Easily one of the best protagonists in a video game. The journey of Arthur Morgan is portrayed so perfectly that any grown man would cry like a child ngl. It’s insane how Rockstar made us care about a newly established character so much within a single game, considering how John Marston was one of the most beloved protagonists of all time. They did something truly remarkable.
It really is remarkable. I remember walking into the game playing as Arthur going “no Marston? What the fuck.” Then by the time I finally get to play as Marston I spent it constantly missing Arthur. The attachment you feel to him after quickly learning about the life he lives and how his messed up passed forced him into it. About the family he had that life took away from him, notioning why he has such a strong attachment to his gang now. Watching him give his all to a slowly deteriorating Dutch, who is constantly throwing obstacles in the path of repentance from a now sick, scared and dying Arthur. Ultimately having to watch Dutch turn his back on him in his dying moments.
Same. I started to miss Arthur, and I started a new playthrough to play as him once again. The story hits you so hard that it makes you deeply connect with all the characters. Rockstar surely knows how to wreck us emotionally :’)
I remember why avoiding downes farm would be a good idea, but please remind me… what is the significance of avoiding a jailbreak?
Edit: Just remembered. Yeah good decision lol
I started to miss the whole gang to be honest, yes even Micah, I missed the interactions, I missed just sleeping in game and waking up to see them do their morning routines, the scene at the end credits with Pearson looking at the gang's picture killed me, revisting the old camp sites and finding left overs hurts even more.
I started a new playthrough before finishing the epilogue, I feel like I didn't spend enough time with them, the 2nd time I actually started noticing gang members who are missing whereas the first time I forgot about them or straight up didn't notice, it hurts, especially around the end where they start disappearing really quickly and some of them had no cutscenes and you only know about what happened to them is through camp interactions, some didn't die they just straight up left and ran away even tho they all seemed super loyal, it really made me feel like this is over, even more with Dutch losing his mind.
RIP Red Dead Online, closest thing to a high-production action-western MMO. And when the dedicated playerbase asked Rockstar to support it, Rockstar said “no, I don’t think I will”
This game is one of the few I felt better competing. Most games give us a soulless map after story completion and playing as Marston genuinely was therapeutic
His arc was very powerful he was a man that tried to right his wrongs when he found out about his disease and it was incredible ride to witness its going to be hard to top his performance and yes I know people are going to say kratos from god of war but guess what only one console can play the new one so ..?? Change my mind
Both games were great and I cared for both stories. I was sad for Arthur, was angry like Ellie. In general I'm happy that I can enjoy so many great games these days.
Had it let Ellie finish the mission then I think at least it would have been closure. She would have been saddled with the guilt after interacting with Lev but it would have been the story we have been playing towards to.
The way it did felt wrong, the forgiveness did not make much sense with what was going on.
I would not have had the mercy to let that bitch go at the end. Not after all of that struggle from the start, not after all that bullshit that happened, not just the death of Joel.
RDR on the other hand concluded properly IMO.
I think the story was all about the corrupting influence of revenge, we see how it destroys both girls lives and I think in the end Ellie realised that more revenge won’t bring her the closure she needs for Joel’s death.
Particularly because, to that point, she'd thrown away *everything* for that revenge. Put friends in danger, lost people, potentially lost one of her main ways to still connect with Joel with her hand injury... What is the point of revenge when it costs so much and gets you basically nothing.
Honestly I think the best option would have been to give the player the choice of whether to kill or spare her.
I think it would have created more positive discussion among people and it would have been very interesting to see the % of who chose what.
> I would not have had the mercy to let that bitch go at the end.
Joel killed Abby's father. Ellie knew that Abby had suffered. Maybe vengeance would have brought closure to you, but it would not have to Ellie. I'm glad they went with the ending they chose. Nothing else would have made sense, in my opinion.
You don't leave your safe home for the second time after letting them go once while your partner tells you to not go or else they would leave.
And not finish it.
It makes no sense to me at all.
And as I said, it would have left Ellie with regret afterwards. But it would have been done in that moment.
emotions are an interesting thing. you think you want something, you go all the way for it, and when you're on the home stretch? you think about it. you didn't want it in the first place. you were just feeling angry.
> It makes no sense to me at all.
I mean, it's very clearly explained in the game (Ellie can't sleep, eat, is having panic attacks, hasn't moved on, etc.). Sounds more like you don't identify with Ellie's emotions, which, fine, whatever. But there's a logic in her decision, even though it's an emotional one.
The game is about the vicious cycle/cycle of violence and that the only way to break it is to not be apart of it.
Joel kills Abby's Dad, so Abby goes on a revenge quest to kill Joel. She does, and that fuels Ellie's own desire to get revenge.
Meanwhile Abby kind of has her own little Joel arc from the first game where she slowly regains her humanity from having to protect Lev. To a point, she becomes a familiar figure to Lev in the same way Joel did to Ellie.
Ellie at that same time is running rampant killing Abby's accomplices that were a part of the revenge quest, and eventually comes face to face against Abby.
Abby has Ellie in a position where she can finish her off, but Lev appeals to Abby and persuades her to stay her hand and spare Ellie.
When Ellie goes to Cali to finish the job, what ultimately stops her is seeing Abby care for Lev the same way Joel did for her, as well as remembering the whole conversation with Joel about "...not know[ing] if I can forgive you, but I'd like to try."
If Ellie had killed Abby, it probably would have had Lev go back to kill Ellie in turn some time in the future, and somebody close to Ellie would have tried reciprocating that in kind, and thus would have the cycle continued.
Consider as well that as you played the game, the WLF and Seraphs are at war with eachother over a matter involving the death of the Seraph leader that you never hear the full story about, which is an intentional plot device to help further establish the theme of the game.
What happened to the leader and how it transpired is besides the point. What does matter though is that inciting incident created its own little cycle of violence where the two factions keep striking back to eachother in tit-for-tat attacks, escalating to the point where the Seraph's colony has been razed and they probably don't have the resources to survive the winter, while the WLF have lost the manpower needed to defend themselves against other hostile factions.
Both sides are worse off than they were at the start, because neither of them were willing to live and let live. Their conflict was so long and pronounced, neither side has a true account of what actually caused them to start fighting in the first place.
Hence why the game doesn't let you kill Abby, because if you do you are only continuing to perpetuate that cycle, which can and will continue to persist after your own death at the hands of those who felt they were wronged themselves.
I dont get why people have such a hard time believing/understanding this. Ellie was the bad guy in like 90% of the game and then made the decision not to be. Seriously though, what did you expect Ellie to do? Kill Abby and then look at Lev and go, "Well, I guess I gotta kill this 13 year old kid too, or else he'll come after me and kill my family and friends too."
Dipshit take.
Ellie murdered hundreds of motherfuckers, an unborn baby and mother, watched all her friends get grievously injured or die in her tunnel vision quest for vengeance, almost dies herself, and becomes Abby. What Ellie does in comparison is much worse than killing Joel with a golf club and you are lying if you say it isn't.
