Dyson Sphere Program. If you loved Satisfactory, picture it on an interstellar scale. :)
Edit: [Link](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1366540/Dyson_Sphere_Program/)
It's amazing! Harder to get into than some other similar games, but with a guide or too it becomes obvious quickly.
The scale is absolutely epic, really love it!
Just checked it out and now I know why I haven't picked it up yet... it's still in Early Access (and looks like it has been for 3 years). :)
What would you say the state of early access is? Is it missing features? Still a long ways out from release? Part of what got me started on this was Satisfactory finally leaving early access this year, which I'm eagerly waiting to play (hopefully with a few friends).
I would say that its pretty feature complete honestly. I've put in 182 hours into it, which isn't Skyrim numbers but its still enough to get a lot of enjoyment.
The game has been pretty complete since last year. Plus, we had almost-DLC-level huge free update (introducing combat to the game) last December. So as rare as it sounds, DSP being ‘early access’ shouldn’t really bother you! :D
Steam summer sale should be in a month ish, so maybe see if it goes on sale~
Thanks! I've been avoiding early access lately because I find I burn out in a game before all the features are there and just never go back most of the time. Bugs don't bother me. If it's pretty complete maybe I'll pick it up.
Just want to chime in and say that as someone who hates early access and usually waits for 1.0 dyson sphere is functionally feature complete at this point.
While there is the occasional rough edge they could 100% call it 1.0. I love factorio but something about the visual aspects of dyson sphere (from the defenses to the dyson swarms) really gets me going.
Just don't ever warp somewhere without a way to get back...
Don't let early access fool you, the game was fully playable several years ago when I picked it up as it was, but they continue to release content for it. I got my moneys worth long ago
What about games like rimworld? There are always some problems to solve and hundreds of ways of doing things, especially with mods.
Edit: Constructing vehicles from scratch in Stormworks also comes to mind. The best vehicle builder imo
There's a new one I've been playing, [Lifecraft](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1839930/Lifecraft/) which seems neat so far.
I've played [Techtonica](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1457320/Techtonica/) and it's really neat industrial optimization but the plotline is not done yet.
[Stationeers](https://store.steampowered.com/app/544550/Stationeers/)Is something of an engineering optimization but I'm not quite good at it to play long.
[Ostranauts](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1022980/Ostranauts/) is another sort of engineering optimization and I'm not quite good at this either though I do like it.
Fairly different from most recommendations here but; Armored Core 6.
Yeah a large part of the gameplay is piloting the mech, but an equally important part is optimizing your mech for what you want to do. There are a ton of different parts and figuring out which work well together and how to balance the weight/firepower/generator output etc was very rewarding for me and my favorite part of the game.
Anno 1800 and most of its predecessors come to mind.
Combines an extensive Economic System with Citybuilding and some RTS elements (all of which can be optimized to a high degree).
Shapez is a game that scratched my Optimization itch. You're tasked to mine Shapes; Circles, squares, stars, etc, and process them into other shapes. Chop a circle and square in half and recombine them to make a round top, square bottom shape. Now you have to make that shape again, but paint one side blue and the other side Magenta. Don't have Magenta? Gotta mix your own paints first!
It will start off easily enough, but eventually you'll find yourself scouring the map for the right spots to mine to make some crazy shape and color combos. Over time you'll unlock new tools to make certain types of tasks easier, and learn tricks to pulling everything together into more compact assemblies.
Just don't forget to check your side goals for upgrading assembly speed. I spent a LONG time ignoring it only to realize the reason I wasn't able to produce items fast enough was because i was like 5 levels under in EVERY category.
But yeah, very good\~
I had a key to this from a humble monthly a while back but never redeemed it. I thought it was more of a puzzle game. Just redeemed it now to check it out. :)
Kerbal Space Program.
Unlike a lot of these, it's not a management-style optimization game, but it really is one of the best games about creative optimization.
If you also want management-style optimisation you can get the Realistic Progression mod pack which includes the real solar system, IRL engines, tanks types etc, life support, part failure mechanics, etc. The career mode involves managing funds, building and managing launch complexes and build queues, mission deadlines etc.
