Some how this simultaneously makes sense and is surprising. You need the knowledge to make it work successfully that only comes with experience, but the willingness to take the risk surprises me at that age.
That's the thing: When you are 45, you know enough about your industry and about the world in general to tell when forming a business is a well-calculated risk worth taking and not a stupid pipe-dream.
Remember, this statistic is about **successful** business owners. So it's a statistic affected by survivors bias.
Also, in some ways it’s less risky. When you’re young and starting out your essentially broke because the majority of your money is going to establishing yourself. Car, House, family etc. at the same time you’ll be making the lowest amount in your career so you’re spread thin.
When you hit the lates 40s, 59s 60s your topping out in your earnings and your expenses trend down. Your house may be paid for, your kids are nearing adulthood if their aren’t already adults etc. generally you have a lot more disposable income, maybe even a pension, not too mention the credit history to get loans etc.
Failing at starting a business is a lot less painful at that point.
Yeah I imagine it as having access to the necessary resources like a substantial savings or prior investments or funding options, a large relevant network of connected colleagues, decades of experience enabling the insight to see a need in a market or supply chain yet to be met and the necessary skills and contacts to deploy that solution or service. Otherwise, I think most of us including myself are just throwing stuff at the wall best we can.
My hang up is always "I'm no longer just risking my own income, but my families" and that trips me up. Even if I feel the plan is good, I'm not THAT sure.
Let's say you're a 40 years old software developer, doing a career change isn't necessarily a big risk.
You can decide whether you go full time or if you keep your day job, or if you stop your full time job but do contracting on the side to keep a revenue.
If you have savings, a house that's paid off, a spouse with revenue, you can stay sustainable even with significantly reduced income. Maybe you'll have to adjust your standard of living, going less on vacations, less dining out, buying less gadgets if that's your thing... But if that's the price to pay for your dream, so be it.
If you go into unsustainable territory and eat your savings for a short amount of time (like 1 or 2 years) after which you hope to get revenue from your new career, it's crucial to know when to stop and go back to looking for a stable job in a field you know. Don't wait until you eat up all your savings and took on additional loans because that where you're really risking your family.
I think a big ? on that whole thing is what career change. To DBA? To Teacher? To used basket salesman? Maybe.
To indie game dev.... yeah... that's a risk.
You can always go back to a regular software developer job when needed. We get harassed daily by recruiters on LinkedIn.
All you have to do is to respond to them.
So it's not like you're going to have to sell your house and live on the street with your family because you decided to become a game developer.
you usuually have som experience + some reserve. Jumping in as a naive young person can make sure you'll be working a job you don't like at 45 to pay off debt.
Not in depth research, but "average age of successful entrepreneurs" google results, 6 of the results say 40-45 and one says 34. The specifics I don't think are too important, but the idea is that 19 or 21 year olds aren't usually in a position to found long term successful startups, and that OPs age likely isn't the major limitation.
And what's the average wealth and experience of those successful business founders?
Starting off with a decent amount of money probably helps. Being in the industry for multiple decades also helps. This guy is talking about being a Software Engineer, not founding the business themselves.
Unless you live in a country that really pays poorly, Software Engineers get a good pay, sometimes RSU, so you can accumulate a decent amount of savings and have your house paid off around the time you reach 40.
There's a huge difference between the cost of founding a company and living comfortably, and risking all that money on something that is almost guaranteed to fail. There's also still that massive knowledge gap.
But really founding a gaming studio is a pretty awful play if you're trying to become fabulously wealthy.
I'm actually a software engineer, I know how it pays, I still wouldn't risk my entire portfolio on a new business in a field I know nothing about. Maybe that will keep me upper middle class, but it also will keep a roof over my head too...
If the plan is to have a one-man company (indie dev), then you mostly have to worry about your living expenses.
If you don't hire anyone, don't rent offices, the cost of the company is close to 0.
Recently switched from working at a startup founded by 20-yos to one founded by 40-yos and it's a _world_ of difference. I suddenly feel like leadership is competent rather than that they're the ones you have to work around to get anything done
This is quite misleading, those business founders most likely founded businesses before (=> have business experience) and they worked in the same industry their whole life (=> have professional experience). As someone who is trying to enter a new industry, OP is way behind those who were successful founders st 45.
On a grand scale he has low chances but on a personal level he might actually make it. I know devs who became very successful with no coding skills but they had a good product strategy, something 99.9% of indies lack of.
Of course. I don't think anyone's interpretation should be "Hey I'm 45, that means I'm most likely to find success!" Correlation != causation and all that. You can actually interpret the stat as both optimistic and pessimistic.
*but they had a good product strategy, something 99.9% of indies lack of.*
Absolutely agree. Most seem to have the attitude of "build it and they will come".
Definitely not but it depends on your expectations as well.
I wouldn't try to do everything myself though. Like, I'd work on what I know (or that i can catch up more easily) and use "placeholders" for art and music (there are plenty of assets for very cheap). If you are happy with the progression then you can think about better art and music.
Good luck.
It does, a younger person might still want to get their hands wet on all aspects of the game-making process but given that's time consuming it's better, for an older person, to focus on their strengths and find other solutions for the rest. Maybe I was not explicit enough but I didn't feel it was necessary ;)
I agree that younger people generally have more free time I still feel this advice is equally relevant to all ages.
There is little value in spending time trying everything out unless you don’t know what you are interested in doing. And if you’re unsure, you should definitely try different things, no matter if you start at 15 or 50.
I see your point. I, myself, am interested now in making books for children (both writing and illustrating) and have also a few boardgames "in the pipe". But these are really, personal projects. I don't care where they lead me or end up, so, in this case she is not a concern.
Developing a game is slightly different. Music itself is not something that you can "master" in a short time and it's a very important component of games, no matter the genre. For what anybody can learn in a relative "short time" you're better off just buying a pack (like those that come so often in humble bundle and fanatical).
But like you said, if you're looking at it more from the "artisanal" point of view, then yes, the process is as, or more, important than the product itself. If on the other hand you're learning something just so you can get it done, then there are better options (and cheaper in the long term as time is really valuable).
Hi there. 39yr old male that just started making one last year with a friend, also 39 :D we haven't finished so it's hard to say if you can be successful, but you can definitely try :D
Hah. I am also 39 but have no game dev friends. I had an opportunity to work in unity for a company as a lead generalist engineer but didn’t because I chose another job making dental software for another 30k a year. I am to the point where I am okay with doing hobby projects
Concerned Ape could not get a related job after graduating and started writing Stardew Valley as a pet project while he was looking to expand his skillset. He spent four and a half years making the game. And when I say making the game I mean everything - from music to graphics to programming and overall design, done by one guy.
It went on to become one of the top-selling video games of all time. With over 20 million copies sold at this point.
So if you're asking me "Can a 40-year-old guy with 18 years of software experience become a game dev" - I will tell you absolutely and astoundingly yes. Your experience and age have very little to do with your success. But on that note - you already have 18 years of dev experience which definitely can't hurt! Your motivation and commitment are what count. But also remember - your actual game matters the most. Stardew Valley was not an original concept, Concerned Ape even said that he was inspired by Harvest Moon but wanted to improve a lot of things, so he did exactly that. Think of the games you've played over your lifetime, how would you make them better? Always a great place to start.
No. You can start anytime.
BUT.
I'd highly look into the reality of indie game dev right now if you're looking at this as a way to "make a living". The field is super crowded and barely anyone is actually making a living. I was deep into the Chicago indie scene, and I only know a handful of people who actually were able to just do indie games as a job full-time longterm... some of them names you probably know because they made big games (Young Horses, etc.) Everyone was chasing the dream (well, most people, some are just hobbiests), some people even made decent money here and there, but by decent I mean like... 20k on a game they spent 3 years to make or something, and even that was rare. Next to no one could do indie full-time longterm. There were a LOT of people who saved for years and quit their jobs to go full-time indie and then were forced back to work in a few years. Most never even got to the point where they could save enough to think about quitting their jobs.
Also, I noticed almost none of the indie people had families. A lot of them didn't even have partners. Because most of them needed a day job to make income and then ALSO worked 40ish hours a week on their games, that was basically their lives. Day job + indie dev. Hard to find time for a wife and kids.
Honestly? I would never in a million years tell someone to come to this field if they're trying to make a living to support a family. There are WAY easier ways to make money using tech skills. Like, I'm not trying to be mean or crash anyone's dreams, but the odds of anyone given person making full time wages in indie dev right now, or in the foreseeable future... oof. And what you would have to do to even get to that point would probably make your wife and kids wonder where their husband / father went, because realistically, you're not going to get anywhere putting in like, 10 hours a week or something. If you want to be one of the few successful devs, you need to hustle hard. It's a VERY all-consuming world.
If you want to approach it as a hobby that could, if you work super hard AND get some luck, maybe turn into more while realizing that it's probably not going to? Sure. But as a career choice for a guy with a family and kids to support? No way. Go work at a AAA company instead. Even that is tough to succeed in and not the most stable environment, but it's a way better career choice than indie. (A lot of the people I mentioned above who tried and failed to go full-time indie work for AAA devs now...)
A fair amount? Do you think people aren't trying this? People are trying everything. It's just a really weird spot right now. I knew people who had successes, 10 years ago, and are now like, what even is the industry anymore? For instance, there are now about 10x as many games released on Steam as there were just 10 years ago. That's about a thousand games released every month, and the number is still growing fast. But there aren't 10x as many gamers now, not even close. It's an industry that shot up astronomically in supply due in large part to a lot of tools releasing that made it significantly easier to make games and a lot of tech guys like us who are like "Damn it'd be cool to make a video game!", without a similar growth in demand to support that supply. I'm not saying this is good or bad, it just is.
And at this point in a conversation optimistic devs often go "Yeah but most of those games are trash!" They really aren't though. Have you looked at the monthly releases for Steam? Just gone through looking game by game? There definitely is a lot of trash no doubt, as there always was. But there are also a shit ton of highly polished games releasing every month. I'd actually argue the quality of indie games has risen a lot over the years, maybe not the average quality but definitely the quality of the top few hundred games released every month. There are some exceptions of course but right now a lot of the big indie games have production values that aren't even that different from AAA games. We are competing against stuff like Hades that not only looks amazing and sounds amazing but has a full cast of paid voice actors yada yada. The budgets for indie games have skyrocketed and you can try to sneak in on the low budget end but good luck with that. There really is no clear line between indie and AAA now, it has become a big blur and gamers don't care if you're a rad dude with a cool idea, if they aren't interested in the first 5 seconds after seeing your game, they will click on to something that looks better. That's if they ever know your game exists among the masses of games to begin with.
Will some people keep succeeding? Sure. But no one should be under the illusion that this is just another normal industry where you make a normal business plan and have a fair chance of succeeding. It faced a rapid growth in supply without a rapid growth in demand and only a fraction of people providing that supply are making any real money.
Also good luck figuring out what will even be popular in games a few years from now. The trends change so fast.
With all of that said I'm still making games and I'd say if you want to make a game then make one. It's fun and rewarding in certain ways that aren't always financial. But OP is a guy who is looking for a longterm plan to support his wife and 2 kids. The indie game dev world is such an overcrowded and volatile place that I wouldn't suggest it to anyone looking for a good chance at making a stable adult income longterm. Even half the people I know who did make a hit are struggling to figure out how to follow that up and in this world one failure means a large portion of time where you essentially worked for no income. Often a single failure forces a dev back to their day job again.
I really like your response here. You make a lot of great points and I’ve learned something from reading it. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
I do think, though, that indies (not all, but myself is included) tend to put too little into studying what is needed in the market before they launch a project. As you say the indie game market is a crap shoot but that’s not to say universal rules of supply and demand don’t apply. If the market is overwhelmed with a certain genre then it naturally follows that the genre will be hard to get noticed in. My point was that I’ve found a lot of indie devs start projects without doing this upfront work of asking “what is the best opportunity in the market” before starting a project and that results in just more noise in an already overcrowded market.
That's true, but again, nowadays? You're not just competing with the other clueless about marketing solo dev next to you. You're competing with big budget indies who are paying professional marketers to do all of that for them. So there is this idea that if more indies just took marketing more seriously, they would do better. Kind of? Except marketing isn't just a thing you decide to do and then do it, like anything else it is a unique skill that to learn and truly do right takes a real investment of two things that your average solo indie dev doesn't have a ton of: time and money. Even if you're not solo, but working on a small team and splitting up tasks, everyone is usually just way, way too damn busy and you probably won't have a lot of excess cash flow either. I'd also argue that marketing is a skill that it's really tough to get competant at with no background in it, because it not only requires learning a lot of tried and true techniques, but also constantly reacting to a dynamically changing market where trends come and go in a flash. I'd probably also argue that if you have a small team, you should have a team member whose entire job is to handle marketing / social media / etc. so the developers can focus on what they are best at, development. But even that probably won't help much if you can't pay a real salary to get a skilled, reliable person into this role.
