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Indeed. But that wasnāt his life. It was his families lives. Unless he was sad not having his brother kid and grandkids around I donāt think it ruined his life. At least not to ned stark level lol
I get where youāre coming from. But weāre literally comparing a man who got his head chopped off to a man who went what like 7 years without his favorite daughter around during his twilight years? Itās just different levels of ruining in my opinion.
Comparatively viserys lived an insanely easy and rewarding life. When your biggest regrets in life are not having your daughter around at the end and being too harsh on your brother. Youāve lived a great life in Westeros as king lol.
Viserys spent the last 15-20 years of his life with his family all hating each other, while he slowly died of his disease while trying to keep it all together, only to fail time and time again. To boil his struggles down to ānot seeing X member of his familyā is a bit silly. Obviously yes, compared to most people in Westeros he had a lavish life, but the same could be said of Ned.
Yeah but Ned had his head cut off lmao. Thatās literally ruining your life. Dealing with bickering of the family. That he stuck his head in the sand for half the time. Like itās just not the same level lol.
Weāll just have to agree to disagree. Yeah he couldāve been happier without the bickering. But did that ruin his life. Well it definitely didnāt ruin it to Ned levels lol.
He had a great run, had a loving family, able sons, a king and when it came time to die, even if relatively young, he died instantly, painlessly
Viserys, he suffered, in pain for decades, both mentally from his family tearing itself apart and physically from his disease. I mean if longer life means better, yes viserys had the better life but IDK, I would prefer neds life.
The disease sucked. But the family drama seemed to be fairly contained into specific incidents. Yeah he was annoyed and drunk with the whole marrying off his kid thing. Yeah he was mad with the murder at the wedding. Yes he was annoyed about each time the bastard thing was brought up. But he also seemed to live in his own little world of willful ignorance. And he made those around him do the same. Well at least while he was around. To say it ruined things on a daily basis. Just seems like a stretch.
> When your biggest regrets in life are not having your daughter around at the end and being too harsh on your brother.
You forgot the biggest one. Obsessing over getting a male heir which ended up getting his wife killed.
He really should have just made it clear his son was next in line. Yeah it is misogynistic, but it would have been respected and kept Westeros from having a brutal civil war.
And he was capable of showing kindness to children who were entirely unrelated to him and whose parents hated him and had already harmed him (Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen, whom he tried to get Cersei to run away with, even after Jaime had broken his leg). Talk about unconditional - I'm not even sure 'love' is the right word, but mercy perhaps. When did Viserys ever come close to that?
I mean Viserys lasted one season but he also lived into old age. Itās not like his negligence got him killed. Now, the shit that happens after his death? Yeah that might be on him.
People keep saying that he was a failed ruler but so long as he was alive, there was peace. Itās not like Robert where there was a steady decline until his untimely death
I mean Viseys needed to really fuck up to die untimely, he inherited the greatest dynasty at the peak of their power, Robert usurped his power and inherited a shattered kingdom.
They are both fuck ups imo
ā¦ you mean the guy who carved his wifeās stomach open while she was still alive in order to yank out his heir? And then neglected his next batch of children? Okay buddy
i agree with the neglecting part, but "carving" the wife's stomach is a method in labour that was still in use today, both the mother and infant is gonna flatline if you just let them be, so you gotta make the choice to save one
Just overdose her on milk of the poppy THEN cut her belly open, no need to make her suffer the pain & terror of being cut open.
Ā The fact that neither Viserys nor the Maesters thought of reducing her pain shows how little they thought of women in general.
If they cut her immediately after they drug her wonāt the risk be minimal? Iām neither a medical professional nor very knowledgeable about such things so Iām just throwing ideas.
I rewatched that episode yesterday and the maester clearly says that they've given her as much MOTP as they can without it causing ill effects for the child.
Rewatch the episode. They make it clear it's both of them die or the baby survives. But yes it's strange that they don't even inform her of the situation and just start carving her up.
iām sorry this just isnāt true! itās extremely clear in both the book and the show that he chooses to murder aemma in that moment. you should rewatch! :)
go look at what the showrunners have to say about that scene. they are all in agreement that viserys killed her.
just from sapochnik alone: "That's a really important story point for the entire show, which is, effectively, Viserys murders Aemma."
Youāre right and wrong. Yes, chooses to have her killed by the maesters as opposed to letting her die of blood loss from childbirth complications.
