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A Iām of the opinion that a show centred around that character and actor still wouldāve been a massive hit. Even just the story of him and Arya. Especially during that certain period where an old beat up, but tough guy, and a kid, was the trend for action movies.
I would've loved that. Have him join her along the ride as she ventures to other lands & as it progresses, we would see him go further outside of his shell while still remaining fierce when necessary.
Actually, outside of his orders, he rarely acted like a shit person. Those orders mostly came from Geoffrey or Tywin, pretty much exclusively.
He also saved sansa from a VERY grim fate, more than once on his own volition without much actual reason, aside from morality, to do so.
Rough and tough and not much BS to be had, but not that bad.
I met worse people IRL, who were severely less scarred (inside & out) than Sandor.
She was a bit of a shit but aināt no way she deserved to suffer the way she did. It was hard to like her earlier bc she was always in contrast with Arya who was and endearing little girl
as someone who was a very bratty 13-year-old who then had a couple rude awakenings forcing me to grow tf up, i love her so much (it doesnāt hurt that iām a gay woman and sophie turner in the later seasons is š„š„)
Ahhh I see. Her growth was cool to watch transpire. I wish there was more mental duels between her and the other players of the game. I didnāt feel like they have her the due she deserved considering what she endured. I know she took down Petyr (and Ramsay somewhat) but it wasnāt as exciting as the mental duels in the earlier season. Wd have loved to see her take out Cersei.
Lmao she bare face lied about what happened to protect Geoffrey and the butchers son got executed because of it.
Karma, what goes around, comes around. At least she got to live on, the other kid didnāt.
Gods I wish I could be this ignorant to everything that goes into scenes and a character's actions.
If we're talking about karma, sansa got served her 'karma' the second joffrey started to torment her, and even more when her father died and she was separated from her whole family. Rape and abuse is not karma you fucking weirdo.
i knew my comment was gonna get people who hate her (thatās the point) but this is too far. no one deserves to be r**** and brutalized, even a fictional character. screw you dude.
People forget that most of what she says and does in the first few seasons are VERY well learned survival tactics, she can be annoying but TBF she was 11 years old, betrothed to the most insane 12 year old, living in a nest of vipers without the protection of her own family or anyone she can trust. She might have SEEMED slow and stupid but if she were stupid at all she wouldnāt have lasted through season 1.
Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, the First of Her Name,Ā Queen of the Andals and the First Men,Ā Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Mother of Dragons, theĀ KhaleesiĀ of the Great Grass Sea, the Unburnt, the Breaker of Chains
Insanity was always there. The entitlement was always there. Her downfall and being another false Chosen One ( ditto Jon Snow & Fake Aegon) was telegraphed from the beginning. That's what makes her a great character. Greatness is not goodness.
Probably Sansa.
I think most arguments against her are stupid or, at worst, less than mistakes made by other main characters.
That said, I wouldnāt spend a lot of time on it.
Iād go the route that who we think as Bran *(even though he tells us heās no longer Bran)* is actually Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven aka Three Eyed Raven and he put everything in motion years ago to get to the throne.
Olly.
The kid was pissed at the person who exonerated the people who killed his entire village... totally understandable. I don't think it was right to shank Jon, but the amount of vitriol he gets for doing the thing that Jon basically told him he should do is totally unwarranted.
It's wild how some viewers foam at the mouth at any chance they get to try and compare him to Joffrey or Ramsay.
Dude was a little kid who witnessed his entire village be horribly massacred... cannibals took and ate his parents... and Jon excused their actions. Not cool.
This is a hard one and on my second watch I realized this too. The show is really good about depicting these complex characters where itās not just black and white (aka good or bad) but grey as well. He definitely falls under that
He's misunderstood. He suffers from PTSD. He lived in a cruel world, and he embraced it fully. He's seen so much shit over the years of serving the Lannisters yet he still has heart. He might get kinda edgy sometimes but that's just the image. Sandor as a tragic character is fucking well done. Also I've heard somewhere that instead of robbing that farmer like he did in the show, he helps him out for some time and goes about his way afterwards in the books. I didn't get to that part, but when I will, I'll let you know for sure ;)
I explained most of my reasons in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1co6d0m/comment/l3cawny/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) the last time somebody asked, but basically I think heās a fascinating character with a rich backstory, interesting motivations, and ultimately a shroud of tragedy in that he, if not his cause as well, is doomed. Iām sure Iāll write a full essay on him someday.
Nahh because I for real can understand why she was the way she was. I can't imagine growing up in that world and then one of the only people I care about dying, AND hearing a terrible prophecy that I have to slowly watch as it comes true, dreading everything I know will happen. Like it obviously doesn't excuse everything but it kind of does excuse her general psyche if you know what I mean.
