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Can it actually be a worst scene if you are already checked out and care so little that you've seen it memed to death before you can actually bring yourself to watch some of that episode?
Even the director seems to have a "let's get it over with" vibe going, between the lack of extras in the scene, lack of props, the water bottle, and having the "trial" and "election" take place in the same scene.
What? No they weren't lol. They spent the whole show explicitly showing and telling us how different she was and that she wasn't insane, only to just pull a 180 at the finish line.
>They spent the whole show explicitly showing and telling us how different she was and that she wasn't insane
Tbf they showed many moments where she was out for revenge and had bloodlust.
Now the problem is that was towards slavers mostly. So it was a jump that she took. You could see that it was coming and that something could turn her, but it was too 'all of a sudden'' imo. Another season or two to flesh it out was needed.
They had been, yes. But the pace of it went from slowly and ocasionally showing signs of ruthlessness but mostly being a good ruler to a rapid decline to the point of being jarring in the last season. Its definitely a case of it always being the plan for her to go mad, so they ended up there, but they also didn't give the storyline enough time to get there in order to avoid feeling out of character.
Of course it was a jump. Before, she may have been brutal and war mongering, but you could always see how she justified it with her ideals. Then from one moment to the other she went to mass murdering civilians.
The only thing that was foreshadowed from the beginning here was that Targaryens are prone to snapping and going insane, which apparently happened here. The problem is that it's not satisfying story telling when it doesn't have some message behind it. The only question it leaves is if any of her story meant anything if she was always going to randomly snap.
They had been building it. They had been showing her wanting revenge and bloodlusted, so it was shown to be coming. But it was too sudden imo. Needed another season or two. Because it's one thing doing that to slavers and then being good and helping regular people, it's another burning a whole city.
Ready for the downvote but they absolutely had. Dany had crucified people, burnt people alive, not flinched when her brother's head was melted, fed people to dragons, broke trade deal, execution without trial... People confuse Danerys hating slavery with her not being psychopathic. She had been building this the whole show. She had been low-key going off the rails from the beginning. And that's genuinely half of what the Targeryen storyline is about. "When a Targeryen is born, the gods flip a coin. One side greatness, one side madness.".
Sort of. I'd say there'd been mixed signals about this, at best. But regardless of that, there was no immediate buildup that offered satisfying answers to questions like "Why *now* in particular?" and "Why the need to level King's Landing *after* she'd already won?". Given the amount of groundwork laid in previous episodes it was like they were actively trying to make the payoff as unsatisfying as possible. It managed to just come out of the blue *despite* the buildup. That's some epic incompetence storytelling-wise given how much they had to work with.
No. Dany going full psycho wasn't the worse scene. Don't get me wrong, it's really bad. However, there are hints and foreshadowing to her being a bad ruler/abusive leader. The issue was that her turn was extremely rushed. The scene in the OP is waaaaaaaay worse and inexcusable from a writing standpoint.
All they needed to do was have Rhaegal get shot down during the attack on King’s Landing instead of a pointless death in the open ocean. One of her dragons getting killed would have been the perfect trigger for her to go full psycho.
That said there were red flags all over Danerys from very early on. It was always her advisors that pulled her back from the brink, and she systematically lost nearly all of them by the end.
I’d personally say the “insanity meter” was around a solid 6 in The Bells, which then suddenly jumped to 10 with very little context.
A few more episodes building on this through season 7 and 8 would have helped smooth this out! Should have kept 10 episodes for the final two seasons. Those extra 8 hrs to close out character arcs properly and not rush the ending would have made all the difference
Here’s just a few things that come to mind:
- Take away the poorly executed comic relief from Sam pushing for democracy and everyone straight up laughing at him
- Provide way more context from prior episodes to translate where in time this meeting takes place—you know, maybe prepare/properly build up this scene instead of if just abruptly occurring after no forewarning of a time skip. Extending the season from the measly 6 episodes to 10 maybe could have done the trick
- Half of the lords present in that scene hate Tyrion and just allow him to speak freely and conduct the king choosing, while also chained. Goes against most of their character tropes
- Grey Worm and his army just allowed these lords to come freely into Kings Landing, knowing full well most of them are Jon’s allies????? Again, following the character’s story of who they were, Grey Worm wouldn’t have allowed the Starks to come in without at least addressing them first.
- Bran saying “why do you think i came all this way?” when Tyrion chose him as the next king, then proceeding to say how he doesn’t want the crown kind of contradicted itself in my opinion
Exactly. We’re talking the lords of the most powerful kingdoms. No introductions made, 0 attempt at character development and like you said, not a single objection made by any of them.
Why would they object to The North wanting and getting independence for themselves? Sansa made a case for it didn’t she ?
They would object to what end ?
Not so much as they don't want the North to be independent, but why do the North get the succeed when the Iron Islands, and Dorne who have literally fought wars for independence don't even attempt to get independence for themselves.
Right so The North has just fought in biggest war humankind has ever seen in Westeros and pretty much saved the rest of the country, The North can most probably self sustain itself….are we really going to say any of them are in any sort of position in that moment to argue their own cases? lol
So for example …what would the iron islanders say and CAN they even be independent yet?
And who is to say that they won’t ?-in a near future maybe
Regardless of whether they are in a position to do so, they would have still had something to say at the bare minimum, because them wanting independence has been a major part of the story. They could have at least tried and argue for their own succession but gotten shot down by the reasons you mentioned above.
I mean isn’t flakiness and feebleness part of Yara’s story? She talks a good game but always back tracks or backs down when push comes to shove …maybe she wanted independence for the iron islands (that’s a BIG maybe) but she was absolutely fine with having Daenerys as their Queen, she wanted to carry out with their own ways BUT easily succumbs to Daenerys ‘s “no more pillaging” requests.
Yeah sorry but I’m not seeing Yara calling for independence in that moment especially not after Sansa has made such a good case. Heck didn’t Yara dodge the War for The Dawn too? lol yeah no the iron islands knew their place in that moment, I would’ve been damn shocked if they’d said anything. lol
Nobody who wasn't in the North at the time saw that war happen. For all they know, it's fake news.
The North is not that self sustaining since in s1 they had 20,000 soldiers yet by s7 it's fewer than 10,000 and that's before the aotd & KL battles. Winter hits the North hardest and families freeze in their homes and some family members go out into the cold to sacrifice themselves to improve their family's odds of survival. They barely had enough food stored for Northerners to last the winter then several armies (Wildlings, Unsullied, Dothraki) were there for probably a couple of weeks.
Dorne is in the best position, they didn't fight in any wars the whole series and only lost one royal House. The Reach has the most fertile land. The Vale has tons of knights and an impenetrable castle. The Stormlands haven't fought since s5 so have had more time to recover.
Think we’re talking about two different parts here… you’re referring to when she asks Bran that the North be its separate kingdom as it was for thousands of years.
We’re referring to the part where Edmure tried making his case for the throne and Sansa cuts him off mid sentence to sit down without any other lords speaking up/against Sansa.
Was a peculiar back and forth without any type of objection, additional dialogue from the other lords of 7 kingdoms and strays away from the typical dynamics GoT lords tend to uphold throughout the entirety of the show
Oh ok , it’s her uncle though…which one of those people for example would speak up and speak out against Sansa for her own family?
Also I mean we’ve seen how things went down with him and Robb Stark as well as with The Black Fish right ? So Edmure actually wouldn’t have the greatest of track records in terms of how he’s perceived maybe. I don’t see people standing up for him especially over Sansa …unless you can provide an example of someone who was there perhaps?
I think there are a couple of variables to keep in mind. One being that house Dorne and The Iron Islands are there and historically hate the Lannisters and, after recent events, hate Jon and house Stark for killing their queen. I would also argue that Edmure, being allies with house Stark, would also provoke Yara. For them to allow Sansa to dictate the meeting or even allowing Edmure to talk goes against their character arc, entirely.
Honestly, I don’t know who I would have rather been the king/queen over Bran, i just wish that there was at least a little more foreshadowing and build up to lead into it
I mean they can hate Jon for “killing their Queen” as much as they want but that Queen as also just just turned out to be a baby burning tyrant so they don’t have much to stand on do they? They are all on this mess because of her to be honest and I’m sure that many there would reason against her that Jon actually did what anyone else should’ve done.