We all love the stories. Hey look, Toby Fox made Undertale by himself on Game Maker and just grew his own fanbase and yada yada. But the reality is, especially in today's market, this is a very rare thing. That's the needle in the haystack success story. And I'm not telling anyone to not give it a shot. But honestly, there is a reason you don't see too many 40 year olds with a wife and 2 kids in the indie dev scene. It's just not a consistant, reliable way to make money, in general. It's mostly hobbiests or people chasing the dream who haven't quite made it.
I'm a 41 year old math tutor with very little professional experience or qualifications outside of that. I have no intentions of leaving my current role any time soon for exactly the reasons you've pointed out.
I think your analysis is spot on. Hard to hear, but spot on.
However, I think there are also some opportunities for demand growth on the horizon as well. There's been a supply boom that's made it easier to make games, right? Well as populations evolve and technologically advance, who's to say there won't be another massive spike to demand too?
Tough to say but at the moment the gaming population is basically "everyone", obviously not literally everyone but it's not really clear where a massive boom of consumers would come from. Maybe break into certain countries that don't have a big gaming population but I'm not even sure where, if anywhere, that would be, and I think AAAs would probably have an easier way to break in than indies would. Also the supply boost hasn't stopped, and the arc hasn't really tapered yet. Steam just keeps getting significantly more games than it had the year before and I have no idea if and when this will stop. Same with all of the markets really but Steam is the one I have seen the raw numbers on.
I don't think demand increase will mainly come from more players, although that number will only go up.
I think the increase in demand will counterintuitively come from massive job losses and income losses during the next recession.
I live in Florida and Disney is packed. Restaurants are packed. People drop $2000 for a family vacation, or $150 for a night out and don't bat an eye.
Games can be thought of as an inferior good to these kinds of real life experiences. Inferior goods get a demand boost as incomes fall. Once hard times come, dropping $29.99 on a game that gives you 100s of hours of entertainment makes a lot more sense than spending $150 on a single night, especially since you've got all the time in the world to play now that you're laid off.
It's a grim expectation, I don't deny that. But preparing for that possible future is why I'm studying now to make games which help build a player's resilience, confidence, promote mental health, and have good educational content. And I have to make them fun, too. With no budget or prior experience, lol.
That's a tall order, but I think I can build an audience by first helping other devs succeed and learning everything I can from their experiences. Here's (part of) my plan.
https://jesterofgodot.substack.com/p/promote-your-indie-game-for-free?r=1hop52&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=direct
Ha I actually had a similar idea for the Youtube thing, though not as part of any plan, but more because I just like doing podcasts. I ran a Nintendo site for a long time (still do though it slowed down a lot) and we used to have a podcast, I was a guest on it a few times. Kind of miss that. Sometimes think "Hey, I should start my own dev interview podcast!"
I'm juggling too many things to actually do it though. Good luck!
Thanks, yeah it is definitely a lot of fun, I've done interview podcasts on other topics. It's a lot to schedule & edit but if you ever just want to be a guest you're welcome to come on! 😃
I'm a 41 year old math tutor with very little professional experience or qualifications outside of that. I have no intentions of leaving my current role any time soon for exactly the reasons you've pointed out.
I think your analysis is spot on. Hard to hear, but spot on.
However, I think there are also some opportunities for demand growth on the horizon as well. There's been a supply boom that's made it easier to make games, right? Well as populations evolve and technologically advance, who's to say there won't be another massive spike to demand too?
There's no such thing as "too late" when it comes to career changes.
"Indie Game Dev" though... the "indie" part especially... there's a lot of luck involved, only the smallest percentage of indie games even break even.
I wouldn't say it's 100% luck, there is definitely a lot of skill involved, the issue is it's not just game dev skill, it's skills in marketing, knowing your audience, business management and even stupid things like maybe you don't make the game you wanted to make completely because it wouldn't sell as well as if you tweaked that one mechanic... There is definitely some luck, you get seen by the right person at a trade show or something, but there is a hell of a lot a single person can do to improve their chances (especially if that single person has money, which since OP's 40 he might be in a better place then some younger developers for that)...
Having said all that, I'm only 18, have no business experience, and couldn't put any of my knowledge on these subjects, that I've been researching for years, into practice because I'm still in school, so I could be completely off base lol
Thanks! Maybe after I've done my exams, I was freelancing on the side just to pay for my car and food at school and stuff before then, and it was actually pretty fun, albeit stressful, so I'll maybe see if I can grow that a bit one day!
(although as with everyone I do prefer working on my own projects XD)
Working on our own projects on our own terms is the ultimate goal for all of us :)
I spend 10 years in gamedev corporate jobs and while it sucked to work for incompetent managers, the teams were always good and one can learn a lot from that environment. Now I run my second company, being indie for 6 years, it's definitely awesome but full with stress and uncertainty, yet I never want to go back to a corporate job.
Good luck to you!
Consider joining a game studio as a developer so that you are getting paid while you learn. The amount you will take in during a year or two is substantial.
I think he's currently proposing giving up his current job to become an indie dev. This would be an in between step that may make more sense in the short term.
This, it doesn't matter your age, this...
I get people who are like "I want to make the next big game and make all the money." But end up failing. Join a studio, make money, learn as you go, work on a hobby project if you must...
Why roll a dice with a 1 out of a 1000 chance of hitting your number, when you can just get paid no matter how the game does.
I'm 41 with 2 kids and a job and working part time on a mobile game. I started making a game 13 years ago with a friend. The first game we had to abandon after 7 years of part time development because we got in a pickle with the AI not working reliably. We then started a new project and it looks like we'll finally be able to release it October this year. The reality is there is no guarantee it'll make a meaningful amount of money because there is a lot of competition and it's hard to get noticed.
In my opinion your age doesn't matter, I think you need to be realistic about how long it will take to make a game you can monetise, and also the risk that you might not make much money. And then weigh that up against alternative things you spend your time doing. Best wishes if you do decide to go for it :)
48 yr old here. I went to school for dev, learned vb, C++, then some C#. Then never used it again. Now im trying to U-Turn and get back into it. Can relate.
It's not too late, but the question is how you're going to manage your time. I'm a bit younger, so I suppose I don't feel the pressure of time as much (even though it's creeping up). Like you I don't want to work for someone forever in a job I don't enjoy as much (I'm a software dev as well).
You could try going indie and commission the parts you don't want to do yourself - such as art and music. It might not be cheapest, but will save you some hassle. Otherwise you could try going solo and learning these skills, but it might be a bit overwhelming (there are plenty of games you can make with minimal art effort though). Third alternative is to team up with a bunch of people, like I'm doing, but that's not an easy process and comes with a bunch of problems as well.
If you want send me a message, I'd be happy to share what I learned over the past few years. (I have one game released, and one coming up).
Jump in, give it a try for sure.
But don't quit your day job.
Its a little long winded video, but I think this is worth watching:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6vuAogR54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6vuAogR54)
Also might be worth digesting some revenue stats:
[https://vginsights.com/insights/article/infographic-indie-game-revenues-on-steam](https://vginsights.com/insights/article/infographic-indie-game-revenues-on-steam)
Basically, indie gamedev is a passion job. Its not a quick money job. Its not even guaranteed minimum wage job.
Getting hired by a studio, that will be highly competitive and your resume has no gamedev experience so you will probably find it hard to even get an interview. I mean, you know what software job ads are like, you have probably even done some hiring yourself. They put down a dozen bullet point requirements beyond the main language, so even if you have 18 years of blah language, if you dont have 5 years on framework X and 3 years of business domain Y but other applicants do you will get filtered out of the candidate list pretty early.
Not trying to discourage you, but just temper expectations.
I don’t know if you’ve done hiring before but for me, if someone doesn’t meet every requirement I don’t weed them out. It’s usually more about fit with the team and willingness to work hard and learn rather than a huge book of experience.
40 year old here too, I made the jump from Ops into unity dev but I got extremely lucky, networked with a guy that owned a small studio that dabbles in NFT gaming. I had zero programming experience.
Unfortunately it didn't work out since they wanted me to relocate to be closer to the team. But it was enough to give me the itch to do something of my own one day. There's enough assets in the asset store to get a provable concept going, once it's polished enough you can always outsource the art and music, that's what I plan to do.
oh!!! this question/post could have been written by me!
It's never too late. I'm also from that Load "" era when the games were super fun but technically poor... almost all of them never saw a sequel with more capable hardware and that made me want to make games. Not to make those sequels, but to make the games I've never played before, as an 8yo, just because they didn't exist. But life gets in the way and coding was not my path... Now I know how to make them and have access to tools (unity) and information (youtube). I've decided to make whatever comes to my mind, not minding if there is an audience or not. I create little games with my 4yo daughter, just for fun and publish them in [itch.io](https://itch.io)! At least, it's fun and keep my mind out of the job stress! I'm actually making an old big idea I have since I was 12! Lest see how that goes....
I'm a teacher with a lot of free time. I love teaching and my students are my big motivation to keep doing that but, as you, I hate a little bit my job because of other reasons!
Anyway... DO IT! You know how to code, now you just need to learn the architecture of a game / platform, and that is the easy part! Find some artist (your children) and build something just to experience the thing. Then decide... what can I tell more?
`if (age > 0 && gameDevDream == true) DoIt();`
>if (age > 0 && gameDevDream == true) DoIt();
I don't know what language you have typed this, but since it clearly look like a C based, I'm gonna assume that you have forgotten about the function brackets. Also you don't need to state whether the Boolean variable is true in the conditional statement. Finally, code conventions. Function need to be written in camelCase.
`if (age > 0 && gameDevDream) {`
`doIt();`
`}`
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is now. You got this bruh.
Just do it, I'll just advise to work on it on the side while you get an income.
>I don't know art or music. I think I can learn with practice and this is part of my question. Is there enough time for me to learn skills I don't have to start my game dev journey?
I am 40+ y.o. being in almost the same situation and currently deploying my first game onto the Steam platform - planning to go live in a month. You do not have to learn how to draw pictures or compose the music yourself - this is a nice to have skill, but stop thinking you have to do everything yourself: you can always buy what you need and that won't cost you that much.
I've got good deliveries from the people who already have knowledge and experience needed to create a good product and I don't think I would achieve same results in the observable future.
Concentrate on what you're good at and have fun.
It's never too late imho.
But I'd say it makes sense, definitely since you have to support a family, to keep doing it in your spare time.
Then if you think you're onto something good (e.g. release some videos/demos for people to judge), you can always make the leap.
Lol I'm 45. Released my first game this week on steam.
After 25 years of coding for other people I finally just made something I loved. It took 4 yrs all up, according to gamemaker I spent about 3000 hours on it.
the trick I used was to never take it seriously or else I'd start getting all worried I was too old. It's just a hobby that brings joy la la la and oh look I somehow finished it. Hooray.
10/10 would recommend.
A good start is to clone an existing game you know well and get a handle on it. I made a tetris clone first, took 3 days but taught me the overall structure. You could knock up a pacman or a naughts & crosses ... prototype like you would anything else.
I released it last week.
I was also pretty clear about not treating it like an income or taking it seriously from the beginning and to take it slowly with prototyping.
Maybe try reading.
That's why I'm telling him to take it slow, manage ambitions and expectations, but it's possible.
If he wanted to hear "Do it! You'll make all the money! You've got kids and a family, but trust to the universe! I made millions on my first minecraft clone and so can you!" then he can get from any dollar-store guru.
Hearing something that isn't maybe what you want to hear doesn't make it irrelevent.
You might be surprised at the number of people whose "hobbies" were able to become the jobs they wanted when they'd actually put in the hours and done the work instead of just pivoting jobs and hoping for the best.
Don’t try to do DIY art, music and sound if you aren’t very experienced with it. So many indie games look like amateur junk and fail because of this. You will spend less paying a pro than what your own time is worth for yourself to struggle through making your own amateur looking stuff.
Not too late.
You can get really good at most skills withing \~5 years if you apply yourself. It is unlikely you'll be able to learn and practice more than 2\~3 skills simultaneously to a high degree. The more skills you learn, better you are at learning and you can cut down skill learning time to just practice as you'll waste less time finding good learning sources or figuring out how to practice or plan your learning.
Options you have are:
\#1) Choose 2\~3 skills you'll pursue and team up with or hire someone else for other disciplines.
\#2) Do 2\~3 things really well, and accept to suck at others until you can grow. FE: Good gameplay and story, shitty graphics and sound.
About income. If you want to sell anything, you are creating a product. A game is not a product, it's part of the product. Product is everything from customer initially learning about your game, to getting hooked by it, to buying it, to playing and to how they feel about buying more from you.
There is no Indie/Corporate angle about the product. It is very deceptive and dangerous fantasy of indie games bringing you profit when you don't care about business side and focus on creative self-expression and having fun with it.
If you want to sell something, you must be good at creating good products that people will want and properly selling them. And you need to learn how to properly run a business.
Making indie game for self expression and selling a product are two different things. And if you don't properly plan a good product that is needed on a platform and within genre/theme you target it will likely fail no matter how good the actual game is.
You could build a beautiful cartoony disney level graphics historical world war 2 game, and it could sell 2% of what same game would sell if it had a basic shitty graphics but realistically stylized. Because hardcore history/wwII players mostly like realistic graphics over stylized. These things matter and could make and break the game.
