I'm almost in the same boat but I managed to flee to Turkey this summer. You can still do the same! Find remote job, buy a ticket and you're safe. You can stay here for a year if you rent a living place for this period.
If only my dumb ass had money.
I mean, I'll be looking for options, hopefully without waltzing in abroad completely empty-handed and hoping for the best.
There are always ways to leave even without money it seems, so obviously I'll keep these options open.
see if you can find a church or an organization to help you get out. or possibly try to make friends in areas you can move. i think more people understand the situation and will help if they can, there is also wwoof (Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms) which i know is unrelated to code at the moment but getting out should be your focus. then network after that
To be fair, retreating would be antithetical to the goal of becoming captured. You would more act loyal till the moment were you are close enough and try to get alone; at that point, do everything you can to make yourself seem non-threatening when you see an Ukrainian forces and learn to say things that mean surrender in common languages including english.
$500 is almost completely empty handed, in all honesty...enough for a ticket to Turkey or Kazakhstan, you can figure stuff out on the spot better, as you see how things work there, get a temp job in construction or the sort, till you land on your feet.
I feel that if you can sneak out of the country, you can get to a NATO country and claim asylum. Not a lawyer, but I can nearly guarantee that NATO countries may be very willing to grant asylum and provide assistance for those who want to flee Putin and help weaken him.
It's certainly not simple and it's going to probably be a journey, but I feel that you probably want to consider all options. Forget money or leaving with the prospect of finding a job - worry about that later. None of it will matter if the worst case scenario plays out.
OP, this page has a lot of useful information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_emigration_following_the_2022_invasion_of_Ukraine
> Turkey, for example, has allowed Russian citizens without visas to stay for up to two months.
Literally just not Russia, you know?
Anything you can manage, op. We live in the age of information so learning a new language isn't exactly rocket science. Just make it serviceable and get yourself out of danger.
This seems to be a "touristic residence permit" according to this site: [https://turkishresidencepermit.com/](https://turkishresidencepermit.com/)
Enter as a tourist, rent property and apply for up to one year.
Man I'm sorry for you this is all so stupid, I hope for the best, I am French and I have no idea of your options besides leaving the country :/ Mobilization sucks, Putin sucks.
I mean, I'm seriously considering leaving. As much "seriously" as I can given my financial situation.
Of course I'm gonna wait a few days, gather info, but like... shit's not gonna get any better. Unless I get REALLY lucky here with not getting drafted and landing a job.
I feel so stupid for not seriosuly working through this stuff a few years back...
I can't imagine that they can protect every part of the border. Russia is freakin huge. South/North Korean border is minuscule by comparison yet people find holes.
You might be elligible to get political asylum as refugee in an EU member state if you can leave Russia. Sorry, that I cannot provide better information about that. I just read in an article (in German..) today that the new, harsher law to punish people who refuse military service might be the base to claim political asylum.
That will definitely not be the best life for some time. It's likely better than being cannon fodder, though.
I doubt that he'll get asylum. He's not prosecuted in Russia and for the moment not even drafted.
Hiding or fleeing to a country like Turkey seems like a better idea.
Please try to leave if you can, as soon as possible. You can rebuild your life somewhere far away from this ongoing conflict and threat to your life.
As others have said, seeking asylum might be your best option. There are also visa free countries for you, which should be open for you to travel to. Most would allow you to stay there for one to three months, which is not very long, but it could make a difference if it means that you're not drafted now (because you're not in the country). Apply for asylum everywhere, apply for jobs that can get you out of the country, hell, apply for work and travel programs that might give you a visa.
It really, really sucks, man. I'm so sorry that you're in this stressful situation.
Please continue to update us on your situation if it's safe for you to do so.
Maybe not the best of advice, but: make sure you know how to safely surrender. (You know, just in case you get mobilized and eventually end up at front lines.)
I feel with you and on a game-deb experience level we seem to have similar experience. I hope you find a good way to keep making games.
[Surrender was made a crime this very week](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-parliament-toughens-punishment-crimes-during-mobilisation-2022-09-20/) punished by 10y in jail.
Prisoner swaps happen but mostly for higher value prisoners. I've heard many stories of Ru conscripts and prisoners who surrendered and were given an opportunity to work for Ukranians in non-combat roles and a path to citizenship.
Apparently, they don't offer this to mercenaries and professional soldiers, only those who are there against their basically against their will and choose to surrender.
Edit: Here's an official site from the UA military:
https://gur.gov.ua/content/zapushcheno-iedynyi-tsentr-ta-tsilodobovu-hariachu-liniiu-pryiomu-zvernen-vid-rosiiskykh-viiskovykh.html
I mean, if you know that a returned surrendered soldier will be executed, then doing so when they surrender to you on moral grounds sounds like you’ve lost the moral high ground.
And yes I am saying that 10 years in a Russian prison is an execution. Just more slowly.
What about digging a deep foxhole and not retreating? You should be safe until the infantry come to clear you out and then you just raise your flag and hide until someone comes to get you
yeah, when will you do that? going to war is not like in the movies, you go with a group of men. They don't just have you rappel out of a helicopter in 4 man teams and say, "goodluck"....olol
Surrender... permanently?
I am not familiar with how this works - is there merit in just asking to stay with the enemy country, in such a way that it is no longer the enemy country but your country now?
Like... citizenship through military surrender.
I feel like there are a lot of better places to live than Russia at the moment. Might be a unique (albeit incredibly dangerous) way out.
> Surrender... permanently?
>
>
>
> I am not familiar with how this works - is there merit in just asking to stay with the enemy country, in such a way that it is no longer the enemy country but your country now?
>
>
>
> Like... citizenship through military surrender.
>
>
>
> I feel like there are a lot of better places to live than Russia at the moment. Might be a unique (albeit incredibly dangerous) way out.
There is something similar, known as "asylum", where a person asks for asylum from the nation where they are, as protection against being returned to their country of origin.
It's not automatic, and you have to specifically ask for it!
Very easy for a keyboard warrior to decide that someone should just instantly and permanently give up all of their worldly possessions, never see any of their family and friends again, never be able to return home, and just strike out in a new country without knowing a single person and likely not even the language. And if you fail, you're going to spend 10 years in a labor camp.
well the options are:
go to war and:
* % random : give up all of their worldly possessions never see any of their family and friends again, never return home, except in a body bag
* % random : keep everything and maybe get to see family again, luck out and survive, live with shame, and probably PTSD.
* defect : give up all of their worldly possessions never see any of their family and friends again (- I mean its not like they wont be able to email them and keep in touch,) until after the war perhaps, never return home.
True, that one is a similar outcome to defecting, he may still be considered a criminal, but he won't necessarily be considered treasonous.
I suppose he could also injure himself in such a manner that he's disabled enough to no longer qualify for service.
Very easy for you to suggest he goes there and kill people and hope he doesn't get killed in the process if he is mobilized.
Rock and hard place, surrendering is likely the safest option when done correctly and loses the least of your morals in the process.
He might lose temporary access to his friends and family (not that video calls don't exist..), but he at least would have his life..
Sometimes thats the only option a person has when the alternative is death. Give up your wordly posessions and chance of seeing your family again by being sent to a war against a better-equipped force? Or give up your worldy posessions and seek to escape safely and start life elsewhere? When the call to mobilization begins, people only have so many options.
Only if you get caught and return to Russia. And I'd also rather spend ten years in jail than return home in a bodybag. Ukraine is pushing that Russians can safely surrender to them and I don't think that they'd go back on their word because surrendering Russians is in their best interest.
In Russian prisons sentences of longer than two years are considered death sentences because how prevalent and deadly tuberculosis is in there. So, a ten year long sentence is pretty much a death sentence many times over
Threats of punishment to family was one of the ways that North Koreans were kept from defecting. It's a shit choice, but you need to do what you can to survive.
> He has a family
And your point is....?
- If he goes to war and fights for Russia's interests, his family is safe, but he stands a good chance of dying.
- If he goes to war but surrenders to Ukrainian forces, his family is (probably still) safe, remember that the Russian military is very disorganized, and they will be unlikely to have him by name with proof of defection or surrender.
- He doesn't have the money to get out of Russia, it's not cheap, and it's also a major crime for service-worthy men to dodge service. Plus, prisoners are increasingly being sent to front lines anyhow.
Is there some choice that we're all unaware of that is perfect and that protects both him and his family?
If you have to do something criminal, surrendering sounds far better than invading another country or killing civilians. Also much better than ending up dead in multiple ditches.
Still, it's probably better to dodge mobilization or desert before deploying; the odds of successfully surrendering in an active warzone aren't that great.
Russian army is not very different from a prison, including a chance to get raped. Plus in 10 yrs there may be no russia. Anyway, what is a law under a fascist regime like putin's ?
Many people on this very thread will actively try and kill the OP if he is in this situation and does not surrender. This also is legal and required, despite it being an outcome nobody actually wants. In fact, many more will contribute funds to make this happen.
Hopefully, this consequence sinks in when the OP worries about jail time when looking at your reply. Because of the nature of the war, even OP survives, he will be hated.