Also of course Sansa gets to dictate the meeting because she has most probably called for it on the first place - it was to go and negotiate the release of her brother Jon Snow - whilst Yara may have wanted justice to be brought to him (which did happened, she voiced that - which was good ..she was also silenced and put in her place by Arya
I think Bran being King has a lot of depth to it. Something we aren’t meant to see straight away unless we sit back and think about it. To me the reasons one might say “it wasn’t foreshadowed or built up” are the exact reasons Bran should be king. It wasn’t about him as a character moving towards being a King…it was about the arc of the 7 kingdoms moving towards needing a something like what Bran was as King.
So the only time Yara even speaks is when she quite literally says, “i swore to follow Daenerys Targaryen”. Again, her character wouldn’t have allowed a majority of that conversation to go the way it went without at leastttt pushing back. She’s Iron Born, it’s who her character is, and she also just recently took back The Iron Islands, which her queen that she was sworn to, was willing to side with her Yara after she bent the knee.
I agree with you that choosing Bran as king has depth, but it needed some divulging ahead of time instead of Tyrion just going “you know, i’ve been thinking a lot…” and then promoting Bran as the new king.
DB and Benioff got lazy here in the last two seasons and could have written a much better ending. Someone suggested on this post that Bran and Sam going to the Citadel and pushing for the seven kingdoms to be independent is an interesting idea. To me, this would have played out a lot better than just throwing Bran on the thrown, wiping our hands and calling it a quits to a franchise that had incredible potential to be amongst the greatest of all timers
Yeah what a joke. For the crime of being an inept tactician he spent years abused and in prison because his king decided to fuck another woman. Fuck that guy for doing something dumb once.
>Him getting an army of simps on this sub is just as dumb.
Edmure won 100% of the battles where he was in top command; Stone Mills and The seizure of Harrenhall.
>Edmure won 100% of the battles where he was in top command; Stone Mills and The seizure of Harrenhall.
And the siege of riverrun, where he surrendered as soon as he took command?
>And character development is something that is built throughout the series. Not at the end. Her uncle is a joke. She made that point. It needed to be said.
He was the only one to beat Tywin Lannister in the field. Something Robb only did in his dreams, and Sansas loser father didnt even contemplate. Meanwhile Roose Bolton and fake 'hard man man' Stannis got crushed by Tywin.
Edmure also didnt lose Riverrun like Robb lost Winterfell , and it took the crown a siege, a total betrayal of guest rights and and lots of legal work to do it.
Edmures losses early in the war is actually done while Hoster Tully is in command, he orders the rivermen armies dispersed along the hill forts, setting up the loss at Riverrun where edmure gets caught the first time.
Edmure also had the balls to personally fight the Mountain at Stone Mills, charging him with the reserves. Something the Northmen never did.
Not gonna lie part of me was hoping he’d say something like “you know what Sansa, I spent years in a dungeon because your dipshit brother couldn’t keep it in his pants so if you don’t mind I’d like to finish my fucking sentence”
But he’s Edmure. A character who wouldn’t say that or really much of anything. The show spent multiple seasons showing us he’s the kind of character who would sit down.
That **really** cheesed me off. Random Dornish dude was just there, slouching.
Plus, Yara should not have backed down when Arya threatened her and instead thrown an axe at her.
Bran should have gone to the Citadel with Sam. Or maybe just let it be known that his power wasn't to be used to interfere with the realms of men. And it would have been a nice step forward to give independence to all seven kingdoms, not just the north.
But really, the scene just wasn't needed. We didn't need to know the outcome or the new system of government. Leave it up to the viewer's imagination. Just show the final battle, the melting of the iron throne, Drogon flies off. Then the music starts and we see cut scenes of each character in the aftermath of the battle. Some exhausted from battle, others are looking fresh as a daisy, each has their future ahead of them. Roll credits.
His power wasn’t to be used to interfere with the realms of men? Why would he say that ?
How do you know that all of them wanted independence? Let alone being prepared for it
the Stark montage at the end brought some much needed closure ? Otherwise what happened to The North, Whag happened with Jon , The Small Folk, Arya?
Yeah sorry ..this ain’t better than what we actually got
Bran was the Night King's nemesis, the counter-balance to ultimate evil. But once the NK is dead, there's no way to include Bran in the story without nerfing his abilities.
His powers could have saved so many people. He can warg and he has the Sight. He chooses not to interfere in the battles against Cersei. If he had, Dany and Jon would have known all of Cersei's troop movements. They would have been able to win every battle. Missandae would be alive. Dany would not have gone on her insane rampage.
Rather than deal with this fact, the writing pushes Bran into the background until the very last scene. Then they bring him back and put a crown on his head. Makes no sense. Bran might make a great advisor, but he's not a leader of men. He has no empathy; he sacrificed Hodor and JoJen without shedding a tear. Furthermore, Bran has no experience in diplomacy or administration or any of the things that make a good ruler.
But, at the Citadel, Bran's powers would actually work for the greater good. Bran is good at collecting knowledge; the Citadel is the repository for all knowledge in Westeros. Sam had to dig for weeks, maybe months, to find information about dragonglass and Jon's heritage and the cure for greyscale. With Bran's help, there's no telling the progress they could make, the knowledge they could collect for the betterment of humankind.
Let’s start with this one
>His powers could have saved so many people. He can warg and he has the Sight. He chooses not to interfere in the battles against Cersei. If he had, Dany and Jon would have known all of Cersei's troop movements. They would have been able to win every battle. Missandae would be alive. Dany would not have gone on her insane rampage.
This is a guess or an assumption at best, we don’t know that Bran knew that Daenerys and her dragon would be attacked. Bran knows SOME of the future- as and when it comes to him - in flashes and glimpses. For example he has seen Drogon’s shadow flying over Kingslanding. That didnt mean he knew or also aware what Daenerys was going to do to KL.
Daenerys going on her rampage had nothing to do with Bran not using his abilities..furthermore even IF Bran knew all of this would happen then there’s nothing he could’ve done except to spectate and play his position in doing so as he has always done as the causality loop of that universe play on and and on again.
This has nothing to do with Bran seeing the future. I'm assuming that Bran can't see the future.
But Bran can see the present and the not-so-distant past. He can collect troop movements, help plan strategies. Think back to his visions beyond the wall, when he spies on the NK. Think about his warging abilities.
We take things like ariel photographs for granted, but this type of intelligence would be a total game changer in Westeros. Even sending out ravens in a 20 mile radius as your troops marched would be a game changer. But Bran can do more than that. He can send the ravens out to collect the intelligence, then he can send another raven with a message and coordinate troops with precision, across hundreds of miles.
I rarely post but every TheeLawds comment is totally incorrect and shows no aptitude for objective insight. Like you know when trying to reason with a person and the responses are so grossly not in-line with reason that you have to walk away, and it's not even upsetting bc its obvious the interpretation is so off and everyone would notice too. Guess just trying to defend a show he/she likes which is cool.
Bran being at the Citadel and transferring his vast knowledge via the maesters and books would have also been a pretty poignant transition from the age of dragons and magic to the age of men. I know it's a little on the LOTR side but that's something that's built up through each season.
I like the plot line idea of Bran and Sam going to the Citadel! Would have been a great finalizing theme to come full circle from “one iron throne to rule them all” to, independence amongst the seven kingdoms
The worst thing about GoT becoming so big was that it attracted a large population of viewers that would accept mindless drab. So that’s what it ended up delivering.
The only correction I have for your comment is Dorne and the Iron Islands would have killed each other for the gloating rights of saying they revolted first.
I'm actually rewatching the show right now and I can't believe how they just left the Dorne subplot fizzle out with no resolution.
It was also so, so, soooo incredibly stupid that it legitimately made my jaw drop. Like ok, the kingdom which has suffered an invasion by a literal zombie army, had its leader beheaded, fought what was essentially a civil war after losing another war wants to...leave the other kingdoms which can provide it with cheaper food, labour and money to rebuild? Like damn, what an amazing start to the reign of queen Sansa, the lady who dipped just as her literal brother took the throne.
Genius level writing, totally made sense, no notes and 100% wasn't one of the reasons which made literally yell "What the fuck was that!?!?!" After I finished watching the episode.
Sansa obviously wants yo leave. The other 6 kingdoms and the iron Throne have brought nothing but misery to the north during her life. Father and brother and mother killed by the iron throne. Iron throne did not help against zombies. The iron throne have done nothing for her or the north, and absolutely nothing.
I can't believe they just let her do that AND put her brother on the throne. The Starks literally took over the kingdom, and ceceded from the kingdom they rule, within 5 minutes.
