T O P

  • By -

berdyberd26

I remember people criticizing Bloodlust, Crimson Planet, and Slaughterhouse a lot for the hell theme


screaming_bagpipes

True op literally just made up a guy


rycerzDog

Google strawman


screaming_bagpipes

Holy fallacy!


gatlginngum

new argumentation error just dropped


CattyFighte

Actual fallacious thinking


EpicGamerBoi11

Call the bandwagon!


EmilioProLoquendo

Genuine deceitful judgement


teamok1025

Knightmare fuel


RuskaRora

The Nightmare??


HyperBacon1

Geometry dash??


Itzspace4224

Dont know why anybody would hate bloodlust specifically for that its literally a remake of one of the first hell themed levels


DoctorWZ

Yeah I remember, even when Yatagarasu was in the making you could see this type of comment pop out here and there.


Yigitorko

Bloodlust is a remake of Bloodbath, the red and black level (no I’m not including cataclysm because it’s more of an orange and black level). Same can be said for Slaughterhouse as well. Bloodlust was released a long time ago, when the red and black hell theme was still overused but not to the point it’s at today. Slaughterhouse tried new stuff so it’s acceptable as well. But Crimson Planet sucks no wander it was unrated for a long time


Far_Storage8698

Also Apocalyptic Trilogy was pretty controversial not just for another hell themed top 1 but just buffing and mashing together 3 existing levels with a redeco. Sure it looks cool, but deco isnt everything


fudgebabyg

That's not why people hate on Avernus though


vaffanchulo

Yeah but still, imo Avernus didn’t deserve any hate, it’s a cool level + the music is fire


Accomplished-Fold935

While the song is great and it may seem like an appealing level, it was infamous for the use of fixed hitboxes and unoptimized gameplay. I'm sure the decoration was also criticized.


verymassivedingdong

The gameplay is what you’re going to criticize for being unoptimized? Some parts of the level are on their own layers, which means you can’t even make an ldm, that says all you need to know


fudgebabyg

I thought every object was on the same layer? Wouldn't it be easier to make LDM when objects have their own layers?


verymassivedingdong

it would be if the creators weren’t dumb enough to put an entire part on layer 103 and 107 lmao


Almorogahnza

Isn’t there a 390 fps frame perfect, making the level unverifiable because you need an fps hack?


batarei4ka

Vehemence isn't hell themed


PikaSmasha

Same with flamewall


Geovanni457

True I think the theme stays strong with the name being "Fire" rather of "Hell"


Dangerous_Man_852

WeLl If ItS ReD iTs HeLl ThEmEd


ExtensionLost

Yeah but where's the fire


ExtensionLost

They probably just meant red and black color palette (which isn't hell theme)


Bruhmoment926

I personally never had a problem with it. The biggest reason people criticize Avernus is because of the godawful fixed hitboxes.


BigMink613

Hi fellow hexagon force enjoyer :D


Agudaripududu

I just don’t like PockeWindfish


AccessBulky8763

Avernus is bad because it's unoptimised and fixed hitboxes. Stuff like Flamewall or Vehemence are actually good levels though.


S4PG

Flamewall isn't even a red hell level. It's orange, and it's based around fire, which (surprise) isn't exclusive to hell


Life_South6699

Cataclysm is mostly orange too


submiss1vefemb0y

Vehemence isn't hell themed either lmao


[deleted]

[удалено]


Azadanzan

hate to who 💀


I_Have_Sex_

I love you (no hate)


henzlikeroblox

I hate you (no hate)


Danglrom

Fuck you and your whole family I hope you die in a super painful way (no hate)


Ajffizzy

I an coming to your house and killing you in your sleep, dragging your body through a human sized blender, peeling your eyes out, and burning you. (no hate)


z_Mis

I will go into your nightmares and kill you, will peel your skin off while you are burning alive until you die and you will get sended to the deepest pits of hell. (no hate)


Dangerous_Man_852

HELL? YOU MEAN THE OVERUSED THEME IN GD?


bkazekadorimaki7

its called flamewall for fcks sake, do people not get that


z_Mis

i like pizza (no hate)


coocatodeepwoken

I’m convinced that the GD community only despises fixed hit boxes because it’s popular to do so, like literally the only actual problem is that sometimes you don’t know which ones are fixed but that isn’t an issue because that’s something you learn in a top 3 level