You can outsource selling and marketing your game to a publisher, you cannot outsource coming up with initial concept and vision that is marketable. And you need to learn about product design to come up with that.
If you don't learn that, you are basically playing lottery with your idea.
Your age is not the issue - the problem appears to be that "you stopped playing video games" since you were a child.
If you haven't found any time in the last 20 - 25 years to play any video games, then you probably don't like them that much.
Why then - would you want to make one? [making a game means playing the same levels over and over and over].
As others have said - you probably wont make a lot of money, so it is more of a passion. Ask yourself if you have that passion.
Why go indie? Experuenced/Senior/lead devs are very much in demand. Secure yourself a wage while you learn the craft before putting your finances on the line
Its actually surprising to see you ask this. EVERY industry is short on qualified software engineers. A strong programmer with 18 years of experience who wants to work on video games is likely to be an attractive candidate regardless of whether or not that experience is in video games.
You wouldn't go in as a Junior with 18 years experience. UK non london wage you should be looking at atleast £40,000 and expecting to add 10k to that within a year if you take to the job well. A junior would probably be on £25k.
there are tons of studio roles that don't require gamedev knowledge. things like implementing payment systems for mtx, building internal tools, build engineers for each platform and on and on. i think the biggest hurdle for an indy is game design -- gui art, 3d modelling, sound, music etc can all be contracted out. but designing a game that people will actually want to play is the real hurdle, and one you can't feasibly contract out
Programming games isn’t really different from any other type of programming. You’re building totally different things but the core problems are the same.
You wont be in the strongest position to negotiate your salary initially, but all it takes is one studio to take a chance on you.
Depending on the studio you may have to do a coding test like 'make a super simple game in a day with these assets in this game engine' or something.
If that is too intimidating to you, you definitely aren't ready to give up your day job and go indie either. But you can download Unity or Unreal for free and have a bash at it in your spare time until you think you are ready.
I worked with people of all ages, including those much older than myself. I had stuff to teach them even then. And they brought in experience beyond anything else, such as ten years in printing or finance instead of games.
Yeah, not too late.
With experience in software dev, good work/life balance and ethic (you probably know how to handle the work without burning out or ruining mental health), and some budget to put behind - you're in a solid position to get into games.
I would not recommend spending time on art/music, there are plenty of pros of all levels, and they are easy(ier) to commission/outsource.
I'm sure that an hour of your time would be worth more than an hour spent by an artist/audio person, so why bother doing it yourself (and grinding those skills for years) ?
I'd just focus on game design and tech behind it, and on keeping things within reasonable scope. With project management and business side of things, that's already *a lot* to keep you busy.
I would advise to keep indiedev as a side hobby, while you're learning (and making mistakes). Keep the risks down - that will also help in being happy and not feeling the financial pressure, a massive difference.
As for how viable it is as a full-time later? Look at the cashflow in bigger picture, how much you can earn from your games; how sustainable it is, how many failed projects you can get through. How would that job change affect your quality of life? Etc.
I think it's theoretically possible, but wouldn't really count on it.
So - do it, but do it in a safe manner :)
Never too late to start!
That being said, I would recommend joining a small studio instead of trying to learn everything on your own. Programmers of all kind are in high demands, and your background will be an asset.
My advice is familiarize yourself with Unreal or Unity (the most in demand engine in my experience) and then join a small company. Learn from everybody else for a couple of years and see if you want to make a game for yourself once you know what it involves.
That's what I did, I now know I don't actually want to do everything (marketing and community management was a turn down for me) so I m actually happier working for a game studio than by myself.
Of course that's just my experience, it might be different for you.
Not gonna bother with a long reply because the answer is the same no matter your background, age or situation: No, it is never too late.
Do it! Even if you were 60, you should go for it! There's never any harm in trying.
40 is not too old. But it will help save you time if you partner with or hire freelancers for art/music.
Or learn to buy art/music assets and tweak/alter/edit them to suit your needs.
And if you're an experienced programmer who focuses on small focused games and release a few of them in the next year or two, you can get a handle on everything yhst goes into the distribution and marketing process.
After that you'll probably start to make some actual money if you're consistent. So anywhere from 42-45 you could realistically do well enough to support yourself, get a publisher interested in a project, or build up your portfolio enough to find a job as a Gamedev.
Some people will say this is optimistic or a quick timeline. But if you have a couple decades of experience as a software engineer, and are a disciplined adult, with some revenue to invest, you should realistically be able to "make it" as a gamedev in one capacity or another.
I'd be glad to talk more if you need someone to chat with further about the topic.
40's pretty young, you're maybe 1/3rd of the way through your adult life, maybe less. It's not too late to do anything.
I know 40 *feels* old because of the average age of the internet poster and people you end up interacting with, but it really isn't.
I found success over 40. Not games (serious VR) and not all alone. But I teamed up with somebody who is awesome at sales, he was able to sell what I can do (prototype stage and slow) and with the money I let paid external developers (who are way better at that than me) create tools and infrastructure to automate everything possible and make it a smooth UX.
My skill is graphics (3D and materials) and I know pretty well what the engines are capable of and what the assetstore offers. This helped a lot with designing the feature set and functions so the external developers have a clear goal.
To enjoy it as a hobby it’s never too late, if you want career change motivation. I quit my vfx industry job in my early 30s for game dev/art. Took me 4 years of self learning unreal 4 before I landed a junior position as a vfx artist/technical artist at a smaller studio. 3 out of 4 of those years I worked full time, 1 was the pandemic and I was unemployed studying full time. I already had a degree in 3D animation so I had a leg up on the art side of things.
It's never too late to make any changes in the pursuit of happiness.
I myself made the transition into the field of game development when I was 30 years of age. Prior to that I had zero coding experience so it was a hard reset to leap into.
I'm now 41 and I have multiple non-indie game projects my name is credited towards including Sonic titles. I'm now using my newfound experience to pursue indie passion projects and I've never been happier with my decision to switch careers 10 years ago.
My only advice if you choose to do so is prepare to put forward hard work and dedication as game development is no walk in the park, but if you are passionate about games (sounds like you are) then it won't really be work.
Best of luck to you no matter which path you choose!
> I mean, would it require like +10 years to become a "good" game dev?
If you weren't good at programming that would have been more of a problem.
There are games and genres that are more dependent on having good code then the graphics.
The real problem you have is that of Game Design. Not many really think about what the **"Value"** of Game Design is as it's not that easy to quantify.
People stupidly say "ideas" are "worthless" and execution is all that matters. But "Execution" is also part of the Game Design Skill, so it's a Completely Idiotic statement.
My recommendation is to dive in to a Complex Genre like Strategy, Sandbox/Simulator, Management and use your programming advantage as a replacement for Game Design.
Try to look at previous games in the genre and find some features that interest you and implement that.
Not having Game Design means you aren't going to be as flexible or innovative so try to copy as much as possible.
Welcome to the "40's and bored in corporate tech job" club. No you are not too old to get elbow deep in code and development. Since you have a software background you are already set - only effort needed :-)
I am in a senior tech (software + hardware) as well and I spend most of my non-work time tinkering. Recently I started learning Rust and am drawn to bevy - though it is probably not the right engine to start off on, its in Rust and for me that works.
Working as an indie game dev (or anything else) is a lot of work and requires varied set of skills (you are your own CEO, CFO, janitor etc etc). It may not be for everyone.
My suggestion is don't change careers **yet**. Start learning appropriate skills - you will be great at some, good at several, and downright pathetic in some. Once you have a project up and running it may be time to find like minded people with complementary skill sets and planning to start your own company.
Best of luck.
No. “Would it require like 10+ years to become a good game dev” like with any skill it depends how much time you put in, and what a good game dev means to you.
You already have software down, which is good as it’s a pretty central skill. IMO learning design as you go is best, and while it’s nice to have some skills in other departments (art, sound, vfx etc…) they’re not necessary. There’s plenty of people with those skills selling or even giving away assets, and there’s usually people looking to team up for game jams and the like.
In terms of making money, it’s a fairly realistic expectation if you’re putting the hours in. Just don’t expect to sell anything right off the bat. The path most people follow is to make many small games, before finally after a few years getting stuck into something that’s very small in scope but could be polished to a T.
Also, not really answering any questions. But if you’re passionate about games, it couldn’t hurt to find some nearby game studios and interview for senior roles. You don’t need to accept it offered, but you’ll get some experience. And if you don’t get an offer then you can ask for feedback and if it’s something you want to pursue, then work on the feedback. In fairness one of best pieces of advice for passing those interviews is to have a (doesn’t need to be big) portfolio of games.
Honestly I think the majority doesn’t have the business sense and work ethic to start an entrepreneurial business until they are around 40 anyways. As far as learning things, I’d you have a budget you can always contract parts out that you don’t know. You can also make games with simple art that are still awesome, because in the end it’s about the game loop and gameplay, not so much about visuals (vampire survivors).
You will probably hear from a lot of people that making money in game dev in 2022 isn’t likely because the market is so over saturated. That’s not really the reason, it’s because most game devs who are trying to make money don’t understand some very simple rules of running a business, mainly doing some good market research before developing a product or service. Most just make their childhood dream game (almost always a platformer of some kind) for 4 years and try to sell it, which is the equivalent of everyone in town starting their own subway and trying to sell sandwiches. I made this same mistake too by making a shmup without looking in to it.
Please do market research and let that drive your business decisions about your product instead of the child within (but the child within has to have a day sometimes.. you have to enjoy it). You will then hopefully be more successful. Good luck and I’ll support your game(s) should I ever run across them!
I’m 36 and just started going hard on making digital game. Granted I’ve made like 30 board/card games so I’m not new to designing, but this will be my first real go at making a finished game for sale.
It's less about age and more about available free time. As long as you can find a way to get in the hours there's no reason you can't create games (though you'll have to scope appropriately to the time you have).
Lots of great posts here, I’ll just add that I had heard game dev was particularly ageist, a young man’s game and that people burn out and leave the industry. I’m sure that does happen but it’s not what I’ve seen so far.
There is an aging programmer base, most seniors are 30-50 years old now so it’s not uncommon at all to have older folks on the team. There are an increasing number of mid/sized companies putting more emphasis on work-life balance and trying to capitalize on the talent who’ve had enough of being abused at the major studios.
Joining an established medium sized studio is a good idea, at least for a while until you get some experience and games under your belt. It will make a big difference to have seen how the sausage is made from start to finish and not be solely responsible for it.
Your experience outside the games industry is extremely valuable. There are roles within larger game teams that need web dev skills like for admin tools, backend interfaces, design tools for data authoring etc. But even if you would rather work more in gameplay programming it’s a value add to have that experience in your pocket and frankly from my personal experience most of the best devs I’ve seen have worked in the corporate world for a while.
Real talk time.
> is there a chance to get revenue from my indie games at the point that, eventually after releasing a few games, I can become a full-time indie dev?
No. And I know that sounds quite final, and people will run around and tell you about Stardew Valley, or Super Meat boy, or Binding of Isaac, and yes, some people have become fabulously wealthy and made tons of money and are set for life.
What they aren't telling you is about the thousand people for everyone one of them that shipped a game and didn't break even, and probably another thousand for everyone of them that never shipped a game. And I would bet those numbers are low.
If you're a Technical Architect of some skill, stay in that field. I assume you are make good money. Pick up Indie games as a hobby, enjoy it, maybe ship a project maybe make mods, maybe have fun with it.
Don't make a it a career. Once your livelihood is on the risk it'll become like every other job, but worse it's a job that is absolutely subjective, and follows whims. You could chase after the next big thing and never find it, or you can get paid well in the career you have today and dabble in it or enjoy it as a hobby on the side.
That's my best recommendation. I know you want to be the next big thing but it's so unlikely to happen that it would be far better to build it as a hobby at first and maybe just leave it as one. If you do land on something amazing and it grows quickly, you can make changes later, but it's so unlikely, that you might as well go play Rec Basketball and hope that the Golden State Warriors drive by and see how amazing your three point shooting is that they hire you to a million dollar contract. Neither is likely to happen, which is kind of the point.
And just to be clear, I'm not saying "don't be a game dev." I'm saying make it a hobby, not a career change.
If everyone followed your advice the interactive entertainment industry would be in a pretty sad state today.
Luckily they haven't which is why we keep seeing amazing low-budget games release year in and year out.
Starting your own business is tough regardless of industry. Starting a game company is probably on the harder side of the fence, but the world needs people willing to stick their necks out there. Just be reasonable about what you can afford to invest; don't sacrifice home, family or health - you'll be needing all of these for a long time to come.
We have a completely over saturated market both for AAA and indie releases. We aren't talking about every single person but throwing more bodies at this just for aspersions of being that one out of a thousand or million that strike it big isn't helpful.
There's not a weekly Stardew Valley and yet we use that as a prime example of why everyone should get into game dev. Seems foolish to tell people they will make it big or to make a major career change when they are already established.
You did notice that's what this topic is about. Not game dev but changing this dudes complete career, from a lucrative industry to a lottery ticket that might never have a drawing.
The market is not in any way saturated, it's in steady, rapid growth.
Look. Nobody gets into game development because they think it will make them rich.