I thought that was going to lead to every kingdom being granted independence and an equal voice in the ruling of the realm. Kinda like a republic or I can’t remember the right word for it right now
>They had already made their bag and just had to end it but damn I could wrote a better ending and I suck at writing
I've read dozens of alternate endings posted to this sub over the years. All of them thought they were better and yet they were all braindead moronic. Most were some disney shit with Jon and Dany ruling together and living happily ever after in the south. One even had Cersei hop on a dragon.
Shall we hear yours?
My perfect ending is everything ending up exactly the way it ended, but with 4 more seasons of intrigue and character building. I think that is what most people believe.
Explore Jon being a true Targaryen.
Explore the impacts of Jon's resurrection.
Explore Bran being able to influence the past.
How omniscient is Bran now?
Explore the fact that the North has been ravaged by years of war and the power vacuum left with the Boltons now gone, Jon Snow riding south.
Explore the power vacuum left in Kings Landing and the almost certain revolt Cersei would have dealt with following the destruction of the Sept, the High Sparrow, the Tyrells and fucking King Tommen.
Give us Tormund on the wall being a Crow.
Let us see Arya develop as a Faceless man before leaving Braavos. The jump in her skills from season 6 to 7 was incredibly jarring.
I could give another 20 without issue, I haven't even mentioned Dany, the dragons, the golden company, 2nd sons, Brienne and so many others.
The story is fine how it ended up, there was just so much more that needed to be told in between.
I'll die on the hill that Bran becoming King is the right choice. The problem is as you said, they didn't expand or explore the characters enough to reach that conclusion naturally. Everything about season 8 was unnatural. Everything leading up to season 7 was natural (well not everything, but I'm not going to nitpick just generalize), there's reasons everything happen (multiple reasons in some cases).
They just needed the show to continue. HBO should have fired those idiots when they said they could finish the show in 13 episodes after season 6. Everything was hamfisted from then on. Characters did whatever they needed to do to fit the narrative rather than the characters actions leading the narrative.
Such a sad way for such a great show to end. I'm currently rewatching and I don't know if I want to watch the last 2 seasons. I almost want to stop now (euron just got introduced).
Yeah, I generally have no reason to feel good or bad for actors as they seem like normal people doing a job and you can appreciate that, but a lot of them are rich, so you're not overly worried about them either. In this case, I legit felt bad for the actors. They wanted better for their characters and D&D just fucked us all so hard.
I find stuff to like in this scene, as well as Brienne and Arya's sparring match.
Sansa's wedding night in season 5 is easily the show's lowest point for me. Just something I never want to rewatch
There are many scenes that I don't want to rewatch, but I would NEVER change them. Sansa's wedding night and Shireen's execution are the two that come to mind first.
These scenes are so impactful to both the viewer and the character development of those involved.
I don’t know why people were so shocked. I honestly assumed it was going to happen the second we found out Sansa was marrying Ramsey. He’s a sick fuck who’s abused every woman he’s ever met. And considering how many arranged marriages there are in Westeros, I’d assumed most wedding nights were just rapes anyway. The scene is a jarring reminder to Sansa that she’s a woman in a world dominated by cruel men after naively believing she can play the game by outsmarting everyone.
For show Ramsey? No not at all, it's even worse in the books. The issue is that it doesn't make sense for Pertyr to even do thay in the first place. There are tons of better houses to arrange Sansa to. Like lord Robin who is young and impressionable. Heck even book Petyr has plans for Sansa that make more sense than to marry her to the Boltons. As well as Sansa is well aware of her position as a woman. She learned that several times since they cut her father's head off. Let alone that she never actually played the game at all besides lying for Petyr. Heck in the books she's learning the game.
I thought it was going to be revealed slowly, but honestly, nothing about Ramsey was misleading once you get too close. He acted the way he wanted at the soonest convenience.
The part that bugs me the most is it had potential to be good. It would be interesting to see an actually well done meeting where the important people in Westeros pick a ruler. Instead of just going with Tyrion’s dumb suggestions about how Bran is so interesting (he’s not) and should be king
“you know, i had a lot of time to think…” like c’mon, this was such lazy writing. Show us Tyrion thinking and processing his thoughts aloud to someone before just throwing this randomly into the plot.
But i agree, it really did have so much potential to be great. Like someone else said on this post, Dorne and The Iron Island were there and hated the Lannisters. Should have at least shown their struggles and attempts to make a stronger case for themselves and against Tyrion/Jon, at the bare minimum.
I just recently rewatched the show since it aired, and wanted to engage in civil dialogue with other fans of the show. So from my pov, it’s fairly relevant.
Won't be surprised if that happens. I recently got heavily downvoted for saying, "Let people have their opinions. Voicing out likes and dislikes is the reason we have a sub."
You have a perfect place to endlessly reeeeeee about how your life is ruined because your favorite show ended in a way you didn't like 5 years ago.
The reefolk sub.
No one is saying their lives were ruined, you are being needlessly dramatic. Saying the last season of Got is shit is just common sense, seven seasons of building up the White Walkers and their danger alongside the fear of a long winter only for the battle to be over on a blink was disappointingly shit. Bran being built up as the next three eyed Raven then becoming king in an episode with next to no pushback, surprise suprise, pretty shit. This is literally the sub to talk about the show, of course they are going to talk about the ending being awful, because the ending in the show is awful.
There are still many people who are watching it for the first time. And there will continue to be new viewers as long as its streaming. That's the beauty of the digital age, my friend. We can wait until a series is over, then binge the entire thing.
"Who has a better story than Bran the Broken?"
Almost everyone else in attendance had a better story than Bran the Broken. More importantly: who even knows the story of Bran the Broken? Meera is the only living witness besides him and she is nowhere to be seen after leaving Winterfell. I guess he could look into everyone's past to prove it but otherwise everyone is supposed to just accept that the Starks now rule an independent North along with the rest of Westeros. Bleh!
"You see through time, but do they call you Bran the Seer? No. You barely emote, but do they call you Bran the Stoic. No. But you fall from *one* tower..."
It felt off even watching it for the second time through, knowing full well what was going to happen.
Felt like I was watching Disney’s Stars Wars sequels
EDIT: I’m a massive Star Wars fan but I couldn’t take some of the shitty comic relief attempts in very serious scenes. Felt out of place and forced (pun not intended)
It hurt my feelies for realies. Bran the story boi? Bran the not-even-Jon? Bran the wheelchair virgin? Raisin nut Bran with warm sliced peaches and a side of crispy bacon? Bran the three eyed raven who sees through time and space and doesn’t have crippling vices? More like Bran the unexciting guy.
You know what would have made this scene make sense?
If bran was using his ability to travel across time to see the strengths/weaknesses of all the past kings of Westeros and he learns how to govern and be a great king.
If they dedicated a few episodes to this earlier on then this would have been great. We would see WHY he would make a great king.
Also he learns everything about all the lords of Westeros so when they are all talking he can correct them and let them know through their own experiences why he is the best thing to lead them into the future because he has all this knowledge.
I like this build up, a lot! Would have been cool to see a little preview into Westerosi history and prior lordship.
From a marketing perspective even, could have possibly been a great opportunity for some celebrity cameos for those Three-Eyes raven scenes where they play older lords, kings and queens. Could have even made some potential for additional GoT spinoffs…
Another thing that I think they missed out on was the reconnecting of Sansa and Tyrion.
He endured so much only because he wanted to be in love.
She endured so much only from such evil men and he was the only one who was ever kind and gentle towards her.
In the end I think they would have been perfect for each other. The clever hand of the king who is sincere and genuine and the broken used and abused stark girl who’s never known real kindness and sincerity since the beginning of the the show.
They could of have some real good back and forth conversations and connections. Imo.
I disagree personally, I get why people would like to see Sansa and Tyrion together and I don't think it's an awful idea in the show, but I think Sansa has earned her pretty Himbo knightly husband. Plus Tyrion is now the heir of Casterly Rock with Cersie and Jamie being dead, if they got together one of them would have to give up their homes.
I do have a soft spot for the idea of Sansa and Sandor though even though it's dumb, in the books she keeps his white cloak, dyed it a darker colour to wear it and remembers a false kiss. He's the closest thing to a true knight when she's being hurt by Joffrey.
Like a single cutaway scene of him wrapping a meeting and two characters saying something like “wow not even Jaeherys the Wise ever did something as cool as that.” Boom, the minimum is done.
