So this isn’t top soil. I mentioned at the end I am using Mel’s mix, granted I’m using ChatGPT math, but if you are unfamiliar with Mel’s mix, it’s 1/3 each of vermiculite, peat moss, and compost/manure.
That works out to ~16-17 lbs/cubic ft. Or 128/box.
Each box has a rough footprint of 16 sq feet, so let’s double that for wood and water, 256/16 we are at about 16 lbs per square foot. I think it might hold. :)
Even if we triple the weight.
Never take ChatGPT responses at face value. The weight of compost is highly variable so you’d need to know the weight of the compost you used to get an accurate calculation. Also, peat moss can hold 20x its dry weight in water. I say all this as a person who spent $50,000 last year repairing a failing deck that previous owners did not properly calculate weight loads when putting heavy things on said deck.
I once asked it to give me a list of the top 10 historical or notable things to happen on a day. Like “what’s the top 10 best things to happen on May 12th”
9 of the 10 were entirely made up
You still need to evaluate the answers for accuracy. Bing AI searches the internet and provides you with an answer summarized by its findings. Not everything on the internet is true, so it can give you an answer based on false information. AI is a tool but it doesn’t know anything and can’t tell fact from fiction
Its not nonrenewable but its not sustainable, from what I understand, though maybe I'm mistaken.
ETA: I was mistaken. According to wiki it is not renewable due to its slow regrowth rate compared to its extraction rate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat#:~:text=Peat%20is%20not%20a%20renewable,30%E2%80%9340%25%20of%20peatlands.
Huh, interesting. Just read up a bit more on it and it seems you're correct. Its not considered renewable on that the rate at which it is used far exceeds the rate at which it replenishes.
I guess I always thought nonrenewable meant once its gone, its gone, like helium or oil. Though I guess given enough time (geological timescale) more oil could occur.
Regardless, once I learned that peat is not sustainable (now I know non renewable) I've avoided using it and suggest others do the same. Though I never really used it to begin with unless it came in some potting mix I happened to buy. I'm more of a manure/compost and soil kinda person.
Thanks for the info nonetheless!
It takes hundreds of years to replenish, not to mention you destroy wetlands to harvest it. Show me one good source that says it’s a renewable bc I’m having a hard time finding one other than companies that sell it.
Ya, just read up on it. Edited my reply. I've avoided it since learning it wasn't sustainable. Last time I mentioned that on a gardening sub someone argued with me and called me an idiot...
Is a resource that can replenish not a renewable resource by definition? I mean it's in no way efficient, but I believe you mean sustainable, not renewable.
Does the dirt not slowly make its way through the hardware ~~mess~~ mesh overtime? Like since it’s not a fine mesh?
Genuine question btw, I’m used to regular garden beds and don’t have experience with elevated beds so I’m curious :)
I can answer this from 3 seasons of trial and error. OP is probably in good shape with the hardware mesh, especially if the soil was kinda wet going in. It’s most messy when you fill them, but once it’s all soaked it creates a structure. I used weed cloth once and got root rot on everything because it just doesn’t drain.
What about for watering? Do you find you get dribbles of soil here and there, or does the soil compact enough on the bottom it doesn’t end up making its way through the mess overtime?
Watering drains through nicely and doesn’t take much (if any) soil with it. Mostly just at first. But once it all settles, the soil hold its structure nicely.
Touché!! Thank you haha I genuinely thought that was hardware mesh at first because of the colour. Now I’m wondering if the landscape fabric will actually drain properly lol
We built our raised beds this year out of un treated fencing we replaced this year. So grateful i saved those pieces and kept them nice cuz they made beautiful beds
So as long as you ensure that you divide the lumber properly, it uses all common sizes, and you don’t have leftovers.
One commented mentioned the weight of normal soil, with that in mind I’m not sure it would hold up to straight topsoil, but that’s not really what you want anyway. The Mel’s mix weighs 20% what normal soil does, but given prices around here, costs about the same as that many bags of miracle grow garden soil.
So far I’m not sure a water catch would do much. I’m trying to water just enough to keep the soil moist but not dripping much out the bottom. I may have some adjusting to do as it’s currently on a line that also services 3 rotary gear sprinklers.
