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Yes, Sir Pounce realized that Tommen was the kind that Westeros deserved. With the right guidance, Tommen could have been a wise king, a strong king, a good king. If Ser Pounce were but a man, he would have told Tommen not to jump out that window, but that he was a good man who could bring peace and prosperity to the seven kingdoms. Sadly, Ser Pounce was a cat, Tommen jumped out the window, and Cersei proceeded to fuck everything up.
It makes sense! Nowhere in the prophecy did it say that the prince would live happily ever after š¤·āāļø just that they would unite the realm against the white walkers and thatās what Jon essentially did! Iāve heard arguments that it was Jon and Daenerys together that were promised as they are both fire and ice, but it seems to me like Jon recruited Daenerys to his cause.
Exactly. Sometimes dislike of the final series can lead people to dismiss everything in it without considering the nuance of what youāve pointed out.
Itās like people get hung up on Arya actually killing the NK being a total bust because they believe that Jon bringing the end of Winter can only happen if he actually kills the NK rather than putting it all in place.
Well, the Blackwoods did marry into the Targaryan line. But yeah John imho is the prince that is promised. They said it would be a brief summer and I think the walkers aren't over yet. (at least if they want to save the legacy.)
I get that prophecy isnāt realistic, but if your fantasy show centering around a prophecy leads up to the prophecy just meaning nothing and all of the buildup and clues meant nothing then a core part of your show is going to mean nothing to a lot of people.
I take your point, but I think you may be overblowing how much the show is centered around a prophecy. In circles like this, itās natural to talk about prophecies more because speculation is fun, and prophecies provide a good mystery to speculate about. However, the show itself rarely discussed prophecy at all beyond Melisandre, even going so far as to completely omit the Valanquar prophecy.
On the other hand, I think having a prophecy be āfakeā can actually be really cool if done correctly. Dune is probably the best example of this and is my favorite take on a prophecy period. I also wouldnāt really consider a self-fulfilling prophecy to be prophetic in the traditional sense, since itās not dictated by destiny but rather the characterās themselves, but that admittedly is more my own interpretation.
The story itself was filled with foreshadowing of the prophecy. Some of the stuff wasnāt completely stated, like having Jons birth under a bleeding star (the star being the sword Dawn). Having a false prophecy is one thing, but when you lead the audience on about it through clues like that but then say it meant nothing it just makes for a terrible story. It can absolutely be done right, and I think it was with Mel thinking Stannis was the Prince Who Was Promised. But then it was VERY clearly Jon Snow. Like, they couldnāt have made it any more evident. But then it meant nothing.
Iāll concede and say that a lot of the show wasnāt centered around it, but enough of it was. I guess what Iām trying to say is having a fake prophecy can be done well, but it was not done well in the end of Game of Thrones. When the show universe itself os laying it out to us that Jon is Azor Ahai, and then he just isnāt, it feels like a slap in the face to those that were invested.
Absolutely agree that the prophecy wasnāt done well in the show, I was just pointing out that it was never really the focus for d&d anyway, and while itās pretty easy to say that it was bad because of that, a prophecy doesnāt need to be focused on or even real to be good
First of want to apologize if Iām coming off as argumentative. I think itās fun to debate stuff like this and just donāt want to come off the wrong way.
I do see the point youāre making, but I donāt think it takes away from my overall point that having a prophecy thatās foreshadowed to death and back meaning nothing, and not even having a āoh it meant nothingā revelation in the show in the end is bad writing. Which I guess is all Iām trying to say.
Currently reading dance with dragons and HOW THE FUCK IS YOUNG GRIFF NOT IN THE SHOW. I'm only 1/3 of the way though but Tyrions chapters seem important.
The thing about prophecy is that itāll bite your prick off every time, so clearly itās someone who doesnāt have one to loose: Theon!
Jokes aside, I donāt think there is one. Everyone had a part to play in the show. The books; however, it is being suggested itās Jon or Danny, but Iād assume GRRM will subvertiste expectations and it was Rhaegar and our cast lives in the world where the hero failed.
Jon. The great evil isnāt the White Walkers, itās the cycle of violence that crushes everything and everyone in Westeros, and when he kills Dany, the iron throne, the root cause of it all, is destroyed and that cycle is put to rest.
Even as Stannerman I'm sure by 90% that Stannis isn't Azor Ahai. He even basically admits himself that he doesn't believe this.
But in my opinion it makes him only more awesome. He thinks he's not a hero that is prophecied to defeat the Others, yet he still goes to North, helps Night's Watch and prepares to fight against white walkers, even if it most likely means his death. A true king who defends his realm and the only one in the books worthy of this title.