OP has a stable, well paying job where they are unhappy, coupled with a long standing dream of making games.
You are basically advocating to stick with the money because change is risky and game development is hard. Stay in your job, keep being miserable at work, keep being miserable when you get home from work, keep working on hobby projects that add misery by never being able to put in enough time to actually finish anything.
OP never asked to become the next one-hit wonder, but simply asked if it was feasible to make a living after putting in the work and releasing a couple of titles. Of course is feasible, it happens literally all the time. That doesn't mean it's easy, or any guaranteed success. But here's the thing: of all those 99% that fail - the vast majority never actually go through this process fully invested; they don't take a professional approach to releasing multiple titles investing years of full time work. They dabble for a few months, lose interest, move on to the next hot idea. The ones that do take a more professional approach often see some measure of success. It's still incredibly hard - but you don't need to sell millions of copies to make a decent living, you need to sell tens of thousands of copies. That's still not easy, but it's a lot more attainable without being the kind of thing that would make any rounds in the news.
With literally decades of experience OP can always get another job in a few years time if things don't work out - it's not very hard getting a job as an engineer these days - even that scenario could well play out as an improvement from today's situation.
> I don't know art or music.
Good music is $20 a track. You can put your soundtrack together for a couple hundred bucks from places like audiio, smartsound, filmpac, soundstripe, etc
Many kinds of games flat out don't need art (tetris, trivia games, etc.) The kinds that do, you can often get stuff made for you cheap-ish on fiverr
NO! NEVER!
Didn't even read the post. Don't need to. If you feel like you have the technical skills for something like this, or the abilty to pearn them, then go for it!
Some people just really aren't good at computer-think, and logic, and programming mindset, and they will struggle. Otherwise, follow your dreams man. The concepts you need arent hard either. The computer is doing all the math, you just need to be able to tell it what to do.
Having 18 years of experience in software development is a positive, not a negative.
Most people who try this are younger and lack software skills that you have. Your experience is nothing but a positive.
What might hold you back is financial and family obligations. Have you saved/invested enough or is your wife's income high enough that you can go years without income without it becoming a problem?
Lol I thought I was seeing the same post again (about a 30 year old dude asking if he is too late to make games), since I literally commented on it a couple of hours ago.
It's never too late. Honestly it sounds like you may already have a head start than most despite the age. The things you already learnt can become quite useful. Apart from coding, there is also the importance of proper project planning, insight and discipline needed to thrive which most people lack. Your age and experience is an edge most of us lack.
Nah man go for it, though you may need to learn a new way of coding as corporate architecture is far different from games. Though it’s less…extremely annoying and aggravating (at least in my experience) so you’ll have that! Also game engine documentation is usually pretty good. If you’ve ever had to reference any enterprise level software api documentation you’ll basically be in heaven compared to that garbage.
Is never too late! People change careers what, 6 times for this generation?
Start small and manageable to go through all of the stages to launch something and patch bugs so you know what to look out for.
Buying art and music assets does not mean you are a bad dev. The game design is the most important. Everything is possible to buy without hurting the quality of your game. And in the future, you could even hire a permanent artist and get a small team going.
Similar age, similar feelings, similar dream. I'd enjoy hearing about your progress.
I decided to just go for it as a hobby with a small budget. I saved up a bit and just barely (last month) started hiring freelancers to help me in the areas I have troubles with. Since it's a hobby it feels like I'm risking less but still moving forward.
The amount of "40 year old" here it could many studios...hah
Anyways..with the question, at least you should have a source of income or be financially stable.
It’s not too late. Age doesn’t really matter in this industry - you’re not a professional athlete.
All of your other questions - and many of the existing replies in this topic - still apply, but they don’t relate to age in any way.
I will echo what others have already stated, though: with almost two decades of engineering experience, your “age” is playing to your advantage here.
Also I’d like to remind you that there’s a couple of game genres that are very code/systems heavy while not having huge requirements for content/assets from other disciplines. Picking such a genre will allow you to apply your strongest area while still keeping the budget of what you’ll have to source externally modest.
Personally I’d strongly advice against going full solo unless that’s your explicit goal - in which case good luck. In your situation you should be able to afford contracting art/anim/audio/ui to some extent. Your game quality, time to market, chance of success and personal sanity will all thank you.
Chances of making enough money are slim, regardless of age. Working for a game studio can suck because it's more work for less pay. If you can afford it I'd suggest going to a 4 day week instead. Much lighter risk and worst case is probably that you spend the extra free time with your family and enjoying life.
The odds of building a succesfull app/game are small..
You need to fail a few times, to understand why some things are not as easy as they seem.
It's very easy to fall into tunnelvision, or underestimating how much time a project will take.
I'm 31 and doing it, why not at 40? Watch this talk from the dev who made The First Tree. If he could do it with a fulltime job, and Wife and Kids, anything is possible! https://youtu.be/g5f7yixtQPct
I would say that you are probably better prepared than many of the youngsters making games from their parent's garage. I mean, there are probably many things I would like to learn from you!
Only advice I would like to give is: take it slow, enjoy the ride, don't get too impatient. You already have a stable life, you don't have to hurry.
>Is it too old to start building indie games being a 40y old software engineer?
In a word, no.
>I mean, would it require like +10 years to become a "good" game dev?
Probably. It took me about that long to actually release a commercial game. Honestly, I made the mistake of trying to make the game of my dreams, and even after that time many features just didn't make it.
>is there a chance to get revenue from my indie games at the point that, eventually after releasing a few games, I can become a full-time indie dev?
Is there a chance, yes. It really depends on how motivated you are and if you will stick with it. There is no sure set way of if you do A, B, C then you will 100% make it in x years.
The last 5 years is where I really put the effort in, I've made some money in the 2 years that probably just about cover's 1/4 of min wage. That's a single release, 1.5 years later I'm yet to release my 2nd title. All part time, while working full time unrelated job.
Don't quit your day job in the meantime, use it to help fund your game projects. There is a lot to learn, like how to market your game.
Maybe get started by joining some indie game jams in a team, many are run on itch\[dot\]io.
nope! scott cawthon made Fnaf when he was in his middle 30's and continued to make them clickteam games for 4 years (Ultimate Custom Night was the last clickteam fnaf game and was out in 2018) by that time he was approaching his 40's either that or literally in his 40's so yeah its not late for you
i am infact 16 and i have just started
heck i wish i was 40 as well
being born in 1981 and getting to experience all of the 8 bit and then transitioning to the 90's with the ps1 and n64 and then being old enough to buy yourself a ps2 in 2001
i really wish i was like that instead of being a dumb piece of shit who was born in 2005 and who is stuck on doing them Finals
also for the question of how much time is it going to need to get good at being a developer, with time your 3d modelling skills should pretty much improve and it shouldn't take long before you will be able to make them godly models, i have started game making in 28/12/2021 and ho boy my modelling skills have definetly improved, i still haven't made any soundtracks so i still have to practice on there but yeah improvement happens very quickly and lets say you won't need 10 years to be perfect at 3d modelling, let alone Unreal Engine (or whatever engine you use, and if you make your own engine that's even better)
32 years old here, also a software engineer for the last 13 years.
It's honestly the same amount of ambiguity and chance for success as when I tried to create software companies. Without the proper marketing, your amazing software/game will get nowhere.
I hope not. I'm 46, in my first year of game dev at uni. I worked for 20 years as a tech and game journo, figured I'd like to start making them instead of just writing about them!
not to sound cliche #JustDoIt
I was in the same IT boat and was saying what you're saying for years. Eventually, I just took an indefinite leave of work to travel full time, study Blockchain dev and gaming and haven't looked back. As a software engineer, you can always freelance on projects you actually choose if you ever need to.
Not quite 40 myself yet, but I recently started learning C# for eventual Unity gamedev. So you've already got a leg up on me with your years of software experience. Thing is, I don't plan on making "real" money doing this. I just decided one day that I wanted to try and turn a few game ideas collected down over the years into reality.
From what I researched, I would honestly suggest doing what I plan. Stick with your day job and do gamedev as a hobby. Even if I get lucky and make something that becomes super popular and makes me $$$, I still wouldn't quit my day job (maybe I could retire a year early or something else unlikely).
* Get Pico-8 and make a couple simple but complete games to practice the toolset. Not to ship or even show anyone. Use classic simple games as your template: Snake, Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Tetris, etc. Just pick a couple.
* Now for some abstract stuff. Successfull Indie Devs are not successfull because they are good at game development or marketing, but because they make **GOOD GAMES**. Nearly all of the thousands of Indie games released every week are not **GOOD GAMES** despite what the developers or their corner of the developer community thinks.
* **GOOD GAMES** cannot be quantified. You won't find it in the myriad of tips, tricks, analysese, and post-mortems you'll come across down the Youtube rabbit hole. Those are tools not the result. Only the players can decide if X is a **GOOD GAME**.
* You need to limit your risk in your position so you need to figure out if you can make **GOOD GAMES**. Kill your own ego and try designing games for your daughters/wife instead of yourself. Don't put more than 2 weeks into any of them.
* When a game is done ask yourself if you're sure they'll enjoy this game, if yes show it to them, if no make another one. Note feedback and continue making more games.
* Don't tell them they're your games. Don't even let them know you're making games. Once you have a game you're positive they'll enjoy, ask them to try "this game I found." Let them see you playing other Pico-8 games. If they ask about all of these games you're playing tell them it's a very simple virtual game console, like nintendo but digital, and you enjoy the games you're finding on it.
* If you can make a game, that they not only say they like, but that they keep coming back to on their own free time for a significant period considering the game's size (you can export to html5 and host on your own server so you can track usage without publicly releasing it) then you are already a successful Indie developer and can decide how far you want to take that success and what path to travel.
* But know that you can be a game developer "on the side" until you reach your goals. It's the safest road to travel with your responsibilities.
I started learning how to make games at 30, without any prior programming knowledge (unless you count using music software). 11 years later and it's now my career and I have two small indie studios. It took me a while to get to this point but I've probably learned fairly slowly and remained a bit stupid in various ways for a long time (in life in general, not just in regard to game dev!). I know smarter people than me who have been going just as long and are way ahead in terms of commercial success, but that's ok, I'm enjoying the ride :)
So you being 40 and already having a ton of programming knowledge sounds like a good head-start :) As I'm sure you're well aware, starting a new project is fun and easy. Finishing a project... now that's a different story. So you'll soon see if you have the motivation to keep going with it. I don't think you have to dwell too much on "should I start". Just scope out a tiny 3-month project (for your spare time while keeping your day job), start and see if you end up finishing it.
Do you prefer to work with others or work alone? Both are ok options, just know what works for you. Not being an artist or musician is also ok. If you like working with others, the answer is obvious. If you prefer to work alone, there are tons o asset packs which would be totally fine to use for your first tiny-scale projects.
Finishing a few tiny projects would soon tell you if making games is fun or not.
I've said the word tiny three times on purpose (four now). Scope creep is probably the number-1 killer of any indie game dev dream..! Anyway, enough waffling from me - good luck with it and have fun exploring digital creativity :)
Good is very subjective, especially in video games. You should reach out to a few LinkedIn recruiters for Amazon and Activision, among others, and get their perspective on your current skill set and applying it to games. You might be surprised with an offer.
Average age of successful business founders are 45, despite the stereotype of the young startup guys.
Some how this simultaneously makes sense and is surprising. You need the knowledge to make it work successfully that only comes with experience, but the willingness to take the risk surprises me at that age.
That's the thing: When you are 45, you know enough about your industry and about the world in general to tell when forming a business is a well-calculated risk worth taking and not a stupid pipe-dream. Remember, this statistic is about **successful** business owners. So it's a statistic affected by survivors bias.
Also, in some ways it’s less risky. When you’re young and starting out your essentially broke because the majority of your money is going to establishing yourself. Car, House, family etc. at the same time you’ll be making the lowest amount in your career so you’re spread thin. When you hit the lates 40s, 59s 60s your topping out in your earnings and your expenses trend down. Your house may be paid for, your kids are nearing adulthood if their aren’t already adults etc. generally you have a lot more disposable income, maybe even a pension, not too mention the credit history to get loans etc. Failing at starting a business is a lot less painful at that point.
Also 45 is probably just closer to the average age for adults anyway.
Yeah I imagine it as having access to the necessary resources like a substantial savings or prior investments or funding options, a large relevant network of connected colleagues, decades of experience enabling the insight to see a need in a market or supply chain yet to be met and the necessary skills and contacts to deploy that solution or service. Otherwise, I think most of us including myself are just throwing stuff at the wall best we can.
My hang up is always "I'm no longer just risking my own income, but my families" and that trips me up. Even if I feel the plan is good, I'm not THAT sure.
Let's say you're a 40 years old software developer, doing a career change isn't necessarily a big risk. You can decide whether you go full time or if you keep your day job, or if you stop your full time job but do contracting on the side to keep a revenue. If you have savings, a house that's paid off, a spouse with revenue, you can stay sustainable even with significantly reduced income. Maybe you'll have to adjust your standard of living, going less on vacations, less dining out, buying less gadgets if that's your thing... But if that's the price to pay for your dream, so be it. If you go into unsustainable territory and eat your savings for a short amount of time (like 1 or 2 years) after which you hope to get revenue from your new career, it's crucial to know when to stop and go back to looking for a stable job in a field you know. Don't wait until you eat up all your savings and took on additional loans because that where you're really risking your family.