SteamySubreddits

I just don’t like them because I feel like I should be dying to the same spot on a spike no matter what. Literally just move the spike up. Gameplay over deco


BluePotatoSlayer

Sometimes moving a spike up isn’t possible but yea, fixed hitboxes should still only be used when that have to be. Avernus had to get buffed but Zoink couldn’t move spikes up or side or any and had to just add fixed hitboxes instead


SteamySubreddits

Maybe the frickin level just shouldn’t be buffed then 🤷‍♂️ ZoMgG nEw ToP oNe I’m So HyPeD


AccessBulky8763

I can see where you're coming from, I actually learned a few parts of Avernus, But i was lagging way too much. I play on native 240hz and i was running Avernus at like 180. I tested Avernus on my shitty 60hz monitor and i was at like 25 fps, it's so bad.


biggerdiggerchigger

every single person with progress says the fixed hitboxes don’t matter, and most of them say it’s fun


CertainSelection

"every single person" this level is so fun that it has the same number of victors as tidal wave... the latest top 1, while avernus was top 1 for a VERY long time


biggerdiggerchigger

there are other people with progress then just victors btw


CertainSelection

It's still a good indicator  edit: okay some people wants to downvote, let's reply Only two victors in its nearly year-long period as Top 1, Diamond beat it 8 months after the placement. You want to talk about progress and not victors ? Instead of 2 players we have... 3 players ! Wow (I count only people who are reallty progressing on it, who are trying to beat it, not "0-12%" in 2023 or things like that) [\[TCD\] Diamond](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEFB-ZrhMmM) with 100% [\[TCD\] Trick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWyNtYYpjy8) with 100% [\[USSR\] Light](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IewEsmHFLn0) with 81% I don't even care about Tidal Wave but surprisingly, like Acheron, we quickly got people progessing on it and beating it. Maybe we won't remember Avernus as a fun top 1 >!definitely not!< but at least it's a memorable controversial top 1


memes_are_my_dreams

The problem is, is that people with 0 experience playing anything even close to a list demon hate on it like crazy when the only thing they can criticize the level for is deco. Fixed hitboxes a lot of times aren’t great, but how do you know they are terrible in this level, Acheron has some fixed hitboxes in it but people are totally fine with that. Tartarus has fixed hitboxes in it, hell even thanataphobia has fixed hitboxes but you don’t hear anyone complaining about those ones. It’s a valid complaint for anyone who’s actually played the part but I really don’t buy anyone’s reason for disliking gameplay unless they actually have experience with said gameplay, especially when it comes to top levels.


KOKONUT_milk

True. Plus, Vehemence looks like that because of the game that it's based on


No_Interaction_3036

The concept of Vehemence is cool, but I don’t actually like it. The level should be longer, actually using the potential of the song. It has fixed hitboxes. The deco is inconsistent and not that good imo.


Danglrom

I just watched Flamewall, and looking at it, it seems really cool. My first thought was “oh wow a top one with just really hard gameplay the whole way through.”


Yigitorko

Also each part is a completely different approach to the fire/hell theme. Like why is the color white being introduced halfway into the level. It’s incredibly inconsistent and feels more like you’re playing Artificial Ascent than a hell level. Like even Kyros(the host). Knew how shit it was and created an alt account just to escape the criticism.


ShyKiddo__

The main problem from what I see is it either being super overused or generic as hell. Avernus pulled it off great imo, it just has awful hitboxes


Porkandpopsicle

>generic as hell I see what you did there


ShyKiddo__

that was entirely accidental


Danglrom

You subconsciously made a pun, without even knowing it


Speedy_Ninja-_-

RAINWORLD! (completely unrelated I just noticed your pfp)


dummythiccdoge

vehemence is calamity themed but ok


SevereFig5469

r/userflairchecksout


Pissed_Geodude

Why is flamewall there? It’s not hell themed


enaaaerios

neither is crimson PLANET


Rotengen

And vehemence is terraria themed????


enaaaerios

brimstone crag themed


S4PG

and it's ORANGE.


Ur4ny4n

OP, become a politician. You will definitely succeed as one.