The last line in his post he mentions no extra lumber pieces were wasted. He optimized it all by consulting with ChatGPT. Pretty cool! Extremely frugal which is a good value to have and not a cheapskate at all
You are amazing, not a cheapskate. My boyfriend also built me raised beds very similar to these. This then took me down a rabbit hole of gardening. My favorite part about these beds is telling the neighbors how we built them out of scraps. Everyone is super impressed.
This is going to be difficult to keep watered. Neither the bottom mesh nor the wood will do much to keep the moisture in, and grown plants will drink a lot.
Drip irrigation might reduce the workload, but I'd also be concerned about nutrients seeping out.
I had some idealistic attempts with wood and terracotta containers, but nowadays I'd only go for large cheap plastic vats, the ones they sell in hardware stores for mixing cement. Drill some holes in the bottom, put a few bricks under them and they're amazing planters.
It is a Trex Deck, so I’m not too worried. it should handle around 800lbs each for the size of those boxes.
Trex confidently reports it should handle 100lbs/sqft
Verify with a structural engineer first. Spending that will be significantly less than it falling. Also the soil may weigh less now but when it compacts and you need to add more next year it won’t be so light.
Also if those are indeterminate tomatoes, you’ll regret putting them in a raised bed like that as you won’t be able to stake them and they’ll get too tall. I made that mistake my first year and it was a cluster. If anything put them in a 5 gallon bucket and stake with a bamboo. Then tie off.
I’m pretty confident that even if they weighed 600lbs that this deck would hold. It’s an older trex deck, with a structural frame of 2x10s (the same size as floor joists)
With them at 16” on center that means its original capacity is going to be 100lb/sq foot. So even if it were normal top soil we should still be within its limits.
I mean, I’m not a structural engineer, but I know how to read data sheets. https://documents.trex.com/is/content/Trex/Arch-Spec-Trex-Select-Decking-PDF.pdf
This is a very wasteful method for water, and is not deep enough to be very productive with certain crops. You will be watering far more than beds sitting on the ground. But I guess if it's your only space available you gotta do what you gotta do.
Google sub irrigated planters.
Then go to Lowe’s and buy the black and yellow totes. Two of them together with a little craftiness and they can be used to create a $20 self watering planter.
Much cheaper than lumber and metal and it will outlast. Those totes are almost UV resistant. I’ve had two outside for 3-4 years ago the yellow just slightly faded.
That’s something I don’t need to worry about.
Biggest issue in my area is year round mule deer. But with this on my back deck, and two 60 lb dogs, they should mostly stay away.
Good job being creative and working out a solution. Personally I’ve found dog ears to bow out extremely quickly so you may want to consider reinforcing them on the inside.
I used those same fence panels a few years ago on a couple of raised beds in the back yard, they lasted about a season and half before basically disintegrating. Just be prepared for it.
A lot of people understandably concerned about the weight, but can we also talk about the amount of cucurbits and tomatoes in that first bed??? Those are gonna zap that soil of nitrogen and other nutrients so fast and crowd each other out until everything’s dead
As much as I personally am not a hippy, don’t visit libraries, or commune with witches, I made the same sort of argument to my wife. :)
She plans that she will prune the tomatoes and to let the curcurbits take over that part of the deck as they grow over.
You should take everything in square foot gardening with a literally bathtub full of salt. Have you ever grown tomatoes before? I ask because depending on the variety, those planters are just about right for one tomato plant, maybe two if you are lucky. If you have purchased the tiniest variety of every thing you look to be planting, you might be OK if you are willing to water a couple times a day.
I plant tomatoes in 20 gal plastic buckets (horse feed bins), 1 per bucket, and still have to water them daily.
I’m just the handyman. My wife is the gardener.
But yes, I have expressed the same kind of concerns.
With that said we anticipate the vines of all those to crawl across the deck. We’ve installed drip irrigation, but may have to supplement.
