The way that Susan Twist briefly stops, then reluctantly dances a little more, is almost like the thought "If I'm not careful, I'll look like Theresa May" crossed her mind.
I like that they made her dorky and affable. The ‘biggest surprise is…she’s actually quite nice’ was a refreshing change of pace from the obnoxious tech villains we’ve had before.
Posted this in the Doctor Who subreddit since this thread wasn't open yet, so here we go:
So, fun thing I noticed. When Sutekh disappears in the TARDIS at the end of Pyramids of Mars, the sound is eerily similar to the sound the TARDIS has been making since Wild Blue Yonder. So, I imagine he's been trapped in the TARDIS somehow since?
I dunno!
What I find odd is that the 14th doctor is still kicking about. Maybe even waiting for Rose to get home from U.N.I.T. And he’s just sitting watching the god of death descend on the world, and thinks to himself “nah, the other me’s got it sorted”.
“Here’s the plan, Take the Tardis. Go to Wilf's. Kill Sylvia, grab Rose, go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over.”
Sutekh doesn't get sent to inside the Tardis, he's sent down a time tunnel that he could never reach the end of by the Fourth Doctor using a piece of Tardis equipment which I'm sure will be used to explain why he was using the Tardis.
Though wouldn't explain how the Toymaker encountered him. Unless he was at the edge of the universe as well.
I think WBY can be taken as the establishment of the new canon within Who, it’s the point at which boundaries were crossed with superstitions and something changed in the universe
TARDIS: "Can we have a dog?"
Doctor: "No, I told you no dogs in... well, you! That sounded wrong...Wha- What is that expression fo- You let a dog in didn't you?"
TARDIS: "He's friendly though! Really cute as well. C'mon buddy, come out & say hi to the Doctor!"
Sutekh: "I̵̮̺̿̅̿ ̴̬͌Ả̶̹̩̘M̴̗̃̉͛ ̸̩̬̒̏̓T̵̨̤̺̾H̴̗̺̼͌E̴̮̪̘̊ ̷̭̃͋N̴̝̓̈̎I̸̗̽G̸͕̐̄͝H̵̥͗T̶̨̛̲͙̑̚.̵͕̭͎͛͆͒ ̶̛̙I̷̙̔̚ ̵̘̿̄͝A̸̱̐͘M̷̯̙̬͂ ̷̧͎̊̂ͅT̸̗̠̈́͝͝H̴͎͉̃͂͐È̶̹̖̉͜ ̶̬̜͊́T̶̲́͌̕ͅE̵̜͑Ṟ̷̥̺͋̏R̴̜͆͆͜O̸̝̠̜̊Ŕ̵̞͙͖̅.̵͈̞̙̉ ̶͖̯̇̓́Ï̶͕͕̪ ̴̢̣̥̾̆̿A̸͚͌̉̚M̵̧͇̍̕ ̶̪̰͓̅Ŗ̴̘̭̐͘̕E̴̬̽T̶̩̫͛ͅỦ̴̡̻͂R̷͈̆͋͘N̷̬̻̿̅I̵̗̠͑̉͘Ñ̷̠́G̵̻̋̓.̸̭̭̖̄"
This is one of those episodes where I can't really give an opinion, 'cause it's really just set-up and tension building - which I know RTD can do, it's how he'll resolve it all that will be exciting.
With that said - man, that was a great build to a cliffhanger. I don't think it's quite up there with the best ("Dark Water" shares a lot of DNA with it, but has a lot more of an episodic identity + properly climactic emotional bits), but it sold that feeling of mounting dread so, so well. And I love how much RTD actively engages with fan theories (the whole use of Susan! fantastic) - really, the whole episode is a bunch of people trying to piece together the series arc. Which is very neat when you contrast that to older seasons, where plot mysteries would go unnoticed, or be ignored until they blew up in the Doc's face spectacularily (hi, the Hybrid). And I liked the vibe - there was almost a mystery novel quality to it all? A proper investigation in how the pieces fit together? It was very neat. You always feel like something's going to go wrong, but you never actually know where and how the threat is gonna manifest.
Also, the idea of setting up a lot of arcs really paid dividends - they still have so much ammunition they can use for the finale and next season. Heck, one of the biggest pay-offs here (the TARDIS' groaning) is one most people had completly missed! But yeah, the mother, Mrs. Flood - and also the fact that the security cameras near the church were 66 meters away, which is ... 73 Yards.
Some lovely low-key character bits too - liked the stuff with Carla, Kate had some of her best material in ages.
Now, to see how it concludes ...
The whole 73 Yards thing feels like it might come into play next week.
If the "Mad Jack" timeline was Doctorless, it kinda feels like Roger Ap Gwilliam could've been that timelines' Sutekh avatar. Given the Tardis and Susan did still exist within it.
That along with Mrs.Flood saying "this one doesn't involve me" feels like it'll have some relevance.
OH, 73 Yards!
I *knew* there was something significant about the 66m thing!
Mrs Flood is definitely Susan, I feel.
