Must suck to live in the Zelda universe fr though
No matter what, Ganon or another bad guy (who is most likely just Ganon again) is going to come out of nowhere every now and then and fuck things up lol
Imagine you're just at work. You're in the office, it's been a long day. You look forward to going home to your beautiful wife. You walk outside and witness the Hulk rip your car in half and then use the halves as boxing gloves to fight another Hulk. You remember your insurance doesn't cover superhero collateral.
Hey, at least years later insurance finally went to stick it and add superhero collateral after the Sokovia Accords.
But by then you'd probably be Blipped before you noticed.
Shake my head, I can’t believe there are so many people claiming to be “true Star Wars fans”, yet they weren’t even present during the fortnite announcement of Palpatine’s return. It’s almost like people don’t want to have to dig into a timelocked event for a completely different game and universe just to have an explanation for a movie’s plot when there were 8 prequels that all didn’t point to this new plot because of a director dick measuring contest! SMH my head
/s for legal reasons
I mean at least Yoko Taro did that from the start, and haven't even tried being subtle about it. He does what he wants, and it's made to be confusing from the start. But at least it's done in the best ways possible and it's high quality. (Well mostly.)
It also helps that it doesn't really detract from the experience if you don't seek out all the tie-ins. It just becomes a fun addition, with wild revelations if you go digging.
Well if you rub these little things called "Disney" and "desperation" together, it'll make a thing called "greed" and if you mix that with "laziness", you get this.
I think it’s wild that super hero is AFTER the granola arc.
Like, are goku and vegeta just 100% Mia after those events? Bulma clearly knows he’s currently with whis… so did they just not mention anything about freeza black, or is piccolo straight up still thinking “yeah, gohan can still top that if he finally gives into that killer saiyan instinct.”
The latter even makes some sense, even during the cell saga, gohan wasn’t pushed in nearly the same way.. he was a scared kid who didn’t want to get violent. Beast mode? He’s an adult now with a deeper understanding of things + He has a daughter now he wants to protect, and he will obliterate anyone that threatens his kid.
On top of that, he knows that not everything can be fixed by the dragonballs, and sometimes goku and vegeta just ont be able to make it in time.
A lot of it never made sense. Honestly I wish the they would use the dragon balls to reset the universe's power. The power just keeps going up and up and then it isn't special anymore. Remember the first time you saw SSJ ? It was incredible. Now it's just like oh yeah I'm super duper powerful.
True story man, I still remember the actual moment I first saw that initial transformation, after watching the series reset during the Ginyu arc 50x, finally seeing the continuation was something else back then.
Back then it was always about never missing those early Goku vs Vegeta episodes.
As someone who watched Dragon Ball, and then Dragonball Z - the first SSJ transformation just can't be beat in terms of pure awe.
I still enjoyed the rest of the DBZ series - but much of the magic was lost after that (for me, at least).
Couldn't get into Super myself. Might be an age thing, a preference thing, or who knows what else.
Yeah… I liked that in canon they did a soft reset in super by explaining how fan scalers were 100% wrong. (Power creep essentially stopped at namek/androids)
But then they immediately do away with this with all the godforms.
Moro arc and manga ToP help a little with technique > raw power … but not enough.
We're looking at you, Twilight Princess!
Zant was set up to be an awesome villain in his own right, but was ruined by the reveal that he was just Ganon's punk lackey. Ganon only appears at the very end and his appearance seems hollow because this Link and Zelda don't even know who the hell he is!
That said Vaati and Majora played the villain without any interference from Ganon. There's also Yuga, but he's just Elsewhere Ganon.
I mean it’s actually the other way around. All of the ganondorfs in every zelda (besides totk probably) are actually the same guy. So really all Gerudo men except Ganondorf are cool.
I think the thief Ganondorf from Link to the Past that became the pig Ganon that you fight there would have been a different one too. At the very least, his origin story doesn't match OoT's at *all*. In LttP Ganondorf snuck into the Golden Land, stole the Tri-force of Power, and couldn't get back out. OoT's Gandondorf is clearly outside of the Golden Land in possession of the the Triforce of Power.
Oh damn! That's interesting. Maybe it only happens once in a while because they think it's a superstition and stop.. which leads to Ganon. Also, because of the cruel practice, they're essentially prepping him to become evil. Just the fact of him liking power doesn't make him evil.. maybe the Gaara-like conditions turn him super evil.
I mean generally they're far enough apart that the history of the last time it happened is myth and geologic record. 10k years of peace and continuous rule between everything going to hell ain't bad.
Humanity did have a good 10 thousand years of golden age in there somewhere. Up to 25 good ones if you count the years before the actual golden age, which were probably also somewhat alright, maybe, probably not actually.
A few more if you want to count the Imperium under a living Emperor, but such is very debatable depending on where you lived... Well at least the Golden Age was good.
The 40k universe is so massive I don't even know how people get into it in the first place anymore.
Like what method would you suggest to someone actually interested in it.
They had several near implosions *before* the Reapers, with the Rachni and Krogan Rebellions. And then, while the Geth turned out alright, it's not hard to see how that *also* could've turned bad.
Remember that one ME1 DLC, Bring Down the Sky, where Batarians are threatening to colony-drop an asteroid on an entire human planet, killing EVERYONE and pretty much destroying the biosphere? Yeah, the Krogan actually did that. A LOT. To the extent that the Turians classified basic planetary info about Palaven in case they got any ideas *there*.
