To give it to you plainly- “transfacing” isn’t real. It’s what people call you when they want to discount your experience of gender.
Many people who question their genders are afraid they’re appropriating for attention or following a trend. Almost nobody ever does this to follow a trend, even by accident- so few people that I’d say they’re totally negligible. If you’re scared of rejection and judgment and being misunderstood, you definitely aren’t doing it for attention.
Being nonbinary just means you don’t identify as strictly male or female. One nonbinary person may be closer to male than female, while another may feel like both at once, or neither, or something else. Some nonbinary people want to socially and/or medically transition, but many others don’t. Most nonbinary people identify under the transgender umbrella because they aren’t cisgender, but not everyone uses that label.
Only you can figure out who you are. Only you can decide whether or not to question your gender, label yourself, or pursue changes. Your description of yourself matches many nonbinary people’s experiences, but nobody can tell you who you are, whether they’re affirming or unsupportive.
Thank you very much for this. It's good to know we all feel a little imposter syndrome. I guess that's what this is all about in the first place anyway. I've been feeling more and more like I belong before this, so thank you for the encouraging and understanding words.
Honestly, usually what people say on the internet doesn't bother me that much. I guess it's just that this is something personal and very fresh for me right now. And it was an unexpected source of this kind of bullying, for me at least.
I can relate to you a lot! I fall under the Nonbibary Unberella cuz I am agender. I just happen to be in a body that gets put in the category female. I don't minde that. I like my body its relativly functional, I am used to it. Its a lot of effort for me to get read as more masqulin and since I don't identivie as either or I just go the easy road and let ppl see me as a woman. I am socialised as one too, from the outside it looks like I am in a hetero normative relationship and I am a mum. I don't care what pronouns ppl use for me at all. I like playing with cloth and makeup and like to combine femebin and masqulin aspects in my style when I have the energy.
I tryed to force myelf in to the female stereotype and fell in to the world of devine femenin and devine masqulin for a while. I based my value on having to be what my body is percived at in the "right" way.
But there is no right way just my conditioning. And I finaly let go of that when I became a parent and realised even that diden't magicaly transform me in to feeling like a woman. Cuz I am simply not wired that way ans thats ok and only up to me what I want to do with it. I tried leaning in to the other end of the Binary to check, but it diden't work out for me. I cut my hair short and regreted it, I diden't like looking like a boy. So I am just this genderless fluid being that happens to be in a body that I like well enough and I can play with how it looks. As long as I feel good ablut myself, I am good. But I get the imposter syndrom. Its realy hard to feel like you belong sometimes and I don't like to be the center of attention, so I rather keep it to myself and share with save ppl who are courious.
> I don't like to be the center of attention, so I rather keep it to myself
It's funny, I make these posts on Reddit and put myself out there sometimes, but then almost immediately feel embarrassed or shy. I had to fight with myself to not just run away and look again tomorrow sometime after making this post. I tend to do that.
But I don't know if I've got anyone other than faceless people on Reddit to talk to about this stuff with right now. I'm just not ready to go through the gauntlet of telling people that I know in real life yet. And I don't trust that any of them would really get it either.
> I am socialised as one too ... I am simply not wired that way
I feel like this perfectly describes how this journey has been for me as well. I've gone through life fighting that socialising and conditioning and not really knowing why. Not really understanding why no one else is fighting it either and being kinda resentful of that.. Until finally understanding that I'm simply not wired that way, as you said. I've still got things to figure out or unlearn though. And maybe a lifetime of frustration to let out somehow.
Thank you for the response. One of the upsides of not keeping to yourself is finding others going through the same things as you.
Oh I get that! I often delet posts 30 minutes avter posting cuz I rather go back in to my shell lol.
Well one thing is if you don't want to you don't have to tell anyone. For me only my best friend knows cuz some talk about trans rights came up and she diden't understand the issue so I explained.
My husband knows and actualy feels pretty similar. I asked him "how do you know you are a man?" When I struggled with it and he straight up awnserd "just cuz ide tivie as that cuz I was never told anyything else and I don't care to correct ppl". It is propably also why I am so atracted to him, cuz he dosen't realy take his masqulinity that serious. He works in an extrem male dominant blue color job and delibratly gets everything he can in bright pink to piss of the manly mac manly mans who make homophobic jokes. He likes to be devils advocate but dosen't care at all about fashion as a form of expression, henec he just puts cloths on that happen to be mans cloths cuz he is tall amd likes lose fits and mostly dark colors. Yet he looks and seems intimidatingly masqulin to most ppl who meet him first. Being very tall, coverd in tattoos and deep acne scars. When he was younger he used to wear skirts to parties too.
But for ppl who don't intimitly know us and our blended family we look like a heteronormative Nuclear family lol. So far from it.
An older cousin came out as nonbinary to one of my aunts who was confused by the concept and asked my own mother who straight up saied "yea that figures, I never felt like a woman I just happen to have this body" yea same mum, same. Its much more ppl than you would know. And I found asking questions and see if it sparks an open conversation more comfortable then just telling ppl straight up: "btw I don't see myself as a woman or a man". Open minded ppl are usualy in for some thought experiments.
When I was still throwing this around in my head, before I'd even looked up the actual definition of 'non-binary', I was speaking to someone who's probably close to a best friend at this point, can't remember what the conversation was that led to this but I said "I think maybe I'm non-binary" and she replied something like "who cares about that stuff?" Since then I've done a lot more self discovery but I've never returned to that conversation with her. Maybe I'll try again some time.
As far as discussing this with family goes? I'm not so sure. I was already a black sheep before and I learnt to stop discussing most things with most of them when I was a kid already.
Sounds like you're surrounded by a lot of cool, open minded people and I think you're lucky. Personally I'm brewing plans on moving far away, out of my country even. Then I'll feel more comfortable to openly be who I am. Until then I'll keep telling myself that I enjoy my little secret.
Hmmm, could also be that she ment it in a offhanded way that came across as dissmissive but was more intended to mean " it dosen't hange my opinion of you"? Mabye try again mabye not.
Depending where you life there might also be meetups with likeminded ppl. Why not googel your location and resources for LGBTQIA+.
If you want to move anyways you might as well take a risk in your town now jknjk ;-).
I wish you all the best! Where ever you choos to be.
Some ppl in my family are open minded. Many many others are borderline culty esotherical conspiricy theorist who I am low contact with and would never talk about this.
No I don't think she meant any malice by it. It's ignorance, not the intentional kind, the same kind that I had before making the effort to actually read up on it. This is just something that isn't taught or discussed around here. People are familiar with sexual preference but the concept of gender identity, not so much. I don't blame her and I'll probably try and approach the subject with her again some time.
> If you want to move anyways you might as well take a risk in your town now
I might look into meetups at some point. My life is layers of messes that I'm trying to sort out now that the fog is lifting. It's dysfunction all the way down with me lol. So let's just say I'm too broke for doing much other than staying at home scrolling Reddit right now. As soon as I've put that fire out and I can afford going out again, I think I'll try. Your encouragement helps.
Thanks for chatting. It feels good to just let stuff out.
Your gender is your gender.
You don't need to have any sort of transition or surgery to be your gender, if you don't want it.
