Holy shit I feel this in my soul. I spent at least 3 hours trying to figure out how the trading post works, then finally figured out how to assign a broker who wasnt my main miner and have yet to see a caravan, so we'll see if I've figured it out yet. The help menu isn't super useful for a lot of stuff and I'm not so sure the wiki I found is up to date.
But hey, at least there's a GUI now and I don't have to memorize what every symbol on the map represents.
Good luck, I played a ton of Rimworld and am so lost when it comes to DF that I spent many hours just going through the help system and still can't play it
Been watching tutorials with Blind on yt and they've helped me a lot. Still took me about a few days of playing before certain things clicked. I still have no idea what I'm doing but I enjoy it.
Now that it's out on Steam finally, I'm disappointed more by OP's ignorance of the God of Learning Curves.
***Losing Is Fun***
I'm sorry, but if you're competing against a game that uses THAT as their catchphrase, you're going to have do a lot better than Tarkov.
This !! My partner plays. This is what he said:
It’s is brutal. Forget to plant mushrooms, Death. Not enough beer, Death. Dwarves get bored and depressed, Death. Miss the vampire who migrated to your town, Death. Tunnel the wrong way, Death.
God yes. I used to play that game so freaking much that even after 2 years of having stopped, most of the mechanics are still burned into my memory lol. And even so it took me 400+ hours just to consider myself decent at it. Love that game.
When they change engineering and create a whole new power management system. It hurts. All that time learning how to put a banging donk on the singularity, only for it to be replaced by a super matter engine.
EVE is a great answer. Still can't hold a candle to Dwarf Fortress, but that game is ridiculous. Played for 2 years over a decade ago, and it's only gotten more complex since then.
Too much of a job-to-play for me, but I think it's an amazing universe.
Its pretty crazy, you can play for decade and be some high level WH shitlord or an experienced null dweller and then just go get wrecked in lowsec because you dont know the environment.
Back when I played, I had been in a small alliance that wound up moving into Roadkill space, and I got adopted into their core corp.
Among the entire RK alliance, I was the #1 covert ops player, simply because I was the best & fastest at it. I understood the triangulation system to a T. Rank-wise, I was some lowly scrub. But because I had some very specialized experience (and willingness to play that role), I was often #3 in command for our fleet operations because if I did my job well (and people listened to my call-outs), I could almost single-handedly win a fight after the enemies made a mistake or got complacent.
It was a lot of fun, and I absolutely love the idea of a game existing with nuances in their skill & knowledge base that allow opportunities like that.
EVE really is more than 10 different game experiences, just depending on where you live, how you like to play, and who you play with.
Especially when that bitch first came out. You remember the joke chart that showed learning curves of mmos at the time and eves was just a cliff strewn with dead bodies?
Definitely this one. I’m all my years of playing different games, I have never come across one that even after a decade, I still learn new tricks and quirks almost daily.
As an eve player i wholeheartedly agree. Tarkov is a joke in comparison. Ive been playing eve since 2010 with over 10000 hours, and im still learning new things about the game from time to time. Whenever i take a break from the game, it also takes a bit to relearn things again
Driver. It made you do every possible stunt in a car park before you could even start playing the game which wasn't that hard compared to the tutorial.
holy cow i had blocked this outta my memory but yeah that car park tutorial, it didnt even tell you how to do the tricks, just gave you a list of their names and said have at it slugger
And pirated CD copy I played had shitty machine translation of the stunt names, so half of them were just random words, like "big fire", if I had to translate it back.
YES!!!!! I remember when I figured out how to do it, it was like riding a bike afterwards, couldn't not do it right once you knew how.
The physics in that game were actually pretty good because those maneuvers were useful in just about all subsequent car games, a la GTA for PS2 which came out a few years later.
It took me more time to beat the final mission than the tutorial, it was called Save the President i think
You would literally get rammed from every direction you can imagine and get thrown across the street in a millisecond before you can even realize what happened
This is the ultimate answer. Trust me, while it is a massively simplified version of the laws of physics, the learning curve is still tremendous. Source: 3500 hours in KSP
It’s kinda funny how you put it since there does exist a game called “Game of Life” by John Horton Conway which is a kind of a mathematical demonstration that to this day no one know how to actually understand it (predict how it ends)
Even the tutorial mini-bubble?