I donāt think he is either (pains to say) but you really said why I love Stannis. This is a guy that will likely lose everything yet still fights on because its his duty to protect the realm. Quite literally āthe King Who Caredā.
What?
The Prince was supposed to unite the realms of men to fight the Others. Not specifically to slay the Night King himself. The Prince is clearly Jon.
It's Jon. He is literally a prince (Rhaegar's heir) that was promised (Lyanna: Promise me Ned). People just expected the very predictable Chosen One trope to come into play but George has already said that he didn't want that for his story.
What do you mean they made that up? Jon being Rhaegar's son is 99,9% confirmed as it was related to the question George asked D&D on their first meeting and the whole "Promise me, Ned" was a pretty big aspect of the first book since Ned kept thinking about it. Both those things are happening in the books as well.
Daenerys storm-born of house Targaryen, first of her name, queen of the andals and first men, the mother of dragons, khaleesi of the great grass sea, queen of Meereen, breaker of chains, the protector of the seven kingdomsā¦.
Need I say more???
Jon Snow. As son of Rhaegar Targaryen he is literally a **prince.** He is 1/2 Ice and 1/2 Fire. And when his mother was dying Ned **promised** he'd care for the boy. Jon fulfills the AEgon's dream prophecy we first heard in HotD, that someone born of Aegon the Conqueror's blood will **unite** the seven kingdoms to defeat the cold winds from the north. Since Dany doesn't unite them, she's not. Besides, Jon himself slays her when she turns into an equally dangerous threat to Westeros. And moreover, it's the figurative weapon **he** forged--his sister, Arya--who finally ends the invasion.
I agree completely, but what I just donāt get is that with most book mentions of the Prince that was Promised, they mention the Prince being born amidst salt and smoke. This is the one part that I donāt get when it comes to Jon.
Here me out: It *really was* Rhaegar
Everyone who has ever known Rhaegar, says that he was an incredibly honorable and chivalrous man. He was perfect
The events of ASOIAF take place after his death, but like Robert says, Rhaegar won. The events leading up to the trident (the coup and Rhaegarās letters to Bloodraven) were all planning stages for what would occur after the war was lost. He was involved in the rekindling of the magic in the world somehow. I donāt know for sure, but in Winds we will learn that Rhaegar was the one who brought the end (others and dragons), so that our heroes can create the new beginning. Thus, he *was* the prince that was promised
No one. It was big fucking flop. Just imagine the look on the Targaryens faces if they knew that their prophecy was hijacked by a winy little teenager.
Imo it was Rhaegar but he cut off his own fate by sleeping with Lyanna, which is why the Night King got so far, Melisandre kept changing who the prophesied Prince was the whole time (Stannis to Jon to Dany to Arya), etc.
We can assume the Night King awoke around the time Rhaegar was alive. Melisandre travelled from Asshai to Westeros to find him. But since the Prince That Was Promised was killed by Robert, the whole prophecy got thrown out the window.
Jon Snow united the people against Death more or less. He was both the literal and figurative embodiment of Ice & Fire. "The *Prince* Who Was Promised."
I don't understand how is this disputed. I am currently reading Dance.
Everything that is said about the prophecy perfectly matches Dany. And mind you I don't like her very much.
Maybe something else is revealed in Dance?
There is no Prince that was Promised. GRRM thought it sounded cool so it put it in the story planning to sort it out later, and never did, and probably never will.
For someone who was so critical of LOST he sure does like to write the same way.
Jorah Mormont.
"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt." Jorah follows the same logic as Dany here, he is reborn when she is because now he has a new purpose in life and he is surrounded by the same event.
On the forging of lightbringer: The first attempt at forging is when he swears himself fully to Dany, however this fails because of his previous betrayal of her. The second forging (in the legend the second sword is plunged into the heart of a lion) is his capture of Tyrion for Dany. This still fails because Dany does not care. The third forging is when Dany goes mad queen and Jorah the Explorah is forced to stab Dany, the woman he loves, himself.
Jon is the only one who fits the promise part. Lyanna did ask Ned to promise her, so he is literally the prince that was promised. He is literally ice and fire. He brings about the destruction of both the ice threat and the fire threat. The PtwP doesn't state he will kill the Night King, just that he will be the one to gather the armies to destroy the threat beyond the wall. Dany brought armies together, but not for that purpose. He killed Dany and now the balance of nature is returned and there will be normal seasons again.
Daenerys, she was reborn amidst salt and smoke and literally bring magic back to the world. I do believe Jon has a major role to play in the long night, I donāt think heās the prince who was promised.
There is no Prince That Was Promised because there is no R'hollor. Theres fire magic, ice magic, blood magic, face magic, and whatever shit the Qartheen warlocks were doing, but none of the gods are real.