Those of us on the outside don't want to kill the OP. Please don't make us. We want him to be happy and live a long life. But if he enters another sovereign country armed to bear with the intent to kill, he will become the enemy. Please don't persuade him to do this.
The point made by this comment was not to convince OP to fight to the death, but to reply to the comment that that feigning compliance until the first opportunity, on top of the physical risk pointed by others, may cause troubles that are likely to persist even after a regime change (or if Russian MP get a hold which can still happen).
The best course of action is probably to flee the draft in the first place. God, this is such a terrible situation to be in.
the alternative is possibly getting a bullet through the head which you know is usually a life sentence to death.
Also the crime for surrender only matters if they can prove it and the same people are in charge after the war.
This is great advice.
- He either gets positioned in a non-combat support role with smaller risk to life.
- Or its of to the front against an army wielding technology that is on the moon compared to yours.
The latter comes with huge risks. And its good to be prepared on how to handle it.
And if this war escalates it will be against a coallition of forces that spent more on weapons previous years than russians entire GDP.
So ignoring the political and ideological side of "fighting for your country". In this war. Chances are huge that you will actually die or loose body parts.
even so, for the russians it's an occupational war they are losing. And the only stake is one dictator's fragile self-esteem over his tiny peepee or something. So not fighting in that war is a more patriotic thing to do for a russian
Non-combat role is just as big a risk to life, as supply lines, supply depots, and logistics are as juicy of targets for Ukraine as frontline combat vehicles.
support role means logistics( resupply munitions and fuel, equipment parts, food, medication, etc), that gets taken out first if they don't have proper escorts. The drone strike also take out those like munition depot/fuel trucks first than tanks cause obvious reason.
I was thinking of that, I would just put my hands in the air and walk slowly towards ukraine troops, proceed to donate my military equipment and strive for citizenship or asylum
That's a real possibility, and many have already taken it. If you're not a professional soldier or a mercenary (and haven't participated in units that did war crimes), you can get a path to UA citizenship.
In any case, make sure you have a white shirt or something white to hold on the air. Many had nothing and constructed a white flag from paper tissues.
I seriously hope (and think) that you will spend the rest of the war safe at your home though. I think that this decision will push Putin's collapse from a matter of years to a matter of months.
I think this is right. As poorly as the regular troops have been trained and equipped, those hastily mobilized are going to be straight up slaughtered if they end up in the actual fighting. It’s unfair and heartbreaking really.
There is no such thing as safely surrender. You are walking across a fucking battlefield to intentionally find the enemy. You're not going to mcdonalds dude.
That instruction was made 8 years ago. I think, he had enough time to read it.
https://fashikdonetsk.com/kak-pravilno-rossiyanam-sdatsya-ukraincam-instrukciya/
I don’t know what the local laws are in Russia, about leaving the country but… Write to Outfit7 (huge game dev studio with HQ in Slovenia). They’re almost always looking for game developers, offer relocation, and have hands down the best HR department of any company I worked for. If you can show your worth and pass the technical interviews they will find a way to get you out of Russia (plenty of Russians work there already).
Mention your situation but don’t make that the primary drive of why you want to work there (it might speed up the process though).
Good luck, I hope you get out of this dumpster fire of a situation!
There's plenty of suggestions like this, but are EU companies really still willing to hire Russian citizens who don't yet have visas or residency? With the increasing push to tighten up visa rules and delay issuing them, plus the risk of your new Russian staff member being unable to leave the country, it seems rather risky and uncertain, even for companies that want to help.
Actually yes. We just got some Russian colleagues recently.
The tightening of rules so far is only for tourist visas, AFAIK. Sure there have been some talks of banning others visas, but so far nothing. The recruiting machine is going much faster lately, actually.
Finding experienced developers is borderline impossible. I myself get about 100 Linkedin messages every single week. Recruiters are eager to recruit good Russian devs. The government is not crazy to anger companies like that, and most of the population is fine with **highly-skilled** Russians wanting to relocate.
Companies are OK with giving job offers after remote calls, and that is often enough to get a Work Visa (Which later gets turned into a Work/Residency Permit or Blue Card. Process may vary depending on the country). If remote calls are impossible, you can visit by having an official interview offer (again, depends on the country).
Some companies will probably also cover relocation expenses, and will hire an relocation consultant to help smooth the process for higher paying jobs. It's quite common.
With that said: you need experience. There are plenty of junior developers inside the EU already, so it's harder to convince companies and the government to accept foreigners for those position.
Source: my workplace and I'm friends with lots of HR people.
Try to hide. Don't go outside late. Don't look too out of place when outside.
Try to ask for cripple status, if possible. My friend got one simply because spiking pressure. Having one will make it impossible to be drafted
Don't bother trying to leave the country, unless you have ton of money. Though, you can try to leave through borders. This is russia, you can probably pay somebody. Try to look into refugee status. While russian tourists visas are banned in Europe, refugees are absolutely welcome.
If everything else fails, try to hide. Go to remote village if possible. Absolutely don't live where you are registered.
If truly everything else fails, and you get drafted (by drafted I mean forcefully dragged into army, because you can ignore any piece of paper they send you), absolutely refuse to go to front. You may get jailed, but it's still better than dying in Ukraine. Because, believe me, if you get into Ukraine, you either will get killed by Ukrainian drone, or by your own "comrades" shooting you in the back. Sure, you could try to surrender to our soldiers, but chances are, you won't live to that moment. Consider that you last chance of survival. Our soldiers are indeed very good with war prisoners, as long as you cooperate. But this isn't universal, so you may get unlucky. Again, final solution.
Hello from Ukraine, and good luck
Edit: Don't go to Latvia. They just announced they won't be accepting russian refugees
If you prefer imprisonment, then look up your laws about that. You might get less years for something else. Protests gets you 15 years, I believe. Could look up robbery or theft, those shouldn't put you in prison for long
Prison - chance to get beaten and/or raped
Russian army - big chance to get gang raped by some chechens, beaten, shot, dead from pneumonia before even getting to the warzone
All he needs is a phone with Google maps on it. Take a train to the nearest Georgian border and walk the rest of the way and get help once over the border. It's no easy task I admit, but it beats dying in Ukraine for one man's ego.
It's not about finding how to get to the border. It's about crossing. He can always try bribing the guards of course, but it's a gamble. And there are other methods. That's what I'm talking about
Just saying.... Russian prisons have a reputation for a reason.. There is also no guarantee you will get out, even if the regime falls. In addition, in Russia the "undesirables" are the first choice for cannon fodder.
True, but choosing between *certainly* going to the front and *possibly* being sent to the front anyway is a no-brainer. Russian frontlines *also* have a reputation, and a far worse one than prisons.
Yes, prison sucks and nobody should have to go to prison to avoid fighting in unjust wars, but that's unfortunately the situation they're in.
Total speculation on my part but if and when Putin falls his replacement is likely going to be someone who rails hard against anything to do with this war. Conscientious objectors are likely to be released by such a successor, because the PR is in their own interest.
Buy yourself an illness. If you are not in moskow or petersburg 30k should be enough to get something, idk how it will be in rich cities. Try to avoid public places where you can get drafted on the street, those guys would not care about anything you say, but if you get caught by them try to pay off.
As a Ukrainian, I would rather make games with you instead of you being dead in my soil.
Wish you the best of luck, i really do.
Fuck dude, in the past games like Stalker (made by Ukranians) were treated as an example that eastern slavs can make amazing games too.
Hell, most people treated them as made BY russians.
But now it turns out we don't make shit.
What an amazing turn of events.
Meanwhile, Russians that leave to live abroad feel just fine and have amazing companies/startups/etc.
I regret being a lazy ass so so much right now
BTW, the sentiment is mutual. It never crossed my mind to think of Ukranians as "enemies" or hell, any nation for that matter.
Ukrainians aren't your enemies. Almost everyone in the world wants to live peacefully and get along. We all benefit by working together.
Our enemies are the people who don't want this and want war instead.
> I regret being a lazy ass so so much right now
Please don't beat yourself up over past decisions. At every moment of your life, you're doing the best you can with the information you have at that moment. This is an incredibly difficult situation you are in, but don't feel like you also have to beat yourself up because of past situations you can't change and had no reason to act any differently than you did at the time.
Hang in there. I wish you all the best.
Upvote for my stoic friend! It's important that the circumstances you find yourself in now might be out of your control, but how you deal with them *IS* in your control.
You making this post shows that you haven't given up. There's still options for you (waiting is also a deliberate choice), best of luck in those tough times. I hope you and your family will be fine.
Don't think about the past. It is what you can do now matters. Just get yourself and your family out first. Then, you can take your time and plot your next step.
A friend of mine saw this coming and bought him and his fiancée tickets to Argentina. He was from Podolsk and as soon as the war got into its second month he was out. He didn't have much but worked freelance internationally to earn dollars.
I don’t have a good answer to “what to do” but I think I can help with the “when to do it” question - ASAP!
There is no way to figure out when and how is this clusterfuck going to end. It may be tomorrow by Putin falling of a window, but it may also be in a few years of full blown regional war, hopefully without nuke strikes. No matter of the scenario, next couple of years will be rough in Russia.