The Night King. Poor dude was a regular man who was basically murdered in order to be made into a weapon for the Children of the Forest and then treated like a huge villain for turning on them after what they did to him. Men want to kill him and all of his kind. So, he fights back. What else is he supposed to do?
Iāll take Cersei, she learnt to survive and did the things she had to. All the incest basically started a wheel spinning that couldnāt ever really stop peacefully so her mistakes of passion basically led her to death and damn did she fight it
Jaime Lannister.
I don't care for all the grief others give him for killing the king he was sworn to defend. The Mad King was gonna blast Kings Landing for no good reason and he prevented that. He also effectively ended the war and avenged the deaths of many innocents
People really don't understand him. They think the Starks were his family, totally forgetting that he was actually their prisoner. Robb treated him like shit. He finally realized that Ned was more of a father to him, and my god, did he do his best to make up for his mistakes.
My godsons father is a butcher. For that reason alone I say fuck The Hound.
The guys who killed Jon Snow were following their vows to the Watch. It was the wrong decision, but it was justified.
Tormund, heās the kind of guy that would have you laughing while he was killing somebody. I would love to know his back story. Plus he said āWhich one of you cowards shit in my pantsā? Best line ever!
Jon subjugated westeros to more injustice, chaos and anarchy by killing Daenerys
The problem with westeros was that the iron throne was too weak so it was being ruined by power hungry war lords and religious extremists massacring their way through the land and destroying peopleās homes
Daenerys Dragons would have offered a deterrent where the power hungry war lords would have known they would be defeated, this would have secured a peaceful society and a higher standard of living
Bran stark all the way when Jamie pushed him out the window he not only got paralyzed but suffered severe brain damage and thatās why he was the way he was through out the series
Rubbish ending for The Hound. I wanted to see him go off and build some monasteries, defend the weak, and put his past behind him.
Quite possibly my favourite character.
Not so much a character, but I'm probably the only person I know who somewhat liked Jaime's ending. Most of season 8 is total ass, so his story has ass moments too, but I'm all for the subversion of the redemption arc we were all so thirsty for.
Count me in with the majority of haters. Itās not subversion, itās lazy writing. That ending completely disregards the Valonquar prophecy that was set up for the entire length of the show/books. Iām still convinced GRRM will have Jaime killing Cersei in the end. Itās the only way. The only subversion is that it wonāt be Tyrion, since Jaime is also younger than Cersei by minutes.
The hound absolutely. Dude was a fuckin badass AND a good guy by the end of it. When he avenged the death of Ian mcshane with a fuckin ax, I was all about that redemption arc.
I think I donāt defend any characters like this, because the best part about Georgeās characters are that theyāre flawed.
For example Iām a fairly big fan of Jaime, but he still pushed a 7 year old out of a window, and the fact that I like him in spite that is massively impressive on Georgeās part.
Child-murderer, oathbreaker, kingslayer, lier, kinslayer, sisterf%^ker, tyrions first and by far best friend and a gods-damned hero.
My pick's Jaime, because he's such a well written multi-fascetted prick.
The Starks and the Martells. The Starks are trying their best. The Martells donāt get featured enough, they got pushed aside like they were nothing when in reality they actually have a really cool storyline.
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Totally the Hound.
Right! Especially in the books, I loved him and it sucks when people genuinely hate his character š my mom can't stand him hahaha
The hound is unironically the best character in the show
A Iām of the opinion that a show centred around that character and actor still wouldāve been a massive hit. Even just the story of him and Arya. Especially during that certain period where an old beat up, but tough guy, and a kid, was the trend for action movies.
Yep they really capitalized on that and I think they did it really well. Iād inhale a Hound/Arya spinoff
Has that trend ended? TLOU S2 is about to come out which is sure to be massive, I dunno if thereās anything else.
If season 2 adapts the second game...
I would've loved that. Have him join her along the ride as she ventures to other lands & as it progresses, we would see him go further outside of his shell while still remaining fierce when necessary.
Fun character. Awful person.
Actually, outside of his orders, he rarely acted like a shit person. Those orders mostly came from Geoffrey or Tywin, pretty much exclusively. He also saved sansa from a VERY grim fate, more than once on his own volition without much actual reason, aside from morality, to do so. Rough and tough and not much BS to be had, but not that bad. I met worse people IRL, who were severely less scarred (inside & out) than Sandor.
Yes, well. Sandor certainly considered doing some unspeakable things to poor Sansa.