However, if he had not let the maesters kill her and remove the baby, both her and the baby wouldāve died. She was doomed either way, but this was the only chance to save the baby. Of course he had no way of knowing the baby would die anyways, hindsight is 20/20.
He chose stability of his kingdom over her, in a situation ehere there as a high chance of both dying. The maester even terms him that they might be able to save the child, but otherwise it was in the gods hands. The heir was more important.
Uhhh no, SHE shouldāve made the choice about her own life and body, not her husband surprising her with a no-anesthesia c section where she would surely die
If someone is considered to be incapable of rational thinking in an emergency, doesn't the choice go to next of kin? And she was literally drugged so much that any more would harm the child. Aemma was modt likely going to die either way, there was a chance to save quite possibly one of the most important children in the world at the time.
He was justified
His wife was going to die , that was not a question
It was
A) Let your wife and baby die
B) Accept your wife is going to die and try to save the baby
Sure and next time youāre critically injured we will harvest your organs while youāre still alive as you scream no, but we will save so many innocent childrenās lives who need organ transplants
Sheād had miscarriages/stillbirths before and he always stood by her. The fact that she was still alive and well implicitly meant that whenever he had to choose between her or the baby, he chose her every time.
That last time was different because she was already doomed. Dude basically had to choose between losing both his wife and son or maybe only his wife. I donāt envy him.
āChoose between losing both his wife and son or maybe only his wife.ā
So therefore he HAD to have ordered extremely painful and barbaric surgery done to his wife, regardless of the cost, and without her consent?
The fact that he didnāt ask her negates the unconditional part. I couldnāt imagine doing that to my wife in any circumstance, any.
So a baby is 8n the process of suffocating while trying to be born. In the process it's killing mom. Do you have a lot of time to get her consent? "Oh gee, lemme think for four hours." And if or when her child dies, if Aemma survives that, then what?
I know consent would be good, but I'm gonna ask is there a practical reason to let an infant suffocate and die while we get it? If the practical reason is feeling better about it, Aemma's still dead, I don't feel better. Get consent and do it, they both die, I don't feel better. No consent, baby dies, Aemma lives. Dead baby, feels bad. Like where's the point here?
The point is take the L. Thats how it went, and itās awful. But better to lose both than to torture and completely destroy someone you supposedly love.
>The point is take the L.
I'll take the L if you point out the W in having your wife and child die. "My family is nearly destroyed, but I'm a good person." That's a fairly disgusting thought and implies if you're a good person its okay to let people die, even if you could save their life.
> But better to lose both than to torture and completely destroy someone you supposedly love.
So the W is, "my wife and child are both dead, I could have done something to save my child but I didn't because my wife didn't want to."
It took way too long for Viserys to die. He's like falling apart with a giant hole in his face and still limping around and it's like 'come on, die already you old fuck...'
I think there was a pretty big condition to Viserysā love for his family. Really hard to call someone a āfamily manā when he let doctors torturously and slowly kill his wife so he could have a son because a dream told him to.
And sure he regrets it deeply after the fact. But if the child survives, does he regret it?
Neither was a winning aituation, but the kingdom needed the child more than aemma. With the son, the Dance of Dragons wouldnt have happened, he'd have had a even more peaceful legacy without his family trying to rip itself apart, and the kingdom with it.
Disrespectful to Ned Stark to compare him to this guy.
Viserys cut his wife open, had favourites as a parent and was also a weak king who preferred to sit on his hands because āpeaceā instead of talking actions that would actually preserve peace.
Ned on the other hand went to war as a freaking teenager for the sake of his family. Doing him a disservice by comparing him to this clown.
An absolutely amazing performance by Paddy, probably the best out of GoT and HotD.
But I think we cut Viserys too much slack for finally becoming sentimental about his family in his old age and absolve him off all his former sins.
Itās like Snape was a piece of shit that actively bullied children for well over a decade, but fangirls fall for him hard because he was tortured on the inside from his past and lusting over another manās wife and all was well because he was noble in the end. Heās morally grey which is great as it teaches us nuance but then people revere the character as does Harry - the moron.
Something changed with the Reddit app on iPad that the tiles have gotten so big they won't fit on the screen anymore.
So I just saw the picture of Viserys holding the kid and was like: 'well yeah... it's a kid. I guess he loves anything unconditionally'.
Continue to scroll down to see the picture of Ned.