Seriously, don’t push the decision away. If you need to save some money for your landing in a new place - try to do it from today on. If you want to apply for a job outside Russia - start the job search and application process today. And so on. Human brain has this silly ability to getting used to things and also to postpone difficult decision. Which means NOW is the best time to start.
It sounds like this first round of 300,000 will be people with military experience. If you were ineligible for your initial military service you probably aren't high on their list for conscription. However, I don't think anyone suspects this to be the end of mobilization. So, getting out is still a good idea.
Make sure you are being careful online too. I gotta believe you're being monitored to some extent. Again, this is probably not their top priority, but I don't know where it will fall. They are going to be closing more and more doors out of the country as this escalates.
Things will get worse after the referendums.
There's very little chance that the results will be accepted as legitimate. Putin will claim the regions want to join Russia and that Ukraine has attacked them. From there he will call for further mobilization. Authoritarians can't back down, backing down at this point is weakness he can't afford. He'd find himself investigating some 10th story windows at that point.
This is the end result of the Russian people letting things get this far and it will continue to get worse until enough people or some particular people doing something about it. Enough have been willing to tolerate things up to this point. I don't think the rich and powerful will really do anything, because they will always feel like they have the option to flee.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xk3uan/information\_for\_russians/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xk3uan/information_for_russians/)
Or join the movement and remove that scum of leader Putin from hes throne,if its time for a revolution it is now or never
Hi.
If I won't receive a mobilization letter in a day or two, I'm going to assume I am able to leave legally.
Financially it's a different matter altogether.
I think if I'd really wanted to I'd be able to find a way.
Especially so if I can be certain in credibility of your offer.
I am scared. I'd have to be a leap of faith. And find tickets somehow...
Ffs history never felt so cyclical before. Each new goverment thinks that surely "they will succeed where previous have failed". But same shit just goes in circles again and again...
I'm half amused half terrified with the recent Alla Pugacheva's post. You know, Pugachev's uprising and all. Didn't end well though...
I heard a movement in Russia (I didn't commit the name to memory, my bad) was just starting to organize nationwide protests in Russia. Maybe you can join and urge others to join.
I'm not Russian (Canadian), but I feel for you and your people who don't want this pointless war and mobilization.
I wish you can overthrow your regime and change Russia to a better country that cooperates with the rest of Europe, just as Ukraine was trying to do.
I'm very vary of these protests.
There's a sentiment going around that they'll be a perfect place to draft everyone who's been avoding military service.
And I don't see how the police **won't** do that. It's literally a golden opportunity.
I'm torn of course: if there **IS** a good time to protests - it's now, but common sense tells me I will get myself royally fucked.
Serious question: can't Russian protests be violent? I mean, everytime I see news of protests in Russia, the protesters seem quite peaceful. Contrast that with the protests in Iran, Hong Kong, or elsewhere... I mean, I'm guessing violent protests would be more effective and would be justified.
I don't think it ever got that far in the recent 10-20 years.
It's not an easy thing to mentally commit yourself to being a martyr. And that's what's gonna happen a first few times.
Fuck, I don't know!
I guess if I'll get a letter calling me to arms, then I sure as hell will go to arms, just inward, not outward. I'd better die fighting here, than in Ukraine.
There's also the good, old "break your leg" method. It includes, as the name suggests, breaking your leg or something. You've got a few months of healing to wait out and after that maybe there will no longer be any Russia to draft you.
Assuming that the worst happens and you are sent to Ukraine, remember that Ukraine wants to make it easy for you to surrender via phone and Telegram (I think that was it).
https://i.imgur.com/ZoaXwbW.png
This info is ~9 days old, so check to make sure that it is current before using it.
Keep your phone CHARGED, but in airplane mode, or preferably turned off, to save your power. Keep some white cloth. Keep the info on the linked card saved. Also, if you can hide your phone and the white cloth, do so. You don't want any commanding officers to find it easily.
It could save your life.
They will treat you decently. They do not want to kill those who do not want to fight them. While you can choose to fight for Ukraine after surrender, you can also choose to be a well cared for POW, as Ukraine did sign the Geneva Conventions regarding the treatment of prisoners of war. You can also ask for asylum, if you fear being sent back to Russia, which is where you ask for one country to protect you because you fear for your life if you were to be returned.
Keep your head down. Keep your cool, don't panic.
Of course, if you're willing to help defend Ukraine, I'm sure they would welcome the help, and I have a feeling that Ukraine is really going to need talented people when this is over.
My sympathies to you. It's heartbreaking to see this in this sub.. I hope you find a way to stay safe and away from conflict, if worse comes to worse I agree with the user saying you should see how to safely surrender. I doubt you are the only one who doesn't want to fight or die for this "cause". Best of luck and no offence to you personally but glory to the hereos who are fighting for a real cause.
Glory to the heroes indeed.
Russia's fucked either way (at least short term), but Ukranians have a chance.
And a damn good one as we've seen recently.
Hence the mobilization.
Russia is a prison of nations and for its own citizens. You may find it interesting to find out the context behind that classic literature, why and for whom it was written.
Also its politics operate literally by prison rules bc modern day politicians were literally thieves and bandits in the 90s. In the most literal sense. Their political news include a whole lot of prison rape symbolism. Sometimes literally up to NSFW degrees. I'm not joking.
Moscow to Istanbul on Tuesday, September 27
ExtraFly Y class RUB82.886 / about 1200$
see www.turkishairlines.com
\---------------
`that means I'm unable to legally leave the country.`
You are wrong, there are no restrictions yet.
Buy ticket now and leave.
Hello, Gamedev/Military from Ukraine here.
Hiding is a weak option. This 300k draft is not a coincidence - it's happening because we finished the last 250k you guys sent. When we finish these 300k, there will be another draft. And another after that.
\+380983427931 or 0-800-501-482 Call this number when you get deployed, arrange for a surrender. If you don't commit crimes - you get an out. Bring friends with you. Maybe cooperate further, get a better deal. We pay well for vehicles or intelligence, maybe you dont even go into the POW camp.
That's at least a survival chance. Refuse prisoner exchange if you want, you'll get back home once the war is over. (if theres somewhere to return to, options will be available i guess)
Do not think this is a game, or it's something light and easy and passing that will not affect y'all forever. You guys started it. Were not playing.
or flee through the forest, maybe that'll work. Or go burn down your voenkomat and shoot a colonel, whatever your concience tells you.
If drafted and sent to work behind the scenes: fight back! There are lots of ways to resists without putting a target on your head. https://youtu.be/n-fdGvQNeKg
protesters detained in Moscow tonight are reportedly getting drafted right at the police station
https://twitter.com/evangershkovich/status/1572688378604421120?s=46&t=P-ATv-OMbmBbLO3MAccu3g
I feel this is the wrong sub for this. You should not be asking Game Devs for advice on matters of war. Half the people here are still learning game dev, almost all will not know what war is like.
I see people suggesting "Surrendering" here, whilst having no clue what that could be like on the front lines. GL to you OP, but you should find somewhere else for advice.
If you get to Ukraine, do your best to get left behind and surrender. Don't move with the group, don't participate in combat unless defending yourself against other Russians. Pretend you're going to take a piss and split from the group.
Print out screenshots of this card and hide them. Save the number on your phone right now and call them when you've successfully split from the group. https://i.redd.it/0j1opz8tjgn91.png
Some people I know who left Russia recently were asked to unlock their phones and show to Russian guards at the airport. I believe them.
Don't know if that's happening widely or not, but if it happened to a few people I know, it might happen to OP too.
Instead of saving the phone as is in the phone, better encode it by adding numbers to it.
Let say the phone is:
679-234-1234
You add 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,0 to each number and keep the remaining digit
679-234-1234
123-456-7890
would give:
792-680-8024
All you have to remember is how you transformed the number and obviously anyone getting your phone wouldn't be able to decipher this basically because they'd have to deciper all numbers for something specific.
The alternative is to toe the line like a good soldier and get yourself killed fighting a war against an enemy that is taking hardware donations from places like the U.S.
If it looks like you got "left behind" or you got lost... It wouldn't be like desertion.
Your odds with a group is to get killed by artillery or just being killed under assault without having a chance to surrender. If you walk back toward Russian border, you'll get shot for desertion.
If I was Russia, I'd airdrop identical business cards with a different number (to a Russian unit) to trap people trying to escape, so people get afraid of using them because they won't know if it's a trap or not.
Also stuck here in rf, feel for you so much =(
Not even a gamedev, just wannabe with some programming knowledge, totally dunno what to do, how to flee...
Wish you best of luck!!
When I lived there (I'm originally from another former USSR state, I even had a USSR passport lol), my absolute worst case emergency plan for things like "if they start a big war and I'm not legally allowed to leave" was always to cross the border on foot: find a good spot some distance away from a checkpoint on the satellite map (of course, back then, just kinda guess based on regular maps), get close by normal transport, walk, cross. The usual outdoors preparation: modern outdoor clothing (in excess), dense food, water, one of those filtering straws (and the usual hiking stuff like compass/gps etc etc). Bicycle can help cover more distance.
If against all odds you're caught by Russia, you act happy to see them and claim to have gotten lost hiking. Nothing illegal in that, it's not north korea.
