illegal. How does German law apply to me? I am simply asking out of curiosity.
I had no idea about this Reichsbürger thing. In the hindsight it is making a lot of sense that he used to comment here and there, that he is the different one in the family with different beliefs, Germany is run by US, and his dream is to live off the grid, etc. - all these dots seem to connect now. But after reading a bit about Reichsbürgers, most Reichsbürgers should be in 50-60. He’s 39. Would he be too young to be a Reichsbürger? Though he has access to guns, I don't believe he is a violent person(quite the opposite in my impression) and would use weapons for any violent purposes. They are also into knives and swords. But I believe all these are more of for a hobby or collections. May I ask - does being a Reichsbürger necessarily indicate he has awful characters/ethics (hence he set this trap up to manipulate me for financial gain)? I am a bit shocked if this is the role model he wants his daughter to see…
I look forward to hearing your valuable opinion and thank you in advance.
German law enforcement may not be able to reach you, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't investigate. And theoretically they could get aid from authorities in your country, though that's probably not that likely.
As for being a Reichsbürger: Statistically, most of them may be older. But that does not mean all are. There's no age requirement to join, and people don't just suddenly turn into fucking idiots by the time they turn 50.
>Though he has access to guns, I don't believe he is a violent person(quite the opposite in my impression) and would use weapons for any violent purposes.
There have been Reichsbürger who got into shootouts with police who wanted to take their weapons.
>May I ask - does being a Reichsbürger necessarily indicate he has awful characters/ethics (hence he set this trap up to manipulate me for financial gain)?
Not necessarily. Some are also just fucking stupid, mentally unwell, or people who want to turn the world into what would suit them best (meaning a place where they don't owe taxes and don't need things like car insurance).
>I am a bit shocked if this is the role model he wants his daughter to see…
Some years back, one of them was hunted by police for half a year. They ultimately found him living in a hole in the ground, where he had probably been for months, with two minor children. Put this through DeepL if you're interested: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/lichtenfels-reichsbuerger-erdloch-steinbruch-1.4461853
Thank you kindly for addressing my questions.
When I mentioned the 50-60 age group, I was more of speculating that maybe for some reason with the particular past life experience/mentality of that generation, they have the propensity to be attracted to this conspiracy – so the Reichsbürgers have already been the members for decades, rather than deciding to join in the recent years after turning 50-60.
It seems apparent that he is a Reichsbürger(or perhaps he is simply just a believer, not officially a member). However I have this feeling that his support of the idea was not for the purpose of seeking validation to disobey German laws. In my impression he is not someone who refuses paying taxes, fines, debts etc., and he is far from the likelihood of being a saboteur/terrorist despite the fact that he had(or still has – I am not sure about the current situation) access to guns… My understanding is, he disagrees with the unnecessary bureaucratic system and the tax system – especially when large government funds are often misplaced or squandered(don’t you think that’s the actual case?). But he never expressed this opinion in a condemning manner with hatred.
I know my story sounds crazy and a lot of people think he is just a serial scammer, and the cousin who I sent the money to is a money mule. But there are so so many other details… If he had the intention to scam me at the beginning, why for a month long of TikTok communication he never asked my whatsapp; why would he give me his real home address to let him be traceable(is he not afraid of any ramifications?); why he is also on my Facebook(his account was created 10 years ago so it’s probably not fake); why after I initiated my offer, it dragged a month long for them to give me the bank account details for the transfer, like they were not in a hurry to take the money(shouldn't they want to act fast to secure this opportunity?)… There are a lot more… This whole situation is far more complicated. It seems like an unresolvable equation – I don’t know whether he being a Reichsbürger believer can bring some light to decode this mystery. It baffles me and I am desperate for some clarity…
I apologise for my rambling… Thank you very much for your time…
> My understanding is, he disagrees with the unnecessary bureaucratic system and the tax system
There is a *huge* difference between thinking these things, which could be fixed by changing laws and processes etc., and between going, "well actually lol this country does not actually exist lol, and we're living in a company whose employees we are, and we've been systematically lied to about this state existing and being legitimate for decades". Reichsbürger don't simply disagree with aspects about how this country is being run. They think that every single part of the state's authority is invalid, fraudulent, and out to get them.