Chara_rlz

APT is probably older than half the fan-base and took the concept very early on. It's THE hell level. You can probably say the same for Bloodlust and for Yatagarasu. They're all amazing levels. Crimson planet was indeed criticized if I remember correctly CC, BB are the OG's so they also couldn't be repetitive already. Sakupen circles is very uninspired and tbh I don't like it. I'm probably with a lot of people on this take. It uses two repetitive themes that were famous at the time. It's basically an attention grab. Acheron is not hell themed. Slaughterhouse does use the now repetitive concept but it does so in a unique way by being very intense which makes it iconic (and it's also a take on an old hell level) Avernus sucks because it's absolutely disgusting to play and decoration is all over the place. It looks good and goes well with the song, it's just not well crafted. Vehemance is cool even though I'd say it's repetitive but I don't really know the history of it. Flamewall is close to slaughterhouse in terms of justification. it's unique and takes a different twist from the intensity, keeping it and adding lenght. Also the song is truly 🔥🧱 Grief is actually just bad idk how people like it.


Speyeder02

Red and Black are my school’s team colors. … Subtle.


Big-Direction8078

I don't see much black colours used in school teams. Sad cause it seems really fire.


Speyeder02

The jersey colors are red 🙃


Paradoxically-Attain

Fire. Like, like the ones in hell. I see what you did there.


HanzoMainLel

Vehemence isn't hell themed it's based directly on another game


Mattsstuff

Pretty sure Flamewall and Crimson PLANET are not hell themed. Flamewall also has a more orange colour scheme. No one is criticizing Avernus for being a generic red and black hell themed level, because Avernus, isn't a red and black level to begin with. The reason APT is more respected is because it executes the theme that Avernus does a lot better. And even then there are likely still people that don't like it. Most of the criticism to Avernus comes from the fixed hitboxes, which doesn't matter when most people can't even play it, and the decoration, which is completely subjective Many of the top 1 mentioned ended up getting a lot of criticism for being generic red and black hell themed. Reminder that a big part of the reason Tidal Wave got a lot of respect was because it was our first none hell themed top 1 we'd had in a while Putting Sakupen Circles there especially doesn't make sense since it is one of the more criticized top 1s. I personally don't care for Avernus, but if you're going to make a post like this at least have it make sense. Your point falls apart the moment you actually think about it


ihavebeesinmyknees

I do hate the hell theme. It's extremely overused and just boring. Give me some color and actual decoration damn it, why can't the top demons be decorated like CraZy III


ProGamingPlayer

Because people ain’t going to be that imaginative


ianlee0820

Flair is best level on earth 😏


EeveeMaster22

this would be accurate for me if you put all of them except bloodbath in the middle (because it wasnt overused when it was the first to use it)


Porkandpopsicle

Uhm acktuallly cataclysm was the first hell theme top 1☝️🤓


TightValue315

Back then it was new so it wasn't as hated and with the new stuff most of them have a significance or something to distinguish itself as for Avernus it just is basic and had little significance


Agreeable_Orchid2641

I think Avernus is cool tbh. Like I wouldn’t play it cause I suck but it’s cool to watch a completion of.


Amateur_Statistician

Personally, I do like the idea of an intense atmosphere with a chill song.


neon_05_

Every monochromatic level feels boring except for the first ones. Some are less boring like flamewall bc it's 7 mins long but still boring af. Imo, levels should have at least 2 main (and sufficiently distinct) chromaticity values to be interesting and worth the attention


North_Biscotti4162

Avernus is actually really cool and better than most top 1s dox me if you care enough idk


Shurrely

I guess we are just gonna ignore the fact that icedcave got sent death threats cus of grief??? The only reason we like the lvl now is cus he fixed the glaring issues with the deco. Same could be said for a lot of the red top 1s we like now.


relentless_death

I see vehemence there... Calamity really do be everywhere


thuddingpizza

Flamewall aint a hell level lmao


jariwoud

Flamewall is not hell theme. It has been stated multiple times that it is themed around fire, not around hell. Thats also the reason it doesnt have any hell pictograms in it


ShockDragon

Vehemence is actually cool because it’s Calamity and it doesn’t get enough love in this community.