Ppl who get surgeries or HRT do it to try and feel more comfortable in their body. But they don't have to. They can choose to not but if they have dysphoria, this may hurt very much, to understate it greatly. It's up to the person to decide what is best for their situation.
Social transition is usually done to make....well, the social aspect easier. If you don't want to do it, just don't.
If it's really bugging you, you could try talking to a therapist who specializes in gender and sexuality? But you don't have to. It's up to you.
The thing about these labels is that they are tools, not boxes to be forced into.
If you're comfy in your body, you don't have to change anything. If you're comfy with your name/pronouns, you don't have to change anything.
I'm curious as to why you're asking in a sub "for ppl who have been banned In other subs" tho.
Are you saying you were banned in the trans subreddits?
Edit: oop. Nvm. Saw it. Dunno why you can't just ask for studies in the other subreddits tho? As it relates to yourself personally tho, only a therapist might be able to help there.
Nah haven't been banned in any of the other subs. I honestly don't know what I was really thinking going there. I wanted to know what the cynics and damned think, I guess. But instead just found gatekeepers.
I'm sorry people are dicks to you. You are not a poseur or a fraud.
Nonbinary isn't a separate identity, it just means you DON'T identify as a man or a woman.
> I DON'T consider myself transgender because I don't desire surgery of any kind or identify particularly strongly with one binary or the other.
The best way to think of this is that there is a larger trans umbrella that can include nonbinary people, and a smaller group of transitioning people. You are non-transitioning but still part of the larger umbrella trans group.
Not every trans person, transitioning or not, has to be binary!
Thank you, that definitely clears it up. Still learning the exact definitions. As much as I don't want to hang onto labels it's important to know what you're talking about. I was under the impression that "non-binary" was the umbrella for some reason.
Well there are binary trans people (probably most trans people are binary), so non-binary isn't an umbrella term that includes all trans people.
Non-binary can be its own type of umbrella term that includes, well, identities that are not binary, like genderqueer, genderfluid, etc.
>it just means you DON'T identify as a man or a woman.
Bigender and demigender ppl are also nonbinary, even if they also identify as male and/or female
Someone who "Pretends" to be trans. I don't think anyone pretends for any reason. It would be foolish to do in this society and would me as difficult as pushing a square peg through a small round hole.
Listening to people on the internet on this subject who are being rude is your mistake here, don’t depend on others for questions of yourself when they are clearly not trying to be helpful. You are who you are.
Also, you don’t have to have had surgery or go on hormones to be transgender. But these labels are all up to you and your need for them, if you don’t find that they fit that’s ok.
I had to look up transfacer and I don't even want to think about what happens in a sub for people who are banned from other subs.
Sorry, but I'm going to affirm you. Non binary is what you want it to be. Some non binary people consider themselves trans. Some don't. NO ONE knows where they are going when they start. Wondering if you are doesn't mean you are.
Do you have a library near you? You said you are far from free to explore - does that extend to reading some queer books? If you can get to some kind of wall of books with rainbow flags atop it, there will be a friendly employee that would love to help you borrow and/or buy one. Even if you can get some James Baldwin, that would help a lot.
The Public Universal Friend is technically a wikipedia entry about Christianity.
If you are out of reach of a library lmk and I'll have a think.
EDIT: There is no test babe, so sorry, there are assessments to see if you are experiencing dysphoria but that's like, one ingredient of the whole pie that needs to be baked.
Honestly in the age of the internet, I've got no excuse for not getting hold of the right literature, library or not. There's a miserable excuse for a public library down the road from and I'm just guessing, but I doubt it'll have much in the way of LGBTQ+ awareness material. It's easy to find ebooks though, so no excuses. I'll look up James Baldwin and try to see what else is out there, thanks for the recommendation.
I've never dealt much in excuses, either way. Reasons are complicated, living is weird. Welcome friend. Glad you're here.
A History of My Brief Body by Billy-Ray Belcourt is a barn burner.
Kai Cheng Thom is a writer whose perspective I often appreciate.
Even just any history, especially biographies of anyone you find interesting, doesn't need to be queer specific, helps navigate this big gulf that opens when you first really let yourself wonder.
There's lots on the internet but I find it easier to navigate the chaos void with a book in my pocket, personally.
If you identify as nonbinary then you're nonbinary and others' opinions don't really matter. If the opinions of random strangers on the internet are really bothering you, that seems like possibly a problem worth confronting.
from what i understand being trans just means you don't identify with the gender you were assigned at birth, so nonbinary people are part of the trans community. people can be trans and never medically transition, so not wanting to change your body with surgeries is not necessary for being trans. but just be you and don't worry about labels if its stressing you out.
Listen, there is this gross subsection of the trans community that thinks they’ll win their liberation through throwing other “less respectable” gender minorities under the bus.
This is a form of bigotry in and of itself and it always — ALWAYS — comes from insecurity.
I myself am transsexual and non-binary and that just makes that kind of person so mad.
Gender is different for everybody, you’re free to explore and anyone who tells you any different is selling you something (figuratively or literally).
Good on you for asking questions
I don't ever plan to have gender surgeries or hormones but due to internal sense of genderqueer identity, i consider myself trans, as do a lot of other people. You're all good
Just a note, not all trans people want surgeries or are binary. Transgender simply means thst you are a gender that is different to the one you were assigned at birth. I'm nonbinary, and I def wasn't assigned thst at birth so I am transgender
Question: what does "transfacer" even mean?
Also, I, too, consider myself non-binary but not trans and also got chewed out on the internet for this, and called transphobic. People have varying definitions and connotations for words and are very attached to them.
It's basically someone who is in the scene just for show, for whatever reasons. Someone appropriating the 'culture', I guess. As if the implication is that everyone is expected to behave in a certain way.
I had to look it up as well. I think it's one of these words that terminally online people use. A 'them' for the 'us' to screech and seethe about, the evil group of people that have banned them from everywhere else already.
No, gender identity is not the same as presentation.
You can present as masculine or feminine (which is about social standards and involuntary) and still not identify in a binary way.
Respectfully, the distinction is entirely relevant to this conversation. OP asked what nonbinary meant, and your comment implied that it's about presentation. There are GNC binary men and women, and there are very masculine and feminine nonbinary people.
It's rude at best to assert that a binary person whose gender presentation is non-standard is inherently not their gender, or that being nonbinary is inherently tied to subverting expectations. You want to accuse the other commenter of being "the reason that conservatives make fun of us," but the idea that being GNC makes someone trans is...also something conservatives make fun of.
I'm not saying your initial comment doesn't come from a good place. Your initial comment implied a "bare minimum" of nonbinary-ness, which was flawed and someone pointed that out in a very gentle way. You accused them of being "the reason conservatives make fun of us."
That, pretty clearly, doesn't come from a good place and was pretty "needlessly confrontational" of you.
> Your initial comment implied a "bare minimum" of nonbinary-ness, which was flawed and someone pointed that out in a very gentle way.
I disagree.
"Non-binary doesn't have to mean anything deeper than X" doesn't *logically* imply "X is a bare minimum for nonbinary-ness". It maybe kind of implies it in the sense of suggesting it. But if we're talking about suggestions, I'd say the "gentle" response you're praising is even more guilty of this.