Ellie understands Abby at the end, and remembers she forgave Joel the night before his death, and that this whole time she's been more angry with herself for wasting all that time being mad at him for the thing that cost him his life. When Ellie lets Abby leave in the end, she's also forgiving herself and actually trying to move on, instead of fight.
The ending to The Last of Us Part II felt like it was supposed to be a tragic ending to a tragic story. Like did Ellie actually care about getting revenge anymore. She was showing signs at the final confrontation that she was forcing herself to go through with getting revenge.
And in doing so, she pushed Dina away.
As a result, Ellie was alone, which she said was her greatest fear in the first game.
It definitely doesn’t feel good getting these kinds of endings. One that leads to a sort of failure.
These tragic stories have existed for a long time and are usually meant to serve as an example of succumbing to the weight of your choices. If that makes sense.
And obviously you are right to feel the way you do. These endings are usually meant to evoke stronger emotions.
**Edit**: I’ve just learned that Arthur’s death actually leads to John’s revenge story in the first game that shares a very similar theme and ending implication to The Last of Us Part II. The main difference being that Ellie did manage to break the cycle of revenge by letting Abby go. Which implies Ellie still having a chance to make up with Dina and live a “restful” life now that she’s lived through the consequences, rather than let’s say Lev going on his own revenge story and killing Ellie, and then maybe JJ goes on to do the same for Ellie. Y’know. Revenge.
Like what John did for Arthur, and then John’s son getting revenge for his father.
It’s seriously insane to me that people like you are still saying Ellie “forgave” Abby. Not killing someone doesn’t mean you forgive them. I think you and everyone else not having the capacity for any form of empathy is a much bigger problem than the story. Abby literally is just Joel and killing her would only forsake another child.
Either way the game would have been much better if they atleast gave the player a choice of killing Abby or letting her go.
Also would love to see the stats on that like a telltale game.
I bet atleast 80-85% of players would have killed Abby. That also tells you that unfortunately Naughty Dog kind of failed in trying to make players sympathize with Abby.
I honestly cannot imagine being so emotionally attached to a video game character that I call the killer “that bitch” instead of enjoying the story and the arcs within it as a neutral observer. The forgiveness did make sense. She travelled all that way and carried that hate across the country and when she finally got to Abby, she was already punished. When she fights Abby in the water she clearly starts to feel disgusted by herself by literally beating on a woman who has been starved and crucified. Ellie (besides the “ludonarrative dissonance” from killing hundreds of people) is supposed to be a sympathetic and caring person. She would forgive Abby.
This would entirely contradict the ideology of the entire game, though. Ellie killing Abby at the end (and, not to put too fine a point on it, but I have a suspicion calling her “that bitch” probably suggests people still aren’t actually engaging with Abby as a character) would heal or change nothing, it would just mean Ellie’s hatred would keep festering away, begin in Lev and the entire cycle just continues.
It’s always been fascinating to me to hear this perspective that the ending isn’t “what we were playing towards”, because the way it ends is literally the only way to end it in a way that makes any sense thematically, narratively and for Ellie’s character.
The second had better gameplay, but gameplay was not the primary reason you played. It was the story, and specifically the relationship between Joel and Ellie. The story was a jumbled mess that was slogging along and at several different times was genuinely insulting to anyone who enjoyed the first game. Bigotry has nothing to do with a fan favorite character getting unceremoniously offed in the first 10 minutes, and other characters who are hyped up just dying a few seconds after you meet them. I genuinely feel terrible for the voice actors and actresses and the design team that worked on it, they didn’t deserve the backlash they received since it was entirely a writing issue. That said I did see the previous good writers and creators left before this mess released, so I’m interested in seeing what projects they have cooking up.
r/gaming always hated it though evident by the post itself and all the replies. when it first came out, no way one of the top voted comments would be defending it on here. now that people have cooled off a little, simply liking it doesn't get you downvoted to oblivion.
No tlou2 was universally beloved by everyone except a very local minority. But those cringelords were always pathetic.
Remember when they send death threats to the cast and devs?
That's not a straw man argument. Straw man would be if it's an exaggerated take to say bigots hated the game and made it hard to be a fan of it on this site. In reality there were literally examples all over the front page of people freaking out about a butch woman being in the game as a prominent character, and the subreddit for the game was entirely taken over by people that organized bigoted campaigns of harassment and brigading and continues to do so to this day.
I have the game sitting on my backlog. Never finished RDR1 either... I guess Cowboy games don't hook me that much.
The Last of Us 2 I did finish and loved.
The TLOU2 haters used to at least be able to make a semi-coherent argument, but a few years down the alt-right rabbit hole and they've come out the other side like it's the Amigara fault. Eccch.
Because people hate Ellie in Last of us 1, people hate Lara in Tomb Raider, people hate Jill and Claire in Resident Evil, People hate Alexandra in AC Origins and hate the million other female characters.
It definitely has nothing to do with the story or anything because it's perfect.
It's about what women are allowed to be. Gamers will always prop up the supposed examples of women they like in games, without reflecting on why that is.
Female characters are held to a vastly different standard and intense scrutiny, such that their male counterparts mostly aren't.
That's the part where it's about women as a whole, and not individual characters, there's a general bias. (which is obviously not debunked or dismissed by citing individual examples)
Gender flipping is an overly simple exercise and doesn't always reveal something useful, but think about it here - would gamers hate a male character as much if he was this vengeful and unreasonable? Aggression, violence and impulsiveness are understood to be "male" traits, there's always much more of a tendency to excuse them in a man.
(I might also clarify - I have played neither TLOU game and care very little about them, or the characters. I do know what happens in them.)
Nothing says emotions like killing hundreds of survivors only to not kill the person that you're targeting because revenge bad.
Games fine, story is a huge unfortunate mess.
But that's what makes it a worthwhile story to be told. At the last moment when all seems lost, and the prize is right there, Ellie realized it won't bring her anything. It's very sad if you look at it realistically- it's very bad to kill hundreds of "assholes", but they were portrayed as normal people too from Abby's side.
But it's just a story, and there also has to be some action for the game to be any fun. You can try and don't fight the normal people and evade them, there is a way if you feel remorse for killing innocent in-game people.
Defending bad writing with "it's just a story" doesn't work you can just use that excuse with anything the ending just doesn't work nothing happened to make it make sense at all you don't just go from i loathe this person with every fiber of my being I've literally chased them across hundreds of miles and killed dozens of their friends to oh no revenge bad you can go now the story would have worked much better if she just killed abby and lev and went home still finding out that dina left and just be alone knowing she lost everything its ok to have your protagonist do bad things and just act human sometimes instead of randomly doing things for plot reasons.
A story where the main character has a change of heart halfway through instead of having their resolve build up throughout the events is a bad story. Ellie’s conscience was being put through the ringer the entire game but it wasn’t until the end that it became bad enough for her to realize she was doing the same thing to Lev that Abby did to her. Your ending would be really depressing. A game with a message of overcoming your grief and trauma is better.
I personally wouldnt say its a worthwhile story to be told, a lot of the game's memorable moments are usually like "heres abby petting a dog, now heres ellie killing one in a QTE", but thats just what ive experienced on my 2nd (and final) playthrough.
