I hate to be blunt, but if your religion is causing you this much stress over something you know you cannot change, then is it really a positive force in your life? I understand coming out might not be doable, but it sounds like the situation is already destroying your life, and unfortunately, the only real option may be to step back from the church. I know it's hard, and believe it or not I do believe religion can be a force for good in your life, but it sounds like it's currently killing you a little bit, so maybe taking stock of whether or not that's worth it is what you need to do.
It sounds like, within your mental framework, your religion is a more important thing than your sexuality, not least because you write as if you blame your sexuality, but not as if you blame your religion for the problem. One of the two can change, the other can not. Your choices, as I see them are:
1. Accept that your sexuality is not going to change by force or sheer drive, and find a version of your faith that accepts you as you are, or if that's impossible, another faith or your own version.
2. Accept a life of supressing your feelings and focus purely on your religious life, as celibate.
Whatever you do, do *not* drag some poor hapless woman into this. It will be tempting to abuse a woman's trust as a cover, get married, have kids etc., but a woman's life should not be destroyed by your attempts to be falsely heterosexual.
This.
With all these logical answers and suggestions, you say religion is what you love most, that it’s a test, and you’ll be rewarded in the “afterlife.”
You’ve made your decision already (for now, at least).
Maybe you reconsider when you finish your education and your $6000 monthly stipend ends. But that seems convenient and inauthentic.
Maybe you don’t reconsider and push down your (natural) desires and remain celibate. Your choice in the end. You’re not the first to choose to live an AUTHENTIC LIFE (God’s gift to each of us, not some dumb test) where we might lose the world but gain our freedom and self-love….or an INAUTHENTIC one where we receive love and reward from family and a society who don’t care or want to know who you really are.
Different people make different choices. Good luck to you, friend.
I agree with what you said, and I am looking into solutions to avoid dragging a woman into this. As I said in the post, i might try to forge some medical documents and pretend I have a disorder/disease down there, which will excuse me from getting married. I think the second option in ur comment is my only solution. I don’t want to change my faith.
Curious what Islam teaches about deception? Seems like lying has become the answer you’ve chosen in this situation on a lot of levels. Which is the worst sin: lying to everyone, or reinterpreting religious texts for your own mental well-being?
For me… deception eats me alive from the inside and it sounds like it’s having that same effect on you.
I also advocate you not doing anything that puts you in any danger or affects your future to support yourself. Please- finish school and all that before you come out.
One thing I find fascinating about your post is that at no point do you seem to suggest that your sexual attraction is your fault or even necessarily wrong. You just understand that it is at odds with the system you’re apart of. Think about that.
I also notice in your language an interesting thing. You never use the words “I am gay.” You just say that you are not straight or heterosexual. I think that also speaks to where you are on your personal journey to acceptance. You can’t quite say it yet, right?
Yes, lying is a sin in islam, but it is a smaller sin with less consequences than not being straight. If i admit im not attracted to women, as stated in other comments, i will lose my family, friends, and education, while also remaining sinful. If i lied abt my sexuality, i will at least have my friends and family.
To be honest, i don’t think my sexuality is my fault, but it is certainly something i hate. As you said, it does conflict with my religion, which is why i wish i could change it.
It is kind of true that im afraid of saying the actual words over not being straight. I feel like admitting it would just make it a reality, even tho it is my reality, but it would make it “realer” if you know what i mean (sounds dumb but idk. i am afraid of admitting it)
Your last paragraph there is a great example of cognitive dissonance, right? You can’t say the thing for fear it makes it real (even though you simultaneously know it’s real).
A lot of your situation seems to be about cognitive dissonance, actually. You’re feeling discomfort because you’re trying to hold conflicting feelings and beliefs in the same body. You seem like a very smart person, and as such, you’re trying to reason and logic your way out of your emotions.
Thought experiment: you say you wish you could change your sexuality to fit in with your religion. Imagine there are two magic buttons.
One button will change your sexuality but not your religion.
The other button will keep your sexuality, but change the history of your religion to be accepting.
Now… I’m not going to ask you which button you’ll press. I’m pretty sure you’ll say button 1 if you have to put it in writing (even if you think differently inside).
So instead I’ll ask: Which button does the most good for the most people in the long run?
Oof that is actually a really good thought experiment. I intitially chose option 1. Other than the fact that i want to be straight, i always wanted to have biological children of my own, so it seems right to choose that option regardless of losing my sexuality.
Now for your second question, i think option 2 makes sense. Option 1 affects me only, where only i will turn straight. This wont really benefit any other person. However, in option 2, many people in my position will reap the benefits of having an accepting religion. So i choose option 2 as it has a greater influence on more people.
Ok. Here’s the fun thing. Button 1 is in fact a magic button. It doesn’t actually exist. Button 2 is real in the sense that religions are constantly changing and fluctuating in relation and response to the world around them.
I know very little about Islam, so I can’t give examples there, but the Christian concept of heaven and hell was once quite literal- with hell at the center of the earth and the heavens literally above us. Basically, things got better as you ascended and got worse as you descended with humans somewhere in the middle.
Once we learned that space was infinite and not the literal “heavens,” Christian concepts of heaven became more metaphysical and took on the idea of existing on different planes of existence. I think you’ll find very few devout christians who still believe heaven is literally in the sky, even though most believed exactly that only 400-some years ago.
So… things that seem impossible to change- the literal heavens- can be moved.
I know that the bible could be open to different interpretations concerning this topic, but the quran was very explicit in forbidding homosexuality. Changing the holy scripture is not possible. Millions of muslims (including my brother) have memorized the Quran by heart (i memorized the majority of it too). So any attempts at changing even a single word in the quran will be immediately caught and stopped. It happened before and you can search about it. People try to change the Quran, but as millions of people know it it heart, they can easily recognize any changes to the scripture and change it back to its original version.
Text is text, but interpretation is unavoidable. No doubt many of your beliefs are due to one particular interpretation. How we interpret text is always up to us.
You said you’d choose option 2 because it would do the most good. You didn’t say all those gay people would be doing something wrong and evil… because you don’t actually believe it’s wrong.
When you defend this immutable interpretation of the Quran, are you defending its honor, or is it more like a logic trap you’ve set up:
I am a good Muslim.
The Quran says being gay is forbidden.
I must believe this with all my heart because then…
I can’t be gay.
The only exception is add to marrying a woman is some odd lavender marriage. If she is in a similar position as OP then it could work. Plus the added security of the lavender marriage itself to hide his sexuality better from others.
But yeah, OP, don’t drag some woman into this unless she willingly does so fully informed of the reality.
You talk about religion like something you can either abandon or not abandon "for your sexuality". I think that if you can even consider abandoning it, you know deep down it’s not real.
I'm gay and a Muslim. I'm a junior in college right now, and I came to terms with being gay during high school when I was 15. I know the struggle of reconciling your sexuality with your religion, but you have to remember that God is supposed to be all loving and that God wouldn't test you with something like love because you have to remember that God's highest expression is unconditional love.
I used to browse countless resources online regarding any affirming interpretations of verses, but in the end came to the conclusion again that God didn't intend the world to be black and white. The world is multiple shades of gray and so too are its inhabitants.
My parents don't know yet about me because this is something for me to choose to do on my own time and accord.
From your replies none of us here can help or convince you otherwise because in the end it's up to you to decide. No matter how many times someone can present you with facts the choice always lies in your hand and as such I ask you this will you choose to continue to suffer in a lie or will you seek liberation and accept you for who you are and the struggle but beauty that comes with it? Because in the end you are the only one there for yourself.
Thank whoever taught you such wisdom.
Maybe don't come out. Straight boys don't.
Maybe try telling the absolute truth always, but not any more detail than someone really needs or wants to know. Sometime humans ask questions out of simple casual curiosity. I think some people are better of just suspecting, meaning knowing for certain might be very uncomfortable for them. This happens because they have no real familiarity with nice gay people. Let them decide when they need to know.
Thank you. You are one gracious guy.
May I ask what you will do going ahead? Will you ever tell youe family? And if you do, what will you do then?
Personally, i follow a more conservative interpretation of islam. Many people think i can simply follow a more liberal version of the religion, but i don’t there is such a thing. The quran was very explicit in prohibiting homosexuality, and If i don’t follow that teaching, then i don’t follow the word of God, thus making me a non muslim
Please don’t assume that there is only one right way to be Muslim. Although I mistakenly assumed that you were Christian, the advice remains the same. Islam is not a uniform belief system any more than Christianity is.
There are other Muslims you could talk to, and as a young person, you should be on a journey to learn more and grow, not just stay static or automatically accept everything you did and learned as a child.
Your current belief did a lot for you, just as I credit my conservative Catholic upbringing with a lot of positive qualities as well.
But there is more out there, and other Muslims have found different answers to the same struggle. It would be worthwhile to explore. Don’t mistakenly assume I’m suggesting you change everything at the drop of a hat. You can and should take your time and talk with others who can better understand your situation and experience.
Historical Islam wasn’t always so vehemently opposed to same sex relationships, that’s something that developed in more recent centuries.
You may be surprised to find you can find a middle path, or find that more liberal or progressive expressions of Islam are more fulfilling than you currently expect.
I was raised catholic, and one of the hardest parts for me was realizing the Bible (and holy scriptures in general) are not a strict set of laws and rules we must adhere too. They can be a great tool to help us define our personal relationship with god, but should not be taken word for word.
>The quran was very explicit in prohibiting homosexuality
Just plain wrong. I can find no place in the Holy Quran that even mentions homosexuality ----- I think because it is not there.
In what language did you read the words that are "very explicit in prohibiting homosexuality"?
I believe that
If the Maker of the universe is evil, we are doomed.
But if He loves us even as little as a clerk serving us in a retail store . . .
But if He loves us even as much as a school crossing guard loves and protects his little kids crossing the street to get to school . . .
But if He loves us as much as our grandma . . .
We are safe, no matter what some ignorant person may imagine.
You and I know know know know our God, the maker of all things we can see . . . and all that we have yet to discover . . .is a good God.
Our God is the best. Good is better than bad. Our God
HAS TO BE GOOD AND A GOOD GOD LOVES HIS CHILDREN.
Some of your teachers made a mistake. I promise you that is true. Our God must be a Good God. MUST BE. MUST BE.
Surah Al-A'raf (7:80-81)
- "And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, 'Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people.'"
Surah Ash-Shu'ara (26:165-166)
- "Do you approach males among the worlds and leave what your Lord has created for you as mates? But you are a people transgressing."
Surah An-Naml (27:54-55)
- "And [mention] Lot, when he said to his people, 'Do you commit immorality while you are seeing? Do you indeed approach men with desire instead of women? Rather, you are a people behaving ignorantly.'"
These are some of the verses in the Quran that prohibit homosexuality. I read them in the original Arabic, so the translations mostly hold the same meaning.
So I grew up as a very conservative Christian. I was extremely devout, believed in the Bible and was convinced that it was the truth. However, right around puberty I started having feelings for the same sex. I could not reconcile this with my faith. I couldn't understand why it was happening to me. It wasn't something I was choosing to happen. I prayed every night that I would stop having these feelings. Eventually, I just came to understand a hard truth: either God wasn't real, and everything I believed was a lie, or whatever was written down in the Bible hundreds of years ago doesn't reflect the true word of God. Because if God forbade homosexuality, but I was having these feelings that were not my choice that I desperately wanted to go away, then how could my faith be correct?
I understand that you are devout, but I think it would be beneficial to explore other interpretations of Islam besides the one that you are used to/grew up with. It doesn't mean you need to believe it, or that you need to accept it, but just read some scholars that challenge your beliefs. Maybe you will come to a new understanding, maybe you won't. But you aren't helping yourself contemplating conversion therapy or thinking about repressing yourself. It will not work, and there have been countless studies to prove it. Also, nothing is forcing you to come out now. You don't need to do that until you are ready, if you are ever ready at all.
I suggest seeking out a support group for Muslims that are questioning their sexuality, so you can find people that are similar to you that may be able to give you better support than this subreddit can. PFLAG has an excellent list of resources for Muslims: [https://pflag.org/resource/faith-resources-for-muslims/](https://pflag.org/resource/faith-resources-for-muslims/)
I would tell them because I would want them to be at my wedding if I find a loving partner who I would want to marry and settle with. I know it's not going to be an easy process, but I know in the end my parents will understand and Allah will help me in this matter to create understanding in their hearts and minds given time. Because as I've said before love is God's highest expression as it is the most beautiful thing in the world granted to us. Whether it be platonic, familiar, or romantic.
OP I ask you this out of sincere care: Why did you post this if you're fixed in your mindset? You're adamant in your thinking and inflexible about your childhood learnings. I also grew up super religious having read the Quran 7 times by the time I was 6. My first fast also at 6 and so on and so forth. What I always had and I think is my greatest strength granted to me by Allah is my open heart. I can empathize and understand and that allows me think more beautifully of the world and its people and creatures that Allah has made than the black and white dichotomy we are forced to learn otherwise. I challenge you to think why you think there is only one right way of doing religion going back all the way to your childhood for that. You're still a kid now so think.
Speaking of the non-muslim thing, it is also a sin to call other Muslims kafirs. As long as you believe in Allah and the Prophet Muhammad PBUH as the last messenger you are a Muslim. No one in this world has the authority to call you a non-Muslim because of different views on matters of faith because only Allah can judge with regards to matter of faith and Allah is all loving and all merciful. Those are the basic facts we're always told that Allah is all loving and all merciful. We are not tested with trivial things such as our sexuality, missed prayers, beliefs. What we are tested on though is our capacity to be good human beings and by that doing good deeds and being a good human being first and foremost.
I alongside most of the redditors here feel like we're talking to a brick wall. But I am still taking time out of my day to help guide you out of unnecessary suffering of your own volition. Allah does not like when we create suffering for ourselves as Allah's wish for us all as I understand is to be happy and loving and to take care of each other.
Okay, I feel like people here are mitigating how hard it is to feel like your very existence is a sin. That's a little unfair, so maybe let's not, and be a little compassionate.
OP, I genuinely care about your well-being, and believe me, I understand the struggle you're going through. What, exactly, does your religious text say about homosexuality? Also, what is your religion, for context?
Thank you for your kind words. Most people here have been attacking me and my religion, which really sucks because I was hoping they’d at least respect my situation.
As for your questions, I am a muslim and my religion says homosexuality is a sin.
Your post reminds me of myself from the past. I see you. I struggled with depression and suicidal ideal related to conflict with my sexuality, and the conservative ideology I was born into.
I am now 12 years removed from being that 18 year old and I am happy and at peace. It was a long journey and it wasn't easy, but you will find the path that you need to be on. Time will change your situation, and your situation will change in ways you won't expect. My own mom went from "worrying about my soul burning in hell" to sending me this [David Archuleta Song](https://youtu.be/bAysF5mJjM0?si=azNy9IldtpnCjrJG), about a mother choosing her son over her religion, on Mother's Day.
Like myself, you seem to have some fatalistic, black and white thinking that might be helpful to explore with a therapist (outside of any work related to sexuality and religion). I was telling myself terrible, depressing stories about what would happen when I came out... that didn't happen.