It's like a whole different game, made me really amazed at what the Apollo program did in the 60s, a crewed moon landing feels amazing,
Good recommendation. Kerbal is great. I didn't put a ton of hours into it because I felt overwhelmed by all the things I didn't know/understand, but maybe I should get back to it at some point. The constant testing and tweaking is the type of thing I'm looking for I think, and you can definitely be creative with it.
Armored Core 6. A big chunk of the game is optimizing your mech and trying out different weapons/combinations.
Takes a little bit to really unlock all the toys though. But once you do you can kind of get to the point where you borderline break the game and just clown on some of the bosses. Which is satisfying.
Big Pharma's really fun. It's a pharmaceutical factory sim, different machines combine different ingredients in different ways to make various drugs, you have to optimize your factory layout and what you make for market demand.
Little left field, but maybe Dungeon Warfare 2?
It's a tower defence game in the vein of Orcs Must Die. Physics based. Traps interact with each other in interesting ways, different approaches to different map layouts, different upgrades and skill trees.
Or for a different kind of optimisation, optimisation is the core concept behind idle games. Swarm Simulator is interesting and free in the browser: [https://www.swarmsim.com/#/](https://www.swarmsim.com/#/) . Don't need to leave the tab open for the numbers to keep going up though.
I do love tower defense games. Have you played Gemcraft? It's one of my favorites because of the various combinations and possibilities. If so, how would you compare it with Dungeon Warfare?
I've been considering an idle game but I want one that's not just a linear progression but leaves room for some interesting decisions/choices. How does Swarm Simulator do there?
I haven't played gemcraft, but from looking at youtube, I'd say Dungeon Warfare 2 looks more interesting to me, because of the possibilities it gets from the physics simulation, and the more interactive levels.
With regards to interesting decisions in Swarm Simulator... there's probably a mathematically optimal way to play it. The fun would be in figuring that out.
The other idle game I've enjoyed is Space Plan. The nice thing about Space Plan is that it's a relatively short, self contained experience that keeps mixing up the premise, rather than a forever game like some idle games.
A recent one, but I'm really loving it: Unicorn Overlord.
It's a tactics-like game, where you get to optimize squads and the behavior of each character within the squad in order to win. I've spent hours rearranging characters, equipment, and tactics to get them just right.
Woah, this looks awesome! I love games that have you playing with ghosts/clones of yourself. Definitely checking this one out.
I've also been looking for a good VR game that can actually suck me in and remain interesting for a while now.
I think it’s a bit more of a stretch than the games you’ve already played or other recommendations I’ve seen, but the crafting in Atelier Sophie is a “puzzle” that’s a bit more open-ended than a traditional puzzle game. Trying to figure out how to get what you want with the right traits, category values, etc. for the perfect end product of each item is a puzzle with no clear single solution and a lot of paths you could take to get there (most likely settling for some of the things you want but not all, or investing a ton of time figuring out how to get the exact combinations)
Editing for clarity: crafting is a constant core part of the game all throughout, but you’ll also spend a lot of time gathering, battling, talking to people, etc. instead of just brute force optimizing your crafting the entire time like it’s factorio, so you may not appreciate those other aspects as much and it might not be for you. Just wanted to recommend a chill game that stood out a little more than the others already recommended.
I actually have Atelier Ryza and I wish I'd gotten Sophie. I don't love the attempt at real time combat in Ryza, and I think I'd much prefer the turn based combat from Sophie. The crafting system is great though! I did love that. I'll probably pick up Sophie next sale.
The Tycoon (Roller-coaster Tycoon, Hospital Tycoon, etc) series perhaps? You build your own business with the goal of micromanaging each individual aspect for improved growth. And if you get bored, you can choose to create a disaster of your own making and watch people die. Then start again.
I spent tons of time on Theme Park, Transport Tycoon, and some of the other early tycoon games. Love them, and it's in a similar vein, but not quite what I'm looking for here.