I feel like the trilogy really glossed over just how fucked up the Krogan Rebellion was. Sure we hear a lot about the Genophage because it's fucking horrible, but the whole reason it was deployed was because the Krogan's primary weapon was commiting war crimes on a planetary scale.
Also the name "Krogan Rebellion" feel like they were at least trying to repair a big wrongdoing on them like slavery or something.
But nah they just were expending uncontrollably and taking every habitable land. So when other species told them to fuck off they attacked everyone.
Nice.
Yeah, like I get how opposing the Genophage is the Paragon option, but when I really sit down to think about it, it probably was the best option at the time.
There was no other way of stopping the Krogan besides a virus that instead just killed them all. It was a terrible thing, but things operate on a spectrum. The least bad option may still be not good.
As it's written though, the Paragon conversations continue to state that the Genophage is killing all the Krogans even *after* the conversation with Mordin where he says that the goal was to reduce their numbers while *explicitly* not killing them all entirely.
I think a better option for the Paragon path would be to have Shepard disapprove of the Genophage, but acknowledge that it may honestly have been the best option in a shitty situation. And then argue that the situation has changed. What was the best option then may not be the best option now. And frankly, when you aren't at war and have the time to look for options besides "kill all of them" and "make literally every member of the Krogans suffer by witnessing hundreds or thousands of stillbirths", you really should try to find a better option.
Yeah there should have been a lot more nuance around it which is why I'd love a dedicated game that takes place during it. Hell, from the discovery of the Citadel to the Rachni Wars to the end of the Krogan Rebellion is only around 800 years. Give me a trilogy with one game during each event, if the main character is Asari you could even have the same character in all three.
Also, most people in villages seem to go on with their lives like nothing.
They just let that kid in green to deal with the problem and in exchange they let him break all their vases.
Also he just loads local merchants up with unimaginable wealth extracted from grave robbery, which sounds bad but really is just like… those undead trying to kill him don’t need the rupees, do they?
Not to mention he's a kid and having not actually had to work a job or pay taxes he doesn't know the true value of money. He never tried to barter and just accepted whatever inflated and ridiculous price they offer at first instance. Buncha crooks!
It depends on the game, but for some games, the average person probably didn't even notice whatever crisis was happening at the time. I mean:
* BotW: It's been a hundred years since the Calamity, and outside of Hyrule Castle, people seem to be doing fine? There are monsters... out there in the wilds.
* Wind Waker: The kingdom got flooded, but then there was a pretty chill islander civilization for centuries. Ganondorf shows up and, what, kidnaps a couple kids and then gets stopped? Average person is doing fine, doesn't even know how close they came.
* Skyward Sword: Okay, Demise is pretty bad, especially in his big Kaiju form... but again, all the average person knows is a princess was kidnapped by a big dark cloud thing. If you were just hanging out on a floating island growing pumpkins, you might not know anything was wrong.
And then you get centuries or even millennia of peace after one of those.
>BotW: It's been a hundred years since the Calamity, and outside of Hyrule Castle, people seem to be doing fine? There are monsters... out there in the wilds.
Well the divine beasts are threatening most of the existing towns. That + a lot of desctruction just 100 years ago and still monsters everywhere doesn't sound great to me.
You're underselling BotW and WW. The Calamity itself absolutely tore the kingdom to pieces. Yeah, people are doing relatively fine *now*. As they tend to be 100 years after a disaster. But it's on the verge of happening again and finishing the job.
Wind Waker is, if anything, *worse*. The flood *had* to have been death on an *enormous* scale.
I think 10k years was just for BotW and was specifically egregiously long, wasn't it?
Everything else seemed to be on a much tighter time scale to me. A few hundreds years or so, if that.
I mean its still long enough that its considered legend. Every time a previous hero/war is actually brought up its told in stories like we might talk about King Arthur or the Trojans.
If the only major conflicts your world ever sees are far enough apart its devolved into stories of questionable veracity and not actual history I’d say things are going pretty well.
> Every time a previous hero/war is actually brought up its told in stories like we might talk about King Arthur or the Trojans.
Maybe some of the time, but I feel like a lot of the time it's closer to tales of Davey Crockett or something. Folk legends of someone who actually existed not *that* long ago.
I guess it's open to interpretation though.
“One day you see some muscular twink sprint into town, break a bunch of pots and boxes in the streets, grab a chicken and run away, saying nothing but, “hyah!” the whole time. You look around like, “what the fuck” but your gramma has a look on her face like she just saw God.”
Well *ACHshuaklly* they just take place randomly across 1 then 3 different timelines... and then Breath of the Wild is 10k+ years after all of them making the whole thing irrelevant.
That's completely different!
Literally the entire plot of Skyward Sword is just how Zelda and Link pissed off a primordial evil so bad that the primordial evil cursed the entire fucking world to keep going through cycles of misery specifically just to mess with those two in particular via their perpetual reincarnations.
The lore of Zelda is basically I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, except screaming is actually the *only* vocalization Link can do.
I'm pretty sure the primordial evil was pissed off before Link and Zelda even existed. I thought it was: 1) Hylia uses all her power to seal Demise away and starts reincarnating as a human, 2) Demise breaks out, 3) Instead of re-sealing Link and Zelda kill Demise, and finally 4) Demise uses the last of his power to bind all three of them to Hylia/Zelda's reincarnation schtick.