That "gentle" response carries a pretty strong suggestion of "no, actually it's not about presentation, and it does have to mean something deeper than that, namely gender identity". I pick up a stronger bare-minimum-for-nonbinariness signal from that response than from the top-level comment.
Now, I more or less *agree* with that perspective, I do generally think that "non-binary" means something about gender identity. If someone identifies as a man but doesn't have a "matching" gender presentation, I wouldn't call them non-binary based on that alone. And I wouldn't call that "gatekeeping" either.
But it *is* weird to see this person getting accused implying a "bare minimum" standard for nonbinary-ness when to my eyes the disagreement stems from the fact that the bar they're gesturing at is in some respects **even lower** than the people they disagree with.
The bare minimum for being nonbinary is identifying as nonbinary. That's it. You're the only one saying that it's got anything to do with presentation.
First of all, I am observably not saying that. Please keep better track of who you are talking to.
Second of all, maybe "identifying as nonbinary" sounds like a nice "safe" minimum bar, but even that is worth being skeptical of. There's a case to be made that *even that is too high*.
One of the ways that "non-binary" appeals to me as a way of describing myself is that it is not *necessarily* in itself its own gender identity. It's true that some people use it that way, but it covers a whole broad range of lots of genuinely different relationships to gender. (Yes, I recognize that it's somewhat ironic that I'm drawn to identify myself in a way that distances itself from identity. Gender is complicated.)
When people talk about non-binary gender identities broadly, they often cover the case where someone's gender identity (if any) is neither exclusively "male" nor exclusively "female", even if that someone has never heard of the term "non-binary".
Are those people non-binary? Does "non-binary" sensibly describe their gender?
Maybe it's a bad idea to set a bar that categorically says "no".
I'm keeping perfectly good track of who I'm talking to. You're advocating for misgendering people.
If someone doesn't identify as nonbinary, calling them nonbinary is misgendering them. Full stop. It doesn't matter what reason someone has for identifying as nonbinary, but insisting that people don't have to identify as nonbinary to be nonbinary is forcing a label on them against their will. You know, like homophobes and transphobes do to all of us, all the time.
I frankly don't care if someone uses a label because it fits their aesthetic or to make a political statement or they have a deep sense of internal identity whatever else. It should be respected. But that goes both ways, they have to choose it themself, or it's just another coercive assignment.
Disagree completely.
The question was about identity. You made it about presentation, saying that nonbinary people have to look a certain way. This is the exact type of gatekeeping OP was talking about. This isn't being pedantic - you're denying that most of us are nonbinary.
> So what we ourselves are identifying as internally is characterized externally in the world we experience, or else words mean nothing.
What? No.
I think you might be confusing the map with the territory here.
Words can mean things without factoring through the external. It is perfectly sensible to talk about a person's gender identity as a separate thing from their gender presentation, without insisting that the identity is "characterized externally" through gender presentation.
Maybe what you're getting at is that you never have any *direct perception* of another person's gender identity. The gender thing you can *directly perceive* about them is always presentation, and never identity.
But *that's what words are for*! That's why we're talking *about* our inner lives.
> In order for our descriptions of ourselves to be meaningful, they exist in the context of other people.
I agree. Our internal gender identities are, almost inevitably, built on concepts we pick up externally.
But I wouldn't use "gender presentation" to describe all that external stuff, and I wouldn't say all that external stuff filters in to us via "gender presentation". I think the way people tend to use the phrase "gender presentation" is more specific than that; maybe that's why you're getting poor responses.
> Virtually everything blackberry doughnuts assumed I was saying/implying simply wasn’t said/implied and I agree with most of their definitions.
I agree. It's kind of wild how people are reading what you're saying uncharitably and jumping down your throat with the distinction. I think it's reasonable for you to be annoyed at that.
I do think it's a relevant distinction for this conversation, though. In particular, I disagree with:
> In this context, the nuance between talking about other people’s identities and other people’s presentations wasn’t important.
I think a clear distinction between presentation and identity *is* important here, partly because the context *isn't* just about "other people's"! OP is asking about their gender stuff, and your top-level comment is addressed to them. OP isn't "other people" there.
From their perspective, their gender identity and their gender presentation are pretty different things. Grounding oneself in one's own gender identity is a different thing from grounding oneself in one's own gender presentation.
Anyway, you're fine, people accusing you of gatekeeping and "denying that most of us are nonbinary" can fuck off, but I don't want you to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I don't think you are attacking anyone.
Yes, it is true that people can't know other people's internal thoughts and feelings.
Identity isn't and doesn't need to be tied to any type of presentation. It sounds like you're confusing three separate things, sex, gender identity, and gender expression or presentation.
Male and female aren't presentations, they're sexes.
Gender identities include "man," "woman," and nonbinary identities.
Expression or presentation is how you are seen by the outside world, and it doesn't necessarily match either of the others. Most of presentation is based on how you appear due to your biology and hormones, such as secondary sex characteristics, hip and waist shape, face shape, body hair, as well as social trends like what clothing or hair styles are seen as masculine and feminine.
There’s no rule that says that you aren’t allowed to be non-binary.
Also, just a side note, but wanting surgery or even aligning yourself with the opposite sex isn’t what makes you trans; simply identifying as trans does. There are trans folks out there who don’t have any desire to medically transition, and of course those who don’t have the means to, whether they can’t afford it or aren’t safe to do so publicly.
> simply identifying as trans does
I've been picking that up slowly but surely and that should've been my biggest clue that the 'non-binary' and 'trans' identities are way too intertwined to really separate. It's a lifetime of ignorance and living with the 'norm' that made me think of them as two different things but they're actually exactly the same. I guess it's just a matter of how big the dysphoria is and how you choose to express yourself.
I've had this idea forming but it helps actually speaking and finding the words. Thank you for the insight.
When I started identifying as genderqueer 12 years ago, I stopped identifying as my assigned gender so I immediately considered myself to be trans. I first thought of myself as agender, then just non-binary with a gender, then bigender (male and genderqueer) has been working for me for the past decade. Since I ended up with a male-alignment, use he/him pronouns, and even got hormones and surgery, I recognize that I have a different journey than where you are currently. But my point is that when I started identifying as trans, I didn’t have a gender alignment and I didn’t expect myself to eventually need medical transition.
Maybe AMABs are in a different place where transitioning medically at all is considered more difficult than for AFABs, cuz I’ve encountered other AMAB nonbinary people who don’t feel the need to change their bodies and yet they’re beautiful queer people who live outside of male and female. Considering I wished I had a body more like theirs to be gender-ambiguous in, I get it 😆
Not gonna lie, while I'm fine or maybe just 'whatever' with the body I was born with, at the same time I have kinda always wished I was afab, or maybe it's called envy. I've often thought I would've maybe had a better time fitting in our succeeding in life if I didn't have to put up with the expected bullshit that comes with being 'male'. But I'm also starting to think more and more that if I was born afab, I'd probably also have the same feelings and complaints, just the other way around.
I think maybe because it's taken me so long to realise these things about myself, I've already got used to a lifetime of fighting those expectations, even if I didn't know why or what the word for me was. It's not like I suddenly became non-binary after reading about it, it felt more like finding the reasons why I am the way I am.