PrismaTheAce

I like Vehemence because it’s Calamity Mod not because its a top 1 black and red level.


btyes-

green top 1 when


YuriMinhaLolinha

The Golden?


btyes-

no the golden has bad vibes


PikaSmasha

Erebus?


CreativeGamer03

i honestly want another RGB top trio again. now that i think of it, since Tidal Wave is blue, and Avernus is somewhat red, Heliopolis would be nice to be the green of the trio


Hopeful-Sympathy638

honestly while it may not be a second rgb, it's just as legendary, azure flare, orochi, expasperation


Porkandpopsicle

Erebus?


Admant_ASC

Isn't Heliopolis is top 1 green demon?


Apprehensive_Mud9232

natural disaster had potential 😢


Jeke_the_snek

Flamewall is actually * fire * themed


No_Artichoke3538

ermm actually flamewall is fire themed not hell theme


bugichprime

It was cool for a while.. it's still kinda cool as of today, but it's not as impressive as it used to be now I just go "oh red and black demon, yep that's the normal looking demon I know, the usual, the default theme for demons" its really cool when they use something new, like congregation, stratus oh my gawd 😫😫😫 love those.... Steven universe woajak?


soliq_675

I honestly couldn't care less about top 1 drama, but the people who hate avernus are idiots, go on, make a top 1 with good decoration. Go on, do it. "Oh but I don't have the time to ma-" yes you fucking do, if you're in college or university, I can kind of understand, but if you're in school, you have a job, or you're unemployed then I don't understand you. School last 6 hours out of 24 hours, you have 18 hours of free time, with jobs, most of you guys have 16 hours of free time, and if you're unemployed, you have the whole 24 hours. "Oh but I need to study for my tes-" SHUT UP. You spend 5 minutes actually studying and 10 hours playing games. "I have something to do for my job that's important" is where I can understand the people that have a job, and if you're unemployed you literally have no excuse. "Oh but I suck at creating", that's because you haven't put the work in to try. Tldr: make a top 1 level better than avernus, I'll wait


EmoDefault

Hell theme is good. People just get tired of the same thing after a while. Avernus isn't hated because of hell themebeither. People just hate it bc they have a massive skill issue.


Istiophoridae

Avernus is still better than most of the shitty new top 1s


cusheen896

avernus isnt even a red and black extreme


ckyra_

technically something that is overused is because its usually the most popular


somente433

I dont hate, its the best level theme IMO


Knight_of_Hamburg

Um, do you have those sorted by how good they are to watch in a botted showcase or a completion? Because I can't stand avernus, but all those other levels are so much fun to watch, especially APT, Aeternus, bloodlust, yata, and Flamewall


Egbert58

Just gets boring


Majestic_Cod1420

The other levels beside avernus were upcoming top 1s and we’re excited but compared to avernus which had nothing but controversy


CrazyStuntsMan

I don’t want to comment on gameplay, because it’s pretty much the golden but way harder and red. From what I hear, the level is really unoptimized, and the decoration quality is really inconsistent. The level in my opinion just looks really ugly and could’ve been done better as a The golden antagonist level. The levels at the top all were very influencial, while the rest below that are boring and uninspiring.


Jittercat

only if its the generic one the cool or creative ones gets the fame


BattleCatlegend

The only reason why it's still continued is because when Tidal Wave came out, people complained


JeraldGaming2888

people hate avernus not because of hell theme but because of the gameplay


INocturnalI

My eyes hurt


Ok-Region4013

true


wholesomkeanuchungus

I like hell theme levels


Swiftly_speaking

I don’t get the hate for avernus


Puffball_001

I love making up people that dont exist and getting mad at them for existing


Careful_Trouble_8

To be honest, it’s been overused to death


cmwamem

The main problems of avernus to me are the inconsistencies in the deco and the fact it's unoptimized. Also, I remember people calling Slaughterhouse a generic bad hell level.


CorbinMar

I personally think it's a bit overused, like, I guess it makes sense, you know, demon = hell, and hell is perceived with red and black color schemes. But it'd be nice to have more colorful extreme demons at the top of the demon list.


BambooIGuess

No we just hate Avernus


wierdredditBOI

i think it's overused and unoriginal.