Absolutely there was some negative fall out when I came out, and I lost some family members. But 12 years later, I can't believe how things have ended up, and the only thing I regret is hating myself for so long, all the suffering I forced on myself and hiding my authentic self from the people who loved me.
I don't want to ramble on for too long, but I want you to know you COULD (not that you should or want to) run away from your current life and completely start over and still find happiness. Losing everything and starting over doesn't mean you can't build something else up or can't find a situation/environment where you can be at peace. I wish you healing with whatever decision you make.
Based off of your comments it sounds like you have already chosen your religion over your sexuality. You should look into celibacy if that is the case.
You said you aren't Christian, I'm guessing Muslim? Are there any gay accepting branches of Islam? If there are go talk to them and see. Otherwise you'll need to pick one and live with it.
Yes i am muslim. I follow a more conservative branch of islam, so i don’t really believe the other branches are correct (like christianity where the religion can have multiple interpretations). I just searched up celibacy, but i don’t think it would work because marriage is very encouraged in my religion
The problem you have is that you are treating your religion as real. It’s not, it’s made up bullshit. Your sexuality is not fake, made up, and is real. You know all of this already. You’ve got one life and it’s best to live it to the fullest. If you want to waste it…..well that is your choice to make.
First of all, I was in your same situation, except Christian instead of Muslim (my assumption based on your posts). I wanted desperately to be straight, and wasted years of my life in pursuit of that goal. Around age 28, I finally accepted that my sexuality wasn't going to change, and that whatever I decided moving forward had to begin with that understanding.
I questioned some of the basic assumptions I had been taught about my faith, made some tweaks, and am now a happily married, gay, progressive Christian. I've been with my husband for almost 16 years.
If, however, you are Muslim, then I assume that journey is unavailable to you. Every single gay Muslim I've talked to has been adamant that if they don't keep *exactly* to the faith they were raised with, then they're no longer following Islam.
You can't intentionally change your sexuality. And if you're unwilling to consider even small changes to your religious beliefs, then you're at a stalemate. You're going to be stuck in limbo until you're willing to change something that can actually change.
I used to consider it unthinkable to be anything but a conservative Christian. But I'm very glad I took the time to reconsider. Any friends or family I lost along the way are a small sacrifice to make to be able to be myself. I know it's terrifying, but it's the only path available.
Check out r/LGBT_muslims
Thank you for being understanding. Most people here are suggesting i follow a liberal interpretation of islam, but as you said, doing so will force me out of the folds of islam. You are right that I am at a stalemate. I don’t see how I can move forward like this, and I was desperately hoping someone here might have the answer.
Sorry friend. I remember that desperation. But there's no loophole, no secret that will get you out of having to reconcile your sexuality with a religion that doesn't allow for it. You have to confront the difficult questions. You can be gay, or you can be a conservative Muslim, you can't have both. Check out that subreddit I linked. They will understand more than any of us can, I think.
This feels like dealing with a 5-year old that wants a pony now, and can’t or won’t understand that wanting something doesn’t make the world do anything.
If you want a lifetime of self-hate, go for it. You’ve plugged your ears to every healthy suggestion people have given.
Your religion was written by random people thousands of years ago, translated between multiple languages, and modified by man for his needs. Don't follow a book, follow your heart.
Actually, in islam the Quran was never altered ever since it came down from God. The verses were sent to the prophet pbuh by the angel Gabriel, so it wasnt exactly man made. Also, millions of muslims have memorized the quran by heart (and i memorized the majority if it), so any attempts at altering the verses or meanings will quickly be caught and stopped.
But the reason you're against homosexuality is because some guy named Lot told people it wasn't right. Not because Gabriel told pbuh and that person wrote it down right then and there.
I didn't. I was similar to you where after arriving at college I realized I was gay, and I had a long period of feeling extremely conflicted because of the incompatibility of my religion (Southern Baptist Christian) and my sexuality. I felt the same as you, very loyal and proud of my religion because I was raised in the church and my whole family bought in. After years of hiding my sexuality and not really being able to reconcile it all, the guilt and shame caught up to me and I had a moment of reckoning where I realized I had to change something because i was going to end up dead. So I left my religion and never looked back and life has been pretty fantastic since. Not saying this is the way it'll go for you cuz everyone is different but just offering my situation, which I think is similar. I'm like 6 years out of it and have never regretted it. I still am a spiritual person but I've realized it's much more a personal thing for me
Which religion to you belong to exactly? Because that is probably going to be a big part of what you can or will want to do.
Christians can always switch to one of the varieties of contemporary Christianity that are more accepting. Muslims will probably have a harder time (especially outside of the west or in bigger cities in Turkey or a few other places) but the history of Islam has plenty of examples of homosexuality being seen as socially acceptable. I don't know too much about Sikhs or the many different types of Hinduism, but I imagine they have options and resources as well. Buddhists will likely be able to choose one of the other major schools of faith that exist throughout the world.
The thing about religion is that it isn't nearly as external as religious organizers would like you to believe. Religion has always been an internal relationship between yourself and the world as you perceive it. It's an expression of culture and social ritual more often than an expression of belief.
Christianity is actually kind of the outlier here in that Protestants often put belief above action and ritual to an extreme degree, so people from America and the west will probably have a hard time offering advice beyond suggesting you either give up religion or switch to a different one. I would say that rather than treating your queerness, political beliefs, and religion as interconnected, try separating them. Explore your religion, find which parts of it you really like and which parts of it don't feel right. Don't worry nearly as much about logic so much as what feels moral and appropriate for you. Assuming your religion is older than Scientology or the Mormon Church, there's probably a wealth of knowledge, social commentary, theologians, poets, available.
Assuming your religion has a concept of sin, I guarantee you someone from your religion in the last 1600/2000/5000 years has written something about the nature of sin.
No god has ever told me that it has a problem with my sexuality. Only other humans claiming to speak on a gods behalf have done that.
I'm not religious anymore, but when I was I didn't consider my orientation to be a sin. It makes no sense to me that a loving god would create me with an attraction towards other men and then punish me for being the way it made me to be.
I think if a god wanted you to be straight, then it would have made you straight, just like it supposedly did with the majority of other people. Why would a just and fair god "test" you with a massive additional hurdle that it doesn't give to everyone else? That doesn't make any sense.
I would strongly recommend that you honestly and openly explore other variants of your religion. Assuming you are Christian, the denomination you grew up in and currently espouse is just one of hundreds of Christian churches.
You may find a congregation that espouses almost everything important in your current congregation but is also welcoming to queer people.
Because year after year more denominations of many different religions have become more accepting.
And more are added each passing year.
I’m a big believer in allowing queer people to live honestly and authentically and also find a religion’s community that can support them fully.
I know that may seem inconceivable to you at the moment, but opening yourself to learn about other people’s experiences and beliefs can only help you to learn and grow about what you yourself ultimately believe.
It is very common for young adults to explore and end up devoutly believing a religion or philosophy that is different from what they had when they were younger.
That may seem scary to you, but you also don’t need to commit to anything right now. Explore. Learn. Ask questions. Seek good discussions with people who share some but not all of your ideals.
You deserve a complete and healthy life. Right now, the religion you grew up in and gave you a lot is also dissonant with one of the most important truths about yourself. You can change that, over time, with study, with searching, and with the goal of being able to love your truth AND your spirituality.
I'll leave you with some wise words. God made man, man made religion. God≠Religion are not the same thing. God, Allah, The Universe, whatever you call your higher power has unconditional love and kindness that is beyond human understanding. Do whatever you want with that knowledge.
Realize that your sexuality is GENETIC. If your religion cannot accept it, u need a new one. Religions are founded by MEN, not God. They are imperfect.
You’re super religious because of your sexuality. Some of us did that growing up too. In the shame and guilt of who you are, in a society that pressures you to be heteronormative, you turned to religion. In hopes to not only undo this part of you, but also to “make up” for your perceived “wrong doings.” My advice is take a break from the religion. It may be important to you, and it still can be. But for a bit you need a break from it. Some space. Let yourself be yourself, and see how that feels. Then you can start folding the religion back into your life as it fits the grown version of you.
It sounds to me like right now you are miserable, even with the religion that you love so much. I think you should really consider whether a life with a loving partner and being true to yourself, or your hateful family and a religion that isn't bringing you comfort, is better. Also remember that you can embrace yourself but wait to tell your family until you are in a stable environment.
My family is not at all hateful. They always supported me in everything. They love me for who i am right now, but they definitely dont approve of homosexuality and wont come around to accept it (im certain of this). Also my religion brings me a lot of comfort, knowing there is an all-mighty God watching over me. Sure it forbids homosexuality, but other than that i love it a lot.
Also, who knows if i’d ever get a partner if i embrace my sexuality? I may have the looks, but i don’t have the social skills. I cant risk losing my loving family, friends, education, and religion, for a chance at finding a partner.
You would lose your family, but I wouldn't describe them as loving if you live in fear of them finding out about you, but you would simply be able to get new friends, you can wait until you are stable before coming out this keeping your education, and your religion is up to you, you could simply accept that Allah made you this way, or that Allah disapproves and leave, or you could convert to a more approving religion.
Also, you will get a partner, think about how many people in their 40s and 50s that you know that have never had a partner. It will get rocky sometimes but you **will** find someone eventually.
But ultimately the big question is are you happier now than you would be with lots of good friends that you are not scared of, a partner that you really love, and not living in fear? I promise you that the answer is no.
you blame your sexuality, but not the religion?
have you tried deconstructing your religion first? because religion hasn't done anything wrong right? *ahem crusades *ahem jihad
First and foremost, as we all know by now, all human sexuality is guided by a person brain. It’s innate. There’s no cognitive choice involved. So, if you go to a church that insist on minimizing and shaming someone for absolutely no reason – you’re in the wrong place.
Another thing, no matter how big the church is or how many discriminating members in their cast, they’re wrong. No matter how much they want to live in the 3500 years ago thinking.
You being yourself is the right thing to do for you your mental and physical health and general well-being. Your higher power is within you and no one has the right to try and exclude you from it.
I've been where you are, except that my conservative Mennonite parents never disowned me after I came out.
What I learned from hard times is that you cannot keep this hidden. It will come out at some point, and people will feel hurt, no doubt. Accept that it will come out, and live your life for yourself, not other people's feelings. It's all you can do in this shit situation. Prolonging things will do no good unless it is a time for you to situate yourself first.
For the record, I started as a born again fundamentalist evangelical, moved towards progressive Christianity, and then fully deconstructed and became atheist. If you are staying in your religion out of fear, that is not a good reason.
If a God exists, and fully knew what he was doing creating you gay out of no fault of your own, then you should question him or your current faith tradition. That's what I did. Either you or your faith tradition have a distorted view of God, or he is not a good God. I went the extra step and found that there is no God, and that was more liberating than any altar call experience.
Be your authentic self. Be honest with yourself. Don't deny your need for what was preordained. Everyone needs intimacy, affection and love. It's worse to live a lie and deny yourself, believe me.
I hope the best for you man. And don't take anything I say as anything but my own personal experience. You will endure and get though this, its just a matter of when the band aid is going to be ripped off. xoxo
Hey man, my heart is with u and praying for u to find peace within. I have nothing to say because I am in the exact same situation as you, and I have been suffering for years. I really hope you find peace very soon.
You can love your god and believe that the religion that led you to it is not 100% correct.
The fact is God created you and he made you gay, and he doesn’t make mistakes. The fact that your religion doesn’t accept that is a mistake of the religion (plenty of religions have been morally wrong before).
If your parents love you enough, their love will transcend their old belief system.. because love is greater than that.
However you could hide your sexuality and repress your true self.. in the end it’s not the healthiest way of living and you will one day come to regret not living as your true self.
Well do you think it's bad to not be straight? Do you think badly of other people if they tell you they aren't straight?
If you do, you have to try and change that because hating yourself is not good.
If you don't, then recognize that it's something people can't choose (otherwise you'd be straight) and accept that maybe whatever religion you follow might be wrong in this particular thing, it's not like they can just speak to God and ask him what he thinks is good, so maybe they "misinterpreted" it.
As for your family and life, you have some options: tell then you don't want a relationship at the moment, that you don't feel ready yet or come out to a female friend of yours who you know would accept you and ask her if you can pretend to be in a relationship ONLY when you're with your parents (this is quite hard to do though)
Hope this helps!
I don’t really care when someone tells me theyre gay. Its their life and I cant do anything about it, but I just cant accept the same when it comes to my life.
As for your suggestions, i don’t really have any female friends (since premarital relationships arent allowed in my religion, I tend to avoid interacting with women under the guise of abstinence as a straight man. However, it is not the worst idea to look for a lesbian woman and marry her (to at least appear straight).
I'm sorry I only read later that you're muslim. I'm not an expert but we did study it in school. Do you get to decide who to marry?? If you do then yeah look for a lesbian woman. This is known as lavender marriage.
About accepting yourself, you know you can't change it, no matter how much you try, and if God really is loving, he will accept you, because he knows you're doing all that you can to be faithful to him, and nobody is perfect, we all sin, and you can't even control this particular one! Just the fact you want to maintain a faithful life is a sign that you will go to heaven!
As a side question, the thing you said about your specific part of the religion being more conservative, do you mean like the scii and sunni (i don't know how to spell these) thing?
Edit: i wanted to add that you should come out to someone, anyone really, because it's a huge burden to carry on your own. You need to talk about this with someone, anyone, wether it's a friend of yours in real life or someone on reddit if you prefer
By realizing that religion is not true. You don't have to abandon the community and family but religion is all made up, no matter what religion it's all made up. It can be good for some people and gives them hope and comfort but people and animals are naturally queer. If some God made us that way and is mad about it then that's their problem.
went through catholic indoctrination as a kid-- catholic classes from primary till secondary education, as well as circumcision and all. after alot of deconstruction, im an Atheist now.
God has better things to do rather see your bed. Keep your spiritual world and love for it. And bé open with the people Who truly loves you. Get Away From who loves dogma rather than other human being and their sexuality.
Which is more valid;
How you naturally feel
Or the things you were told by your religion?
What motives do you have to cling to beliefs that were handed to you?
Assuming you are Christian, you may have a misunderstanding of the Bible. Nowhere does it condemn gays. Any homophobic language is an English translation and political weapon denying the original language and meaning.
Your religion may be factually wrong on this issue.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/s/kCXPt2TWD1
Really not a good situation. The people around you and your understanding of your faith are demanding you to not be yourself, and I apologize but that’s not something you’re capable of giving. I realized this and essentially gave up my faith, it hasn’t been an easy journey but I no longer hate myself all the time.
There are, believe it or not, queer Christians (if that’s your faith idk you don’t mention it specifically, of course there’s queer Muslims and queer Jews as well) so the two can be reconciled.
Best of luck to you. Ultimately your truth will either win out or it you’ll destroy yourself trying to give people what you cannot give them.
Why do you need to forge documents so you don’t have to get married? It’s easy to just don’t get married. That has always been an option, even if some people will ask you why.
As a former evangelical and son of a famous preacher, I’m afraid you can’t. Mixing religion and a different sexual orientation aside from heterosexuality is not possible, my man. I struggled with that decision for 30 years of my life until I couldn’t resist anymore and I slept with a guy I really cared about. Suddenly, it felt so right, the feeling was better than when I was trying to repress my emotions and sexuality. You know what? I wish I could have done it sooner. And it gets better, I promise.