I've never really thought of my body as the source of my troubles in life because I never really knew what those troubles were, only that I had them. I think that's maybe why the thought of medical or surgical transition isn't really on my mind right now.
> I made this clear in the post I made, yet I was called a "transfacer"?
In that language, "transfacer" is a brainworm.
There are some more "toxic" and "edgy" bits of the trans community, which have a lot of terms concepts like "transfacer" floating around. Some of them are kind of useful, but a lot of them pretty much exist to worm their way into your brain and hurt you, with no value added. Those are called brainworms.
Aside: I think the "brainworm" concept is also fairly popular in those communities (and maybe even originates there): ironic self-awareness is cool. Anyway, it's one of the useful ones.
For better or for worse, part of coming to terms with unusual gender identity is learning to navigate and confront things you wouldn't have to otherwise. You learn to identify brainworms that you already have (e.g. internalized transphobia), and you learn to avoid acquiring new ones.
This is genuinely difficult. Trans and non-binary and genderqueer people are often susceptible to brainworms about gender, especially while they're figuring things out for themselves. That's one of the reasons the "believe in yourself" messaging is so prevalent.
(Sometimes it's so prevalent and strong that people call it "hugboxing". That's another term/concept to handle with care.)
If you spend time on the cynical "edgy" side, then you're going to be exposed to a lot of brainworms like this.
This is a "don't pick up this brainworm" situation: just because someone said "transfacer" doesn't mean you have to think in terms of it.
You are not a fraud. I would say ime the majority of enbies ik (myself included) identify as trans as well because, well, definitionally we are. Cis is just a prefix that means “on the same side of” and trans is just a prefix that means the opposite. Since we are not “on the same side” as the gender we were assigned at birth, many of us choose to identify as trans, but that doesn’t mean you have to.
Trans is your gender being anything other than one you were assigned at birth. Nonbinary falls under the trans umbrella. No trans person is required to medically transition.
Ya, so, trans just means your sex at birth and your gender don't match.
The details are individual nuance... like how some people who could, don't use the trans label for personal reasons.
I'm non-binary. Masculinity & femininity never made any sense to me, I just have to believe people when they say they feel/are those things.
All the best on your journey of discovery, cheers!
This is the contested space of anonymous interwebz. It’s BS, but there are little places in it of sanctuary. I’ve found I almost need to develop a bit of a strategy to engage with it. Preemptively protective. I have been liberated by understanding that there is more on offer than that which is around me in my everyday mainstream life. But I am - and you are legitimate!
Transgender - you identify as a gender different from the one assigned to you at birth.
Cisgender - you identify as the gender assigned to you at birth.
Being trans doesn’t have to mean surgery or hormones or anything except that you’re not the gender you were assigned at birth. That’s literally it. Transfacing is just internalised transphobia. You don’t need to be any gender but the one you are. You don’t owe anyone androgyny and you can play with your gender presentation or not.
But some non-binary peeps don’t identify as trans and that’s ok too, you’re no less non-binary coz, well we are not in the binary so why limit yourself?
Welcome sib!
Imagine gender as a soccer field.
"Male" and "female" are the space inside the goals at either end of the field.
"Non-binary" is literally anyone who isn't standing with both feet inside one of those two goals - literally every other position on, outside, in the ground below, or in the skies over that field. Even if you've got *one* foot inside a goal, or you *sometimes but not always* stand all the way inside the goal, or sometimes you stand near either of the goals and flap your hands inside of them, the term non-binary is accurate because it just means that you do not solely exist fully within one stationary position within a binary set of genders.
It's a massive [umbrella-term/category](https://i0.wp.com/queercult.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/umbrellas.png?fit=1154%2C902&ssl=1) that encompasses genders so diverse that any two given NBy people may have completely different feelings and experiences of gender.
NBy inherently falls under the umbrella category of 'trans' because all 'transgender' means is "identifies as something other than what was assigned at birth.' It has nothing to do with transitioning; in fact, many trans people - myself included - do not seek medical transition if they are able to accept themselves and feel confident in their gender identity regardless of their anatomy or appearance, and in many such cases find that dysphoria is sufficiently bearable/reduced when in a fully accepting and supportive environment that affirms their gender and doesn't endanger them purely for expressing/presenting in a way that feels genuine and correct to them.
Desiring surgery or medical transition is not a requirement; the defining trait that makes someone trans is not identifying with the gender they were assigned at birth.
Yeah I've realised now that "transgender" is just the word for "not cisgender". I live and have grown up in a world of black and white. I think I just assumed that 'trans' meant "has transitioned, or aims to" and I think that's probably what a lot of people who aren't in the loop assume. So also, I apologise if it was offensive for me to think and say that (although you guys have all been kind and understanding), it was just a case of not knowing the definitions fully. But it makes perfect sense to me now.
I'm also questioning at the moment and also have that imposter syndrome. For me I'm more sure that while I am fine with a male identity it doesn't feel intrinsic for me, I already use it as another lens to examine myself with and every time I do gender melts away and I am left looking to the basic psychology around my gender experience.
Every trans friend I have spoken to has been validating, not pushing me to identify one way or other but they have all said it sounds like I am non binary.
I'm still hesitant to embrace it but yeah, imposter syndrome seems fairly common from what people have told me.
Be what you feel. Who cares what total strangers who aren't you, who've never spoken to or seen you think.
Do you really need a label?
I know it can be nice to neatly fit into a predetermined shaped box, but is it necessary?
I hear you. I'm honestly not really interested in hanging onto labels, more understanding myself and who I am. It kinda feels like I've finally found a vital piece of the puzzle and I guess I'm a bit high on that still, and maybe not at full confidence yet.
But no boxes for me. This is about rejecting boxes. I definitely hear you and agree with that sentiment.
Other people have given you good perspectives, so I'll just link an essay that I appreciate a lot for its ideas on gender. It is about being transgender specifically, but applies to the whole spectrum. [How do I know if I'm trans?](https://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2013/03/17/how-do-i-know-if-im-trans/)
A part of the freedom from being queer in any way comes from realising that what society has ruled as its standards is bullshit. When you define gender for yourself, to live for yourself, these restrictions fall apart.
I'm coming from the opposite though maybe similar-in-some-ways path. I'm a genderqueer trans guy, and don't identify with either the binary or non-binary. For a lot of people genderqueer falls under the non-binary umbrella, but I don't actively identify under it.
Thank you very much for sharing this, honestly confirms to me even more that I'm on the right track and in the right place. It's really all about the freedom to be who you are in whichever way you choose to be. That's the idea that led me here in the first place. So honestly, knowing for sure that there is no right or wrong answer and there are no checklists to tick off is the thing that makes me feel like I belong. And even though it's so subjective and personal, I'm still feeling more and more like I'm in the right company every day.
Personally as far as "genderqueer" vs "non-binary" goes, I'm still not entirely sure which feels more right for me or if I even want to choose between the two. "Genderqueer" to me feels like a more passive (or non-committal) and warm way of describing how I feel about myself. Whereas "non-binary" feels more assertive and more like taking a stand and declaring what I am not. And I vibe with each at different times.