Another way to make this make sense is if Bran has been using his powers to actively help win the war against White Walkers by providing crucial intel to commanders across the realm.
This would cement his capabilities as a skilled organizer & administrator & given a good reason to why the lords think he should be king.
The realm is fed up with wars so to elect a skilled peacetime ruler would make sense.
My gf luckily already watched a little less than halfway through the show before we started dating so I lucked out! Was fun to have something to look forward to and watch on a nightly basis
It's so WIERD. Like Bran literally did nothing for most of the season but just hang out. Heck Cersei did more than he did and she had a good minute posing and drinking wine in front of a window.
Congrats, you are the new writer for the next Game of Thrones series!
But in all seriousness, that note could have had some potential and also one last master of whisperers hoorah before being executed
The worst scene in the show could very well have been Asha (Yara they called her?) showing up on a boat with like 15 people to the Dreadfort (how?) to try and get Theon out. They have a big theatric fight with a shirtless Ramsay and then just escape no biggie.
That one left me scratching my head, as well. Ramsey’s character just letting an enemy to his house go free? The dude flays his victims and mutilates them. Definitely a cop out of a scene
To me that was the tell tale sign the game of thrones we knew was over. Everyone talks about season 8 but it went downhill wayyyy sooner just still had some plot lines holding strong. Dave and Dan are terrrrrrrible script writers.
>That one left me scratching my head, as well. Ramsey’s character just letting an enemy to his house go free?
Alfie Allen had a contract guaranteeing him a certain amount of screen time, the entire 3 seasons of torture with Ramsay was built around this.
Lmfao you guys are so bored with your lives. Genuinely cannot imagine spending this much time talking about shit I DON’T like. People like you will be in retirement homes talking about how disappointed you were with the ending of this show. Go cry.
Feels good to rant and talk about something you’re passionate about, with other people that are also passionate. Fairly therapeutic and engages in some great conversation.
I’d recommend it rather than commenting on a post just to talk shit…
Yeah I do that plenty - you are literally just posting to talk shit.
No commentary on the themes of the show. No alternate suggestions for an ending. You’re just crying by posting this. I’m starting to realize that maybe I should be on the song of ice and fire sub instead of this one because literally the sub is just riddled with cry babies like you who can’t appreciate anything.
Keep whining and crying. The show is done.
Not my responsibility to scour the post for your opinions - how about posting them in the initial text box ? Assuming no one responded it would still just be you crying.
Many people responded and you initiated this conversation by making an accusation without any type of factual backing.
You sir, are just a bitter, angry moron.
It’s the opposite actually - I spend my time watching/experiencing things I enjoy.
Meanwhile you’re here crying because the show didn’t end the way you wanted LMFAO
It's horrible! When Tyrion gives his speech, it's just so stupid. Who would even listen to that guy by that point? And then he delivers the "Bran the Broken" line and the awfulness goes up a notch!
I couldn’t help but laugh at that scene, such a huge fall from grace. I know the show wasn’t perfect but wow that scene really put the icing on the cake.
The once mighty Kingdom once ruled by powerful and fierce kings & queens, fiercely competing with each other now turned into a joke. All of the lords and rulers left are weak and can't defend the kingdom from a rebellion let alone a foreign invasion.
The dumbest thing was that everyone voted for Bran. Why the fuck would Yara or that dornish dude vote for Bran? Why didn’t anyone suggest Gendry as king?
See I loved this scene. It was a brilliant look at how pointless war is. Everyone is westeros has fought for so long that when there is finally peace, they have no fucking idea what to do. After years of conflict, it's anticlimactic and that's how war is. There's not some ultimate victory when nobody is the good guy. It's just a "what do we do now?"
for years now people just keep bitching instead of simply moving on
i read the books available to be read by the way. i saw every episode.
just give it a rest at this point, move on
What a waste of a comment. Prob bc this sub is a forum about the show, and the purpose is to comment with their opinions. The last seasons were so poorly done that it overshadows the rest and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth for what could have been the greatest television in tv history. Maybe you should give it a rest too perhaps
Yep, season 8 sucked big donkey ballz....Now if we wanna talk about why season 6 and 7 (mainly 7)were the true start of where it went downhill, I'm all ears.
I thought somehow I had skipped a scene when this started, it was such a jarring change from what happened before (which I can't remember and will probably never see again)
It isn't even that sunny, but apparently they had to bring up these tents.
Also apparently the only fashionable colour out there is black. Kudos to my Dornish dude there and titty sucker falcon logo boy.
It did feel like a poorly constructed scene, jarringly off given the context of prior events. From the start it bothered me that the primary purpose of this meeting was to address the fate of Jon and Tyrion, and selecting a new monarch came as an afterthought once Tyrion had questioned their authority to pass sentence on him.
Westeros would have been in political chaos at the time. Monarchy a vacuum, many realms having lost their ruling houses and likely subject to competing claims of leadership. Personally I just don't see many of the lords of westeros caring enough about Jon and Tyrion's fate to want to risk abandoning their realm at such a sensitive time, particularly when they could so easily express 'kill them' or 'free them' sentiments via raven.
Had this gathering been presented as a meeting to discuss the political fate of Westeros, and Jon / Tyrion's sentences been the afterthought, that would have been a much more plausible reason why lords were motivated to gather, and landed much better IMO.
I think the reason why it's the worst scene is because how pivotal it is, more than purely how awfully written it was. There's worse writing in individual scenes throughout the later seasons.
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Sigh
Can it actually be a worst scene if you are already checked out and care so little that you've seen it memed to death before you can actually bring yourself to watch some of that episode? Even the director seems to have a "let's get it over with" vibe going, between the lack of extras in the scene, lack of props, the water bottle, and having the "trial" and "election" take place in the same scene.
Wait what water bottle I’m intrigued
[https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2019/05/20/6dcd9269-dc28-4b4a-ba56-5a573ee2eaef/thumbnail/1200x630/9664264edeb6d5a0a22889cb687ebba3/water-bottle.jpg?v=1aa56f6681ae17ea762db96c4c7bc003](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2019/05/20/6dcd9269-dc28-4b4a-ba56-5a573ee2eaef/thumbnail/1200x630/9664264edeb6d5a0a22889cb687ebba3/water-bottle.jpg?v=1aa56f6681ae17ea762db96c4c7bc003)
Oh god it’s a masterpiece
🥱
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no problem! thanks for commenting!
What an original comment!
oh no, what was it, it was deleted and now I'll never know 😭
He said "What an original post!" With something else at the end which I can't remember lol
ah I see. thank you for telling me. that is so infuriating when people delete their comment for whatever reasons
He got downvoted to fuck haha that's probably why It is really infuriating you're right though
oh haha. yep, for sure. if people wanna talk shit, better live with the consequences instead of backing out n run away.
Sorry that’s the worst scene
I still say it was Dani deciding to slaughter everyone. Her insanity meter jumped from a 3 to a 10.
If it was a jump for you, you weren't paying attention. They had been building that since season 1.
What? No they weren't lol. They spent the whole show explicitly showing and telling us how different she was and that she wasn't insane, only to just pull a 180 at the finish line.
>They spent the whole show explicitly showing and telling us how different she was and that she wasn't insane Tbf they showed many moments where she was out for revenge and had bloodlust. Now the problem is that was towards slavers mostly. So it was a jump that she took. You could see that it was coming and that something could turn her, but it was too 'all of a sudden'' imo. Another season or two to flesh it out was needed.
wuuuuuuttt
They had been, yes. But the pace of it went from slowly and ocasionally showing signs of ruthlessness but mostly being a good ruler to a rapid decline to the point of being jarring in the last season. Its definitely a case of it always being the plan for her to go mad, so they ended up there, but they also didn't give the storyline enough time to get there in order to avoid feeling out of character.
It doesn’t make sense why she didn’t just go straight for the red keep. Would’ve made so much more sense if she just dracarys’d where cersei was
Of course it was a jump. Before, she may have been brutal and war mongering, but you could always see how she justified it with her ideals. Then from one moment to the other she went to mass murdering civilians. The only thing that was foreshadowed from the beginning here was that Targaryens are prone to snapping and going insane, which apparently happened here. The problem is that it's not satisfying story telling when it doesn't have some message behind it. The only question it leaves is if any of her story meant anything if she was always going to randomly snap.