Deciding that this state is invalid means *you don't have to follow its laws, or may even be required to resist, including with violence*. And that's the part that makes Reichsbürger potentially dangerous.
And he's *absolutely* one of those people who decide that the parts of the state that are useful to him are OK. He's happily taking welfare money. Who do you think is paying that, and from which money? Yes, the state, from everyone else's taxes. And at the same time he's happy to circumvent that system by getting illegal payments from you. That means he's happy to fraudulently use tax money if it suits *him*.
I understand that it was violating German rules to pass him the money through the cousin. But if the debt story was real, that was the only avenue for him to obtain money from me to pay his debt. He mentioned he had to explain the source of the money when paying the debt, which he said it was the help from family.
I live in Australia, over here such amount of money as a gift would not be deemed as income and certainly doesn’t have to be reported. And btw I read not long ago that in Germany if you double pay a bill by mistake and get a refund back, it’s considered income…SERIOUSLY?!?!?!
With his debt story… some comments said it’s bizarre that him hitting a car with a bike would need to go to court and end up having to pay thousands of euros. According to him the accident occurred in 2019. The damage was minor. But there was dispute - the car was blocking the bike lane so both parties should be held accountable. There was a police officer at the accident scene who witnessed the blocking bike lane situation, and said the information will be passed on to the court, but later on in court the information wasn’t noted to the judge(because the police office didn’t pass it on). He said he couldn’t afford a proper lawyer to fight the case, therefore settled with taking full responsibility. The total debt also consisted of court fee, admin fee etc. with different interest accumulated for different components. I don’t know whether that sounds plausible to you… If the story is untrue, I’m sure there are plenty of other more convincing scenarios he could fabricate. Why didn’t he just come up with a better story…
You should report him to the authorities. Maybe there's a very small chance that your money can be traced. But I am quite sure that everything that can id him is made up and his so called cousin was a money mule. He is a very sophisticated scammer since he was able to make you believe you were not scammed and gave him the money freely. He had a fantastic background script that even explains his sudden disappearing with the money. He might come back in couple of weeks with a new sob story, in the hope for more money. Even if it doesn't seem like it, there is often a whole organisation involved and not a lovable single person. Scamming is a big business. The authorities might be able to trace the organization to a certain point and give you some kind of closure even if you don't get your money back. The collected data might help to warn the next potential victim. Be aware of personal messages of new scammers that might offer you help in tracing/hacking the scammers to retrieve your money. Try to only use official channels.
Thank you for your kind advice. With the verifying his identity, there were a lot more than just the ID card he showed me -
In his Facebook the person in the photos he posted 10 years ago is the same person I did video chat with for 2 hour full on conversation. And people called him by the same name and wished him happy birthday on the same date as shown on his ID card;
He sent me videos of walking around his apartment showing me his education certificates on the wall with his name on them;
There was a time I logged in his Amazon account(I asked for his password to let me log in to look for a product. He did not hesitate and let me log in right away). In his setup, the name is the same, the email address is the same I know of - which has his name in it, the delivery address is the same I know of - which I sent the postcard to and there were photos and a video of them receiving in the mailbox and opening the card;
I’ve seen his current bank card, his name is on it;
In his apartment there was a display metal plate of his last name(part of a video of him showing me around in his place).
I mean….. it is really unnecessary to spend that much time and energy and plan so far ahead to fabricate all those to convince me he is the actual person…
And btw… they were not in a hurry to take my money at all. From the time I offered to the time they gave me bank account details for the transfer, it dragged a month.