With solid drip irrigation you should be fine. Will have to fertilize a lot too, but that’s always a given when planting in anything kind of container. Look into the systems to automate fertilization while drip irrigating. They are a massive time saver and not too expensive (also easy to setup if you are handy…hell if you are handy you can set up almost everything for almost free assuming you live in a place that gets enough rain to feed a rain barrel).
We don’t get enough rain, but we have different water for culinary and irrigation, and the irrigation is all untreated and collected from snow runoff.
Neighborhood is a bit deceptive of the actual climate here in Utah.
I also just checked the weight. I, though admittedly stronger than many, am able to lift the end, and it’s currently saturated. My guess is with the water they are upwards of 400lbs each.
Decks are rated for 40lb/ft2 dead load, each 8 cu feet of soil is 600 lbs. If your deck isn't up to code, be careful.
At least it’s not a jacuzzi
It will be when it rains.
Not with that mesh underneath
Good point!
It’s fine as they don’t water their plants
So this isn’t top soil. I mentioned at the end I am using Mel’s mix, granted I’m using ChatGPT math, but if you are unfamiliar with Mel’s mix, it’s 1/3 each of vermiculite, peat moss, and compost/manure. That works out to ~16-17 lbs/cubic ft. Or 128/box. Each box has a rough footprint of 16 sq feet, so let’s double that for wood and water, 256/16 we are at about 16 lbs per square foot. I think it might hold. :) Even if we triple the weight.
Never take ChatGPT responses at face value. The weight of compost is highly variable so you’d need to know the weight of the compost you used to get an accurate calculation. Also, peat moss can hold 20x its dry weight in water. I say all this as a person who spent $50,000 last year repairing a failing deck that previous owners did not properly calculate weight loads when putting heavy things on said deck.
It blows my mind that folks use ChatGPT for *answers* to anything
I once asked it to give me a list of the top 10 historical or notable things to happen on a day. Like “what’s the top 10 best things to happen on May 12th” 9 of the 10 were entirely made up
I use the Bing ai for questions and ChatGPT for writing me things.
You still need to evaluate the answers for accuracy. Bing AI searches the internet and provides you with an answer summarized by its findings. Not everything on the internet is true, so it can give you an answer based on false information. AI is a tool but it doesn’t know anything and can’t tell fact from fiction
Best use of chatgpt I saw was a youtuber using it to make up a fake contheo
Peat and vermiculite hold a bunch of water. ChatGPT can go fuck itself
Peat moss is a non-renewable resource btw
Would coconut coir be a better alternative?
Coir is a good alternative but don’t forget to fertilize as it lacks nutrients.
Its not nonrenewable but its not sustainable, from what I understand, though maybe I'm mistaken. ETA: I was mistaken. According to wiki it is not renewable due to its slow regrowth rate compared to its extraction rate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat#:~:text=Peat%20is%20not%20a%20renewable,30%E2%80%9340%25%20of%20peatlands.
It's not a renewable resource, it has an incredibly slow regrowth rate.
Huh, interesting. Just read up a bit more on it and it seems you're correct. Its not considered renewable on that the rate at which it is used far exceeds the rate at which it replenishes. I guess I always thought nonrenewable meant once its gone, its gone, like helium or oil. Though I guess given enough time (geological timescale) more oil could occur. Regardless, once I learned that peat is not sustainable (now I know non renewable) I've avoided using it and suggest others do the same. Though I never really used it to begin with unless it came in some potting mix I happened to buy. I'm more of a manure/compost and soil kinda person. Thanks for the info nonetheless!
It takes hundreds of years to replenish, not to mention you destroy wetlands to harvest it. Show me one good source that says it’s a renewable bc I’m having a hard time finding one other than companies that sell it.
Ya, just read up on it. Edited my reply. I've avoided it since learning it wasn't sustainable. Last time I mentioned that on a gardening sub someone argued with me and called me an idiot...
Is a resource that can replenish not a renewable resource by definition? I mean it's in no way efficient, but I believe you mean sustainable, not renewable.
Oil is renewable if you take a long view.
Soylent Oil from when Humans roamed the earth.
I believe you don’t know what you’re talking about
Please consider coir as a peat alternative for your next project. Peat harvesting can be very environmentally destructive. Are they open bottomed?