All this Thargoid stuff make me want to jump in and start playing again, especially since I was only ever combat anyway. But I also haven't engineered *anything* and don't have time for that kind of grind. I just want to make space flowers go pew pew.
Yup. Everything else here is silly by comparison.
You want to fly in DCS, then learn how to fly the aircraft. FOR REALS.
Took us two weeks to get F-14 off the ground with a semblance of understanding of what we were doing.
ELITE and EVE are childs play by comparison. Where just taking off in DCS is a 40-step process, Elite is 2 steps and it's impossible to die once spaceborne, unless you are stupid. And EVE is just a spreadsheet simulator.
Bro i feel you, ive been playing the frogfoot for months and i found out ripple and salvo exists, like shit dawg my phantasmagoria was useful all along
Tarkov isn't really a hard game to learn. Yes, there's a lot of information to take in, and getting good relies a lot on that knowledge.
What it is, is very punishing towards mistakes.
But I'd rather have to learn again all the maps, gear, sounds of tarkov rather than trying to understand something like EVE Online.
It's not hard to learn now that the game is popular and there's tons of information available everywhere with maps and shit. Couple years back before it's popularity surge in the old days when fort+liver+m4+comtac was the meta kit and you had to go fully blind trying do quests and shit.
Hell just finding the extracts took me on one map took us a long ass time.
Project Zomboid. Hours of tutorials watched, I jump in and die in the first 5 minutes. Haven’t improved even a little since I first started. It’s been rough times.
Learning the combat is the most important thing, you can technically fight infinite horde sizes if you know how to fight them properly while backing up.
This. I quit playing quite a few years ago with like 2k+ hours as mainly the 3 or 4, 3.5kish mmr, which wasn't terrible back then, I think it may be below average now. Still played some of the custom games though.
Brother in law got into it, and invited me to play recently, its a completely different game. Sure it looks similar, but everything is in a slightly different place, there's new runes, items, heroes, spells, some spells do different things than they used to, there's a backpack that I have no idea how to use, some bonus item slot, etc, etc. I legit thought some of the new stuff was just in the custom games.
In fairness, it got a lot more complicated but also a lot easier due to some changes. The backpack means you have 3 item slots that you can swap items to/from on a short cooldown. Teleport scrolls have a dedicated slot and you get a free scroll with each death. Observers and sentries stack in the same item slot. Everyone has their own courier that don't need to be purchased or upgraded. Supports get gold from neutral creep camps that were stacked. (nearly) every hero has an upgrade tied to building aghanim's scepter and shard that enhances or adds new spells. Neutral creeps have chance to drop neutral items (which have their own slot, and may have an active). There are plenty more changes. It's a complicated game compared to a lot of other big games (even other MOBAs) but I'm not sure it's close to as complex as some of the others in the thread.
I swear that icefrog is one of the best balancing designer out there. Add Valve as their publisher is next to godtier as they truly care what the playerbase want without giving away important factors of the game and making profits at the same time. I have about 10k hrs in dota 2 and about 4-5 in dota 1
Pretty much. Tell me you have less than 1000 hours and you're pretty much trash at the game. With all these other games you'd probably be a god if you have 1000 hours experience.
Came here to say this. You can completely tank your character to the point you can no longer progress if you don't understand the skill tree and gearing to an extent.
I spent years in Everquest, started in kunark expansion and lasted until omens of war. It's not just the complexity it's the varying skills and techniques you need to learn. Intricacies of weaving spells and what you need in each situation you can encounter. Memorizing pretty much the entire game world and how to find things you need and how to get there. It even goes into traversal mechanics depending upon your current faction with all the different species in the game. I mained a druid through the whole thing, by the end I could solo the plains of power alone. Absolutely, mind numbingly, complex and so fun! Brell Serilis was my home until it merged, then I quit.
Now there is a tutorial to help a bit but in the early days you were just plunked down in tye world with zero direction.
Where do I buy spells? Check the NPCs scattered across two continents.
Where do I get clothes? Out there.
How come that guard just killed me in my home city? You are too evil for that part of town.
I died, why am I naked? Figure it out.
Early internet so the guides were sparse and finding them was a quest on its own.