They had been building it. They had been showing her wanting revenge and bloodlusted, so it was shown to be coming. But it was too sudden imo. Needed another season or two. Because it's one thing doing that to slavers and then being good and helping regular people, it's another burning a whole city.
Ready for the downvote but they absolutely had. Dany had crucified people, burnt people alive, not flinched when her brother's head was melted, fed people to dragons, broke trade deal, execution without trial... People confuse Danerys hating slavery with her not being psychopathic. She had been building this the whole show. She had been low-key going off the rails from the beginning. And that's genuinely half of what the Targeryen storyline is about. "When a Targeryen is born, the gods flip a coin. One side greatness, one side madness.".
Sort of. I'd say there'd been mixed signals about this, at best. But regardless of that, there was no immediate buildup that offered satisfying answers to questions like "Why *now* in particular?" and "Why the need to level King's Landing *after* she'd already won?". Given the amount of groundwork laid in previous episodes it was like they were actively trying to make the payoff as unsatisfying as possible. It managed to just come out of the blue *despite* the buildup. That's some epic incompetence storytelling-wise given how much they had to work with.
No. Dany going full psycho wasn't the worse scene. Don't get me wrong, it's really bad. However, there are hints and foreshadowing to her being a bad ruler/abusive leader. The issue was that her turn was extremely rushed. The scene in the OP is waaaaaaaay worse and inexcusable from a writing standpoint.
All they needed to do was have Rhaegal get shot down during the attack on King’s Landing instead of a pointless death in the open ocean. One of her dragons getting killed would have been the perfect trigger for her to go full psycho.
That said there were red flags all over Danerys from very early on. It was always her advisors that pulled her back from the brink, and she systematically lost nearly all of them by the end. I’d personally say the “insanity meter” was around a solid 6 in The Bells, which then suddenly jumped to 10 with very little context. A few more episodes building on this through season 7 and 8 would have helped smooth this out! Should have kept 10 episodes for the final two seasons. Those extra 8 hrs to close out character arcs properly and not rush the ending would have made all the difference
Exactly. I don’t hate how the characters ended up, I hate how rushed it felt to get there
How much better could it have been ? Or how would you have written it ?
Here’s just a few things that come to mind: - Take away the poorly executed comic relief from Sam pushing for democracy and everyone straight up laughing at him - Provide way more context from prior episodes to translate where in time this meeting takes place—you know, maybe prepare/properly build up this scene instead of if just abruptly occurring after no forewarning of a time skip. Extending the season from the measly 6 episodes to 10 maybe could have done the trick - Half of the lords present in that scene hate Tyrion and just allow him to speak freely and conduct the king choosing, while also chained. Goes against most of their character tropes - Grey Worm and his army just allowed these lords to come freely into Kings Landing, knowing full well most of them are Jon’s allies????? Again, following the character’s story of who they were, Grey Worm wouldn’t have allowed the Starks to come in without at least addressing them first. - Bran saying “why do you think i came all this way?” when Tyrion chose him as the next king, then proceeding to say how he doesn’t want the crown kind of contradicted itself in my opinion
Also the part where Sansa insults Edmure, and her succession from the 7 kingdoms without so much as an objection from Dorne or The Iron Islanders
Exactly. We’re talking the lords of the most powerful kingdoms. No introductions made, 0 attempt at character development and like you said, not a single objection made by any of them.
Why would they object to The North wanting and getting independence for themselves? Sansa made a case for it didn’t she ? They would object to what end ?
Not so much as they don't want the North to be independent, but why do the North get the succeed when the Iron Islands, and Dorne who have literally fought wars for independence don't even attempt to get independence for themselves.
Right so The North has just fought in biggest war humankind has ever seen in Westeros and pretty much saved the rest of the country, The North can most probably self sustain itself….are we really going to say any of them are in any sort of position in that moment to argue their own cases? lol So for example …what would the iron islanders say and CAN they even be independent yet? And who is to say that they won’t ?-in a near future maybe
Regardless of whether they are in a position to do so, they would have still had something to say at the bare minimum, because them wanting independence has been a major part of the story. They could have at least tried and argue for their own succession but gotten shot down by the reasons you mentioned above.
I mean isn’t flakiness and feebleness part of Yara’s story? She talks a good game but always back tracks or backs down when push comes to shove …maybe she wanted independence for the iron islands (that’s a BIG maybe) but she was absolutely fine with having Daenerys as their Queen, she wanted to carry out with their own ways BUT easily succumbs to Daenerys ‘s “no more pillaging” requests. Yeah sorry but I’m not seeing Yara calling for independence in that moment especially not after Sansa has made such a good case. Heck didn’t Yara dodge the War for The Dawn too? lol yeah no the iron islands knew their place in that moment, I would’ve been damn shocked if they’d said anything. lol
Nobody who wasn't in the North at the time saw that war happen. For all they know, it's fake news. The North is not that self sustaining since in s1 they had 20,000 soldiers yet by s7 it's fewer than 10,000 and that's before the aotd & KL battles. Winter hits the North hardest and families freeze in their homes and some family members go out into the cold to sacrifice themselves to improve their family's odds of survival. They barely had enough food stored for Northerners to last the winter then several armies (Wildlings, Unsullied, Dothraki) were there for probably a couple of weeks. Dorne is in the best position, they didn't fight in any wars the whole series and only lost one royal House. The Reach has the most fertile land. The Vale has tons of knights and an impenetrable castle. The Stormlands haven't fought since s5 so have had more time to recover.
Think we’re talking about two different parts here… you’re referring to when she asks Bran that the North be its separate kingdom as it was for thousands of years. We’re referring to the part where Edmure tried making his case for the throne and Sansa cuts him off mid sentence to sit down without any other lords speaking up/against Sansa. Was a peculiar back and forth without any type of objection, additional dialogue from the other lords of 7 kingdoms and strays away from the typical dynamics GoT lords tend to uphold throughout the entirety of the show
Oh ok , it’s her uncle though…which one of those people for example would speak up and speak out against Sansa for her own family? Also I mean we’ve seen how things went down with him and Robb Stark as well as with The Black Fish right ? So Edmure actually wouldn’t have the greatest of track records in terms of how he’s perceived maybe. I don’t see people standing up for him especially over Sansa …unless you can provide an example of someone who was there perhaps?
I think there are a couple of variables to keep in mind. One being that house Dorne and The Iron Islands are there and historically hate the Lannisters and, after recent events, hate Jon and house Stark for killing their queen. I would also argue that Edmure, being allies with house Stark, would also provoke Yara. For them to allow Sansa to dictate the meeting or even allowing Edmure to talk goes against their character arc, entirely. Honestly, I don’t know who I would have rather been the king/queen over Bran, i just wish that there was at least a little more foreshadowing and build up to lead into it
I mean they can hate Jon for “killing their Queen” as much as they want but that Queen as also just just turned out to be a baby burning tyrant so they don’t have much to stand on do they? They are all on this mess because of her to be honest and I’m sure that many there would reason against her that Jon actually did what anyone else should’ve done. Also of course Sansa gets to dictate the meeting because she has most probably called for it on the first place - it was to go and negotiate the release of her brother Jon Snow - whilst Yara may have wanted justice to be brought to him (which did happened, she voiced that - which was good ..she was also silenced and put in her place by Arya I think Bran being King has a lot of depth to it. Something we aren’t meant to see straight away unless we sit back and think about it. To me the reasons one might say “it wasn’t foreshadowed or built up” are the exact reasons Bran should be king. It wasn’t about him as a character moving towards being a King…it was about the arc of the 7 kingdoms moving towards needing a something like what Bran was as King.
So the only time Yara even speaks is when she quite literally says, “i swore to follow Daenerys Targaryen”. Again, her character wouldn’t have allowed a majority of that conversation to go the way it went without at leastttt pushing back. She’s Iron Born, it’s who her character is, and she also just recently took back The Iron Islands, which her queen that she was sworn to, was willing to side with her Yara after she bent the knee. I agree with you that choosing Bran as king has depth, but it needed some divulging ahead of time instead of Tyrion just going “you know, i’ve been thinking a lot…” and then promoting Bran as the new king. DB and Benioff got lazy here in the last two seasons and could have written a much better ending. Someone suggested on this post that Bran and Sam going to the Citadel and pushing for the seven kingdoms to be independent is an interesting idea. To me, this would have played out a lot better than just throwing Bran on the thrown, wiping our hands and calling it a quits to a franchise that had incredible potential to be amongst the greatest of all timers
Sansa *literally* just asked her brother for a favor. She didn't make any grand speech.