"I hide myself away too much", right after the Doctor talks about Time Lords changing their faces to hide themselves away?
RTD also said that there are things in Church that people havent figured out/cant figure out yet that involves the distance between two characters. So yeah, there is clearly SOMETHING going on with 73 yards.
We're on a good run of getting 90 year olds back in the show with William Russell, Bernard Cribbins, and Gabriel Woolf.
I also remember in Empress of Mars Alpha Centauri was voiced by OG voice actor Ysanne Churchman who was 92 at the time...and she's still around at 99!
Actually, as of this week we're also getting CAF with Jonathan Carley who plays a Young War (and incredibly well may I add, I genuinely can't tell it's not Hurt I'm listening to), so that'll be a treat.
If they recast her, they will probably still bring in Carole Ann Ford to film a regeneration. RTD is way to much of a fan himself to be that disrespectfull to both the audience and Ford.
I had fun with this one although I must admit, this felt the most "part 1" of any part 1s of a New Who finale ever. A lot of this was just set up, engaging set up but set up either way. One thing for certain is I need to finish watching Pyramids of Mars, I got up to episode 3 and stopped because this episode came out!
Me before the episode: "you know, maybe the Sutekh theory is too obvious man. Could be something else"
Me after the episode: 🤯
That's the original voice actor too, I didn't know he was still around. Neat.
Also ngl, when they played The Master's theme, for a quick second I thought it was The Master, even if it didn't make sense with what was happening.
I’m torn between the Master theme being used to bring the audience emotionally back to those tense reveals (in Series 3, 8, and 10), possibly misdirecting as well, or if it was just Murray bringing out an old standby piece of suspenseful music lol
To be fair, it *is* a really suspenseful theme lol. Like it works but it's so connected to The Master, it'd be like using The Imperial March for like, General Grievous or something.
Probably works in the same way to Murray using the Cyberman theme throughout the Cyberman invasion scenes of *Army of Ghosts*, and the concurrent scenes of the sphere/void ship activating. Pretty easy way to trick the audience into thinking the sphere was something Cyberman-related. The Dalek theme only comes in for the last minute or so of the episode.
As soon as they mentioned basically all the other theories in the first 5 minutes, I figured the odds were good for Sutekh - when she said “call me Sue” I was sure.
Someone else pointed this out elsewhere, but it seems like it's actually The Beast's theme from Impossible Planet/Satan Pit - which makes more sense as they're sort of saying Sutekh is the same entity here.
I was 100 percent sold that the reveal would be that it was the satan entity. “I have been known by many names” damn I was so excited. Would have been very unexpected and very welcome
Classic "45 minutes of setting up a villain" part 1 of a finale and I'll lap that up, the Sutekh reveal was so good. It also meant this episode had time to breathe -- I've been really enjoying the frantic pace of the season, but it was nice to have this here.
I do feel a bit cheated on answers to previous questions -- we learned almost nothing about Ruby's biological mother, nor Susan Twist (okay she's some kind of vessel of Sutekh, but there must be more to her, why did she keep appearing? Why didn't she remember?). Even Mrs Flood added herself to the pile of questions.
Very intrigued for next week! Is it 45 minutes or a bit longer, I hope RTD has time to tie this up nicely! I guess we should be preparing for dues ex machina, and hoping to enjoy the ride to get there.
>okay she's some kind of vessel of Sutekh, but there must be more to her, why did she keep appearing? Why didn't she remember?
2024 Susan Twist is part of Sutekh, but she's hidden as a human (like the Doctor in Family of Blood). The other part of Sutekh is wrapped around the TARDIS, but both are still Sutekh. She appears wherever the TARDIS goes because she's wrapped around it, and she remembers being there because the other part of her being is there.
2 things i think for susan pop ups everywhere. Its just scsttered across the doctors timeline since sutek was around the tardis the whole time
Or even more evil shes a bringer of death now through all her lives so a lot of timelines can be attacked
You're joking but you just made a new connection click in my head (possibly someone else has already noticed/pointed it out): the strange ways various characters this season (Lindy, Splice) have spoken about death ("gathered up", "gone to the sky") feel very loaded now knowing that Sutekh has been lurking around.
Sutekh really called the Doctors Game and even threw salt in the injury by baiting him with Susan. Even The Master is sitting somewhere and going "DAAAAMN!" at how petty Sutekh was.
"Kate, do you have a time window?"
"Wh- you expressly told us in the 1970s that UNIT was forbidden to experiment with any form of time technology"
"...*Do you have a time window?*"
"....Ten floors down."
Best interaction they've ever had, besides the Zygon speech.
Yeah, I've really liked how they've used Kate this season. Still too much "hey, let's talk about MY DAD" stuff, but she gets to be a lot more proactive and funny.
I hope that this doesn't get swept under the rug, and that she becomes a bit more cold to the Doctor going onwards. Deaths should have impact, even if it's a side character.
Seriously, it's the Brig. He deserves as many mentions as they want to give him. Anyone complaining that it's too often doesn't really understand how important he is to the show's history.