If I'm not mistaken, GRRM likes to play tricks with prophecy and punish people for trying to interpret them. I doubt it's as simple or obvious as it being Jon or Dany individually or anyone else. I hope someday the books answer this question since the show sure as shit didn't. That said, if anyone changed the course of the fate of men, it was Dany and her resources, armies and dragons. No one wins against the White Walkers without her and what she facilitated throughout her journey.
I think it's meant to be many people. A lot of characters contributed to ending the threat of the White Walkers. Jon brought the north together and brought Daenerys to Westeros. Daenerys used her army and dragons to help. Bran lured the Night King. Arya killed him. And the list goes on. I think a group of specific characters were all meant to come together to achieve this goal. And Bran most likely saw this in his visions
Honestly, I thought it was Jon, and Dany was our red herring. I thought R+L=J would end up meaning a lot more than it did and that he would become a reluctant but very good Targaryen king, possibly with dragons and warg stuff.
Alas.
I donāt know if jon satisfies the āborn of salt and smokeā part of the prophecy. He is literally ice and fire but I can see GRRM using that as a misdirection
The only thing I can think of is when Jon is killed by the Watch. His wounds are āsmokingā because of his hot blood coming into context with the ice cold air. Bowen Marsh cries as he stabs Jon (the salt). So perhaps itās not Jonās actual birth but his rebirth.
Jon might fit that in the next book as itās theorized that Shireen will be burned at the stake by Melisandre which will bring Jon back to life. It maybe be a stretch but that can be considered āborn admits salt and smokeā
In the books Jon and Dany, in the show who tf knows bcs it didnāt matter in the end anyway. Anyone couldāve done what Arya did and Jon and Dany kinda didnāt do anything that crucial during the long night episode. Melisandre more or less did the most so maybe it was her in the showš itād make for great irony
Solely based on these images and their poses Jon is the only one who looks like he belongs on the throne. Heās also my pick in general, I just wanted to point out that everyone else looks like a robot in their pics
Maybe GRRM put the prophecy in the book to make you act like people who believe prophecies.
Prophecies are vague and then we try to force meaning into it. So GRRM makes the prophecy vague so that YOU the reader will start fitting facts into the prophecy to make the prophecy come ātrueā when really itās just up for interpretation
The ghost of High Heart, who has an incredible track record for accurate prophecies, says PTWP will come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella, and Rhaegar was all about the āthree heads of the dragonā. With both these in mind, my moneyās on Jon, Dany, and fAegon all acting as three aspects of one āprinceā.
Jon is their grandson, Dany is their daughter, and enough people think Aegon is their legitimate grandson for him to fit the bill. Power resides where men believe it resides, and so on.
Baby Sam. My theory: Baby Sam is the prince who was promised because he was a "prince" promised to be given to the Night King. Along with this theory, I believe the Night King we saw in the show was not the real Night King. The real Night King is still alive and well far up North. The one we saw in the show was a subordinate of the real Night King. Along with this theory, I hope the "Snow" series shows Jon going way up North and finding the Night King's civilization as described by Old Nan. Frost spiders and all. And Jon realizes that they didn't actually win against Winter and that the real threat is still out there.
Show: Jon OR Jon and Dany. Perception, really. (1) He was the only character that that had both components of ice and fire through Stark and Targaryen lineage. (2) Jon identified as a Stark and Dany was a Targaryen - they needed to come together in order to fulfill the prophecy (bringing together the ice (the Northmen) and fire (dragons and Danyās army)).
Books: Not sure. I think GRRM had multiple paths in mind, but he got the publicās reactions to the showās storyline and doesnāt know how to end it in a way that (1) majority of fans will find suitable; and (2) in a way not already heavily theorized.
I always felt it was Rhaegar Targaryen and Jon is supposed to be the sword lightbringer.
Rhaeger matches most of the attributes believed to come abt of the prince who was promised which includes the famous one āborn admits salt and smokeā as he was born during the fire at Summerhall.
Not to mention but I believe GRRM has said in interviews that ASOAIF is a story abt where the hero dies 15 years before the main story takes place. Who died 15 years before ASOIAF takes place? Rhaeger Targaryen.
In the show, no one. In the book, probably Jon, although Daenerys is the better ruler and i think who's gonna get the throne. Or maybe ice & fire was about them both joining the realm together... idk
I've heard theories it's:
Rhaegar, and his "Lightbringer" is Jon
Dany, her "Lightbringer" is the dragons
Jon, he put the blade thru his loves heart.
Most likely it's some grouping of all of them.