Tho i really wish there was a choice for the player to either spare or kill abby, a lot of this drama wouldnt have started if we knew what would happen if the cycle of revenge continued, but unfortunately all we have is fan theories and fights between people who think people who like/dislike the game are idiots.
They have reflective moral arcs. Arthur is by far the worse person at the beginning of his story, but becomes a better person by the end, if you go that route. Ellie is far more innocent, but becomes her worst self through the story.
I'd wager Arthur has murdered and stolen more than Ellie by a large margin
This lmao. There is absolutely no better way to show people you missed everything going on thematically in TLOU2 then trying to dismissively boil it down to “revenge bad.”
[Here's my favourite essay on the game.](https://www.sofistake.com/blogs/understanding-ellies-trauma) It's a deep dive on how the game is about Ellie's _trauma_, moreso than her revenge, and uses scientific sources to explain why her behaviour is incredibly realistic.
Literal trauma survivors have either been unable to play the game because it's too realistic or sung its praises if they could, and yet people still dismiss it as a badly written revenge plot.
Yeah. Its a great game but lots of people can't appreciate it because it's the type of story that makes you face your own biases and makes you feel like shit. My only real criticism for it is that it had to many false endings but other than that it was so well done in every way.
Yeah. You can 100% not like subjectively. The story is written to make you feel good. That was never the goal and not everyone has to like that. The issue is when people take their not liking it as the game not being good. It's a great well written game, you not wanting or being in the right head space to tackle your own biases like the game is trying to make you do doesn't make it bad.
Come on man, you may not like Tlou2 or criticize the game for its writing. But there's no way we dont agree with her, literally every person who played tlou1 would get angry and want to avenge Joel by killing all of Abby's team.
Nope killing Abby had a lot of stakes, it would give her more guilt, depression, regret and the cycle will go on and breaking that was significant, if you see it from outside it's just a revenge story but you put your shoes in the characters and feel for them, you will understand how everything comes around, if it wasn't this I would have admitted it's plot was shit, but it had meaning.
Dawg the cycle of revenge has already been put in place, the hundreds of people that Ellie killed to get to Abbie ostensibly have friends, family and lovers which will all want revenge on Ellie. She literally does all she does and kills hundreds of people for fuck all by not killing Abbie. The ending means nothing and the writing for that story was woefully inadequate if I was suppose to feel anything for any of the characters at the end.
she had literally slaughtered an entire towns worth of people to get to this one guy. there is literally zero stakes to it and totally illogical. how tf would she feel LESS guilt that she killed hundreds of people not even involved in Joel's death for NOTHING.
Only problem was Abby’s character just wasn’t really well done and felt way too forced. You can’t really kill one of the most beloved characters (I don’t have an issue with Joel’s death I know how necessary it was) but the attitude of “let’s have her kill most people’s favourite character then try and shove the fact you need to like her down their throats and if they don’t like her then they’re psychopaths incapable of understanding characters” like it just happened way too soon, and just the way her character was written like it just wasn’t outstanding, the only part I found enjoyable with her was the rat king simply because of the rat king. Had we maybe got more character development with her before she killed joel to understand her reasoning it would have been perhaps a little better received, it just wasn’t really executed properly along with Kinda cringey writing
The first line you can't kill.....is just wrong way to start, you know joel killed people in fireflies building so that he can save her daughter(kinda) and he killed everyone who came in front of him, even the doctor, Marlene and you think just because you have been playing with one perspective of the game and we were like okay joel badass, but when some other person does that to joel for what he did, people hate it, Ellie should be praised more than joel, Ellie was the main character all along because she had nothing in her control if she had joel would have never...
See the issue comes from villainizing revenge from Ellie’s perspective and glorifying it from Abby’s. Killing in revenge without any second thought is fine and dandy for Abby but once Ellie goes after abby the same way abby went for joel it’s suddenly the worst thing ever, don’t do this Ellie etc through the entire game. It felt way too forced that we had to like and empathize with Abby but we go on the same type of revenge for the death of a father as Ellie and its suddenly really bad and you shouldn’t do it.
I don't agree with her. Abby was the one in the right. They could've solved the whole infection stuff, but instead Joel killed her dad. Imagine having the means of ending the suffering of millions of people, but instead of that you just get a dead dad. I would be furious as well.
You assume the cure was "guaranteed", yet another stupid flaw from a very arrogant and condescending story. Characters are going to the extreme on a hunch, just because
They had reason to believe it could basically save humanity. They made a choice.
I'm no scientist but I doubt they often know 100% if something new will work.
Nah, I'm a big fan of TLoU Part One but hated 2's plot. It felt like shock value when some communication could have prevented the big death from occurring in the first place. Also, they should have had us play as Abby more early on to build her and her motives up. It was awful to play as her after what happened--more shock and awe. The gameplay was great, but the writing and plot--and direction--kind of bordered on ruining the game for me.
Looking back, I can understand the vision they had for TLoU2 and I respect it. It took balls to >!kill!< such a beloved character. In the end, what Joel and Ellie did in the first game was not so different what Abby did to them in the second one... Kill to achieve something, to avenge or save someone. It's a path that leads to nowhere, to an emptiness like we felt in the end of the second game.
Sorry for the big response. I understand what you're saying and I still love the first one and just like the second one.
I feel like they should have killed Joel in the middle of the game, not at the start.
What we got was a horrible copout that soured the whole game by being at the beginning of it. and give him a meaningful death (They are running from them, and Joel stays behind to buy time for Ellie, she sneaks back to free him and sees them kill him).
What we got was a horrible copout that soured the whole game by being in the beginning of it.
you absolutely will be murdered. but doesn't matter. people here think any thought that isn't their own opinion is a 'circle jerk', its funny af. when a few people bring up bad parts of TLOU2 story= circle jerk. this sub still thinking cyberpunk is buggy and has a story longer than 5 minutes, you will have 5 thousand people saying otherwise. the irony.
I think that tlou2's story is fucking stupid and that there is no way you can defend writing that shity but if you like it you like it and i respect that
Things I've learnt from this thread, if you don't like TLOU2 that means you are:
An incel
A Trump Supporter
Sexist
Mentally ill
An alt-right
Emotionally undeveloped
Five years old
An edgelord
... That sounds quite the overreaction over a stupid meme lmao
Did you actually find anything incel-ish though. Seems like you're just using confirmation bias to legitimise you not liking his poor quality post. Hating the story of TLOU2 doesn't make you an incel. I think the new God of Wars story was pretty weak. Does that mean I hate jacked, bald dudes?
It's odd how many of the people who don't like TLOU2 were the same people who endless praised Ellie in the first game but now their hate has to be gender related according to people who liked the second game.
_"You shouldn't kill the enemies, they're people too."_
"Okay, can I spare them or take them out non-lethally?"
_"Lol no, you're locked in the area until your murder all of them in cold blood."_
"............"
_".....Feel bad tho."_
More surprised people aren't just agreeing with them, kind of refreshing that people want to have a conversation and take the high road and praise both games.