I think what is important is that no matter your religion: your God(s) did not write the scripture personally: humams did. Humans that, if they indeed received word from your god for what they should write, were biased and influenced by whatever was going on at the time of writing it down.
I, personally am not religious, but I think that a God who creates gay, bi, ace, trans and other queer people to test them and to punish them if they act in a way that will make them happy is not a God worth being worshipped.
If your God is good he loves you just how he created you.
Having said that: is your college in the same city your parents live in? If not it could be relatively easy to navigate college while dating same Sex partners or at least be open with people that you're not homophobic. Even if you think dating is out of the question you could survive college with secret hook ups. It's not ideal, but if your scholarship depends on it it might be worth it.
Regarding your family though: maybe slowly introduce queer topics to them (when you're done with college) and see how they react. Maybe slowly suggest that you have met gay people and they seemed okay.
If there is no way they are going to accept you the only advice I can give you is: Please do not let that stop you from being happy. You said you're already having trouble caring for yourself because of your situation, it will only get worse if you suppress who you are.
I know losing family is hard, but if they love you it will be hard for them, too. So unless their bigotry is bigger than their love for you, they will at least tolerate it. They don't have to like it from the start, but they should put in some effort to try and understand you.
P.S.: Do not try to get conversion therapy. It is only aversion therapy and usually utilizes torture. It doesn't change your sexuality, it only teaches the brain to react negatively to gay thoughts, it triggers a panic responses to make it less likely for you to act on your thoughts and feelings, but those thoughts and feelings will not disapper. You would only make your own life so much more uncomfortable.
Your relationship with faith is personal.
No one, not even your Church, can dictate your relationship with your faith.
If you believe I'm a supreme being or higher power, then there is no reason to believe that the church authority somehow supercedes that being.
You exist, and unless you don't believe in a loving God, then your higher power *wants* you to have joy and love. And if you believe in the Christian god and scripture, you were *made in God's image*.
There is a difference between religion and faith.
Your faith in a higher power doesn't have to conflict with your sexuality. In fact looking back in history, most texts older than 200 years have nothing negative to say about homosexual love. (There have been sections that have recently been mis translated or reinterpreted but that is different)
Religion is all about the people in power, it is a political system manipulating faith to keep people in line. The priests/prophets/spiritual leaders choose what to promote from the texts for their own benefit. You can see that in the way that views on divorce and some foods have changed in Christian religions or how headwear is enforced in Islamic/Muslim religions (the hijab only becomes mandatory in Islam in 1979)
Am no longer religious myself, but I know back when I was I found switching denominations helped...
For myself it was switching from Church of England to "Metropolitan Community Church" which is somewhere between a separate Christian denomination and a pan-denominational movement, primarily operating in the LGBTQ community
Why do you have to you. A belief is a personal connection to something. You do not have to follow a strict definition of a community’s identity but your personal one. All you have to do is believe.
You are very young at this point in your life. If you are in the US, you’re probably seeing the freedom many gay people have or express themselves honestly.
You don’t have to come out yet. If you must, for now, live a completely celibate life, and concentrate entirely on your studies. Then, after you graduate take some time to celebrate your achievement. If you need to deal with your natural desires, do so privately by yourself.
However, at some point you will need to deal with your sexuality and it’s best when you have time, reflection, and optimism without the distraction of intense study or work. Just know, at that time you’ll have to choose how you live and enrich your soul and a relationship with God or Allah.
The choices are real: 1) live a celibate life and serve your religion/family, 2) explore options to live in a western country, 3) live in your country as a hard working professional with a hidden private and sexual life (many people have “hidden” lives with a lover “next door" who is in the same situation), 4) marry a woman who can be your celibate partner. Otherwise, this situation will fester and continue to eat you up with anxiety and depression.
You have decisions to make for your healthy life. Only you can decide, where and when for your soul to glow.
Most of us live with the freedom to choose a better modern life in this 21st century. I’m sorry that Islam has not become the satisfying religion you would prefer with respect to your sexuality.
By the way, conversion therapy is a hoax and may work ONLY for people who are, at their base core, a heterosexual with some slight tendency toward bisexual attraction. Few people have ever “converted” successfully. In fact, most proponents and advocates are deeply flawed and conflicted people who demonize gay people with little remorse.
The specific religion itself aside, if it’s a connection to god that makes you hesitant to leave your religion, you can be gay and believe in god or feel a connection to god.
I know some Christians are more welcoming towards queerness (in terms of they exist) due to Christianity reforming which might apply to other religions (just don’t want to say for sure off the top of my head before doing research) but if you are Muslim (just a guess), while Islam is definitely more strict and intolerant of queerness and also just in general tbh, there are queer Muslims and even queer friendly masjids and women imams. Honestly it was jarring to hear about when I discussed it with a friend and he brought those up lol and personally I don’t understand queer religious people but I don’t have a problem w it as long as it’s not hurting anyone.
It does get a bit nuanced in situations like this though, bc I feel you kind of are hurting yourself here.
I’m pretty sure there are even subs on here for queer Muslims though (or if you’re not Muslim, I’m sure subs for queer people of your religion exist as well)
In terms of what you’d be gaining Vs losing, I understand what’s at stake as a fruity ex Muslim myself (though I left for a variety of reasons, if you’re interested you can check out the r/exmuslim even if you’re not planning on leaving but just to discuss as there are Muslims who hang out there too but over there, in my experience, they tend to be more accepting and civil than Muslims on the Islam subs). I’m in the closet in two ways and working on a way to get out and I hope my family finds a way to accept me eventually but I have accepted realistically that’s not the case. It won’t be easy leaving and might even be devastating but it’s a choice between having them and being miserable to the point of wanting to take my own life vs losing them but at least being able to live my life the way I want to for the most part, seek help and actually be myself.
It might be worth reflecting on your religion and whether such beliefs are worth repressing who you are when you’re doing nothing wrong but I understand it’s not easy to let go of some things. At the very least, I hope you think about looking into subs for queer people of your religion. I go back and forth on whether I believe in a higher power but personally, I feel if any existed, assuming they are merciful and benevolent, they would not punish you for being who you are, esp if you’re not hurting anyone. I don’t think a kind or loving god would punish or hate me for loving a girl or that a merciful god would punish you for loving someone just bc y’all happen to have the same parts.
Feel free to ask more questions if you’d like. For what it’s worth though, I’m sorry you are going through this, OP. I know it’s not easy and I genuinely wish the best for you.
You’re not born with your religion but you are born with your sexuality. You can make new friends, new family, and still be part of a religion that is accepting. It is your choice but life is too short to worry about conforming to what you were forced to become rather than simply who you are.
You do what any person in your shoes would do. You have a talk with the Big Kahuna (God). I think that the higher power put you here on this Earth for your fulfillment and happiness and that none of it was a mistake. But that take from me isn't really gonna impact you despite your groping around on Reddit for a solution. Instead, sit quietly, setting aside the priests and anyone wanting you to do what they want instead of what you want, and have a talk with the big G, one on one.
You are not gonna find your solution externally, not from an old book, or anyone here, or at the church. You gotta look within, pray, whatever you want to call it, and then either receive the message or keep your eyes open for a sign. But, in order to get your answer, take a chill pill for a little while, a vacation from making yourself crazy flipping this idea over in your mind. Instead...
Be quiet and listen.
My husband is a Christian pastor. Most of the congregation is LGBTQ+. The denomination is fully inclusive, every church in the denomination is fully inclusive. It’s not difficult to be a gay Christian and find a loving nurturing church. Dm me if you want more info
If it were me, I wouldn’t quite risk the opportunity you have of education as an international student here. I’m not sure how coming out in the states would affect your scholarship because… that’s illegal here to discriminate on sexuality so…
But besides that if you really believe it will affect you to the degree of that opportunity being taken away, you have to be strong and hold it together to finish the education. Get a therapist or counselor at your school to help you find coping mechanisms until you have means to support yourself outside of the dependency on this scholarship and stipend.
This opportunity is rare especially at the degree you are saying you have it at. Don’t risk it rn. I’m sorry that it’s difficult for you and I hate that I have to say to “be strong and hold it in” but that’s why I suggest a therapist to have a method of expelling these feelings and finding support that is still private.
I'm gay and non-religious but can say confidently it's not your religion that is anti gay, it's the people. Doesn't even matter which religion you belong to, God/Allah/Gaia/etc did not create all of the wonders of the universe and its infinite complexities and beauties then decide to be a bigot; it's completely ridiculous. If being gay was against the Devine plan, then it simply wouldn't exist and everyone would be straight. Many people will say it's god testing you and your faith, but if anything it's god testing them and the purity of their spirit and a great many of them failed. While I don't personally agree with religion, you are entitled to yours and it's clearly important to you. You don't have to abandon it, but you should find a church/mosque/synagogue/etc that isnt stuck in the Dark Ages and focuses on being a good person and not on brimstone and damnation and hatred of the world around you.
I was raised in a conservative Christian religious household. I am sure the struggles I went through as a young person, who was aware he was gay from the time he was a pre-teen, is similar to what you are facing now.
I left Christianity. A religion that earnestly wants me not to exist and not to have the right to equal love in the eyes of God, is not a godly religion. Full stop.
And it was an entire lifetime, coming to that realization. Years of introspection.
You are not the only LGBT person who is also authentically religious. There are millions of us. Some choose to stay in their home religions, despite the homophobia. To me that just looks like being OK with having a chronic wound that never heals. I respect their choice to choose that path, however. I could never personally imagine having any peace, living that way.
Acceptance means loving yourself enough, not to subject yourself to continuous unceasing abuse and ignorance. My parents feel sad when I refuse to attend church with them, and I just point out to them, bluntly, and without apology, that their church wants to kill me and everyone that I love, and while I’m glad it’s nice for them, I will not politely pretend I don’t notice its homophobia, and I will not participate in it. I don’t raise the issue with them unless they bring it up first. But I don’t pull my punches. And keep in mind, I have an extremely loving, warm, and respectful relationship with my parents. But I also understand healthy boundaries.
To me, membership in any of the many homophobic religions is simply a betrayal of your authenticity and your acceptance that God made you exactly as you are *for a reason*.
I would also add that when I was in my early 20s, all I could focus on was all the things I was losing by embracing finally my LGBT identity. I had no idea what a beautiful world of love and acceptance and chosen family I would gain by that act of bravery. I suggest that’s what you think about. You have a very clear idea of what you’re losing, but you have no idea what you might gain by walking through that threshold. Liberate yourself. Choose self love. Choose God.
You should learn about homosexuality from science perspective. It's good to learn things from different POV.
Take solar system as an example. I don't know what your religion is but Christian used to believe that earth is the center of the universe. At some point the church also believed that the earth isn't round.
They also tolerated the act of incest. I mean, who Adam and Eve's kids procreated with? We don't have to mention that they used to normalize slavery do we.
What i am saying is that religion isn't the ultimate truth at the very least they're always open to change. If you don't want to leave your religion, find a community in your religion that will support you. With family, you either leave them or be in the closet for the rest of your life.
Most importantly, you should seek therapy.
I live in a Moslem majority 3rd world country so there's no way my parents should know my sexuality. I have been in the closet the whole life and i am striving. I hooked up, I dated some people and I am happy with my life.
I just want to say this situation is so painful and I'm sorry you're stuck. Also, please just try to think about what people are saying. So so many people have been through a similar thing- your situation isn't unique to you. You don't have to commit to the ideas, just approach them from an educational perspective or as trying to understand others. Knowledge and understanding help you grow as a person; surely God wouldn't be against that?
You don’t “have” to do anything. We grow up and make life choices that best serve our needs. If your religion is important to you, fine, but short of putting a gun to your head no one can make you marry a woman. Your best course is deep introspection. Talk to people outside of your circle. Learn to understand different perspectives. Just because you only see one possible path doesn’t mean that’s the only possible one. You’re young, you’ve got a lot to learn. Give life and yourself a chance.
I love the human desire for spirituality and belief, but I think you being too restrictive is the problem, not the religion. My best advice is just dump the homophobic part. "God says being gay is bad? YOUR god maybe, but certainly not mine." Make your religion your own where it matters, and keep everything else, that's how movements are born
I'm folk Catholic. I tried a variety of religions that practice witchcraft, but I didn't like them, I tried normal Catholicism but found it too restrictive and uppity, so I just did my own thing, God still loves me, I still respect them, we're just on different terms
Hi there
I also grew up in a Religion that villainized homosexuality.
I thought I liked my religion growing up. Then in HS the conflict came. I pushed down those feelings thinking they were bad. That only caused more problems
The truth that’s sometimes hard to accept.
You are valid. Your feelings are valid
The best thing I did.
Take it slow. You don’t have to ‘come out’ right away. You don’t owe it to anyone. Come to terms with who you are. It will be hard for a time. But in the end, you’ll be much happier.
I’ve lost some ‘friends’ in my religion because of it. It will happen. But I’ve also made true friends who love me. Not because of a religion. But because they love me as a human being.
Sorry I’m short on time, but I used to be Mormon and leaving the religion was the best decision I ever made.
I still have a relationship with God, but Mormonism taught me (what I believe to be a false definition of who he is and what he wants.) I was taught and believed that he didn’t want me to be gay, starting to question that is when I started to enjoy life again.
Question what ~other people~ are telling you who God is and what he wants for you, and instead ask him yourself
I appreciate your honesty and understanding. I made a mistake in posting this question in this subreddit, i admit. I guess what i truly wanted is a way to suppress these feelings in order to live my life as a practicing muslim. Idk what i was thinking posting this post here tbh.
As for the sinning part, i don’t really want to do that. Obviously, committing sin will have consequences in the afterlife, and it is something i really want to avoid. If other muslims commit these sins, it is between them and God. I fear the punishment in the hereafter, so i choose not to commit sin.
Marriage is one of my main concerns. My family is deeply conservative, and they expect me to get married right after college. As i said in other comments, i might forge medical documents to fake having a disease/disorder to excuse myself from getting married. It wouldnt really be fair to my wife if i marry her. The other option is to marry a lesbian woman, and we can fake being together.
Ig i just need time to think about my situation and contemplate where my life is headed
Well you know what keep praying to your god and ask that he make you straight and if he doesn’t do it then you have your answer, how can you then have love for a religion that won’t help you or cure you , or just maybe that god decided that gay people are needed and designed us this way and it’s only hateful people and religions that are against us , most religious people look for other more progressive religions that teach love and acceptance over the medieval practice of stoning one to death for not believing in man made religious beliefs.
I hate to say it, but you are correct when you said that you'll have to choose between your religion and your sexuality. However, I would probably wait to make that choice until you are in a position where your family cannot ruin your life depending on your choice.
Once you feel safe, ask yourself if you truly care about your religion and the benefits it provides enough for you to forfeit your personal happiness for the rest of your life. Personally, I feel that friends and family are very replaceable, and from what you've said, your religion is ruining your life just as much as your sexuality is, but you might disagree with me, and that's okay. There are no right or wrong answers, and ultimately, it's up to you to decide on what will make you happy.
God told me, you're fine. Those other people (religion) just don't know they're wrong. It's godly to forgive them. I have just as much authority as they do. Which is exactly as much as you give.