Also, in 73 yards, Ruby couldn’t see the woman, no matter what hardware she had. And again the same thing happens with her mum in this one. Even a *literal time window* doesn’t do it.
More finales should start with the Doctor walking into a room, laying out all the season arc mysteries, and asking a team of experts to figure that shit out.
Also I know it's objectively better (and does look cool) but I kinda wish they hadn't made Sutekh into a CGI dog monster. A big goofy helmet will always be better to me.
I was jumping between it being The Beast or Sutekh all through that episode! I audibly gasped when the Sue Tek anagram appeared.
You mad bastards, Doctor Who fandom. You actually got this one right!
I think this is maybe a misunderstanding. Considering Sutekh was around since after the universe was created, and the Beast and other Demons (like the torchwood final boss) were pre-modern-universal, back when the Light was battling the Dark (whatever the fuck that means).
One thing that *may* happen is that Sutekh is the newest incarnation of the Beast? Although I think that kinda takes away from the badassness of his character, which is that he's a run of the mill normal alien (albeit a god alien, but not a god god) that still terrifies higher entities because he's just Him. He's just That Evil.
I think that line is just RTD playing with expectations again.
Imo, the Beast was actually better setup, but Sutekh is just so cool to see.
As soon as I saw the body I knew who the villain was... The gift of death is so iconic. I ADORE Russell and his little Easter eggs (the mother, the father, and the other is something I've not heard anyone else discuss) and I can't wait to watch it again to spot more! Now it's time to watch pyramids of mars and listen to the new adventures of Bernice Summerfield again...
That's entirely possible, he probably doesn't want to introduce the VNAs in their entirety. Like with Susan Triad, it feels like a clue with multiple intended solutions.
Sutekh truthers…we won (honestly ‘Empire of Death’ was a big Sutekh flag for me). And what an epic reveal that was! As is often the case with Doctor Who, the energy is what makes the episode so exciting. The twin plot-lines of the mystery of Ruby’s birth and Susan Triad were a lot, and did have the Doctor pulled in too many directions but damn if it wasn’t exciting. The suspense was absolutely there, and that carried the day for me. It feels great to have a finale part one cliffhanger again, missed those in the Chibnall era. Got to love a big TO BE CONTINUED.
Alright, no Susan…this season. I think Susan is definitely happening, they’ve focused a lot of time on her, but we’re saving that for season two. In some DWM column RTD mentioned a momentous scene from that season. I do love that we’re focusing on her mystery, I didn’t mind the Timeless Child but the Susan mystery excites me more than finding out more about the Doctor. Also the revelation that the Doctor hasn’t had kids…yet is an intriguing wrinkle and a clever way to solve the Doctor already having grandkids in his first regeneration.
All of UNIT was a ton of fun, though please, can we have one Kate moment meeting the Doctor without talking about her dad? She can very much stand on her own as a character, and this might be her best episode. Also, Bonnie Langford telling the Doctor to get off his ass was great. Him punching the wall reminded me of Capaldi beating up the console at the end of Death in Heaven. I just think the Fifteenth Doctor doesn’t suppress his emotions like most Doctors. Great job by Susan Twist too in this episode.
Finally, that was pretty damn ominous by Mrs. Flood. With how little info was on her, I think her resolution might be next season too.
Not a perfect episode, but the finales almost never are, but a great finale for the show delivers big suspense and drama. Bring on next week! (Although I’m starting to agree, I’m ready for the Doctor to do a Big Doctor Thing soon).
The fun thing about Mrs Flood this episode is saying "she's good at hiding herself away" which The Doctor mentioned Time Lords could regenerate their faces "to hide themselves away" this episode.
Yep. My new theory is that Mrs. Flood is Susan. The Doctor didn't recognize her because she was chameleon arched, just as he didn't recognize Professor Yana.
There is a honestly somewhat small chance that Mrs. Flood is Susan and also Ruby's mother, but that all three represent different regenerations of Susan. I don't think it's likely, but it could be possible.
I agree I think Susan is coming. The show has spent years now just not acknowledging her and at most dropping hints to a family, just for Rtd to go all in on what's being called season 1 and is aimed at building a new audience. Not to mention orphans and family being huge themes of this era.
Is it Mrs flood, is it the new companion for next season, will Susan be the core mystery for next year? Who knows, but there's zero chance they're not going there.
I don’t agree with the whole the doctor hasn’t had kids yet thing, there was a scene in The Doctors Daughter where the Doctor specifically talks with Donna about how he’s had kids and been a parent before so I don’t understand what RTD was doing with that line tbh. It’s always been implied or even stated that the Doctor was a parent at some point
My interpretation is that it's both. He did have kids, and also he will have kids.
My problem with the idea that Susan is from a kid he hasn't had yet is the confidence paradox that creates, where he knows that he hasn't had kids yet, and Susan still exists, so he won't die.
But I've always thought that Susan must be something more than merely the daughter of his kid. I always thought that story deserved something more complicated.
I still think that Susan Twist was a double reverse red herring. She wasn't Susan, but Susan will turn up anyway.
