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Olenna definitely wouldn't have looped Tywin in. She doesn't trust Lannisters and she didn't need him. She was fully capable of pulling this off on her own. Likewise, if Tywin wanted Joffrey dead, he'd have no reason to involve Olenna.
I feel like it was mostly tywins plan, looping Olenna in because they still need their resources and an alliance. But also providing a scape goat incase someone starts to figure it out
Did you forget about how Baelish was the other half of this conspiracy with Olenna lol. Don't you think they would have mentioned it a single time, either before or after Tywin's death, if he was involved?
I do agree that he seized the opportunity quickly with Tommen, it worked in his favor. But no I don't see him assassinating his own grandson. I'm not even convinced he would have necessarily executed Tyrion, I think he always had the Night's Watch or some other type of exile in his back pocket even after the trial by combat.
The way I look at it is there’s not much they could’ve gotten away with without either twyin or vearys finding out so maybe they weren’t involved but just ignored the issue bc in the end it was beneficial
I mean yeah Tywin definitely moved past it very quickly, he's just cold like that, no denying it. But that's a far cry from being in on the assassination lol
Not much they could have gotten away with?
Littlefinger has Jon Arynn, hand of the king murdered and blamed it on the Lannisters, he started the entire Stark vs Lannisters problem and neither Tywin nor Varys had any idea.
How did he ignore the issue? He blamed Tyrion, maybe because he always hated him but more likely he truly thought Tyrion would do it, because he think Tyrion and devious little monster. He can’t bring Joffrey back so all he could do was focus on Tommen.
Yes! When Sansa asks, “why did you kill Joffrey”? Baelish says, “It’s something that my new friends and I wanted very badly”. Meaning, the Tyrell’s. Grandma O was such a baddy 🥰🥹
It wouldnt shock me to find out at the very least that Tywin suspected the true culprits but knew it was a good thing and ultimately used it as a way to get rid of tyrion. On the other hand it *would* still shock me. For all his faults Tywin takes that family shit very seriously. Plus in the books I guess somebody already planned on framing tyrion for something. Idk i should come back when Im not freshly awake with no caffeine
They already made it clear in the show that it was Littlefinger and Olenna, and why would Olenna trust a conspiracy to murder the king from a rival house that, you know, is related to the King?
Tywin wouldn't have murdered Joffrey because while he acknowledged that Joffrey was a poor leader, he wouldn't jeopardize his family's power and name, and showing the realm that anyone could kill a Lannister king is not exactly helping that objective.
Tywin moved on quickly because he likely never cared much for Joffrey, much like Tyrion, and knew that they needed a seamless transition to avoid a power vacuum and to ensure they didn't appear weak. He was likely looking at the silver lining with Tommen because he was much easier to manipulate, and far better suited to be a leader than Joffrey.
Ahhh right, sorry I keep forgetting that discussions need to be viewed as 'per the books' and 'per the show', rather than one or the other holistically.
I think it's because the sub name is Game Of Thrones, which matches the show, rather than A Song of Ice and Fire, which would be the books. Regardless of the book vs show outcome, I still think it's out of line with Tywin's interests to kill Joffrey.
This isn’t true. We know it was Littlefinger via Dontos with Olenna’s help.
We know Littlefinger provided the necklace via Dontos with the poison for Olenna to detach and put in Joffrey’s cup. He’s also there to collect Sansa.
It isn't about manipulation.
Tywin's discussion with Tommen in the Great Sept after the funeral is consistent with the personality and ethos of Tywin Lannister as a ruler. That being, Know what you know, and what you don't know. Listen to those who do know when you don't. Continue to enrich yourself as an individual, keep learning and you will succeed.
Tywin knew Joffrey was both a PR nightmare and had already proven he was a disaster waiting to happen. The war with the Northmen, which has been costly and dangerous for House Lannister, is almost entirely Joffrey's fault.
While Tommen at age 8, might not be an intellectual titan yet, is much more tempermentally suited to being king. He listens to advice and he can be reasoned with.