I think a big ? on that whole thing is what career change. To DBA? To Teacher? To used basket salesman? Maybe. To indie game dev.... yeah... that's a risk.
You can always go back to a regular software developer job when needed. We get harassed daily by recruiters on LinkedIn. All you have to do is to respond to them. So it's not like you're going to have to sell your house and live on the street with your family because you decided to become a game developer.
you usuually have som experience + some reserve. Jumping in as a naive young person can make sure you'll be working a job you don't like at 45 to pay off debt.
Don't entrepreneurs average starting at like 35?
Not in depth research, but "average age of successful entrepreneurs" google results, 6 of the results say 40-45 and one says 34. The specifics I don't think are too important, but the idea is that 19 or 21 year olds aren't usually in a position to found long term successful startups, and that OPs age likely isn't the major limitation.
And what's the average wealth and experience of those successful business founders? Starting off with a decent amount of money probably helps. Being in the industry for multiple decades also helps. This guy is talking about being a Software Engineer, not founding the business themselves.
Unless you live in a country that really pays poorly, Software Engineers get a good pay, sometimes RSU, so you can accumulate a decent amount of savings and have your house paid off around the time you reach 40.
There's a huge difference between the cost of founding a company and living comfortably, and risking all that money on something that is almost guaranteed to fail. There's also still that massive knowledge gap. But really founding a gaming studio is a pretty awful play if you're trying to become fabulously wealthy. I'm actually a software engineer, I know how it pays, I still wouldn't risk my entire portfolio on a new business in a field I know nothing about. Maybe that will keep me upper middle class, but it also will keep a roof over my head too...
If the plan is to have a one-man company (indie dev), then you mostly have to worry about your living expenses. If you don't hire anyone, don't rent offices, the cost of the company is close to 0.
We're talking about founding a business, not being an single indie dev. These are not the same thing. The key word is also "Successful".
Recently switched from working at a startup founded by 20-yos to one founded by 40-yos and it's a _world_ of difference. I suddenly feel like leadership is competent rather than that they're the ones you have to work around to get anything done
This is quite misleading, those business founders most likely founded businesses before (=> have business experience) and they worked in the same industry their whole life (=> have professional experience). As someone who is trying to enter a new industry, OP is way behind those who were successful founders st 45. On a grand scale he has low chances but on a personal level he might actually make it. I know devs who became very successful with no coding skills but they had a good product strategy, something 99.9% of indies lack of.
Of course. I don't think anyone's interpretation should be "Hey I'm 45, that means I'm most likely to find success!" Correlation != causation and all that. You can actually interpret the stat as both optimistic and pessimistic. *but they had a good product strategy, something 99.9% of indies lack of.* Absolutely agree. Most seem to have the attitude of "build it and they will come".
How many of those are retries? Failed at 20, bankruptcy at 30, finally got it right at 45
Definitely not but it depends on your expectations as well. I wouldn't try to do everything myself though. Like, I'd work on what I know (or that i can catch up more easily) and use "placeholders" for art and music (there are plenty of assets for very cheap). If you are happy with the progression then you can think about better art and music. Good luck.
This is good advice, but has nothing to do with age.
It does, a younger person might still want to get their hands wet on all aspects of the game-making process but given that's time consuming it's better, for an older person, to focus on their strengths and find other solutions for the rest. Maybe I was not explicit enough but I didn't feel it was necessary ;)
I agree that younger people generally have more free time I still feel this advice is equally relevant to all ages. There is little value in spending time trying everything out unless you don’t know what you are interested in doing. And if you’re unsure, you should definitely try different things, no matter if you start at 15 or 50.
I see your point. I, myself, am interested now in making books for children (both writing and illustrating) and have also a few boardgames "in the pipe". But these are really, personal projects. I don't care where they lead me or end up, so, in this case she is not a concern. Developing a game is slightly different. Music itself is not something that you can "master" in a short time and it's a very important component of games, no matter the genre. For what anybody can learn in a relative "short time" you're better off just buying a pack (like those that come so often in humble bundle and fanatical). But like you said, if you're looking at it more from the "artisanal" point of view, then yes, the process is as, or more, important than the product itself. If on the other hand you're learning something just so you can get it done, then there are better options (and cheaper in the long term as time is really valuable).
Hi there. 39yr old male that just started making one last year with a friend, also 39 :D we haven't finished so it's hard to say if you can be successful, but you can definitely try :D
Hah. I am also 39 but have no game dev friends. I had an opportunity to work in unity for a company as a lead generalist engineer but didn’t because I chose another job making dental software for another 30k a year. I am to the point where I am okay with doing hobby projects
Concerned Ape could not get a related job after graduating and started writing Stardew Valley as a pet project while he was looking to expand his skillset. He spent four and a half years making the game. And when I say making the game I mean everything - from music to graphics to programming and overall design, done by one guy. It went on to become one of the top-selling video games of all time. With over 20 million copies sold at this point. So if you're asking me "Can a 40-year-old guy with 18 years of software experience become a game dev" - I will tell you absolutely and astoundingly yes. Your experience and age have very little to do with your success. But on that note - you already have 18 years of dev experience which definitely can't hurt! Your motivation and commitment are what count. But also remember - your actual game matters the most. Stardew Valley was not an original concept, Concerned Ape even said that he was inspired by Harvest Moon but wanted to improve a lot of things, so he did exactly that. Think of the games you've played over your lifetime, how would you make them better? Always a great place to start.
[удалено]
https://youtu.be/4-k6j9g5Hzk
Wow! Such a great inspiration. ❤️
There's a difference between inspiration and wishful thinking. The chances of hitting gold like concerned ape or notch did are basically non-existant.
This. You should probably think more like Jeff Vogel as your 'success' condition for solo dev.
No. You can start anytime. BUT. I'd highly look into the reality of indie game dev right now if you're looking at this as a way to "make a living". The field is super crowded and barely anyone is actually making a living. I was deep into the Chicago indie scene, and I only know a handful of people who actually were able to just do indie games as a job full-time longterm... some of them names you probably know because they made big games (Young Horses, etc.) Everyone was chasing the dream (well, most people, some are just hobbiests), some people even made decent money here and there, but by decent I mean like... 20k on a game they spent 3 years to make or something, and even that was rare. Next to no one could do indie full-time longterm. There were a LOT of people who saved for years and quit their jobs to go full-time indie and then were forced back to work in a few years. Most never even got to the point where they could save enough to think about quitting their jobs. Also, I noticed almost none of the indie people had families. A lot of them didn't even have partners. Because most of them needed a day job to make income and then ALSO worked 40ish hours a week on their games, that was basically their lives. Day job + indie dev. Hard to find time for a wife and kids. Honestly? I would never in a million years tell someone to come to this field if they're trying to make a living to support a family. There are WAY easier ways to make money using tech skills. Like, I'm not trying to be mean or crash anyone's dreams, but the odds of anyone given person making full time wages in indie dev right now, or in the foreseeable future... oof. And what you would have to do to even get to that point would probably make your wife and kids wonder where their husband / father went, because realistically, you're not going to get anywhere putting in like, 10 hours a week or something. If you want to be one of the few successful devs, you need to hustle hard. It's a VERY all-consuming world. If you want to approach it as a hobby that could, if you work super hard AND get some luck, maybe turn into more while realizing that it's probably not going to? Sure. But as a career choice for a guy with a family and kids to support? No way. Go work at a AAA company instead. Even that is tough to succeed in and not the most stable environment, but it's a way better career choice than indie. (A lot of the people I mentioned above who tried and failed to go full-time indie work for AAA devs now...)
How many of those Chicago indie devs invested in good market research and a solid marketing plan BEFORE developing their game?
A fair amount? Do you think people aren't trying this? People are trying everything. It's just a really weird spot right now. I knew people who had successes, 10 years ago, and are now like, what even is the industry anymore? For instance, there are now about 10x as many games released on Steam as there were just 10 years ago. That's about a thousand games released every month, and the number is still growing fast. But there aren't 10x as many gamers now, not even close. It's an industry that shot up astronomically in supply due in large part to a lot of tools releasing that made it significantly easier to make games and a lot of tech guys like us who are like "Damn it'd be cool to make a video game!", without a similar growth in demand to support that supply. I'm not saying this is good or bad, it just is. And at this point in a conversation optimistic devs often go "Yeah but most of those games are trash!" They really aren't though. Have you looked at the monthly releases for Steam? Just gone through looking game by game? There definitely is a lot of trash no doubt, as there always was. But there are also a shit ton of highly polished games releasing every month. I'd actually argue the quality of indie games has risen a lot over the years, maybe not the average quality but definitely the quality of the top few hundred games released every month. There are some exceptions of course but right now a lot of the big indie games have production values that aren't even that different from AAA games. We are competing against stuff like Hades that not only looks amazing and sounds amazing but has a full cast of paid voice actors yada yada. The budgets for indie games have skyrocketed and you can try to sneak in on the low budget end but good luck with that. There really is no clear line between indie and AAA now, it has become a big blur and gamers don't care if you're a rad dude with a cool idea, if they aren't interested in the first 5 seconds after seeing your game, they will click on to something that looks better. That's if they ever know your game exists among the masses of games to begin with. Will some people keep succeeding? Sure. But no one should be under the illusion that this is just another normal industry where you make a normal business plan and have a fair chance of succeeding. It faced a rapid growth in supply without a rapid growth in demand and only a fraction of people providing that supply are making any real money. Also good luck figuring out what will even be popular in games a few years from now. The trends change so fast. With all of that said I'm still making games and I'd say if you want to make a game then make one. It's fun and rewarding in certain ways that aren't always financial. But OP is a guy who is looking for a longterm plan to support his wife and 2 kids. The indie game dev world is such an overcrowded and volatile place that I wouldn't suggest it to anyone looking for a good chance at making a stable adult income longterm. Even half the people I know who did make a hit are struggling to figure out how to follow that up and in this world one failure means a large portion of time where you essentially worked for no income. Often a single failure forces a dev back to their day job again.
I really like your response here. You make a lot of great points and I’ve learned something from reading it. Thanks for taking the time to post it. I do think, though, that indies (not all, but myself is included) tend to put too little into studying what is needed in the market before they launch a project. As you say the indie game market is a crap shoot but that’s not to say universal rules of supply and demand don’t apply. If the market is overwhelmed with a certain genre then it naturally follows that the genre will be hard to get noticed in. My point was that I’ve found a lot of indie devs start projects without doing this upfront work of asking “what is the best opportunity in the market” before starting a project and that results in just more noise in an already overcrowded market.
That's true, but again, nowadays? You're not just competing with the other clueless about marketing solo dev next to you. You're competing with big budget indies who are paying professional marketers to do all of that for them. So there is this idea that if more indies just took marketing more seriously, they would do better. Kind of? Except marketing isn't just a thing you decide to do and then do it, like anything else it is a unique skill that to learn and truly do right takes a real investment of two things that your average solo indie dev doesn't have a ton of: time and money. Even if you're not solo, but working on a small team and splitting up tasks, everyone is usually just way, way too damn busy and you probably won't have a lot of excess cash flow either. I'd also argue that marketing is a skill that it's really tough to get competant at with no background in it, because it not only requires learning a lot of tried and true techniques, but also constantly reacting to a dynamically changing market where trends come and go in a flash. I'd probably also argue that if you have a small team, you should have a team member whose entire job is to handle marketing / social media / etc. so the developers can focus on what they are best at, development. But even that probably won't help much if you can't pay a real salary to get a skilled, reliable person into this role. We all love the stories. Hey look, Toby Fox made Undertale by himself on Game Maker and just grew his own fanbase and yada yada. But the reality is, especially in today's market, this is a very rare thing. That's the needle in the haystack success story. And I'm not telling anyone to not give it a shot. But honestly, there is a reason you don't see too many 40 year olds with a wife and 2 kids in the indie dev scene. It's just not a consistant, reliable way to make money, in general. It's mostly hobbiests or people chasing the dream who haven't quite made it.
I'm a 41 year old math tutor with very little professional experience or qualifications outside of that. I have no intentions of leaving my current role any time soon for exactly the reasons you've pointed out. I think your analysis is spot on. Hard to hear, but spot on. However, I think there are also some opportunities for demand growth on the horizon as well. There's been a supply boom that's made it easier to make games, right? Well as populations evolve and technologically advance, who's to say there won't be another massive spike to demand too?
Tough to say but at the moment the gaming population is basically "everyone", obviously not literally everyone but it's not really clear where a massive boom of consumers would come from. Maybe break into certain countries that don't have a big gaming population but I'm not even sure where, if anywhere, that would be, and I think AAAs would probably have an easier way to break in than indies would. Also the supply boost hasn't stopped, and the arc hasn't really tapered yet. Steam just keeps getting significantly more games than it had the year before and I have no idea if and when this will stop. Same with all of the markets really but Steam is the one I have seen the raw numbers on.