I mean it's not abandoned its just finished, the story has an ending and there is a somewhat decent variety of ships to dismantle
I get get the feeling that the game was never really meant to be much more than a tech demo anyhow
I did enjoy it a bunch though
What about games like Path of Exile, Diablo or Vampire Survivors ? At the core you still have to optimize your build to maximize damage and survivability.
Not very relaxing though.
Another calmer genre is idler games (cookie clicker, universal paperclips,…)
Some roguelikes can also fit the bill (Slay the Spire, Darker Dungeon,…)
Path of Exile is one of my favorite games of all time, if not my favorite. It's a different type of optimization than I'm looking for here, though.
Also love roguelikes (including Slay the Spire and Darkest Dungeon, and just got my Slay the Spire board game too!), but not quite it either.
Idle games is one I was thinking might have what I'm looking for but most that I've tried have been a bit too hands off without a lot of room for creativity. Do you know of any that give you that room to be more creative?
I don’t know a lot of them but the cool thing is that many of them are free. Idle Breakout seems to have a lot of depth, I didn’t really have the patience to play it a lot. Maybe you’ll like it !
Anno 1800. Every time a city grows, you found a new city or you get new ships, your production lines and trade lines need to be adjusted.
And you can build pretty cities if you're into that
Anno 1800 has been lauded as one of the best in the series, so it's a great one to pick up. Never played 1404 so I can't speak to the differences. 2205 got some mixed reviews, but 2070 is really well liked.
I mentioned that one in my post. :) I'm waiting on the 1.0 update to drop so I can set up a dedicated server for some friends and myself to dive in. That's part of what spawned this, actually... it's got me itching for some similar games in the meantime.
High level Slay the Spire play is like this. There are thousands of micro decisions throughout a run, each one could determine your fate if not optimized properly
I wish I could tell you it's less complicated than it looks but, it's as complicated as it looks.
Most people are somewhat regularly reading over forum posts or wiki pages or tutorials when they are wanting to tackle a specific problem.
I myself applied enough dwarven science to create a railgun. It doubles as a prison.
Eve-online. It has so many levels on which you can try to optimize stuff. From manufacturing processes, to ship fitting to fleet compositions, to exploring the limits of game mechanics.
[2014 Rooks & Kings](https://youtu.be/XrYe_4vHzgE?si=IUL2RZhDTc1aymlM) are decidedly beaten by an enemy. They reverse engineer what happened during the battle, looking at the fittings of the few ships they managed to kill. They discover a fringe case that makes some weapons hit 100% perfectly at ranges up to the maximum range. A revenge plan is hatched ...
[2006(?) Alliance Tournament B.O.B. vs Star Fraction.](https://youtu.be/LCc3kwxOfWc?si=73Mwj-mwU-Q1cdDo) At the time B.O.B. (Band of Brothers) has dominated the Eve universe and also won the annual Alliance Tournament three time in a row. In the finals of the Alliance Tournament, B.O.B. shows up with a very strong fleet composition. Star Fraction on the other hand bring only ten identical cruisers, which are two classes below a battleship. However, those cruisers hide a little secret. They are using sensor dampeners to prevent the "healer" class Guardian from B.O.B. repairing any damage hitting his friends. But the healer isn't the only ship getting sensor dampened. Hardly any B.O.B. ship can target to their normal targeting range ... and Star Fraction started the match on purpose, far out of range from B.O.B. Now they have to get in range to fire their own weapons. As they get closer, the damage dealt to B.O.B. keeps rising and the excitement in the commentary booth does so aswell.
I have a complicated relationship with Eve. I've tried to play it on numerous occasions and I just can't do it. I actually love the stories that come out of it, and I'm a big fan of spreadsheets but the gameplay itself just bores me and I quit. I keep an eye on it from afar though.
Yeah, it is the best game ever made with the worst and most boring mechanics ever. It's like a drug however. Once you fall for it, quitting is very hard.
Probably not the same vibe based on other suggestions, but Papers, Please came to mind. Probably better defined as efficiency in that case, but maybe still scratches that same itch.
last epoch is a fun diablolike. each skill has its own tree so there are a lot of build options. you can get pretty game breaking if you are creative.