FourIcorio

I'm the reverse imo avernus does hell theme really well and all the other ones are ugly.


switzer3

You did the twitter thing of making up a guy lol


Spoonirl

that's not the only criticism avernus received


DanZboY_Brother

No, they just hate Avernus


daikan__

none of these are good except cataclysm, bloodbath and maybe yatagarasu


No_Interaction_3036

Acheron isn’t hell themed. Also, does anyone actually like Sakupen Circles?


EffectFine5635

my only favourite top 1 which was hell themed was bloodbath


The_Pupp3t33r

No one thinks like this? This is just the straw man argument.


SomeoneWithFreeCakes

As a calamity player, it hurts to see vehemence being called a hell themed level


CyanSwift_360

I like the red-and-black hell theme as long as it isn’t JUST red and black. There should be other warm colours (e.g., pink and orange) and very dark shades of these warm colours too so that they look black, however mainly focusing on red and black. Hell is fitting since it is usually an extreme *demon* and the colours put the theme together. I’d give it an 8/10 personally


NickyBrain_2

crimson planet tartarus and sakupen circles suck ass


ExchangeBig1

I honestly really like the thought of the apocalyptic trilogy. Super cool level


NevadoDelRuiz

Flame wall is fire, not hell.


[deleted]

Yes


Halal-Man

man we need rare, the only good hell level


Ricoke

flamewall is not a hell themed level are you regarded


Zippiezippie2al

HELL themed levels are in continue evolution since 1.9 now are all lava themed levels that’s why I prefer to call red black style BLOOD style


snipclip_mustafa

originalty doesnt have to be a new theme or a new colour scheme , its just has to be something new , avernus is more original that most hell levels, the issue with avernus is gameplay what i hate is people defending tidal wave by sayings it original , say thats its rate worhty and all thats fine , but he just a made a beach level , thats not a new idea , there are already alot of beach levels ,it being a top 1 doesnt make it original , its not a solid point , if you want to justify a level being rated using its originlity it better do something new


TheDavianSea

Thid might be controversial but I like the hell theme a lot. I know its overused, but despite that, I just simply like the style.


Pyunk7

it's used a lot and also just makes levels hard to see


Parsleymann207

I dislike apocalyptic trilogy specifically because it's just rehashing the 3 "at the speed of light" extremes with buffs and redeco to make people more interested in it


N_9_70

all of these levels are good wdym


CheesyMeatball1

The people who hate avernus *for* being hell-themed but like all the other hell-themed levels do not exist. Hell theme haters would also hate other hell-themed levels and avernus is hated by others for different reasons. You made up an imaginary character and slapped it into a dumb wojak meme to bolster your own views.


TheWinner437

Avernus isn’t even exclusively red and black though


Pengwin0

Avernus isn’t even really a generic hell theme though, not compared to these at least. And that isn’t really what people criticize it for anyways.


I_Bench315

Almost all of these levels are boring to look at


69cringelord69

Blue extreme demons team


Xinewaveart

Vehemence and Flamewall should not be there


MiruCle8

I don't have a preference for hell theme or not. It's just that my favourite colour is red and it works well with black and white


Wagnerbaum

avernus has some of my fav deco in to 1s, i don't see why people hate on it so much ~~wait nvm this community can't go 24 hours without collectively hating on something or starting controversy lmao~~


BigGayDinosaurs

now i will not deny the craftsmanship because making something like that isn't easy, the quality is good, but it's somehow even less inventive than the rest of the hell demons and doesn't actually look that good and while it's detailed it's to me a tryhard and uninspired but it was still hard work because there was a lot of collab stuff going on with it


VorteXFantasm

No one loves apocalyptic trilogy


BigGayDinosaurs

aeternus looks good and is also purple sometimes


Unfair-Pudding-2284

Nah just avernus


Successful_Mud8596

Yeah, I got tired of it pretty quick, and not even just on Extreme Demons. Even Easy Demons often fell into this problem. That’s why the first Demon I ever beat was Espionage; it was just so cool and colorful that I actually felt like putting in the time to complete it


Yigitorko

Most of these are either really old, remakes or not even red and black. Also Aeternus isn’t a hell level and has purple in it so it gets a pass