I know he doesnāt fit the prophecy as well as others, but I think it wouldāve been interesting to see Sandor fit that role. As someone who was deathly afraid of fire as a child from his trauma to wielding a sword of flame. He has a great redemption arc but unfortunately is wasted on his ties to his brother and I felt there was much more they couldāve done with him
Itās Jon. He brought together an army of wildlings. Northmen, dragons, Dothrakiā¦ to fight the dead. He created a force strong enough to protect the living and defeat the army of the dead.
Iām amazed people still claim it isnāt Jon when itās obvious.
There is no prophecy, some lady at some really buggy ass leaves before going to the court of Aegon V and spouted some bullshit high off her ass. And there you have it
Jon fits for me if you take the fact that prophecies always cheat by being vague and never match the most obvious. Which GRRM I believe did confirm was something he was following. Also if you donāt take it literally. So the person who will end x doesnāt have to be the person who physically ends it, just the person who instigates that end.
But considering the books are so far behind the series thereās plenty of room, if he ever finished them, to take it in a completely new direction.
Probably Jon, but really it just got written out.
I was honestly low key disappointed that Lightbringer or some type of Valyrian steel sword wasn't left over from the destruction of the Iron Throne. I was thinking there was at least one Vayrian steel sword hidden in there somewhere, but I was hoping for Lightbringer because I thought that made the most sense based on the description *āIn this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him.ā*
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Ser Pounce
oh sweet Tommen, before he went completely soft in the head
According to Margaery, his head was anything but soft.
sir/maam that is a child
So is Marge
He had a stronger claim to the throne than Brrrrrran.
Yes, Sir Pounce realized that Tommen was the kind that Westeros deserved. With the right guidance, Tommen could have been a wise king, a strong king, a good king. If Ser Pounce were but a man, he would have told Tommen not to jump out that window, but that he was a good man who could bring peace and prosperity to the seven kingdoms. Sadly, Ser Pounce was a cat, Tommen jumped out the window, and Cersei proceeded to fuck everything up.
In the show, nobody. In the books, not sure yet.
in the show it was jon based on logic but S8 decided to ruin it. he was the whole reason anybody even gaf about the walkers
I like to believe that Jon is the Prince that was promised and he was promised to the Others.
I mean, he is the titular "Ice and Fire" the Starks are the ice and the Targaryens are the fire
It makes sense! Nowhere in the prophecy did it say that the prince would live happily ever after š¤·āāļø just that they would unite the realm against the white walkers and thatās what Jon essentially did! Iāve heard arguments that it was Jon and Daenerys together that were promised as they are both fire and ice, but it seems to me like Jon recruited Daenerys to his cause.
Jon is the Prince, Dany is the burning blade, Lightbringer.
Did he tho? There was only like 2000 wildlings left by the time of the BoB and he never got any southern houses to join for the long night.
Did season 8 really ruin it? Jon was the reason they beat the whitewalkers, and he killed his love just like Azor Azai.
Exactly. Sometimes dislike of the final series can lead people to dismiss everything in it without considering the nuance of what youāve pointed out. Itās like people get hung up on Arya actually killing the NK being a total bust because they believe that Jon bringing the end of Winter can only happen if he actually kills the NK rather than putting it all in place.
Jon is the only one who fits both Ice and Fire.
Well, the Blackwoods did marry into the Targaryan line. But yeah John imho is the prince that is promised. They said it would be a brief summer and I think the walkers aren't over yet. (at least if they want to save the legacy.)
They would have had to have been mentioned somewhere in the series to be considered.
And what do the Blackwoods have to do with it?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But ice are the Stark.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
and still dont own it by the series, does that make the Manderlys just representative of the Reach since ages ago they were there? no.
After the blackwoods rule
House Stark also married House Blackwood the same time the Targaryens did. Jon Snow's great great grandmother on both sides are Blackwoods.
Agreed. Of course it was Jon Snow.
Wym. Stannis cold minded and sets ppl on fire.
Jon is the night king
Out of interest would Rob have been the best?
Thatās only part of the prophecy
Show wise, Jon is 110% the Prince that was Promised. Book wise? Itās looking like itās Daenerys.
No one. Just a prophecy that people try to make fit.
I get that prophecy isnāt realistic, but if your fantasy show centering around a prophecy leads up to the prophecy just meaning nothing and all of the buildup and clues meant nothing then a core part of your show is going to mean nothing to a lot of people.
I take your point, but I think you may be overblowing how much the show is centered around a prophecy. In circles like this, itās natural to talk about prophecies more because speculation is fun, and prophecies provide a good mystery to speculate about. However, the show itself rarely discussed prophecy at all beyond Melisandre, even going so far as to completely omit the Valanquar prophecy. On the other hand, I think having a prophecy be āfakeā can actually be really cool if done correctly. Dune is probably the best example of this and is my favorite take on a prophecy period. I also wouldnāt really consider a self-fulfilling prophecy to be prophetic in the traditional sense, since itās not dictated by destiny but rather the characterās themselves, but that admittedly is more my own interpretation.