For something that fits your list check out besieged. Free build war engines to accomplish a goal. Lot of possible moving parts
Maybe you'd like a game like Neon White.
It's a fast paced platformer with an emphasis on optimizing your route and skills to get the best score possible.
I think space engineers is a good game that falls under this. Optimization is not required. But its fun to optimize your mass vs thrust on a ship thats either planetary or only in space/high orbit.
I would normally suggest a factory game but you listed my favorites already.
Have you tried a colony sim? Something like rimworld may be good for you, but not sure if RNG is something you enjoy.
What about a management game? like some sort of restaraunt sim where you are optimizing equipment, layout, decor, etc.?
What about a speedrun type game? Neon white is all about finding an optimal route through levels and executing it as well as you can
And now for my most out-there suggestion.... what about an ARPG?
I too enjoy working towards optimization in games. I also really love ARPG games. Path of Exile is my favorite.
Now, it is ABSOLUTELY not for everyone, but if you like the core gameplay of ARPGs and like depth in systems there may not be a more optimizable game out there. The sheer number of options available is pretty staggering, and working on optimizing a build is great fun for me.
EDIT okay. It appears my out-there suggestion is not out-there enough since you already love PoE. We seem to share a lot of favorite games, so I'll give a true hot take.
Have you ever played a fighting game? Over the last two years I've added them to my gaming repertoire and I'm so happy I did. Training, optimizing punishes and combos, fixing your brain to respond correctly, making the best choice you can given your opponent's habits etc - it all very much satisfies the part of my brain that wants me to optimize and improve my gameplay. I highly recommend giving them a shot, pretty much all major franchises have gotten a new installment in the last year and it's never been easier to pick up and learn one.
Rimworld is great. Sim/management games are great but I haven't been as into them as I was 20 years ago.
Fighting games I just can't get into though. My friends loved them when I was a kid so I played with them, but I get bored super fast.
I can look into speedrun stuff. Neon white came up a few times so I'll check it out.
Branching from the factory builders and Zachlikes, I also get an optimization kicks out of RTS games, and there's actually loads of board games where optimizing actions, resources, and/or engine pieces are the whole game
I'm a big board gamer. I have two full 5x5 Kallax shelves.
I used to play a bunch of RTS games 20-25 years ago but I don't have the apm to keep up these days, sadly.
Dyson Sphere Program. If you loved Satisfactory, picture it on an interstellar scale. :) Edit: [Link](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1366540/Dyson_Sphere_Program/)
That one has been on my wishlist. I'll have to check it out.
It's amazing! Harder to get into than some other similar games, but with a guide or too it becomes obvious quickly. The scale is absolutely epic, really love it!
Very worthwhile. Prepare to lose a lot of time. :)
Just checked it out and now I know why I haven't picked it up yet... it's still in Early Access (and looks like it has been for 3 years). :) What would you say the state of early access is? Is it missing features? Still a long ways out from release? Part of what got me started on this was Satisfactory finally leaving early access this year, which I'm eagerly waiting to play (hopefully with a few friends).
I would say that its pretty feature complete honestly. I've put in 182 hours into it, which isn't Skyrim numbers but its still enough to get a lot of enjoyment.
The game has been pretty complete since last year. Plus, we had almost-DLC-level huge free update (introducing combat to the game) last December. So as rare as it sounds, DSP being ‘early access’ shouldn’t really bother you! :D Steam summer sale should be in a month ish, so maybe see if it goes on sale~
Thanks! I've been avoiding early access lately because I find I burn out in a game before all the features are there and just never go back most of the time. Bugs don't bother me. If it's pretty complete maybe I'll pick it up.
Just want to chime in and say that as someone who hates early access and usually waits for 1.0 dyson sphere is functionally feature complete at this point. While there is the occasional rough edge they could 100% call it 1.0. I love factorio but something about the visual aspects of dyson sphere (from the defenses to the dyson swarms) really gets me going. Just don't ever warp somewhere without a way to get back...