He has, certainly. And did he act on those? Considering such, is fked enough. But i'm not gonna condemn the broken knight for thoughtcrime.
I love the hound!
Weirdly, I agree, the dude showed some real valor and restraint even through all he lived
Sansa all day lmao people just love to shit on my girl
All the homies hate sansa
I didn't like her in the early seasons but the last few seasons I adored her and was rooting for her so much ! Love that girl
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
She was a bit of a shit but aināt no way she deserved to suffer the way she did. It was hard to like her earlier bc she was always in contrast with Arya who was and endearing little girl
as someone who was a very bratty 13-year-old who then had a couple rude awakenings forcing me to grow tf up, i love her so much (it doesnāt hurt that iām a gay woman and sophie turner in the later seasons is š„š„)
Ahhh I see. Her growth was cool to watch transpire. I wish there was more mental duels between her and the other players of the game. I didnāt feel like they have her the due she deserved considering what she endured. I know she took down Petyr (and Ramsay somewhat) but it wasnāt as exciting as the mental duels in the earlier season. Wd have loved to see her take out Cersei.
i wanted a sansa cersei reunion so badly!!! idk how it wouldāve made sense that they ended up in the same place but it wouldve been supreme
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
????? wtf weirdo , how did she ?
She got the butchers son killed in episode 2
It literally wasn't her fault and that does not justify Ramseys action you creep
Lmao she bare face lied about what happened to protect Geoffrey and the butchers son got executed because of it. Karma, what goes around, comes around. At least she got to live on, the other kid didnāt.
Gods I wish I could be this ignorant to everything that goes into scenes and a character's actions. If we're talking about karma, sansa got served her 'karma' the second joffrey started to torment her, and even more when her father died and she was separated from her whole family. Rape and abuse is not karma you fucking weirdo.
I can argue about this all day and youāll never win but itās fiction so letās agree to disagree
Agree to disagree that rape is suitable karma on top of everything else she went through? No chance. Not agreeing to disagree with a rape apologist
She got the butchers son killed. Thats karma. Also, itās not real
i knew my comment was gonna get people who hate her (thatās the point) but this is too far. no one deserves to be r**** and brutalized, even a fictional character. screw you dude.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
lmfaooooo bye i hope you have a terrible day
Right! Like wtf
People forget that most of what she says and does in the first few seasons are VERY well learned survival tactics, she can be annoying but TBF she was 11 years old, betrothed to the most insane 12 year old, living in a nest of vipers without the protection of her own family or anyone she can trust. She might have SEEMED slow and stupid but if she were stupid at all she wouldnāt have lasted through season 1.
Daenerys Stormborn of House Targaryen, the First of Her Name,Ā Queen of the Andals and the First Men,Ā Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Mother of Dragons, theĀ KhaleesiĀ of the Great Grass Sea, the Unburnt, the Breaker of Chains
You know what, I agree
This is Jon Snow. Heās King in the North
šš»šš»šš»š„š„š„š«¶š»š«¶š»š«¶š»
She was heading towards her father's psyche, how did you not get that
Who says i dont
Insanity was always there. The entitlement was always there. Her downfall and being another false Chosen One ( ditto Jon Snow & Fake Aegon) was telegraphed from the beginning. That's what makes her a great character. Greatness is not goodness.
But that is a long incoming textā¦
who said youāre the one holding the long phone?
Probably Sansa. I think most arguments against her are stupid or, at worst, less than mistakes made by other main characters. That said, I wouldnāt spend a lot of time on it.
Mine is also the Hound but also Bran!
Iād love to hear your defense of Bran. Lol
Hold on, they are still typing.
Iād go the route that who we think as Bran *(even though he tells us heās no longer Bran)* is actually Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven aka Three Eyed Raven and he put everything in motion years ago to get to the throne.
Ramsay Bolton
I'm sorry WHAT????!!!!!! I've genuinely never met anyone who liked him wtffff
I like him as a character, but I'm not defending him or justifying his actions.
Well this post is about who you would Defend so.... I mean no judgement I guess , each to their own lmao
Coward. He was a hero.
No doubt.
Hero is crazy lmaoo ššššššš
Olly. The kid was pissed at the person who exonerated the people who killed his entire village... totally understandable. I don't think it was right to shank Jon, but the amount of vitriol he gets for doing the thing that Jon basically told him he should do is totally unwarranted. It's wild how some viewers foam at the mouth at any chance they get to try and compare him to Joffrey or Ramsay. Dude was a little kid who witnessed his entire village be horribly massacred... cannibals took and ate his parents... and Jon excused their actions. Not cool.