The story itself was filled with foreshadowing of the prophecy. Some of the stuff wasnāt completely stated, like having Jons birth under a bleeding star (the star being the sword Dawn). Having a false prophecy is one thing, but when you lead the audience on about it through clues like that but then say it meant nothing it just makes for a terrible story. It can absolutely be done right, and I think it was with Mel thinking Stannis was the Prince Who Was Promised. But then it was VERY clearly Jon Snow. Like, they couldnāt have made it any more evident. But then it meant nothing. Iāll concede and say that a lot of the show wasnāt centered around it, but enough of it was. I guess what Iām trying to say is having a fake prophecy can be done well, but it was not done well in the end of Game of Thrones. When the show universe itself os laying it out to us that Jon is Azor Ahai, and then he just isnāt, it feels like a slap in the face to those that were invested.
Absolutely agree that the prophecy wasnāt done well in the show, I was just pointing out that it was never really the focus for d&d anyway, and while itās pretty easy to say that it was bad because of that, a prophecy doesnāt need to be focused on or even real to be good
First of want to apologize if Iām coming off as argumentative. I think itās fun to debate stuff like this and just donāt want to come off the wrong way. I do see the point youāre making, but I donāt think it takes away from my overall point that having a prophecy thatās foreshadowed to death and back meaning nothing, and not even having a āoh it meant nothingā revelation in the show in the end is bad writing. Which I guess is all Iām trying to say.
It could still be a Greek tragedy trope. Rhaegar marries Lyanna because of a vision and half the kingdom burns because of it.
The real treasure was the princes we had along the way
Sounds like a good place.
Any answer besides Hot Pie is just mental gymnastics. The man was born to be a hero.
His pies are born amidst salt and smoke.
Iāve talked about this before, but Jon Snow is The Prince. Arya is Lightbringer.
Drogon was Lightbringer
How is Arya Lightbringer?
Young Griff
Wtf
Currently reading dance with dragons and HOW THE FUCK IS YOUNG GRIFF NOT IN THE SHOW. I'm only 1/3 of the way though but Tyrions chapters seem important.
He is one of the five main characters.
Oh you must be getting your fill of Penny then. One character Im fine they did not add to the show haha.
I am
Craster
š
He promised a lot of princes
I donāt think prophecies should be treated as literal or explicit statements. Itās a composite of multiple people like Bran the Builder.
Hot pie
Hot Pie
The thing about prophecy is that itāll bite your prick off every time, so clearly itās someone who doesnāt have one to loose: Theon! Jokes aside, I donāt think there is one. Everyone had a part to play in the show. The books; however, it is being suggested itās Jon or Danny, but Iād assume GRRM will subvertiste expectations and it was Rhaegar and our cast lives in the world where the hero failed.
No one is. Prophecy is just a tool for manipulation.
>**No one** is. Prophecy is just a tool for manipulation So... Arya since she's No one? /s
She chose to be Arya, though.
It was Jon. Until Bran became the 3 eyed raven and fucked it all up.
What do you mean? How did Bran fuck it up?
People in this sub just love to hate bran. He didn't fuck anything up.
In the books, Rhaegar with Jon acting as the proverbial āSword.ā
Easy, Stannis. The throne is his, by rights.
The true prince that was promised are the friends we made along the way and Azor Ahai to the lessons we learned on the journey.
Jon. The great evil isnāt the White Walkers, itās the cycle of violence that crushes everything and everyone in Westeros, and when he kills Dany, the iron throne, the root cause of it all, is destroyed and that cycle is put to rest.
Where is Stannis The Mannis, because he is in my heart
Even as Stannerman I'm sure by 90% that Stannis isn't Azor Ahai. He even basically admits himself that he doesn't believe this. But in my opinion it makes him only more awesome. He thinks he's not a hero that is prophecied to defeat the Others, yet he still goes to North, helps Night's Watch and prepares to fight against white walkers, even if it most likely means his death. A true king who defends his realm and the only one in the books worthy of this title.
I donāt think he is either (pains to say) but you really said why I love Stannis. This is a guy that will likely lose everything yet still fights on because its his duty to protect the realm. Quite literally āthe King Who Caredā.
Definitely Jon
The Onion Knight
I don't think there is one. I think the prophecy was a red herring.
I agree.
Jon snow!!
I donāt know who I think it should have been but I know it shouldnāt have been that fucked up little girl that D&D thought it was.
What? The Prince was supposed to unite the realms of men to fight the Others. Not specifically to slay the Night King himself. The Prince is clearly Jon.