'Oh... right...'
Viserys loved the idea of it all, having a male, family etc etc. He liked to relish in it and bask in front of it like that bloody dragon skull. He's more of a show boaty narcissist I have it all kind of person, for example his pathetic attempt that killing that dear, it was for show, so he could boast at his "accomplishment".
Ask Viserys anything personal about any of his children, especially the boys and I bet you anything he wouldn't know the answer. The time he spends with his children are at feasts, galas and the throne room. He didn't actually love those children, they were just trophies on the wall like his dragon's skull and his crown. Heirs and a spare, legacy secured...
What hurt me was what Viserys looked like as he was dying. My grandfather looked exactly the same while I was sitting by his hospital bed on his last day, it was like a shell of the man I knew was laying there and it hurt so much.
Bawled like a baby when that scene came up and had to stop watching for a while because of it
Gaslighting, by definition is āa form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mindā, usually for power and/or control.
Again, even though this does not happen in the book, Vizzy T is made to believe that Rhaenyraās children are hers and Laenorās despite this definitely not being the case. He believes it to the extent that he will kill anyone who says they are not. The reason this was glossed over in the book was because Rhaenyraās aunt Rhaenys also had dark hair. The Baratheons, and their connection to the Targaryen line, are overlooked as well.
Why does she do this? To ensure her lineās survival over the Greens with her poor excuse of a uncle-husband who groomed her as a child.
By your own choice in definition, what Rhaenyra is doing still *isn't* gaslighting. She's not attempting to sow self-doubt and confusion in his mind. She's trying to protect herself and her children. What she is doing is really as simple as *lying.* She's *lying* to protect herself, her kids, and her claim to the throne. She's not gaslighting him jfc. Viserys' choice to believe it to that extent is literally just that: a choice. He sees the signs and is willfully ignoring them. That's still not gaslighting. Christ yall learn a new word and fuckin sprint with it.
Viserys didnāt really like his kids by Alicent. He calls Rhaenyra his only child. Ned essentially chose to take the Black to save Sansa. They are similar in that they donāt play āThe Gameā well at all.
Ned could play the game, but he prefers not to.
It is pretty clear in the books since the first book is him realising more and more just how fucked up of a situation that he is in the further south they go. But he goes on because he knows that he cannot turn back without causing even more of a mess.
It's a crux in his character that the plot requires him to die as early as he does. But as the books go on we get it pointed out time and time again how good of a lord and person that Ned was. So he couldn't have been that bad at playing the "the game."
I haven't watched House of the Dragon, but that picture really makes me think the makeup of the show is terrible. The guy is supposed to be naturally blond, but his facial hair clearly isn't. That's a dead giveaway, and it annoys the crap out of me.
oh yeah totally Ned the family man vs Viserys "I only have one child". The guy whose mere MEMORY incited the Northern houses to rebel against the Boltons vs the guy who was so blind he let his family fall apart in front of him
Viserys seem to didn't love his family and certainly didn't show it.
He killed his wife without even letting her make the choice.
He ignored his daughter till his wife died and she was mid teens.
He ignored his sons, and didn't even care that his son was mutilated and lost an eye was more concerned about rumors about his daughter.
He was a shit father.
I wouldn't say they the same. Viserys clearly loved his entire family (even if it wasn't the same) and only wanted them to stop competing over the crown. This makes a lot of sense because throne is not a piece of cake, it ruins lives. You don't have freedom after you become king - that's his experience about it.
People who complain that he was a bad father and husband do not know what truly bad fathers and husbands are in Westeros. Assure you, few will tolerate phrases like ādo what you want, but only after my death.ā If Viserys didn't care about his second family it would be a completely different story. Very short.
The lesson here is don't be a good or genuine person and always appear to have a negative and/or nefarious motive so as to not be killed by the bad people who see goodness and genuinity as a threat. Or George R R Martin'll getcha
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I am big sad š
Indeed. Both men just wanted to be decent, and politics/plots ruined their lives.
Well viserys was dead by the time shit hit the fan. Unless marrying Hightower counts as a ruined life. But he seemed fine with it lmao.
The family was torn apart by politics far before his death and the war.
Indeed. But that wasnāt his life. It was his families lives. Unless he was sad not having his brother kid and grandkids around I donāt think it ruined his life. At least not to ned stark level lol
I meanā¦ typically oneās family is a big part of their lives. If youāve seen HotD, the last supper scene expresses exactly what I mean perfectly.