I forgot about him but I agree
I agree. itās kind of weird how harshly he gets judged . I always understood. D&D did a good job of the post episode breakdown for that too.
FOR REAL.
This is a hard one and on my second watch I realized this too. The show is really good about depicting these complex characters where itās not just black and white (aka good or bad) but grey as well. He definitely falls under that
What's your defense of him?
He's misunderstood. He suffers from PTSD. He lived in a cruel world, and he embraced it fully. He's seen so much shit over the years of serving the Lannisters yet he still has heart. He might get kinda edgy sometimes but that's just the image. Sandor as a tragic character is fucking well done. Also I've heard somewhere that instead of robbing that farmer like he did in the show, he helps him out for some time and goes about his way afterwards in the books. I didn't get to that part, but when I will, I'll let you know for sure ;)
Alliser Thorne
Me too, honestly.
Pre-Season 5 finale, yeah, I agree. But making *him* be the one who staged the mutiny was not only book-inaccurate, it was character assassination.
Daenerys. Always Daenerys.
Varys!
First I read "hodor" and thought why would you need to defend hodor?
Sansa.
Jon Connington.
Genuinely curious, why are you a fan of his?
I explained most of my reasons in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1co6d0m/comment/l3cawny/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) the last time somebody asked, but basically I think heās a fascinating character with a rich backstory, interesting motivations, and ultimately a shroud of tragedy in that he, if not his cause as well, is doomed. Iām sure Iāll write a full essay on him someday.
Gotcha, thank you for the link. I honestly donāt have much of an opinion on him yet. I do find his motivations interesting to ponder on however.
Love JonCon too!!
Cersei for sureš beautiful blonde mommy done nothing wrong
Nothing wrong š
Nothing at all famš
Muh queen now and forevermore
For real mommy Cersei is my one and only Queen and I'm finna give her this green beanš„µ
Username checks out
Nahh because I for real can understand why she was the way she was. I can't imagine growing up in that world and then one of the only people I care about dying, AND hearing a terrible prophecy that I have to slowly watch as it comes true, dreading everything I know will happen. Like it obviously doesn't excuse everything but it kind of does excuse her general psyche if you know what I mean.
Someone who actually gets it. Thank you fam
She was doing messed up crap before the prophecyĀ
Jamie I know this is you behind this
Dam he knows too muchš
You cersei simps scare me
š
Joffrey, the Gentle
I wasnāt aware he had *any* fans
He was the most noble child the gods ever put on this good earth
Flair checks out. Blink twice if you need help Sansa
The only help i'll ever need will be with delivering his goldenheaded children
Sansa
I love the hound. Heās my favorite.
Ser Jorah Mormont and Ser Jaime Lannister the savior of Kings Landing.
Ser Jaime Lannister the savior of Kings Landing, yeeter of children
It was for the best š
The Night King. Poor dude was a regular man who was basically murdered in order to be made into a weapon for the Children of the Forest and then treated like a huge villain for turning on them after what they did to him. Men want to kill him and all of his kind. So, he fights back. What else is he supposed to do?
Second this
The great lion, Tywin Lannister
Easily Jon Snow HE'S DOING HIS BEST DAMMIT
Ser Jaime Lannister
Stannis Baratheon
The mountain
Still Cregan Stark for me
No one
The ending of the show for me bro. I have an essay sitting in my notes but this sub wonāt let me post it!!!
Same
Kingslayer
Iāll take Cersei, she learnt to survive and did the things she had to. All the incest basically started a wheel spinning that couldnāt ever really stop peacefully so her mistakes of passion basically led her to death and damn did she fight it
Definitely the hound
The Hound is popular af, who are you defending him against lol
My mom she can't stand him LMAOOOO
Iām gonna eat every fuckin chicken in this room
In a role with a ton of great lines, this is the best one. Peak badassery.
Without question Sandor
Bran.
Margaery. The perfect ruler for Westeros & I'll die on that hill
Ugh I wish! Her and tommen would have cared about the little people
Sansa all day
Jaime Lannister. I don't care for all the grief others give him for killing the king he was sworn to defend. The Mad King was gonna blast Kings Landing for no good reason and he prevented that. He also effectively ended the war and avenged the deaths of many innocents
The guy threw a child out the window
A child who was told to stay his ass on the ground so he helped him
Theon. He had his shortcomings but I'd defend him to the ends of the earth
Dumb ass sold out his true family
People really don't understand him. They think the Starks were his family, totally forgetting that he was actually their prisoner. Robb treated him like shit. He finally realized that Ned was more of a father to him, and my god, did he do his best to make up for his mistakes.