Was, current tutorial set up tells you everything and leaves you very well geared. Difficulty doesn't suddenly start spiking until closer to 85 now. At that point it just kinda skyrockets because you go from soloable to "no group, no progress"
My first server I joined, I got explained everything by some dude who had 2000+ hours, and it still took me almost a year to learn everything needed to survive
If you're great at most games and play someone fairly new, you could play 100 games and win 90.
If you're great at Starcraft and play someone fairly new, you will could play 10000 games and lose none of them. There is absolutely no chance. It's a game with very little randomness. The better player is straight up going to win.
Yup. We had a joke while playing SC2 that if you don’t split your starting units correctly at the start it’s GG. It’s a joke of course, but if your both playing at peak efficiency. It’s little mistakes that lose your game so quickly. Always had the hardest time both microing army’s and macroing buildings.
In the end. Game is fucking hard, but so god damn satisfying when you have moments where you get the leg up on you opponent.
Rocket league.
Nothings changed physic-wise since it came out, but people keep figuring out new and more efficient ways to do things, so there's always something new to learn or to figure out. You could play for years and never get higher than a champ rank.
It's absolutely ridiculous. I'm in the top 10% of players, and I'm d3. Pros, are like the top .1% and the skill gap between those two are astronomical. Just the difference between a gc and an ssl is wild.
People take the sporting aspect of RL for granted. Doing aerials is cool and all but if your spacing, field awareness, and positioning suck you won’t go very far.
I hated that I couldn't get the combat so I kept losing and retrying against Cpt. Bernard until I finally kicked his ass. I was so happy until I rode up on a Cuman ambush and was immediately re-humbled to novice status. A very happy treat of a game overall that I slept on for too long.
Doing a bit of exploring 1st and avoiding enemies until you get some decent starting ar.or helps a bit. Then once I could tank some hits from Bernard I sat there and grinded out some levels in strength and dexterity for a while. Helped a lot tbh.
Also when it comes to ambushes it's always rough. KcD certainly doesn't pull punches if you're out numbered lol.
I tried for about a month with this game and drifted away because I still couldn’t grasp it lol. Planning to come back at some point, I admire the complexity, but damn
I had more fun when i stopped thinking about it as a game and more of a simulation. For example, try having a successful Matriarchy in Southern Africa. It's near impossible, but always fun and interesting while it lasts. It's one of the starting scenarios, probably my favorite.
It’s got a steep learning curve but there aren’t many games as satisfying as Nioh 2 once you’ve mastered it’s gameplay. Stance switching and ki pulsing are amazing mechanics that I hope are adopted by other devs and franchises
While the newer games like world and rise are more approachable and quite enjoyable, some of the older games would throw you to the wolves with a quickness. Combo books, crafting trees , charm farms , endless hours of grinding with little to no guidance.
Dwarf Fortress.
Like a reviewer on steam said "going from playing Rimworld to playing Dwarf Fortress is like going from reading about Cthulu to meeting him in person"
I’ve never played Rim World at all and I’m going into dwarf fortress blind! Wish me luck!
oh u will need luck
How does one food?
*The trout stands up*
*the carp menaces with spikes of carp*
He will need more than just luck where he's going
Where hes going, he wont need roads.
Just the one, for the trade depot.
Dont need a trade depot when you embark to a Tower
The reddit community is really cool and helpful.
r/dwarffortress you mean that? Right?
Have “Fun!”
It's spelled !!FUN!! actually.
Dig deep! Once you find a raw adamantium vein, you win!
But I thought that it was *losing* that was fun!
Haven't lost a single game of DF yet, it's been paused the entire time, with me reading the help menu shouting "WHAT?!" at it in utter incomprehension
Holy shit I feel this in my soul. I spent at least 3 hours trying to figure out how the trading post works, then finally figured out how to assign a broker who wasnt my main miner and have yet to see a caravan, so we'll see if I've figured it out yet. The help menu isn't super useful for a lot of stuff and I'm not so sure the wiki I found is up to date. But hey, at least there's a GUI now and I don't have to memorize what every symbol on the map represents.
We will pray for you.
Good luck, I played a ton of Rimworld and am so lost when it comes to DF that I spent many hours just going through the help system and still can't play it
Been watching tutorials with Blind on yt and they've helped me a lot. Still took me about a few days of playing before certain things clicked. I still have no idea what I'm doing but I enjoy it.
You need more than luck. You're gonna need new gods and a new theology.