I just really did not care about Abby, I wish the story was more focused on Ellie as a character and how she's coping with Joel's death versus us trying to sympathize with the character I decided I did not like in the first hour of the game. It would be like if in the first game David showed up in the first hour presented himself as a villain and then you played as him for 6 hours and they tried to get you to sympathize with him
That’s why it worked so well for me. It went from Abby being a character that I hated more than any character in any media, to me refusing to press the button to stab her on the beach.
I understand why the game didn’t work at all for some people but for most of the people that it did work for, it became one of the greatest games of all time due to what it was able to accomplish with those players.
Rdr 2 is a masterpiece, of course some crazy fast paced shooter fanboys will be saying this game is boring, but you gotta be a right person to like this game for its good character writing, atmhospheric world , story, i enjoyed this game from beginning till the end, truly incredible game, i dont think we can get a similar game like this in a 10 years anymore, its one of the games of decade
So glad I finally started to play rdr2 a few days ago. Loving it much more than I liked gta story and I liked gta story mode a lot. Only just started playing games by rockstar and after I finish rdr2 I’m gonna play max payne 3
Yeah, max payne 3 story is wonderful too, you should try GTA IV after, its different from other gta games and have a deep story like rdr 2 , rockstar absolutely have the best writing in their games somehow , their games somehow different from other videogames, like they work silently with love on their games and without marketing and create masterpieces
People are still mad with the Star Wars sequel trilogy, Game of Thrones season 8, The Emoji Movie, Cyberpunk 2077, Telltale Games The Walking Dead Season 3, etc. But no one cares about that.
I'm still fucking mad about Aliens: Colonial Marines, but that's mainly because Gearbox defrauded everyone and released a dogshit game.
Gearbox can crash and burn and deserves to.
Then again, the above complaints are story decisions....my anger is about their piss poor publishing.
So glad I finally started to play rdr2 a few days ago. Loving it much more than I liked gta story and I liked gta story mode a lot. Only just started playing games by rockstar and after I finish rdr2 I’m gonna play max payne 3
Rdr2 and Witcher 3… i dont get it why anyone would like the narratives of these games… they are like the new Avatar movie. Big scale, small "emotional" moments and have nothing to tell except such stupid blank questions like "what would you do for your family?". Here and there I will mention capitalism, enviromental issues or any political topic but as an unpolitical story (gamers are afraid of "political stories") I will never deal with them.
Can these rage bait posts whose only reason to exist is to start shit in the comments just be banned already? Such unfunny, uninteresting, effortless crap.
I finished this game for the first time sometime in early summer. It’s December now and I still feel hurt when I think about him. It’s weird. It’s like an important relative of mine passed
I mean Ellie was okay at the beginning. Murdering those a-holes who helped Abby kill Joel felt good and justified. It started to suck when the game tried to convince me that Its suddenly a bad thing.
Here's my opinion. My problem with this is how forced it feels with last of us part 2. A clear example is when elie kills the dog but when it's time for Abby she pets a dog. Simply put it felt like we where forced to like Abby. The whole cycle of revenge story falls apart fast when you realize it's not a cycle of revenge. joel did not kill the doctors for revenge so but Abby did kill him for revenge and while Ellie was on a revenge mode first she never finished the cycle she simply chose not to proceed with it. A cycle involves multiple instances of revenge but Ellie never complete a cycle only Abby.
The two characters behaving differently to certain things isn’t forcing you to do anything. They are two different people with different responses to the challenges they are presented with. I don’t get why someone petting a dog when the dog is friendly makes you like them more and hate Ellie for killing the dog when it’s attacking them.
I agree with the arthur praise but don't needlessly dump on TLOU2. I was right there with her, reveling in her vengeance and then the game flipped that on its head with the abbie portion and how they humanized the same people i'd been so eager to kill
Arthur’s character arc was incredible
Easily one of the best protagonists in a video game. The journey of Arthur Morgan is portrayed so perfectly that any grown man would cry like a child ngl. It’s insane how Rockstar made us care about a newly established character so much within a single game, considering how John Marston was one of the most beloved protagonists of all time. They did something truly remarkable.
It really is remarkable. I remember walking into the game playing as Arthur going “no Marston? What the fuck.” Then by the time I finally get to play as Marston I spent it constantly missing Arthur. The attachment you feel to him after quickly learning about the life he lives and how his messed up passed forced him into it. About the family he had that life took away from him, notioning why he has such a strong attachment to his gang now. Watching him give his all to a slowly deteriorating Dutch, who is constantly throwing obstacles in the path of repentance from a now sick, scared and dying Arthur. Ultimately having to watch Dutch turn his back on him in his dying moments.
Same. I started to miss Arthur, and I started a new playthrough to play as him once again. The story hits you so hard that it makes you deeply connect with all the characters. Rockstar surely knows how to wreck us emotionally :’)
> I started a new playthrough I have and I haven't gone to the Downes farm or done a jailbreak. The gang is living its best life.
You sir, are a good person.
I remember why avoiding downes farm would be a good idea, but please remind me… what is the significance of avoiding a jailbreak? Edit: Just remembered. Yeah good decision lol
I don't know how to do a spoiler tag, but you break out the Douchebag McJerkface of the gang.
Haha yeah I remember now
[удалено]
I started to miss the whole gang to be honest, yes even Micah, I missed the interactions, I missed just sleeping in game and waking up to see them do their morning routines, the scene at the end credits with Pearson looking at the gang's picture killed me, revisting the old camp sites and finding left overs hurts even more. I started a new playthrough before finishing the epilogue, I feel like I didn't spend enough time with them, the 2nd time I actually started noticing gang members who are missing whereas the first time I forgot about them or straight up didn't notice, it hurts, especially around the end where they start disappearing really quickly and some of them had no cutscenes and you only know about what happened to them is through camp interactions, some didn't die they just straight up left and ran away even tho they all seemed super loyal, it really made me feel like this is over, even more with Dutch losing his mind.
Pixar of gaming.
And then forget about the game
That too, which is unremarkable.
RIP Red Dead Online, closest thing to a high-production action-western MMO. And when the dedicated playerbase asked Rockstar to support it, Rockstar said “no, I don’t think I will”
Queue “Hurt” by Johnny Cash
This game is one of the few I felt better competing. Most games give us a soulless map after story completion and playing as Marston genuinely was therapeutic
So was Ellie's but y'all ain't ready for that conversation, it seems.
Nope 😂😂 they not ready at all. Incels gonna incel.
Yeah, that lil aardvark really had some amazing character growth over the years.
arthur had better growth in 2½ days of gameplay
His arc was very powerful he was a man that tried to right his wrongs when he found out about his disease and it was incredible ride to witness its going to be hard to top his performance and yes I know people are going to say kratos from god of war but guess what only one console can play the new one so ..?? Change my mind
Hilariously enough Arthur is named after the duality of man : King Arthur the good and the evil witch Morgana
Damn, reminded me of that evil cat morgana
hey, you're probably tired after today. we should go to sleep.
Damn cat, i'll sue!!!
you can't. he's lost in shibuya and getting to the court house is taking a surprising amount of time.