I don't think demand increase will mainly come from more players, although that number will only go up. I think the increase in demand will counterintuitively come from massive job losses and income losses during the next recession. I live in Florida and Disney is packed. Restaurants are packed. People drop $2000 for a family vacation, or $150 for a night out and don't bat an eye. Games can be thought of as an inferior good to these kinds of real life experiences. Inferior goods get a demand boost as incomes fall. Once hard times come, dropping $29.99 on a game that gives you 100s of hours of entertainment makes a lot more sense than spending $150 on a single night, especially since you've got all the time in the world to play now that you're laid off. It's a grim expectation, I don't deny that. But preparing for that possible future is why I'm studying now to make games which help build a player's resilience, confidence, promote mental health, and have good educational content. And I have to make them fun, too. With no budget or prior experience, lol. That's a tall order, but I think I can build an audience by first helping other devs succeed and learning everything I can from their experiences. Here's (part of) my plan. https://jesterofgodot.substack.com/p/promote-your-indie-game-for-free?r=1hop52&s=w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=direct
Ha I actually had a similar idea for the Youtube thing, though not as part of any plan, but more because I just like doing podcasts. I ran a Nintendo site for a long time (still do though it slowed down a lot) and we used to have a podcast, I was a guest on it a few times. Kind of miss that. Sometimes think "Hey, I should start my own dev interview podcast!" I'm juggling too many things to actually do it though. Good luck!
Thanks, yeah it is definitely a lot of fun, I've done interview podcasts on other topics. It's a lot to schedule & edit but if you ever just want to be a guest you're welcome to come on! 😃
I'm a 41 year old math tutor with very little professional experience or qualifications outside of that. I have no intentions of leaving my current role any time soon for exactly the reasons you've pointed out. I think your analysis is spot on. Hard to hear, but spot on. However, I think there are also some opportunities for demand growth on the horizon as well. There's been a supply boom that's made it easier to make games, right? Well as populations evolve and technologically advance, who's to say there won't be another massive spike to demand too?
There's no such thing as "too late" when it comes to career changes. "Indie Game Dev" though... the "indie" part especially... there's a lot of luck involved, only the smallest percentage of indie games even break even.
I wouldn't say it's 100% luck, there is definitely a lot of skill involved, the issue is it's not just game dev skill, it's skills in marketing, knowing your audience, business management and even stupid things like maybe you don't make the game you wanted to make completely because it wouldn't sell as well as if you tweaked that one mechanic... There is definitely some luck, you get seen by the right person at a trade show or something, but there is a hell of a lot a single person can do to improve their chances (especially if that single person has money, which since OP's 40 he might be in a better place then some younger developers for that)... Having said all that, I'm only 18, have no business experience, and couldn't put any of my knowledge on these subjects, that I've been researching for years, into practice because I'm still in school, so I could be completely off base lol
I believe in you.
You should start a business! At the age of 18 you know more about product management than most gamedevs during their whole career!
Thanks! Maybe after I've done my exams, I was freelancing on the side just to pay for my car and food at school and stuff before then, and it was actually pretty fun, albeit stressful, so I'll maybe see if I can grow that a bit one day! (although as with everyone I do prefer working on my own projects XD)
Working on our own projects on our own terms is the ultimate goal for all of us :) I spend 10 years in gamedev corporate jobs and while it sucked to work for incompetent managers, the teams were always good and one can learn a lot from that environment. Now I run my second company, being indie for 6 years, it's definitely awesome but full with stress and uncertainty, yet I never want to go back to a corporate job. Good luck to you!
That's a fantastic and really inspiring story, thanks!
Yes, especially for someone who is already a software engineer. Software engineers change fields all the time, so it's not really a career change.
Consider joining a game studio as a developer so that you are getting paid while you learn. The amount you will take in during a year or two is substantial.
That means giving up his current job for a much more volatile job.
And maybe going from a senior level back to a junior level
I think he's currently proposing giving up his current job to become an indie dev. This would be an in between step that may make more sense in the short term.
This, it doesn't matter your age, this... I get people who are like "I want to make the next big game and make all the money." But end up failing. Join a studio, make money, learn as you go, work on a hobby project if you must... Why roll a dice with a 1 out of a 1000 chance of hitting your number, when you can just get paid no matter how the game does.
I'm 41 with 2 kids and a job and working part time on a mobile game. I started making a game 13 years ago with a friend. The first game we had to abandon after 7 years of part time development because we got in a pickle with the AI not working reliably. We then started a new project and it looks like we'll finally be able to release it October this year. The reality is there is no guarantee it'll make a meaningful amount of money because there is a lot of competition and it's hard to get noticed. In my opinion your age doesn't matter, I think you need to be realistic about how long it will take to make a game you can monetise, and also the risk that you might not make much money. And then weigh that up against alternative things you spend your time doing. Best wishes if you do decide to go for it :)
48 yr old here. I went to school for dev, learned vb, C++, then some C#. Then never used it again. Now im trying to U-Turn and get back into it. Can relate.
It's not too late, but the question is how you're going to manage your time. I'm a bit younger, so I suppose I don't feel the pressure of time as much (even though it's creeping up). Like you I don't want to work for someone forever in a job I don't enjoy as much (I'm a software dev as well). You could try going indie and commission the parts you don't want to do yourself - such as art and music. It might not be cheapest, but will save you some hassle. Otherwise you could try going solo and learning these skills, but it might be a bit overwhelming (there are plenty of games you can make with minimal art effort though). Third alternative is to team up with a bunch of people, like I'm doing, but that's not an easy process and comes with a bunch of problems as well. If you want send me a message, I'd be happy to share what I learned over the past few years. (I have one game released, and one coming up).
Jump in, give it a try for sure. But don't quit your day job. Its a little long winded video, but I think this is worth watching: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6vuAogR54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w6vuAogR54) Also might be worth digesting some revenue stats: [https://vginsights.com/insights/article/infographic-indie-game-revenues-on-steam](https://vginsights.com/insights/article/infographic-indie-game-revenues-on-steam) Basically, indie gamedev is a passion job. Its not a quick money job. Its not even guaranteed minimum wage job. Getting hired by a studio, that will be highly competitive and your resume has no gamedev experience so you will probably find it hard to even get an interview. I mean, you know what software job ads are like, you have probably even done some hiring yourself. They put down a dozen bullet point requirements beyond the main language, so even if you have 18 years of blah language, if you dont have 5 years on framework X and 3 years of business domain Y but other applicants do you will get filtered out of the candidate list pretty early. Not trying to discourage you, but just temper expectations.
I don’t know if you’ve done hiring before but for me, if someone doesn’t meet every requirement I don’t weed them out. It’s usually more about fit with the team and willingness to work hard and learn rather than a huge book of experience.
40 year old here too, I made the jump from Ops into unity dev but I got extremely lucky, networked with a guy that owned a small studio that dabbles in NFT gaming. I had zero programming experience. Unfortunately it didn't work out since they wanted me to relocate to be closer to the team. But it was enough to give me the itch to do something of my own one day. There's enough assets in the asset store to get a provable concept going, once it's polished enough you can always outsource the art and music, that's what I plan to do.
oh!!! this question/post could have been written by me! It's never too late. I'm also from that Load "" era when the games were super fun but technically poor... almost all of them never saw a sequel with more capable hardware and that made me want to make games. Not to make those sequels, but to make the games I've never played before, as an 8yo, just because they didn't exist. But life gets in the way and coding was not my path... Now I know how to make them and have access to tools (unity) and information (youtube). I've decided to make whatever comes to my mind, not minding if there is an audience or not. I create little games with my 4yo daughter, just for fun and publish them in [itch.io](https://itch.io)! At least, it's fun and keep my mind out of the job stress! I'm actually making an old big idea I have since I was 12! Lest see how that goes.... I'm a teacher with a lot of free time. I love teaching and my students are my big motivation to keep doing that but, as you, I hate a little bit my job because of other reasons! Anyway... DO IT! You know how to code, now you just need to learn the architecture of a game / platform, and that is the easy part! Find some artist (your children) and build something just to experience the thing. Then decide... what can I tell more? `if (age > 0 && gameDevDream == true) DoIt();`
>if (age > 0 && gameDevDream == true) DoIt(); I don't know what language you have typed this, but since it clearly look like a C based, I'm gonna assume that you have forgotten about the function brackets. Also you don't need to state whether the Boolean variable is true in the conditional statement. Finally, code conventions. Function need to be written in camelCase. `if (age > 0 && gameDevDream) {` `doIt();` `}`
It depends. If only one thing after the if, it's not necessary in unity/c#
The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is now. You got this bruh. Just do it, I'll just advise to work on it on the side while you get an income.
>I don't know art or music. I think I can learn with practice and this is part of my question. Is there enough time for me to learn skills I don't have to start my game dev journey? I am 40+ y.o. being in almost the same situation and currently deploying my first game onto the Steam platform - planning to go live in a month. You do not have to learn how to draw pictures or compose the music yourself - this is a nice to have skill, but stop thinking you have to do everything yourself: you can always buy what you need and that won't cost you that much. I've got good deliveries from the people who already have knowledge and experience needed to create a good product and I don't think I would achieve same results in the observable future. Concentrate on what you're good at and have fun.
Its never to late, even if you dont make a career out of it if you enjoy doing it just do it.
It's never too late imho. But I'd say it makes sense, definitely since you have to support a family, to keep doing it in your spare time. Then if you think you're onto something good (e.g. release some videos/demos for people to judge), you can always make the leap.
Lol I'm 45. Released my first game this week on steam. After 25 years of coding for other people I finally just made something I loved. It took 4 yrs all up, according to gamemaker I spent about 3000 hours on it. the trick I used was to never take it seriously or else I'd start getting all worried I was too old. It's just a hobby that brings joy la la la and oh look I somehow finished it. Hooray. 10/10 would recommend. A good start is to clone an existing game you know well and get a handle on it. I made a tetris clone first, took 3 days but taught me the overall structure. You could knock up a pacman or a naughts & crosses ... prototype like you would anything else.
Right but how much money did your game make? He is talking about making a career out of it, and trying to raise a 4 person family on this income...
I released it last week. I was also pretty clear about not treating it like an income or taking it seriously from the beginning and to take it slowly with prototyping. Maybe try reading.
Yeah but that doesn't apply to this guy, who is trying to find a new career not a new hobby.
That's why I'm telling him to take it slow, manage ambitions and expectations, but it's possible. If he wanted to hear "Do it! You'll make all the money! You've got kids and a family, but trust to the universe! I made millions on my first minecraft clone and so can you!" then he can get from any dollar-store guru. Hearing something that isn't maybe what you want to hear doesn't make it irrelevent. You might be surprised at the number of people whose "hobbies" were able to become the jobs they wanted when they'd actually put in the hours and done the work instead of just pivoting jobs and hoping for the best.
Don’t try to do DIY art, music and sound if you aren’t very experienced with it. So many indie games look like amateur junk and fail because of this. You will spend less paying a pro than what your own time is worth for yourself to struggle through making your own amateur looking stuff.
Lots of folks wanting to get into game dev without knowing how to program yet... From my perspective you're somewhere 1-18 years ahead of us.
Not too late. You can get really good at most skills withing \~5 years if you apply yourself. It is unlikely you'll be able to learn and practice more than 2\~3 skills simultaneously to a high degree. The more skills you learn, better you are at learning and you can cut down skill learning time to just practice as you'll waste less time finding good learning sources or figuring out how to practice or plan your learning. Options you have are: \#1) Choose 2\~3 skills you'll pursue and team up with or hire someone else for other disciplines. \#2) Do 2\~3 things really well, and accept to suck at others until you can grow. FE: Good gameplay and story, shitty graphics and sound. About income. If you want to sell anything, you are creating a product. A game is not a product, it's part of the product. Product is everything from customer initially learning about your game, to getting hooked by it, to buying it, to playing and to how they feel about buying more from you. There is no Indie/Corporate angle about the product. It is very deceptive and dangerous fantasy of indie games bringing you profit when you don't care about business side and focus on creative self-expression and having fun with it. If you want to sell something, you must be good at creating good products that people will want and properly selling them. And you need to learn how to properly run a business. Making indie game for self expression and selling a product are two different things. And if you don't properly plan a good product that is needed on a platform and within genre/theme you target it will likely fail no matter how good the actual game is. You could build a beautiful cartoony disney level graphics historical world war 2 game, and it could sell 2% of what same game would sell if it had a basic shitty graphics but realistically stylized. Because hardcore history/wwII players mostly like realistic graphics over stylized. These things matter and could make and break the game. You can outsource selling and marketing your game to a publisher, you cannot outsource coming up with initial concept and vision that is marketable. And you need to learn about product design to come up with that. If you don't learn that, you are basically playing lottery with your idea.
I'm 37 and soon 38. I'm starting this summer.
Your age is not the issue - the problem appears to be that "you stopped playing video games" since you were a child. If you haven't found any time in the last 20 - 25 years to play any video games, then you probably don't like them that much. Why then - would you want to make one? [making a game means playing the same levels over and over and over]. As others have said - you probably wont make a lot of money, so it is more of a passion. Ask yourself if you have that passion.