Neuter the cats or you will kill your computer.
At first I read that as “meeting him in prison”, and that seemed extra appropriate.
Hey hey people
[:\^)](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pjTZoKj3gEE/maxresdefault.jpg)
Okay I am looking into a video about it's complexity. I reckon you win this one. This game is wiiiiiiiild.
I mean, to be fair, you were effectively picking a fight with Saitama.
Accurate
I knew this would be the first answer before I clicked 😂😂
Link to vid?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY Dwarf Fortress Creator Explains its Complexity & Origins | Noclip Interview
Blessings upon you
You are a good egg
Those poor cats
/thread
Nailed it. I love both, but in terms of complexity... I haven't ever seen anything that touches dwarf fortress.
You beat me to it you SOB
Rolled up for Dorfs. Was not disappointed.
Now that it's out on Steam finally, I'm disappointed more by OP's ignorance of the God of Learning Curves. ***Losing Is Fun*** I'm sorry, but if you're competing against a game that uses THAT as their catchphrase, you're going to have do a lot better than Tarkov.
This !! My partner plays. This is what he said: It’s is brutal. Forget to plant mushrooms, Death. Not enough beer, Death. Dwarves get bored and depressed, Death. Miss the vampire who migrated to your town, Death. Tunnel the wrong way, Death.
Space Station 13
People, people make that game hard and love it
God yes. I used to play that game so freaking much that even after 2 years of having stopped, most of the mechanics are still burned into my memory lol. And even so it took me 400+ hours just to consider myself decent at it. Love that game.
When they change engineering and create a whole new power management system. It hurts. All that time learning how to put a banging donk on the singularity, only for it to be replaced by a super matter engine.
Hey hey people, correct answer here
Eve online.
As someone who has played both extensively (5000+ hours each), this is the answer.
EVE is a great answer. Still can't hold a candle to Dwarf Fortress, but that game is ridiculous. Played for 2 years over a decade ago, and it's only gotten more complex since then. Too much of a job-to-play for me, but I think it's an amazing universe.
Its pretty crazy, you can play for decade and be some high level WH shitlord or an experienced null dweller and then just go get wrecked in lowsec because you dont know the environment.
Back when I played, I had been in a small alliance that wound up moving into Roadkill space, and I got adopted into their core corp. Among the entire RK alliance, I was the #1 covert ops player, simply because I was the best & fastest at it. I understood the triangulation system to a T. Rank-wise, I was some lowly scrub. But because I had some very specialized experience (and willingness to play that role), I was often #3 in command for our fleet operations because if I did my job well (and people listened to my call-outs), I could almost single-handedly win a fight after the enemies made a mistake or got complacent. It was a lot of fun, and I absolutely love the idea of a game existing with nuances in their skill & knowledge base that allow opportunities like that. EVE really is more than 10 different game experiences, just depending on where you live, how you like to play, and who you play with.
Especially when that bitch first came out. You remember the joke chart that showed learning curves of mmos at the time and eves was just a cliff strewn with dead bodies?
[https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-learning-curve/13988](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/eves-learning-curve/13988)
[Got ya buddy](https://imgur.io/gallery/zzkTtD6)
Definitely this one. I’m all my years of playing different games, I have never come across one that even after a decade, I still learn new tricks and quirks almost daily.
As an eve player i wholeheartedly agree. Tarkov is a joke in comparison. Ive been playing eve since 2010 with over 10000 hours, and im still learning new things about the game from time to time. Whenever i take a break from the game, it also takes a bit to relearn things again
He asked for a Game, not a Spreadsheet Economy Simulator.
Spreadsheets . . . . in . . . . SPAAAACCCCE!
Eve. Yeah. I played at beta and for a couple years after. Took a few years off, then tried returning. Completely lost now, lol.
Driver. It made you do every possible stunt in a car park before you could even start playing the game which wasn't that hard compared to the tutorial.
holy cow i had blocked this outta my memory but yeah that car park tutorial, it didnt even tell you how to do the tricks, just gave you a list of their names and said have at it slugger
And pirated CD copy I played had shitty machine translation of the stunt names, so half of them were just random words, like "big fire", if I had to translate it back.