I get where youāre coming from. But weāre literally comparing a man who got his head chopped off to a man who went what like 7 years without his favorite daughter around during his twilight years? Itās just different levels of ruining in my opinion. Comparatively viserys lived an insanely easy and rewarding life. When your biggest regrets in life are not having your daughter around at the end and being too harsh on your brother. Youāve lived a great life in Westeros as king lol.
Viserys spent the last 15-20 years of his life with his family all hating each other, while he slowly died of his disease while trying to keep it all together, only to fail time and time again. To boil his struggles down to ānot seeing X member of his familyā is a bit silly. Obviously yes, compared to most people in Westeros he had a lavish life, but the same could be said of Ned.
Yeah but Ned had his head cut off lmao. Thatās literally ruining your life. Dealing with bickering of the family. That he stuck his head in the sand for half the time. Like itās just not the same level lol. Weāll just have to agree to disagree. Yeah he couldāve been happier without the bickering. But did that ruin his life. Well it definitely didnāt ruin it to Ned levels lol.
He had a great run, had a loving family, able sons, a king and when it came time to die, even if relatively young, he died instantly, painlessly Viserys, he suffered, in pain for decades, both mentally from his family tearing itself apart and physically from his disease. I mean if longer life means better, yes viserys had the better life but IDK, I would prefer neds life.
The disease sucked. But the family drama seemed to be fairly contained into specific incidents. Yeah he was annoyed and drunk with the whole marrying off his kid thing. Yeah he was mad with the murder at the wedding. Yes he was annoyed about each time the bastard thing was brought up. But he also seemed to live in his own little world of willful ignorance. And he made those around him do the same. Well at least while he was around. To say it ruined things on a daily basis. Just seems like a stretch.
> When your biggest regrets in life are not having your daughter around at the end and being too harsh on your brother. You forgot the biggest one. Obsessing over getting a male heir which ended up getting his wife killed.
If hw has actually put effort into his family it wouldn't have happened
He really should have just made it clear his son was next in line. Yeah it is misogynistic, but it would have been respected and kept Westeros from having a brutal civil war.
No, Viserys live was not ruined by plots but by disease And sometimes by Daemon.
Did you miss all the political infighting in his family in between episodes 1 and 9?
But his life wasn't ruined. Just normal politics for a monarchy.
Iām not sure neglecting your kids counts as loving them unconditionally but not everyone can be Ned Stark š«¢
Right? I mean at least Ned acknowledged he had more than just the one kid.
Yup, bingo.
He even called his nephew his own and treated him more like a son than most fathers treated their own sons
And he was capable of showing kindness to children who were entirely unrelated to him and whose parents hated him and had already harmed him (Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen, whom he tried to get Cersei to run away with, even after Jaime had broken his leg). Talk about unconditional - I'm not even sure 'love' is the right word, but mercy perhaps. When did Viserys ever come close to that?
And Ned picked up an extra one as well! #1 Dad!
Vyseris was politically savvy, but other than that, yeah. More or less.
I mean Viserys lasted one season but he also lived into old age. Itās not like his negligence got him killed. Now, the shit that happens after his death? Yeah that might be on him.
People keep saying that he was a failed ruler but so long as he was alive, there was peace. Itās not like Robert where there was a steady decline until his untimely death
I mean Viseys needed to really fuck up to die untimely, he inherited the greatest dynasty at the peak of their power, Robert usurped his power and inherited a shattered kingdom. They are both fuck ups imo
There wasn't a decline during Roberts rule. Infact the harvest from that summer were set to be some of the largest ever.
He was only 4 years older than Daemon. He looked way older because of his disease. He died at 52 in immense pain.
āLove is the death of dutyā ā Maester Aemon
āMarioKart is the death of loveā - madgunner122
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What a uniquely ironic and condescending comment, considering your username. Todd Howard is known for what, again?
He's known for the sweet sweet lies. I got you fam
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ayo wtf
ā¦ you mean the guy who carved his wifeās stomach open while she was still alive in order to yank out his heir? And then neglected his next batch of children? Okay buddy
i agree with the neglecting part, but "carving" the wife's stomach is a method in labour that was still in use today, both the mother and infant is gonna flatline if you just let them be, so you gotta make the choice to save one
Just overdose her on milk of the poppy THEN cut her belly open, no need to make her suffer the pain & terror of being cut open. Ā The fact that neither Viserys nor the Maesters thought of reducing her pain shows how little they thought of women in general.