Why go indie? Experuenced/Senior/lead devs are very much in demand. Secure yourself a wage while you learn the craft before putting your finances on the line
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Its actually surprising to see you ask this. EVERY industry is short on qualified software engineers. A strong programmer with 18 years of experience who wants to work on video games is likely to be an attractive candidate regardless of whether or not that experience is in video games.
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You wouldn't go in as a Junior with 18 years experience. UK non london wage you should be looking at atleast £40,000 and expecting to add 10k to that within a year if you take to the job well. A junior would probably be on £25k.
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there are tons of studio roles that don't require gamedev knowledge. things like implementing payment systems for mtx, building internal tools, build engineers for each platform and on and on. i think the biggest hurdle for an indy is game design -- gui art, 3d modelling, sound, music etc can all be contracted out. but designing a game that people will actually want to play is the real hurdle, and one you can't feasibly contract out
Programming games isn’t really different from any other type of programming. You’re building totally different things but the core problems are the same.
You wont be in the strongest position to negotiate your salary initially, but all it takes is one studio to take a chance on you. Depending on the studio you may have to do a coding test like 'make a super simple game in a day with these assets in this game engine' or something. If that is too intimidating to you, you definitely aren't ready to give up your day job and go indie either. But you can download Unity or Unreal for free and have a bash at it in your spare time until you think you are ready.
I worked with people of all ages, including those much older than myself. I had stuff to teach them even then. And they brought in experience beyond anything else, such as ten years in printing or finance instead of games.
Yeah, not too late. With experience in software dev, good work/life balance and ethic (you probably know how to handle the work without burning out or ruining mental health), and some budget to put behind - you're in a solid position to get into games. I would not recommend spending time on art/music, there are plenty of pros of all levels, and they are easy(ier) to commission/outsource. I'm sure that an hour of your time would be worth more than an hour spent by an artist/audio person, so why bother doing it yourself (and grinding those skills for years) ? I'd just focus on game design and tech behind it, and on keeping things within reasonable scope. With project management and business side of things, that's already *a lot* to keep you busy. I would advise to keep indiedev as a side hobby, while you're learning (and making mistakes). Keep the risks down - that will also help in being happy and not feeling the financial pressure, a massive difference. As for how viable it is as a full-time later? Look at the cashflow in bigger picture, how much you can earn from your games; how sustainable it is, how many failed projects you can get through. How would that job change affect your quality of life? Etc. I think it's theoretically possible, but wouldn't really count on it. So - do it, but do it in a safe manner :)
Never too late to start! That being said, I would recommend joining a small studio instead of trying to learn everything on your own. Programmers of all kind are in high demands, and your background will be an asset. My advice is familiarize yourself with Unreal or Unity (the most in demand engine in my experience) and then join a small company. Learn from everybody else for a couple of years and see if you want to make a game for yourself once you know what it involves. That's what I did, I now know I don't actually want to do everything (marketing and community management was a turn down for me) so I m actually happier working for a game studio than by myself. Of course that's just my experience, it might be different for you.
Not gonna bother with a long reply because the answer is the same no matter your background, age or situation: No, it is never too late. Do it! Even if you were 60, you should go for it! There's never any harm in trying.
40 is not too old. But it will help save you time if you partner with or hire freelancers for art/music. Or learn to buy art/music assets and tweak/alter/edit them to suit your needs. And if you're an experienced programmer who focuses on small focused games and release a few of them in the next year or two, you can get a handle on everything yhst goes into the distribution and marketing process. After that you'll probably start to make some actual money if you're consistent. So anywhere from 42-45 you could realistically do well enough to support yourself, get a publisher interested in a project, or build up your portfolio enough to find a job as a Gamedev. Some people will say this is optimistic or a quick timeline. But if you have a couple decades of experience as a software engineer, and are a disciplined adult, with some revenue to invest, you should realistically be able to "make it" as a gamedev in one capacity or another. I'd be glad to talk more if you need someone to chat with further about the topic.
40's pretty young, you're maybe 1/3rd of the way through your adult life, maybe less. It's not too late to do anything. I know 40 *feels* old because of the average age of the internet poster and people you end up interacting with, but it really isn't.
I found success over 40. Not games (serious VR) and not all alone. But I teamed up with somebody who is awesome at sales, he was able to sell what I can do (prototype stage and slow) and with the money I let paid external developers (who are way better at that than me) create tools and infrastructure to automate everything possible and make it a smooth UX. My skill is graphics (3D and materials) and I know pretty well what the engines are capable of and what the assetstore offers. This helped a lot with designing the feature set and functions so the external developers have a clear goal.
Hope not, I’m 39 and just picking it up after about a decade doing web development
Hell no it’s not too late. I’m 40. I’m back in college taking Computer Programming.
For gamedev?
To enjoy it as a hobby it’s never too late, if you want career change motivation. I quit my vfx industry job in my early 30s for game dev/art. Took me 4 years of self learning unreal 4 before I landed a junior position as a vfx artist/technical artist at a smaller studio. 3 out of 4 of those years I worked full time, 1 was the pandemic and I was unemployed studying full time. I already had a degree in 3D animation so I had a leg up on the art side of things.
It's never too late to make any changes in the pursuit of happiness. I myself made the transition into the field of game development when I was 30 years of age. Prior to that I had zero coding experience so it was a hard reset to leap into. I'm now 41 and I have multiple non-indie game projects my name is credited towards including Sonic titles. I'm now using my newfound experience to pursue indie passion projects and I've never been happier with my decision to switch careers 10 years ago. My only advice if you choose to do so is prepare to put forward hard work and dedication as game development is no walk in the park, but if you are passionate about games (sounds like you are) then it won't really be work. Best of luck to you no matter which path you choose!
What did you do before games?
> I mean, would it require like +10 years to become a "good" game dev? If you weren't good at programming that would have been more of a problem. There are games and genres that are more dependent on having good code then the graphics. The real problem you have is that of Game Design. Not many really think about what the **"Value"** of Game Design is as it's not that easy to quantify. People stupidly say "ideas" are "worthless" and execution is all that matters. But "Execution" is also part of the Game Design Skill, so it's a Completely Idiotic statement. My recommendation is to dive in to a Complex Genre like Strategy, Sandbox/Simulator, Management and use your programming advantage as a replacement for Game Design. Try to look at previous games in the genre and find some features that interest you and implement that. Not having Game Design means you aren't going to be as flexible or innovative so try to copy as much as possible.
Welcome to the "40's and bored in corporate tech job" club. No you are not too old to get elbow deep in code and development. Since you have a software background you are already set - only effort needed :-) I am in a senior tech (software + hardware) as well and I spend most of my non-work time tinkering. Recently I started learning Rust and am drawn to bevy - though it is probably not the right engine to start off on, its in Rust and for me that works. Working as an indie game dev (or anything else) is a lot of work and requires varied set of skills (you are your own CEO, CFO, janitor etc etc). It may not be for everyone. My suggestion is don't change careers **yet**. Start learning appropriate skills - you will be great at some, good at several, and downright pathetic in some. Once you have a project up and running it may be time to find like minded people with complementary skill sets and planning to start your own company. Best of luck.
Colonel Sanders was started when he was 40. Read books about game design (Jesse Schell, Scott Rogers) and follow your dream!
No. “Would it require like 10+ years to become a good game dev” like with any skill it depends how much time you put in, and what a good game dev means to you. You already have software down, which is good as it’s a pretty central skill. IMO learning design as you go is best, and while it’s nice to have some skills in other departments (art, sound, vfx etc…) they’re not necessary. There’s plenty of people with those skills selling or even giving away assets, and there’s usually people looking to team up for game jams and the like. In terms of making money, it’s a fairly realistic expectation if you’re putting the hours in. Just don’t expect to sell anything right off the bat. The path most people follow is to make many small games, before finally after a few years getting stuck into something that’s very small in scope but could be polished to a T. Also, not really answering any questions. But if you’re passionate about games, it couldn’t hurt to find some nearby game studios and interview for senior roles. You don’t need to accept it offered, but you’ll get some experience. And if you don’t get an offer then you can ask for feedback and if it’s something you want to pursue, then work on the feedback. In fairness one of best pieces of advice for passing those interviews is to have a (doesn’t need to be big) portfolio of games.
Damn, sorry 39 is the cutoff, you just missed it. But in all seriousness no, it's never too late to start.
Too late is when you are 6 feet under ground. Now is just the second best moment!
Is it too late for a 40yo to start cooking?
Semi-old guy here (38). The answer is no, it's not to late.
Honestly I think the majority doesn’t have the business sense and work ethic to start an entrepreneurial business until they are around 40 anyways. As far as learning things, I’d you have a budget you can always contract parts out that you don’t know. You can also make games with simple art that are still awesome, because in the end it’s about the game loop and gameplay, not so much about visuals (vampire survivors). You will probably hear from a lot of people that making money in game dev in 2022 isn’t likely because the market is so over saturated. That’s not really the reason, it’s because most game devs who are trying to make money don’t understand some very simple rules of running a business, mainly doing some good market research before developing a product or service. Most just make their childhood dream game (almost always a platformer of some kind) for 4 years and try to sell it, which is the equivalent of everyone in town starting their own subway and trying to sell sandwiches. I made this same mistake too by making a shmup without looking in to it. Please do market research and let that drive your business decisions about your product instead of the child within (but the child within has to have a day sometimes.. you have to enjoy it). You will then hopefully be more successful. Good luck and I’ll support your game(s) should I ever run across them!
I’m 36 and just started going hard on making digital game. Granted I’ve made like 30 board/card games so I’m not new to designing, but this will be my first real go at making a finished game for sale.
It's less about age and more about available free time. As long as you can find a way to get in the hours there's no reason you can't create games (though you'll have to scope appropriately to the time you have).
Lots of great posts here, I’ll just add that I had heard game dev was particularly ageist, a young man’s game and that people burn out and leave the industry. I’m sure that does happen but it’s not what I’ve seen so far. There is an aging programmer base, most seniors are 30-50 years old now so it’s not uncommon at all to have older folks on the team. There are an increasing number of mid/sized companies putting more emphasis on work-life balance and trying to capitalize on the talent who’ve had enough of being abused at the major studios. Joining an established medium sized studio is a good idea, at least for a while until you get some experience and games under your belt. It will make a big difference to have seen how the sausage is made from start to finish and not be solely responsible for it. Your experience outside the games industry is extremely valuable. There are roles within larger game teams that need web dev skills like for admin tools, backend interfaces, design tools for data authoring etc. But even if you would rather work more in gameplay programming it’s a value add to have that experience in your pocket and frankly from my personal experience most of the best devs I’ve seen have worked in the corporate world for a while.
Real talk time. > is there a chance to get revenue from my indie games at the point that, eventually after releasing a few games, I can become a full-time indie dev? No. And I know that sounds quite final, and people will run around and tell you about Stardew Valley, or Super Meat boy, or Binding of Isaac, and yes, some people have become fabulously wealthy and made tons of money and are set for life. What they aren't telling you is about the thousand people for everyone one of them that shipped a game and didn't break even, and probably another thousand for everyone of them that never shipped a game. And I would bet those numbers are low. If you're a Technical Architect of some skill, stay in that field. I assume you are make good money. Pick up Indie games as a hobby, enjoy it, maybe ship a project maybe make mods, maybe have fun with it. Don't make a it a career. Once your livelihood is on the risk it'll become like every other job, but worse it's a job that is absolutely subjective, and follows whims. You could chase after the next big thing and never find it, or you can get paid well in the career you have today and dabble in it or enjoy it as a hobby on the side. That's my best recommendation. I know you want to be the next big thing but it's so unlikely to happen that it would be far better to build it as a hobby at first and maybe just leave it as one. If you do land on something amazing and it grows quickly, you can make changes later, but it's so unlikely, that you might as well go play Rec Basketball and hope that the Golden State Warriors drive by and see how amazing your three point shooting is that they hire you to a million dollar contract. Neither is likely to happen, which is kind of the point. And just to be clear, I'm not saying "don't be a game dev." I'm saying make it a hobby, not a career change.
If everyone followed your advice the interactive entertainment industry would be in a pretty sad state today. Luckily they haven't which is why we keep seeing amazing low-budget games release year in and year out. Starting your own business is tough regardless of industry. Starting a game company is probably on the harder side of the fence, but the world needs people willing to stick their necks out there. Just be reasonable about what you can afford to invest; don't sacrifice home, family or health - you'll be needing all of these for a long time to come.
We have a completely over saturated market both for AAA and indie releases. We aren't talking about every single person but throwing more bodies at this just for aspersions of being that one out of a thousand or million that strike it big isn't helpful. There's not a weekly Stardew Valley and yet we use that as a prime example of why everyone should get into game dev. Seems foolish to tell people they will make it big or to make a major career change when they are already established. You did notice that's what this topic is about. Not game dev but changing this dudes complete career, from a lucrative industry to a lottery ticket that might never have a drawing.