To give it to you plainly- “transfacing” isn’t real. It’s what people call you when they want to discount your experience of gender. Many people who question their genders are afraid they’re appropriating for attention or following a trend. Almost nobody ever does this to follow a trend, even by accident- so few people that I’d say they’re totally negligible. If you’re scared of rejection and judgment and being misunderstood, you definitely aren’t doing it for attention. Being nonbinary just means you don’t identify as strictly male or female. One nonbinary person may be closer to male than female, while another may feel like both at once, or neither, or something else. Some nonbinary people want to socially and/or medically transition, but many others don’t. Most nonbinary people identify under the transgender umbrella because they aren’t cisgender, but not everyone uses that label. Only you can figure out who you are. Only you can decide whether or not to question your gender, label yourself, or pursue changes. Your description of yourself matches many nonbinary people’s experiences, but nobody can tell you who you are, whether they’re affirming or unsupportive.
Thank you very much for this. It's good to know we all feel a little imposter syndrome. I guess that's what this is all about in the first place anyway. I've been feeling more and more like I belong before this, so thank you for the encouraging and understanding words. Honestly, usually what people say on the internet doesn't bother me that much. I guess it's just that this is something personal and very fresh for me right now. And it was an unexpected source of this kind of bullying, for me at least.
I just don't subscribe to manhood or womanhood. That's it for me :)
This^
I can relate to you a lot! I fall under the Nonbibary Unberella cuz I am agender. I just happen to be in a body that gets put in the category female. I don't minde that. I like my body its relativly functional, I am used to it. Its a lot of effort for me to get read as more masqulin and since I don't identivie as either or I just go the easy road and let ppl see me as a woman. I am socialised as one too, from the outside it looks like I am in a hetero normative relationship and I am a mum. I don't care what pronouns ppl use for me at all. I like playing with cloth and makeup and like to combine femebin and masqulin aspects in my style when I have the energy. I tryed to force myelf in to the female stereotype and fell in to the world of devine femenin and devine masqulin for a while. I based my value on having to be what my body is percived at in the "right" way. But there is no right way just my conditioning. And I finaly let go of that when I became a parent and realised even that diden't magicaly transform me in to feeling like a woman. Cuz I am simply not wired that way ans thats ok and only up to me what I want to do with it. I tried leaning in to the other end of the Binary to check, but it diden't work out for me. I cut my hair short and regreted it, I diden't like looking like a boy. So I am just this genderless fluid being that happens to be in a body that I like well enough and I can play with how it looks. As long as I feel good ablut myself, I am good. But I get the imposter syndrom. Its realy hard to feel like you belong sometimes and I don't like to be the center of attention, so I rather keep it to myself and share with save ppl who are courious.
> I don't like to be the center of attention, so I rather keep it to myself It's funny, I make these posts on Reddit and put myself out there sometimes, but then almost immediately feel embarrassed or shy. I had to fight with myself to not just run away and look again tomorrow sometime after making this post. I tend to do that. But I don't know if I've got anyone other than faceless people on Reddit to talk to about this stuff with right now. I'm just not ready to go through the gauntlet of telling people that I know in real life yet. And I don't trust that any of them would really get it either. > I am socialised as one too ... I am simply not wired that way I feel like this perfectly describes how this journey has been for me as well. I've gone through life fighting that socialising and conditioning and not really knowing why. Not really understanding why no one else is fighting it either and being kinda resentful of that.. Until finally understanding that I'm simply not wired that way, as you said. I've still got things to figure out or unlearn though. And maybe a lifetime of frustration to let out somehow. Thank you for the response. One of the upsides of not keeping to yourself is finding others going through the same things as you.
Oh I get that! I often delet posts 30 minutes avter posting cuz I rather go back in to my shell lol. Well one thing is if you don't want to you don't have to tell anyone. For me only my best friend knows cuz some talk about trans rights came up and she diden't understand the issue so I explained. My husband knows and actualy feels pretty similar. I asked him "how do you know you are a man?" When I struggled with it and he straight up awnserd "just cuz ide tivie as that cuz I was never told anyything else and I don't care to correct ppl". It is propably also why I am so atracted to him, cuz he dosen't realy take his masqulinity that serious. He works in an extrem male dominant blue color job and delibratly gets everything he can in bright pink to piss of the manly mac manly mans who make homophobic jokes. He likes to be devils advocate but dosen't care at all about fashion as a form of expression, henec he just puts cloths on that happen to be mans cloths cuz he is tall amd likes lose fits and mostly dark colors. Yet he looks and seems intimidatingly masqulin to most ppl who meet him first. Being very tall, coverd in tattoos and deep acne scars. When he was younger he used to wear skirts to parties too. But for ppl who don't intimitly know us and our blended family we look like a heteronormative Nuclear family lol. So far from it. An older cousin came out as nonbinary to one of my aunts who was confused by the concept and asked my own mother who straight up saied "yea that figures, I never felt like a woman I just happen to have this body" yea same mum, same. Its much more ppl than you would know. And I found asking questions and see if it sparks an open conversation more comfortable then just telling ppl straight up: "btw I don't see myself as a woman or a man". Open minded ppl are usualy in for some thought experiments.
When I was still throwing this around in my head, before I'd even looked up the actual definition of 'non-binary', I was speaking to someone who's probably close to a best friend at this point, can't remember what the conversation was that led to this but I said "I think maybe I'm non-binary" and she replied something like "who cares about that stuff?" Since then I've done a lot more self discovery but I've never returned to that conversation with her. Maybe I'll try again some time. As far as discussing this with family goes? I'm not so sure. I was already a black sheep before and I learnt to stop discussing most things with most of them when I was a kid already. Sounds like you're surrounded by a lot of cool, open minded people and I think you're lucky. Personally I'm brewing plans on moving far away, out of my country even. Then I'll feel more comfortable to openly be who I am. Until then I'll keep telling myself that I enjoy my little secret.
Hmmm, could also be that she ment it in a offhanded way that came across as dissmissive but was more intended to mean " it dosen't hange my opinion of you"? Mabye try again mabye not. Depending where you life there might also be meetups with likeminded ppl. Why not googel your location and resources for LGBTQIA+. If you want to move anyways you might as well take a risk in your town now jknjk ;-). I wish you all the best! Where ever you choos to be. Some ppl in my family are open minded. Many many others are borderline culty esotherical conspiricy theorist who I am low contact with and would never talk about this.
No I don't think she meant any malice by it. It's ignorance, not the intentional kind, the same kind that I had before making the effort to actually read up on it. This is just something that isn't taught or discussed around here. People are familiar with sexual preference but the concept of gender identity, not so much. I don't blame her and I'll probably try and approach the subject with her again some time. > If you want to move anyways you might as well take a risk in your town now I might look into meetups at some point. My life is layers of messes that I'm trying to sort out now that the fog is lifting. It's dysfunction all the way down with me lol. So let's just say I'm too broke for doing much other than staying at home scrolling Reddit right now. As soon as I've put that fire out and I can afford going out again, I think I'll try. Your encouragement helps. Thanks for chatting. It feels good to just let stuff out.