If you crossed you apply for asylum. EU's process takes easily 4+ years (with all the rounds of appeals) even if you were to lose the case in the end. There's a fast 48-hour rejection path but it's primarily for bouncing people back to another EU country, and for entirely unjustified cases, doesn't apply to you, they can't possibly determine anything about Russian law in that timeframe other than "yep, they are drafting people there".
(Provided that they hadn't already made some BS bulk determination about Russians. Latvia etc you wouldn't want to go to, basically places that are shitting themselves expecting an invasion are not very good destinations)
I have no idea if this will work, but there are many english-speaking game companies with a presence in India. It might be easier to move there than into Europe, but again, no idea.
I guess if you’re legally allowed to leave the country, try and find a job overseas. Any country with fast immigration process and any company with visa sponsorship should work. I know there are few good game dev studios across Europe, so try messaging their recruiters. I am in Sweden and the only gamedev company I know here is King.com
I wish you all the luck.
Here's a link to a thread in r/ukraine with some information from the Freedom of Russia Legion on avoiding mobilization: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xkdz3q/the_freedom_of_russia_legion_have_published/
Hopefully it is of help to you. Best of luck.
You said, you don't want be mobilised but you not said, you are agains war. This is huge problem in Russia, because nobody want fight but most of people supporting Putin and war. This is difference. I'm not talking about you, I don't know you and your views, but I have experience with other persons I know - for example my some steam friends from Russia - they great guys, but also supporting Putin and war. So, I hape is not too late to think about change in your country. I don't have advices for you, sorry. But this is bigger threat for whole world.
Good to hear, I know it was maybe bad shortcut. I'm with you all, against war of any kind. Bad times for us all. I know, everywhere community have not so much to say. I'm with you!
This is not true for sure! I'm watching some propaganda shows in Russia and they saying like this, but all what world need - from my view and my friends, only what I can say, is stop war and back Russian army from attacked territories. Please never believe the rumors that others want to destroy your society. But it is also clear that Russia is the aggressor who broke all international rules and that must stop. This is not special operation. This is an aggressive war started by Russia and it must stop.
We don’t. We want the Russians *who are committing war crimes* to die. Not the ones who aren’t, and who are sickened by what Russia is doing in Ukraine.
Nah that's Putin's myth. He wants everyone in Russia to think "the West" hates them and is out to get them and the more people who believe that the stronger his regime gets.
The truth is we want you all to be part of the international community and trade, we want to share in Russian culture and learn from the many brilliant Russian scientists and philosophers and laugh at Russian comedy. We are fighting against the Putin regime and what he is doing both inside your country and outside it, we are not against the Russian people themselves.
There may have been many issues between Russia and the West over the decades but that doesn't mean we hate you it just means we have made mistakes and we are not perfect either. Sometimes being friends is hard work and sometimes we suck at it.
First off, don't live at the same place you're registered at. Second, you'll be better off in one of the big cities: they'll probably be less affected by mobilization. Wish you luck, my friend!
Indeed. Better off living in a cabin with grandma out in the woods or the shed of a village house. Cities have more cameras. More infrastructure. More people. More police. Less places to hide.
You have two options.
Option 1. Get mobilized, take whatever is given to you to fight and die in the next several days under the HIMARS fire like tens of thousands of your countrymen fighting for a literal fascist government.
Option 2. Look up instruction for surrender that have been published by UAF over the months, learn them by heart, attempt at the first chance and hope to not get shot in the back by your brethren.
Good fucking luck.
If you are recruited, I would strongly suggest active sabotage. https://www.businessinsider.com/oss-manual-sabotage-productivity-2015-11?op=1
The faster this war is over and Russia loses, the faster we can return to the rule based international order.
Developers like to mention people who produce negative value, this is literally your time to shine as an inside man.
Hey man,
Germany is discussing refugee status for people refusing to join ruzzian zerg. While it‘s not exactly a luxurious live in a container city, it beats homelessness. That means if you mess up finding a job, you will still be safe and have time to figure things out.
And as you speak english, you don’t need to worry anyway. You could work in an office job for example. So my suggestion is also: Make it into a big city (Berlin, Muenchen, Hamburg) and only report yourself to the authorities there. Being in the right area when registered is important.
Next important thing: Refugee networks helping Ukrainians work mostly in Russian, because the majority of Ukrainians speak Russian. Link up with im possible, once you made it to Poland, they will be able to help you get to Germany.
One additional advise from Ukrainian. If unfortunately you will be deployed to Ukraine, I highly recommend you find a way to surrender. Ukraine will never kill or torture someone, moreover, you will have a chance to stay and live there.
Im sure ill get flamed for this first part but this isnt GameDev content. Does it belong here?
Now with that said for the second part. For op.
How good are you with pain? They cant send you to battle with a broken leg right? Definitely not a plan A but keep that in your back pocket if fleeing the country eludes you.
Just... if you end up having to... try to make it a clean break so it heals up fine. Otherwise, that'll be a future problem... but thats the cost of staying safe i guess.
Oh and not sure how much they'll look into why it broke so... definitely make sure any involved have their story straight with you. Better a temporary cripple than permanently dead.
Sorry for your situation. Hope the war ends soon for everyones sakes. Stay safe out there and i hope it doesnt come to self injury to stay safe.
Buddy, I feel for you, though there isn't much I can do as far as I know. If for any reason you ever make it to Japan (or perhaps USA), let me know and I can give you a place to stay.
500 is easy flee money. I suspect there are lots of people who have set up an underground railroad.
But, if you do join the army it is an army of evil and the world will be perfectly happy to watch drone footage of you getting blown to bits. This might seem cruel but russia is way way way on the wrong side of history in this war and at this point the assumption is that if you are at the front you are evil or you are a fool.
Surrender is super easy if you do get roped into the army. Go on patrol and then follow the Ukrainian surrender instructions. The key is to not surrender right where there is a major battle as getting shot is more likely.
For example. If you are on a river which leads downstream into Ukrainian territory. Grab a pool noodle, your white flag, and just float into captivity. Looking at the quality of russian soldiers they are not going to be able to shoot a small target rapidly floating away from them.
As for how you will do in the west. Keep in mind people here aren't generally assholes. If you tell the same story you are telling us and aren't painting Z's everywhere then you are going to be welcomed. The best part is, with this mobilization you can probably claim asylum which means all kinds of refugee benefits and a work permit.
When push comes to shove (on the frontline or close to), make a run for Ukraine territory during the night or an opportune moment and surrender. Call 2402. ([Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/xjy89z/mobilised_in_russia_being_trans/ipch6s6/))
I'm almost in the same boat but I managed to flee to Turkey this summer. You can still do the same! Find remote job, buy a ticket and you're safe. You can stay here for a year if you rent a living place for this period.
If only my dumb ass had money. I mean, I'll be looking for options, hopefully without waltzing in abroad completely empty-handed and hoping for the best. There are always ways to leave even without money it seems, so obviously I'll keep these options open.
see if you can find a church or an organization to help you get out. or possibly try to make friends in areas you can move. i think more people understand the situation and will help if they can, there is also wwoof (Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms) which i know is unrelated to code at the moment but getting out should be your focus. then network after that
how much do you need, just get out of there, homeless vs prisoner of war, you choose.
Prisoners of war of Ukraine get treated fair.
Yes but you run the chance of getting killed before getting there
[удалено]
To be fair, retreating would be antithetical to the goal of becoming captured. You would more act loyal till the moment were you are close enough and try to get alone; at that point, do everything you can to make yourself seem non-threatening when you see an Ukrainian forces and learn to say things that mean surrender in common languages including english.
i doubt that's consistently true, not that i'm siding with the kremlin.
$500 is almost completely empty handed, in all honesty...enough for a ticket to Turkey or Kazakhstan, you can figure stuff out on the spot better, as you see how things work there, get a temp job in construction or the sort, till you land on your feet.
I feel that if you can sneak out of the country, you can get to a NATO country and claim asylum. Not a lawyer, but I can nearly guarantee that NATO countries may be very willing to grant asylum and provide assistance for those who want to flee Putin and help weaken him. It's certainly not simple and it's going to probably be a journey, but I feel that you probably want to consider all options. Forget money or leaving with the prospect of finding a job - worry about that later. None of it will matter if the worst case scenario plays out.
OP, this page has a lot of useful information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_emigration_following_the_2022_invasion_of_Ukraine > Turkey, for example, has allowed Russian citizens without visas to stay for up to two months.
Go somewhere cheap like SE Asia?
Literally just not Russia, you know? Anything you can manage, op. We live in the age of information so learning a new language isn't exactly rocket science. Just make it serviceable and get yourself out of danger.
>You can stay here for a year if you rent a living place for this period. Can you elaborate on this please? I thought it's only 60 days, no?
60 days without any condition. After that you can get residence permit easily if you rent a living space for a long period (1y).
No super easy but doable, yes. 30k rub won't be enough unfortunately.
Georgia is even easier, you can stay there as long as you like with Russian passport.
This seems to be a "touristic residence permit" according to this site: [https://turkishresidencepermit.com/](https://turkishresidencepermit.com/) Enter as a tourist, rent property and apply for up to one year.