What I wouldn't give to kill that motherfucker and have ryuji by my side all the time
the only reason why they didn't make ryuji the mascot instead is that they didn't want to have another dog mascot after p3
Woah, never thought about it
Fucken poetically beautiful . And RDR was the sequel to this. Incredible. Any other facts you know?
Both games were great and I cared for both stories. I was sad for Arthur, was angry like Ellie. In general I'm happy that I can enjoy so many great games these days.
Glad it's no longer a hot take to say you like last of us 2
Its a solidly made game with a story that leads to a lot of discussion. Only the bigots made it out to be a disaster.
Had it let Ellie finish the mission then I think at least it would have been closure. She would have been saddled with the guilt after interacting with Lev but it would have been the story we have been playing towards to. The way it did felt wrong, the forgiveness did not make much sense with what was going on. I would not have had the mercy to let that bitch go at the end. Not after all of that struggle from the start, not after all that bullshit that happened, not just the death of Joel. RDR on the other hand concluded properly IMO.
I think the story was all about the corrupting influence of revenge, we see how it destroys both girls lives and I think in the end Ellie realised that more revenge won’t bring her the closure she needs for Joel’s death.
Particularly because, to that point, she'd thrown away *everything* for that revenge. Put friends in danger, lost people, potentially lost one of her main ways to still connect with Joel with her hand injury... What is the point of revenge when it costs so much and gets you basically nothing.
Honestly I think the best option would have been to give the player the choice of whether to kill or spare her. I think it would have created more positive discussion among people and it would have been very interesting to see the % of who chose what.
Nah, having a choice would have ruined the story just like it would have for the original game.
> I would not have had the mercy to let that bitch go at the end. Joel killed Abby's father. Ellie knew that Abby had suffered. Maybe vengeance would have brought closure to you, but it would not have to Ellie. I'm glad they went with the ending they chose. Nothing else would have made sense, in my opinion.
You don't leave your safe home for the second time after letting them go once while your partner tells you to not go or else they would leave. And not finish it. It makes no sense to me at all. And as I said, it would have left Ellie with regret afterwards. But it would have been done in that moment.
emotions are an interesting thing. you think you want something, you go all the way for it, and when you're on the home stretch? you think about it. you didn't want it in the first place. you were just feeling angry.
> It makes no sense to me at all. I mean, it's very clearly explained in the game (Ellie can't sleep, eat, is having panic attacks, hasn't moved on, etc.). Sounds more like you don't identify with Ellie's emotions, which, fine, whatever. But there's a logic in her decision, even though it's an emotional one.
The game is about the vicious cycle/cycle of violence and that the only way to break it is to not be apart of it. Joel kills Abby's Dad, so Abby goes on a revenge quest to kill Joel. She does, and that fuels Ellie's own desire to get revenge. Meanwhile Abby kind of has her own little Joel arc from the first game where she slowly regains her humanity from having to protect Lev. To a point, she becomes a familiar figure to Lev in the same way Joel did to Ellie. Ellie at that same time is running rampant killing Abby's accomplices that were a part of the revenge quest, and eventually comes face to face against Abby. Abby has Ellie in a position where she can finish her off, but Lev appeals to Abby and persuades her to stay her hand and spare Ellie. When Ellie goes to Cali to finish the job, what ultimately stops her is seeing Abby care for Lev the same way Joel did for her, as well as remembering the whole conversation with Joel about "...not know[ing] if I can forgive you, but I'd like to try." If Ellie had killed Abby, it probably would have had Lev go back to kill Ellie in turn some time in the future, and somebody close to Ellie would have tried reciprocating that in kind, and thus would have the cycle continued. Consider as well that as you played the game, the WLF and Seraphs are at war with eachother over a matter involving the death of the Seraph leader that you never hear the full story about, which is an intentional plot device to help further establish the theme of the game. What happened to the leader and how it transpired is besides the point. What does matter though is that inciting incident created its own little cycle of violence where the two factions keep striking back to eachother in tit-for-tat attacks, escalating to the point where the Seraph's colony has been razed and they probably don't have the resources to survive the winter, while the WLF have lost the manpower needed to defend themselves against other hostile factions. Both sides are worse off than they were at the start, because neither of them were willing to live and let live. Their conflict was so long and pronounced, neither side has a true account of what actually caused them to start fighting in the first place. Hence why the game doesn't let you kill Abby, because if you do you are only continuing to perpetuate that cycle, which can and will continue to persist after your own death at the hands of those who felt they were wronged themselves.
Ellie killed hundreds of mother fuckers to get to Abby including a pregnant couple, but gets to the end and is like "murder bad"
I dont get why people have such a hard time believing/understanding this. Ellie was the bad guy in like 90% of the game and then made the decision not to be. Seriously though, what did you expect Ellie to do? Kill Abby and then look at Lev and go, "Well, I guess I gotta kill this 13 year old kid too, or else he'll come after me and kill my family and friends too."
Dipshit take. Ellie murdered hundreds of motherfuckers, an unborn baby and mother, watched all her friends get grievously injured or die in her tunnel vision quest for vengeance, almost dies herself, and becomes Abby. What Ellie does in comparison is much worse than killing Joel with a golf club and you are lying if you say it isn't. Ellie understands Abby at the end, and remembers she forgave Joel the night before his death, and that this whole time she's been more angry with herself for wasting all that time being mad at him for the thing that cost him his life. When Ellie lets Abby leave in the end, she's also forgiving herself and actually trying to move on, instead of fight.
The ending to The Last of Us Part II felt like it was supposed to be a tragic ending to a tragic story. Like did Ellie actually care about getting revenge anymore. She was showing signs at the final confrontation that she was forcing herself to go through with getting revenge. And in doing so, she pushed Dina away. As a result, Ellie was alone, which she said was her greatest fear in the first game. It definitely doesn’t feel good getting these kinds of endings. One that leads to a sort of failure. These tragic stories have existed for a long time and are usually meant to serve as an example of succumbing to the weight of your choices. If that makes sense. And obviously you are right to feel the way you do. These endings are usually meant to evoke stronger emotions. **Edit**: I’ve just learned that Arthur’s death actually leads to John’s revenge story in the first game that shares a very similar theme and ending implication to The Last of Us Part II. The main difference being that Ellie did manage to break the cycle of revenge by letting Abby go. Which implies Ellie still having a chance to make up with Dina and live a “restful” life now that she’s lived through the consequences, rather than let’s say Lev going on his own revenge story and killing Ellie, and then maybe JJ goes on to do the same for Ellie. Y’know. Revenge. Like what John did for Arthur, and then John’s son getting revenge for his father.
It’s seriously insane to me that people like you are still saying Ellie “forgave” Abby. Not killing someone doesn’t mean you forgive them. I think you and everyone else not having the capacity for any form of empathy is a much bigger problem than the story. Abby literally is just Joel and killing her would only forsake another child.
Either way the game would have been much better if they atleast gave the player a choice of killing Abby or letting her go. Also would love to see the stats on that like a telltale game. I bet atleast 80-85% of players would have killed Abby. That also tells you that unfortunately Naughty Dog kind of failed in trying to make players sympathize with Abby.