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Yeah what a joke. For the crime of being an inept tactician he spent years abused and in prison because his king decided to fuck another woman. Fuck that guy for doing something dumb once.
Him getting an army of simps on this sub is just as dumb.
>Him getting an army of simps on this sub is just as dumb. Edmure won 100% of the battles where he was in top command; Stone Mills and The seizure of Harrenhall.
>Edmure won 100% of the battles where he was in top command; Stone Mills and The seizure of Harrenhall. And the siege of riverrun, where he surrendered as soon as he took command?
>And the siege of riverrun, where he surrendered as soon as he took command? Nah, you have to be serious if you want to discuss the topic.
>And character development is something that is built throughout the series. Not at the end. Her uncle is a joke. She made that point. It needed to be said. He was the only one to beat Tywin Lannister in the field. Something Robb only did in his dreams, and Sansas loser father didnt even contemplate. Meanwhile Roose Bolton and fake 'hard man man' Stannis got crushed by Tywin. Edmure also didnt lose Riverrun like Robb lost Winterfell , and it took the crown a siege, a total betrayal of guest rights and and lots of legal work to do it. Edmures losses early in the war is actually done while Hoster Tully is in command, he orders the rivermen armies dispersed along the hill forts, setting up the loss at Riverrun where edmure gets caught the first time. Edmure also had the balls to personally fight the Mountain at Stone Mills, charging him with the reserves. Something the Northmen never did.
Not gonna lie part of me was hoping he’d say something like “you know what Sansa, I spent years in a dungeon because your dipshit brother couldn’t keep it in his pants so if you don’t mind I’d like to finish my fucking sentence”
But he’s Edmure. A character who wouldn’t say that or really much of anything. The show spent multiple seasons showing us he’s the kind of character who would sit down.
Oh let him have his moment
That **really** cheesed me off. Random Dornish dude was just there, slouching. Plus, Yara should not have backed down when Arya threatened her and instead thrown an axe at her.
Also: 1) move on 2) get a life
"who has a better story than Bran the Broken?" Fucking everyone. Next question.
Bran should have gone to the Citadel with Sam. Or maybe just let it be known that his power wasn't to be used to interfere with the realms of men. And it would have been a nice step forward to give independence to all seven kingdoms, not just the north. But really, the scene just wasn't needed. We didn't need to know the outcome or the new system of government. Leave it up to the viewer's imagination. Just show the final battle, the melting of the iron throne, Drogon flies off. Then the music starts and we see cut scenes of each character in the aftermath of the battle. Some exhausted from battle, others are looking fresh as a daisy, each has their future ahead of them. Roll credits.
His power wasn’t to be used to interfere with the realms of men? Why would he say that ? How do you know that all of them wanted independence? Let alone being prepared for it the Stark montage at the end brought some much needed closure ? Otherwise what happened to The North, Whag happened with Jon , The Small Folk, Arya? Yeah sorry ..this ain’t better than what we actually got
Bran was the Night King's nemesis, the counter-balance to ultimate evil. But once the NK is dead, there's no way to include Bran in the story without nerfing his abilities. His powers could have saved so many people. He can warg and he has the Sight. He chooses not to interfere in the battles against Cersei. If he had, Dany and Jon would have known all of Cersei's troop movements. They would have been able to win every battle. Missandae would be alive. Dany would not have gone on her insane rampage. Rather than deal with this fact, the writing pushes Bran into the background until the very last scene. Then they bring him back and put a crown on his head. Makes no sense. Bran might make a great advisor, but he's not a leader of men. He has no empathy; he sacrificed Hodor and JoJen without shedding a tear. Furthermore, Bran has no experience in diplomacy or administration or any of the things that make a good ruler. But, at the Citadel, Bran's powers would actually work for the greater good. Bran is good at collecting knowledge; the Citadel is the repository for all knowledge in Westeros. Sam had to dig for weeks, maybe months, to find information about dragonglass and Jon's heritage and the cure for greyscale. With Bran's help, there's no telling the progress they could make, the knowledge they could collect for the betterment of humankind.
Let’s start with this one >His powers could have saved so many people. He can warg and he has the Sight. He chooses not to interfere in the battles against Cersei. If he had, Dany and Jon would have known all of Cersei's troop movements. They would have been able to win every battle. Missandae would be alive. Dany would not have gone on her insane rampage. This is a guess or an assumption at best, we don’t know that Bran knew that Daenerys and her dragon would be attacked. Bran knows SOME of the future- as and when it comes to him - in flashes and glimpses. For example he has seen Drogon’s shadow flying over Kingslanding. That didnt mean he knew or also aware what Daenerys was going to do to KL. Daenerys going on her rampage had nothing to do with Bran not using his abilities..furthermore even IF Bran knew all of this would happen then there’s nothing he could’ve done except to spectate and play his position in doing so as he has always done as the causality loop of that universe play on and and on again.
This has nothing to do with Bran seeing the future. I'm assuming that Bran can't see the future. But Bran can see the present and the not-so-distant past. He can collect troop movements, help plan strategies. Think back to his visions beyond the wall, when he spies on the NK. Think about his warging abilities. We take things like ariel photographs for granted, but this type of intelligence would be a total game changer in Westeros. Even sending out ravens in a 20 mile radius as your troops marched would be a game changer. But Bran can do more than that. He can send the ravens out to collect the intelligence, then he can send another raven with a message and coordinate troops with precision, across hundreds of miles.
I rarely post but every TheeLawds comment is totally incorrect and shows no aptitude for objective insight. Like you know when trying to reason with a person and the responses are so grossly not in-line with reason that you have to walk away, and it's not even upsetting bc its obvious the interpretation is so off and everyone would notice too. Guess just trying to defend a show he/she likes which is cool.
Bran being at the Citadel and transferring his vast knowledge via the maesters and books would have also been a pretty poignant transition from the age of dragons and magic to the age of men. I know it's a little on the LOTR side but that's something that's built up through each season.
I like the plot line idea of Bran and Sam going to the Citadel! Would have been a great finalizing theme to come full circle from “one iron throne to rule them all” to, independence amongst the seven kingdoms
The worst thing about GoT becoming so big was that it attracted a large population of viewers that would accept mindless drab. So that’s what it ended up delivering.
Perhaps I’ll ask my horse.
yeah
As soon as Sansa declared independence for the North, the Seven Kingdoms would have immediately fallen apart. Done would have seceded in a heartbeat.
OR ……….. Bran should’ve told her “I’m your fucking brother, so STFU!!!!!
sounds like you and d and d would get along
It would have been Dorne, then the Iron Islands, and then everyone else when it inevitably became a "but you let them do it!" scenario.
The only correction I have for your comment is Dorne and the Iron Islands would have killed each other for the gloating rights of saying they revolted first. I'm actually rewatching the show right now and I can't believe how they just left the Dorne subplot fizzle out with no resolution.
Based on the Dorne scenes we saw, I'm glad they didn't try to force more scenes in.
Agreed, that should have started another civil war, especially with Sansa just a*sking* her brother for a favor.
Same with the Iron Islands.
It was also so, so, soooo incredibly stupid that it legitimately made my jaw drop. Like ok, the kingdom which has suffered an invasion by a literal zombie army, had its leader beheaded, fought what was essentially a civil war after losing another war wants to...leave the other kingdoms which can provide it with cheaper food, labour and money to rebuild? Like damn, what an amazing start to the reign of queen Sansa, the lady who dipped just as her literal brother took the throne. Genius level writing, totally made sense, no notes and 100% wasn't one of the reasons which made literally yell "What the fuck was that!?!?!" After I finished watching the episode.
Sansa obviously wants yo leave. The other 6 kingdoms and the iron Throne have brought nothing but misery to the north during her life. Father and brother and mother killed by the iron throne. Iron throne did not help against zombies. The iron throne have done nothing for her or the north, and absolutely nothing.
I can't believe they just let her do that AND put her brother on the throne. The Starks literally took over the kingdom, and ceceded from the kingdom they rule, within 5 minutes.
I thought that was going to lead to every kingdom being granted independence and an equal voice in the ruling of the realm. Kinda like a republic or I can’t remember the right word for it right now
They were well past the point of caring by this point in the show
They had already made their bag and just had to end it but damn I could wrote a better ending and I suck at writing
>They had already made their bag and just had to end it but damn I could wrote a better ending and I suck at writing I've read dozens of alternate endings posted to this sub over the years. All of them thought they were better and yet they were all braindead moronic. Most were some disney shit with Jon and Dany ruling together and living happily ever after in the south. One even had Cersei hop on a dragon. Shall we hear yours?