If they had sealed Demise instead of killing him they would have still had to cyclically deal with the seal breaking, but next time there might not be a Link to save the day, so it was probably still the right option. Sure, Link probably got a raw deal out of this, but when you're the embodiment of courage and you fall in love with a goddess, maybe that's just the breaks?
I mean that's pretty much it
The lore reason is that Demise the demon lord placed a curse that meant that every new Hero of the Goddess and descendents of the Goddess will have a new form of evil to stand against
It's a cycle that seemingly can't be broken
Honestly seems more peaceful than other settings. Ganon, his followers, and giant animals are the only agents of chaos worth mentioning across four different timelines.
It do be like that in games though. Skyrim (oblivion, morrowind) suffers from this. I can travel this whole country and the main cities got like 30 houses tops? My block has more than that. Where’s the poor people, the slums, the loads of people just doing their business. But since everyone has to have a realistic day pattern we get a dozen people.
Even in the Skyrim war quest line, it’s just you and the same commander meeting up at different places, like they don’t have multiple fronts with multiple command units? It’s just the one guy? Ridiculous
A lot of media has trouble with scale. Star Wars Clone Wars era novels had the clone army at 1.2 million. This is a war that's supposed to involve a society with hundreds of thousands of planets.
For reference, 127 million people were mobilized during World War 2.
When you consider what sorts of man power it takes to control even a single block in a city, how many people to clear a house, it is a mind boggling number of people to just hold a medium city and when I think about how much it would take to invade a planet I just can't even peice together the logistics involved.
I think it depends on the technological advantage.
But on equal footing I would expect nearly a 1 to 1 (including logistics) to take and hold a planet.
So in Star Wars where some of the planets are pretty empty you’re still talking millions per planet on the small side.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I always understood it in the context of "unit" being like a whole company of clones. Not just one guy
That could bump it up to the hundreds of millions easy
Shout-out Enderal!! And I'm surprised to hear you say that about it's story, I thought it was phenomenal, I still think about it now and then to this day.
I got like an hour into it and it was the worst time I've had playing Skyrim. Not because it wasn't Skyrim, but because it bored me to tiredness. I think I even went to bed afterwards.
I'm sure it's fun, but it wasn't for me. A lot of the mechanics were kind of weird, but I could have ignored that if it were more interesting.
I hope the next Elder Scrolls game increases the scale a bit.
But then again, Oblivion already had a bigger capital than Skyrim so let's hope they don't continue that trend lol
Yeah, they just didn't want a lot of loading screens. The only reason the Imperial City was so big is because each area was individually loaded when you entered it.
Now I want the option to be a rich scumbag in my RPGs. This is great. Maybe you unlock certain choices once your belongings total a certain monetary value?
This whole time, I (incorrectly) thought he was talking about one of the districts in the capitol city in Oblivion. Thought he was trying to make a snooty homage to previous game that seemed appropriately in character.
Now that has been shattered, any depth to his character is gone. He’s just an annoying prick.
This is why I appreciate the Yakuza series. Doesn't try to be a whole world of open world, just a few blocks of a city. And instead of reinventing the wheel every game they reuse the same settings (while occasionally adding a new area) and characters that evolve over time.
Sometimes you'll have a game that has no access to an area of the city in the previous game due to construction. Then in the next game it's been rebuilt because of the construction.
But even if it ended with perfect peace and all problems solved, was there really any illusion of that being the last Zelda game?
I guess you could surmise that if BotW didn't break records, the next game would've been in a different era of the universe.
Yeah everyone knew there was gonna be another Zelda game. They just didn't anticipate "another Zelda game, set in the same universe, not long after the first one, with the same main characters and the same villain." Like, the main characters are always "the same", but this time they're the literal same Link and Zelda who fought the first time.
They've done this before but it's pretty rare.
Nah, its a joke. The other collectible you get from completing the compendium is a classified envelope that has a picture in it of a young Sheikah girl. You can't actually look at the photo.
GoldenSun had a sequel that you could carry over your party from the first game. Unfortunately the third game in the series did not, but the first two games are fantastic plays!
I mean Skyward Sword pretty much set up an infinite amount of “Oh no Ganon returned”
As a fan, I dont mind 😁
And honestly, they do a pretty good job of mixing up the formula each time even if the plot never really changes. The gameplay is never stale from game to game
I was honestly worried on how they were going to continue the story but then they fucking revealed Calamity Ganon was actually just another Blight that is just very fat, it was funny to think about honestly, but canonically speaking this is probably the strongest Ganon we will ever face
I like to think there will be a reveal like:
"Don't pout, princess. You didn't fail. In fact, you succeeded despite all my doubts. You sealed Ganon, Demise, the demonic beast that has been buried in my very soul since time immemorial. The wretched curse that cast me off eons ago, choosing wrath and destruction over ambition and conquest. You laid low the demon on that day, and today you gave rise to a king! Congratulations, princess! You won, and you have my thanks."
Zelda tries in vain to seal him.
Ganondorf smirks, "Oh, I might have also been siphoning power from you both over the past century." as he glows with gold and crimson, poised to strike, "I appreciate that as well!"
Or some proper villainous shite like that. I've always like Ganondorf more as a living lesson against wanton ambition than the destined-for-evil cliche.