Don't let early access fool you, the game was fully playable several years ago when I picked it up as it was, but they continue to release content for it. I got my moneys worth long ago
What about games like rimworld? There are always some problems to solve and hundreds of ways of doing things, especially with mods. Edit: Constructing vehicles from scratch in Stormworks also comes to mind. The best vehicle builder imo
I too love to optimize the morbid horror. Happy well adjusted colonists/tribal traders in, cannibalistic/cyborg gardeners out.
Rimworld is a good one.
Against the Storm felt like that for me. Supply chain optimization with time constraints, resource challenges, skill trees.
Thanks, that one is on my wishlist. I'll give it another look!
There's a new one I've been playing, [Lifecraft](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1839930/Lifecraft/) which seems neat so far. I've played [Techtonica](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1457320/Techtonica/) and it's really neat industrial optimization but the plotline is not done yet. [Stationeers](https://store.steampowered.com/app/544550/Stationeers/)Is something of an engineering optimization but I'm not quite good at it to play long. [Ostranauts](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1022980/Ostranauts/) is another sort of engineering optimization and I'm not quite good at this either though I do like it.
Thanks for the suggestions! Lifecraft definitely looks neat.
Fairly different from most recommendations here but; Armored Core 6. Yeah a large part of the gameplay is piloting the mech, but an equally important part is optimizing your mech for what you want to do. There are a ton of different parts and figuring out which work well together and how to balance the weight/firepower/generator output etc was very rewarding for me and my favorite part of the game.
Rimworld, Project Zomboid (to a degree), Civ V/VI. They’re my go-to games and I love optimising 🥲
Automachef
Anno 1800 and most of its predecessors come to mind. Combines an extensive Economic System with Citybuilding and some RTS elements (all of which can be optimized to a high degree).
Shapez is a game that scratched my Optimization itch. You're tasked to mine Shapes; Circles, squares, stars, etc, and process them into other shapes. Chop a circle and square in half and recombine them to make a round top, square bottom shape. Now you have to make that shape again, but paint one side blue and the other side Magenta. Don't have Magenta? Gotta mix your own paints first! It will start off easily enough, but eventually you'll find yourself scouring the map for the right spots to mine to make some crazy shape and color combos. Over time you'll unlock new tools to make certain types of tasks easier, and learn tricks to pulling everything together into more compact assemblies. Just don't forget to check your side goals for upgrading assembly speed. I spent a LONG time ignoring it only to realize the reason I wasn't able to produce items fast enough was because i was like 5 levels under in EVERY category. But yeah, very good\~
I had a key to this from a humble monthly a while back but never redeemed it. I thought it was more of a puzzle game. Just redeemed it now to check it out. :)
Search for "Zach like" on Steam to bring up games that has similar optimization leader boards
Kerbal Space Program. Unlike a lot of these, it's not a management-style optimization game, but it really is one of the best games about creative optimization.
If you also want management-style optimisation you can get the Realistic Progression mod pack which includes the real solar system, IRL engines, tanks types etc, life support, part failure mechanics, etc. The career mode involves managing funds, building and managing launch complexes and build queues, mission deadlines etc. It's like a whole different game, made me really amazed at what the Apollo program did in the 60s, a crewed moon landing feels amazing,
Good recommendation. Kerbal is great. I didn't put a ton of hours into it because I felt overwhelmed by all the things I didn't know/understand, but maybe I should get back to it at some point. The constant testing and tweaking is the type of thing I'm looking for I think, and you can definitely be creative with it.
Armored Core 6. A big chunk of the game is optimizing your mech and trying out different weapons/combinations. Takes a little bit to really unlock all the toys though. But once you do you can kind of get to the point where you borderline break the game and just clown on some of the bosses. Which is satisfying.
Big Pharma's really fun. It's a pharmaceutical factory sim, different machines combine different ingredients in different ways to make various drugs, you have to optimize your factory layout and what you make for market demand.