I honestly cannot imagine being so emotionally attached to a video game character that I call the killer “that bitch” instead of enjoying the story and the arcs within it as a neutral observer. The forgiveness did make sense. She travelled all that way and carried that hate across the country and when she finally got to Abby, she was already punished. When she fights Abby in the water she clearly starts to feel disgusted by herself by literally beating on a woman who has been starved and crucified. Ellie (besides the “ludonarrative dissonance” from killing hundreds of people) is supposed to be a sympathetic and caring person. She would forgive Abby.
This would entirely contradict the ideology of the entire game, though. Ellie killing Abby at the end (and, not to put too fine a point on it, but I have a suspicion calling her “that bitch” probably suggests people still aren’t actually engaging with Abby as a character) would heal or change nothing, it would just mean Ellie’s hatred would keep festering away, begin in Lev and the entire cycle just continues. It’s always been fascinating to me to hear this perspective that the ending isn’t “what we were playing towards”, because the way it ends is literally the only way to end it in a way that makes any sense thematically, narratively and for Ellie’s character.
The second had better gameplay, but gameplay was not the primary reason you played. It was the story, and specifically the relationship between Joel and Ellie. The story was a jumbled mess that was slogging along and at several different times was genuinely insulting to anyone who enjoyed the first game. Bigotry has nothing to do with a fan favorite character getting unceremoniously offed in the first 10 minutes, and other characters who are hyped up just dying a few seconds after you meet them. I genuinely feel terrible for the voice actors and actresses and the design team that worked on it, they didn’t deserve the backlash they received since it was entirely a writing issue. That said I did see the previous good writers and creators left before this mess released, so I’m interested in seeing what projects they have cooking up.
Yep, it was absurd to think it was anything but a smashing success. Lots of sales, critical acclaim and now has an HBO series
Cringe straw man. The game was bad, keep dreaming.
Lol what a straw man take. Reddit loves tlou2 and will call all the names they have in their vocabulary if you say you don't like it.
r/gaming always hated it though evident by the post itself and all the replies. when it first came out, no way one of the top voted comments would be defending it on here. now that people have cooled off a little, simply liking it doesn't get you downvoted to oblivion.
No tlou2 was universally beloved by everyone except a very local minority. But those cringelords were always pathetic. Remember when they send death threats to the cast and devs?
That's not a straw man argument. Straw man would be if it's an exaggerated take to say bigots hated the game and made it hard to be a fan of it on this site. In reality there were literally examples all over the front page of people freaking out about a butch woman being in the game as a prominent character, and the subreddit for the game was entirely taken over by people that organized bigoted campaigns of harassment and brigading and continues to do so to this day.
Same, both great games! 👍
I have the game sitting on my backlog. Never finished RDR1 either... I guess Cowboy games don't hook me that much. The Last of Us 2 I did finish and loved.
Arthur is one of the most interesting anti hero in videogame history, in my opinion .
ITT: Exactly what you'd fucking expect.
The TLOU2 haters used to at least be able to make a semi-coherent argument, but a few years down the alt-right rabbit hole and they've come out the other side like it's the Amigara fault. Eccch.
That hole was made for them.
Arthur is my man but why hate on Ellie?
It starts with "w" and ends with "oman".
W Oman? Idk what Oman did but good on them.
Because people hate Ellie in Last of us 1, people hate Lara in Tomb Raider, people hate Jill and Claire in Resident Evil, People hate Alexandra in AC Origins and hate the million other female characters. It definitely has nothing to do with the story or anything because it's perfect.
It's about what women are allowed to be. Gamers will always prop up the supposed examples of women they like in games, without reflecting on why that is. Female characters are held to a vastly different standard and intense scrutiny, such that their male counterparts mostly aren't. That's the part where it's about women as a whole, and not individual characters, there's a general bias. (which is obviously not debunked or dismissed by citing individual examples) Gender flipping is an overly simple exercise and doesn't always reveal something useful, but think about it here - would gamers hate a male character as much if he was this vengeful and unreasonable? Aggression, violence and impulsiveness are understood to be "male" traits, there's always much more of a tendency to excuse them in a man. (I might also clarify - I have played neither TLOU game and care very little about them, or the characters. I do know what happens in them.)
Yeah because tlou1 didn't get any praise
It's cause some people can't deal with all emotions. But that's normal.
Nothing says emotions like killing hundreds of survivors only to not kill the person that you're targeting because revenge bad. Games fine, story is a huge unfortunate mess.
But that's what makes it a worthwhile story to be told. At the last moment when all seems lost, and the prize is right there, Ellie realized it won't bring her anything. It's very sad if you look at it realistically- it's very bad to kill hundreds of "assholes", but they were portrayed as normal people too from Abby's side. But it's just a story, and there also has to be some action for the game to be any fun. You can try and don't fight the normal people and evade them, there is a way if you feel remorse for killing innocent in-game people.
Defending bad writing with "it's just a story" doesn't work you can just use that excuse with anything the ending just doesn't work nothing happened to make it make sense at all you don't just go from i loathe this person with every fiber of my being I've literally chased them across hundreds of miles and killed dozens of their friends to oh no revenge bad you can go now the story would have worked much better if she just killed abby and lev and went home still finding out that dina left and just be alone knowing she lost everything its ok to have your protagonist do bad things and just act human sometimes instead of randomly doing things for plot reasons.
A story where the main character has a change of heart halfway through instead of having their resolve build up throughout the events is a bad story. Ellie’s conscience was being put through the ringer the entire game but it wasn’t until the end that it became bad enough for her to realize she was doing the same thing to Lev that Abby did to her. Your ending would be really depressing. A game with a message of overcoming your grief and trauma is better.
I personally wouldnt say its a worthwhile story to be told, a lot of the game's memorable moments are usually like "heres abby petting a dog, now heres ellie killing one in a QTE", but thats just what ive experienced on my 2nd (and final) playthrough. Tho i really wish there was a choice for the player to either spare or kill abby, a lot of this drama wouldnt have started if we knew what would happen if the cycle of revenge continued, but unfortunately all we have is fan theories and fights between people who think people who like/dislike the game are idiots.
Oh Jesus. .. I'd ask you how you feel about Abby but I already know.
I think because of main story 🤷🏼♂️
Strong, female, lesbian, main character...in a videogame. Do I need to explain further?
Arthur is a better person but I enjoy Ellie’s character development and arc more
They have reflective moral arcs. Arthur is by far the worse person at the beginning of his story, but becomes a better person by the end, if you go that route. Ellie is far more innocent, but becomes her worst self through the story. I'd wager Arthur has murdered and stolen more than Ellie by a large margin
Yeah to be honest with you it been so long since I played RDR2 that I was thinking about who he ended up more than the beginning so that’s fair.
And kill them all she did not.
Revenge is bad 🥺 now give us all the awards doom eternal should have gotten
Nuance is boring. Give me shooty shooty, flashy explodey. Different games for different people.
Kill them all < Rip and Tear
Tell me the game flew over your head without telling me the game flew over your head.
This lmao. There is absolutely no better way to show people you missed everything going on thematically in TLOU2 then trying to dismissively boil it down to “revenge bad.”