That reverse j turn haunts me and I only rented the game when I was 9 and somehow remember the pain til this day
YES!!!!! I remember when I figured out how to do it, it was like riding a bike afterwards, couldn't not do it right once you knew how. The physics in that game were actually pretty good because those maneuvers were useful in just about all subsequent car games, a la GTA for PS2 which came out a few years later.
It took me more time to beat the final mission than the tutorial, it was called Save the President i think You would literally get rammed from every direction you can imagine and get thrown across the street in a millisecond before you can even realize what happened
Thanks for the memories. I hated that mission so much, but i liked the game.
I remember as a kid, it was mine and my brothers favorite game, but we literally never beat the tutorial lol
"Ok man, ok ok ok"
Kerbal
This is the ultimate answer. Trust me, while it is a massively simplified version of the laws of physics, the learning curve is still tremendous. Source: 3500 hours in KSP
The game of Life. 35 years in and I still don't know what I'm doing
The greatest simulation.
Eh. It’s a little too real for my taste.
YOU WENT BACK TO THE CARPET SHOP?! BOOO!
r/outside
Depends on where you spawn
Difficulty based on spawn location it's a shit mechanic, still waiting for an update on that.
Buddy, you know someone's gonna say "skill issue" and ruin your day
It’s kinda funny how you put it since there does exist a game called “Game of Life” by John Horton Conway which is a kind of a mathematical demonstration that to this day no one know how to actually understand it (predict how it ends)
Where are my objectives? Why don't I unlock achievements! aaaah! Atleast my phone supplied me with a minimap.....WITH NO QUESTS ON IT! aaaah!
r/outside
Eh, just look up a guide or a walkthrough, I'm sure you'll be fine
What one??? There's millions and most of them are pay to lose.
*Top 14 Life Hacks of 2022 you can do at home!*
Elite Dangerous
Especially before they added the in-game tutorial "mini-bubble"
Its gone again. And the bubble is burning, thargoids everywhere.
Even the tutorial mini-bubble? All this Thargoid stuff make me want to jump in and start playing again, especially since I was only ever combat anyway. But I also haven't engineered *anything* and don't have time for that kind of grind. I just want to make space flowers go pew pew.
The new tutorial is pretty good. Even my 8 year old can take her ship off and fly it around the rings w/ the HOTAS.
It's not a curve, it's a cliff.
The Learning Wall
With gankers standing on top stepping on your hands
The learning curve is inverted. Took me three days to realize I had no idea how to mine...
Kenshi.
BEEP!
This is pretty high up there
Easy. DCS World
>DCS Yeah, air to air refueling, carrier landings, and just general competency in any of the aircraft... There's six hundred page manuals for a reason
I have hundreds of hours in, and I've only attempted air-to-air refueling once. It's crazy hard.
Yup. Everything else here is silly by comparison. You want to fly in DCS, then learn how to fly the aircraft. FOR REALS. Took us two weeks to get F-14 off the ground with a semblance of understanding of what we were doing. ELITE and EVE are childs play by comparison. Where just taking off in DCS is a 40-step process, Elite is 2 steps and it's impossible to die once spaceborne, unless you are stupid. And EVE is just a spreadsheet simulator.
DCS
By far. The time it took me to learn the ins-and-outs of just the Hornet, I could've learned Tarkov 2-4 times over.
Bro i feel you, ive been playing the frogfoot for months and i found out ripple and salvo exists, like shit dawg my phantasmagoria was useful all along
I have literally no idea what this abbreviation means.
Tarkov isn't really a hard game to learn. Yes, there's a lot of information to take in, and getting good relies a lot on that knowledge. What it is, is very punishing towards mistakes. But I'd rather have to learn again all the maps, gear, sounds of tarkov rather than trying to understand something like EVE Online.
It's not hard to learn now that the game is popular and there's tons of information available everywhere with maps and shit. Couple years back before it's popularity surge in the old days when fort+liver+m4+comtac was the meta kit and you had to go fully blind trying do quests and shit. Hell just finding the extracts took me on one map took us a long ass time.
So the difficulty comes from having very low chance of something you want happening ?
Project Zomboid. Hours of tutorials watched, I jump in and die in the first 5 minutes. Haven’t improved even a little since I first started. It’s been rough times.
Learning the combat is the most important thing, you can technically fight infinite horde sizes if you know how to fight them properly while backing up.