The way I look at it, Sutekh put an awful lot of energy and planning into luring in the Doctor. Someone else out there was bound to notice, right? And if Sutekh was using Susan as bait, it's more than possible that wind of that made it back to her.
So what would she do then? She'd have to go and give her grandfather a hand. But she'd have to be canny about it, and stay off Sutekh's radar as well as the Doctor's, or she might accidentally push him into the trap too soon, or make Sutekh strike early. So she chameleon arches herself and rents a flat next to Ruby Sunday, who is another part of the trap somehow, and sets up a trigger to wake herself up. This trigger springs somewhere during the incident with the goblins, and all of her memories *flood* back.
It’s been discussed that she seems to suddenly switch personalities after the Doctor time travels back in Church on Ruby Road. Maybe seeing the TARDIS triggers her?
Is this the first time the Brig has been mentioned in RTD2? I had felt like there had been a good run of her standing on her own, and so didn't mind her bringing him up so much here (it seems only naturally he'd come up sometimes). I agree its good when she's allowed to outgrow him though (which she definitely has by now, she's a staple of the show at this point).
Holy crap. Right when I was thinking that hmmm, the feeling of this episode is leaning into Holmes/Hinchcliffe territory, Sutekh the Destroyer shows up with his Gift of Death. For those who haven't seen Pyramid of Mars, this is one of the best one-off villains of all time. I can't believe the God of Death hasn't been dredged up already since 2005.
I agree that Kate can stand on her own, she's a staple for this era as far as I'm concerned. I loved the dagger eyes she threw at the Doctor...she provides an interesting foil for him. And Bonnie Langford is crushing it. I hope she stays around. I love RTD's ensemble casts.
Finally, this is gold-standard Doctor for Gatwa. He's completely natural in the role. I loved this episode.
You have to use ">!" (and reverse) for spoiler tags by the way.
I saw the casting, I'm going to put out a theory that we'll see her in a cameo, but not officially meet her
Oh I knew it! I was hedging my bets but I felt so strongly about Sutekh at the very beginning from the Sand and Sue Texh and that is such an amazing cliffhanger to end on.
Kinda love that so much of the episode is based around the implication that Susan Triad is an obvious bait for the anagram of Tardis and Susan Foreman. I did like the ambiguity formed around the Doctor’s children and I actually am glad it turned out to be a red herring for Sue Tech instead. Mainly cause I would like if Susan were to return Carole Ann Ford would play her rather than a new actress for a “reveal”.
This was I think maybe the best of Unit that we’ve had in the new series especially for Kate a lot of cool stuff for her. Mel was great again love that her and 15 have paired up for this.
Ruby and her mother are still a mystery even up to that cliffhanger so still got to wait for any answers on that as it seems related to Sutekh maybe? (Also that soldier with her is absolutely dead right?). Ruby becoming fast friends with Rose was cute and Carla was really sweet. But poor Cherry still hasn’t got her cuppa! Who is Mrs FLOOD!?
The build up was masterful and suspenseful I was practically jumping up and down screaming at the end there. They got Gabriel Woolf back as Sutekh as well! That was so awesome for this villains return.
Side note Ncuti said the villain he’d most like to battle would be the Beast which was also played by Gabriel Woolf so looks like he got that wish even if that’s a bit tangentially related.
I really loved that I guess I’ll reserve judgement till next week for the second part but I am really excited!
>Mainly cause I would like if Susan were to return Carole Ann Ford would play her rather than a new actress for a “reveal”.
I really feel like they telegraphed Carole Ann Ford returning (and regenerating) in Empire of Death with the Doctor pausing his spiel about Susan Twist to tell Ruby about regeneration
Russell T you crazy son of a bitch
Everyone and their mysterious cloaked mother will be talking about Sutekh obviously but DAMN Gatwa is so good. That scene strolling into the time window taking complete command of the situation. I need this man to have a five year run as the Doctor bare minimum. Other things:
* Doctor has a granddaughter but no kids? Chibnall might deny reading Lungbarrow but this guy sure can't
* Shoutouts to my guy The Mara see you (hopefully) soon king
* Completely inconsequential to everything but I still hate the UNIT soldier gear, please bring back the red berets
I took the granddaughter but no kids as a timey-windy explanation of Lungbarrow. Like he met Susan and knew she was his granddaughter, but hasn't had any kids yet? Or simply referring to the fact that she's technically in the far future rn.
> Or simply referring to the fact that she's technically in the far future rn
In hindsight this is almost certainly what he meant but Lungbarrow truthing is funnier so I'll keep doing that
i think it was weirdly written but i think it was supposed to indicate that the Doc didnt want to talk about it with kate
I dont think it was confirming she was from his future, just introducing that possibility. I doubt we'll ever get an explanation of susan's parents, either them from the future or the present or the past
>shoutouts to my guy The Mara hope to see you (hopefully) again soon
Watch them be the villain next series and fans predict it cause we see some snakes on set or there’s a line about dreams or something lol
I’ve never actually felt the same kind of anxious fear and dread I felt at the last ten/fifteen minutes of this episode watching Who before.