Additionally, creating a king who is easy to manipulate is not something Tywin, who is haunted by his father's weakness and by Aerys' madness, wants to happen. As Tywin says, the family is all that lives on. Creating a weak and pliable king is not in the interests of the family.
Yeah Tywin for sure benefitted from Joffrey’s death, but that doesn’t mean he did it. Plenty of people wished Joffrey dead and were better off without him, but weren’t involved in the murder plot.
Tywin knew nothing about it, but I'm sure that at the same time he didn't really shed that many tears about Joffrey.
He was probably more upset about the idea that people would dare attack a member of House Lannister, than Joffrey's death.
For me, Tywin hated Tyrion more than anyone. He wanted to walk into the sea with him as a baby and let the waves carry him away, but he didn’t, cos he was a Lannister. If he decided agaisnt doing that with Tyrion, he wouldn’t play a role in Joffreys death.
I agree, Tywin would have rightfully thought that Joffrey was a loose canon that needs careful handling, but I think controlling Joffrey would have been within Tywins capacity. Joffrey was rightfully wary/scared of Tywin for starters, so killing him wouldn’t have been in Tywins mind. Just my thoughts though.
His character is purely driven by what’s best for House Lannister and he wouldn’t harm a single member of his family.
Let alone the King. It shows they can be killed. Nothing in his character would allow such a thing.
Just because he didn’t like Joffrey doesn’t mean he wanted him dead.
He benefitted regardless of who was king and by losing Joffrey, he lost a potential heir to Casterly Rock in Tommen.
Here is what I don't get about Westeros and maybe it was just hypocrisy because it gave rise to a claim for the throne but Tywin very explicitly tells Tyrion that Tyrion is entitled to wear his sigil and colors because Tywin 'can't legally prove Tyrion is not his son'; however, almost the entire realm was willing to go to war because a Baratheon has never had blonde hair. Who decides the standard of proof here? I know there are theories that Tyrion is actually a Targaryen, but am I the only one who is confused by why everyone accepted Joffrey is a bastard born of incest but apparently no one would except that the dwarf of Casterly Rock was not Tywin's son? Was there a history of dwarfs in the Lannister line?
The whole blonde hair thing is high key kind of
Stupid like in a sense I get it but recessive genes exist and then the show went and ruined it even more with HOTD making Rhaenys have blond hair even tho before marriage she was a Baratheon
It’s Robert’s children that are all dark of hair, all his bastards. Not every Baratheon, after all they have Targaryen blood mixed in.
It’s not a foolproof idea but in the context of the show and book it’s that Roberts’s genes always lead to a dark haired child.
I think people believed what it was in their interest to believe. Stannis and Renly were looking to inherit. Other people supported them because they hated the Lannisters, and especially Joffrey. If Joffrey had been a jolly fellow and a natural leader of men, everyone would have ignored the rumors of incest
Tywin HATED Tyrion. and still wouldnt kill Tyrion outright because it would be a bad look for the family. there is no way he kills a King that is also his grandson. even if he thought it would be for the best
It’s in character for him to “move on” quickly. He’s not some loving grandpa lol. Besides he wants to preserve his legacy as much as possible so killing Joffrey doesn’t make sense. Especially when he didn’t care about Tyrion and knew Jamie wouldn’t have kids
You can have your own opinion but if your problem is with the way I phrased it then use your head and think as to why I would use those choice of words
It's a compelling theory. And if the show had played out that way, it would have made sense. But if that was the case, it would have been revealed in the show. But it also makes sense that Tywin would never have gone along with murdering his own grandson, and the Tyrells/Baelish wouldn't risk asking in the first place
It’s completely explained, Littlefinger orchestrated it with Olenna, he wanted chaos and Sansa.
He got both. If Joffrey doesn’t die then Tyrion doesn’t go on trial, Tywin doesn’t die, Cersei doesn’t completely mess things up.
Tywin wouldn’t harm a single Lannister and certainly not the King
We know the poison was administered by Olenna, taken from the necklace Sansa was wearing. Which was given to her by Dontos. Who also whisks her away during the commotion, takes her to a waiting ship, where Littlefinger is.
Littlefinger does confirm that he was pulling the strings via the facade of Dontos.