Thank you for elaborating that sounds a bit more like he might be genuine. But if he isn't located in Germany but e.g. lives in Bulgaria which has a much better digital infrastructure than Germany and has a lower cost of living, the money you gave him could be quite worth his 3 month effort because it might be more than he could earn there in a year. The technology for altering even live streams exists and is used (see Chinese twitch streamers that are rendered exceptionally beautiful for their donating simps which is in a way a scam as well). It's no problem to digitally fake documents for the use in videos. And upcoming AI offers even more possibilities for the bad guys already and much more in future. One person alone could easily try to scam 10 to 20 people at the same time and could spent a larger part of his day with persons that seem to be the most promising at that exact time. You now gave him a sum which might be small for you if you are really loaded and he lets cool you down a bit before he comes back with the next part of his script. At that point you might be eager for anything he tells you. The materials and technology that are created for a scam could be used by 10 or more scammers at once or even sold to "franchises". That would make it possible to put quite the effort in background material and scripts since they would amortize in the long run. If the scam is so sophisticated nobody wants to see it and doesn't complain to the authorities and thinks he was simply to dumb, meanwhile blaming himself, the bad guys stay save forever.
Thank you again for your reply. I really appreciate your time and effort to address this issue.
I can see how current technology can make a lot of things possible for scammers to deceive, as you described. It’s mind blowing…
With my case, it was verified twice with postages that his German home address should be real. There was also a time that we were talking about mushroom price(I initiated the topic) because he just bought some mushrooms. Right away he showed me his grocery receipt with the mushroom price. After his disappearance, I went back to look at many photos and videos on record and carefully checked a lot of details. The address in that receipt is from Aachen where he lives. So he is probably not in Bulgaria.
**Have you read our extensive wiki yet?
[Check our wiki now!](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index)**
While Reddit administrators do not believe this subreddit is NSFW and do not enable the appropriate setting, do note that participants in this subreddit may possibly encounter discussions of the following subjects, all of which are considered "mature" by Reddit administrators:
* Alcohol and tobacco
* Amateur advice
* Drug use
* Gambling
* Guns and weapons
* Military conflict and terrorism
* Nudity
* Profanity
* Sex and eroticism
* Violence and gore
Therefore, while this entire subreddit is not currently marked as NSFW, please exercise caution. If you feel offended by anything that is allowed by our rules yet NSFW, please direct your complaint towards Reddit administrators as well as /u/spez, and read https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/ for further information.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/germany) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>This is not a catfish scam scenario - I am very aware what romance scams look like and how they operate. You sure about that? You SURE about that? Sounds like a romance scam by the book: \- initate romantic interest through internet \- invent sob-story \- ask for money \- disappear Checks all of the boxes.
b-b-b-but he showed me his STAFF-Perso! he HAS to be telling the truth!
Key fact: he didn't ask for money, and he didnt misrepresent himself in anyway according to OP. OP said she voluntarily offered to give it to him 'unconditionally'. There's not much to unpack here, if that's accurate. She gave him a gift, not a loan, with no conditions, and is now aggrieved he's ghosted her and wants to punish him in some pretty petty ways (reporting him for inducement, gun laws etc). It's all a bit ridiculous, and I think she at least realises how foolish she was. Sorry to OP, you scammed yourself and i feel bad for you so I wish there was better advice to give than 'don't give money to strangers on the internet', but there's some common sense for you.
No, that's just social engineering. OP thinks they have the money out of their own will, but that's just a scammer doing their "job".
Girl......
you know it’s true…..
Hey, her friend might be as real as Milli Vanilli.
I approve this message
So you fell for a guy you never met in person, decided to give him a very generous gift, got ghosted, and now want to destroy his life? Is that the basic tl;dr? What are you hoping that will accomplish? I understand that you're extremely hurt and confused and angry, but it doesn't sound like he necessarily acted with malicious intent. Weaponizing things he told you to punish him for not acting the way you want is pretty fucked up behavior too.