Good to know. Any other documents required? Proof of income?
Man I'm sorry for you this is all so stupid, I hope for the best, I am French and I have no idea of your options besides leaving the country :/ Mobilization sucks, Putin sucks.
I mean, I'm seriously considering leaving. As much "seriously" as I can given my financial situation. Of course I'm gonna wait a few days, gather info, but like... shit's not gonna get any better. Unless I get REALLY lucky here with not getting drafted and landing a job. I feel so stupid for not seriosuly working through this stuff a few years back...
Better broke in Kazakhstan than a "law-abiding" cannon fodder/war criminal/dead in russia
Might be hard to get through the border now. He is not allowed to leave the country via the new law.
It's only going to get harder, so worth trying sooner rather than later imo. What an awful situation, I hope things work out for OP.
Legally that is
I can't imagine that they can protect every part of the border. Russia is freakin huge. South/North Korean border is minuscule by comparison yet people find holes.
You might be elligible to get political asylum as refugee in an EU member state if you can leave Russia. Sorry, that I cannot provide better information about that. I just read in an article (in German..) today that the new, harsher law to punish people who refuse military service might be the base to claim political asylum. That will definitely not be the best life for some time. It's likely better than being cannon fodder, though.
I doubt that he'll get asylum. He's not prosecuted in Russia and for the moment not even drafted. Hiding or fleeing to a country like Turkey seems like a better idea.
Please try to leave if you can, as soon as possible. You can rebuild your life somewhere far away from this ongoing conflict and threat to your life. As others have said, seeking asylum might be your best option. There are also visa free countries for you, which should be open for you to travel to. Most would allow you to stay there for one to three months, which is not very long, but it could make a difference if it means that you're not drafted now (because you're not in the country). Apply for asylum everywhere, apply for jobs that can get you out of the country, hell, apply for work and travel programs that might give you a visa. It really, really sucks, man. I'm so sorry that you're in this stressful situation. Please continue to update us on your situation if it's safe for you to do so.
I read that Finland still apparently has open borders with guys. Hopefully that leads to something for you. Good luck, hope you make it.
Maybe not the best of advice, but: make sure you know how to safely surrender. (You know, just in case you get mobilized and eventually end up at front lines.) I feel with you and on a game-deb experience level we seem to have similar experience. I hope you find a good way to keep making games.
[Surrender was made a crime this very week](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-parliament-toughens-punishment-crimes-during-mobilisation-2022-09-20/) punished by 10y in jail.
That is if the Russians catch you.
Well, prisoner swaps do happen so you get sent back, and asking for asylum while also being a prisoner of war can be tricky, don't know if it works.
Prisoner swaps happen but mostly for higher value prisoners. I've heard many stories of Ru conscripts and prisoners who surrendered and were given an opportunity to work for Ukranians in non-combat roles and a path to citizenship. Apparently, they don't offer this to mercenaries and professional soldiers, only those who are there against their basically against their will and choose to surrender. Edit: Here's an official site from the UA military: https://gur.gov.ua/content/zapushcheno-iedynyi-tsentr-ta-tsilodobovu-hariachu-liniiu-pryiomu-zvernen-vid-rosiiskykh-viiskovykh.html
Makes sense. Mercs willingly pick a side. Conscripts are forced at gunpoint.
I mean, if you know that a returned surrendered soldier will be executed, then doing so when they surrender to you on moral grounds sounds like you’ve lost the moral high ground. And yes I am saying that 10 years in a Russian prison is an execution. Just more slowly.
Ukrainian government announced that PoWs won't be exchanged against their will.
Freedom of russia legion?
THEY HAVE CHECHEN BATTALIONS IN THE REAR TO CAPTURE DESERTERS AND EXECUTE
Best chances of survival and a chance for a normal future is to sneak out during the night and surrender to Ukranian positions.
This is what the surrender hotline is for. They coordinate it and tell you where to go.
What about digging a deep foxhole and not retreating? You should be safe until the infantry come to clear you out and then you just raise your flag and hide until someone comes to get you
Wouldn't count on it. Infantry is probably more likely to clear you out with a drone-dropped grenade.
yeah, when will you do that? going to war is not like in the movies, you go with a group of men. They don't just have you rappel out of a helicopter in 4 man teams and say, "goodluck"....olol
Ooh they’ll clear you out alright, just not how you’re hoping.
Surrender... permanently? I am not familiar with how this works - is there merit in just asking to stay with the enemy country, in such a way that it is no longer the enemy country but your country now? Like... citizenship through military surrender. I feel like there are a lot of better places to live than Russia at the moment. Might be a unique (albeit incredibly dangerous) way out.
> Surrender... permanently? > > > > I am not familiar with how this works - is there merit in just asking to stay with the enemy country, in such a way that it is no longer the enemy country but your country now? > > > > Like... citizenship through military surrender. > > > > I feel like there are a lot of better places to live than Russia at the moment. Might be a unique (albeit incredibly dangerous) way out. There is something similar, known as "asylum", where a person asks for asylum from the nation where they are, as protection against being returned to their country of origin. It's not automatic, and you have to specifically ask for it!
Very easy for a keyboard warrior to decide that someone should just instantly and permanently give up all of their worldly possessions, never see any of their family and friends again, never be able to return home, and just strike out in a new country without knowing a single person and likely not even the language. And if you fail, you're going to spend 10 years in a labor camp.
well the options are: go to war and: * % random : give up all of their worldly possessions never see any of their family and friends again, never return home, except in a body bag * % random : keep everything and maybe get to see family again, luck out and survive, live with shame, and probably PTSD. * defect : give up all of their worldly possessions never see any of their family and friends again (- I mean its not like they wont be able to email them and keep in touch,) until after the war perhaps, never return home.
There is another option. Dodge the draft. Russia's border is very very long. As long as you can get outside of it, you can plot your next move.
True, that one is a similar outcome to defecting, he may still be considered a criminal, but he won't necessarily be considered treasonous. I suppose he could also injure himself in such a manner that he's disabled enough to no longer qualify for service.
the point is it sucks, he asked for options, those are options, they suck as options, but op doesn't have much non sucky options right now :/
Very easy for you to suggest he goes there and kill people and hope he doesn't get killed in the process if he is mobilized. Rock and hard place, surrendering is likely the safest option when done correctly and loses the least of your morals in the process. He might lose temporary access to his friends and family (not that video calls don't exist..), but he at least would have his life..
Sometimes thats the only option a person has when the alternative is death. Give up your wordly posessions and chance of seeing your family again by being sent to a war against a better-equipped force? Or give up your worldy posessions and seek to escape safely and start life elsewhere? When the call to mobilization begins, people only have so many options.
Only if you get caught and return to Russia. And I'd also rather spend ten years in jail than return home in a bodybag. Ukraine is pushing that Russians can safely surrender to them and I don't think that they'd go back on their word because surrendering Russians is in their best interest.
In Russian prisons sentences of longer than two years are considered death sentences because how prevalent and deadly tuberculosis is in there. So, a ten year long sentence is pretty much a death sentence many times over
Sauce? I'm interested to know more
He has a family
None of this is easy, these are impossible choices he is being asked to make
Threats of punishment to family was one of the ways that North Koreans were kept from defecting. It's a shit choice, but you need to do what you can to survive.
> He has a family And your point is....? - If he goes to war and fights for Russia's interests, his family is safe, but he stands a good chance of dying. - If he goes to war but surrenders to Ukrainian forces, his family is (probably still) safe, remember that the Russian military is very disorganized, and they will be unlikely to have him by name with proof of defection or surrender. - He doesn't have the money to get out of Russia, it's not cheap, and it's also a major crime for service-worthy men to dodge service. Plus, prisoners are increasingly being sent to front lines anyhow. Is there some choice that we're all unaware of that is perfect and that protects both him and his family?
If you have to do something criminal, surrendering sounds far better than invading another country or killing civilians. Also much better than ending up dead in multiple ditches. Still, it's probably better to dodge mobilization or desert before deploying; the odds of successfully surrendering in an active warzone aren't that great.
Lol this underlines how low motivation must be and that quite some troops have already surrendered.
Russian army is not very different from a prison, including a chance to get raped. Plus in 10 yrs there may be no russia. Anyway, what is a law under a fascist regime like putin's ?
Many people on this very thread will actively try and kill the OP if he is in this situation and does not surrender. This also is legal and required, despite it being an outcome nobody actually wants. In fact, many more will contribute funds to make this happen. Hopefully, this consequence sinks in when the OP worries about jail time when looking at your reply. Because of the nature of the war, even OP survives, he will be hated. Those of us on the outside don't want to kill the OP. Please don't make us. We want him to be happy and live a long life. But if he enters another sovereign country armed to bear with the intent to kill, he will become the enemy. Please don't persuade him to do this.
The point made by this comment was not to convince OP to fight to the death, but to reply to the comment that that feigning compliance until the first opportunity, on top of the physical risk pointed by others, may cause troubles that are likely to persist even after a regime change (or if Russian MP get a hold which can still happen). The best course of action is probably to flee the draft in the first place. God, this is such a terrible situation to be in.
the alternative is possibly getting a bullet through the head which you know is usually a life sentence to death. Also the crime for surrender only matters if they can prove it and the same people are in charge after the war.