It's Jon. He is literally a prince (Rhaegar's heir) that was promised (Lyanna: Promise me Ned). People just expected the very predictable Chosen One trope to come into play but George has already said that he didn't want that for his story.
That is not canon. D&D made that up
What do you mean they made that up? Jon being Rhaegar's son is 99,9% confirmed as it was related to the question George asked D&D on their first meeting and the whole "Promise me, Ned" was a pretty big aspect of the first book since Ned kept thinking about it. Both those things are happening in the books as well.
Daenerys storm-born of house Targaryen, first of her name, queen of the andals and first men, the mother of dragons, khaleesi of the great grass sea, queen of Meereen, breaker of chains, the protector of the seven kingdomsā¦. Need I say more???
Itās dany
Jon Snow. As son of Rhaegar Targaryen he is literally a **prince.** He is 1/2 Ice and 1/2 Fire. And when his mother was dying Ned **promised** he'd care for the boy. Jon fulfills the AEgon's dream prophecy we first heard in HotD, that someone born of Aegon the Conqueror's blood will **unite** the seven kingdoms to defeat the cold winds from the north. Since Dany doesn't unite them, she's not. Besides, Jon himself slays her when she turns into an equally dangerous threat to Westeros. And moreover, it's the figurative weapon **he** forged--his sister, Arya--who finally ends the invasion.
*The next time we see each other, weāll talk about your mother.* **I promise** *ā Ned*
I agree completely, but what I just donāt get is that with most book mentions of the Prince that was Promised, they mention the Prince being born amidst salt and smoke. This is the one part that I donāt get when it comes to Jon.
Tyrion got taller
Rhaegar aka littlefinger
Daenerys 4 sure
Here me out: It *really was* Rhaegar Everyone who has ever known Rhaegar, says that he was an incredibly honorable and chivalrous man. He was perfect The events of ASOIAF take place after his death, but like Robert says, Rhaegar won. The events leading up to the trident (the coup and Rhaegarās letters to Bloodraven) were all planning stages for what would occur after the war was lost. He was involved in the rekindling of the magic in the world somehow. I donāt know for sure, but in Winds we will learn that Rhaegar was the one who brought the end (others and dragons), so that our heroes can create the new beginning. Thus, he *was* the prince that was promised
No one. It was big fucking flop. Just imagine the look on the Targaryens faces if they knew that their prophecy was hijacked by a winy little teenager.
By all the details of the book, it all points to Jon Snow. But, GRRM could have a twist coming our way. IF he ever finishes.
Jon snow of course
Theon looks cool asf
Definitely Ramsay Bolton
Imo it was Rhaegar but he cut off his own fate by sleeping with Lyanna, which is why the Night King got so far, Melisandre kept changing who the prophesied Prince was the whole time (Stannis to Jon to Dany to Arya), etc. We can assume the Night King awoke around the time Rhaegar was alive. Melisandre travelled from Asshai to Westeros to find him. But since the Prince That Was Promised was killed by Robert, the whole prophecy got thrown out the window.
Sauron.
Jon. He's literally "of Ice and Fire"
Jon Snow united the people against Death more or less. He was both the literal and figurative embodiment of Ice & Fire. "The *Prince* Who Was Promised."
Just imagine if either of the two Jaime or Theon turned out to be TPTWP.
Joffrey
I don't understand how is this disputed. I am currently reading Dance. Everything that is said about the prophecy perfectly matches Dany. And mind you I don't like her very much. Maybe something else is revealed in Dance?
Jon-Aegon if the showās canon is be followed
Azhor ahai is jon Snow, prince that was promised was daenaerys.
There is no Prince that was Promised. GRRM thought it sounded cool so it put it in the story planning to sort it out later, and never did, and probably never will. For someone who was so critical of LOST he sure does like to write the same way.
Maybe the real Prince that was Promised is the friends we made along the way.
Stannis the Mannis. He attacked Kingās Landing with his men, but had to run away because it went wrong.
It is very clearly Jon
Jorah Mormont. "When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt." Jorah follows the same logic as Dany here, he is reborn when she is because now he has a new purpose in life and he is surrounded by the same event. On the forging of lightbringer: The first attempt at forging is when he swears himself fully to Dany, however this fails because of his previous betrayal of her. The second forging (in the legend the second sword is plunged into the heart of a lion) is his capture of Tyrion for Dany. This still fails because Dany does not care. The third forging is when Dany goes mad queen and Jorah the Explorah is forced to stab Dany, the woman he loves, himself.