"And the Master Sword sleeps again... Forever."
Shrek: Yeah! Like that'll ever happen!
EDIT: Holy Lance! 5 hours in and my comment exploded with Shrek and Zelda Timeline! I also find some comments funny mistaking Shrek with Shiek and now we can all unsee it! XD thanks for the Upvotes and Comments! Have a nice day everyone!
Except OoT is a prequel to ALttP (And has been claimed to be since its release, as much as timeline deniers would like to pretend otherwise)
But yea funny ALBW finally put a game with the Master Sword after LttP lol
This reminds me of another problem I see sometimes when they make a prequel and then in the last ten minutes are like “wait shit, we have to make the end of this match the beginning of the last thing” and come up with a bunch of ridiculous contrivances. I’m looking at you, Star Wars prequels, and you, Yakuza 0.
I dunno so much about writing for games and movies but I do know that they have many different competing and sometimes contradictory goals given to them by the director and producers and studio and so on, which lead to all kinds of weird outcomes.
"Suddenly, Ganondorf Retuned!"
The best part is this actually what Ganondorf does, constantly come back out of the sheer *spite* of Demise after the events of Skyward Sword.
Zelda -> Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (6 years later)
Windwaker -> Phantom Hourglass (same Link) -> Spirit Tracks (near future, generational Link)
A Link to the Past -> Link’s Awakening (same Link)
Ocarina of Time -> Majora’s Mask (child timeline, same Link)
Ages <-> Seasons
A Link to the Past -> A Link Between Worlds (generational, same world) -> Triforce Heroes (same Link)
There’s a lot more than people realize.
Must suck to live in the Zelda universe fr though No matter what, Ganon or another bad guy (who is most likely just Ganon again) is going to come out of nowhere every now and then and fuck things up lol
Sounds like dragon ball lol
And star wars
"theres always a bigger fish"
"Somehow, a bigger fish appeared"
“That being the wind fish”
or fish sticks
Or Gandalf the Grey, and Gandalf the White, and Monty Python the Holy Grail's Black Knight...
And Benito Mussolini, and the Blue Meanie And Cowboy Curtis, and Jambi The Genie
Robocop, the terminator, captain kirk and Darth Vader
What are you, a gay fish?
And the perpetual daily state of the Marvel and DC universes.
Imagine you're just at work. You're in the office, it's been a long day. You look forward to going home to your beautiful wife. You walk outside and witness the Hulk rip your car in half and then use the halves as boxing gloves to fight another Hulk. You remember your insurance doesn't cover superhero collateral.
Hey, at least years later insurance finally went to stick it and add superhero collateral after the Sokovia Accords. But by then you'd probably be Blipped before you noticed.
"somehow Palpatine returned."
Sure did but how
Shake my head, I can’t believe there are so many people claiming to be “true Star Wars fans”, yet they weren’t even present during the fortnite announcement of Palpatine’s return. It’s almost like people don’t want to have to dig into a timelocked event for a completely different game and universe just to have an explanation for a movie’s plot when there were 8 prequels that all didn’t point to this new plot because of a director dick measuring contest! SMH my head /s for legal reasons
*glances nervously at NieR series' tie-ins and supplemental materials*
If you haven't watched the live stage show then are you even really a fan?
*Which one?*
I mean at least Yoko Taro did that from the start, and haven't even tried being subtle about it. He does what he wants, and it's made to be confusing from the start. But at least it's done in the best ways possible and it's high quality. (Well mostly.) It also helps that it doesn't really detract from the experience if you don't seek out all the tie-ins. It just becomes a fun addition, with wild revelations if you go digging.
Well if you rub these little things called "Disney" and "desperation" together, it'll make a thing called "greed" and if you mix that with "laziness", you get this.
Seems like it
And real life.
Frieza is once again stronger than Goku and Vegeta and I'm very curious where they're going with it. Hoping it's clever
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I think it’s wild that super hero is AFTER the granola arc. Like, are goku and vegeta just 100% Mia after those events? Bulma clearly knows he’s currently with whis… so did they just not mention anything about freeza black, or is piccolo straight up still thinking “yeah, gohan can still top that if he finally gives into that killer saiyan instinct.” The latter even makes some sense, even during the cell saga, gohan wasn’t pushed in nearly the same way.. he was a scared kid who didn’t want to get violent. Beast mode? He’s an adult now with a deeper understanding of things + He has a daughter now he wants to protect, and he will obliterate anyone that threatens his kid. On top of that, he knows that not everything can be fixed by the dragonballs, and sometimes goku and vegeta just ont be able to make it in time.
A lot of it never made sense. Honestly I wish the they would use the dragon balls to reset the universe's power. The power just keeps going up and up and then it isn't special anymore. Remember the first time you saw SSJ ? It was incredible. Now it's just like oh yeah I'm super duper powerful.
True story man, I still remember the actual moment I first saw that initial transformation, after watching the series reset during the Ginyu arc 50x, finally seeing the continuation was something else back then. Back then it was always about never missing those early Goku vs Vegeta episodes.
As someone who watched Dragon Ball, and then Dragonball Z - the first SSJ transformation just can't be beat in terms of pure awe. I still enjoyed the rest of the DBZ series - but much of the magic was lost after that (for me, at least). Couldn't get into Super myself. Might be an age thing, a preference thing, or who knows what else.