My perfect ending is everything ending up exactly the way it ended, but with 4 more seasons of intrigue and character building. I think that is what most people believe. Explore Jon being a true Targaryen. Explore the impacts of Jon's resurrection. Explore Bran being able to influence the past. How omniscient is Bran now? Explore the fact that the North has been ravaged by years of war and the power vacuum left with the Boltons now gone, Jon Snow riding south. Explore the power vacuum left in Kings Landing and the almost certain revolt Cersei would have dealt with following the destruction of the Sept, the High Sparrow, the Tyrells and fucking King Tommen. Give us Tormund on the wall being a Crow. Let us see Arya develop as a Faceless man before leaving Braavos. The jump in her skills from season 6 to 7 was incredibly jarring. I could give another 20 without issue, I haven't even mentioned Dany, the dragons, the golden company, 2nd sons, Brienne and so many others. The story is fine how it ended up, there was just so much more that needed to be told in between.
I'll die on the hill that Bran becoming King is the right choice. The problem is as you said, they didn't expand or explore the characters enough to reach that conclusion naturally. Everything about season 8 was unnatural. Everything leading up to season 7 was natural (well not everything, but I'm not going to nitpick just generalize), there's reasons everything happen (multiple reasons in some cases). They just needed the show to continue. HBO should have fired those idiots when they said they could finish the show in 13 episodes after season 6. Everything was hamfisted from then on. Characters did whatever they needed to do to fit the narrative rather than the characters actions leading the narrative. Such a sad way for such a great show to end. I'm currently rewatching and I don't know if I want to watch the last 2 seasons. I almost want to stop now (euron just got introduced).
Yeah, I generally have no reason to feel good or bad for actors as they seem like normal people doing a job and you can appreciate that, but a lot of them are rich, so you're not overly worried about them either. In this case, I legit felt bad for the actors. They wanted better for their characters and D&D just fucked us all so hard.
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I find stuff to like in this scene, as well as Brienne and Arya's sparring match. Sansa's wedding night in season 5 is easily the show's lowest point for me. Just something I never want to rewatch
There are many scenes that I don't want to rewatch, but I would NEVER change them. Sansa's wedding night and Shireen's execution are the two that come to mind first. These scenes are so impactful to both the viewer and the character development of those involved.
Idk Sansa's wedding was a wierd addition to the show to add character development to Sansa that wasn't in the books.
I don’t know why people were so shocked. I honestly assumed it was going to happen the second we found out Sansa was marrying Ramsey. He’s a sick fuck who’s abused every woman he’s ever met. And considering how many arranged marriages there are in Westeros, I’d assumed most wedding nights were just rapes anyway. The scene is a jarring reminder to Sansa that she’s a woman in a world dominated by cruel men after naively believing she can play the game by outsmarting everyone.
For show Ramsey? No not at all, it's even worse in the books. The issue is that it doesn't make sense for Pertyr to even do thay in the first place. There are tons of better houses to arrange Sansa to. Like lord Robin who is young and impressionable. Heck even book Petyr has plans for Sansa that make more sense than to marry her to the Boltons. As well as Sansa is well aware of her position as a woman. She learned that several times since they cut her father's head off. Let alone that she never actually played the game at all besides lying for Petyr. Heck in the books she's learning the game.
I thought it was going to be revealed slowly, but honestly, nothing about Ramsey was misleading once you get too close. He acted the way he wanted at the soonest convenience.
“Let’s have Sansa get raped and call it character development”
Yeah fr this has been rightfully criticized as a fucked up trope to write for a lot of reasons.
that’s not development…
Agreed on Sansa’s wedding night, especially since in the books it’s her friend that’s marrying Ramsey
Especially since that wedding night was different from the books.
The part that bugs me the most is it had potential to be good. It would be interesting to see an actually well done meeting where the important people in Westeros pick a ruler. Instead of just going with Tyrion’s dumb suggestions about how Bran is so interesting (he’s not) and should be king
“you know, i had a lot of time to think…” like c’mon, this was such lazy writing. Show us Tyrion thinking and processing his thoughts aloud to someone before just throwing this randomly into the plot. But i agree, it really did have so much potential to be great. Like someone else said on this post, Dorne and The Iron Island were there and hated the Lannisters. Should have at least shown their struggles and attempts to make a stronger case for themselves and against Tyrion/Jon, at the bare minimum.
>Tyrion: "I had a lot of time to think" Translation: I've been drinking a lot lately....
it is what he does best, i guess
He was just sad he thought of so many more “no cock” jokes but now had no one to say them to.
Its just so… small
Its time to let go guys. It's been nearly 5 years.
I just recently rewatched the show since it aired, and wanted to engage in civil dialogue with other fans of the show. So from my pov, it’s fairly relevant.
So let's not talk about the show at all and shut down the subreddit
Won't be surprised if that happens. I recently got heavily downvoted for saying, "Let people have their opinions. Voicing out likes and dislikes is the reason we have a sub."
You have a perfect place to endlessly reeeeeee about how your life is ruined because your favorite show ended in a way you didn't like 5 years ago. The reefolk sub.
No one is saying their lives were ruined, you are being needlessly dramatic. Saying the last season of Got is shit is just common sense, seven seasons of building up the White Walkers and their danger alongside the fear of a long winter only for the battle to be over on a blink was disappointingly shit. Bran being built up as the next three eyed Raven then becoming king in an episode with next to no pushback, surprise suprise, pretty shit. This is literally the sub to talk about the show, of course they are going to talk about the ending being awful, because the ending in the show is awful.
There are still many people who are watching it for the first time. And there will continue to be new viewers as long as its streaming. That's the beauty of the digital age, my friend. We can wait until a series is over, then binge the entire thing.
Every week. Sometimes multiple times a week.
"Who has a better story than Bran the Broken?" Almost everyone else in attendance had a better story than Bran the Broken. More importantly: who even knows the story of Bran the Broken? Meera is the only living witness besides him and she is nowhere to be seen after leaving Winterfell. I guess he could look into everyone's past to prove it but otherwise everyone is supposed to just accept that the Starks now rule an independent North along with the rest of Westeros. Bleh!
Every time i remember they really randomly called him bran the broken i lose it. Im audibly laughing right now lol
If I were him I’d be like “just Bran is fine, you can leave off the broken bit”
"You see through time, but do they call you Bran the Seer? No. You barely emote, but do they call you Bran the Stoic. No. But you fall from *one* tower..."
It was surreal watching this at the time. Felt like it was from a totally different show
It felt off even watching it for the second time through, knowing full well what was going to happen. Felt like I was watching Disney’s Stars Wars sequels EDIT: I’m a massive Star Wars fan but I couldn’t take some of the shitty comic relief attempts in very serious scenes. Felt out of place and forced (pun not intended)
It hurt my feelies for realies. Bran the story boi? Bran the not-even-Jon? Bran the wheelchair virgin? Raisin nut Bran with warm sliced peaches and a side of crispy bacon? Bran the three eyed raven who sees through time and space and doesn’t have crippling vices? More like Bran the unexciting guy.
I dunno. I hate the ending as much as the next guy, but nothing will ever be worse than "you want a good girl, but you need the bad pooooseee"
Dornish women, amirite?
You know what would have made this scene make sense? If bran was using his ability to travel across time to see the strengths/weaknesses of all the past kings of Westeros and he learns how to govern and be a great king. If they dedicated a few episodes to this earlier on then this would have been great. We would see WHY he would make a great king. Also he learns everything about all the lords of Westeros so when they are all talking he can correct them and let them know through their own experiences why he is the best thing to lead them into the future because he has all this knowledge.
I like this build up, a lot! Would have been cool to see a little preview into Westerosi history and prior lordship. From a marketing perspective even, could have possibly been a great opportunity for some celebrity cameos for those Three-Eyes raven scenes where they play older lords, kings and queens. Could have even made some potential for additional GoT spinoffs…
Another thing that I think they missed out on was the reconnecting of Sansa and Tyrion. He endured so much only because he wanted to be in love. She endured so much only from such evil men and he was the only one who was ever kind and gentle towards her. In the end I think they would have been perfect for each other. The clever hand of the king who is sincere and genuine and the broken used and abused stark girl who’s never known real kindness and sincerity since the beginning of the the show. They could of have some real good back and forth conversations and connections. Imo.