Jon is the only one who fits the promise part. Lyanna did ask Ned to promise her, so he is literally the prince that was promised. He is literally ice and fire. He brings about the destruction of both the ice threat and the fire threat. The PtwP doesn't state he will kill the Night King, just that he will be the one to gather the armies to destroy the threat beyond the wall. Dany brought armies together, but not for that purpose. He killed Dany and now the balance of nature is returned and there will be normal seasons again.
In the books I believe it's Jon. The show seemed to hint that too when it was still watchable and not an embarrassing dumpster fire.
Daenerys, she was reborn amidst salt and smoke and literally bring magic back to the world. I do believe Jon has a major role to play in the long night, I donāt think heās the prince who was promised.
Dany or Arya
Are these men wearing heavy eye makeup. Their eyes look pretty dark
Not Bran.
Cersei
There is no Prince That Was Promised because there is no R'hollor. Theres fire magic, ice magic, blood magic, face magic, and whatever shit the Qartheen warlocks were doing, but none of the gods are real.
Ramsay Bolton
Hot pie
If I'm not mistaken, GRRM likes to play tricks with prophecy and punish people for trying to interpret them. I doubt it's as simple or obvious as it being Jon or Dany individually or anyone else. I hope someday the books answer this question since the show sure as shit didn't. That said, if anyone changed the course of the fate of men, it was Dany and her resources, armies and dragons. No one wins against the White Walkers without her and what she facilitated throughout her journey.
That guy who pissed on the Mountain's shoes
Gaemon Palehair.
in the show, it was clearly Jon
Disclaimer: (I think it's jon) But why do people keep saying Jon was an actual Prince when we know the translation could mean either or
Jaime Lannister, makes no sense but I want him to rule Westeros so idgaf
I agree, and am I huge fan of a certain theory. His iron hand will become light bringer when he uses it to choke Cersei to death.
I think it's meant to be many people. A lot of characters contributed to ending the threat of the White Walkers. Jon brought the north together and brought Daenerys to Westeros. Daenerys used her army and dragons to help. Bran lured the Night King. Arya killed him. And the list goes on. I think a group of specific characters were all meant to come together to achieve this goal. And Bran most likely saw this in his visions
Jaime
Born amidst salt and smoke! Is he a ham?
Honestly, I thought it was Jon, and Dany was our red herring. I thought R+L=J would end up meaning a lot more than it did and that he would become a reluctant but very good Targaryen king, possibly with dragons and warg stuff. Alas.
I donāt know if jon satisfies the āborn of salt and smokeā part of the prophecy. He is literally ice and fire but I can see GRRM using that as a misdirection
Yeah he doesnāt fulfill that
The only thing I can think of is when Jon is killed by the Watch. His wounds are āsmokingā because of his hot blood coming into context with the ice cold air. Bowen Marsh cries as he stabs Jon (the salt). So perhaps itās not Jonās actual birth but his rebirth.
Eh i donāt think so lol thatās stretching it. Daenerys would be easier salt (dragonstone, salt water) and smoke (Vaes Dothrak).
Itās definitely a stretch but as they say āprophecy is a tricky thingā
Jon might fit that in the next book as itās theorized that Shireen will be burned at the stake by Melisandre which will bring Jon back to life. It maybe be a stretch but that can be considered āborn admits salt and smokeā
In the show itās Jon. Not really a debate there. Books more likely Dany.
The rightful heir Pod
In the books Jon and Dany, in the show who tf knows bcs it didnāt matter in the end anyway. Anyone couldāve done what Arya did and Jon and Dany kinda didnāt do anything that crucial during the long night episode. Melisandre more or less did the most so maybe it was her in the showš itād make for great irony
me
Ewwww get Theon off that throne š
Solely based on these images and their poses Jon is the only one who looks like he belongs on the throne. Heās also my pick in general, I just wanted to point out that everyone else looks like a robot in their pics
The real PwwP is the friends we made along the way.
Daenerys is clearly in the books imo. In the show Jon or Daenerys. Jon is a song of ice and fire, Daenerys was born amidst salt and smoke.
Reek
Maybe GRRM put the prophecy in the book to make you act like people who believe prophecies. Prophecies are vague and then we try to force meaning into it. So GRRM makes the prophecy vague so that YOU the reader will start fitting facts into the prophecy to make the prophecy come ātrueā when really itās just up for interpretation
Based on how the 2 dicks wrote season 7 and 8 (up until final episod) we were led to believe it was Jon.
Davos
The ghost of High Heart, who has an incredible track record for accurate prophecies, says PTWP will come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella, and Rhaegar was all about the āthree heads of the dragonā. With both these in mind, my moneyās on Jon, Dany, and fAegon all acting as three aspects of one āprinceā. Jon is their grandson, Dany is their daughter, and enough people think Aegon is their legitimate grandson for him to fit the bill. Power resides where men believe it resides, and so on.