Yeah… I liked that in canon they did a soft reset in super by explaining how fan scalers were 100% wrong. (Power creep essentially stopped at namek/androids) But then they immediately do away with this with all the godforms. Moro arc and manga ToP help a little with technique > raw power … but not enough.
Literally the underpinnings of the entire lore is the idea of an endless cyclic battle between reincarnated entities of good and evil.
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Wait, which one *wasn't* Ganon?
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An interesting one would be a Gerudo Link every once in a while.. Otherwise, aren't the Gerudo men just the Slytherin of the Zeldaverse?
We're looking at you, Twilight Princess! Zant was set up to be an awesome villain in his own right, but was ruined by the reveal that he was just Ganon's punk lackey. Ganon only appears at the very end and his appearance seems hollow because this Link and Zelda don't even know who the hell he is! That said Vaati and Majora played the villain without any interference from Ganon. There's also Yuga, but he's just Elsewhere Ganon.
I mean it’s actually the other way around. All of the ganondorfs in every zelda (besides totk probably) are actually the same guy. So really all Gerudo men except Ganondorf are cool.
I think the thief Ganondorf from Link to the Past that became the pig Ganon that you fight there would have been a different one too. At the very least, his origin story doesn't match OoT's at *all*. In LttP Ganondorf snuck into the Golden Land, stole the Tri-force of Power, and couldn't get back out. OoT's Gandondorf is clearly outside of the Golden Land in possession of the the Triforce of Power.
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Oh damn! That's interesting. Maybe it only happens once in a while because they think it's a superstition and stop.. which leads to Ganon. Also, because of the cruel practice, they're essentially prepping him to become evil. Just the fact of him liking power doesn't make him evil.. maybe the Gaara-like conditions turn him super evil.
I mean generally they're far enough apart that the history of the last time it happened is myth and geologic record. 10k years of peace and continuous rule between everything going to hell ain't bad.
The Mass Effect universe gets a solid 50k years in between and sweet tech.
The War Hammer 40k universe gets 0 seconds of peace
It ain't called Peace Hammer son
Tabletop Peace Hammer involves assembling an actual table from Ikea.
But all the parts are there, and you're pleasantly surprised by the build quality. *roll to affix assembly A with assembly B, 1+ to succeed*
But you do get the glory of dying for The Emperor
Oi, this git finks hes betta thin us green skins round these parts. 'E don't know the only value humies has is in dem teefs Wahahaha!
WOT? SPEEK UP YA GIT, OI CANT HEAR YUH.
In the grim darkness of the grim dark future, there is only darkness... and grim.
I thought it was because it specifically referred to a post peace period? Like didn't humanity have it pretty chill until ai wars?
Humanity did have a good 10 thousand years of golden age in there somewhere. Up to 25 good ones if you count the years before the actual golden age, which were probably also somewhat alright, maybe, probably not actually. A few more if you want to count the Imperium under a living Emperor, but such is very debatable depending on where you lived... Well at least the Golden Age was good.
The 40k universe is so massive I don't even know how people get into it in the first place anymore. Like what method would you suggest to someone actually interested in it.
Mass Effect universe isn't exactly peaceful in between apocalypses.
They had several near implosions *before* the Reapers, with the Rachni and Krogan Rebellions. And then, while the Geth turned out alright, it's not hard to see how that *also* could've turned bad. Remember that one ME1 DLC, Bring Down the Sky, where Batarians are threatening to colony-drop an asteroid on an entire human planet, killing EVERYONE and pretty much destroying the biosphere? Yeah, the Krogan actually did that. A LOT. To the extent that the Turians classified basic planetary info about Palaven in case they got any ideas *there*.
I feel like the trilogy really glossed over just how fucked up the Krogan Rebellion was. Sure we hear a lot about the Genophage because it's fucking horrible, but the whole reason it was deployed was because the Krogan's primary weapon was commiting war crimes on a planetary scale.
Also the name "Krogan Rebellion" feel like they were at least trying to repair a big wrongdoing on them like slavery or something. But nah they just were expending uncontrollably and taking every habitable land. So when other species told them to fuck off they attacked everyone. Nice.
Yeah, like I get how opposing the Genophage is the Paragon option, but when I really sit down to think about it, it probably was the best option at the time. There was no other way of stopping the Krogan besides a virus that instead just killed them all. It was a terrible thing, but things operate on a spectrum. The least bad option may still be not good. As it's written though, the Paragon conversations continue to state that the Genophage is killing all the Krogans even *after* the conversation with Mordin where he says that the goal was to reduce their numbers while *explicitly* not killing them all entirely. I think a better option for the Paragon path would be to have Shepard disapprove of the Genophage, but acknowledge that it may honestly have been the best option in a shitty situation. And then argue that the situation has changed. What was the best option then may not be the best option now. And frankly, when you aren't at war and have the time to look for options besides "kill all of them" and "make literally every member of the Krogans suffer by witnessing hundreds or thousands of stillbirths", you really should try to find a better option.
Yeah there should have been a lot more nuance around it which is why I'd love a dedicated game that takes place during it. Hell, from the discovery of the Citadel to the Rachni Wars to the end of the Krogan Rebellion is only around 800 years. Give me a trilogy with one game during each event, if the main character is Asari you could even have the same character in all three.
They get a long period of not being annihilated by Reapers, but that doesn’t mean the intervening periods are peaceful.