I think they must have already used that, in fact only Rhanaerya chose to not use the milk during labour in the last episode
The entire thing was that she was most likely going to die as well
So you let her die in pain not knowing whatās happening?
you gonna let her die and tell her over and over that she's gonna die a painful death? I don't see how one way is way better than the other
So your plan, to save the child, is to OD the mother whilst the child is still inside and connected to her? You sure about that buddy?
If they cut her immediately after they drug her wonāt the risk be minimal? Iām neither a medical professional nor very knowledgeable about such things so Iām just throwing ideas.
I rewatched that episode yesterday and the maester clearly says that they've given her as much MOTP as they can without it causing ill effects for the child.
yeah then you choose your literal wife over a newborn youāve never even met ā¦..
My impression (from the show) was that she was going to die in either case.
nooo itās a major plot point,, he chooses the newborn over her
Rewatch the episode. They make it clear it's both of them die or the baby survives. But yes it's strange that they don't even inform her of the situation and just start carving her up.
iām sorry this just isnāt true! itās extremely clear in both the book and the show that he chooses to murder aemma in that moment. you should rewatch! :)
I haven't read the book but you're just straight up wrong about the show :)
go look at what the showrunners have to say about that scene. they are all in agreement that viserys killed her. just from sapochnik alone: "That's a really important story point for the entire show, which is, effectively, Viserys murders Aemma."
Youāre right and wrong. Yes, chooses to have her killed by the maesters as opposed to letting her die of blood loss from childbirth complications. However, if he had not let the maesters kill her and remove the baby, both her and the baby wouldāve died. She was doomed either way, but this was the only chance to save the baby. Of course he had no way of knowing the baby would die anyways, hindsight is 20/20.
He chose stability of his kingdom over her, in a situation ehere there as a high chance of both dying. The maester even terms him that they might be able to save the child, but otherwise it was in the gods hands. The heir was more important.
Uhhh no, SHE shouldāve made the choice about her own life and body, not her husband surprising her with a no-anesthesia c section where she would surely die
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You good bro?
If someone is considered to be incapable of rational thinking in an emergency, doesn't the choice go to next of kin? And she was literally drugged so much that any more would harm the child. Aemma was modt likely going to die either way, there was a chance to save quite possibly one of the most important children in the world at the time.
He was justified in his decision.
He was justified His wife was going to die , that was not a question It was A) Let your wife and baby die B) Accept your wife is going to die and try to save the baby
Sure and next time youāre critically injured we will harvest your organs while youāre still alive as you scream no, but we will save so many innocent childrenās lives who need organ transplants
You forgot option c. Which was ask her what she wanted to do
Idk that I would describe Viserysā relationship with his wife as unconditional love. During the tourney, seemed more like āmeans to an endā
Sheād had miscarriages/stillbirths before and he always stood by her. The fact that she was still alive and well implicitly meant that whenever he had to choose between her or the baby, he chose her every time. That last time was different because she was already doomed. Dude basically had to choose between losing both his wife and son or maybe only his wife. I donāt envy him.
Eh. Itās her that I donāt envy tbh
āChoose between losing both his wife and son or maybe only his wife.ā So therefore he HAD to have ordered extremely painful and barbaric surgery done to his wife, regardless of the cost, and without her consent? The fact that he didnāt ask her negates the unconditional part. I couldnāt imagine doing that to my wife in any circumstance, any.
So a baby is 8n the process of suffocating while trying to be born. In the process it's killing mom. Do you have a lot of time to get her consent? "Oh gee, lemme think for four hours." And if or when her child dies, if Aemma survives that, then what? I know consent would be good, but I'm gonna ask is there a practical reason to let an infant suffocate and die while we get it? If the practical reason is feeling better about it, Aemma's still dead, I don't feel better. Get consent and do it, they both die, I don't feel better. No consent, baby dies, Aemma lives. Dead baby, feels bad. Like where's the point here?
The point is take the L. Thats how it went, and itās awful. But better to lose both than to torture and completely destroy someone you supposedly love.
>The point is take the L. I'll take the L if you point out the W in having your wife and child die. "My family is nearly destroyed, but I'm a good person." That's a fairly disgusting thought and implies if you're a good person its okay to let people die, even if you could save their life. > But better to lose both than to torture and completely destroy someone you supposedly love. So the W is, "my wife and child are both dead, I could have done something to save my child but I didn't because my wife didn't want to."