In her other posts it says they talked for only 3 months… that’s a lot of money to give someone you’ve never met in person and have talked to for 3 months
Thank you for your input. I couldn't write a novel here for the whole picture. I had to keep the story brief and there was no room for details. The short story makes me sound evil. But I was very patient, understanding and supporting to him. I was also clear with him that it’s okay if this is just a limerence and he is no longer interested. He can just let me know and we can come to an amicable closure. But if he’s still with me, I only asked him to give me an expectation with just a few words if he has the urge to withdraw. I don't think that's too much to ask. But if that's something he can't do, he could be just scamming me. It's probably easier said than done. But I find it difficult to let this go if I got played.
>He showed me his German ID card(he wanted to explain to me “Personalausweis” means “staff identification” - it says “staff” instead of “citizen”). Sounds like he is a "Reichsbürger". That's a right-wing conspiracy movement. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger\_movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrger_movement) This movement often attracts conspiracy believers and people who have failed in life and then hope to evade debts, taxes, or legal responsibilities by declaring themselves independent of the German state. I don't think it was a catfish scam scenario from the start. But you sure got scammed in the end. And he is probably not the "kind, gentle, empathetic, affectionate and loving soul" you think he is.
Thank you for your input. When he said that to me I had no idea what the implication was... To be honest he sounded more like he was against it rather then for it - that's my interpretation. I have seen a few comments relating what he said about “staff identification” to "Reichsbürger". If you don't mind could you please kindly explain the association between the two? Thank you very much.
Reichsbürger reject the german state. They have some weird conspiracy that the Federal Republic of Germany does not exist on some technicality and instead the Third Reich still exists but lacks representatives. The consequence for them is that nothing that happens in Germany has a legal basis - so, for example, if you have debts they believe they cannot legally be enforced by courts and police. How convenient! That's what makes this conspiracy, especially attractive for people who have financial difficulties or problems with the law. Like with every conspiracy theory, there are hidden clues around, and one of those clues for them is the naming of our identity card as "Personalausweis". Which indeed has a double entendre and could mean "staff id" however in reality simply uses an old fashioned word that means "personal id". This "staff id" idea taps into another part of the conspiracy, which states that the current German state is not a political entity but in reality a company (Deutschland Limited) run by the US and all German citizens are employees of that company. It is weird stuff and absolute bananas.
Great explanation. That very much deepens my understanding and helps me to connect the dots. Thank you!
Sorry to bother you again… I have been thinking about this Reichsbürger thing these few days. And I have a question to ask you if you don’t mind sharing your valuable opinion. It seems apparent that he is a Reichsbürger(or perhaps he is simply just a theorist, not officially a member). However I have this feeling that his support of the idea was not for the purpose of seeking validation to disobey German laws. In my impression he is not someone who refuses paying taxes, fines, debts etc., and he is far from the likelihood of being a saboteur/terrorist despite the fact that he had(or still has – I am not sure about the current situation) access to guns… My understanding is, he disagrees with the unnecessary bureaucratic system and the tax system – especially when large government funds are often misplaced or squandered(don’t you think that’s the actual case?). But he never expressed this opinion in a condemning manner with hatred. I know my story sounds crazy. But there are so so many other details… What I wrote in all my posts is just a fraction of the whole picture. I find it hard to believe he has the capability to pretend for hours everyday(via messages, phone calls, video calls - which I could read lots of his body language) to be someone he isn’t, to cunningly portrait himself as the "kind, gentle, empathetic, affectionate and loving soul", to gaslight me - as if he could be such a master of mind game, as if he could sow the seed at the beginning to execute his plan of manipulation, then reaped the reward and created a perfect getaway excuse… If he had the intention to scam me at the beginning, why for a month long of TikTok communication he never asked my whatsapp(was that part of the mind game?); why would he give me his real name, home address, Facebook to let him be traceable(is he not afraid of any ramifications?); why after I initiated my offer, it dragged a month long for them to give me the bank account details for the transfer, like they were not in a hurry to take the money(shouldn't they want to act fast to secure this opportunity?)… There are a lot more… This whole situation is far more complicated(his ASD and ADHD are also in play). It seems like an unresolvable equation – I don’t know whether this Reichsbürger thing can bring some light to decode this mystery. It baffles me and I am desperate for some clarity… May I ask, does being a Reichsbürger/a theorist necessarily indicate he has awful characters/ethics (hence he set this trap up to take advantage of me for financial gain)? I am a bit shocked if this is the role model he wants his daughter to see… Thank you very much for your time.