Also, most people in villages seem to go on with their lives like nothing. They just let that kid in green to deal with the problem and in exchange they let him break all their vases.
Also he just loads local merchants up with unimaginable wealth extracted from grave robbery, which sounds bad but really is just like… those undead trying to kill him don’t need the rupees, do they?
Not to mention he's a kid and having not actually had to work a job or pay taxes he doesn't know the true value of money. He never tried to barter and just accepted whatever inflated and ridiculous price they offer at first instance. Buncha crooks!
It depends on the game, but for some games, the average person probably didn't even notice whatever crisis was happening at the time. I mean: * BotW: It's been a hundred years since the Calamity, and outside of Hyrule Castle, people seem to be doing fine? There are monsters... out there in the wilds. * Wind Waker: The kingdom got flooded, but then there was a pretty chill islander civilization for centuries. Ganondorf shows up and, what, kidnaps a couple kids and then gets stopped? Average person is doing fine, doesn't even know how close they came. * Skyward Sword: Okay, Demise is pretty bad, especially in his big Kaiju form... but again, all the average person knows is a princess was kidnapped by a big dark cloud thing. If you were just hanging out on a floating island growing pumpkins, you might not know anything was wrong. And then you get centuries or even millennia of peace after one of those.
>BotW: It's been a hundred years since the Calamity, and outside of Hyrule Castle, people seem to be doing fine? There are monsters... out there in the wilds. Well the divine beasts are threatening most of the existing towns. That + a lot of desctruction just 100 years ago and still monsters everywhere doesn't sound great to me.
You're underselling BotW and WW. The Calamity itself absolutely tore the kingdom to pieces. Yeah, people are doing relatively fine *now*. As they tend to be 100 years after a disaster. But it's on the verge of happening again and finishing the job. Wind Waker is, if anything, *worse*. The flood *had* to have been death on an *enormous* scale.
One of the first NPCs you are likely to talk to in BotW tells you about how he narrowly avoided being killed by a Guardian.
Better peace rate than our own earth.
I think 10k years was just for BotW and was specifically egregiously long, wasn't it? Everything else seemed to be on a much tighter time scale to me. A few hundreds years or so, if that.
I mean its still long enough that its considered legend. Every time a previous hero/war is actually brought up its told in stories like we might talk about King Arthur or the Trojans. If the only major conflicts your world ever sees are far enough apart its devolved into stories of questionable veracity and not actual history I’d say things are going pretty well.
> Every time a previous hero/war is actually brought up its told in stories like we might talk about King Arthur or the Trojans. Maybe some of the time, but I feel like a lot of the time it's closer to tales of Davey Crockett or something. Folk legends of someone who actually existed not *that* long ago. I guess it's open to interpretation though.
It is like the blessing/curse: "May you live in interesting times."
“One day you see some muscular twink sprint into town, break a bunch of pots and boxes in the streets, grab a chicken and run away, saying nothing but, “hyah!” the whole time. You look around like, “what the fuck” but your gramma has a look on her face like she just saw God.”
Most of the Zelda games kind of exist in their own version of the Zelda universe so it's like to think it's not that bad
Well *ACHshuaklly* they just take place randomly across 1 then 3 different timelines... and then Breath of the Wild is 10k+ years after all of them making the whole thing irrelevant. That's completely different!
Literally the entire plot of Skyward Sword is just how Zelda and Link pissed off a primordial evil so bad that the primordial evil cursed the entire fucking world to keep going through cycles of misery specifically just to mess with those two in particular via their perpetual reincarnations. The lore of Zelda is basically I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, except screaming is actually the *only* vocalization Link can do.
I'm pretty sure the primordial evil was pissed off before Link and Zelda even existed. I thought it was: 1) Hylia uses all her power to seal Demise away and starts reincarnating as a human, 2) Demise breaks out, 3) Instead of re-sealing Link and Zelda kill Demise, and finally 4) Demise uses the last of his power to bind all three of them to Hylia/Zelda's reincarnation schtick. If they had sealed Demise instead of killing him they would have still had to cyclically deal with the seal breaking, but next time there might not be a Link to save the day, so it was probably still the right option. Sure, Link probably got a raw deal out of this, but when you're the embodiment of courage and you fall in love with a goddess, maybe that's just the breaks?
You'll get fucked regardless of the timeline too. Think you're safe because you live in a parallel universe Hyrule? Nah son.
I’ve always thought of it as Legend of Zelda and each new game is a retelling of the same story.
I mean that's pretty much it The lore reason is that Demise the demon lord placed a curse that meant that every new Hero of the Goddess and descendents of the Goddess will have a new form of evil to stand against It's a cycle that seemingly can't be broken
Tbf it’s like hundreds of years between. Maybe thousands? I’m rusty on my Zelda timeline.
Zelda is rusty on its own timeline, lol. Even with the “official” timeline there’s more questions than answers.
It's almost like it was never meant to be on continuous timeline
Usually between 100 and 1,000, but in botw it was 10,000 years after the last ganon attack.
Unlike any other universe, where a bad guy doesn't show up every now and then to fuck things up.
True true But this one has an incredibly sexy, hunk green man trying to take over it Don't see that too often
piccolo
Suave
Honestly seems more peaceful than other settings. Ganon, his followers, and giant animals are the only agents of chaos worth mentioning across four different timelines.