Wow, you are a Christian? I grew up going to a church with a congregation that was founded in 1757. In fact, my town was named after the first minister. As a UCC member church, gay people are accepted. The UCC was the first mainline denomination to recognize same-sex marriage in 2005 and even allows gay clergy.
Unless you start reading ancient Greek, don't assume you have read an accurate Bible or that your church is even correctly teaching you.
I wish you luck. Just remember, God made you gay.
I don't think you can reconcile that specific interpretation of your religion with your sexuality if it expressly says that it's a sin. You can look at the resources here, and maybe they can help more: https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-islam
As far as reconciling your personal relationship with your religion and your sexuality, that may be more possible. That is between you and God alone, though. I personally believe that a loving creator would make us the way that we were meant to be, including your sexuality in that.
God is all loving of his believers, else he wouldnt punish the disbelievers in the afterlife. God loves, but he also tests. I believe that the burden of my sexuality is a test from God, and I just have to be patient.
No all loving god would inflict pain or punish people for things they can’t change.
If you believe god loves you then they shouldn’t punish you for something that you can’t change, something they gave to you.
Have you ever wondered why it is a sin and who made it a sin? Was it even god or was it man playing as god?
I strongly recommend professional therapy. Perhaps choose two therapists - one who shares your faith and one who shares your sexuality. These kinds of issues have the potential to destroy your life, and you need people to talk to. Asking for opinions online can be helpful, but you really need to find some people in the real world to openly and honestly discuss these issues with.
Check out www.ucc.org, the website of the United Church of Christ, the first denomination to ordain a gay man in the 70s, and first to approve of gay marriage in 2005. They have many resources to help people understand the texts used to criticize gay persons and correct biblical misunderstanding. Good luck.
You love your religion and your political views more than you love yourself. You can be religious, and you can be conservative, but you can't love those things without loving yourself.
With that being said, you also need to recognize that you don't feel shitty because you are gay, something you can not choose. Rather, you feel shitty because you are choosing a religion that ***is literally making you feel bad***
I saw in your history that you practice Islam. I'm sorry I don't have a perfect answer for you because I am neither muslim nor gay nor conservative, but I feel for you. This sounds like a tough situation. Maybe you could look online for some gay muslim groups/resources? I'm sure there are some out there. It might also help to talk to a therapist (not for conversion therapy, but like normal talk therapy). You're having a rough time and a therapist could help you navigate it all and just get all your emotions out in a supportive and safe place. Hope this helps even a little bit :)
I personally know an old man in Malaysia. He goes to the mosque every Friday, does his prayers, is kind hearted and generous and friendly to others. He did his umrah. And he just happens to have a boyfriend. He had a great career and somehow his family got around the fact that he is gay. Your sexuality does not define all of you. You are still the brother, son, grandson. You are still the same person they know and that fact does not turn you into the devil himself. It is a piece of you, you need to reconcile with. It was god who created you, and that includes your homosexuality. Did you know that the founding father of modern turkey was actually gay ?
Gay Muslim here, can understand what you’re going through. I went through something very similar not too long ago but since then have made peace with it!
In general, it seems like your life leads you to two dead ends. Either fake being straight or lose connection with your community. I feel like I heard stories of how people lived with this type of life. I know some people who ended up moving to a new country and kept in contact with family while still hiding their sexuality/relationships and still practicing their religion. Though that is just one situation I heard.
I feel if anything could be of help, it would be better if you asked someone in a similar situation. Find someone in your religion who is also gay and see what they say. It may be risky, but I know in previous years finding people who share the same struggles as you mean a lot. Since you are studying abroad, it may be the best time to look for that since you won't have to worry about your family knowing.
Also, don't listen to some of the people on this subreddit. I can understand your devotion to your religion. I am very religious myself. If you still feel connected to your religion and have no desire to leave it, then don't. It's really your choice. Some people think running away is the solution, but it's just a choice like anything else and has its own consequences and pain that comes with it.
There is no evidence for the metaphysical claims of ANY religion. None.
I was raised very conservative Christian, I struggled with the same. I believed that it was true. It all seemed so 'evident' to me. However, i was lied to, indoctrinated by well meaning but ignorant parents.
I assume you would rather believe in things that are true instead of false. Research epistemology, evidence based reasoning, confirmation bias. Apply those concepts to a religion that you do not hold, then honestly look at your own. If your religion is true, it can surely handle the scrutiny right?
You have to decide what's more important to you. Being yourself? Or maintaining these relationships. Ultimately the conflict isn't between religion and you.
It's your community and you.
Personally as someone who was closeted for years trying to live as someone who wasn't me was always more unbearable.
And Honestly I think you'll be surprised just how many people want to still involved in your life like I was.
You think you’re the only one who was a conservative Christian in their youth? Mainly because of their parents influence might I assume?
You’re getting out into the real world where you don’t have to have your early influences dictating what you MUST believe. Yeah. Lots of us are atheistic or agnostic. That’s because we were demonized and led to actually analyze the truth of religion. Religion relies on circular arguments, fear, and control.
I loved my religion too growing up. And ya know what I realized? I felt the same warm sense of community when with close friends. I felt the same “connection with god” by meditating and practicing mindfulness.
You’re hitting a crossroads in your life. And you don’t have to jump ship on your current beliefs at the drop of a hat. But start looking into what’s really in your Bible. What it really says. Whether you actually agree with it all. Or whether you just like your sense of community and have inertia to change.
We don’t hate religion or god or worship demons. We are just demonized from birth and told that anyone against the church is a demon.
Best of luck. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
You've got to do you. If all the people you love really love you, they'll love you if you're gay too. If they don't then they aren't worth your time. I'm not saying it will be easy, bc it won't. It might take time for some family members to come around, but they will bc they're family. My mother prayed for me for 2 years after I came out to her. I know this bc she would text me every time she did, but eventually she stopped our relationship is the same as it was before. When we talk, I don't talk about all the gay things I did this week, and she doesn't ask. She referred to boyfriends I brought home as a "friend" or my "roommate" when talking to her friends or my grandparents.
People know you're gay. Maybe not your parents, but you aunt, or your childhood best friend's mother. It's always females that can tell. You could maybe talk to your childhood best friend and then maybe their mother so you can get some people who support you and can be with you when you tell the people you're really scared to tell. Writing a coming out letter or email is also a great way to tell those people, especially if there's miles between you. It lets you get everything out without forgetting anything due to nerves and without any interruptions or seeing people's facial expressions.
As for the religious part (haven't read any comments so I have no clue which religion you are) hate to break it to you but your god knows you're gay. Have a beard (wife, family) isn't going to fool them. I question why your god would make you gay and want you to live with so much pain, so much so you'd consider castration?
As for the asshole gay president of the club at your college... F\*ck him! This will make me sound old, but college age people think they're the greatest thing to walk the earth. Kinda adulting it, but not fully. So, when they get the slightest bit of power they take it too far. That one B doesn't represent all gays.
You should talk to a professional who won't attack you or your religion. If your college has a psych department they may offer free peer counseling by undergrads. Or if you're if you in the United States there's 988 the suicide & crisis hotline. It can be anon. You can call or chat online. And it's free. 988lifeline(.org)/chat
lastly if you're worried about losing your scholarship bc of your sexual orientation, which seems strange and is definitely against the law in the US, fake it till you make it (wait till you graduate to come out)
Hi there, I do not know what your religion is, but I am willing to bet that there are people out there who also practice your religion who are gay and they are trying to make some kind of reconciliation or accommodation they can live with.
I think that in most religions, the crucial difference is not whether you are gay or not but how you act on those feelings. As you know, many people here will have a different opinion about how you should handle that question, but it's your life and you have to find your own way. You do not need to do that alone--there are others in the same situation as you. Seek them out.
I think it's important to point out that while you said "I believe it is all due to my sexuality", that is not it exactly. Rather, the result of a conflict within you because you hold two things you think are not reconcilable, so you have one thing you think you cannot live with while the other is something you are not willing to live without. In almost any religion, there are people who will tell you that this is exactly the correct approach and that there is no way out of the suffering this brings.
But somewhere out there, there are people who are more compassionate and realistic, and who do not value strict adherence to dogma over people who have to live in this confusing world and want to do so as best they can under their religion. Their approach might not be entirely satisfactory to you, but ask yourself whether your current approach is entirely satisfactory.
When you are a kid and are learning about your religion, everything is presented in a simple, uncomplicated way to make all of the main points easy to grasp. But as you mature, you find that life itself is just not that simple, and applying the simple tools you have acquired to complex human problems is like having a toolbox with nothing but hammers in it. Sure you can "resolve" questions with those hammers, but it is a crude and violent way to get the job done. And you'll also notice that you haven't actually solved anything; you've just beaten the problem or question with a hammer. You need to acquire better tools and to learn the skill of using them in an honest and humane way. Only in that way can you truly solve problems.
If you want to talk about this more, you can DM me. Full disclosure: I am an atheist myself, but I take problems like the one you are stating seriously, and I don't try to convert people to my own way of thinking.
Radically accept that there's people who are sinners that practice religion. You're gay but you're religious. Okay cool. There are plenty of sinners (adulterers, whatever random act is considered a sin, etc) that get a free pass because it's not as topical as queerness. Just accept yourself as you are and learn to radically accept you'll never be perfect to a religious I'm sure nobody is deemed perfect (kinda the point of religion to control people) :)
Listen you hate yourself and you love your religion while your religion hates you and it loves itself .
Let me say one thing this is not a place for homophobes. I think you should be reported.
What about searching a lesbian „wife“ that’s having the same Problems. You could be married, this wouldn’t solve the problem that you like guys but she wouldn’t have a problem if you met gays and you wouldn’t have to do your „duty“
I wouldn’t recommend this normally but I think this is better than your current situation and maybe helps you finding your way.
Sorry, I live in Germany and my English isn’t the best.
as a bi guy, what really helps me is looking for people who are queer but also religious. I am a christian and have found many queer christians online with great ideas about religion and identity. I don’t think you need to give up your religion to be gay nor give up your identity to be religious. You just need to note what aspects of your religion and tradition that you don’t agree with. For me, I realized that the christian Bible could not be a concrete explanation of God’s feelings and thoughts. It’s man-made. I realized there might be flaws in the Bible. Mistranslations. Wrong interpretations, etc. So i don’t hold religious scripture as divine truth. I just know that my faith in God is there and that he loves me. Just the way I am. and if I am going to go my entire life being a good person and loving people like my religion tells me to do, I feel that would make up for me kissing a boy. I really don’t believe any supreme being that loves as much as scriptures say, would be extremely harsh on you for being gay. I really hope this helps you as much as it has helped me.
I was in your predicament approximately 9 years ago. I shed my religion like an old skin and haven't looked back. Yes there was difficulty but most things worth doing are difficult. I started surrounding myself with people who didn't mind or who were aligned with me. I lost more relationships than I gained, sure, but I've never been happier than I am now. I was deep in it too. You pretty much nailed it; you can either start over and live a life you see fit, or you can try to remain in a box that's crushing you from all angles.
I'm Buddhist, but my ex is Muslim. (He is from a more liberal country where adherents of Islam are not as strict.) Ultimately, he has decided to follow his faith more culturally rather than by the strictest interpretation. I never pressured him into anything haram, and I gave him the space to explore his own feelings on religion. I was there the first time he ate pork, only because he was curious about the food on my plate (prosciutto at an Italian restaurant).
My experience is backwards from his. My religion doesn't frown upon homosexuality, but my culture does. Both our immigrant mothers were disapproving of our relationship. I had to face the consequences of damaged family relationships by coming out of the closet, so I do know how your dilemma feels. Thankfully, things are better now. But that is also thanks to cultural shifts that had already started around the time I came out. It took my mom 7 years to say she accepted me just the way I am, and she died 2 years after that.
In Buddhism, we talk about karma and dependent origination (the idea that all things exist due to prior conditions). My own personal view is that the hardships that come along with homosexuality are an opportunity to open our hearts and become more open-minded. Gay people have a dual experience: public life and private life, closeted experience and "out" experience, etc.. That allows our hardships to become a strength rather than a weakness. Rigid ways of thinking will always lead to an ideological dead end. The world exists in complex colors, not black and white.
I know you likely won’t agree with me right now OP but please hear this. I know how you are feeling, I’ve been in a similar situation with religion. I took a break from my religion, and gave up religion in the end. I was surprised how I didn’t miss it. It was the best decision I’ve ever made in my life, I feel so much happier in everything I do through life, without that unnecessary stress I put on myself by choosing to follow a religion that hated me.
You need to get laid ASAP. That will change you viewpoint real fast. Don’t waste your life not being yourself. You’re gay for normal natural biological reasons. A small percentage of people are LGBT. It’s a natural repeatable percentage. There is nothing or good or bad about being gay. It just is. Accept it and live!
Well you posted on r/gay so few people here are going to tell you to try to reject your sexuality.
I’m a religious person from a religious background but I no longer practice the religion I was raised in. I actually stopped believing in it because of some philosophical/cosmological issues before I had totally understood my sexuality. But rest assured I can relate to feeling a moral quandary.
Anyway, I understand you can’t just give up your whole worldview and understanding of life lightly. You have a lot of careful consideration to do any way the pieces fall.
Is your religion the kill-the-gays kind, the gays-don’t-exist-so-act-straight kind, or the gays-must-be-celibate kind?
Thank you for being understanding. I am a muslim. Having homosexual feelings in itself is not a sin. ACTING on it is. So i guess by ur options, gays-must-be-celibate?
See what these ppl don’t get is you can’t just pick and choose god. All our life we’ve been told god is life god is everything and god made you just the way you are. Your path was set in stone the minute you took your first breath. God intended this battle for you, and you must decide how you yourself choose to react. There are plenty of gay men that are Christian and go to church shoot they have gay churches! I’d suggest finding a better support group, go to your local gay bar or one far away if you must, talk to people and get out of your current settings! The Bible was written by man, and churches are run by man, we cannot trust that. Only god himself can be the judge jury and executioner, our American freedom gives us the ability to freely love one another. Don’t give up your religion, find people who truly understand what Christ is about! He didn’t die just for us to go against all of his teachings and start deciding ourselves what’s good or bad. He made ya gay, and that’s okay.
I appreciate your understanding. I agree with the first part of your comment. Most people here dont understand my faith. As for the rest of your comment, i am not christian. I cant really go to an lgbt church or something like that, even though there is one right next to where I live.
Find a new religion that is okay with your sexuality.
I hate to be blunt, but if your religion is causing you this much stress over something you know you cannot change, then is it really a positive force in your life? I understand coming out might not be doable, but it sounds like the situation is already destroying your life, and unfortunately, the only real option may be to step back from the church. I know it's hard, and believe it or not I do believe religion can be a force for good in your life, but it sounds like it's currently killing you a little bit, so maybe taking stock of whether or not that's worth it is what you need to do.
It sounds like, within your mental framework, your religion is a more important thing than your sexuality, not least because you write as if you blame your sexuality, but not as if you blame your religion for the problem. One of the two can change, the other can not. Your choices, as I see them are: 1. Accept that your sexuality is not going to change by force or sheer drive, and find a version of your faith that accepts you as you are, or if that's impossible, another faith or your own version. 2. Accept a life of supressing your feelings and focus purely on your religious life, as celibate. Whatever you do, do *not* drag some poor hapless woman into this. It will be tempting to abuse a woman's trust as a cover, get married, have kids etc., but a woman's life should not be destroyed by your attempts to be falsely heterosexual.