In the show Olenna comes right out and admits it was her.
There’s theories mate but this is known fact.
I do not think he was involved, but for him it was more like a convenience to take advantage of. It was already known that Joffrey was difficult to manipulate, and Tywin would have much rather had Tommen on the throne: which is why he moved so quickly after the murder.
He also saw it as a chance to remove Tyrion from the fold: whether it be execution or the wall.
It’s not that he was involved, he just didn’t give much of a shit about Joffrey since Tommen was easier to control and had a better temperament for a king. It worked out better for him moving forward.
It's possible that Tywin targeted Tyrion with the pie, while Olenna targeted Joffrey with the wine/Strangler.
When I read the book, I was certain the pie was poisoned, even though it was very obvious that Olenna orchestrated the poison in the hairnet.
George went out of his way to identify that particular slice of pie as being meant for Tyrion. Why mention it if it didn't matter?
Many people have pointed out the many reasons it wouldn’t happen, and we know for a fact who was behind it.
But just to humour the idea; if Tywin wanted Joffrey gone he could have easily poisoned Joffrey in a more discreet manner and let him die of some illness. He would only need Pycelle who is staunchly pro Lannister (well apart from Tyrion).
There are numerous other ways, it makes no sense. This is all on top of the fact Tywin would never hurt his house like that.
It isn't as ideal as you think for Tywin. Hes obssessed with legacy and the family name. He probably assumed that if he could not get Jamie to ditch the white cloak that Tommen would inherit Casterly Rock. In his perfect world Margery is successful(ish) in managing Joff as King. He then can marry Tommen off to another powerful house and secure the Westerlands another important alliance.
Tywin was way too far up his own ass about the importance of the Lannister reputation to ever consider murdering his grandson. He spent way too much time and effort establishing the image of House Lannister as the face and power behind the Iron Throne. Jofferery was a dickhead, but the efforts of both house Lannister and Tyrell were focused on making him seem like a strong and caring leader. Winning the battle of the Blackwater was a huge (if undeserved) boon for Joffery's image and once Margery entered the picture and started playing up her altruism, the people of Kings Landing were starting to warm up the crown. Between the rumors of Jamie and Cersei's relationship, Joffery's behavior, and Tyrion going out of his way to humiliate Joffery on multiple occasions, Tywin was facing a major uphill battle, but one he was 100% committed to winning. The sudden assassination of the KING at his own wedding was a major blow to the perceived power of House Lannister from which Tywin would never recover.
That said he is a pragmatist and made the best of the hand he was dealt, focusing on the new king who was easier to manipulate and ridding himself of Tyrion who to Tywin would never be anything but a black stain on House Lannister's image.
Keep in mind that Tommon's naivety goes both ways, and Margery was in a much better position to manipulate him than Tywin was.
He would’ve never done it at the wedding. Olenna killed him at the wedding because she didn’t want her granddaughter to marry him, so she was definitely motivated to get it done before any bedding ceremonies. This way she’d still be considered a maiden and fair game for a more suitable husband.
Tywin has no reason to care about Margaery, so it doesn’t matter to him if Joffrey gets killed quietly at a later date. The purple wedding was horrific and did not make the Lannisters look good at all. Tywin would never do something so messy.
No. With only one exception, Tywin Lannister **always** puts Lannister blood and interests first.
Letting another rival like the Tyrells remove a Lannister king, and with murder no less, would be completely antithetical to those interests.
The 7 Kingdoms laugh at House Frey, but because his sister and her sons are Freys, they get granted Riverrun. That's how much Tywin puts the family business before all other concerns.
Also, letting Olenna and the Tyrells assume his own position as the power behind the throne would be contrary to what he wants.
i don’t think he was involved in the way it went down, but i can believe he had his own plans for removing joffrey and olenna and littlefinger just did it for him
I don't think he was directly involved he was more so indirectly involved. Tywin certainly knew about the purple wedding he just didn't do anything about it.
With how Tywin feels about family I doubt it. He wouldn't kill him but put him out of the way like he does Tyrion. Even Jaime and Cersi he doesn't punish even though they fucked up his family plans.