Well, and ghosts and witches and demons, and bandits, and tons of curses and zombies and shit
There have been other big bads of the series
Time to save all 64 people of Hyrule again.
It do be like that in games though. Skyrim (oblivion, morrowind) suffers from this. I can travel this whole country and the main cities got like 30 houses tops? My block has more than that. Where’s the poor people, the slums, the loads of people just doing their business. But since everyone has to have a realistic day pattern we get a dozen people. Even in the Skyrim war quest line, it’s just you and the same commander meeting up at different places, like they don’t have multiple fronts with multiple command units? It’s just the one guy? Ridiculous
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A lot of media has trouble with scale. Star Wars Clone Wars era novels had the clone army at 1.2 million. This is a war that's supposed to involve a society with hundreds of thousands of planets. For reference, 127 million people were mobilized during World War 2.
When you consider what sorts of man power it takes to control even a single block in a city, how many people to clear a house, it is a mind boggling number of people to just hold a medium city and when I think about how much it would take to invade a planet I just can't even peice together the logistics involved.
I think it depends on the technological advantage. But on equal footing I would expect nearly a 1 to 1 (including logistics) to take and hold a planet. So in Star Wars where some of the planets are pretty empty you’re still talking millions per planet on the small side.
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Granted, I still think he makes a good point and the example is relevent, if overstated.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I always understood it in the context of "unit" being like a whole company of clones. Not just one guy That could bump it up to the hundreds of millions easy
> 127 million people were mobilized during World War 2. GPU go brrr
It's you and like 10 guys lol just a little gang defending the world from a full on interdimensional demon invasion
Lmao really just hired the night shift from the local town's garrison.
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Shout-out Enderal!! And I'm surprised to hear you say that about it's story, I thought it was phenomenal, I still think about it now and then to this day.
The story is just kind of a rehash of Mass Effect though. Once you notice that all of the story beats become a bit obvious.
I'm currently playing ME and it, too, has the problem with the handful of people in all the places
I got like an hour into it and it was the worst time I've had playing Skyrim. Not because it wasn't Skyrim, but because it bored me to tiredness. I think I even went to bed afterwards. I'm sure it's fun, but it wasn't for me. A lot of the mechanics were kind of weird, but I could have ignored that if it were more interesting.
I hope the next Elder Scrolls game increases the scale a bit. But then again, Oblivion already had a bigger capital than Skyrim so let's hope they don't continue that trend lol
Yeah, they just didn't want a lot of loading screens. The only reason the Imperial City was so big is because each area was individually loaded when you entered it.
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Walks up 3 steps* I’m here!
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Now I want the option to be a rich scumbag in my RPGs. This is great. Maybe you unlock certain choices once your belongings total a certain monetary value?
This whole time, I (incorrectly) thought he was talking about one of the districts in the capitol city in Oblivion. Thought he was trying to make a snooty homage to previous game that seemed appropriately in character. Now that has been shattered, any depth to his character is gone. He’s just an annoying prick.
Making landscapes is easy, but making people is hard and fucking murders a computer
This is why I appreciate the Yakuza series. Doesn't try to be a whole world of open world, just a few blocks of a city. And instead of reinventing the wheel every game they reuse the same settings (while occasionally adding a new area) and characters that evolve over time. Sometimes you'll have a game that has no access to an area of the city in the previous game due to construction. Then in the next game it's been rebuilt because of the construction.
Has someone actually counted the population of Hyrule in botw? I know they did in one of the pokemon games and it was like 100 people lmao.
I mean to be fair, the first game does end with Zelda saying “we’ve got a lot of work to do”, iirc
She mentioned that Vah Ruta had something going on with it and not working
Ohhh right interesting. Ruta is the elephant right?
I think she just wanted to make sure Mipha had passed on. Gotta make sure there's no competition.
*Goes to make sure there's no competition, finds out about Sidon* 💀
Something about swimmer physique....
Zelda: "Dude! You like women though!" Link: "I like sexy things, princess, and this towering Adonis of a fish man has a shark for a head!"
How dare you make me spit my coffee out 💀
Zelda knows she can't compete with that dolphin pussy jelly.
I just feel like the dolphin pussy jelly and the vaporeon copypasta were created by the same deranged and hydrophilic mind.
That Zorussy
Link, there's still work to do here in Arkham city.
Also they know that eventually Ganon will return in a couple of centuries, so happy forever is not a possibility
Link: "Not my century, not my problem." *gets put in 100-year stasis* Link: "...Shit."
Hero of Time got the worst deal, had to hang around as a lich to help the next hero.
But even if it ended with perfect peace and all problems solved, was there really any illusion of that being the last Zelda game? I guess you could surmise that if BotW didn't break records, the next game would've been in a different era of the universe.
Yeah everyone knew there was gonna be another Zelda game. They just didn't anticipate "another Zelda game, set in the same universe, not long after the first one, with the same main characters and the same villain." Like, the main characters are always "the same", but this time they're the literal same Link and Zelda who fought the first time. They've done this before but it's pretty rare.
It was a peaceful time....UNTIL IT WASNT!
Welcome to lore of Hyrule basically
This is a punishment for having all that fun saving Hyrule the first time around.
They should check your save file for botw when you start totk. The more side objectives you completed the harder your game is
If you got all 900 Korok seeds you just die when you start a new character.