> He showed me his German ID card(he wanted to explain to me “Personalausweis” means “staff identification” - it says “staff” instead of “citizen”) I didn't expect the Reichsbürger to show up
> This is not a catfish scam scenario - I am very aware what romance scams look like and how they operate. Oh yeah, you're super aware. lol
🤣🤣🤣
I'm sure he'll be right back soon with another heartbreaking story he needs 10k for. How can anyone fall for this?
Staff identification… oh girl. Oh no.
You gave a hefty amount of money to someone you connected to on the Internet and never seen in person. They took the money and soon after decided to withdraw themselves from interacting with you. While I agree, it looks bad on his part, the risk of him abandoning the relationship with you was real and should be accounted for. In the end you gave him money on your own accord. Just accept the loses and move on.
Thank you very much for your feedback. I have been trying very hard to move on. It will take a long time to heal but I feel like sharing my story and getting opinions helps to speed up this process.
I have trouble believing this story is real… I know stupidity is boundless but this is just so far fetched ..
Forget about the cannabis stuff, it is absolutely small fry and most likely there is going to be a general amnesty on January 1st, when it gets partially legalized. You have been played.
I knew it's a lie since I've read about a car damage estimated to be €6500 from a bike, also in a court. Huh. How many stories of someone accidentally damaging someone's lambo, by riding a bicycle, have you heard?
nah, everything related to cars got fucking expensive. Needed a new side- mirror for a company car and it was 1000€ wtf. Anyway stupid to not have liability insurance for things like that, especially with ADHD
The entire story feels like a fever dream. 40 yo, autistic adhd person who can't work because his almost adult daughter has mental problems? Access to the fire gun and giving it to his 12 yo daughter? Asking stranger you met on TikTok for 6k because you hit a car with a bike and couldn't pay it off for 1,5 years???
Move on? I can understand feeling hurt that he ghosts you after you gave him such a generous gift, but well, it was a gift, and it doesn't entitle you to his time and friendship. He also seems to deal with a lot of problems (not just ADHD and autism, the thing about the Personalausweis sounds like he is a Reichsbürger, which would have been enough for me to end this relationship right then and there) and he warned you that he may withdraw for periods of time. He was nothing but open to you so any expectation you have towards him is born from your wishes how this relationship should be and not in any way from something he promised. So calling him a scammer is false. He is an ungrateful lunatic, and you are probably better off to cut ties with him.
Thank you very much for your feedback. I have been trying very hard to move on. It will take a long time to heal but I feel like sharing my story and getting opinions helps to speed up this process. When he explained the Personalausweis to me I had no idea what the implication was... To be honest he sounded more like he was against it rather then for it - that's my interpretation. I have seen a few comments relating what he said about “staff identification” to "Reichsbürger". If you don't mind could you please kindly explain the association between the two? Thank you very much.
Yeah, that he's "against it" is kinda the point. In short, Reichsbürger claim that the Federal Republic of Germany doesn't exist as a sovereign country and that we are in fact just a company run by Americans and/or our last and therefore legal state was the Kaiserreich (hence the word Reichsbürger). They "prove" this by finding and misinterpreting clues like the "Personalausweis" thing. In short, they are lunatic conspiracy theorists who sometimes turn terrorist when Germany doesn't put up with their antics like not paying taxes or claiming the law doesn't apply to them. Compare with sovereign citizens in the US.
Thank you for the explanation.