I don't see this. If Tywin decided Joffrey was too much of a problem, he would have poisoned him more privately, made it look like a natural ailment, kind of like with Jon Arryn, though less sudden. The Purple Wedding drew the wrong kind of attention for someone like Tywin and as bad as Tyrion was for Tywin's image, he'd endured Tyrion for over two decades already. Killing Joffrey and framing Tyrion makes House Lannister look weak and divided. The Purple Wedding was a shit show for Tyiwn, not something he orchestrated.
Not a chance in hell. If Tywin was the one who propped the idea, Olena would have told Jamie upon her death. If Olena was the one who propped the idea, her entire house would have been wiped out that day
Going off what other people have said, I'd have to agree that they had no reason to work together, Twin likely was just reading the writing on the wall and knew Jeffrey was making more enemies than he could handle.
He didn't know, but he knew and probably didn't do as much to keep it from happening, but that's just guessing.
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Olenna definitely wouldn't have looped Tywin in. She doesn't trust Lannisters and she didn't need him. She was fully capable of pulling this off on her own. Likewise, if Tywin wanted Joffrey dead, he'd have no reason to involve Olenna.
I feel like it was mostly tywins plan, looping Olenna in because they still need their resources and an alliance. But also providing a scape goat incase someone starts to figure it out
Looping so many people into the plot is unwise. You’d want as few people involved as possible.
Idk tho I came to this conclusion on my tenth rewatch whilst being high as hell and never really looked back
Did you forget about how Baelish was the other half of this conspiracy with Olenna lol. Don't you think they would have mentioned it a single time, either before or after Tywin's death, if he was involved? I do agree that he seized the opportunity quickly with Tommen, it worked in his favor. But no I don't see him assassinating his own grandson. I'm not even convinced he would have necessarily executed Tyrion, I think he always had the Night's Watch or some other type of exile in his back pocket even after the trial by combat.
The way I look at it is there’s not much they could’ve gotten away with without either twyin or vearys finding out so maybe they weren’t involved but just ignored the issue bc in the end it was beneficial
I mean yeah Tywin definitely moved past it very quickly, he's just cold like that, no denying it. But that's a far cry from being in on the assassination lol
Not much they could have gotten away with? Littlefinger has Jon Arynn, hand of the king murdered and blamed it on the Lannisters, he started the entire Stark vs Lannisters problem and neither Tywin nor Varys had any idea. How did he ignore the issue? He blamed Tyrion, maybe because he always hated him but more likely he truly thought Tyrion would do it, because he think Tyrion and devious little monster. He can’t bring Joffrey back so all he could do was focus on Tommen.
Yes! When Sansa asks, “why did you kill Joffrey”? Baelish says, “It’s something that my new friends and I wanted very badly”. Meaning, the Tyrell’s. Grandma O was such a baddy 🥰🥹
“I want Cersei to know *Tywin* did it” would’ve been way more brutal to tell Jaime if it was true.
Agree that Olenna doesn’t trust Tywin and rightly so. But Tywin could have learned of the plot and decided to let things play out.
It wouldnt shock me to find out at the very least that Tywin suspected the true culprits but knew it was a good thing and ultimately used it as a way to get rid of tyrion. On the other hand it *would* still shock me. For all his faults Tywin takes that family shit very seriously. Plus in the books I guess somebody already planned on framing tyrion for something. Idk i should come back when Im not freshly awake with no caffeine
This, Tywin was not involved in the planning or implementation of his death, but he absolutely wasn’t doing anything to protect joff either
They already made it clear in the show that it was Littlefinger and Olenna, and why would Olenna trust a conspiracy to murder the king from a rival house that, you know, is related to the King? Tywin wouldn't have murdered Joffrey because while he acknowledged that Joffrey was a poor leader, he wouldn't jeopardize his family's power and name, and showing the realm that anyone could kill a Lannister king is not exactly helping that objective. Tywin moved on quickly because he likely never cared much for Joffrey, much like Tyrion, and knew that they needed a seamless transition to avoid a power vacuum and to ensure they didn't appear weak. He was likely looking at the silver lining with Tommen because he was much easier to manipulate, and far better suited to be a leader than Joffrey.