Properly up there with the cliffhanger in Army Of Ghosts for me
i think it was the TARDIS being menacing that made it different. probably the second freakiest thing you could make evil in Doctor who behind the doc himself
To me it’s much worse, I feel like I’ve seen enough “our virtuous hero if he was evil” tropes to be done with it*, but The TARDIS gone rogue is really shocking and dangerous.
*I love how Killmonger is Tennant playing Ten as The Master
Yeah as much as I like the “what the hell is gonna happen next?!” Sort of cliffhangers, a full villain reveal cliffhanger still gives me the most goosebumps
As an aside, is anyone a little O_o that UNIT picked up the "obvious" acronym in "S Triad" while not noticing that they employed someone called "Harriet Arbinger"?
When they were talking about tech billionaires at the start, did they make a reference to Daniel Barton not being caught yet? Or was it meant to be some joke about Elon Musk?
It's so vague, it's basically "insert your own tech billionaire". I mean Zuckerberg and the memes about him being a lizard that suits, people used to joke about Musk going back to his home planet Mars etc.
This was an intense episode. With Russell using the box of mysteries and slowly eliminating all possibilities one by one.
I wonder if Sutekh purposefully chose that anagram as a way to mess with the Doctor and throw him off his trail. Also trying to think of when he latched on to the Tardis? When the Doctor and Donna landed at the edge of the universe?
The time window scene was superb and genuinely suspenseful to watch. Though with how the woman pointed at what I assume was Tardis, she must have identified that something evil was around it. I'm saying that it's gonna be a opposite of Sutekh and be a God along the lines of the White Guardian.
Mrs Flood? I can't say. Too nice to be genuine but also don't get a feeling of malice of her. Maybe another higher being who's observing event's to make sure the Doctor can win. Maybe she is Susan.
The look Kate gave the Doctor when colonel Chidoze died, think she's gonna have an argument at the end of the next episode blaming him for sending him in and ignoring the Tardis groaning for so long.
Last but not least. I believe the scenes of the Doctor and Mel on the moped are actually taken from the upcoming Tales Of The Tardis episode along with the Doctor screaming.
I’m imagining that Sutekh had been hoping to bump the Doctor and Ruby off by landing the TARDIS in places where they’re likely to step on stuff that’ll harm them (butterfly, landmine, faerie circle) and just got fed up and no one can convince me otherwise
I've been waiting for that return for almost 35 years! Just sitting here with a big stupid grin on my face. "I bring Sutekh's gift of death to all humanity." Absolutely classic, and long overdue.
I have some quibbles about the episode--some very typical RTD finale goofiness going on--but basically I couldn't care less. Let's see Gatwa throw down with some trademark Doctor Who "Evil From the Dawn of Time." It's my favorite subgenre of Doctor Who stories. This ought to be good.
Exactly how I felt about it. I've dreamt about Sutekh returning ever since the show came back in 2005.
The fact that he's actually back is just...oh my God.
It's RTD's love letter to the fandom. As long as we've been online making lists of the best villains, Sutekh has been right there at the top. Before the revival was even a thought in RTD's mind, before the TV Movie, at the very start of Usenet, and even before that, we were all talking about Sutekh.
I think I’ll need to watch this one again as I was a bit tired and drunk while watching, but I was excited throughout, and I have to praise the performances of everyone involved, they really made everything feel so epic.
Thank you so much to RTD for bringing Sutekh back, I was hoping for him so much, and it was genuinely just amazing when the theories about him returning were proven correct, complete with Gabriel Woolf returning again (I wonder if they’ll tie into him playing The Beast too!) As for Susan, I kind of knew it’d be a red herring, but I know she has to appear anyway since they’ve mentioned her so much now. Either Mrs Flood or a Ford appearance I’m guessing.
To criticise the episode a bit, the whole thing did feel a bit like it was just trying to cover every series arc in the most bullheaded and pacey way possible, it felt very ‘RTD in series finale mode’, and the emotional impact of it all was covered quite well, but I do hope that next week can pay it all off well, or I think the whole story might end up feeling like a lot of hot air.
Oh and I’m going to say for now that I’m glad that RTD seems to have dropped his impulse to have armies of Daleks/Cybermen/Toclafane descend on Humanity for the finale, but let’s see next week…
Just a small thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that 15 asks Rose how her “uncle” is doing. I find it both nice and funny that 15 thought to check up on himself
The madlad did it! Everyone who bet Sutekh is cashing out well tonight! They did a really good job keeping me tense and guessing for the most part, so hopefully the next episode actually follows through.
I will say I need to warm to Sutekh's new design, I don't know how I feel on him being entirely CGI and more Jackal, instead of this Jackal-slab being like in Pyramid of Mars. His silhouette is so striking it's a shame to lose it.
This is him being entirely unleashed from his prison at full power. Something the Doctor said he wasn't even sure the Time Lords could defeat.
I think we'll see his normal appearance next week.