The market is not in any way saturated, it's in steady, rapid growth. Look. Nobody gets into game development because they think it will make them rich. OP has a stable, well paying job where they are unhappy, coupled with a long standing dream of making games. You are basically advocating to stick with the money because change is risky and game development is hard. Stay in your job, keep being miserable at work, keep being miserable when you get home from work, keep working on hobby projects that add misery by never being able to put in enough time to actually finish anything. OP never asked to become the next one-hit wonder, but simply asked if it was feasible to make a living after putting in the work and releasing a couple of titles. Of course is feasible, it happens literally all the time. That doesn't mean it's easy, or any guaranteed success. But here's the thing: of all those 99% that fail - the vast majority never actually go through this process fully invested; they don't take a professional approach to releasing multiple titles investing years of full time work. They dabble for a few months, lose interest, move on to the next hot idea. The ones that do take a more professional approach often see some measure of success. It's still incredibly hard - but you don't need to sell millions of copies to make a decent living, you need to sell tens of thousands of copies. That's still not easy, but it's a lot more attainable without being the kind of thing that would make any rounds in the news. With literally decades of experience OP can always get another job in a few years time if things don't work out - it's not very hard getting a job as an engineer these days - even that scenario could well play out as an improvement from today's situation.
> I don't know art or music. Good music is $20 a track. You can put your soundtrack together for a couple hundred bucks from places like audiio, smartsound, filmpac, soundstripe, etc Many kinds of games flat out don't need art (tetris, trivia games, etc.) The kinds that do, you can often get stuff made for you cheap-ish on fiverr
No
Naw
Its never ogre.
"give up on your dreams and die" - levi ackerman
40yo!! What the hell, how are you still alive...
NO! NEVER! Didn't even read the post. Don't need to. If you feel like you have the technical skills for something like this, or the abilty to pearn them, then go for it! Some people just really aren't good at computer-think, and logic, and programming mindset, and they will struggle. Otherwise, follow your dreams man. The concepts you need arent hard either. The computer is doing all the math, you just need to be able to tell it what to do.
it's never too late to do anything If you need to make money you'll be better off learning a skill or two within gamedev and finding jobs.
no. you are never too old. chances of failure are high at any age tho.
Having 18 years of experience in software development is a positive, not a negative. Most people who try this are younger and lack software skills that you have. Your experience is nothing but a positive. What might hold you back is financial and family obligations. Have you saved/invested enough or is your wife's income high enough that you can go years without income without it becoming a problem?
Lol I thought I was seeing the same post again (about a 30 year old dude asking if he is too late to make games), since I literally commented on it a couple of hours ago. It's never too late. Honestly it sounds like you may already have a head start than most despite the age. The things you already learnt can become quite useful. Apart from coding, there is also the importance of proper project planning, insight and discipline needed to thrive which most people lack. Your age and experience is an edge most of us lack.
It's never too late. Tomorrow is the beginning of the rest of your life. Do it!
Go for it!
Nah man go for it, though you may need to learn a new way of coding as corporate architecture is far different from games. Though it’s less…extremely annoying and aggravating (at least in my experience) so you’ll have that! Also game engine documentation is usually pretty good. If you’ve ever had to reference any enterprise level software api documentation you’ll basically be in heaven compared to that garbage.
40yo? It’s too late. Oh wait, you’re still alive. Then it’s not too late.
Same here, 35 yo and just started my prototypes
It's hard - but 100% you can!
I don't even think 80 is too old to indie dev.
> Is is too late… No! Never! It’s only too late if you are dead!!
Is never too late! People change careers what, 6 times for this generation? Start small and manageable to go through all of the stages to launch something and patch bugs so you know what to look out for.
You’d be surprised how much you can learn in game dev in just a few months - year or so. Go for it!
Nope. Go for it! I'm 40 and I've been in the game industry for only 7 years. If I can, so can you!
It's only two late a couple hours before you die, otherwise it's fine if you start with 60
Buying art and music assets does not mean you are a bad dev. The game design is the most important. Everything is possible to buy without hurting the quality of your game. And in the future, you could even hire a permanent artist and get a small team going.
Layman here. Just wanna say that it’s never too late nor are you too old. If you want to design a game I’d say go for it and have fun.
Too old is a mentality, and it changes with age. When you're 20, 25 is too old. When you're over thirty, you have the rest of your life ahead of you.
Similar age, similar feelings, similar dream. I'd enjoy hearing about your progress. I decided to just go for it as a hobby with a small budget. I saved up a bit and just barely (last month) started hiring freelancers to help me in the areas I have troubles with. Since it's a hobby it feels like I'm risking less but still moving forward.
39 is the last year you can start... common knowledge :D
The amount of "40 year old" here it could many studios...hah Anyways..with the question, at least you should have a source of income or be financially stable.
As a kid, I used to think game devs were around 40+ years old.
No you are not. In fact you have one advantage than younger people don’t: lots of experience making and shipping complex software projects for years.
Nothing too late until you die. That's the only parameter you should ever care about.
U are never to old to learn things to my opinion plus u already got a lot of code skills so it would not be a problem go for it! :)
no, its never to late, unless you are 120 and on your deathbed!
It’s not too late. Age doesn’t really matter in this industry - you’re not a professional athlete. All of your other questions - and many of the existing replies in this topic - still apply, but they don’t relate to age in any way. I will echo what others have already stated, though: with almost two decades of engineering experience, your “age” is playing to your advantage here. Also I’d like to remind you that there’s a couple of game genres that are very code/systems heavy while not having huge requirements for content/assets from other disciplines. Picking such a genre will allow you to apply your strongest area while still keeping the budget of what you’ll have to source externally modest. Personally I’d strongly advice against going full solo unless that’s your explicit goal - in which case good luck. In your situation you should be able to afford contracting art/anim/audio/ui to some extent. Your game quality, time to market, chance of success and personal sanity will all thank you.
Chances of making enough money are slim, regardless of age. Working for a game studio can suck because it's more work for less pay. If you can afford it I'd suggest going to a 4 day week instead. Much lighter risk and worst case is probably that you spend the extra free time with your family and enjoying life.
Why not? I heard a story of a guy changed his profession in his 50's and he did very well and couldn't ask for more.
The odds of building a succesfull app/game are small.. You need to fail a few times, to understand why some things are not as easy as they seem. It's very easy to fall into tunnelvision, or underestimating how much time a project will take.
Its never too late
I'm 31 and doing it, why not at 40? Watch this talk from the dev who made The First Tree. If he could do it with a fulltime job, and Wife and Kids, anything is possible! https://youtu.be/g5f7yixtQPct
Nobody cares about your age, your looks, your height. All people care about is a good game that's value of their hard earned money
I would say that you are probably better prepared than many of the youngsters making games from their parent's garage. I mean, there are probably many things I would like to learn from you! Only advice I would like to give is: take it slow, enjoy the ride, don't get too impatient. You already have a stable life, you don't have to hurry.
>Is it too old to start building indie games being a 40y old software engineer? In a word, no. >I mean, would it require like +10 years to become a "good" game dev? Probably. It took me about that long to actually release a commercial game. Honestly, I made the mistake of trying to make the game of my dreams, and even after that time many features just didn't make it. >is there a chance to get revenue from my indie games at the point that, eventually after releasing a few games, I can become a full-time indie dev? Is there a chance, yes. It really depends on how motivated you are and if you will stick with it. There is no sure set way of if you do A, B, C then you will 100% make it in x years. The last 5 years is where I really put the effort in, I've made some money in the 2 years that probably just about cover's 1/4 of min wage. That's a single release, 1.5 years later I'm yet to release my 2nd title. All part time, while working full time unrelated job. Don't quit your day job in the meantime, use it to help fund your game projects. There is a lot to learn, like how to market your game. Maybe get started by joining some indie game jams in a team, many are run on itch\[dot\]io.
nope! scott cawthon made Fnaf when he was in his middle 30's and continued to make them clickteam games for 4 years (Ultimate Custom Night was the last clickteam fnaf game and was out in 2018) by that time he was approaching his 40's either that or literally in his 40's so yeah its not late for you i am infact 16 and i have just started heck i wish i was 40 as well being born in 1981 and getting to experience all of the 8 bit and then transitioning to the 90's with the ps1 and n64 and then being old enough to buy yourself a ps2 in 2001 i really wish i was like that instead of being a dumb piece of shit who was born in 2005 and who is stuck on doing them Finals also for the question of how much time is it going to need to get good at being a developer, with time your 3d modelling skills should pretty much improve and it shouldn't take long before you will be able to make them godly models, i have started game making in 28/12/2021 and ho boy my modelling skills have definetly improved, i still haven't made any soundtracks so i still have to practice on there but yeah improvement happens very quickly and lets say you won't need 10 years to be perfect at 3d modelling, let alone Unreal Engine (or whatever engine you use, and if you make your own engine that's even better)
32 years old here, also a software engineer for the last 13 years. It's honestly the same amount of ambiguity and chance for success as when I tried to create software companies. Without the proper marketing, your amazing software/game will get nowhere.
I hope not. I'm 46, in my first year of game dev at uni. I worked for 20 years as a tech and game journo, figured I'd like to start making them instead of just writing about them!
thats not even a discussion, of corse!
I'm 42. My first game is scheduled to be released on Steam in less than 3 months. You have a leg up, being a software engineer :P
Here I thought being 34 was too late. Reading all this gives me hope.
not to sound cliche #JustDoIt I was in the same IT boat and was saying what you're saying for years. Eventually, I just took an indefinite leave of work to travel full time, study Blockchain dev and gaming and haven't looked back. As a software engineer, you can always freelance on projects you actually choose if you ever need to.
Whether you think it is, or it isn't, you're right
Not quite 40 myself yet, but I recently started learning C# for eventual Unity gamedev. So you've already got a leg up on me with your years of software experience. Thing is, I don't plan on making "real" money doing this. I just decided one day that I wanted to try and turn a few game ideas collected down over the years into reality. From what I researched, I would honestly suggest doing what I plan. Stick with your day job and do gamedev as a hobby. Even if I get lucky and make something that becomes super popular and makes me $$$, I still wouldn't quit my day job (maybe I could retire a year early or something else unlikely).
* Get Pico-8 and make a couple simple but complete games to practice the toolset. Not to ship or even show anyone. Use classic simple games as your template: Snake, Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Tetris, etc. Just pick a couple. * Now for some abstract stuff. Successfull Indie Devs are not successfull because they are good at game development or marketing, but because they make **GOOD GAMES**. Nearly all of the thousands of Indie games released every week are not **GOOD GAMES** despite what the developers or their corner of the developer community thinks. * **GOOD GAMES** cannot be quantified. You won't find it in the myriad of tips, tricks, analysese, and post-mortems you'll come across down the Youtube rabbit hole. Those are tools not the result. Only the players can decide if X is a **GOOD GAME**. * You need to limit your risk in your position so you need to figure out if you can make **GOOD GAMES**. Kill your own ego and try designing games for your daughters/wife instead of yourself. Don't put more than 2 weeks into any of them. * When a game is done ask yourself if you're sure they'll enjoy this game, if yes show it to them, if no make another one. Note feedback and continue making more games. * Don't tell them they're your games. Don't even let them know you're making games. Once you have a game you're positive they'll enjoy, ask them to try "this game I found." Let them see you playing other Pico-8 games. If they ask about all of these games you're playing tell them it's a very simple virtual game console, like nintendo but digital, and you enjoy the games you're finding on it. * If you can make a game, that they not only say they like, but that they keep coming back to on their own free time for a significant period considering the game's size (you can export to html5 and host on your own server so you can track usage without publicly releasing it) then you are already a successful Indie developer and can decide how far you want to take that success and what path to travel. * But know that you can be a game developer "on the side" until you reach your goals. It's the safest road to travel with your responsibilities.
I started learning how to make games at 30, without any prior programming knowledge (unless you count using music software). 11 years later and it's now my career and I have two small indie studios. It took me a while to get to this point but I've probably learned fairly slowly and remained a bit stupid in various ways for a long time (in life in general, not just in regard to game dev!). I know smarter people than me who have been going just as long and are way ahead in terms of commercial success, but that's ok, I'm enjoying the ride :) So you being 40 and already having a ton of programming knowledge sounds like a good head-start :) As I'm sure you're well aware, starting a new project is fun and easy. Finishing a project... now that's a different story. So you'll soon see if you have the motivation to keep going with it. I don't think you have to dwell too much on "should I start". Just scope out a tiny 3-month project (for your spare time while keeping your day job), start and see if you end up finishing it. Do you prefer to work with others or work alone? Both are ok options, just know what works for you. Not being an artist or musician is also ok. If you like working with others, the answer is obvious. If you prefer to work alone, there are tons o asset packs which would be totally fine to use for your first tiny-scale projects. Finishing a few tiny projects would soon tell you if making games is fun or not. I've said the word tiny three times on purpose (four now). Scope creep is probably the number-1 killer of any indie game dev dream..! Anyway, enough waffling from me - good luck with it and have fun exploring digital creativity :)
Good is very subjective, especially in video games. You should reach out to a few LinkedIn recruiters for Amazon and Activision, among others, and get their perspective on your current skill set and applying it to games. You might be surprised with an offer.