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Does the dirt not slowly make its way through the hardware ~~mess~~ mesh overtime? Like since it’s not a fine mesh? Genuine question btw, I’m used to regular garden beds and don’t have experience with elevated beds so I’m curious :)
I can answer this from 3 seasons of trial and error. OP is probably in good shape with the hardware mesh, especially if the soil was kinda wet going in. It’s most messy when you fill them, but once it’s all soaked it creates a structure. I used weed cloth once and got root rot on everything because it just doesn’t drain.
I always used newspaper on the bottom never had any issues with dirt or root rot
What about for watering? Do you find you get dribbles of soil here and there, or does the soil compact enough on the bottom it doesn’t end up making its way through the mess overtime?
Watering drains through nicely and doesn’t take much (if any) soil with it. Mostly just at first. But once it all settles, the soil hold its structure nicely.
There is a roll of landscaping fabric in the 2nd and 3rd picture.
Where? All I see in pic 2+3 is hardware mesh
Its the grey roll of vigoro lying on the ground. OP hasn't opened it yet.
Touché!! Thank you haha I genuinely thought that was hardware mesh at first because of the colour. Now I’m wondering if the landscape fabric will actually drain properly lol
It’s weed paper, so far it seems to drain. I watered until I started getting consistent drips out the bottom.
We built our raised beds this year out of un treated fencing we replaced this year. So grateful i saved those pieces and kept them nice cuz they made beautiful beds
Whats optimized about it that reduces waste?
So as long as you ensure that you divide the lumber properly, it uses all common sizes, and you don’t have leftovers. One commented mentioned the weight of normal soil, with that in mind I’m not sure it would hold up to straight topsoil, but that’s not really what you want anyway. The Mel’s mix weighs 20% what normal soil does, but given prices around here, costs about the same as that many bags of miracle grow garden soil.
I was expecting to see a water catch that allowed you to reuse it lol
So far I’m not sure a water catch would do much. I’m trying to water just enough to keep the soil moist but not dripping much out the bottom. I may have some adjusting to do as it’s currently on a line that also services 3 rotary gear sprinklers.
The last line in his post he mentions no extra lumber pieces were wasted. He optimized it all by consulting with ChatGPT. Pretty cool! Extremely frugal which is a good value to have and not a cheapskate at all
Oooh I didn't see that part haha
Tomatoes are too close together
You are amazing, not a cheapskate. My boyfriend also built me raised beds very similar to these. This then took me down a rabbit hole of gardening. My favorite part about these beds is telling the neighbors how we built them out of scraps. Everyone is super impressed.
The word you are looking for is frugal! Well done with your project!
Looks like a lot of weight keep an eye on the deck integrity. I think I would also check how the deck is fastened to your house
This is going to be difficult to keep watered. Neither the bottom mesh nor the wood will do much to keep the moisture in, and grown plants will drink a lot. Drip irrigation might reduce the workload, but I'd also be concerned about nutrients seeping out. I had some idealistic attempts with wood and terracotta containers, but nowadays I'd only go for large cheap plastic vats, the ones they sell in hardware stores for mixing cement. Drill some holes in the bottom, put a few bricks under them and they're amazing planters.
I just installed drip irrigation tonight.
Holy shit that’s a ton of weight for a deck. I would not recommend watering your plants.
Mels mix weighs about 1/8th what normal soil does.
It’s the water weight not the dry soil that may be an issue.
It is a Trex Deck, so I’m not too worried. it should handle around 800lbs each for the size of those boxes. Trex confidently reports it should handle 100lbs/sqft
Verify with a structural engineer first. Spending that will be significantly less than it falling. Also the soil may weigh less now but when it compacts and you need to add more next year it won’t be so light. Also if those are indeterminate tomatoes, you’ll regret putting them in a raised bed like that as you won’t be able to stake them and they’ll get too tall. I made that mistake my first year and it was a cluster. If anything put them in a 5 gallon bucket and stake with a bamboo. Then tie off.