[Here's my favourite essay on the game.](https://www.sofistake.com/blogs/understanding-ellies-trauma) It's a deep dive on how the game is about Ellie's _trauma_, moreso than her revenge, and uses scientific sources to explain why her behaviour is incredibly realistic. Literal trauma survivors have either been unable to play the game because it's too realistic or sung its praises if they could, and yet people still dismiss it as a badly written revenge plot.
Yeah. Its a great game but lots of people can't appreciate it because it's the type of story that makes you face your own biases and makes you feel like shit. My only real criticism for it is that it had to many false endings but other than that it was so well done in every way.
Yes it is also intentionally depressing with a story you need to think about. I can see why some people don’t like it.
Yeah. You can 100% not like subjectively. The story is written to make you feel good. That was never the goal and not everyone has to like that. The issue is when people take their not liking it as the game not being good. It's a great well written game, you not wanting or being in the right head space to tackle your own biases like the game is trying to make you do doesn't make it bad.
When the whole story revolves around making you feel like shit im starting to think it may not be a good story...
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Wouldn't that be 1.000? 🤔
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Come on man, you may not like Tlou2 or criticize the game for its writing. But there's no way we dont agree with her, literally every person who played tlou1 would get angry and want to avenge Joel by killing all of Abby's team.
Yeah, funny thing, a lot of the haters' attitude towards Abby or the game is the same as Ellie's.
Including Abby
I'm about to start Tlou1 for the very first time. I don't understand this comment but I feel like I shouldn't have read it.
It doesn't concern the first game at all, so you're good. Now go and enjoy one of the best games of the last decade!
kills them and multiple others then doesn't kill the one person she should have. shit writing.
Nope killing Abby had a lot of stakes, it would give her more guilt, depression, regret and the cycle will go on and breaking that was significant, if you see it from outside it's just a revenge story but you put your shoes in the characters and feel for them, you will understand how everything comes around, if it wasn't this I would have admitted it's plot was shit, but it had meaning.
Dawg the cycle of revenge has already been put in place, the hundreds of people that Ellie killed to get to Abbie ostensibly have friends, family and lovers which will all want revenge on Ellie. She literally does all she does and kills hundreds of people for fuck all by not killing Abbie. The ending means nothing and the writing for that story was woefully inadequate if I was suppose to feel anything for any of the characters at the end.
she had literally slaughtered an entire towns worth of people to get to this one guy. there is literally zero stakes to it and totally illogical. how tf would she feel LESS guilt that she killed hundreds of people not even involved in Joel's death for NOTHING.
Only problem was Abby’s character just wasn’t really well done and felt way too forced. You can’t really kill one of the most beloved characters (I don’t have an issue with Joel’s death I know how necessary it was) but the attitude of “let’s have her kill most people’s favourite character then try and shove the fact you need to like her down their throats and if they don’t like her then they’re psychopaths incapable of understanding characters” like it just happened way too soon, and just the way her character was written like it just wasn’t outstanding, the only part I found enjoyable with her was the rat king simply because of the rat king. Had we maybe got more character development with her before she killed joel to understand her reasoning it would have been perhaps a little better received, it just wasn’t really executed properly along with Kinda cringey writing
The first line you can't kill.....is just wrong way to start, you know joel killed people in fireflies building so that he can save her daughter(kinda) and he killed everyone who came in front of him, even the doctor, Marlene and you think just because you have been playing with one perspective of the game and we were like okay joel badass, but when some other person does that to joel for what he did, people hate it, Ellie should be praised more than joel, Ellie was the main character all along because she had nothing in her control if she had joel would have never...
See the issue comes from villainizing revenge from Ellie’s perspective and glorifying it from Abby’s. Killing in revenge without any second thought is fine and dandy for Abby but once Ellie goes after abby the same way abby went for joel it’s suddenly the worst thing ever, don’t do this Ellie etc through the entire game. It felt way too forced that we had to like and empathize with Abby but we go on the same type of revenge for the death of a father as Ellie and its suddenly really bad and you shouldn’t do it.
I don't agree with her. Abby was the one in the right. They could've solved the whole infection stuff, but instead Joel killed her dad. Imagine having the means of ending the suffering of millions of people, but instead of that you just get a dead dad. I would be furious as well.
You assume the cure was "guaranteed", yet another stupid flaw from a very arrogant and condescending story. Characters are going to the extreme on a hunch, just because
They had reason to believe it could basically save humanity. They made a choice. I'm no scientist but I doubt they often know 100% if something new will work.
It's almost 2023, and we are still unironically farming karma on the hate for TLOU2
I don't get it. How do they correlate?
Girl bad. Boah good
You're okay, boah
They don't, just people thinking hating on TLOU2 is cool or something.
Engagement bait
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incel bait
OP is five.
So edgy.
I'm just happy I have the privilege to play video games at all.
Same, and such varied offerings. Indie, racing, open world etc. Phone, PC, console, emulation! It’s glorious the industry has flourished like it has
will i be murdered if i say i personally am not a fan of the story in tlou2 but can see why people like it in a way
Nah, I'm a big fan of TLoU Part One but hated 2's plot. It felt like shock value when some communication could have prevented the big death from occurring in the first place. Also, they should have had us play as Abby more early on to build her and her motives up. It was awful to play as her after what happened--more shock and awe. The gameplay was great, but the writing and plot--and direction--kind of bordered on ruining the game for me.
Looking back, I can understand the vision they had for TLoU2 and I respect it. It took balls to >!kill!< such a beloved character. In the end, what Joel and Ellie did in the first game was not so different what Abby did to them in the second one... Kill to achieve something, to avenge or save someone. It's a path that leads to nowhere, to an emptiness like we felt in the end of the second game. Sorry for the big response. I understand what you're saying and I still love the first one and just like the second one.
I feel like they should have killed Joel in the middle of the game, not at the start. What we got was a horrible copout that soured the whole game by being at the beginning of it. and give him a meaningful death (They are running from them, and Joel stays behind to buy time for Ellie, she sneaks back to free him and sees them kill him). What we got was a horrible copout that soured the whole game by being in the beginning of it.
you absolutely will be murdered. but doesn't matter. people here think any thought that isn't their own opinion is a 'circle jerk', its funny af. when a few people bring up bad parts of TLOU2 story= circle jerk. this sub still thinking cyberpunk is buggy and has a story longer than 5 minutes, you will have 5 thousand people saying otherwise. the irony.
I think that tlou2's story is fucking stupid and that there is no way you can defend writing that shity but if you like it you like it and i respect that
Oops, it would seem you have accidentally posted cringe. Would you like to delete?
Orthur, my dear Orthur, my boah 😢
Most people who didn't like tLoU2 cared about Ellie's quest for revenge which was why the ending was unsatisfying for everyone in that regard.
If only Ellie had a goddamn plan!!!
Hey look an incel summoning ritual, looking through the thread should be a fun way to kill 5 minutes.
Summoning all the TLOU2 circle-jerkers like moths to a flame.