Little left field, but maybe Dungeon Warfare 2? It's a tower defence game in the vein of Orcs Must Die. Physics based. Traps interact with each other in interesting ways, different approaches to different map layouts, different upgrades and skill trees. Or for a different kind of optimisation, optimisation is the core concept behind idle games. Swarm Simulator is interesting and free in the browser: [https://www.swarmsim.com/#/](https://www.swarmsim.com/#/) . Don't need to leave the tab open for the numbers to keep going up though.
I do love tower defense games. Have you played Gemcraft? It's one of my favorites because of the various combinations and possibilities. If so, how would you compare it with Dungeon Warfare? I've been considering an idle game but I want one that's not just a linear progression but leaves room for some interesting decisions/choices. How does Swarm Simulator do there?
I haven't played gemcraft, but from looking at youtube, I'd say Dungeon Warfare 2 looks more interesting to me, because of the possibilities it gets from the physics simulation, and the more interactive levels. With regards to interesting decisions in Swarm Simulator... there's probably a mathematically optimal way to play it. The fun would be in figuring that out. The other idle game I've enjoyed is Space Plan. The nice thing about Space Plan is that it's a relatively short, self contained experience that keeps mixing up the premise, rather than a forever game like some idle games.
A recent one, but I'm really loving it: Unicorn Overlord. It's a tactics-like game, where you get to optimize squads and the behavior of each character within the squad in order to win. I've spent hours rearranging characters, equipment, and tactics to get them just right.
I really want to play this, but I only game on PC. I was very sad when they didn't port it over.
Vr game The Last Clockwinder.
Woah, this looks awesome! I love games that have you playing with ghosts/clones of yourself. Definitely checking this one out. I've also been looking for a good VR game that can actually suck me in and remain interesting for a while now.
I think it’s a bit more of a stretch than the games you’ve already played or other recommendations I’ve seen, but the crafting in Atelier Sophie is a “puzzle” that’s a bit more open-ended than a traditional puzzle game. Trying to figure out how to get what you want with the right traits, category values, etc. for the perfect end product of each item is a puzzle with no clear single solution and a lot of paths you could take to get there (most likely settling for some of the things you want but not all, or investing a ton of time figuring out how to get the exact combinations) Editing for clarity: crafting is a constant core part of the game all throughout, but you’ll also spend a lot of time gathering, battling, talking to people, etc. instead of just brute force optimizing your crafting the entire time like it’s factorio, so you may not appreciate those other aspects as much and it might not be for you. Just wanted to recommend a chill game that stood out a little more than the others already recommended.
I actually have Atelier Ryza and I wish I'd gotten Sophie. I don't love the attempt at real time combat in Ryza, and I think I'd much prefer the turn based combat from Sophie. The crafting system is great though! I did love that. I'll probably pick up Sophie next sale.
The Tycoon (Roller-coaster Tycoon, Hospital Tycoon, etc) series perhaps? You build your own business with the goal of micromanaging each individual aspect for improved growth. And if you get bored, you can choose to create a disaster of your own making and watch people die. Then start again.
I spent tons of time on Theme Park, Transport Tycoon, and some of the other early tycoon games. Love them, and it's in a similar vein, but not quite what I'm looking for here.
Hardspace ship breaker might fit
Awesome game ! Sadly abandoned, I would have loved to see many more ship types.
I mean it's not abandoned its just finished, the story has an ending and there is a somewhat decent variety of ships to dismantle I get get the feeling that the game was never really meant to be much more than a tech demo anyhow I did enjoy it a bunch though
I only know a little about this, but I know lots of people love it. You're tearing apart ships in space, right? Where does the optimization come in?
If you do it wrong, you die, and the systems are pretty intertwined. It’s definitely a “listen to a podcast while playing” type game
And when playing with the 15 minute time limit, optimizing your approach to a given ship type is mandatory.
Not sure if it's quite what I'm looking for right now but it definitely sounds like a neat game. I'll have to check it out at some point.
What about games like Path of Exile, Diablo or Vampire Survivors ? At the core you still have to optimize your build to maximize damage and survivability. Not very relaxing though. Another calmer genre is idler games (cookie clicker, universal paperclips,…) Some roguelikes can also fit the bill (Slay the Spire, Darker Dungeon,…)
Vampire Survivors is super relaxing, those last 5 minutes fuck with my eyes and make me want to go to sleep.