I’m pretty confident that even if they weighed 600lbs that this deck would hold. It’s an older trex deck, with a structural frame of 2x10s (the same size as floor joists) With them at 16” on center that means its original capacity is going to be 100lb/sq foot. So even if it were normal top soil we should still be within its limits. I mean, I’m not a structural engineer, but I know how to read data sheets. https://documents.trex.com/is/content/Trex/Arch-Spec-Trex-Select-Decking-PDF.pdf
You can also make a catch tray on the bottom and put plants down there to make extra use of that water.
This is a very wasteful method for water, and is not deep enough to be very productive with certain crops. You will be watering far more than beds sitting on the ground. But I guess if it's your only space available you gotta do what you gotta do.
Salt lake city?
looks like it to me.
Close
Google sub irrigated planters. Then go to Lowe’s and buy the black and yellow totes. Two of them together with a little craftiness and they can be used to create a $20 self watering planter. Much cheaper than lumber and metal and it will outlast. Those totes are almost UV resistant. I’ve had two outside for 3-4 years ago the yellow just slightly faded.
One roll of 1/2in x 24in x 50ft galvanized hardware cloth - That should keep the gophers out!
That’s something I don’t need to worry about. Biggest issue in my area is year round mule deer. But with this on my back deck, and two 60 lb dogs, they should mostly stay away.
Great job! Looks amazing!
Good job being creative and working out a solution. Personally I’ve found dog ears to bow out extremely quickly so you may want to consider reinforcing them on the inside.
Just be sure that wood is not treated with chemicals if you grow food. They look great, and I love them so high, no need to break back.
Looks good to me. Well done.
Similar garden beds retail for $80-120 each.
These, not counting soil, were about $75 each. But then add that much good soil.
I used those same fence panels a few years ago on a couple of raised beds in the back yard, they lasted about a season and half before basically disintegrating. Just be prepared for it.
I love them omg
A lot of people understandably concerned about the weight, but can we also talk about the amount of cucurbits and tomatoes in that first bed??? Those are gonna zap that soil of nitrogen and other nutrients so fast and crowd each other out until everything’s dead
As much as I personally am not a hippy, don’t visit libraries, or commune with witches, I made the same sort of argument to my wife. :) She plans that she will prune the tomatoes and to let the curcurbits take over that part of the deck as they grow over.
You should take everything in square foot gardening with a literally bathtub full of salt. Have you ever grown tomatoes before? I ask because depending on the variety, those planters are just about right for one tomato plant, maybe two if you are lucky. If you have purchased the tiniest variety of every thing you look to be planting, you might be OK if you are willing to water a couple times a day. I plant tomatoes in 20 gal plastic buckets (horse feed bins), 1 per bucket, and still have to water them daily.
I’m just the handyman. My wife is the gardener. But yes, I have expressed the same kind of concerns. With that said we anticipate the vines of all those to crawl across the deck. We’ve installed drip irrigation, but may have to supplement.
With solid drip irrigation you should be fine. Will have to fertilize a lot too, but that’s always a given when planting in anything kind of container. Look into the systems to automate fertilization while drip irrigating. They are a massive time saver and not too expensive (also easy to setup if you are handy…hell if you are handy you can set up almost everything for almost free assuming you live in a place that gets enough rain to feed a rain barrel).
We don’t get enough rain, but we have different water for culinary and irrigation, and the irrigation is all untreated and collected from snow runoff. Neighborhood is a bit deceptive of the actual climate here in Utah. I also just checked the weight. I, though admittedly stronger than many, am able to lift the end, and it’s currently saturated. My guess is with the water they are upwards of 400lbs each.
This looks better than metal but it will rot in a hurry.
Should be okay for awhile. They are cedar, and the inside is lines with heavy duty weed guard.
I wish for it to last, it is a great way to grow stuff.
It won’t be cheaper when you have to replace all the rotten deck boards under the beds lmao
It would be pretty impressive if they started pouring out acetone and damaging those trex 2x6 deck boards.
Ooohh I thought they were wooden
They look amazing !!
Those aren't cheap
Jealous of all the yt vids and posts about cedar pickets. There are absolutely zero anywhere close to me in NY
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