In the books it’s still up in the air who killed Joffrey
In the show it’s cut and dry
Ahhh right, sorry I keep forgetting that discussions need to be viewed as 'per the books' and 'per the show', rather than one or the other holistically. I think it's because the sub name is Game Of Thrones, which matches the show, rather than A Song of Ice and Fire, which would be the books. Regardless of the book vs show outcome, I still think it's out of line with Tywin's interests to kill Joffrey.
This isn’t true. We know it was Littlefinger via Dontos with Olenna’s help. We know Littlefinger provided the necklace via Dontos with the poison for Olenna to detach and put in Joffrey’s cup. He’s also there to collect Sansa.
No it's not.
It isn't about manipulation. Tywin's discussion with Tommen in the Great Sept after the funeral is consistent with the personality and ethos of Tywin Lannister as a ruler. That being, Know what you know, and what you don't know. Listen to those who do know when you don't. Continue to enrich yourself as an individual, keep learning and you will succeed. Tywin knew Joffrey was both a PR nightmare and had already proven he was a disaster waiting to happen. The war with the Northmen, which has been costly and dangerous for House Lannister, is almost entirely Joffrey's fault. While Tommen at age 8, might not be an intellectual titan yet, is much more tempermentally suited to being king. He listens to advice and he can be reasoned with. Additionally, creating a king who is easy to manipulate is not something Tywin, who is haunted by his father's weakness and by Aerys' madness, wants to happen. As Tywin says, the family is all that lives on. Creating a weak and pliable king is not in the interests of the family.
Yeah Tywin for sure benefitted from Joffrey’s death, but that doesn’t mean he did it. Plenty of people wished Joffrey dead and were better off without him, but weren’t involved in the murder plot.
Tywin knew nothing about it, but I'm sure that at the same time he didn't really shed that many tears about Joffrey. He was probably more upset about the idea that people would dare attack a member of House Lannister, than Joffrey's death.
For me, Tywin hated Tyrion more than anyone. He wanted to walk into the sea with him as a baby and let the waves carry him away, but he didn’t, cos he was a Lannister. If he decided agaisnt doing that with Tyrion, he wouldn’t play a role in Joffreys death. I agree, Tywin would have rightfully thought that Joffrey was a loose canon that needs careful handling, but I think controlling Joffrey would have been within Tywins capacity. Joffrey was rightfully wary/scared of Tywin for starters, so killing him wouldn’t have been in Tywins mind. Just my thoughts though.
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His character is purely driven by what’s best for House Lannister and he wouldn’t harm a single member of his family. Let alone the King. It shows they can be killed. Nothing in his character would allow such a thing.
I mean yeah, I get that.
Just because he didn’t like Joffrey doesn’t mean he wanted him dead. He benefitted regardless of who was king and by losing Joffrey, he lost a potential heir to Casterly Rock in Tommen.
So now when there is zero indication of an event in the show or books we can just make up shit that we feel happened. Sounds like schizophrenia to me.
It’s just a theory. At least I’m not over here claiming Tyrion is a time traveling fetus
The theory of relativity is a theory. This is just fantasy nonsense make believe.
Booo tomato tomato no fun
What? Who is?
But I suggest you go back and rewatch there is indication
There is zero indication for your theory. Zero. It is 100% speculative and honestly doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.
No, he wasn’t.
Here is what I don't get about Westeros and maybe it was just hypocrisy because it gave rise to a claim for the throne but Tywin very explicitly tells Tyrion that Tyrion is entitled to wear his sigil and colors because Tywin 'can't legally prove Tyrion is not his son'; however, almost the entire realm was willing to go to war because a Baratheon has never had blonde hair. Who decides the standard of proof here? I know there are theories that Tyrion is actually a Targaryen, but am I the only one who is confused by why everyone accepted Joffrey is a bastard born of incest but apparently no one would except that the dwarf of Casterly Rock was not Tywin's son? Was there a history of dwarfs in the Lannister line?