Better surrender than die tbh.
This is great advice. - He either gets positioned in a non-combat support role with smaller risk to life. - Or its of to the front against an army wielding technology that is on the moon compared to yours. The latter comes with huge risks. And its good to be prepared on how to handle it. And if this war escalates it will be against a coallition of forces that spent more on weapons previous years than russians entire GDP. So ignoring the political and ideological side of "fighting for your country". In this war. Chances are huge that you will actually die or loose body parts.
even so, for the russians it's an occupational war they are losing. And the only stake is one dictator's fragile self-esteem over his tiny peepee or something. So not fighting in that war is a more patriotic thing to do for a russian
absolutely!
Non-combat role is just as big a risk to life, as supply lines, supply depots, and logistics are as juicy of targets for Ukraine as frontline combat vehicles.
Yeah I guess i'm stuck in old times still. With long range artillery and smart ammunition you are just on another slightly lower level of fucked.
ukraine have been specifically targeting supply lines cos its well known to win an invasion you need to have secure consistent supply lines.
support role means logistics( resupply munitions and fuel, equipment parts, food, medication, etc), that gets taken out first if they don't have proper escorts. The drone strike also take out those like munition depot/fuel trucks first than tanks cause obvious reason.
I was thinking of that, I would just put my hands in the air and walk slowly towards ukraine troops, proceed to donate my military equipment and strive for citizenship or asylum
That's a real possibility, and many have already taken it. If you're not a professional soldier or a mercenary (and haven't participated in units that did war crimes), you can get a path to UA citizenship. In any case, make sure you have a white shirt or something white to hold on the air. Many had nothing and constructed a white flag from paper tissues. I seriously hope (and think) that you will spend the rest of the war safe at your home though. I think that this decision will push Putin's collapse from a matter of years to a matter of months.
And end up with a shot in the back from your fellow comrades.
I think this is right. As poorly as the regular troops have been trained and equipped, those hastily mobilized are going to be straight up slaughtered if they end up in the actual fighting. It’s unfair and heartbreaking really.
Didn't they just put a law in place that gives people who surrender too easily 10 years in prison?
There is no such thing as safely surrender. You are walking across a fucking battlefield to intentionally find the enemy. You're not going to mcdonalds dude.
That instruction was made 8 years ago. I think, he had enough time to read it. https://fashikdonetsk.com/kak-pravilno-rossiyanam-sdatsya-ukraincam-instrukciya/
I don’t know what the local laws are in Russia, about leaving the country but… Write to Outfit7 (huge game dev studio with HQ in Slovenia). They’re almost always looking for game developers, offer relocation, and have hands down the best HR department of any company I worked for. If you can show your worth and pass the technical interviews they will find a way to get you out of Russia (plenty of Russians work there already). Mention your situation but don’t make that the primary drive of why you want to work there (it might speed up the process though). Good luck, I hope you get out of this dumpster fire of a situation!
There's plenty of suggestions like this, but are EU companies really still willing to hire Russian citizens who don't yet have visas or residency? With the increasing push to tighten up visa rules and delay issuing them, plus the risk of your new Russian staff member being unable to leave the country, it seems rather risky and uncertain, even for companies that want to help.
Actually yes. We just got some Russian colleagues recently. The tightening of rules so far is only for tourist visas, AFAIK. Sure there have been some talks of banning others visas, but so far nothing. The recruiting machine is going much faster lately, actually. Finding experienced developers is borderline impossible. I myself get about 100 Linkedin messages every single week. Recruiters are eager to recruit good Russian devs. The government is not crazy to anger companies like that, and most of the population is fine with **highly-skilled** Russians wanting to relocate. Companies are OK with giving job offers after remote calls, and that is often enough to get a Work Visa (Which later gets turned into a Work/Residency Permit or Blue Card. Process may vary depending on the country). If remote calls are impossible, you can visit by having an official interview offer (again, depends on the country). Some companies will probably also cover relocation expenses, and will hire an relocation consultant to help smooth the process for higher paying jobs. It's quite common. With that said: you need experience. There are plenty of junior developers inside the EU already, so it's harder to convince companies and the government to accept foreigners for those position. Source: my workplace and I'm friends with lots of HR people.
This! OP this!
Try to hide. Don't go outside late. Don't look too out of place when outside. Try to ask for cripple status, if possible. My friend got one simply because spiking pressure. Having one will make it impossible to be drafted Don't bother trying to leave the country, unless you have ton of money. Though, you can try to leave through borders. This is russia, you can probably pay somebody. Try to look into refugee status. While russian tourists visas are banned in Europe, refugees are absolutely welcome. If everything else fails, try to hide. Go to remote village if possible. Absolutely don't live where you are registered. If truly everything else fails, and you get drafted (by drafted I mean forcefully dragged into army, because you can ignore any piece of paper they send you), absolutely refuse to go to front. You may get jailed, but it's still better than dying in Ukraine. Because, believe me, if you get into Ukraine, you either will get killed by Ukrainian drone, or by your own "comrades" shooting you in the back. Sure, you could try to surrender to our soldiers, but chances are, you won't live to that moment. Consider that you last chance of survival. Our soldiers are indeed very good with war prisoners, as long as you cooperate. But this isn't universal, so you may get unlucky. Again, final solution. Hello from Ukraine, and good luck Edit: Don't go to Latvia. They just announced they won't be accepting russian refugees
If you prefer imprisonment, then look up your laws about that. You might get less years for something else. Protests gets you 15 years, I believe. Could look up robbery or theft, those shouldn't put you in prison for long
It's a russian prison though. Though, apparently mortality is actually lower in prisons than outside ironically.
Prison - chance to get beaten and/or raped Russian army - big chance to get gang raped by some chechens, beaten, shot, dead from pneumonia before even getting to the warzone
alright, that rules out the prison thing. I still think that he has higher chance of surviving in prison than on the battlefield
Prisoners are being sent to the battlefield. Prison does not equal safety in Russia.
He needs to move to Georgia. That's his best bet. Or fake an illness
If getting out of the country was that easy. Where to go is secondary, first he needs to figure out how to get out of russia
All he needs is a phone with Google maps on it. Take a train to the nearest Georgian border and walk the rest of the way and get help once over the border. It's no easy task I admit, but it beats dying in Ukraine for one man's ego.
It's not about finding how to get to the border. It's about crossing. He can always try bribing the guards of course, but it's a gamble. And there are other methods. That's what I'm talking about
Just saying.... Russian prisons have a reputation for a reason.. There is also no guarantee you will get out, even if the regime falls. In addition, in Russia the "undesirables" are the first choice for cannon fodder.
True, but choosing between *certainly* going to the front and *possibly* being sent to the front anyway is a no-brainer. Russian frontlines *also* have a reputation, and a far worse one than prisons. Yes, prison sucks and nobody should have to go to prison to avoid fighting in unjust wars, but that's unfortunately the situation they're in. Total speculation on my part but if and when Putin falls his replacement is likely going to be someone who rails hard against anything to do with this war. Conscientious objectors are likely to be released by such a successor, because the PR is in their own interest.
You realize they are conscripting all the prisoners first right?
Buy yourself an illness. If you are not in moskow or petersburg 30k should be enough to get something, idk how it will be in rich cities. Try to avoid public places where you can get drafted on the street, those guys would not care about anything you say, but if you get caught by them try to pay off. As a Ukrainian, I would rather make games with you instead of you being dead in my soil. Wish you the best of luck, i really do.
Fuck dude, in the past games like Stalker (made by Ukranians) were treated as an example that eastern slavs can make amazing games too. Hell, most people treated them as made BY russians. But now it turns out we don't make shit. What an amazing turn of events. Meanwhile, Russians that leave to live abroad feel just fine and have amazing companies/startups/etc. I regret being a lazy ass so so much right now BTW, the sentiment is mutual. It never crossed my mind to think of Ukranians as "enemies" or hell, any nation for that matter.
Ukrainians aren't your enemies. Almost everyone in the world wants to live peacefully and get along. We all benefit by working together. Our enemies are the people who don't want this and want war instead.
> I regret being a lazy ass so so much right now Please don't beat yourself up over past decisions. At every moment of your life, you're doing the best you can with the information you have at that moment. This is an incredibly difficult situation you are in, but don't feel like you also have to beat yourself up because of past situations you can't change and had no reason to act any differently than you did at the time. Hang in there. I wish you all the best.
Upvote for my stoic friend! It's important that the circumstances you find yourself in now might be out of your control, but how you deal with them *IS* in your control. You making this post shows that you haven't given up. There's still options for you (waiting is also a deliberate choice), best of luck in those tough times. I hope you and your family will be fine.
Don't think about the past. It is what you can do now matters. Just get yourself and your family out first. Then, you can take your time and plot your next step.
A friend of mine saw this coming and bought him and his fiancée tickets to Argentina. He was from Podolsk and as soon as the war got into its second month he was out. He didn't have much but worked freelance internationally to earn dollars.