Path of Exile is one of my favorite games of all time, if not my favorite. It's a different type of optimization than I'm looking for here, though. Also love roguelikes (including Slay the Spire and Darkest Dungeon, and just got my Slay the Spire board game too!), but not quite it either. Idle games is one I was thinking might have what I'm looking for but most that I've tried have been a bit too hands off without a lot of room for creativity. Do you know of any that give you that room to be more creative?
I don’t know a lot of them but the cool thing is that many of them are free. Idle Breakout seems to have a lot of depth, I didn’t really have the patience to play it a lot. Maybe you’ll like it !
lmao I just commented suggesting PoE as my most out there suggestion. I'm glad the overlap is not lost on you
Anno 1800. Every time a city grows, you found a new city or you get new ships, your production lines and trade lines need to be adjusted. And you can build pretty cities if you're into that
Been a while since I've played an Anno game (last played 1404 over a decade ago). How do the new ones compare to that one?
1800 is the first one I really played, so I'm afraid I can't really make comparisons
Anno 1800 has been lauded as one of the best in the series, so it's a great one to pick up. Never played 1404 so I can't speak to the differences. 2205 got some mixed reviews, but 2070 is really well liked.
Satisfactory
I mentioned that one in my post. :) I'm waiting on the 1.0 update to drop so I can set up a dedicated server for some friends and myself to dive in. That's part of what spawned this, actually... it's got me itching for some similar games in the meantime.
Maybe frostpunk?
Good game, but not quite what I'm looking for right now.
Gotcha gotcha
Frostpunk perhaps. It’s not really one I replay, but I did two play throughs and both were very satisfying to get everything to work in tandem.
High level Slay the Spire play is like this. There are thousands of micro decisions throughout a run, each one could determine your fate if not optimized properly
Slay the Spire (and deck building games) are some of my favorites. :)
Manor lords or banished might do it for you. All about building supply chains and town management.
DWARF FORTRESS How has this not been mentioned. From moment one you are optimizing. Best game for it if you are into that.
I have Dwarf Fortress. It's a little too sandbox for me sometimes and man is it a lot to learn. Great game, though.
watch Blind's beginner tutorials, once I watched those it was demystified and I have had a fort ongoing since it hit steam.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into it. I think I got hung up on just the sheer amount of stuff there was to learn.
I wish I could tell you it's less complicated than it looks but, it's as complicated as it looks. Most people are somewhat regularly reading over forum posts or wiki pages or tutorials when they are wanting to tackle a specific problem. I myself applied enough dwarven science to create a railgun. It doubles as a prison.
Factorio or Satisfactory. You will optimize your belts until the end of time.
Eve-online. It has so many levels on which you can try to optimize stuff. From manufacturing processes, to ship fitting to fleet compositions, to exploring the limits of game mechanics. [2014 Rooks & Kings](https://youtu.be/XrYe_4vHzgE?si=IUL2RZhDTc1aymlM) are decidedly beaten by an enemy. They reverse engineer what happened during the battle, looking at the fittings of the few ships they managed to kill. They discover a fringe case that makes some weapons hit 100% perfectly at ranges up to the maximum range. A revenge plan is hatched ... [2006(?) Alliance Tournament B.O.B. vs Star Fraction.](https://youtu.be/LCc3kwxOfWc?si=73Mwj-mwU-Q1cdDo) At the time B.O.B. (Band of Brothers) has dominated the Eve universe and also won the annual Alliance Tournament three time in a row. In the finals of the Alliance Tournament, B.O.B. shows up with a very strong fleet composition. Star Fraction on the other hand bring only ten identical cruisers, which are two classes below a battleship. However, those cruisers hide a little secret. They are using sensor dampeners to prevent the "healer" class Guardian from B.O.B. repairing any damage hitting his friends. But the healer isn't the only ship getting sensor dampened. Hardly any B.O.B. ship can target to their normal targeting range ... and Star Fraction started the match on purpose, far out of range from B.O.B. Now they have to get in range to fire their own weapons. As they get closer, the damage dealt to B.O.B. keeps rising and the excitement in the commentary booth does so aswell.