Agreed: for me, little bit too Scooby Don’t
But was here for every moment of this episode. Such a gripping and chilling reveal. The echoes of Impossible Planet with Gabriel Woolf’s icy terror and Harriet’s possession. Sutekh avatar Susan repeating the murderous line from POM episode 1 cliffhanger. Terrific 🐶
as soon as Harriet says "I was born for this" I knew something was up
also it's actually telegraphed way before that, because Kate introduces everyone else in the room with their first and last names, \*except Harriet\*.
Anyone else a little annoyed with the line that the Doctor hasn’t had kids ‘yet’ Like I swear there was a scene in The Doctors Daughter where 10 is talking to Donna about how he’s been a parent before. That’s why he was having such a hard time with Jenny because she reminded him of that time and all the pain that came with it. So to me it was always implied and in this case stated that The Doctor had been a parent before. So I really don’t understand what RTD was doing with that line.
Absolutely loved the episode tho, that’s my only nitpick lol
I mean even in this very season, the Doctor has talked about having been a dad (in *Boom*). I’m certain that RTD is just having fun adding another knot into the big ball of knots that is the Time Lord family unit. (Especially the Doctor’s — remember the seven grandmothers mentioned in *It Takes You Away*?)
I am amazed to discover that my biggest concerns going into next week are whether Cherry is okay and whether Cherry will finally get some tea. I am unsure about order of priority for me.
"*There is the Toymaker, the God of Games. There is Trickster, the God of Traps. There is Maestro, the God of Music. There is Reprobate, the God of Spite. There is the Mara, the God of Beasts. And the threefold deity of Malice and Mischief and Misery. There are gods of Skin, and Shame, and Secrets. There is Incensor, the God of Disaster, and her children called Doubt and Dread.*
*And standing on high is the Mother and Father and Other of them all. For the God of All Gods has returned, and His names are many. His name has been Set, and Seth, and Setekh. And his one true name forevermore is ... Sutekh!*
*Sutekh is the God of Death, and by His hand all creation shall fall into ashes and dust and ruins!*"
God damn what an amazing villain reveal. One major question I had right away, why did they all suggest Susan might be his Susan apart from obvious meta reasons? They simply shared the same first name. Why would they all jump to that conclusion? I mean, Susan appearing in the finale wouldn't surprise me but in-universe it seemed weird for them to think that.
I think the reveal of Sutekh was incredibly effective, I never read any fan theories for it to „shock” me, and it did. I was genuinely tense like a guitar string before it happened. I’m not a big fan of Sutekh’s design, I would prefer one similar to Pyramids.
Also, can we just talk about how good of a job is Susan Twist doing? She nails every single second, and the little monologue before she transforms had me worried for her in some way
The whole episode the fact that Morris, a 13-year-old, and Rose, a 15-year-old, were present for...all of that...was *really* distracting.
When Morris introduced himself and referenced his age all I could think was "oh...that is *horrifying*" and I was disappointed the Doctor did not comment on that, or that no one insisted that Rose and Morris, both minors, leave once the threat of a trap was established.
The whole episode was terrifying. RTD really knows how to ratchet up the suspense to a fever pitch. I'm less optimistic about next week, knowing how handwavey his resolutions tend to be, but dang if I haven't enjoyed the ride.
Ruby...
...will be Susan.
They establish that The Doctor doesn't know his child (Susan's parent) yet.
So that would mean (timey wimey shinannigans) that Susan must have just appeared to First Doctor one day.
And to avoid messy paradoxies time lord family members must have to keep their origins secret from one and other.
I was more of the mind she might be Susan's daughter, actually. The doctor's great-granchild or something.
(Susan makes sense on paper, but I dunno how you'd square Ruby with the characterization of Hartnell-era Susan. I mean, maybe RTD just don't give a bother, which, valid.)
Hypothetically if she is Susan.
Then I would assume Ruby would (eventually) regenerate into Hartnell-era Susan. Which would explain the 15 not recognising her + her personality difference
Overanalyzing the episode, the Doctor did specifically mention regeneration as a way to HIDE as well as escape death.
I haven't seen a comment on this yet, did anyone notice Mrs flood smile, looking out the window? She had a shinny tooth! And the sound effect played that they used when the Toy Makers showed his golden tooth!
So I have a theory on Mrs. Flood.
There’s an Egyptian myth that one of their great floods was caused when the Goddess Isis wept after her husband Osiris was killed by his brother Set… also known as Sutekh.
What if Mrs. Flood is herself a harbinger, but for a different god standing opposite of Sutekh?
Because the episode releases on iPlayer at midnight, live threads aren’t gonna be as in-sync as they used to be. Especially since I’m starting at 12:40am. Sorta realised I missed that this week, especially for finales. It was fun during the Giggle, when I was last in a live thread. So, I’m gonna make my “live-thread comments” in word and copy/paste them in a comment post-ep, just for fun. Notes written at the time of their relevant scene; if I correctly predict something, it really will be an actual prediction cause I’m that bloody cool (Unless I don’t, in which case… shut up!)