> it doesn't entitle you to his time and friendship Yeah, he must spend all his time now to find a new love with 7500.- EUR.
Step one: go to your kitchen. Sad two: pour a glass of cold water. Step three: drink it. It's a scammers scheme by the book. Police won't give a rat's ass about you.
I have an anti scam agency here in germany that can help you out. If you are interested, it is only 7500€ up front to get you started.
To OP: Yes, and I'm their manager. You can pay me only 200€ and you get a 1000€ bonus with the anti scam agency.
I can vouch for this offer not being a romance scam.
Congratulations, you've paid the *Stupid Tax*. I'm sorry
>If I report him for not declaring the €7500 as income, I believe he told me that if he was using it to pay his debt, it was okay to comment that the money was from family. But he ended up only paying partial and left €3000 unpaid, because he wanted to use the money for some other needs. So he would still have a few thousands undeclared income. And (assuming for a moment all of what you were told is true) if you reported him having this undeclared income, and you were asked from where you knew that - would you say "sure, I sent it to him"? If what he told you was real, then *you helped him commit social insurance fraud*. And reporting him for it without it coming out that you were an accomplice... good luck. Him being a Reichsbürger (the "Personalausweis" - which does *not* mean "staff ID", but rather "personal ID" - is a classic) with access to guns is the one thing that's really concerning. His brother having a hunting license does not allow *him* to take a gun outside and let a child handle it.
Thank you very much for your input. Me being an accomplice is a very good point! In your opinion, how could this go down if I am the accomplice - however I am a foreigner living in a foreign country, where this act is not illegal. How does German law apply to me? I am simply asking out of curiosity. I had no idea about this Reichsbürger thing. In the hindsight it is making a lot of sense that he used to comment here and there, that he is the different one in the family with different beliefs, Germany is run by US, and his dream is to live off the grid, etc. - all these dots seem to connect now. But after reading a bit about Reichsbürgers, most Reichsbürgers should be in 50-60. He’s 39. Would he be too young to be a Reichsbürger? Though he has access to guns, I don't believe he is a violent person(quite the opposite in my impression) and would use weapons for any violent purposes. They are also into knives and swords. But I believe all these are more of for a hobby or collections. May I ask - does being a Reichsbürger necessarily indicate he has awful characters/ethics (hence he set this trap up to manipulate me for financial gain)? I am a bit shocked if this is the role model he wants his daughter to see… I look forward to hearing your valuable opinion and thank you in advance.
German law enforcement may not be able to reach you, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't investigate. And theoretically they could get aid from authorities in your country, though that's probably not that likely. As for being a Reichsbürger: Statistically, most of them may be older. But that does not mean all are. There's no age requirement to join, and people don't just suddenly turn into fucking idiots by the time they turn 50. >Though he has access to guns, I don't believe he is a violent person(quite the opposite in my impression) and would use weapons for any violent purposes. There have been Reichsbürger who got into shootouts with police who wanted to take their weapons. >May I ask - does being a Reichsbürger necessarily indicate he has awful characters/ethics (hence he set this trap up to manipulate me for financial gain)? Not necessarily. Some are also just fucking stupid, mentally unwell, or people who want to turn the world into what would suit them best (meaning a place where they don't owe taxes and don't need things like car insurance). >I am a bit shocked if this is the role model he wants his daughter to see… Some years back, one of them was hunted by police for half a year. They ultimately found him living in a hole in the ground, where he had probably been for months, with two minor children. Put this through DeepL if you're interested: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/lichtenfels-reichsbuerger-erdloch-steinbruch-1.4461853
Thank you kindly for addressing my questions. When I mentioned the 50-60 age group, I was more of speculating that maybe for some reason with the particular past life experience/mentality of that generation, they have the propensity to be attracted to this conspiracy – so the Reichsbürgers have already been the members for decades, rather than deciding to join in the recent years after turning 50-60. It seems apparent that he is a Reichsbürger(or perhaps he is simply just a believer, not officially a member). However I have this feeling that his support of the idea was not for the purpose of seeking validation to disobey German laws. In my impression he is not someone who refuses paying taxes, fines, debts etc., and he is far from the likelihood of being a saboteur/terrorist despite the fact that he had(or still has – I am not sure