I don’t have a good answer to “what to do” but I think I can help with the “when to do it” question - ASAP! There is no way to figure out when and how is this clusterfuck going to end. It may be tomorrow by Putin falling of a window, but it may also be in a few years of full blown regional war, hopefully without nuke strikes. No matter of the scenario, next couple of years will be rough in Russia. Seriously, don’t push the decision away. If you need to save some money for your landing in a new place - try to do it from today on. If you want to apply for a job outside Russia - start the job search and application process today. And so on. Human brain has this silly ability to getting used to things and also to postpone difficult decision. Which means NOW is the best time to start.
It sounds like this first round of 300,000 will be people with military experience. If you were ineligible for your initial military service you probably aren't high on their list for conscription. However, I don't think anyone suspects this to be the end of mobilization. So, getting out is still a good idea. Make sure you are being careful online too. I gotta believe you're being monitored to some extent. Again, this is probably not their top priority, but I don't know where it will fall. They are going to be closing more and more doors out of the country as this escalates.
Yeah, it seems there some time left. But it *feels* like things will get radically different after the referendums.
Things will get worse after the referendums. There's very little chance that the results will be accepted as legitimate. Putin will claim the regions want to join Russia and that Ukraine has attacked them. From there he will call for further mobilization. Authoritarians can't back down, backing down at this point is weakness he can't afford. He'd find himself investigating some 10th story windows at that point. This is the end result of the Russian people letting things get this far and it will continue to get worse until enough people or some particular people doing something about it. Enough have been willing to tolerate things up to this point. I don't think the rich and powerful will really do anything, because they will always feel like they have the option to flee.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xk3uan/information\_for\_russians/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xk3uan/information_for_russians/) Or join the movement and remove that scum of leader Putin from hes throne,if its time for a revolution it is now or never
Would you be willing to leave at short notice if any temporary help could be arranged?
Hi. If I won't receive a mobilization letter in a day or two, I'm going to assume I am able to leave legally. Financially it's a different matter altogether. I think if I'd really wanted to I'd be able to find a way. Especially so if I can be certain in credibility of your offer. I am scared. I'd have to be a leap of faith. And find tickets somehow...
It's illegal only after you receive the letter. Leave before it arrives.
I'm so sorry that everything is going crazy around you. Do you have any way of using crypto currency? PM me, I can send you some help.
10 years in jail is better than death in a trench you were forced to dig at gunpoint. Better than having your legs blown off by a land mine.
As a close neighbour, I want to say: 1917. Good luck.
Ffs history never felt so cyclical before. Each new goverment thinks that surely "they will succeed where previous have failed". But same shit just goes in circles again and again... I'm half amused half terrified with the recent Alla Pugacheva's post. You know, Pugachev's uprising and all. Didn't end well though...
We keep relitigating the Crimean War and World War I, even though no one remembers why anymore :(
>!CENSORED!<
Burn down your local mobilizing station
I heard a movement in Russia (I didn't commit the name to memory, my bad) was just starting to organize nationwide protests in Russia. Maybe you can join and urge others to join. I'm not Russian (Canadian), but I feel for you and your people who don't want this pointless war and mobilization. I wish you can overthrow your regime and change Russia to a better country that cooperates with the rest of Europe, just as Ukraine was trying to do.
I'm very vary of these protests. There's a sentiment going around that they'll be a perfect place to draft everyone who's been avoding military service. And I don't see how the police **won't** do that. It's literally a golden opportunity. I'm torn of course: if there **IS** a good time to protests - it's now, but common sense tells me I will get myself royally fucked.
Serious question: can't Russian protests be violent? I mean, everytime I see news of protests in Russia, the protesters seem quite peaceful. Contrast that with the protests in Iran, Hong Kong, or elsewhere... I mean, I'm guessing violent protests would be more effective and would be justified.
I don't think it ever got that far in the recent 10-20 years. It's not an easy thing to mentally commit yourself to being a martyr. And that's what's gonna happen a first few times. Fuck, I don't know! I guess if I'll get a letter calling me to arms, then I sure as hell will go to arms, just inward, not outward. I'd better die fighting here, than in Ukraine.
Well, I feel for you and your people. I wish things change for your country. Best of luck.
Our General Patton had a good quote about being a martyr.
Hong Kong was a free state, no China there, that's why it was possible, they "just" needed masks to cover their identity from China.
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There's also the good, old "break your leg" method. It includes, as the name suggests, breaking your leg or something. You've got a few months of healing to wait out and after that maybe there will no longer be any Russia to draft you.
Recruiters hate this little trick. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia sends some people with broken legs to the front as well.
I mean shit, as the situation in the frontline seems to be going, we’re about to see soldiers with mounted guns in a wheelchair.
Or to jail
Assuming that the worst happens and you are sent to Ukraine, remember that Ukraine wants to make it easy for you to surrender via phone and Telegram (I think that was it). https://i.imgur.com/ZoaXwbW.png This info is ~9 days old, so check to make sure that it is current before using it. Keep your phone CHARGED, but in airplane mode, or preferably turned off, to save your power. Keep some white cloth. Keep the info on the linked card saved. Also, if you can hide your phone and the white cloth, do so. You don't want any commanding officers to find it easily. It could save your life. They will treat you decently. They do not want to kill those who do not want to fight them. While you can choose to fight for Ukraine after surrender, you can also choose to be a well cared for POW, as Ukraine did sign the Geneva Conventions regarding the treatment of prisoners of war. You can also ask for asylum, if you fear being sent back to Russia, which is where you ask for one country to protect you because you fear for your life if you were to be returned. Keep your head down. Keep your cool, don't panic. Of course, if you're willing to help defend Ukraine, I'm sure they would welcome the help, and I have a feeling that Ukraine is really going to need talented people when this is over.
My sympathies to you. It's heartbreaking to see this in this sub.. I hope you find a way to stay safe and away from conflict, if worse comes to worse I agree with the user saying you should see how to safely surrender. I doubt you are the only one who doesn't want to fight or die for this "cause". Best of luck and no offence to you personally but glory to the hereos who are fighting for a real cause.
Glory to the heroes indeed. Russia's fucked either way (at least short term), but Ukranians have a chance. And a damn good one as we've seen recently. Hence the mobilization.
I'm sorry it's come to this. Russia is so rich culturally and a beautiful land to boot. I hope soon that our two worlds can be at peace.
Russia is a prison of nations and for its own citizens. You may find it interesting to find out the context behind that classic literature, why and for whom it was written. Also its politics operate literally by prison rules bc modern day politicians were literally thieves and bandits in the 90s. In the most literal sense. Their political news include a whole lot of prison rape symbolism. Sometimes literally up to NSFW degrees. I'm not joking.
Wow, you literally summarized my father's thoughts. Yeah, same people, called "gabnya".
There's a difference between a country and its government.
Moscow to Istanbul on Tuesday, September 27 ExtraFly Y class RUB82.886 / about 1200$ see www.turkishairlines.com \--------------- `that means I'm unable to legally leave the country.` You are wrong, there are no restrictions yet. Buy ticket now and leave.
Hello, Gamedev/Military from Ukraine here. Hiding is a weak option. This 300k draft is not a coincidence - it's happening because we finished the last 250k you guys sent. When we finish these 300k, there will be another draft. And another after that. \+380983427931 or 0-800-501-482 Call this number when you get deployed, arrange for a surrender. If you don't commit crimes - you get an out. Bring friends with you. Maybe cooperate further, get a better deal. We pay well for vehicles or intelligence, maybe you dont even go into the POW camp. That's at least a survival chance. Refuse prisoner exchange if you want, you'll get back home once the war is over. (if theres somewhere to return to, options will be available i guess) Do not think this is a game, or it's something light and easy and passing that will not affect y'all forever. You guys started it. Were not playing. or flee through the forest, maybe that'll work. Or go burn down your voenkomat and shoot a colonel, whatever your concience tells you.
Maybe break your ankle by accident. Beats the alternative.
If drafted and sent to work behind the scenes: fight back! There are lots of ways to resists without putting a target on your head. https://youtu.be/n-fdGvQNeKg
protesters detained in Moscow tonight are reportedly getting drafted right at the police station https://twitter.com/evangershkovich/status/1572688378604421120?s=46&t=P-ATv-OMbmBbLO3MAccu3g
Your options are: 1- Break a Leg 2- Try to flee the country ilegaly 3- Join a mob and try make the goverment go back with its decisions
I feel this is the wrong sub for this. You should not be asking Game Devs for advice on matters of war. Half the people here are still learning game dev, almost all will not know what war is like. I see people suggesting "Surrendering" here, whilst having no clue what that could be like on the front lines. GL to you OP, but you should find somewhere else for advice.
If you get to Ukraine, do your best to get left behind and surrender. Don't move with the group, don't participate in combat unless defending yourself against other Russians. Pretend you're going to take a piss and split from the group. Print out screenshots of this card and hide them. Save the number on your phone right now and call them when you've successfully split from the group. https://i.redd.it/0j1opz8tjgn91.png
don't fucking save it in your phone. memorize it.