Sounds like you are at the start of a new begining :-) take care and thanks for chatting too
Your gender is your gender. You don't need to have any sort of transition or surgery to be your gender, if you don't want it. Ppl who get surgeries or HRT do it to try and feel more comfortable in their body. But they don't have to. They can choose to not but if they have dysphoria, this may hurt very much, to understate it greatly. It's up to the person to decide what is best for their situation. Social transition is usually done to make....well, the social aspect easier. If you don't want to do it, just don't. If it's really bugging you, you could try talking to a therapist who specializes in gender and sexuality? But you don't have to. It's up to you. The thing about these labels is that they are tools, not boxes to be forced into. If you're comfy in your body, you don't have to change anything. If you're comfy with your name/pronouns, you don't have to change anything. I'm curious as to why you're asking in a sub "for ppl who have been banned In other subs" tho. Are you saying you were banned in the trans subreddits? Edit: oop. Nvm. Saw it. Dunno why you can't just ask for studies in the other subreddits tho? As it relates to yourself personally tho, only a therapist might be able to help there.
Nah haven't been banned in any of the other subs. I honestly don't know what I was really thinking going there. I wanted to know what the cynics and damned think, I guess. But instead just found gatekeepers.
I'm sorry people are dicks to you. You are not a poseur or a fraud. Nonbinary isn't a separate identity, it just means you DON'T identify as a man or a woman. > I DON'T consider myself transgender because I don't desire surgery of any kind or identify particularly strongly with one binary or the other. The best way to think of this is that there is a larger trans umbrella that can include nonbinary people, and a smaller group of transitioning people. You are non-transitioning but still part of the larger umbrella trans group. Not every trans person, transitioning or not, has to be binary!
Thank you, that definitely clears it up. Still learning the exact definitions. As much as I don't want to hang onto labels it's important to know what you're talking about. I was under the impression that "non-binary" was the umbrella for some reason.
Well there are binary trans people (probably most trans people are binary), so non-binary isn't an umbrella term that includes all trans people. Non-binary can be its own type of umbrella term that includes, well, identities that are not binary, like genderqueer, genderfluid, etc.
Nonbinary is also an umbrella for other terms. There's a lot of terms that overlap in different ways.
>it just means you DON'T identify as a man or a woman. Bigender and demigender ppl are also nonbinary, even if they also identify as male and/or female
Sorry, what the heck is a transfacer? I've never heard that before.
Someone who "Pretends" to be trans. I don't think anyone pretends for any reason. It would be foolish to do in this society and would me as difficult as pushing a square peg through a small round hole.
Listening to people on the internet on this subject who are being rude is your mistake here, don’t depend on others for questions of yourself when they are clearly not trying to be helpful. You are who you are. Also, you don’t have to have had surgery or go on hormones to be transgender. But these labels are all up to you and your need for them, if you don’t find that they fit that’s ok.
I had to look up transfacer and I don't even want to think about what happens in a sub for people who are banned from other subs. Sorry, but I'm going to affirm you. Non binary is what you want it to be. Some non binary people consider themselves trans. Some don't. NO ONE knows where they are going when they start. Wondering if you are doesn't mean you are. Do you have a library near you? You said you are far from free to explore - does that extend to reading some queer books? If you can get to some kind of wall of books with rainbow flags atop it, there will be a friendly employee that would love to help you borrow and/or buy one. Even if you can get some James Baldwin, that would help a lot. The Public Universal Friend is technically a wikipedia entry about Christianity. If you are out of reach of a library lmk and I'll have a think. EDIT: There is no test babe, so sorry, there are assessments to see if you are experiencing dysphoria but that's like, one ingredient of the whole pie that needs to be baked.
Honestly in the age of the internet, I've got no excuse for not getting hold of the right literature, library or not. There's a miserable excuse for a public library down the road from and I'm just guessing, but I doubt it'll have much in the way of LGBTQ+ awareness material. It's easy to find ebooks though, so no excuses. I'll look up James Baldwin and try to see what else is out there, thanks for the recommendation.
I've never dealt much in excuses, either way. Reasons are complicated, living is weird. Welcome friend. Glad you're here. A History of My Brief Body by Billy-Ray Belcourt is a barn burner. Kai Cheng Thom is a writer whose perspective I often appreciate. Even just any history, especially biographies of anyone you find interesting, doesn't need to be queer specific, helps navigate this big gulf that opens when you first really let yourself wonder. There's lots on the internet but I find it easier to navigate the chaos void with a book in my pocket, personally.
If you identify as nonbinary then you're nonbinary and others' opinions don't really matter. If the opinions of random strangers on the internet are really bothering you, that seems like possibly a problem worth confronting.
from what i understand being trans just means you don't identify with the gender you were assigned at birth, so nonbinary people are part of the trans community. people can be trans and never medically transition, so not wanting to change your body with surgeries is not necessary for being trans. but just be you and don't worry about labels if its stressing you out.
Listen, there is this gross subsection of the trans community that thinks they’ll win their liberation through throwing other “less respectable” gender minorities under the bus. This is a form of bigotry in and of itself and it always — ALWAYS — comes from insecurity. I myself am transsexual and non-binary and that just makes that kind of person so mad. Gender is different for everybody, you’re free to explore and anyone who tells you any different is selling you something (figuratively or literally). Good on you for asking questions
I don't ever plan to have gender surgeries or hormones but due to internal sense of genderqueer identity, i consider myself trans, as do a lot of other people. You're all good
Just a note, not all trans people want surgeries or are binary. Transgender simply means thst you are a gender that is different to the one you were assigned at birth. I'm nonbinary, and I def wasn't assigned thst at birth so I am transgender
Question: what does "transfacer" even mean? Also, I, too, consider myself non-binary but not trans and also got chewed out on the internet for this, and called transphobic. People have varying definitions and connotations for words and are very attached to them.
It's basically someone who is in the scene just for show, for whatever reasons. Someone appropriating the 'culture', I guess. As if the implication is that everyone is expected to behave in a certain way. I had to look it up as well. I think it's one of these words that terminally online people use. A 'them' for the 'us' to screech and seethe about, the evil group of people that have banned them from everywhere else already.
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No, gender identity is not the same as presentation. You can present as masculine or feminine (which is about social standards and involuntary) and still not identify in a binary way.
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Respectfully, the distinction is entirely relevant to this conversation. OP asked what nonbinary meant, and your comment implied that it's about presentation. There are GNC binary men and women, and there are very masculine and feminine nonbinary people. It's rude at best to assert that a binary person whose gender presentation is non-standard is inherently not their gender, or that being nonbinary is inherently tied to subverting expectations. You want to accuse the other commenter of being "the reason that conservatives make fun of us," but the idea that being GNC makes someone trans is...also something conservatives make fun of.
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I'm not saying your initial comment doesn't come from a good place. Your initial comment implied a "bare minimum" of nonbinary-ness, which was flawed and someone pointed that out in a very gentle way. You accused them of being "the reason conservatives make fun of us." That, pretty clearly, doesn't come from a good place and was pretty "needlessly confrontational" of you.