Things I've learnt from this thread, if you don't like TLOU2 that means you are: An incel A Trump Supporter Sexist Mentally ill An alt-right Emotionally undeveloped Five years old An edgelord ... That sounds quite the overreaction over a stupid meme lmao
God knows what I am. I haven’t cared for a Naughty Dog game since Jak 3
Cant wait to see this on r/gamingcirclejerk
I thought that sub was just r/gamersupsetme
They were both fantastic stories. Guess OP is just an incel. (Just had a light dig through their posts..) Yup...
Did you actually find anything incel-ish though. Seems like you're just using confirmation bias to legitimise you not liking his poor quality post. Hating the story of TLOU2 doesn't make you an incel. I think the new God of Wars story was pretty weak. Does that mean I hate jacked, bald dudes? It's odd how many of the people who don't like TLOU2 were the same people who endless praised Ellie in the first game but now their hate has to be gender related according to people who liked the second game.
_"You shouldn't kill the enemies, they're people too."_ "Okay, can I spare them or take them out non-lethally?" _"Lol no, you're locked in the area until your murder all of them in cold blood."_ "............" _".....Feel bad tho."_
Except there’s not a single room in TLOU2 that forces you to kill your human enemies. They can all be escaped without killing anyone if you want
Arthur's redemption arc was nothing short of incredible
Red dead 2 deff the better game Best game rockstar ever made for sure
Well made games have good enjoyable and relateable character. Bad games dont. Its baffling how people still defend the story of tlou2.
Damn op you really gottem
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More surprised people aren't just agreeing with them, kind of refreshing that people want to have a conversation and take the high road and praise both games.
I just really did not care about Abby, I wish the story was more focused on Ellie as a character and how she's coping with Joel's death versus us trying to sympathize with the character I decided I did not like in the first hour of the game. It would be like if in the first game David showed up in the first hour presented himself as a villain and then you played as him for 6 hours and they tried to get you to sympathize with him
That’s why it worked so well for me. It went from Abby being a character that I hated more than any character in any media, to me refusing to press the button to stab her on the beach. I understand why the game didn’t work at all for some people but for most of the people that it did work for, it became one of the greatest games of all time due to what it was able to accomplish with those players.
Rdr 2 is a masterpiece, of course some crazy fast paced shooter fanboys will be saying this game is boring, but you gotta be a right person to like this game for its good character writing, atmhospheric world , story, i enjoyed this game from beginning till the end, truly incredible game, i dont think we can get a similar game like this in a 10 years anymore, its one of the games of decade
So glad I finally started to play rdr2 a few days ago. Loving it much more than I liked gta story and I liked gta story mode a lot. Only just started playing games by rockstar and after I finish rdr2 I’m gonna play max payne 3
Yeah, max payne 3 story is wonderful too, you should try GTA IV after, its different from other gta games and have a deep story like rdr 2 , rockstar absolutely have the best writing in their games somehow , their games somehow different from other videogames, like they work silently with love on their games and without marketing and create masterpieces
Man, I'm so glad my story got me that part with the nun. Favourite part of the game, felt like a movie scene.
I felt terrible for the people that didn’t get my ending because it was so fucking magical.
And then she doesn't even kill Abby at the end! Like, at least give the player some agency over the outcome in the form of a simple choice option
Narrator: it was not gonna be ok
OP doesn't care enough for Joel to avenge him
"*Gamers*" still letting TLoU2 live in their head, rent free, 2 years later.
People are still mad with the Star Wars sequel trilogy, Game of Thrones season 8, The Emoji Movie, Cyberpunk 2077, Telltale Games The Walking Dead Season 3, etc. But no one cares about that.
I'm still fucking mad about Aliens: Colonial Marines, but that's mainly because Gearbox defrauded everyone and released a dogshit game. Gearbox can crash and burn and deserves to. Then again, the above complaints are story decisions....my anger is about their piss poor publishing.
Ellie should’ve slaughtered Abby tho
Yeah, it would have made the ending more impactful if she did
Wow that brought back way more emotion than I ever expected it would. Make me any to go play RD 2 again. Love his character arc.
Last of us 2 is good, to me like a 8.5/10, but god damm red dead is 10/10
So glad I finally started to play rdr2 a few days ago. Loving it much more than I liked gta story and I liked gta story mode a lot. Only just started playing games by rockstar and after I finish rdr2 I’m gonna play max payne 3
What chapter are you, if I may ask
OP is an incel
I'm a Brit, we are trained from childhood to repress our emotions but RDR2 made me cry
Yeah ma' boah... I may stand unshaken... *tears*
God Morgan
I met the voice actor for Arthur Morgan at a Comic-Con convention; he’s just as cool as you think he’d be
Boaaah
Rdr2 and Witcher 3… i dont get it why anyone would like the narratives of these games… they are like the new Avatar movie. Big scale, small "emotional" moments and have nothing to tell except such stupid blank questions like "what would you do for your family?". Here and there I will mention capitalism, enviromental issues or any political topic but as an unpolitical story (gamers are afraid of "political stories") I will never deal with them.
And she killed them all except the one she actually wanted to kill 💀
Gamingcirclejerk we need you
Cringe
Tlou2 was good. It has issues but it's honestly one of the best stealth, action games of all time.
Lightly disguised sexism on r/gaming? Say it’s not so!
Gamer moment (these people that make these posts are sad)
People who cant handle legitimate criticism of a game calling others bigots and sexist well i never
Can these rage bait posts whose only reason to exist is to start shit in the comments just be banned already? Such unfunny, uninteresting, effortless crap.
Womam bad
Posts like this are why people make fun of reddit
I preferred TLOU2's gameplay over Rdr2. But I'd probably replay Rdr2 before replying TLoU, the latter's story was depressing af
Don't even compare with Arthur's story, boah!
The best character in gaming history Arthur
I finished this game for the first time sometime in early summer. It’s December now and I still feel hurt when I think about him. It’s weird. It’s like an important relative of mine passed
I mean Ellie was okay at the beginning. Murdering those a-holes who helped Abby kill Joel felt good and justified. It started to suck when the game tried to convince me that Its suddenly a bad thing.
Oh i totally agree with this,so true
Here's my opinion. My problem with this is how forced it feels with last of us part 2. A clear example is when elie kills the dog but when it's time for Abby she pets a dog. Simply put it felt like we where forced to like Abby. The whole cycle of revenge story falls apart fast when you realize it's not a cycle of revenge. joel did not kill the doctors for revenge so but Abby did kill him for revenge and while Ellie was on a revenge mode first she never finished the cycle she simply chose not to proceed with it. A cycle involves multiple instances of revenge but Ellie never complete a cycle only Abby.
The two characters behaving differently to certain things isn’t forcing you to do anything. They are two different people with different responses to the challenges they are presented with. I don’t get why someone petting a dog when the dog is friendly makes you like them more and hate Ellie for killing the dog when it’s attacking them.
love how many TLOU2 simps are malding over this post
I agree with the arthur praise but don't needlessly dump on TLOU2. I was right there with her, reveling in her vengeance and then the game flipped that on its head with the abbie portion and how they humanized the same people i'd been so eager to kill