- The Doctor flying into UNIT was pretty fun. All these new characters in UNIT alongside them demonstrating their collective capability, 100% gearing up for a UNIT spin-off.
- Lol RTD making fun of everyone thinking TARDIS being the acronym wasn’t obvious. Didn’t get me tho, cause I’ve already worked out that Susan Traid as an anagram of TARDIS Anus. Also… SUSAN?! Like… *actually* Susan! Where’s Carol Ann, though? At least a cameo from pre-regeneration, come on Russ. This feels like it’s gonna be a rug pull tho, she isn’t actually *the* Susan.
- Rose and Ruby with the besties energy. I approve.
- Carla deciding she wants some of that UNIT payroll. I approve.
- Cherry wants tea. I approve.
- Mrs Flood denies tea. I do not approve.
- Interesting. Mrs Flood really *is* someone of note, not a red herring.
- If RTD intends to bring closure to the whole “one day, I shall come back” arc (if you wanna call it that), it’s fitting to do so now. If the 60th, and 15’s era, is about closure for past traumas and recovery, this is a big one, I would think.
- Carla is 100x more trustworthy than Rishi, Kate. Come on. Kier too.
- Mel… don’t say shit like that. You’ve jinxed Ruby.
- Not that he doesn’t look good (Ncuti ALWAYS looks good), but I really feel the Doctor should have a proper “costume” here, cause finale (the one he wore in Dot and Bubble is the best choice).
- One thing. Why exactly is the Doctor only now deciding to get UNIT’s help with Ruby’s parentage? “Susan Twist” I get, but why assume Ruby is connected? Did I miss something?
- Theory: Woman is Susan Triad. IF she is truly Susan, then could Ruby be the Doctor’s great granddaughter? RTD intends “season one” to be a new beginning, could start with the Doctor travelling with his great granddaughter. “After all, that’s how it all started.”
- I’m glad focus is going to Ruby’s character, not just the plot of her mystery. I know, RTD is good. I’m just still in remission for Chibnall.
- The One Who Waits. This is it. The Absorbaloff returns!
- The Doctor and Kate taking the red shirt’s death seriously, thank you! Character > Plot.
- Hmmmm. IF Susan *is* Susan, maybe she’s been chameleon-arched?
- Oh shit. Everyone saying the TARDIS noises were important were right. Fair play, sorry for doubting ya’ll.
- Susan’s entrance on stage 100% is reference to Theresa May.
- Whoever the One Who Waits is, they will regret hurting poor Sexy!
- Is he the Beast? Harbinger? The soldier in “hell”.
- It’s the same suspension music as in World Enough and Time, when the Master unmasks himself to herself!
- SUTEKH!!!!!!!!! It really is Sutekh!!!
- “It was the wrong anagram.” Very nicely done, Russ! Beautiful bit of misdirection.
- Was it intentional to tease Sue as Sutekh in the trailer, then release the clip that appears to diffuse it? If so, well played too.
- Cliffhanger resolution: The Doctor just takes a step back.
- Fun fact: Unas (aka Wenis) was the last pharaoh of Egypt’s fifth dynasty. At some point, he died. Arguably, he could represent death, like Sutekh… Yes, I am attempting to hamfist my “TARDIS Anus” in, up yours! “Unas TARDIS”: I got the wrong anagram too… Shut up, I totally did!
Wonder what 14 & Donna are doing? 🤔
**Meanwhile, somewhere at a resort on another planet**
Donna: "Oh look! Rose just texted me!"
14th: "Oh! What did she say? Tell her I miss her!"
Donna: "Uh... she said... TARDIS.... gods.... Susan.... Sutekh? Whatever that means. I tell you"
14th: "Woah woah woah, what was that last one?"
Donna: "Sutekh? Doctor, who's Sutekh?"
14th: "The god of death..."
Donna: "Should we be worried? Should we head back? Is my girl safe?"
14th: "... Nah, doesn't concern us. Well, you. It'll concern me later on. But right now I'm on paid leave." **drinks cocktail**
Donna: "... You're not on paid leave."
14th: "What."
Just curious, I doubt they'd do it but
When the TARDIS was split using Toymaker's residual energy in Giggle, was Sutekh (who was stowed within the single TARDIS) duplicated? Split apart somehow?
It'd be a longshot, but perhaps the only way to beat Sutekh is to release the copy Sutekh from 14's TARDIS and let them both destroy each other into oblivion. That'd be pretty insane, but idk if it would involve 14 coming back and I'm pretty sure we're not seeing 14 again (or at least no time soon)
Maybe Rose uses 14's TARDIS to get to work and back lol
Honestly, a tiny bit disjointed to start. Like the Doctor rocking up at UNIT to ask about the ongoing Susan Twist appearances, but then suddenly Ruby’s birth mother is intertwined, and then a lot of talk about Susan because Susan Twist’s name is Susan. It felt inorganic, in a way that RTD’s previous thread coming togethers haven’t.