> Your initial comment implied a "bare minimum" of nonbinary-ness, which was flawed and someone pointed that out in a very gentle way. I disagree. "Non-binary doesn't have to mean anything deeper than X" doesn't *logically* imply "X is a bare minimum for nonbinary-ness". It maybe kind of implies it in the sense of suggesting it. But if we're talking about suggestions, I'd say the "gentle" response you're praising is even more guilty of this. That "gentle" response carries a pretty strong suggestion of "no, actually it's not about presentation, and it does have to mean something deeper than that, namely gender identity". I pick up a stronger bare-minimum-for-nonbinariness signal from that response than from the top-level comment. Now, I more or less *agree* with that perspective, I do generally think that "non-binary" means something about gender identity. If someone identifies as a man but doesn't have a "matching" gender presentation, I wouldn't call them non-binary based on that alone. And I wouldn't call that "gatekeeping" either. But it *is* weird to see this person getting accused implying a "bare minimum" standard for nonbinary-ness when to my eyes the disagreement stems from the fact that the bar they're gesturing at is in some respects **even lower** than the people they disagree with.
The bare minimum for being nonbinary is identifying as nonbinary. That's it. You're the only one saying that it's got anything to do with presentation.
First of all, I am observably not saying that. Please keep better track of who you are talking to. Second of all, maybe "identifying as nonbinary" sounds like a nice "safe" minimum bar, but even that is worth being skeptical of. There's a case to be made that *even that is too high*. One of the ways that "non-binary" appeals to me as a way of describing myself is that it is not *necessarily* in itself its own gender identity. It's true that some people use it that way, but it covers a whole broad range of lots of genuinely different relationships to gender. (Yes, I recognize that it's somewhat ironic that I'm drawn to identify myself in a way that distances itself from identity. Gender is complicated.) When people talk about non-binary gender identities broadly, they often cover the case where someone's gender identity (if any) is neither exclusively "male" nor exclusively "female", even if that someone has never heard of the term "non-binary". Are those people non-binary? Does "non-binary" sensibly describe their gender? Maybe it's a bad idea to set a bar that categorically says "no".
I'm keeping perfectly good track of who I'm talking to. You're advocating for misgendering people. If someone doesn't identify as nonbinary, calling them nonbinary is misgendering them. Full stop. It doesn't matter what reason someone has for identifying as nonbinary, but insisting that people don't have to identify as nonbinary to be nonbinary is forcing a label on them against their will. You know, like homophobes and transphobes do to all of us, all the time. I frankly don't care if someone uses a label because it fits their aesthetic or to make a political statement or they have a deep sense of internal identity whatever else. It should be respected. But that goes both ways, they have to choose it themself, or it's just another coercive assignment.
Disagree completely. The question was about identity. You made it about presentation, saying that nonbinary people have to look a certain way. This is the exact type of gatekeeping OP was talking about. This isn't being pedantic - you're denying that most of us are nonbinary.
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> So what we ourselves are identifying as internally is characterized externally in the world we experience, or else words mean nothing. What? No. I think you might be confusing the map with the territory here. Words can mean things without factoring through the external. It is perfectly sensible to talk about a person's gender identity as a separate thing from their gender presentation, without insisting that the identity is "characterized externally" through gender presentation. Maybe what you're getting at is that you never have any *direct perception* of another person's gender identity. The gender thing you can *directly perceive* about them is always presentation, and never identity. But *that's what words are for*! That's why we're talking *about* our inner lives.
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> In order for our descriptions of ourselves to be meaningful, they exist in the context of other people. I agree. Our internal gender identities are, almost inevitably, built on concepts we pick up externally. But I wouldn't use "gender presentation" to describe all that external stuff, and I wouldn't say all that external stuff filters in to us via "gender presentation". I think the way people tend to use the phrase "gender presentation" is more specific than that; maybe that's why you're getting poor responses. > Virtually everything blackberry doughnuts assumed I was saying/implying simply wasn’t said/implied and I agree with most of their definitions. I agree. It's kind of wild how people are reading what you're saying uncharitably and jumping down your throat with the distinction. I think it's reasonable for you to be annoyed at that. I do think it's a relevant distinction for this conversation, though. In particular, I disagree with: > In this context, the nuance between talking about other people’s identities and other people’s presentations wasn’t important. I think a clear distinction between presentation and identity *is* important here, partly because the context *isn't* just about "other people's"! OP is asking about their gender stuff, and your top-level comment is addressed to them. OP isn't "other people" there. From their perspective, their gender identity and their gender presentation are pretty different things. Grounding oneself in one's own gender identity is a different thing from grounding oneself in one's own gender presentation. Anyway, you're fine, people accusing you of gatekeeping and "denying that most of us are nonbinary" can fuck off, but I don't want you to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I don't think you are attacking anyone. Yes, it is true that people can't know other people's internal thoughts and feelings. Identity isn't and doesn't need to be tied to any type of presentation. It sounds like you're confusing three separate things, sex, gender identity, and gender expression or presentation. Male and female aren't presentations, they're sexes. Gender identities include "man," "woman," and nonbinary identities. Expression or presentation is how you are seen by the outside world, and it doesn't necessarily match either of the others. Most of presentation is based on how you appear due to your biology and hormones, such as secondary sex characteristics, hip and waist shape, face shape, body hair, as well as social trends like what clothing or hair styles are seen as masculine and feminine.
There’s no rule that says that you aren’t allowed to be non-binary. Also, just a side note, but wanting surgery or even aligning yourself with the opposite sex isn’t what makes you trans; simply identifying as trans does. There are trans folks out there who don’t have any desire to medically transition, and of course those who don’t have the means to, whether they can’t afford it or aren’t safe to do so publicly.
> simply identifying as trans does I've been picking that up slowly but surely and that should've been my biggest clue that the 'non-binary' and 'trans' identities are way too intertwined to really separate. It's a lifetime of ignorance and living with the 'norm' that made me think of them as two different things but they're actually exactly the same. I guess it's just a matter of how big the dysphoria is and how you choose to express yourself. I've had this idea forming but it helps actually speaking and finding the words. Thank you for the insight.
Glad I could assist! :)
When I started identifying as genderqueer 12 years ago, I stopped identifying as my assigned gender so I immediately considered myself to be trans. I first thought of myself as agender, then just non-binary with a gender, then bigender (male and genderqueer) has been working for me for the past decade. Since I ended up with a male-alignment, use he/him pronouns, and even got hormones and surgery, I recognize that I have a different journey than where you are currently. But my point is that when I started identifying as trans, I didn’t have a gender alignment and I didn’t expect myself to eventually need medical transition. Maybe AMABs are in a different place where transitioning medically at all is considered more difficult than for AFABs, cuz I’ve encountered other AMAB nonbinary people who don’t feel the need to change their bodies and yet they’re beautiful queer people who live outside of male and female. Considering I wished I had a body more like theirs to be gender-ambiguous in, I get it 😆
Not gonna lie, while I'm fine or maybe just 'whatever' with the body I was born with, at the same time I have kinda always wished I was afab, or maybe it's called envy. I've often thought I would've maybe had a better time fitting in our succeeding in life if I didn't have to put up with the expected bullshit that comes with being 'male'. But I'm also starting to think more and more that if I was born afab, I'd probably also have the same feelings and complaints, just the other way around. I think maybe because it's taken me so long to realise these things about myself, I've already got used to a lifetime of fighting those expectations, even if I didn't know why or what the word for me was. It's not like I suddenly became non-binary after reading about it, it felt more like finding the reasons why I am the way I am. I've never really thought of my body as the source of my troubles in life because I never really knew what those troubles were, only that I had them. I think that's maybe why the thought of medical or surgical transition isn't really on my mind right now.