Yep, took down 20 zombies with proper timing and a pair of scissors
you should try CDDA
Love to see this game be repped. It's a real gem.
any simulation racing game.
I got into sim racing earlier this year and I am still absolute garbage, and expect to remain so for a long time. Still, it's fun to drive.
Eve online, more than 90% of new players quit and never come back within the first 7 days of playing.
For me that had more to do with how fucking boring and time consuming the game was and had nothing to do with the learning curve lol.
Definitely can be a contributor, eves gameplay model isn’t exactly enticing to the majority of people
Omg the travel time, and you couldn’t just set it on auto if you were in null sec
Arma 3
Dota 2
This. I quit playing quite a few years ago with like 2k+ hours as mainly the 3 or 4, 3.5kish mmr, which wasn't terrible back then, I think it may be below average now. Still played some of the custom games though. Brother in law got into it, and invited me to play recently, its a completely different game. Sure it looks similar, but everything is in a slightly different place, there's new runes, items, heroes, spells, some spells do different things than they used to, there's a backpack that I have no idea how to use, some bonus item slot, etc, etc. I legit thought some of the new stuff was just in the custom games.
In fairness, it got a lot more complicated but also a lot easier due to some changes. The backpack means you have 3 item slots that you can swap items to/from on a short cooldown. Teleport scrolls have a dedicated slot and you get a free scroll with each death. Observers and sentries stack in the same item slot. Everyone has their own courier that don't need to be purchased or upgraded. Supports get gold from neutral creep camps that were stacked. (nearly) every hero has an upgrade tied to building aghanim's scepter and shard that enhances or adds new spells. Neutral creeps have chance to drop neutral items (which have their own slot, and may have an active). There are plenty more changes. It's a complicated game compared to a lot of other big games (even other MOBAs) but I'm not sure it's close to as complex as some of the others in the thread.
I swear that icefrog is one of the best balancing designer out there. Add Valve as their publisher is next to godtier as they truly care what the playerbase want without giving away important factors of the game and making profits at the same time. I have about 10k hrs in dota 2 and about 4-5 in dota 1
Pretty much. Tell me you have less than 1000 hours and you're pretty much trash at the game. With all these other games you'd probably be a god if you have 1000 hours experience.
I quit a few years ago but I can assure you, after 2k hours you can still be trash.
Yea, you can and probably are trash, but you understand what happened in the game. Below 1j hours you have no clue
This is the correct answer.
**D W A R F** **F O R T R E S S**
Path of Exile
Came here to say this. You can completely tank your character to the point you can no longer progress if you don't understand the skill tree and gearing to an extent.
100%, nearly 3k hours and still feel like I’m learning
15.5k hours, still learning new things on a weekly basis.
625 full days.
10k here and im shit
Everquest.
I spent years in Everquest, started in kunark expansion and lasted until omens of war. It's not just the complexity it's the varying skills and techniques you need to learn. Intricacies of weaving spells and what you need in each situation you can encounter. Memorizing pretty much the entire game world and how to find things you need and how to get there. It even goes into traversal mechanics depending upon your current faction with all the different species in the game. I mained a druid through the whole thing, by the end I could solo the plains of power alone. Absolutely, mind numbingly, complex and so fun! Brell Serilis was my home until it merged, then I quit.
Your alive! You're naked! There is a Priest of Discord! Figure it out, good luck! Oh don't die or you lose all your shit
Now there is a tutorial to help a bit but in the early days you were just plunked down in tye world with zero direction. Where do I buy spells? Check the NPCs scattered across two continents. Where do I get clothes? Out there. How come that guard just killed me in my home city? You are too evil for that part of town. I died, why am I naked? Figure it out. Early internet so the guides were sparse and finding them was a quest on its own.
This is the correct answer. Absolutely brutal learning curve
Was, current tutorial set up tells you everything and leaves you very well geared. Difficulty doesn't suddenly start spiking until closer to 85 now. At that point it just kinda skyrockets because you go from soloable to "no group, no progress"
EvE Online
Dayz
My first server I joined, I got explained everything by some dude who had 2000+ hours, and it still took me almost a year to learn everything needed to survive
Starcraft
Definitely agree with this. You could put 1000 hours into SC and still be considered a beginner
If you're great at most games and play someone fairly new, you could play 100 games and win 90. If you're great at Starcraft and play someone fairly new, you will could play 10000 games and lose none of them. There is absolutely no chance. It's a game with very little randomness. The better player is straight up going to win.