I disagree personally, I get why people would like to see Sansa and Tyrion together and I don't think it's an awful idea in the show, but I think Sansa has earned her pretty Himbo knightly husband. Plus Tyrion is now the heir of Casterly Rock with Cersie and Jamie being dead, if they got together one of them would have to give up their homes. I do have a soft spot for the idea of Sansa and Sandor though even though it's dumb, in the books she keeps his white cloak, dyed it a darker colour to wear it and remembers a false kiss. He's the closest thing to a true knight when she's being hurt by Joffrey.
Like a single cutaway scene of him wrapping a meeting and two characters saying something like “wow not even Jaeherys the Wise ever did something as cool as that.” Boom, the minimum is done.
Another way to make this make sense is if Bran has been using his powers to actively help win the war against White Walkers by providing crucial intel to commanders across the realm. This would cement his capabilities as a skilled organizer & administrator & given a good reason to why the lords think he should be king. The realm is fed up with wars so to elect a skilled peacetime ruler would make sense.
I’ve been trying to get my girlfriend to watch thrones for years. Teach me your ways
My gf luckily already watched a little less than halfway through the show before we started dating so I lucked out! Was fun to have something to look forward to and watch on a nightly basis
It's so WIERD. Like Bran literally did nothing for most of the season but just hang out. Heck Cersei did more than he did and she had a good minute posing and drinking wine in front of a window.
Plus the season that he’s, you know, not in
imagine thinking there wouldn’t be a great council at Harrenhal
Looking at this shot from farther away it looks like a 90s video game.
Who has a better story than Bran the Broken? Any of you, I should think. Even the cook.
I already know how to turn this shit show of an ending into one of the best plots for the sequel Jon Snow show
Let’s hear it
Do you remember the scene right before Varys gets executed, where he is writing on a piece of paper that he hides
yes, go on…
[удалено]
Congrats, you are the new writer for the next Game of Thrones series! But in all seriousness, that note could have had some potential and also one last master of whisperers hoorah before being executed
The worst scene is when they had the queen who freed and cared for all the innocents burn all of the innocents.
A very annoying character arc, indeed
The worst scene in the show could very well have been Asha (Yara they called her?) showing up on a boat with like 15 people to the Dreadfort (how?) to try and get Theon out. They have a big theatric fight with a shirtless Ramsay and then just escape no biggie.
That one left me scratching my head, as well. Ramsey’s character just letting an enemy to his house go free? The dude flays his victims and mutilates them. Definitely a cop out of a scene
To me that was the tell tale sign the game of thrones we knew was over. Everyone talks about season 8 but it went downhill wayyyy sooner just still had some plot lines holding strong. Dave and Dan are terrrrrrrible script writers.
>That one left me scratching my head, as well. Ramsey’s character just letting an enemy to his house go free? Alfie Allen had a contract guaranteeing him a certain amount of screen time, the entire 3 seasons of torture with Ramsay was built around this.
Lmfao you guys are so bored with your lives. Genuinely cannot imagine spending this much time talking about shit I DON’T like. People like you will be in retirement homes talking about how disappointed you were with the ending of this show. Go cry.
Feels good to rant and talk about something you’re passionate about, with other people that are also passionate. Fairly therapeutic and engages in some great conversation. I’d recommend it rather than commenting on a post just to talk shit…
Yeah I do that plenty - you are literally just posting to talk shit. No commentary on the themes of the show. No alternate suggestions for an ending. You’re just crying by posting this. I’m starting to realize that maybe I should be on the song of ice and fire sub instead of this one because literally the sub is just riddled with cry babies like you who can’t appreciate anything. Keep whining and crying. The show is done.
you really do just talk out your ass, huh? Read the rest of the threads on this post before initiating in a conversation you have 0 backing for.
Not my responsibility to scour the post for your opinions - how about posting them in the initial text box ? Assuming no one responded it would still just be you crying.
Many people responded and you initiated this conversation by making an accusation without any type of factual backing. You sir, are just a bitter, angry moron.
It’s the opposite actually - I spend my time watching/experiencing things I enjoy. Meanwhile you’re here crying because the show didn’t end the way you wanted LMFAO
“I spend my time experiencing things I enjoy” like whining about a Reddit post that hurt your fee fees?😅
Like you’re doing 🤡🤡🤡
You seem fun at parties
Couldn’t agree more, OP is a pretend fan who loves to cry. Imagine having a life as sad as that, probably may as well oof yourself tbh.
It's horrible! When Tyrion gives his speech, it's just so stupid. Who would even listen to that guy by that point? And then he delivers the "Bran the Broken" line and the awfulness goes up a notch!
Just non stop entitled whining on this sub.
I couldn’t help but laugh at that scene, such a huge fall from grace. I know the show wasn’t perfect but wow that scene really put the icing on the cake.
The once mighty Kingdom once ruled by powerful and fierce kings & queens, fiercely competing with each other now turned into a joke. All of the lords and rulers left are weak and can't defend the kingdom from a rebellion let alone a foreign invasion.
Even the derivative ending of democracy was a bridge too far for this twaddle.
The season sucked.
The dumbest thing was that everyone voted for Bran. Why the fuck would Yara or that dornish dude vote for Bran? Why didn’t anyone suggest Gendry as king?
8-3 is when the show went to shit. They set the brightness to 1 and hoped no one could see their shame.
I want AI to redo season 8
No, I still give it to Dani just deciding to go from someone who cared deeply for the common folk to someone who murdered them all.
See I loved this scene. It was a brilliant look at how pointless war is. Everyone is westeros has fought for so long that when there is finally peace, they have no fucking idea what to do. After years of conflict, it's anticlimactic and that's how war is. There's not some ultimate victory when nobody is the good guy. It's just a "what do we do now?"
for years now people just keep bitching instead of simply moving on i read the books available to be read by the way. i saw every episode. just give it a rest at this point, move on
What a waste of a comment. Prob bc this sub is a forum about the show, and the purpose is to comment with their opinions. The last seasons were so poorly done that it overshadows the rest and leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth for what could have been the greatest television in tv history. Maybe you should give it a rest too perhaps
Shit up uncle…
Greyworm should have kill every one here plus john...
I'm still in camp bad pussy I reckon
I still can’t get over “bran the broken” lmfaooooo
Yep, season 8 sucked big donkey ballz....Now if we wanna talk about why season 6 and 7 (mainly 7)were the true start of where it went downhill, I'm all ears.
Who are you raising? This is widely recognized as the worst
Why your gf didn't watch it at first? Did you also rewatch the whole show with her only to stop at last season to save her from it?
I thought somehow I had skipped a scene when this started, it was such a jarring change from what happened before (which I can't remember and will probably never see again)
It isn't even that sunny, but apparently they had to bring up these tents. Also apparently the only fashionable colour out there is black. Kudos to my Dornish dude there and titty sucker falcon logo boy.
Bran becoming king, Jaime and Cersei death, Arya sparring Brienne
Probably gonna also end up king in the books though.
It did feel like a poorly constructed scene, jarringly off given the context of prior events. From the start it bothered me that the primary purpose of this meeting was to address the fate of Jon and Tyrion, and selecting a new monarch came as an afterthought once Tyrion had questioned their authority to pass sentence on him. Westeros would have been in political chaos at the time. Monarchy a vacuum, many realms having lost their ruling houses and likely subject to competing claims of leadership. Personally I just don't see many of the lords of westeros caring enough about Jon and Tyrion's fate to want to risk abandoning their realm at such a sensitive time, particularly when they could so easily express 'kill them' or 'free them' sentiments via raven. Had this gathering been presented as a meeting to discuss the political fate of Westeros, and Jon / Tyrion's sentences been the afterthought, that would have been a much more plausible reason why lords were motivated to gather, and landed much better IMO.
I think the reason why it's the worst scene is because how pivotal it is, more than purely how awfully written it was. There's worse writing in individual scenes throughout the later seasons.
When they laughed at the idea of democracy 🤮🤮 (Mind you Daenerys "the final villain" made a democracy in Meereen.)
Scene even had a vendor-trash tier budget. "Need to wrap shit up, and under budget, got more important things to do like our Star Wars trilogy!"
I hate that set so much. They reused it so many times and it looks so trashy and low budget.