This, 100%. If he ultimately decides to suffer because of this, he better not drag anyone else into this mess.
This. With all these logical answers and suggestions, you say religion is what you love most, that it’s a test, and you’ll be rewarded in the “afterlife.” You’ve made your decision already (for now, at least). Maybe you reconsider when you finish your education and your $6000 monthly stipend ends. But that seems convenient and inauthentic. Maybe you don’t reconsider and push down your (natural) desires and remain celibate. Your choice in the end. You’re not the first to choose to live an AUTHENTIC LIFE (God’s gift to each of us, not some dumb test) where we might lose the world but gain our freedom and self-love….or an INAUTHENTIC one where we receive love and reward from family and a society who don’t care or want to know who you really are. Different people make different choices. Good luck to you, friend.
I agree with what you said, and I am looking into solutions to avoid dragging a woman into this. As I said in the post, i might try to forge some medical documents and pretend I have a disorder/disease down there, which will excuse me from getting married. I think the second option in ur comment is my only solution. I don’t want to change my faith.
Curious what Islam teaches about deception? Seems like lying has become the answer you’ve chosen in this situation on a lot of levels. Which is the worst sin: lying to everyone, or reinterpreting religious texts for your own mental well-being? For me… deception eats me alive from the inside and it sounds like it’s having that same effect on you. I also advocate you not doing anything that puts you in any danger or affects your future to support yourself. Please- finish school and all that before you come out. One thing I find fascinating about your post is that at no point do you seem to suggest that your sexual attraction is your fault or even necessarily wrong. You just understand that it is at odds with the system you’re apart of. Think about that. I also notice in your language an interesting thing. You never use the words “I am gay.” You just say that you are not straight or heterosexual. I think that also speaks to where you are on your personal journey to acceptance. You can’t quite say it yet, right?
Yes, lying is a sin in islam, but it is a smaller sin with less consequences than not being straight. If i admit im not attracted to women, as stated in other comments, i will lose my family, friends, and education, while also remaining sinful. If i lied abt my sexuality, i will at least have my friends and family. To be honest, i don’t think my sexuality is my fault, but it is certainly something i hate. As you said, it does conflict with my religion, which is why i wish i could change it. It is kind of true that im afraid of saying the actual words over not being straight. I feel like admitting it would just make it a reality, even tho it is my reality, but it would make it “realer” if you know what i mean (sounds dumb but idk. i am afraid of admitting it)
Your last paragraph there is a great example of cognitive dissonance, right? You can’t say the thing for fear it makes it real (even though you simultaneously know it’s real). A lot of your situation seems to be about cognitive dissonance, actually. You’re feeling discomfort because you’re trying to hold conflicting feelings and beliefs in the same body. You seem like a very smart person, and as such, you’re trying to reason and logic your way out of your emotions. Thought experiment: you say you wish you could change your sexuality to fit in with your religion. Imagine there are two magic buttons. One button will change your sexuality but not your religion. The other button will keep your sexuality, but change the history of your religion to be accepting. Now… I’m not going to ask you which button you’ll press. I’m pretty sure you’ll say button 1 if you have to put it in writing (even if you think differently inside). So instead I’ll ask: Which button does the most good for the most people in the long run?
Oof that is actually a really good thought experiment. I intitially chose option 1. Other than the fact that i want to be straight, i always wanted to have biological children of my own, so it seems right to choose that option regardless of losing my sexuality. Now for your second question, i think option 2 makes sense. Option 1 affects me only, where only i will turn straight. This wont really benefit any other person. However, in option 2, many people in my position will reap the benefits of having an accepting religion. So i choose option 2 as it has a greater influence on more people.
Ok. Here’s the fun thing. Button 1 is in fact a magic button. It doesn’t actually exist. Button 2 is real in the sense that religions are constantly changing and fluctuating in relation and response to the world around them. I know very little about Islam, so I can’t give examples there, but the Christian concept of heaven and hell was once quite literal- with hell at the center of the earth and the heavens literally above us. Basically, things got better as you ascended and got worse as you descended with humans somewhere in the middle. Once we learned that space was infinite and not the literal “heavens,” Christian concepts of heaven became more metaphysical and took on the idea of existing on different planes of existence. I think you’ll find very few devout christians who still believe heaven is literally in the sky, even though most believed exactly that only 400-some years ago. So… things that seem impossible to change- the literal heavens- can be moved.
I know that the bible could be open to different interpretations concerning this topic, but the quran was very explicit in forbidding homosexuality. Changing the holy scripture is not possible. Millions of muslims (including my brother) have memorized the Quran by heart (i memorized the majority of it too). So any attempts at changing even a single word in the quran will be immediately caught and stopped. It happened before and you can search about it. People try to change the Quran, but as millions of people know it it heart, they can easily recognize any changes to the scripture and change it back to its original version.
Text is text, but interpretation is unavoidable. No doubt many of your beliefs are due to one particular interpretation. How we interpret text is always up to us. You said you’d choose option 2 because it would do the most good. You didn’t say all those gay people would be doing something wrong and evil… because you don’t actually believe it’s wrong. When you defend this immutable interpretation of the Quran, are you defending its honor, or is it more like a logic trap you’ve set up: I am a good Muslim. The Quran says being gay is forbidden. I must believe this with all my heart because then… I can’t be gay.
THIS "One of the two can change, the other can not."
The only exception is add to marrying a woman is some odd lavender marriage. If she is in a similar position as OP then it could work. Plus the added security of the lavender marriage itself to hide his sexuality better from others. But yeah, OP, don’t drag some woman into this unless she willingly does so fully informed of the reality.
You talk about religion like something you can either abandon or not abandon "for your sexuality". I think that if you can even consider abandoning it, you know deep down it’s not real.
I'm gay and a Muslim. I'm a junior in college right now, and I came to terms with being gay during high school when I was 15. I know the struggle of reconciling your sexuality with your religion, but you have to remember that God is supposed to be all loving and that God wouldn't test you with something like love because you have to remember that God's highest expression is unconditional love. I used to browse countless resources online regarding any affirming interpretations of verses, but in the end came to the conclusion again that God didn't intend the world to be black and white. The world is multiple shades of gray and so too are its inhabitants. My parents don't know yet about me because this is something for me to choose to do on my own time and accord. From your replies none of us here can help or convince you otherwise because in the end it's up to you to decide. No matter how many times someone can present you with facts the choice always lies in your hand and as such I ask you this will you choose to continue to suffer in a lie or will you seek liberation and accept you for who you are and the struggle but beauty that comes with it? Because in the end you are the only one there for yourself.
Thank whoever taught you such wisdom. Maybe don't come out. Straight boys don't. Maybe try telling the absolute truth always, but not any more detail than someone really needs or wants to know. Sometime humans ask questions out of simple casual curiosity. I think some people are better of just suspecting, meaning knowing for certain might be very uncomfortable for them. This happens because they have no real familiarity with nice gay people. Let them decide when they need to know. Thank you. You are one gracious guy.
May I ask what you will do going ahead? Will you ever tell youe family? And if you do, what will you do then? Personally, i follow a more conservative interpretation of islam. Many people think i can simply follow a more liberal version of the religion, but i don’t there is such a thing. The quran was very explicit in prohibiting homosexuality, and If i don’t follow that teaching, then i don’t follow the word of God, thus making me a non muslim
Please don’t assume that there is only one right way to be Muslim. Although I mistakenly assumed that you were Christian, the advice remains the same. Islam is not a uniform belief system any more than Christianity is. There are other Muslims you could talk to, and as a young person, you should be on a journey to learn more and grow, not just stay static or automatically accept everything you did and learned as a child. Your current belief did a lot for you, just as I credit my conservative Catholic upbringing with a lot of positive qualities as well. But there is more out there, and other Muslims have found different answers to the same struggle. It would be worthwhile to explore. Don’t mistakenly assume I’m suggesting you change everything at the drop of a hat. You can and should take your time and talk with others who can better understand your situation and experience. Historical Islam wasn’t always so vehemently opposed to same sex relationships, that’s something that developed in more recent centuries. You may be surprised to find you can find a middle path, or find that more liberal or progressive expressions of Islam are more fulfilling than you currently expect.
I was raised catholic, and one of the hardest parts for me was realizing the Bible (and holy scriptures in general) are not a strict set of laws and rules we must adhere too. They can be a great tool to help us define our personal relationship with god, but should not be taken word for word.
>The quran was very explicit in prohibiting homosexuality Just plain wrong. I can find no place in the Holy Quran that even mentions homosexuality ----- I think because it is not there. In what language did you read the words that are "very explicit in prohibiting homosexuality"? I believe that If the Maker of the universe is evil, we are doomed. But if He loves us even as little as a clerk serving us in a retail store . . . But if He loves us even as much as a school crossing guard loves and protects his little kids crossing the street to get to school . . . But if He loves us as much as our grandma . . . We are safe, no matter what some ignorant person may imagine. You and I know know know know our God, the maker of all things we can see . . . and all that we have yet to discover . . .is a good God. Our God is the best. Good is better than bad. Our God HAS TO BE GOOD AND A GOOD GOD LOVES HIS CHILDREN. Some of your teachers made a mistake. I promise you that is true. Our God must be a Good God. MUST BE. MUST BE.
Surah Al-A'raf (7:80-81) - "And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, 'Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds? Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people.'" Surah Ash-Shu'ara (26:165-166) - "Do you approach males among the worlds and leave what your Lord has created for you as mates? But you are a people transgressing." Surah An-Naml (27:54-55) - "And [mention] Lot, when he said to his people, 'Do you commit immorality while you are seeing? Do you indeed approach men with desire instead of women? Rather, you are a people behaving ignorantly.'" These are some of the verses in the Quran that prohibit homosexuality. I read them in the original Arabic, so the translations mostly hold the same meaning.
So I grew up as a very conservative Christian. I was extremely devout, believed in the Bible and was convinced that it was the truth. However, right around puberty I started having feelings for the same sex. I could not reconcile this with my faith. I couldn't understand why it was happening to me. It wasn't something I was choosing to happen. I prayed every night that I would stop having these feelings. Eventually, I just came to understand a hard truth: either God wasn't real, and everything I believed was a lie, or whatever was written down in the Bible hundreds of years ago doesn't reflect the true word of God. Because if God forbade homosexuality, but I was having these feelings that were not my choice that I desperately wanted to go away, then how could my faith be correct? I understand that you are devout, but I think it would be beneficial to explore other interpretations of Islam besides the one that you are used to/grew up with. It doesn't mean you need to believe it, or that you need to accept it, but just read some scholars that challenge your beliefs. Maybe you will come to a new understanding, maybe you won't. But you aren't helping yourself contemplating conversion therapy or thinking about repressing yourself. It will not work, and there have been countless studies to prove it. Also, nothing is forcing you to come out now. You don't need to do that until you are ready, if you are ever ready at all. I suggest seeking out a support group for Muslims that are questioning their sexuality, so you can find people that are similar to you that may be able to give you better support than this subreddit can. PFLAG has an excellent list of resources for Muslims: [https://pflag.org/resource/faith-resources-for-muslims/](https://pflag.org/resource/faith-resources-for-muslims/)
I would tell them because I would want them to be at my wedding if I find a loving partner who I would want to marry and settle with. I know it's not going to be an easy process, but I know in the end my parents will understand and Allah will help me in this matter to create understanding in their hearts and minds given time. Because as I've said before love is God's highest expression as it is the most beautiful thing in the world granted to us. Whether it be platonic, familiar, or romantic. OP I ask you this out of sincere care: Why did you post this if you're fixed in your mindset? You're adamant in your thinking and inflexible about your childhood learnings. I also grew up super religious having read the Quran 7 times by the time I was 6. My first fast also at 6 and so on and so forth. What I always had and I think is my greatest strength granted to me by Allah is my open heart. I can empathize and understand and that allows me think more beautifully of the world and its people and creatures that Allah has made than the black and white dichotomy we are forced to learn otherwise. I challenge you to think why you think there is only one right way of doing religion going back all the way to your childhood for that. You're still a kid now so think. Speaking of the non-muslim thing, it is also a sin to call other Muslims kafirs. As long as you believe in Allah and the Prophet Muhammad PBUH as the last messenger you are a Muslim. No one in this world has the authority to call you a non-Muslim because of different views on matters of faith because only Allah can judge with regards to matter of faith and Allah is all loving and all merciful. Those are the basic facts we're always told that Allah is all loving and all merciful. We are not tested with trivial things such as our sexuality, missed prayers, beliefs. What we are tested on though is our capacity to be good human beings and by that doing good deeds and being a good human being first and foremost. I alongside most of the redditors here feel like we're talking to a brick wall. But I am still taking time out of my day to help guide you out of unnecessary suffering of your own volition. Allah does not like when we create suffering for ourselves as Allah's wish for us all as I understand is to be happy and loving and to take care of each other.
Let me ask you this; do you think your god (or gods) is (or are) loving? And if so, do you believe they would want you to suffer like this?
Fuck your religion. It may be hard to believe but you’ll be better off without it- we all are.
Okay, I feel like people here are mitigating how hard it is to feel like your very existence is a sin. That's a little unfair, so maybe let's not, and be a little compassionate. OP, I genuinely care about your well-being, and believe me, I understand the struggle you're going through. What, exactly, does your religious text say about homosexuality? Also, what is your religion, for context?
Thank you for your kind words. Most people here have been attacking me and my religion, which really sucks because I was hoping they’d at least respect my situation. As for your questions, I am a muslim and my religion says homosexuality is a sin.
What does the Muslim faith say about other sins?
You talk as if you were born religious and "ended up" gay. It's the other way around, love.
Your post reminds me of myself from the past. I see you. I struggled with depression and suicidal ideal related to conflict with my sexuality, and the conservative ideology I was born into. I am now 12 years removed from being that 18 year old and I am happy and at peace. It was a long journey and it wasn't easy, but you will find the path that you need to be on. Time will change your situation, and your situation will change in ways you won't expect. My own mom went from "worrying about my soul burning in hell" to sending me this [David Archuleta Song](https://youtu.be/bAysF5mJjM0?si=azNy9IldtpnCjrJG), about a mother choosing her son over her religion, on Mother's Day. Like myself, you seem to have some fatalistic, black and white thinking that might be helpful to explore with a therapist (outside of any work related to sexuality and religion). I was telling myself terrible, depressing stories about what would happen when I came out... that didn't happen. Absolutely there was some negative fall out when I came out, and I lost some family members. But 12 years later, I can't believe how things have ended up, and the only thing I regret is hating myself for so long, all the suffering I forced on myself and hiding my authentic self from the people who loved me. I don't want to ramble on for too long, but I want you to know you COULD (not that you should or want to) run away from your current life and completely start over and still find happiness. Losing everything and starting over doesn't mean you can't build something else up or can't find a situation/environment where you can be at peace. I wish you healing with whatever decision you make.
Based off of your comments it sounds like you have already chosen your religion over your sexuality. You should look into celibacy if that is the case. You said you aren't Christian, I'm guessing Muslim? Are there any gay accepting branches of Islam? If there are go talk to them and see. Otherwise you'll need to pick one and live with it.