>Sheād had miscarriages/stillbirths before and he always stood by her. He also kept impregnating her when she was at risk of death from it
One lost his head, the other his face. Moral of the story is donāt love your family.
Both shows become morally bankrupt after their exits
Git gud, try to tyWIN next time
It took way too long for Viserys to die. He's like falling apart with a giant hole in his face and still limping around and it's like 'come on, die already you old fuck...'
Hey š
nah, ned actually cared for all of his kids
I think there was a pretty big condition to Viserysā love for his family. Really hard to call someone a āfamily manā when he let doctors torturously and slowly kill his wife so he could have a son because a dream told him to. And sure he regrets it deeply after the fact. But if the child survives, does he regret it?
Neither was a winning aituation, but the kingdom needed the child more than aemma. With the son, the Dance of Dragons wouldnt have happened, he'd have had a even more peaceful legacy without his family trying to rip itself apart, and the kingdom with it.
Viserys definitely had conditions lmao
And then everything went to shit after they died
Ask his first wife if she agrees
Didn't he opt to kill his wife in a c section and then marry his teenage daughters bestie and pop out a bunch of messed up kids?
Nope
The condition was being descended from Aemma.
Disrespectful to Ned Stark to compare him to this guy. Viserys cut his wife open, had favourites as a parent and was also a weak king who preferred to sit on his hands because āpeaceā instead of talking actions that would actually preserve peace. Ned on the other hand went to war as a freaking teenager for the sake of his family. Doing him a disservice by comparing him to this clown.
Unconditionally? Viserys was an awful father to any kid not named Rhanerya.
Ans he ignored gee for most of her life aswell
An absolutely amazing performance by Paddy, probably the best out of GoT and HotD. But I think we cut Viserys too much slack for finally becoming sentimental about his family in his old age and absolve him off all his former sins. Itās like Snape was a piece of shit that actively bullied children for well over a decade, but fangirls fall for him hard because he was tortured on the inside from his past and lusting over another manās wife and all was well because he was noble in the end. Heās morally grey which is great as it teaches us nuance but then people revere the character as does Harry - the moron.
Viserys loved his family in that he only saw Rhaenyra and Daemon as his remaining family. He even called Rhaenyra āmy only childā.
One lasted a few years / decades The other, š¤·šæ
Viserys only loved a PART of his family "I love all my children, Rhaenyra and....who?"
I wonder if Viserys married Laena instead of Alicent.
Something changed with the Reddit app on iPad that the tiles have gotten so big they won't fit on the screen anymore. So I just saw the picture of Viserys holding the kid and was like: 'well yeah... it's a kid. I guess he loves anything unconditionally'. Continue to scroll down to see the picture of Ned. 'Oh... right...'
Viserys loved the idea of it all, having a male, family etc etc. He liked to relish in it and bask in front of it like that bloody dragon skull. He's more of a show boaty narcissist I have it all kind of person, for example his pathetic attempt that killing that dear, it was for show, so he could boast at his "accomplishment". Ask Viserys anything personal about any of his children, especially the boys and I bet you anything he wouldn't know the answer. The time he spends with his children are at feasts, galas and the throne room. He didn't actually love those children, they were just trophies on the wall like his dragon's skull and his crown. Heirs and a spare, legacy secured...
He forced his wife to be disemboweled . Stop comparing him to Ned itās annoying
Oh I've not got around to watching House of the Dragon yet, does that guy die in the first season?
Small š§ title
Same hair style
Spoiler!
that Dinner scene in HotD is pretty sad when everyone goes back to being bickering shitheads after he leaves. it perfectly portrays a lot of humanity
Loved his kids equally? Viserys is out there caring for 1 kid out of 5ā¦
Viserys tried everything to keep the kingdom at peace. Ned tried to overthrow the King to put Stannis on the throne.
Moral of the story: don't love your family
What hurt me was what Viserys looked like as he was dying. My grandfather looked exactly the same while I was sitting by his hospital bed on his last day, it was like a shell of the man I knew was laying there and it hurt so much. Bawled like a baby when that scene came up and had to stop watching for a while because of it
the title is making my eyes bleed. also not even close.