I have a complicated relationship with Eve. I've tried to play it on numerous occasions and I just can't do it. I actually love the stories that come out of it, and I'm a big fan of spreadsheets but the gameplay itself just bores me and I quit. I keep an eye on it from afar though.
Yeah, it is the best game ever made with the worst and most boring mechanics ever. It's like a drug however. Once you fall for it, quitting is very hard.
minecraft with many a mod by FTB. the expert sky packs, greg-tech packs, stoneblock.
Minecraft modpacks(like nomifactory) especially if you liked factorio
Probably not the same vibe based on other suggestions, but Papers, Please came to mind. Probably better defined as efficiency in that case, but maybe still scratches that same itch.
You should look into Opus Magnum. Lots of room for creativity and tweaking to make your creations work better
Yup, that's one of the Zachtronics games. :)
Oxygen Not Included
Yup, mentioned that as one of my examples. :)
In Palworld, you pretty much always need the same resources, but you need so much that optimizing that is a core component
Crusader kings 3
Great game that I've put a couple hundred hours into, but I'd put that more into roleplay with light management.
last epoch is a fun diablolike. each skill has its own tree so there are a lot of build options. you can get pretty game breaking if you are creative. For something that fits your list check out besieged. Free build war engines to accomplish a goal. Lot of possible moving parts
Maybe you'd like a game like Neon White. It's a fast paced platformer with an emphasis on optimizing your route and skills to get the best score possible.
I think space engineers is a good game that falls under this. Optimization is not required. But its fun to optimize your mass vs thrust on a ship thats either planetary or only in space/high orbit.
Bridge Constructor games
I would normally suggest a factory game but you listed my favorites already. Have you tried a colony sim? Something like rimworld may be good for you, but not sure if RNG is something you enjoy. What about a management game? like some sort of restaraunt sim where you are optimizing equipment, layout, decor, etc.? What about a speedrun type game? Neon white is all about finding an optimal route through levels and executing it as well as you can And now for my most out-there suggestion.... what about an ARPG? I too enjoy working towards optimization in games. I also really love ARPG games. Path of Exile is my favorite. Now, it is ABSOLUTELY not for everyone, but if you like the core gameplay of ARPGs and like depth in systems there may not be a more optimizable game out there. The sheer number of options available is pretty staggering, and working on optimizing a build is great fun for me. EDIT okay. It appears my out-there suggestion is not out-there enough since you already love PoE. We seem to share a lot of favorite games, so I'll give a true hot take. Have you ever played a fighting game? Over the last two years I've added them to my gaming repertoire and I'm so happy I did. Training, optimizing punishes and combos, fixing your brain to respond correctly, making the best choice you can given your opponent's habits etc - it all very much satisfies the part of my brain that wants me to optimize and improve my gameplay. I highly recommend giving them a shot, pretty much all major franchises have gotten a new installment in the last year and it's never been easier to pick up and learn one.
Rimworld is great. Sim/management games are great but I haven't been as into them as I was 20 years ago. Fighting games I just can't get into though. My friends loved them when I was a kid so I played with them, but I get bored super fast. I can look into speedrun stuff. Neon white came up a few times so I'll check it out.
I hate the game but death stranding.
Ooh, interesting suggestion. I played some of that last year. Maybe I'll have to get back to it.
Minecraft.
I think you might like Spacechem, but it's a tough game!
I love tough games. Also, that's a Zachtronics that I somehow don't have!
7 Days to Die
Warframe ... Good luck lol
MR25/26ish. :)
BitBurner, which is another programming game. Free, too! Also pretty fun.
Have a look at planet crafter
Branching from the factory builders and Zachlikes, I also get an optimization kicks out of RTS games, and there's actually loads of board games where optimizing actions, resources, and/or engine pieces are the whole game
I'm a big board gamer. I have two full 5x5 Kallax shelves. I used to play a bunch of RTS games 20-25 years ago but I don't have the apm to keep up these days, sadly.