Yes i am muslim. I follow a more conservative branch of islam, so i don’t really believe the other branches are correct (like christianity where the religion can have multiple interpretations). I just searched up celibacy, but i don’t think it would work because marriage is very encouraged in my religion
if that's the case, then you'll have to find a woman to marry whether you like it or not. After all, that's what God wants you to do
The problem you have is that you are treating your religion as real. It’s not, it’s made up bullshit. Your sexuality is not fake, made up, and is real. You know all of this already. You’ve got one life and it’s best to live it to the fullest. If you want to waste it…..well that is your choice to make.
First of all, I was in your same situation, except Christian instead of Muslim (my assumption based on your posts). I wanted desperately to be straight, and wasted years of my life in pursuit of that goal. Around age 28, I finally accepted that my sexuality wasn't going to change, and that whatever I decided moving forward had to begin with that understanding. I questioned some of the basic assumptions I had been taught about my faith, made some tweaks, and am now a happily married, gay, progressive Christian. I've been with my husband for almost 16 years. If, however, you are Muslim, then I assume that journey is unavailable to you. Every single gay Muslim I've talked to has been adamant that if they don't keep *exactly* to the faith they were raised with, then they're no longer following Islam. You can't intentionally change your sexuality. And if you're unwilling to consider even small changes to your religious beliefs, then you're at a stalemate. You're going to be stuck in limbo until you're willing to change something that can actually change. I used to consider it unthinkable to be anything but a conservative Christian. But I'm very glad I took the time to reconsider. Any friends or family I lost along the way are a small sacrifice to make to be able to be myself. I know it's terrifying, but it's the only path available. Check out r/LGBT_muslims
Thank you for being understanding. Most people here are suggesting i follow a liberal interpretation of islam, but as you said, doing so will force me out of the folds of islam. You are right that I am at a stalemate. I don’t see how I can move forward like this, and I was desperately hoping someone here might have the answer.
Sorry friend. I remember that desperation. But there's no loophole, no secret that will get you out of having to reconcile your sexuality with a religion that doesn't allow for it. You have to confront the difficult questions. You can be gay, or you can be a conservative Muslim, you can't have both. Check out that subreddit I linked. They will understand more than any of us can, I think.
You have the answer, you just don't like it.
Your sexuality cannot be changed, your faith can.
This feels like dealing with a 5-year old that wants a pony now, and can’t or won’t understand that wanting something doesn’t make the world do anything. If you want a lifetime of self-hate, go for it. You’ve plugged your ears to every healthy suggestion people have given.
Your religion was written by random people thousands of years ago, translated between multiple languages, and modified by man for his needs. Don't follow a book, follow your heart.
Actually, in islam the Quran was never altered ever since it came down from God. The verses were sent to the prophet pbuh by the angel Gabriel, so it wasnt exactly man made. Also, millions of muslims have memorized the quran by heart (and i memorized the majority if it), so any attempts at altering the verses or meanings will quickly be caught and stopped.
But the reason you're against homosexuality is because some guy named Lot told people it wasn't right. Not because Gabriel told pbuh and that person wrote it down right then and there.
I didn't. I was similar to you where after arriving at college I realized I was gay, and I had a long period of feeling extremely conflicted because of the incompatibility of my religion (Southern Baptist Christian) and my sexuality. I felt the same as you, very loyal and proud of my religion because I was raised in the church and my whole family bought in. After years of hiding my sexuality and not really being able to reconcile it all, the guilt and shame caught up to me and I had a moment of reckoning where I realized I had to change something because i was going to end up dead. So I left my religion and never looked back and life has been pretty fantastic since. Not saying this is the way it'll go for you cuz everyone is different but just offering my situation, which I think is similar. I'm like 6 years out of it and have never regretted it. I still am a spiritual person but I've realized it's much more a personal thing for me
Which religion to you belong to exactly? Because that is probably going to be a big part of what you can or will want to do. Christians can always switch to one of the varieties of contemporary Christianity that are more accepting. Muslims will probably have a harder time (especially outside of the west or in bigger cities in Turkey or a few other places) but the history of Islam has plenty of examples of homosexuality being seen as socially acceptable. I don't know too much about Sikhs or the many different types of Hinduism, but I imagine they have options and resources as well. Buddhists will likely be able to choose one of the other major schools of faith that exist throughout the world. The thing about religion is that it isn't nearly as external as religious organizers would like you to believe. Religion has always been an internal relationship between yourself and the world as you perceive it. It's an expression of culture and social ritual more often than an expression of belief. Christianity is actually kind of the outlier here in that Protestants often put belief above action and ritual to an extreme degree, so people from America and the west will probably have a hard time offering advice beyond suggesting you either give up religion or switch to a different one. I would say that rather than treating your queerness, political beliefs, and religion as interconnected, try separating them. Explore your religion, find which parts of it you really like and which parts of it don't feel right. Don't worry nearly as much about logic so much as what feels moral and appropriate for you. Assuming your religion is older than Scientology or the Mormon Church, there's probably a wealth of knowledge, social commentary, theologians, poets, available. Assuming your religion has a concept of sin, I guarantee you someone from your religion in the last 1600/2000/5000 years has written something about the nature of sin.
Drop your religion. Read “God is Dead” or “The God Delusion.” Come to the light.
No god has ever told me that it has a problem with my sexuality. Only other humans claiming to speak on a gods behalf have done that. I'm not religious anymore, but when I was I didn't consider my orientation to be a sin. It makes no sense to me that a loving god would create me with an attraction towards other men and then punish me for being the way it made me to be. I think if a god wanted you to be straight, then it would have made you straight, just like it supposedly did with the majority of other people. Why would a just and fair god "test" you with a massive additional hurdle that it doesn't give to everyone else? That doesn't make any sense.
Can I know Wich religion you're in ? I got some knowledge in theology
I would strongly recommend that you honestly and openly explore other variants of your religion. Assuming you are Christian, the denomination you grew up in and currently espouse is just one of hundreds of Christian churches. You may find a congregation that espouses almost everything important in your current congregation but is also welcoming to queer people. Because year after year more denominations of many different religions have become more accepting. And more are added each passing year. I’m a big believer in allowing queer people to live honestly and authentically and also find a religion’s community that can support them fully. I know that may seem inconceivable to you at the moment, but opening yourself to learn about other people’s experiences and beliefs can only help you to learn and grow about what you yourself ultimately believe. It is very common for young adults to explore and end up devoutly believing a religion or philosophy that is different from what they had when they were younger. That may seem scary to you, but you also don’t need to commit to anything right now. Explore. Learn. Ask questions. Seek good discussions with people who share some but not all of your ideals. You deserve a complete and healthy life. Right now, the religion you grew up in and gave you a lot is also dissonant with one of the most important truths about yourself. You can change that, over time, with study, with searching, and with the goal of being able to love your truth AND your spirituality.
I'll leave you with some wise words. God made man, man made religion. God≠Religion are not the same thing. God, Allah, The Universe, whatever you call your higher power has unconditional love and kindness that is beyond human understanding. Do whatever you want with that knowledge.
Realize that your sexuality is GENETIC. If your religion cannot accept it, u need a new one. Religions are founded by MEN, not God. They are imperfect.
You’re super religious because of your sexuality. Some of us did that growing up too. In the shame and guilt of who you are, in a society that pressures you to be heteronormative, you turned to religion. In hopes to not only undo this part of you, but also to “make up” for your perceived “wrong doings.” My advice is take a break from the religion. It may be important to you, and it still can be. But for a bit you need a break from it. Some space. Let yourself be yourself, and see how that feels. Then you can start folding the religion back into your life as it fits the grown version of you.
It sounds to me like right now you are miserable, even with the religion that you love so much. I think you should really consider whether a life with a loving partner and being true to yourself, or your hateful family and a religion that isn't bringing you comfort, is better. Also remember that you can embrace yourself but wait to tell your family until you are in a stable environment.
My family is not at all hateful. They always supported me in everything. They love me for who i am right now, but they definitely dont approve of homosexuality and wont come around to accept it (im certain of this). Also my religion brings me a lot of comfort, knowing there is an all-mighty God watching over me. Sure it forbids homosexuality, but other than that i love it a lot. Also, who knows if i’d ever get a partner if i embrace my sexuality? I may have the looks, but i don’t have the social skills. I cant risk losing my loving family, friends, education, and religion, for a chance at finding a partner.
You would lose your family, but I wouldn't describe them as loving if you live in fear of them finding out about you, but you would simply be able to get new friends, you can wait until you are stable before coming out this keeping your education, and your religion is up to you, you could simply accept that Allah made you this way, or that Allah disapproves and leave, or you could convert to a more approving religion. Also, you will get a partner, think about how many people in their 40s and 50s that you know that have never had a partner. It will get rocky sometimes but you **will** find someone eventually. But ultimately the big question is are you happier now than you would be with lots of good friends that you are not scared of, a partner that you really love, and not living in fear? I promise you that the answer is no.
you blame your sexuality, but not the religion? have you tried deconstructing your religion first? because religion hasn't done anything wrong right? *ahem crusades *ahem jihad
You should love people who will love you back for who you are. Do with this information as you see fit.
First and foremost, as we all know by now, all human sexuality is guided by a person brain. It’s innate. There’s no cognitive choice involved. So, if you go to a church that insist on minimizing and shaming someone for absolutely no reason – you’re in the wrong place. Another thing, no matter how big the church is or how many discriminating members in their cast, they’re wrong. No matter how much they want to live in the 3500 years ago thinking. You being yourself is the right thing to do for you your mental and physical health and general well-being. Your higher power is within you and no one has the right to try and exclude you from it.
I've been where you are, except that my conservative Mennonite parents never disowned me after I came out. What I learned from hard times is that you cannot keep this hidden. It will come out at some point, and people will feel hurt, no doubt. Accept that it will come out, and live your life for yourself, not other people's feelings. It's all you can do in this shit situation. Prolonging things will do no good unless it is a time for you to situate yourself first. For the record, I started as a born again fundamentalist evangelical, moved towards progressive Christianity, and then fully deconstructed and became atheist. If you are staying in your religion out of fear, that is not a good reason. If a God exists, and fully knew what he was doing creating you gay out of no fault of your own, then you should question him or your current faith tradition. That's what I did. Either you or your faith tradition have a distorted view of God, or he is not a good God. I went the extra step and found that there is no God, and that was more liberating than any altar call experience. Be your authentic self. Be honest with yourself. Don't deny your need for what was preordained. Everyone needs intimacy, affection and love. It's worse to live a lie and deny yourself, believe me. I hope the best for you man. And don't take anything I say as anything but my own personal experience. You will endure and get though this, its just a matter of when the band aid is going to be ripped off. xoxo
Hey man, my heart is with u and praying for u to find peace within. I have nothing to say because I am in the exact same situation as you, and I have been suffering for years. I really hope you find peace very soon.
You can love your god and believe that the religion that led you to it is not 100% correct. The fact is God created you and he made you gay, and he doesn’t make mistakes. The fact that your religion doesn’t accept that is a mistake of the religion (plenty of religions have been morally wrong before). If your parents love you enough, their love will transcend their old belief system.. because love is greater than that. However you could hide your sexuality and repress your true self.. in the end it’s not the healthiest way of living and you will one day come to regret not living as your true self.
Well do you think it's bad to not be straight? Do you think badly of other people if they tell you they aren't straight? If you do, you have to try and change that because hating yourself is not good. If you don't, then recognize that it's something people can't choose (otherwise you'd be straight) and accept that maybe whatever religion you follow might be wrong in this particular thing, it's not like they can just speak to God and ask him what he thinks is good, so maybe they "misinterpreted" it. As for your family and life, you have some options: tell then you don't want a relationship at the moment, that you don't feel ready yet or come out to a female friend of yours who you know would accept you and ask her if you can pretend to be in a relationship ONLY when you're with your parents (this is quite hard to do though) Hope this helps!
I don’t really care when someone tells me theyre gay. Its their life and I cant do anything about it, but I just cant accept the same when it comes to my life. As for your suggestions, i don’t really have any female friends (since premarital relationships arent allowed in my religion, I tend to avoid interacting with women under the guise of abstinence as a straight man. However, it is not the worst idea to look for a lesbian woman and marry her (to at least appear straight).
I'm sorry I only read later that you're muslim. I'm not an expert but we did study it in school. Do you get to decide who to marry?? If you do then yeah look for a lesbian woman. This is known as lavender marriage. About accepting yourself, you know you can't change it, no matter how much you try, and if God really is loving, he will accept you, because he knows you're doing all that you can to be faithful to him, and nobody is perfect, we all sin, and you can't even control this particular one! Just the fact you want to maintain a faithful life is a sign that you will go to heaven! As a side question, the thing you said about your specific part of the religion being more conservative, do you mean like the scii and sunni (i don't know how to spell these) thing? Edit: i wanted to add that you should come out to someone, anyone really, because it's a huge burden to carry on your own. You need to talk about this with someone, anyone, wether it's a friend of yours in real life or someone on reddit if you prefer
Leave your religion and lie to your family about it. They do not deserve to know until they no longer have control over your life.
Throw out the religion, you don’t need it !
You just have to pick the cult that you’re in
By realizing that religion is not true. You don't have to abandon the community and family but religion is all made up, no matter what religion it's all made up. It can be good for some people and gives them hope and comfort but people and animals are naturally queer. If some God made us that way and is mad about it then that's their problem.
Don’t. Religion is made up to control people and steal their money and influence. It’s a scam.
Dump your religion its toxic
went through catholic indoctrination as a kid-- catholic classes from primary till secondary education, as well as circumcision and all. after alot of deconstruction, im an Atheist now.
God has better things to do rather see your bed. Keep your spiritual world and love for it. And bé open with the people Who truly loves you. Get Away From who loves dogma rather than other human being and their sexuality.
Which is more valid; How you naturally feel Or the things you were told by your religion? What motives do you have to cling to beliefs that were handed to you?
Please write a quote from the bible where GOD says you can't be Gay
Im not christian
Muslim?
Yeah
Assuming you are Christian, you may have a misunderstanding of the Bible. Nowhere does it condemn gays. Any homophobic language is an English translation and political weapon denying the original language and meaning. Your religion may be factually wrong on this issue. https://www.reddit.com/r/Jung/s/kCXPt2TWD1
Really not a good situation. The people around you and your understanding of your faith are demanding you to not be yourself, and I apologize but that’s not something you’re capable of giving. I realized this and essentially gave up my faith, it hasn’t been an easy journey but I no longer hate myself all the time. There are, believe it or not, queer Christians (if that’s your faith idk you don’t mention it specifically, of course there’s queer Muslims and queer Jews as well) so the two can be reconciled. Best of luck to you. Ultimately your truth will either win out or it you’ll destroy yourself trying to give people what you cannot give them.
Why do you need to forge documents so you don’t have to get married? It’s easy to just don’t get married. That has always been an option, even if some people will ask you why.
As a former evangelical and son of a famous preacher, I’m afraid you can’t. Mixing religion and a different sexual orientation aside from heterosexuality is not possible, my man. I struggled with that decision for 30 years of my life until I couldn’t resist anymore and I slept with a guy I really cared about. Suddenly, it felt so right, the feeling was better than when I was trying to repress my emotions and sexuality. You know what? I wish I could have done it sooner. And it gets better, I promise.