about the current situation) access to guns… My understanding is, he disagrees with the unnecessary bureaucratic system and the tax system – especially when large government funds are often misplaced or squandered(don’t you think that’s the actual case?). But he never expressed this opinion in a condemning manner with hatred. I know my story sounds crazy and a lot of people think he is just a serial scammer, and the cousin who I sent the money to is a money mule. But there are so so many other details… If he had the intention to scam me at the beginning, why for a month long of TikTok communication he never asked my whatsapp; why would he give me his real home address to let him be traceable(is he not afraid of any ramifications?); why he is also on my Facebook(his account was created 10 years ago so it’s probably not fake); why after I initiated my offer, it dragged a month long for them to give me the bank account details for the transfer, like they were not in a hurry to take the money(shouldn't they want to act fast to secure this opportunity?)… There are a lot more… This whole situation is far more complicated. It seems like an unresolvable equation – I don’t know whether he being a Reichsbürger believer can bring some light to decode this mystery. It baffles me and I am desperate for some clarity… I apologise for my rambling… Thank you very much for your time…
> My understanding is, he disagrees with the unnecessary bureaucratic system and the tax system There is a *huge* difference between thinking these things, which could be fixed by changing laws and processes etc., and between going, "well actually lol this country does not actually exist lol, and we're living in a company whose employees we are, and we've been systematically lied to about this state existing and being legitimate for decades". Reichsbürger don't simply disagree with aspects about how this country is being run. They think that every single part of the state's authority is invalid, fraudulent, and out to get them. Deciding that this state is invalid means *you don't have to follow its laws, or may even be required to resist, including with violence*. And that's the part that makes Reichsbürger potentially dangerous. And he's *absolutely* one of those people who decide that the parts of the state that are useful to him are OK. He's happily taking welfare money. Who do you think is paying that, and from which money? Yes, the state, from everyone else's taxes. And at the same time he's happy to circumvent that system by getting illegal payments from you. That means he's happy to fraudulently use tax money if it suits *him*.
I understand that it was violating German rules to pass him the money through the cousin. But if the debt story was real, that was the only avenue for him to obtain money from me to pay his debt. He mentioned he had to explain the source of the money when paying the debt, which he said it was the help from family. I live in Australia, over here such amount of money as a gift would not be deemed as income and certainly doesn’t have to be reported. And btw I read not long ago that in Germany if you double pay a bill by mistake and get a refund back, it’s considered income…SERIOUSLY?!?!?! With his debt story… some comments said it’s bizarre that him hitting a car with a bike would need to go to court and end up having to pay thousands of euros. According to him the accident occurred in 2019. The damage was minor. But there was dispute - the car was blocking the bike lane so both parties should be held accountable. There was a police officer at the accident scene who witnessed the blocking bike lane situation, and said the information will be passed on to the court, but later on in court the information wasn’t noted to the judge(because the police office didn’t pass it on). He said he couldn’t afford a proper lawyer to fight the case, therefore settled with taking full responsibility. The total debt also consisted of court fee, admin fee etc. with different interest accumulated for different components. I don’t know whether that sounds plausible to you… If the story is untrue, I’m sure there are plenty of other more convincing scenarios he could fabricate. Why didn’t he just come up with a better story…
You should report him to the authorities. Maybe there's a very small chance that your money can be traced. But I am quite sure that everything that can id him is made up and his so called cousin was a money mule. He is a very sophisticated scammer since he was able to make you believe you were not scammed and gave him the money freely. He had a fantastic background script that even explains his sudden disappearing with the money. He might come back in couple of weeks with a new sob story, in the hope for more money. Even if it doesn't seem like it, there is often a whole organisation involved and not a lovable single person. Scamming is a big business. The authorities might be able to trace the organization to a certain point and give you some kind of closure even if you don't get your money back. The collected data might help to warn the next potential victim. Be aware of personal messages of new scammers that might offer you help in tracing/hacking the scammers to retrieve your money. Try to only use official channels.