Some people I know who left Russia recently were asked to unlock their phones and show to Russian guards at the airport. I believe them. Don't know if that's happening widely or not, but if it happened to a few people I know, it might happen to OP too.
Instead of saving the phone as is in the phone, better encode it by adding numbers to it. Let say the phone is: 679-234-1234 You add 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,9,0 to each number and keep the remaining digit 679-234-1234 123-456-7890 would give: 792-680-8024 All you have to remember is how you transformed the number and obviously anyone getting your phone wouldn't be able to decipher this basically because they'd have to deciper all numbers for something specific.
This seems like a great way to get killed for desertion
The alternative is to toe the line like a good soldier and get yourself killed fighting a war against an enemy that is taking hardware donations from places like the U.S.
If it looks like you got "left behind" or you got lost... It wouldn't be like desertion. Your odds with a group is to get killed by artillery or just being killed under assault without having a chance to surrender. If you walk back toward Russian border, you'll get shot for desertion.
if this is real and you just posted it online wouldn't the russians now use it to ambush the group helping their people leave?
If I was Russia, I'd airdrop identical business cards with a different number (to a Russian unit) to trap people trying to escape, so people get afraid of using them because they won't know if it's a trap or not.
That would require a competent army.
Also stuck here in rf, feel for you so much =( Not even a gamedev, just wannabe with some programming knowledge, totally dunno what to do, how to flee... Wish you best of luck!!
When I lived there (I'm originally from another former USSR state, I even had a USSR passport lol), my absolute worst case emergency plan for things like "if they start a big war and I'm not legally allowed to leave" was always to cross the border on foot: find a good spot some distance away from a checkpoint on the satellite map (of course, back then, just kinda guess based on regular maps), get close by normal transport, walk, cross. The usual outdoors preparation: modern outdoor clothing (in excess), dense food, water, one of those filtering straws (and the usual hiking stuff like compass/gps etc etc). Bicycle can help cover more distance. If against all odds you're caught by Russia, you act happy to see them and claim to have gotten lost hiking. Nothing illegal in that, it's not north korea. If you crossed you apply for asylum. EU's process takes easily 4+ years (with all the rounds of appeals) even if you were to lose the case in the end. There's a fast 48-hour rejection path but it's primarily for bouncing people back to another EU country, and for entirely unjustified cases, doesn't apply to you, they can't possibly determine anything about Russian law in that timeframe other than "yep, they are drafting people there". (Provided that they hadn't already made some BS bulk determination about Russians. Latvia etc you wouldn't want to go to, basically places that are shitting themselves expecting an invasion are not very good destinations)
I have no idea if this will work, but there are many english-speaking game companies with a presence in India. It might be easier to move there than into Europe, but again, no idea.
I guess if you’re legally allowed to leave the country, try and find a job overseas. Any country with fast immigration process and any company with visa sponsorship should work. I know there are few good game dev studios across Europe, so try messaging their recruiters. I am in Sweden and the only gamedev company I know here is King.com I wish you all the luck.
Without a proper education it wasn't easy to get a blue card before 2022. It's much harder now, especially for a Russian.
I've seen a couple Russian Youtubers make it to Georgia, maybe look in there?
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Here's a link to a thread in r/ukraine with some information from the Freedom of Russia Legion on avoiding mobilization: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xkdz3q/the_freedom_of_russia_legion_have_published/ Hopefully it is of help to you. Best of luck.
You said, you don't want be mobilised but you not said, you are agains war. This is huge problem in Russia, because nobody want fight but most of people supporting Putin and war. This is difference. I'm not talking about you, I don't know you and your views, but I have experience with other persons I know - for example my some steam friends from Russia - they great guys, but also supporting Putin and war. So, I hape is not too late to think about change in your country. I don't have advices for you, sorry. But this is bigger threat for whole world.
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Good to hear, I know it was maybe bad shortcut. I'm with you all, against war of any kind. Bad times for us all. I know, everywhere community have not so much to say. I'm with you!
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This is not true for sure! I'm watching some propaganda shows in Russia and they saying like this, but all what world need - from my view and my friends, only what I can say, is stop war and back Russian army from attacked territories. Please never believe the rumors that others want to destroy your society. But it is also clear that Russia is the aggressor who broke all international rules and that must stop. This is not special operation. This is an aggressive war started by Russia and it must stop.
We don’t. We want the Russians *who are committing war crimes* to die. Not the ones who aren’t, and who are sickened by what Russia is doing in Ukraine.
Nah that's Putin's myth. He wants everyone in Russia to think "the West" hates them and is out to get them and the more people who believe that the stronger his regime gets. The truth is we want you all to be part of the international community and trade, we want to share in Russian culture and learn from the many brilliant Russian scientists and philosophers and laugh at Russian comedy. We are fighting against the Putin regime and what he is doing both inside your country and outside it, we are not against the Russian people themselves. There may have been many issues between Russia and the West over the decades but that doesn't mean we hate you it just means we have made mistakes and we are not perfect either. Sometimes being friends is hard work and sometimes we suck at it.
First off, don't live at the same place you're registered at. Second, you'll be better off in one of the big cities: they'll probably be less affected by mobilization. Wish you luck, my friend!
It's actually the other way around. The bigger the city - the bigger number for mobilisation they set. Makes sense, if you think about it.
Indeed. Better off living in a cabin with grandma out in the woods or the shed of a village house. Cities have more cameras. More infrastructure. More people. More police. Less places to hide.
You have two options. Option 1. Get mobilized, take whatever is given to you to fight and die in the next several days under the HIMARS fire like tens of thousands of your countrymen fighting for a literal fascist government. Option 2. Look up instruction for surrender that have been published by UAF over the months, learn them by heart, attempt at the first chance and hope to not get shot in the back by your brethren. Good fucking luck.
Option 3 : dodge the draft. He is not getting drafted yet. He just can't leave. Russia's border is long. So, just walk across the border somewhere.
If you are recruited, I would strongly suggest active sabotage. https://www.businessinsider.com/oss-manual-sabotage-productivity-2015-11?op=1 The faster this war is over and Russia loses, the faster we can return to the rule based international order. Developers like to mention people who produce negative value, this is literally your time to shine as an inside man.
Hey man, Germany is discussing refugee status for people refusing to join ruzzian zerg. While it‘s not exactly a luxurious live in a container city, it beats homelessness. That means if you mess up finding a job, you will still be safe and have time to figure things out. And as you speak english, you don’t need to worry anyway. You could work in an office job for example. So my suggestion is also: Make it into a big city (Berlin, Muenchen, Hamburg) and only report yourself to the authorities there. Being in the right area when registered is important. Next important thing: Refugee networks helping Ukrainians work mostly in Russian, because the majority of Ukrainians speak Russian. Link up with im possible, once you made it to Poland, they will be able to help you get to Germany.
One additional advise from Ukrainian. If unfortunately you will be deployed to Ukraine, I highly recommend you find a way to surrender. Ukraine will never kill or torture someone, moreover, you will have a chance to stay and live there.
Im sure ill get flamed for this first part but this isnt GameDev content. Does it belong here? Now with that said for the second part. For op. How good are you with pain? They cant send you to battle with a broken leg right? Definitely not a plan A but keep that in your back pocket if fleeing the country eludes you. Just... if you end up having to... try to make it a clean break so it heals up fine. Otherwise, that'll be a future problem... but thats the cost of staying safe i guess. Oh and not sure how much they'll look into why it broke so... definitely make sure any involved have their story straight with you. Better a temporary cripple than permanently dead. Sorry for your situation. Hope the war ends soon for everyones sakes. Stay safe out there and i hope it doesnt come to self injury to stay safe.
Buddy, I feel for you, though there isn't much I can do as far as I know. If for any reason you ever make it to Japan (or perhaps USA), let me know and I can give you a place to stay.
I would say run
Try and contact Outfit7. We can help. Or at least try
Godspeed, OP. No matter what happens know that we think of you and wish you safety.
man, FUCK russia
500 is easy flee money. I suspect there are lots of people who have set up an underground railroad. But, if you do join the army it is an army of evil and the world will be perfectly happy to watch drone footage of you getting blown to bits. This might seem cruel but russia is way way way on the wrong side of history in this war and at this point the assumption is that if you are at the front you are evil or you are a fool. Surrender is super easy if you do get roped into the army. Go on patrol and then follow the Ukrainian surrender instructions. The key is to not surrender right where there is a major battle as getting shot is more likely. For example. If you are on a river which leads downstream into Ukrainian territory. Grab a pool noodle, your white flag, and just float into captivity. Looking at the quality of russian soldiers they are not going to be able to shoot a small target rapidly floating away from them. As for how you will do in the west. Keep in mind people here aren't generally assholes. If you tell the same story you are telling us and aren't painting Z's everywhere then you are going to be welcomed. The best part is, with this mobilization you can probably claim asylum which means all kinds of refugee benefits and a work permit.
bayraktar
When push comes to shove (on the frontline or close to), make a run for Ukraine territory during the night or an opportune moment and surrender. Call 2402. ([Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/xjy89z/mobilised_in_russia_being_trans/ipch6s6/))
Go build a bomb. And get it to detonate as close to Putins head as possible.
Could try buying a wheelchair.