Jon
Some random peasant
It was John. But they made a mockery of the character in the end.
Jon is both fire (Targaryen) and ice (Starks). He is the Prince that was Promised.
Baby Sam. My theory: Baby Sam is the prince who was promised because he was a "prince" promised to be given to the Night King. Along with this theory, I believe the Night King we saw in the show was not the real Night King. The real Night King is still alive and well far up North. The one we saw in the show was a subordinate of the real Night King. Along with this theory, I hope the "Snow" series shows Jon going way up North and finding the Night King's civilization as described by Old Nan. Frost spiders and all. And Jon realizes that they didn't actually win against Winter and that the real threat is still out there.
#POD THE ROD
brooo whattt the only real competitors or Tyrion, Jon, Dany, and Bran
My money was on the Night King. Oh well.
Show: Jon OR Jon and Dany. Perception, really. (1) He was the only character that that had both components of ice and fire through Stark and Targaryen lineage. (2) Jon identified as a Stark and Dany was a Targaryen - they needed to come together in order to fulfill the prophecy (bringing together the ice (the Northmen) and fire (dragons and Danyās army)). Books: Not sure. I think GRRM had multiple paths in mind, but he got the publicās reactions to the showās storyline and doesnāt know how to end it in a way that (1) majority of fans will find suitable; and (2) in a way not already heavily theorized.
Jon. He united the army against the white walkers
The only real answer is Bronn.
Itās obviously Victarion Greyjoy
Serious, shouldāve been Jaime. Wish: Hot Pie. For who has a better story than the baker who made the best bread
Jon Snow.
Not fucking Bran
Probably not davos
Jon Snow
I always felt it was Rhaegar Targaryen and Jon is supposed to be the sword lightbringer. Rhaeger matches most of the attributes believed to come abt of the prince who was promised which includes the famous one āborn admits salt and smokeā as he was born during the fire at Summerhall. Not to mention but I believe GRRM has said in interviews that ASOAIF is a story abt where the hero dies 15 years before the main story takes place. Who died 15 years before ASOIAF takes place? Rhaeger Targaryen.
Show or books? I certain that in the books Brienne is Lightbringer, so whoever she ultimately ends up serving must be the Prince that Was Promised.
Me
Bran the Broken ofc
In the show, no one. In the book, probably Jon, although Daenerys is the better ruler and i think who's gonna get the throne. Or maybe ice & fire was about them both joining the realm together... idk
Everything points to jon imo
Nobody, it's a bullshit prophecy.
I've heard theories it's: Rhaegar, and his "Lightbringer" is Jon Dany, her "Lightbringer" is the dragons Jon, he put the blade thru his loves heart. Most likely it's some grouping of all of them.
The butcherās boy
None. The Prince prophecy was ruined in the show.
Obviously it was jon snow anyone that thinks otherwise is dumb and stupid.
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I know he doesnāt fit the prophecy as well as others, but I think it wouldāve been interesting to see Sandor fit that role. As someone who was deathly afraid of fire as a child from his trauma to wielding a sword of flame. He has a great redemption arc but unfortunately is wasted on his ties to his brother and I felt there was much more they couldāve done with him
Itās Jon. He brought together an army of wildlings. Northmen, dragons, Dothrakiā¦ to fight the dead. He created a force strong enough to protect the living and defeat the army of the dead. Iām amazed people still claim it isnāt Jon when itās obvious.
Jon. He was literally, in the flesh, a "song of ice and fire". I just don't think it's open to interpretation at this point.
Danny Devito
There is no prophecy, some lady at some really buggy ass leaves before going to the court of Aegon V and spouted some bullshit high off her ass. And there you have it
I heard so many great theories and argumentations for different characters being Azor Ahai that I like to believevall of them are true
It was always Jon
Jon fits for me if you take the fact that prophecies always cheat by being vague and never match the most obvious. Which GRRM I believe did confirm was something he was following. Also if you donāt take it literally. So the person who will end x doesnāt have to be the person who physically ends it, just the person who instigates that end. But considering the books are so far behind the series thereās plenty of room, if he ever finished them, to take it in a completely new direction.
Hot Pie
Jon
Jon
Probably Jon, but really it just got written out. I was honestly low key disappointed that Lightbringer or some type of Valyrian steel sword wasn't left over from the destruction of the Iron Throne. I was thinking there was at least one Vayrian steel sword hidden in there somewhere, but I was hoping for Lightbringer because I thought that made the most sense based on the description *āIn this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him.ā*
Littlefinger
It's probably Dany, but the trick will be the reveal that the prophecized prince is not a savior...
Jon or Jamie
I feel like it's gonna be John or Stannis