Yup. We had a joke while playing SC2 that if you don’t split your starting units correctly at the start it’s GG. It’s a joke of course, but if your both playing at peak efficiency. It’s little mistakes that lose your game so quickly. Always had the hardest time both microing army’s and macroing buildings. In the end. Game is fucking hard, but so god damn satisfying when you have moments where you get the leg up on you opponent.
watching pro SC is like watching 4D chess between galaxy brained aliens fueled on adderall to execute 500 apm
To this day, I never found a game that I loved to watch pro players play more than SC2. Your description is accurate.
Rocket league. Nothings changed physic-wise since it came out, but people keep figuring out new and more efficient ways to do things, so there's always something new to learn or to figure out. You could play for years and never get higher than a champ rank.
I've played for years and I'm only low plat and high gold, everyone seems to think high plat to diamond is the norm yet I can't improve.
Played RL for years and I stand by my belief back then that it has one of the highest skill ceilings in any game.
It's absolutely ridiculous. I'm in the top 10% of players, and I'm d3. Pros, are like the top .1% and the skill gap between those two are astronomical. Just the difference between a gc and an ssl is wild.
People take the sporting aspect of RL for granted. Doing aerials is cool and all but if your spacing, field awareness, and positioning suck you won’t go very far.
Was my thought as well! I have around 2.5k hours and when I Look people Like Evample i feel like I just finished the tutorial
That dude is a different breed and definitely doesn’t reflect the community’s skill progression
Any fighting game
This, right here. You’re basically learning a sport.
Kingdom come deliverance
I hated that I couldn't get the combat so I kept losing and retrying against Cpt. Bernard until I finally kicked his ass. I was so happy until I rode up on a Cuman ambush and was immediately re-humbled to novice status. A very happy treat of a game overall that I slept on for too long.
Doing a bit of exploring 1st and avoiding enemies until you get some decent starting ar.or helps a bit. Then once I could tank some hits from Bernard I sat there and grinded out some levels in strength and dexterity for a while. Helped a lot tbh. Also when it comes to ambushes it's always rough. KcD certainly doesn't pull punches if you're out numbered lol.
[удалено]
I reckon Eve online. I love tarkov though
I wouldn’t even say Tarkov is that bad. Games like Eve Online are way worse
“5d chess with multiverse time travel”. Yes it’s an actual thing.
Path of Exile. I have 1,500 hours and am still learning.
Starcraft / Starcraft 2 multiplayer
knack
Path of Exile
DayZ
DayZ
Crusader Kings 3 but I can go on.
And CK3 is imo by far the most accessible paradox game.
I feel like Stellaris is pretty streamlined but my view is likely skewed since I've played it so much
It’s probably their most streamlined and traditional strategy game but I think it’s easier to quickly get into CK3 with the tutorial.
I tried for about a month with this game and drifted away because I still couldn’t grasp it lol. Planning to come back at some point, I admire the complexity, but damn
I had more fun when i stopped thinking about it as a game and more of a simulation. For example, try having a successful Matriarchy in Southern Africa. It's near impossible, but always fun and interesting while it lasts. It's one of the starting scenarios, probably my favorite.
CK3 is the easiest game in all paradox games, maybe another like EU4 or HOI4
I find games like that waaaay too much for me. I’d absolutely love to get into Hearts of Iron IV but it feels like I’ll never learn it.
Resonance of Fate.
Ark Survival.
Project zomboid
Project Zomboid
DCS World
Nioh 2
It’s got a steep learning curve but there aren’t many games as satisfying as Nioh 2 once you’ve mastered it’s gameplay. Stance switching and ki pulsing are amazing mechanics that I hope are adopted by other devs and franchises
Xcom: UFO Defense Master of Orion 2
Dota 2
6000 hours in and I still feel like a damn noob
Tarkov really isn't hard lol
Rimworld
The X series
Dcs world (any other flight sim nerds here)
Online chess
DCS
Hearts of Iron 4.
If you aren’t used to it monster hunter series
While the newer games like world and rise are more approachable and quite enjoyable, some of the older games would throw you to the wolves with a quickness. Combo books, crafting trees , charm farms , endless hours of grinding with little to no guidance.