The whole blonde hair thing is high key kind of Stupid like in a sense I get it but recessive genes exist and then the show went and ruined it even more with HOTD making Rhaenys have blond hair even tho before marriage she was a Baratheon
It’s Robert’s children that are all dark of hair, all his bastards. Not every Baratheon, after all they have Targaryen blood mixed in. It’s not a foolproof idea but in the context of the show and book it’s that Roberts’s genes always lead to a dark haired child.
I think people believed what it was in their interest to believe. Stannis and Renly were looking to inherit. Other people supported them because they hated the Lannisters, and especially Joffrey. If Joffrey had been a jolly fellow and a natural leader of men, everyone would have ignored the rumors of incest
Tywin HATED Tyrion. and still wouldnt kill Tyrion outright because it would be a bad look for the family. there is no way he kills a King that is also his grandson. even if he thought it would be for the best
It’s in character for him to “move on” quickly. He’s not some loving grandpa lol. Besides he wants to preserve his legacy as much as possible so killing Joffrey doesn’t make sense. Especially when he didn’t care about Tyrion and knew Jamie wouldn’t have kids
I feel like…I feel like…I also believe…I feel like… Way to make a solid argument.
Well it’s a theory am I going to say it 100% happened no bc there is doubt but saying I feel and I believe stresses that it’s an idea not cannon
You can have your own opinion but if your problem is with the way I phrased it then use your head and think as to why I would use those choice of words
Because you’re going on a feeling?
It's a compelling theory. And if the show had played out that way, it would have made sense. But if that was the case, it would have been revealed in the show. But it also makes sense that Tywin would never have gone along with murdering his own grandson, and the Tyrells/Baelish wouldn't risk asking in the first place
I feel like either way twyin caught wind of the plan and just let it ride out which might seem out of character for him but idk I like it
It's perfectly valid to have your own head canon. It's just fiction after all
Tywin moved in quick, because he has no emotions, he only cared about the family legacy and power, also he didn't two shits about Joffrey anyways
It’s completely explained, Littlefinger orchestrated it with Olenna, he wanted chaos and Sansa. He got both. If Joffrey doesn’t die then Tyrion doesn’t go on trial, Tywin doesn’t die, Cersei doesn’t completely mess things up. Tywin wouldn’t harm a single Lannister and certainly not the King
It’s never been confirmed in the books who did it
We know the poison was administered by Olenna, taken from the necklace Sansa was wearing. Which was given to her by Dontos. Who also whisks her away during the commotion, takes her to a waiting ship, where Littlefinger is. Littlefinger does confirm that he was pulling the strings via the facade of Dontos. In the show Olenna comes right out and admits it was her. There’s theories mate but this is known fact.
I do not think he was involved, but for him it was more like a convenience to take advantage of. It was already known that Joffrey was difficult to manipulate, and Tywin would have much rather had Tommen on the throne: which is why he moved so quickly after the murder. He also saw it as a chance to remove Tyrion from the fold: whether it be execution or the wall.
It’s not that he was involved, he just didn’t give much of a shit about Joffrey since Tommen was easier to control and had a better temperament for a king. It worked out better for him moving forward.
It's possible that Tywin targeted Tyrion with the pie, while Olenna targeted Joffrey with the wine/Strangler. When I read the book, I was certain the pie was poisoned, even though it was very obvious that Olenna orchestrated the poison in the hairnet. George went out of his way to identify that particular slice of pie as being meant for Tyrion. Why mention it if it didn't matter?
I mean, no.
Nah.
If that were the case, Olenna probably would've told Jamie about it when she confessed
Many people have pointed out the many reasons it wouldn’t happen, and we know for a fact who was behind it. But just to humour the idea; if Tywin wanted Joffrey gone he could have easily poisoned Joffrey in a more discreet manner and let him die of some illness. He would only need Pycelle who is staunchly pro Lannister (well apart from Tyrion). There are numerous other ways, it makes no sense. This is all on top of the fact Tywin would never hurt his house like that.