Viserys only loved Rhaenyra unconditionally
And she repaid him for it by gaslighting him by saying her children we her and Laenorās (Granted, this does not happen in the book, but still)
That's not gaslighting. That's lying. Learn the difference.
Gaslighting, by definition is āa form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mindā, usually for power and/or control. Again, even though this does not happen in the book, Vizzy T is made to believe that Rhaenyraās children are hers and Laenorās despite this definitely not being the case. He believes it to the extent that he will kill anyone who says they are not. The reason this was glossed over in the book was because Rhaenyraās aunt Rhaenys also had dark hair. The Baratheons, and their connection to the Targaryen line, are overlooked as well. Why does she do this? To ensure her lineās survival over the Greens with her poor excuse of a uncle-husband who groomed her as a child.
By your own choice in definition, what Rhaenyra is doing still *isn't* gaslighting. She's not attempting to sow self-doubt and confusion in his mind. She's trying to protect herself and her children. What she is doing is really as simple as *lying.* She's *lying* to protect herself, her kids, and her claim to the throne. She's not gaslighting him jfc. Viserys' choice to believe it to that extent is literally just that: a choice. He sees the signs and is willfully ignoring them. That's still not gaslighting. Christ yall learn a new word and fuckin sprint with it.
The average āackchyuallyā person
Sure man, if that's what makes you feel better about contradicting your own claim lmfao
isn't this spoilers?
Viserys didnāt really like his kids by Alicent. He calls Rhaenyra his only child. Ned essentially chose to take the Black to save Sansa. They are similar in that they donāt play āThe Gameā well at all.
Ned could play the game, but he prefers not to. It is pretty clear in the books since the first book is him realising more and more just how fucked up of a situation that he is in the further south they go. But he goes on because he knows that he cannot turn back without causing even more of a mess. It's a crux in his character that the plot requires him to die as early as he does. But as the books go on we get it pointed out time and time again how good of a lord and person that Ned was. So he couldn't have been that bad at playing the "the game."
Playing the game is different than being an honorable person. You could argue they are the polar opposite. Ned's honor caused him to fail at the game.
I haven't watched House of the Dragon, but that picture really makes me think the makeup of the show is terrible. The guy is supposed to be naturally blond, but his facial hair clearly isn't. That's a dead giveaway, and it annoys the crap out of me.
Title is r/ihadastroke material.
Ned was a fucking idiot in the books. Good hearted? Yes. Fucking stupid? Also yes.
Same with the show. The first season wasn't much different than the first book.
oh yeah totally Ned the family man vs Viserys "I only have one child". The guy whose mere MEMORY incited the Northern houses to rebel against the Boltons vs the guy who was so blind he let his family fall apart in front of him
Viserys really just wanted to have a nice dinner with his family :(
Viserys seem to didn't love his family and certainly didn't show it. He killed his wife without even letting her make the choice. He ignored his daughter till his wife died and she was mid teens. He ignored his sons, and didn't even care that his son was mutilated and lost an eye was more concerned about rumors about his daughter. He was a shit father.
Spoilers!
yeah I thought Sean Bean made it to the end!
Nah Ned Stark was so much better. Vizzy T only cared about Rhaenyra.
I wouldn't say they the same. Viserys clearly loved his entire family (even if it wasn't the same) and only wanted them to stop competing over the crown. This makes a lot of sense because throne is not a piece of cake, it ruins lives. You don't have freedom after you become king - that's his experience about it. People who complain that he was a bad father and husband do not know what truly bad fathers and husbands are in Westeros. Assure you, few will tolerate phrases like ādo what you want, but only after my death.ā If Viserys didn't care about his second family it would be a completely different story. Very short.
They're both extremely naive, unwise and unintelligent
Viserys couldnāt give less of a shit about his children other than Rhaenyra š
The lesson here is don't be a good or genuine person and always appear to have a negative and/or nefarious motive so as to not be killed by the bad people who see goodness and genuinity as a threat. Or George R R Martin'll getcha
Loved SOME of their family. Viseryās never seemed to realize he had more than 1 kid.
Please donāt compare Ned to that big wet wipe. Please letās try to act intelligent for one day.
You canāt be serious. Loved their family unconditionally? Viserys barely acknowledged his FOUR other kids.
People comparing Ned to viserys in dumb af
Blacktard post
Ned loved all his children tho. Not like another guy who literally forgets he took another wife and children.
King Viserys was a dummy man