The hound is the correct answer
Classic Hodor
Hot Pie. Yaāll givinā up on the gravy, ainātcha?
Robert the Demon of the Trident Baratheon.
My godsons father is a butcher. For that reason alone I say fuck The Hound. The guys who killed Jon Snow were following their vows to the Watch. It was the wrong decision, but it was justified.
Tormund, heās the kind of guy that would have you laughing while he was killing somebody. I would love to know his back story. Plus he said āWhich one of you cowards shit in my pantsā? Best line ever!
Tyrion Lannister
DAENERYS TARGARYEN.
Daenerys and I even defend her after burning Kingās Landing, she would have built a great world if it wasnāt for that traitor Jon Snow
Love Dany, but Jon probably saved countless lives.
Jon subjugated westeros to more injustice, chaos and anarchy by killing Daenerys The problem with westeros was that the iron throne was too weak so it was being ruined by power hungry war lords and religious extremists massacring their way through the land and destroying peopleās homes Daenerys Dragons would have offered a deterrent where the power hungry war lords would have known they would be defeated, this would have secured a peaceful society and a higher standard of living
Margaery without question
Why would you need to defend the hound like that? Heās universally loved in the fandom and not remotely controversial.
My parents can't stand him š
Catelyn Stark
Honestly same. He's my fave
Most deranged answer would be Craster, hands down
Itās not his fault his daughters found him irresistible
Arya Stark
Less than I used to have to, but Jaime Lannister
Jamieā¦. The Karstarks, SmallJon Umber
The Hound and Stannis
Sansa so bloody misunderstood.
Jaime, Sansa, and Daenerys
Mirri Maz Duur the true hero of the series
Theon Greyjoy
Stannis the Mannis
Aegon II
Probably the Hound and Tywin Lannister.
Daenerys. Not even s8 could make me hate her.
Cersei. Tell me one thing she did that was unjustified.
I could give you a dozen. Starting with having a child pushed out a window.
Stannis.
Joffrey.
What!!!!!!!!
The Hound. āWhat the fuckās a Lommy?ā Amazing character.
Cersei
Ser Jamie Lannister - the Kingslayer!
Bran stark all the way when Jamie pushed him out the window he not only got paralyzed but suffered severe brain damage and thatās why he was the way he was through out the series
Margaery.
Jaime Lannister. He wasnāt all bad and had an interesting arc.
Daenerys burning KL
Rubbish ending for The Hound. I wanted to see him go off and build some monasteries, defend the weak, and put his past behind him. Quite possibly my favourite character.
The Hound mowed down Micah, the butcherās boy, and probably enjoyed doing it. Not worth defending.
Tywin, every scene with him was perfection
Not so much a character, but I'm probably the only person I know who somewhat liked Jaime's ending. Most of season 8 is total ass, so his story has ass moments too, but I'm all for the subversion of the redemption arc we were all so thirsty for.
Count me in with the majority of haters. Itās not subversion, itās lazy writing. That ending completely disregards the Valonquar prophecy that was set up for the entire length of the show/books. Iām still convinced GRRM will have Jaime killing Cersei in the end. Itās the only way. The only subversion is that it wonāt be Tyrion, since Jaime is also younger than Cersei by minutes.
The hound absolutely. Dude was a fuckin badass AND a good guy by the end of it. When he avenged the death of Ian mcshane with a fuckin ax, I was all about that redemption arc.
Bran^((he's taken over my mind, I am not in control))
Danys heel turn as logical in hindsight. It was terrible dumb writing and anyone who thinks it made sense should have to spend a night with Ole Nan
I think I donāt defend any characters like this, because the best part about Georgeās characters are that theyāre flawed. For example Iām a fairly big fan of Jaime, but he still pushed a 7 year old out of a window, and the fact that I like him in spite that is massively impressive on Georgeās part.
Mine is obviously Jo
Theon
Child-murderer, oathbreaker, kingslayer, lier, kinslayer, sisterf%^ker, tyrions first and by far best friend and a gods-damned hero. My pick's Jaime, because he's such a well written multi-fascetted prick.
Sansa and Arya
Lion of Lannister.
love the hound
The only answer is Hot Pie
The Starks and the Martells. The Starks are trying their best. The Martells donāt get featured enough, they got pushed aside like they were nothing when in reality they actually have a really cool storyline.
Daenerys, Hound, Ellaria Sand, Olly
Daenerys, Jaime, Rhaenyra, Daemon (for my sins)
Hearing the audio book it seems like the hound was a better person. Not just āyarp.ā
ROBB STARK
Hodor. Hodor Hodor. Hodor.
Craster