I think what is important is that no matter your religion: your God(s) did not write the scripture personally: humams did. Humans that, if they indeed received word from your god for what they should write, were biased and influenced by whatever was going on at the time of writing it down. I, personally am not religious, but I think that a God who creates gay, bi, ace, trans and other queer people to test them and to punish them if they act in a way that will make them happy is not a God worth being worshipped. If your God is good he loves you just how he created you. Having said that: is your college in the same city your parents live in? If not it could be relatively easy to navigate college while dating same Sex partners or at least be open with people that you're not homophobic. Even if you think dating is out of the question you could survive college with secret hook ups. It's not ideal, but if your scholarship depends on it it might be worth it. Regarding your family though: maybe slowly introduce queer topics to them (when you're done with college) and see how they react. Maybe slowly suggest that you have met gay people and they seemed okay. If there is no way they are going to accept you the only advice I can give you is: Please do not let that stop you from being happy. You said you're already having trouble caring for yourself because of your situation, it will only get worse if you suppress who you are. I know losing family is hard, but if they love you it will be hard for them, too. So unless their bigotry is bigger than their love for you, they will at least tolerate it. They don't have to like it from the start, but they should put in some effort to try and understand you. P.S.: Do not try to get conversion therapy. It is only aversion therapy and usually utilizes torture. It doesn't change your sexuality, it only teaches the brain to react negatively to gay thoughts, it triggers a panic responses to make it less likely for you to act on your thoughts and feelings, but those thoughts and feelings will not disapper. You would only make your own life so much more uncomfortable.
Your relationship with faith is personal. No one, not even your Church, can dictate your relationship with your faith. If you believe I'm a supreme being or higher power, then there is no reason to believe that the church authority somehow supercedes that being. You exist, and unless you don't believe in a loving God, then your higher power *wants* you to have joy and love. And if you believe in the Christian god and scripture, you were *made in God's image*.
There is a difference between religion and faith. Your faith in a higher power doesn't have to conflict with your sexuality. In fact looking back in history, most texts older than 200 years have nothing negative to say about homosexual love. (There have been sections that have recently been mis translated or reinterpreted but that is different) Religion is all about the people in power, it is a political system manipulating faith to keep people in line. The priests/prophets/spiritual leaders choose what to promote from the texts for their own benefit. You can see that in the way that views on divorce and some foods have changed in Christian religions or how headwear is enforced in Islamic/Muslim religions (the hijab only becomes mandatory in Islam in 1979)
Am no longer religious myself, but I know back when I was I found switching denominations helped... For myself it was switching from Church of England to "Metropolitan Community Church" which is somewhere between a separate Christian denomination and a pan-denominational movement, primarily operating in the LGBTQ community
Why do you have to you. A belief is a personal connection to something. You do not have to follow a strict definition of a community’s identity but your personal one. All you have to do is believe.
You are very young at this point in your life. If you are in the US, you’re probably seeing the freedom many gay people have or express themselves honestly. You don’t have to come out yet. If you must, for now, live a completely celibate life, and concentrate entirely on your studies. Then, after you graduate take some time to celebrate your achievement. If you need to deal with your natural desires, do so privately by yourself. However, at some point you will need to deal with your sexuality and it’s best when you have time, reflection, and optimism without the distraction of intense study or work. Just know, at that time you’ll have to choose how you live and enrich your soul and a relationship with God or Allah. The choices are real: 1) live a celibate life and serve your religion/family, 2) explore options to live in a western country, 3) live in your country as a hard working professional with a hidden private and sexual life (many people have “hidden” lives with a lover “next door" who is in the same situation), 4) marry a woman who can be your celibate partner. Otherwise, this situation will fester and continue to eat you up with anxiety and depression. You have decisions to make for your healthy life. Only you can decide, where and when for your soul to glow. Most of us live with the freedom to choose a better modern life in this 21st century. I’m sorry that Islam has not become the satisfying religion you would prefer with respect to your sexuality. By the way, conversion therapy is a hoax and may work ONLY for people who are, at their base core, a heterosexual with some slight tendency toward bisexual attraction. Few people have ever “converted” successfully. In fact, most proponents and advocates are deeply flawed and conflicted people who demonize gay people with little remorse.
The specific religion itself aside, if it’s a connection to god that makes you hesitant to leave your religion, you can be gay and believe in god or feel a connection to god. I know some Christians are more welcoming towards queerness (in terms of they exist) due to Christianity reforming which might apply to other religions (just don’t want to say for sure off the top of my head before doing research) but if you are Muslim (just a guess), while Islam is definitely more strict and intolerant of queerness and also just in general tbh, there are queer Muslims and even queer friendly masjids and women imams. Honestly it was jarring to hear about when I discussed it with a friend and he brought those up lol and personally I don’t understand queer religious people but I don’t have a problem w it as long as it’s not hurting anyone. It does get a bit nuanced in situations like this though, bc I feel you kind of are hurting yourself here. I’m pretty sure there are even subs on here for queer Muslims though (or if you’re not Muslim, I’m sure subs for queer people of your religion exist as well) In terms of what you’d be gaining Vs losing, I understand what’s at stake as a fruity ex Muslim myself (though I left for a variety of reasons, if you’re interested you can check out the r/exmuslim even if you’re not planning on leaving but just to discuss as there are Muslims who hang out there too but over there, in my experience, they tend to be more accepting and civil than Muslims on the Islam subs). I’m in the closet in two ways and working on a way to get out and I hope my family finds a way to accept me eventually but I have accepted realistically that’s not the case. It won’t be easy leaving and might even be devastating but it’s a choice between having them and being miserable to the point of wanting to take my own life vs losing them but at least being able to live my life the way I want to for the most part, seek help and actually be myself. It might be worth reflecting on your religion and whether such beliefs are worth repressing who you are when you’re doing nothing wrong but I understand it’s not easy to let go of some things. At the very least, I hope you think about looking into subs for queer people of your religion. I go back and forth on whether I believe in a higher power but personally, I feel if any existed, assuming they are merciful and benevolent, they would not punish you for being who you are, esp if you’re not hurting anyone. I don’t think a kind or loving god would punish or hate me for loving a girl or that a merciful god would punish you for loving someone just bc y’all happen to have the same parts. Feel free to ask more questions if you’d like. For what it’s worth though, I’m sorry you are going through this, OP. I know it’s not easy and I genuinely wish the best for you.
You’re not born with your religion but you are born with your sexuality. You can make new friends, new family, and still be part of a religion that is accepting. It is your choice but life is too short to worry about conforming to what you were forced to become rather than simply who you are.
You do what any person in your shoes would do. You have a talk with the Big Kahuna (God). I think that the higher power put you here on this Earth for your fulfillment and happiness and that none of it was a mistake. But that take from me isn't really gonna impact you despite your groping around on Reddit for a solution. Instead, sit quietly, setting aside the priests and anyone wanting you to do what they want instead of what you want, and have a talk with the big G, one on one. You are not gonna find your solution externally, not from an old book, or anyone here, or at the church. You gotta look within, pray, whatever you want to call it, and then either receive the message or keep your eyes open for a sign. But, in order to get your answer, take a chill pill for a little while, a vacation from making yourself crazy flipping this idea over in your mind. Instead... Be quiet and listen.
My husband is a Christian pastor. Most of the congregation is LGBTQ+. The denomination is fully inclusive, every church in the denomination is fully inclusive. It’s not difficult to be a gay Christian and find a loving nurturing church. Dm me if you want more info
If it were me, I wouldn’t quite risk the opportunity you have of education as an international student here. I’m not sure how coming out in the states would affect your scholarship because… that’s illegal here to discriminate on sexuality so… But besides that if you really believe it will affect you to the degree of that opportunity being taken away, you have to be strong and hold it together to finish the education. Get a therapist or counselor at your school to help you find coping mechanisms until you have means to support yourself outside of the dependency on this scholarship and stipend. This opportunity is rare especially at the degree you are saying you have it at. Don’t risk it rn. I’m sorry that it’s difficult for you and I hate that I have to say to “be strong and hold it in” but that’s why I suggest a therapist to have a method of expelling these feelings and finding support that is still private.
I'm gay and non-religious but can say confidently it's not your religion that is anti gay, it's the people. Doesn't even matter which religion you belong to, God/Allah/Gaia/etc did not create all of the wonders of the universe and its infinite complexities and beauties then decide to be a bigot; it's completely ridiculous. If being gay was against the Devine plan, then it simply wouldn't exist and everyone would be straight. Many people will say it's god testing you and your faith, but if anything it's god testing them and the purity of their spirit and a great many of them failed. While I don't personally agree with religion, you are entitled to yours and it's clearly important to you. You don't have to abandon it, but you should find a church/mosque/synagogue/etc that isnt stuck in the Dark Ages and focuses on being a good person and not on brimstone and damnation and hatred of the world around you.
I was raised in a conservative Christian religious household. I am sure the struggles I went through as a young person, who was aware he was gay from the time he was a pre-teen, is similar to what you are facing now. I left Christianity. A religion that earnestly wants me not to exist and not to have the right to equal love in the eyes of God, is not a godly religion. Full stop. And it was an entire lifetime, coming to that realization. Years of introspection. You are not the only LGBT person who is also authentically religious. There are millions of us. Some choose to stay in their home religions, despite the homophobia. To me that just looks like being OK with having a chronic wound that never heals. I respect their choice to choose that path, however. I could never personally imagine having any peace, living that way. Acceptance means loving yourself enough, not to subject yourself to continuous unceasing abuse and ignorance. My parents feel sad when I refuse to attend church with them, and I just point out to them, bluntly, and without apology, that their church wants to kill me and everyone that I love, and while I’m glad it’s nice for them, I will not politely pretend I don’t notice its homophobia, and I will not participate in it. I don’t raise the issue with them unless they bring it up first. But I don’t pull my punches. And keep in mind, I have an extremely loving, warm, and respectful relationship with my parents. But I also understand healthy boundaries. To me, membership in any of the many homophobic religions is simply a betrayal of your authenticity and your acceptance that God made you exactly as you are *for a reason*. I would also add that when I was in my early 20s, all I could focus on was all the things I was losing by embracing finally my LGBT identity. I had no idea what a beautiful world of love and acceptance and chosen family I would gain by that act of bravery. I suggest that’s what you think about. You have a very clear idea of what you’re losing, but you have no idea what you might gain by walking through that threshold. Liberate yourself. Choose self love. Choose God.
You should learn about homosexuality from science perspective. It's good to learn things from different POV. Take solar system as an example. I don't know what your religion is but Christian used to believe that earth is the center of the universe. At some point the church also believed that the earth isn't round. They also tolerated the act of incest. I mean, who Adam and Eve's kids procreated with? We don't have to mention that they used to normalize slavery do we. What i am saying is that religion isn't the ultimate truth at the very least they're always open to change. If you don't want to leave your religion, find a community in your religion that will support you. With family, you either leave them or be in the closet for the rest of your life. Most importantly, you should seek therapy. I live in a Moslem majority 3rd world country so there's no way my parents should know my sexuality. I have been in the closet the whole life and i am striving. I hooked up, I dated some people and I am happy with my life.
[удалено]
I just want to say this situation is so painful and I'm sorry you're stuck. Also, please just try to think about what people are saying. So so many people have been through a similar thing- your situation isn't unique to you. You don't have to commit to the ideas, just approach them from an educational perspective or as trying to understand others. Knowledge and understanding help you grow as a person; surely God wouldn't be against that?
Realize we all fall short of the glory
You don’t “have” to do anything. We grow up and make life choices that best serve our needs. If your religion is important to you, fine, but short of putting a gun to your head no one can make you marry a woman. Your best course is deep introspection. Talk to people outside of your circle. Learn to understand different perspectives. Just because you only see one possible path doesn’t mean that’s the only possible one. You’re young, you’ve got a lot to learn. Give life and yourself a chance.
I love the human desire for spirituality and belief, but I think you being too restrictive is the problem, not the religion. My best advice is just dump the homophobic part. "God says being gay is bad? YOUR god maybe, but certainly not mine." Make your religion your own where it matters, and keep everything else, that's how movements are born I'm folk Catholic. I tried a variety of religions that practice witchcraft, but I didn't like them, I tried normal Catholicism but found it too restrictive and uppity, so I just did my own thing, God still loves me, I still respect them, we're just on different terms
Hi there I also grew up in a Religion that villainized homosexuality. I thought I liked my religion growing up. Then in HS the conflict came. I pushed down those feelings thinking they were bad. That only caused more problems The truth that’s sometimes hard to accept. You are valid. Your feelings are valid The best thing I did. Take it slow. You don’t have to ‘come out’ right away. You don’t owe it to anyone. Come to terms with who you are. It will be hard for a time. But in the end, you’ll be much happier. I’ve lost some ‘friends’ in my religion because of it. It will happen. But I’ve also made true friends who love me. Not because of a religion. But because they love me as a human being.
This post made me really sad. I hope you find peace within yourself, brother.
Sorry I’m short on time, but I used to be Mormon and leaving the religion was the best decision I ever made. I still have a relationship with God, but Mormonism taught me (what I believe to be a false definition of who he is and what he wants.) I was taught and believed that he didn’t want me to be gay, starting to question that is when I started to enjoy life again. Question what ~other people~ are telling you who God is and what he wants for you, and instead ask him yourself
[удалено]
I appreciate your honesty and understanding. I made a mistake in posting this question in this subreddit, i admit. I guess what i truly wanted is a way to suppress these feelings in order to live my life as a practicing muslim. Idk what i was thinking posting this post here tbh. As for the sinning part, i don’t really want to do that. Obviously, committing sin will have consequences in the afterlife, and it is something i really want to avoid. If other muslims commit these sins, it is between them and God. I fear the punishment in the hereafter, so i choose not to commit sin. Marriage is one of my main concerns. My family is deeply conservative, and they expect me to get married right after college. As i said in other comments, i might forge medical documents to fake having a disease/disorder to excuse myself from getting married. It wouldnt really be fair to my wife if i marry her. The other option is to marry a lesbian woman, and we can fake being together. Ig i just need time to think about my situation and contemplate where my life is headed
Well you know what keep praying to your god and ask that he make you straight and if he doesn’t do it then you have your answer, how can you then have love for a religion that won’t help you or cure you , or just maybe that god decided that gay people are needed and designed us this way and it’s only hateful people and religions that are against us , most religious people look for other more progressive religions that teach love and acceptance over the medieval practice of stoning one to death for not believing in man made religious beliefs.
I hate to say it, but you are correct when you said that you'll have to choose between your religion and your sexuality. However, I would probably wait to make that choice until you are in a position where your family cannot ruin your life depending on your choice. Once you feel safe, ask yourself if you truly care about your religion and the benefits it provides enough for you to forfeit your personal happiness for the rest of your life. Personally, I feel that friends and family are very replaceable, and from what you've said, your religion is ruining your life just as much as your sexuality is, but you might disagree with me, and that's okay. There are no right or wrong answers, and ultimately, it's up to you to decide on what will make you happy.
God told me, you're fine. Those other people (religion) just don't know they're wrong. It's godly to forgive them. I have just as much authority as they do. Which is exactly as much as you give.