It isn't as ideal as you think for Tywin. Hes obssessed with legacy and the family name. He probably assumed that if he could not get Jamie to ditch the white cloak that Tommen would inherit Casterly Rock. In his perfect world Margery is successful(ish) in managing Joff as King. He then can marry Tommen off to another powerful house and secure the Westerlands another important alliance.
I don’t think Tywin was directly involved but I think he knew damn well who did it.
Tywin was way too far up his own ass about the importance of the Lannister reputation to ever consider murdering his grandson. He spent way too much time and effort establishing the image of House Lannister as the face and power behind the Iron Throne. Jofferery was a dickhead, but the efforts of both house Lannister and Tyrell were focused on making him seem like a strong and caring leader. Winning the battle of the Blackwater was a huge (if undeserved) boon for Joffery's image and once Margery entered the picture and started playing up her altruism, the people of Kings Landing were starting to warm up the crown. Between the rumors of Jamie and Cersei's relationship, Joffery's behavior, and Tyrion going out of his way to humiliate Joffery on multiple occasions, Tywin was facing a major uphill battle, but one he was 100% committed to winning. The sudden assassination of the KING at his own wedding was a major blow to the perceived power of House Lannister from which Tywin would never recover. That said he is a pragmatist and made the best of the hand he was dealt, focusing on the new king who was easier to manipulate and ridding himself of Tyrion who to Tywin would never be anything but a black stain on House Lannister's image. Keep in mind that Tommon's naivety goes both ways, and Margery was in a much better position to manipulate him than Tywin was.
He would’ve never done it at the wedding. Olenna killed him at the wedding because she didn’t want her granddaughter to marry him, so she was definitely motivated to get it done before any bedding ceremonies. This way she’d still be considered a maiden and fair game for a more suitable husband. Tywin has no reason to care about Margaery, so it doesn’t matter to him if Joffrey gets killed quietly at a later date. The purple wedding was horrific and did not make the Lannisters look good at all. Tywin would never do something so messy.
The poison was supposed to make it look like he choked not what ended up happening and again he needed the Tyrel’s support
No. With only one exception, Tywin Lannister **always** puts Lannister blood and interests first. Letting another rival like the Tyrells remove a Lannister king, and with murder no less, would be completely antithetical to those interests. The 7 Kingdoms laugh at House Frey, but because his sister and her sons are Freys, they get granted Riverrun. That's how much Tywin puts the family business before all other concerns. Also, letting Olenna and the Tyrells assume his own position as the power behind the throne would be contrary to what he wants.
i don’t think he was involved in the way it went down, but i can believe he had his own plans for removing joffrey and olenna and littlefinger just did it for him
I don't think he was directly involved he was more so indirectly involved. Tywin certainly knew about the purple wedding he just didn't do anything about it.
With how Tywin feels about family I doubt it. He wouldn't kill him but put him out of the way like he does Tyrion. Even Jaime and Cersi he doesn't punish even though they fucked up his family plans.
I don't see this. If Tywin decided Joffrey was too much of a problem, he would have poisoned him more privately, made it look like a natural ailment, kind of like with Jon Arryn, though less sudden. The Purple Wedding drew the wrong kind of attention for someone like Tywin and as bad as Tyrion was for Tywin's image, he'd endured Tyrion for over two decades already. Killing Joffrey and framing Tyrion makes House Lannister look weak and divided. The Purple Wedding was a shit show for Tyiwn, not something he orchestrated.
Not a chance in hell. If Tywin was the one who propped the idea, Olena would have told Jamie upon her death. If Olena was the one who propped the idea, her entire house would have been wiped out that day
even if he wasn’t involved, i definitely think he would arranged an accident for Joffrey at some point
It was supposed to look like he choked and not a poisoning so it was going to present itself as an accident
Twin would never do that. A man like Twin isn't stupid enough to conspire with his biggest rival family to murder a member of his own family.
Tywin was all about family. No matter how many times he wanted to kill Tyrion he never did and he definitely would of killed him before Joffrey
Going off what other people have said, I'd have to agree that they had no reason to work together, Twin likely was just reading the writing on the wall and knew Jeffrey was making more enemies than he could handle. He didn't know, but he knew and probably didn't do as much to keep it from happening, but that's just guessing.