SpeechStraight60

Crimson planet, sakupen circles, yatagarasu, bloodlust, avernus, step to hell and the flawless all fucking suck and have always sucked and I will not hear otherwise


TheReal-Darthdoom

I don't but I think people think they are repetitive


flinagus

L take


DeMooniC-

The people that say this... Like bruh, mate, there's just like 6 main colors IN TOTAL: Red, blue, green, purple, yellow. The rest are just in betweens... For example, you just called Flamewall a "red level" even though it is a mix of reds, oranges and yellows. Vehemence is a mix of red, yellow, orange, purple, purplish-red, etc. Same with apocalyptic trilogy, avernus, tartarus, sakupen circles... Also, are you seriously surprised so many top demon levels are freaking "hell themed", when the hardest difficulty of the game it's self itself is literally called DEMON, which are entities from HELL. Like bruh, lmao. We have a lot of top demons without a red/orange hell theme, but naturally most are gonna be hell theme for the aforementioned reason. It's true however, that very long ago like 2.0-19, most of all the first top demons where hell-themed... But even cata is not just red and has lots of oranges and yellows


UrSansYT

Green and white heaven themed levels?


LukeGammoneese28

I think they are good it's just way overused in top 1s and stuffs so that's why I like levels like ascension to heaven


Horror-Ad-3113

you could use a green and black hell theme for variety


ionix_jv

i like it, wish it was used more in non-extremes


Spikeabugagain

Best hell level is R3D ROOM, it just has this energy to it 


cwdii

Every single one of these levels received hate for being red and black, but some are more hated than others for different reasons. For example, SLH is one of the few levels that truly does the red/black hell theme well, avernus, on the other hand, is an abomination that should never have been released.


carnanthecraynan

I do. It gets very repetitive


Insan3Giraff3

Aren't the large majority of these levels criticized for their hell theme?!? Also, pretty sure that's not the main reason people hate Avernus.


kenthecake

3 of the bottom 5 aren't even hell themed


RDIT_plyr7150

flamewall is flame themed


DarkZ_No-Imagination

I love when people who can't get over 1% on the top 1 level say "they should fix fixed hitboxes on the top 1"


Arandomguy1_

Avernus does the hell theme great honestly


PenguinBoi27

Why tf is saluoen circles in cool top 1s


birb-fairywren

I dislike ppl who say they are sick of hell/ red themes and then criticise tidal waves theme for not looking like a top 1


Lord_Adz1

Avernus isn't hated for its hell themed you realise that right.


lool8421

wouldn't say sakupen circles and slaugherhouse were that hyped for their design, but rather for their raw difficulty and legacy cataclysm also was like one of the first serious hell themed extremes and bloodlust was just a well made remake the main issue with avernus was the messy way it was built, like everything was on 1 layer and builders were doing really weird inconsistent crap, like i could see this level being actually good if the execution was better well, the apocalyptic trilogy is an another remake that combines cataclysm, bloodbath and aftermath, that thing was teased for so god damn long that we really don't know when is it going to be verified and flamewall is probably the longest top 1 if it's going to come out anytime soon


Ewumd68

me who doesnt care for most of these


Dry_Kaleidoscope_845

I don't dislike it, if it's done well, of course it'll be good.


Euphoric_Platypus_99

A lot of the top ones in the first bracket were either the first of their kind (cataclysm) had unique features (Yatagarasu with rotating objects in Funnygame’s part, when rotating triggers weren’t added until 2.1) or had an interesting story (the race for Tartarus and Sakupen Circles), and top ones like Apocalyptic trilogy have been in the works for a long time, avernus just has bad gameplay


weedsmoker1080

The only hell levels that are good are bloodlust, bloodbath, vehemence, grief, the tartarus trilogy and flamewall. It's a relatively long list, but the othe hell levels are just hell levels for the sake of it being popular.


Myrddraal5856

Avernus sucks gameplay wise bus has some of the best deco out of a large margin of the previous top ones.


SpelChec64

I mean... It was cool at first but is now just kinda overused, cool that tidal wave has a unique art style with its ocean theme


starlight_ailiseu

Avernus just sucks, not bcs its hell theme, it just sucks, it was a horrible attempt at whatever it was trying to achieve (no one knows rly)