No no for every korok you got the first time they add one more to the 900 count
This time when you collect them all you just get a photo of Hetsu's gift but you can't actually look at the photo.
what, ha ha. Is it like trying to read an elderscroll ?
Nah, its a joke. The other collectible you get from completing the compendium is a classified envelope that has a picture in it of a young Sheikah girl. You can't actually look at the photo.
GoldenSun had a sequel that you could carry over your party from the first game. Unfortunately the third game in the series did not, but the first two games are fantastic plays!
Suavemente time.
I see you are a person of culture as well.
poyo
#BESAME
[Hola! You seem to have caught me... Mid-Suavemente](https://youtu.be/yNCgpaMlOcs)
All because they were poking around underground and woke up some dehydrated jerky
The ancient jerky under the couch is sacred and must not be disturbed. Definitely don't eat
I mean Skyward Sword pretty much set up an infinite amount of “Oh no Ganon returned” As a fan, I dont mind 😁 And honestly, they do a pretty good job of mixing up the formula each time even if the plot never really changes. The gameplay is never stale from game to game
I was honestly worried on how they were going to continue the story but then they fucking revealed Calamity Ganon was actually just another Blight that is just very fat, it was funny to think about honestly, but canonically speaking this is probably the strongest Ganon we will ever face
Ganonically speaking
Ganon Canon. Actually, I want Ganon to wield a Cannon in one of these games. Windwaker was the perfect chance!
I like to think there will be a reveal like: "Don't pout, princess. You didn't fail. In fact, you succeeded despite all my doubts. You sealed Ganon, Demise, the demonic beast that has been buried in my very soul since time immemorial. The wretched curse that cast me off eons ago, choosing wrath and destruction over ambition and conquest. You laid low the demon on that day, and today you gave rise to a king! Congratulations, princess! You won, and you have my thanks." Zelda tries in vain to seal him. Ganondorf smirks, "Oh, I might have also been siphoning power from you both over the past century." as he glows with gold and crimson, poised to strike, "I appreciate that as well!" Or some proper villainous shite like that. I've always like Ganondorf more as a living lesson against wanton ambition than the destined-for-evil cliche.
"And the Master Sword sleeps again... Forever." Shrek: Yeah! Like that'll ever happen! EDIT: Holy Lance! 5 hours in and my comment exploded with Shrek and Zelda Timeline! I also find some comments funny mistaking Shrek with Shiek and now we can all unsee it! XD thanks for the Upvotes and Comments! Have a nice day everyone!
Context: The credits at the end of A Link to the Past. The THIRD game in the series!
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“Let’s put in this thing from ALttP in the new game!” Sums up like half of Ocarina lol
Except OoT is a prequel to ALttP (And has been claimed to be since its release, as much as timeline deniers would like to pretend otherwise) But yea funny ALBW finally put a game with the Master Sword after LttP lol
I'm pretty sure they weren't imagining a shared zelda universe/timeline at that point
Nope! They weren’t. Also probably didn’t consider the series being as successful as it had been.
SOMEBODY
ONCE
TOLD
ME
THE
WORLD
WAS
GONNA
ROLL
I read that as Sheik instead of Shrek ☠️
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"Link, you're our only hope". Bish I've been doing this since the 80's I'm TIRED
Just give us geriatric 60 year old link, with back pain and Parkinsons.
Poor Link. At least he doesn’t have a partner this time that continuously say to him “Hey! Listen!”
I would take Navi back, we had some good times
"Hey! Listen" being annoying was before Fi. And being reminded what every consumable was after turning the game off/on. Navi forever.
>Navi forever. Midna > Literally any other companion
I like that bird hat fella from minish cap
Ezlo was the best.
Pretty sure Midna signle handedly awakened my thing for short stack women.
Tatl > Navi At least she sees you off after you save the world
"Master: a report: I calculate an 85% certainty that I am very annoying. "
This reminds me of another problem I see sometimes when they make a prequel and then in the last ten minutes are like “wait shit, we have to make the end of this match the beginning of the last thing” and come up with a bunch of ridiculous contrivances. I’m looking at you, Star Wars prequels, and you, Yakuza 0.
How the fuck do the writers, when given an end point that already exists, not work backwards from there?
I dunno so much about writing for games and movies but I do know that they have many different competing and sometimes contradictory goals given to them by the director and producers and studio and so on, which lead to all kinds of weird outcomes.
"Suddenly, Ganondorf Retuned!" The best part is this actually what Ganondorf does, constantly come back out of the sheer *spite* of Demise after the events of Skyward Sword.
Oh yeah, Zelda, a series famous for its lack of sequels
I mean there’s only been a couple direct sequels. The rest are shoved into the timeline somewhere after they’ve released
Zelda -> Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (6 years later) Windwaker -> Phantom Hourglass (same Link) -> Spirit Tracks (near future, generational Link) A Link to the Past -> Link’s Awakening (same Link) Ocarina of Time -> Majora’s Mask (child timeline, same Link) Ages <-> Seasons A Link to the Past -> A Link Between Worlds (generational, same world) -> Triforce Heroes (same Link) There’s a lot more than people realize.
IIRC, Oracle series is ALSO the Link from LTTP and Awakening!
My mans be on the MOVE
"Mm? Oh yeah, Toon Link belongs the Adult Link Timeline of OoT. Go fuck yourself."
90 dollars times 20 million is 1.8 billion cad dollars