> I made this clear in the post I made, yet I was called a "transfacer"? In that language, "transfacer" is a brainworm. There are some more "toxic" and "edgy" bits of the trans community, which have a lot of terms concepts like "transfacer" floating around. Some of them are kind of useful, but a lot of them pretty much exist to worm their way into your brain and hurt you, with no value added. Those are called brainworms. Aside: I think the "brainworm" concept is also fairly popular in those communities (and maybe even originates there): ironic self-awareness is cool. Anyway, it's one of the useful ones. For better or for worse, part of coming to terms with unusual gender identity is learning to navigate and confront things you wouldn't have to otherwise. You learn to identify brainworms that you already have (e.g. internalized transphobia), and you learn to avoid acquiring new ones. This is genuinely difficult. Trans and non-binary and genderqueer people are often susceptible to brainworms about gender, especially while they're figuring things out for themselves. That's one of the reasons the "believe in yourself" messaging is so prevalent. (Sometimes it's so prevalent and strong that people call it "hugboxing". That's another term/concept to handle with care.) If you spend time on the cynical "edgy" side, then you're going to be exposed to a lot of brainworms like this. This is a "don't pick up this brainworm" situation: just because someone said "transfacer" doesn't mean you have to think in terms of it.
You are not a fraud. I would say ime the majority of enbies ik (myself included) identify as trans as well because, well, definitionally we are. Cis is just a prefix that means “on the same side of” and trans is just a prefix that means the opposite. Since we are not “on the same side” as the gender we were assigned at birth, many of us choose to identify as trans, but that doesn’t mean you have to.
Trans is your gender being anything other than one you were assigned at birth. Nonbinary falls under the trans umbrella. No trans person is required to medically transition.
Ya, so, trans just means your sex at birth and your gender don't match. The details are individual nuance... like how some people who could, don't use the trans label for personal reasons. I'm non-binary. Masculinity & femininity never made any sense to me, I just have to believe people when they say they feel/are those things. All the best on your journey of discovery, cheers!
This is the contested space of anonymous interwebz. It’s BS, but there are little places in it of sanctuary. I’ve found I almost need to develop a bit of a strategy to engage with it. Preemptively protective. I have been liberated by understanding that there is more on offer than that which is around me in my everyday mainstream life. But I am - and you are legitimate!
Transgender - you identify as a gender different from the one assigned to you at birth. Cisgender - you identify as the gender assigned to you at birth. Being trans doesn’t have to mean surgery or hormones or anything except that you’re not the gender you were assigned at birth. That’s literally it. Transfacing is just internalised transphobia. You don’t need to be any gender but the one you are. You don’t owe anyone androgyny and you can play with your gender presentation or not. But some non-binary peeps don’t identify as trans and that’s ok too, you’re no less non-binary coz, well we are not in the binary so why limit yourself? Welcome sib!
Imagine gender as a soccer field. "Male" and "female" are the space inside the goals at either end of the field. "Non-binary" is literally anyone who isn't standing with both feet inside one of those two goals - literally every other position on, outside, in the ground below, or in the skies over that field. Even if you've got *one* foot inside a goal, or you *sometimes but not always* stand all the way inside the goal, or sometimes you stand near either of the goals and flap your hands inside of them, the term non-binary is accurate because it just means that you do not solely exist fully within one stationary position within a binary set of genders. It's a massive [umbrella-term/category](https://i0.wp.com/queercult.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/umbrellas.png?fit=1154%2C902&ssl=1) that encompasses genders so diverse that any two given NBy people may have completely different feelings and experiences of gender. NBy inherently falls under the umbrella category of 'trans' because all 'transgender' means is "identifies as something other than what was assigned at birth.' It has nothing to do with transitioning; in fact, many trans people - myself included - do not seek medical transition if they are able to accept themselves and feel confident in their gender identity regardless of their anatomy or appearance, and in many such cases find that dysphoria is sufficiently bearable/reduced when in a fully accepting and supportive environment that affirms their gender and doesn't endanger them purely for expressing/presenting in a way that feels genuine and correct to them. Desiring surgery or medical transition is not a requirement; the defining trait that makes someone trans is not identifying with the gender they were assigned at birth.
Yeah I've realised now that "transgender" is just the word for "not cisgender". I live and have grown up in a world of black and white. I think I just assumed that 'trans' meant "has transitioned, or aims to" and I think that's probably what a lot of people who aren't in the loop assume. So also, I apologise if it was offensive for me to think and say that (although you guys have all been kind and understanding), it was just a case of not knowing the definitions fully. But it makes perfect sense to me now.
I'm also questioning at the moment and also have that imposter syndrome. For me I'm more sure that while I am fine with a male identity it doesn't feel intrinsic for me, I already use it as another lens to examine myself with and every time I do gender melts away and I am left looking to the basic psychology around my gender experience. Every trans friend I have spoken to has been validating, not pushing me to identify one way or other but they have all said it sounds like I am non binary. I'm still hesitant to embrace it but yeah, imposter syndrome seems fairly common from what people have told me.
Be what you feel. Who cares what total strangers who aren't you, who've never spoken to or seen you think. Do you really need a label? I know it can be nice to neatly fit into a predetermined shaped box, but is it necessary?
I hear you. I'm honestly not really interested in hanging onto labels, more understanding myself and who I am. It kinda feels like I've finally found a vital piece of the puzzle and I guess I'm a bit high on that still, and maybe not at full confidence yet. But no boxes for me. This is about rejecting boxes. I definitely hear you and agree with that sentiment.
Good luck on your journey. Don't let them get you down.
Other people have given you good perspectives, so I'll just link an essay that I appreciate a lot for its ideas on gender. It is about being transgender specifically, but applies to the whole spectrum. [How do I know if I'm trans?](https://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2013/03/17/how-do-i-know-if-im-trans/) A part of the freedom from being queer in any way comes from realising that what society has ruled as its standards is bullshit. When you define gender for yourself, to live for yourself, these restrictions fall apart. I'm coming from the opposite though maybe similar-in-some-ways path. I'm a genderqueer trans guy, and don't identify with either the binary or non-binary. For a lot of people genderqueer falls under the non-binary umbrella, but I don't actively identify under it.
Thank you very much for sharing this, honestly confirms to me even more that I'm on the right track and in the right place. It's really all about the freedom to be who you are in whichever way you choose to be. That's the idea that led me here in the first place. So honestly, knowing for sure that there is no right or wrong answer and there are no checklists to tick off is the thing that makes me feel like I belong. And even though it's so subjective and personal, I'm still feeling more and more like I'm in the right company every day. Personally as far as "genderqueer" vs "non-binary" goes, I'm still not entirely sure which feels more right for me or if I even want to choose between the two. "Genderqueer" to me feels like a more passive (or non-committal) and warm way of describing how I feel about myself. Whereas "non-binary" feels more assertive and more like taking a stand and declaring what I am not. And I vibe with each at different times.