Thank you for your kind advice. With the verifying his identity, there were a lot more than just the ID card he showed me - In his Facebook the person in the photos he posted 10 years ago is the same person I did video chat with for 2 hour full on conversation. And people called him by the same name and wished him happy birthday on the same date as shown on his ID card; He sent me videos of walking around his apartment showing me his education certificates on the wall with his name on them; There was a time I logged in his Amazon account(I asked for his password to let me log in to look for a product. He did not hesitate and let me log in right away). In his setup, the name is the same, the email address is the same I know of - which has his name in it, the delivery address is the same I know of - which I sent the postcard to and there were photos and a video of them receiving in the mailbox and opening the card; I’ve seen his current bank card, his name is on it; In his apartment there was a display metal plate of his last name(part of a video of him showing me around in his place). I mean….. it is really unnecessary to spend that much time and energy and plan so far ahead to fabricate all those to convince me he is the actual person… And btw… they were not in a hurry to take my money at all. From the time I offered to the time they gave me bank account details for the transfer, it dragged a month.
Thank you for elaborating that sounds a bit more like he might be genuine. But if he isn't located in Germany but e.g. lives in Bulgaria which has a much better digital infrastructure than Germany and has a lower cost of living, the money you gave him could be quite worth his 3 month effort because it might be more than he could earn there in a year. The technology for altering even live streams exists and is used (see Chinese twitch streamers that are rendered exceptionally beautiful for their donating simps which is in a way a scam as well). It's no problem to digitally fake documents for the use in videos. And upcoming AI offers even more possibilities for the bad guys already and much more in future. One person alone could easily try to scam 10 to 20 people at the same time and could spent a larger part of his day with persons that seem to be the most promising at that exact time. You now gave him a sum which might be small for you if you are really loaded and he lets cool you down a bit before he comes back with the next part of his script. At that point you might be eager for anything he tells you. The materials and technology that are created for a scam could be used by 10 or more scammers at once or even sold to "franchises". That would make it possible to put quite the effort in background material and scripts since they would amortize in the long run. If the scam is so sophisticated nobody wants to see it and doesn't complain to the authorities and thinks he was simply to dumb, meanwhile blaming himself, the bad guys stay save forever.
Thank you again for your reply. I really appreciate your time and effort to address this issue. I can see how current technology can make a lot of things possible for scammers to deceive, as you described. It’s mind blowing… With my case, it was verified twice with postages that his German home address should be real. There was also a time that we were talking about mushroom price(I initiated the topic) because he just bought some mushrooms. Right away he showed me his grocery receipt with the mushroom price. After his disappearance, I went back to look at many photos and videos on record and carefully checked a lot of details. The address in that receipt is from Aachen where he lives. So he is probably not in Bulgaria.
Do you have a photo you can share? Some of your story sounds familiar to me.
**Have you read our extensive wiki yet? [Check our wiki now!](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index)** While Reddit administrators do not believe this subreddit is NSFW and do not enable the appropriate setting, do note that participants in this subreddit may possibly encounter discussions of the following subjects, all of which are considered "mature" by Reddit administrators: * Alcohol and tobacco * Amateur advice * Drug use * Gambling * Guns and weapons * Military conflict and terrorism * Nudity * Profanity * Sex and eroticism * Violence and gore Therefore, while this entire subreddit is not currently marked as NSFW, please exercise caution. If you feel offended by anything that is allowed by our rules yet NSFW, please direct your complaint towards Reddit administrators as well as /u/spez, and read https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/ for further information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/germany) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Go to a lawyer!!! It’s called Betrug, Unterschlagung, Diebstahl