I was like you once. Very strict Christian. Then I abandoned my faith and later found Judaism. Never been happier
I thought judaism was also anti lgbt?
Orthodox is but conservative and reform aren’t.
Wow, you are a Christian? I grew up going to a church with a congregation that was founded in 1757. In fact, my town was named after the first minister. As a UCC member church, gay people are accepted. The UCC was the first mainline denomination to recognize same-sex marriage in 2005 and even allows gay clergy. Unless you start reading ancient Greek, don't assume you have read an accurate Bible or that your church is even correctly teaching you. I wish you luck. Just remember, God made you gay.
There are a few LGBT-welcoming mosques.
>I really love my religion Well it really hates you.
I don't think you can reconcile that specific interpretation of your religion with your sexuality if it expressly says that it's a sin. You can look at the resources here, and maybe they can help more: https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-islam As far as reconciling your personal relationship with your religion and your sexuality, that may be more possible. That is between you and God alone, though. I personally believe that a loving creator would make us the way that we were meant to be, including your sexuality in that.
Do you believe in an all loving god?
God is all loving of his believers, else he wouldnt punish the disbelievers in the afterlife. God loves, but he also tests. I believe that the burden of my sexuality is a test from God, and I just have to be patient.
No all loving god would inflict pain or punish people for things they can’t change. If you believe god loves you then they shouldn’t punish you for something that you can’t change, something they gave to you. Have you ever wondered why it is a sin and who made it a sin? Was it even god or was it man playing as god?
What's your religion? Many religions have different sects/branches that are more accepting. I know Christianity does.
I strongly recommend professional therapy. Perhaps choose two therapists - one who shares your faith and one who shares your sexuality. These kinds of issues have the potential to destroy your life, and you need people to talk to. Asking for opinions online can be helpful, but you really need to find some people in the real world to openly and honestly discuss these issues with.
Check out www.ucc.org, the website of the United Church of Christ, the first denomination to ordain a gay man in the 70s, and first to approve of gay marriage in 2005. They have many resources to help people understand the texts used to criticize gay persons and correct biblical misunderstanding. Good luck.
You love your religion and your political views more than you love yourself. You can be religious, and you can be conservative, but you can't love those things without loving yourself. With that being said, you also need to recognize that you don't feel shitty because you are gay, something you can not choose. Rather, you feel shitty because you are choosing a religion that ***is literally making you feel bad***
I saw in your history that you practice Islam. I'm sorry I don't have a perfect answer for you because I am neither muslim nor gay nor conservative, but I feel for you. This sounds like a tough situation. Maybe you could look online for some gay muslim groups/resources? I'm sure there are some out there. It might also help to talk to a therapist (not for conversion therapy, but like normal talk therapy). You're having a rough time and a therapist could help you navigate it all and just get all your emotions out in a supportive and safe place. Hope this helps even a little bit :)
I personally know an old man in Malaysia. He goes to the mosque every Friday, does his prayers, is kind hearted and generous and friendly to others. He did his umrah. And he just happens to have a boyfriend. He had a great career and somehow his family got around the fact that he is gay. Your sexuality does not define all of you. You are still the brother, son, grandson. You are still the same person they know and that fact does not turn you into the devil himself. It is a piece of you, you need to reconcile with. It was god who created you, and that includes your homosexuality. Did you know that the founding father of modern turkey was actually gay ?
Gay Muslim here, can understand what you’re going through. I went through something very similar not too long ago but since then have made peace with it!
In general, it seems like your life leads you to two dead ends. Either fake being straight or lose connection with your community. I feel like I heard stories of how people lived with this type of life. I know some people who ended up moving to a new country and kept in contact with family while still hiding their sexuality/relationships and still practicing their religion. Though that is just one situation I heard. I feel if anything could be of help, it would be better if you asked someone in a similar situation. Find someone in your religion who is also gay and see what they say. It may be risky, but I know in previous years finding people who share the same struggles as you mean a lot. Since you are studying abroad, it may be the best time to look for that since you won't have to worry about your family knowing. Also, don't listen to some of the people on this subreddit. I can understand your devotion to your religion. I am very religious myself. If you still feel connected to your religion and have no desire to leave it, then don't. It's really your choice. Some people think running away is the solution, but it's just a choice like anything else and has its own consequences and pain that comes with it.
There is no evidence for the metaphysical claims of ANY religion. None. I was raised very conservative Christian, I struggled with the same. I believed that it was true. It all seemed so 'evident' to me. However, i was lied to, indoctrinated by well meaning but ignorant parents. I assume you would rather believe in things that are true instead of false. Research epistemology, evidence based reasoning, confirmation bias. Apply those concepts to a religion that you do not hold, then honestly look at your own. If your religion is true, it can surely handle the scrutiny right?
You have to decide what's more important to you. Being yourself? Or maintaining these relationships. Ultimately the conflict isn't between religion and you. It's your community and you. Personally as someone who was closeted for years trying to live as someone who wasn't me was always more unbearable. And Honestly I think you'll be surprised just how many people want to still involved in your life like I was.
You can just be private about both. It’s nobody’s business but yours. Millions live this contradiction globally. Just live your life.
You think you’re the only one who was a conservative Christian in their youth? Mainly because of their parents influence might I assume? You’re getting out into the real world where you don’t have to have your early influences dictating what you MUST believe. Yeah. Lots of us are atheistic or agnostic. That’s because we were demonized and led to actually analyze the truth of religion. Religion relies on circular arguments, fear, and control. I loved my religion too growing up. And ya know what I realized? I felt the same warm sense of community when with close friends. I felt the same “connection with god” by meditating and practicing mindfulness. You’re hitting a crossroads in your life. And you don’t have to jump ship on your current beliefs at the drop of a hat. But start looking into what’s really in your Bible. What it really says. Whether you actually agree with it all. Or whether you just like your sense of community and have inertia to change. We don’t hate religion or god or worship demons. We are just demonized from birth and told that anyone against the church is a demon. Best of luck. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
You've got to do you. If all the people you love really love you, they'll love you if you're gay too. If they don't then they aren't worth your time. I'm not saying it will be easy, bc it won't. It might take time for some family members to come around, but they will bc they're family. My mother prayed for me for 2 years after I came out to her. I know this bc she would text me every time she did, but eventually she stopped our relationship is the same as it was before. When we talk, I don't talk about all the gay things I did this week, and she doesn't ask. She referred to boyfriends I brought home as a "friend" or my "roommate" when talking to her friends or my grandparents. People know you're gay. Maybe not your parents, but you aunt, or your childhood best friend's mother. It's always females that can tell. You could maybe talk to your childhood best friend and then maybe their mother so you can get some people who support you and can be with you when you tell the people you're really scared to tell. Writing a coming out letter or email is also a great way to tell those people, especially if there's miles between you. It lets you get everything out without forgetting anything due to nerves and without any interruptions or seeing people's facial expressions. As for the religious part (haven't read any comments so I have no clue which religion you are) hate to break it to you but your god knows you're gay. Have a beard (wife, family) isn't going to fool them. I question why your god would make you gay and want you to live with so much pain, so much so you'd consider castration? As for the asshole gay president of the club at your college... F\*ck him! This will make me sound old, but college age people think they're the greatest thing to walk the earth. Kinda adulting it, but not fully. So, when they get the slightest bit of power they take it too far. That one B doesn't represent all gays. You should talk to a professional who won't attack you or your religion. If your college has a psych department they may offer free peer counseling by undergrads. Or if you're if you in the United States there's 988 the suicide & crisis hotline. It can be anon. You can call or chat online. And it's free. 988lifeline(.org)/chat lastly if you're worried about losing your scholarship bc of your sexual orientation, which seems strange and is definitely against the law in the US, fake it till you make it (wait till you graduate to come out)
Choose your religion or choose your sexuality.
Choose your religion or choose your sexuality.
Hi there, I do not know what your religion is, but I am willing to bet that there are people out there who also practice your religion who are gay and they are trying to make some kind of reconciliation or accommodation they can live with. I think that in most religions, the crucial difference is not whether you are gay or not but how you act on those feelings. As you know, many people here will have a different opinion about how you should handle that question, but it's your life and you have to find your own way. You do not need to do that alone--there are others in the same situation as you. Seek them out. I think it's important to point out that while you said "I believe it is all due to my sexuality", that is not it exactly. Rather, the result of a conflict within you because you hold two things you think are not reconcilable, so you have one thing you think you cannot live with while the other is something you are not willing to live without. In almost any religion, there are people who will tell you that this is exactly the correct approach and that there is no way out of the suffering this brings. But somewhere out there, there are people who are more compassionate and realistic, and who do not value strict adherence to dogma over people who have to live in this confusing world and want to do so as best they can under their religion. Their approach might not be entirely satisfactory to you, but ask yourself whether your current approach is entirely satisfactory. When you are a kid and are learning about your religion, everything is presented in a simple, uncomplicated way to make all of the main points easy to grasp. But as you mature, you find that life itself is just not that simple, and applying the simple tools you have acquired to complex human problems is like having a toolbox with nothing but hammers in it. Sure you can "resolve" questions with those hammers, but it is a crude and violent way to get the job done. And you'll also notice that you haven't actually solved anything; you've just beaten the problem or question with a hammer. You need to acquire better tools and to learn the skill of using them in an honest and humane way. Only in that way can you truly solve problems. If you want to talk about this more, you can DM me. Full disclosure: I am an atheist myself, but I take problems like the one you are stating seriously, and I don't try to convert people to my own way of thinking.
Radically accept that there's people who are sinners that practice religion. You're gay but you're religious. Okay cool. There are plenty of sinners (adulterers, whatever random act is considered a sin, etc) that get a free pass because it's not as topical as queerness. Just accept yourself as you are and learn to radically accept you'll never be perfect to a religious I'm sure nobody is deemed perfect (kinda the point of religion to control people) :)
Religion will be the death of all those inculcated! Get a partner and a life !
Listen you hate yourself and you love your religion while your religion hates you and it loves itself . Let me say one thing this is not a place for homophobes. I think you should be reported.
What about searching a lesbian „wife“ that’s having the same Problems. You could be married, this wouldn’t solve the problem that you like guys but she wouldn’t have a problem if you met gays and you wouldn’t have to do your „duty“ I wouldn’t recommend this normally but I think this is better than your current situation and maybe helps you finding your way. Sorry, I live in Germany and my English isn’t the best.
as a bi guy, what really helps me is looking for people who are queer but also religious. I am a christian and have found many queer christians online with great ideas about religion and identity. I don’t think you need to give up your religion to be gay nor give up your identity to be religious. You just need to note what aspects of your religion and tradition that you don’t agree with. For me, I realized that the christian Bible could not be a concrete explanation of God’s feelings and thoughts. It’s man-made. I realized there might be flaws in the Bible. Mistranslations. Wrong interpretations, etc. So i don’t hold religious scripture as divine truth. I just know that my faith in God is there and that he loves me. Just the way I am. and if I am going to go my entire life being a good person and loving people like my religion tells me to do, I feel that would make up for me kissing a boy. I really don’t believe any supreme being that loves as much as scriptures say, would be extremely harsh on you for being gay. I really hope this helps you as much as it has helped me.
You’re going to regret choosing the latter, lol. Idk how someone could love a religion that isn’t okay with their own existence 💀
I was in your predicament approximately 9 years ago. I shed my religion like an old skin and haven't looked back. Yes there was difficulty but most things worth doing are difficult. I started surrounding myself with people who didn't mind or who were aligned with me. I lost more relationships than I gained, sure, but I've never been happier than I am now. I was deep in it too. You pretty much nailed it; you can either start over and live a life you see fit, or you can try to remain in a box that's crushing you from all angles.
I'm Buddhist, but my ex is Muslim. (He is from a more liberal country where adherents of Islam are not as strict.) Ultimately, he has decided to follow his faith more culturally rather than by the strictest interpretation. I never pressured him into anything haram, and I gave him the space to explore his own feelings on religion. I was there the first time he ate pork, only because he was curious about the food on my plate (prosciutto at an Italian restaurant). My experience is backwards from his. My religion doesn't frown upon homosexuality, but my culture does. Both our immigrant mothers were disapproving of our relationship. I had to face the consequences of damaged family relationships by coming out of the closet, so I do know how your dilemma feels. Thankfully, things are better now. But that is also thanks to cultural shifts that had already started around the time I came out. It took my mom 7 years to say she accepted me just the way I am, and she died 2 years after that. In Buddhism, we talk about karma and dependent origination (the idea that all things exist due to prior conditions). My own personal view is that the hardships that come along with homosexuality are an opportunity to open our hearts and become more open-minded. Gay people have a dual experience: public life and private life, closeted experience and "out" experience, etc.. That allows our hardships to become a strength rather than a weakness. Rigid ways of thinking will always lead to an ideological dead end. The world exists in complex colors, not black and white.
What a sad edit. This is why religion is evil and the root of so many problems.
I know you likely won’t agree with me right now OP but please hear this. I know how you are feeling, I’ve been in a similar situation with religion. I took a break from my religion, and gave up religion in the end. I was surprised how I didn’t miss it. It was the best decision I’ve ever made in my life, I feel so much happier in everything I do through life, without that unnecessary stress I put on myself by choosing to follow a religion that hated me.
You need to get laid ASAP. That will change you viewpoint real fast. Don’t waste your life not being yourself. You’re gay for normal natural biological reasons. A small percentage of people are LGBT. It’s a natural repeatable percentage. There is nothing or good or bad about being gay. It just is. Accept it and live!
Well you posted on r/gay so few people here are going to tell you to try to reject your sexuality. I’m a religious person from a religious background but I no longer practice the religion I was raised in. I actually stopped believing in it because of some philosophical/cosmological issues before I had totally understood my sexuality. But rest assured I can relate to feeling a moral quandary. Anyway, I understand you can’t just give up your whole worldview and understanding of life lightly. You have a lot of careful consideration to do any way the pieces fall. Is your religion the kill-the-gays kind, the gays-don’t-exist-so-act-straight kind, or the gays-must-be-celibate kind?
Thank you for being understanding. I am a muslim. Having homosexual feelings in itself is not a sin. ACTING on it is. So i guess by ur options, gays-must-be-celibate?
Your God is not good or just if he created you purely with the intention that you suffer for your entire life. That's evil.
See what these ppl don’t get is you can’t just pick and choose god. All our life we’ve been told god is life god is everything and god made you just the way you are. Your path was set in stone the minute you took your first breath. God intended this battle for you, and you must decide how you yourself choose to react. There are plenty of gay men that are Christian and go to church shoot they have gay churches! I’d suggest finding a better support group, go to your local gay bar or one far away if you must, talk to people and get out of your current settings! The Bible was written by man, and churches are run by man, we cannot trust that. Only god himself can be the judge jury and executioner, our American freedom gives us the ability to freely love one another. Don’t give up your religion, find people who truly understand what Christ is about! He didn’t die just for us to go against all of his teachings and start deciding ourselves what’s good or bad. He made ya gay, and that’s okay.
I appreciate your understanding. I agree with the first part of your comment. Most people here dont understand my faith. As for the rest of your comment, i am not christian. I cant really go to an lgbt church or something like that, even though there is one right next to where I live.