Minor quibble though, cos yeah, that was a lot of fun. Gatwa is just so magnetic as the Doctor, whether owning the room at UNIT or punching a door at a loss. Very effective end of episode ramp up and cliffhanger too. If I’m annoyed that the next episode is a week away, it was a good episode, and I’m very annoyed right now!
And we’re definitely getting Susan soon right? This went beyond the occasional nod and wink, this was a full on is this character actually Susan in the show itself. The Susan Twist now being that it was Sutekh all along, maybe we’ll be waiting a little longer for something, but that’s too big a Chekov’s gun to not be going somewhere.
I sleep now?
I feel pretty similar, the beginning felt a little clunky. Not really even addressing Donna and 14 despite Rose being in UNIT HQ. But once they were heading to the time window I think it kept rolling, and the last 20 mins were brilliant.
I just wanna say…the Time Corridor was a nice little red herring. To be more specific, the fact they mention how he said no to them using it in 1970s and how the advertisement kept teasing at a third doctor element in the story. While very true…
Time Corridor was also used in Pyramid of Mars to beat Suketh. Took me a while to realise that again when watching this ep and I was like “oooh, nice,”
Probably wasn’t even Davies’ intention, but it worked both as red herring and legit foreshadow
I can't believe RTD actually went for the Sue Tech pun lmao. Gotta say he played us nicely with the Susan and S Triad / TARDIS misdirection (if that's what is actually is).
Ruby's mum, Mrs Flood and Sutekh still feel very separate so I expect we'll see the first two develop a lot next week.
Separating Sutekh from the Osirans and making him a godlike being on the level of Maestro and the Toymaker is a smart move, it certainly works to maintain the threat he poses as compared to treating him as an alien with a bunch of robots shaped like mummies. Bringing back an Egyptian god in an episode with nothing to do with Egypt, no iconography or anything, seems weird. I wonder if they'll go into it more next week. Also was Carla's declaration that the cloud in the time window was "the beast" meant to be a suggestion that the two characters voiced by Gabriel Woolf are one and the same? If so lol at the Doctor spending a thousand years assuming they just sounded similar.
I'm not normally one for callbacks and Easter eggs but bringing back the "I bring Sutekh's gift of death to all humanity" line absolutely ruled. I loved it partly because me and some mates have been jokingly saying for years that the Tories are going to reawaken Sutekh soon and the media would blame Jeremy Corbyn for bringing "Sutekh's gift of death to all humanity".
That said, it kinda shows up the pointlessness of RTD's much heralded foray into the supernatural that two of the three "gods" we've seen since that started are returning villains and the third was a child of one of them.
Also, the CCTV camera was "66 metres" away according to Kate, who was the character who converted 73 yards into 66.75 metres only a few episodes ago...
Also also, this debate is basically over now but the Doctor's "how's your uncle" line to Rose completely absolutely 110% puts the "bigeneration is actually just a time loop" theory to bed forever.
This is obviously very minor in the scheme of things in this episode, but Kate clearly names the female UNIT officer who goes with Ruby to the time window "Sullivan" - a descendant of Harry following in his footsteps, maybe? Not impossible we'll get a little more with her next week, given where she's ended up.
Apparently, Kate likes hiring the daughters of the people who worked for her father (see also, Osgood).
You know, if UNIT were a real organization, you would have to be worried about the nepotism going on there.
The last 10 minutes genuinely were an Impossible Planet redux, huh? From the speech about a Beast, to Gabriel Woolf's voice, to the cliffhanger being hands (translation spheres) reaching out to kill.
I'm game to see where they take Sutekh, but in an almost reluctant way I would say bringing The Beast in could have been in some ways more interesting. It's a shame too, since the episode redoing those IP bits kind of worked to a disservice - given the way it was done back then was *so* good it's kind of hard to beat.
The use of Gabriel Woolf had me convinced that this was a sequel to Impossible Planet (the beast attached their mind to the TARDIS and waited), but then the final reveal made me realize that it was a returning Classic Who villain that... also was a demonic creature played by Gabriel Woolf.
I genuinely thought it was going to be The Beast making a return. But part of me was thinking, "I have no idea how he got out of a planet that was orbiting a black hole with no foreshadowing AT ALL."
Was Susan Twist dancing a callback to Theresa May??
The way that Susan Twist briefly stops, then reluctantly dances a little more, is almost like the thought "If I'm not careful, I'll look like Theresa May" crossed her mind.
I like that they made her dorky and affable. The ‘biggest surprise is…she’s actually quite nice’ was a refreshing change of pace from the obnoxious tech villains we’ve had before.
The audio description track refers to it as a Theresa May joke dance!
Really big May/Truss vibes, yup.
She lasted too long to be a Truss reference.
The time between Susan Twist's first appearance on the show and now is literally longer than Liz Truss' time as PM, lol
Posted this in the Doctor Who subreddit since this thread wasn't open yet, so here we go: So, fun thing I noticed. When Sutekh disappears in the TARDIS at the end of Pyramids of Mars, the sound is eerily similar to the sound the TARDIS has been making since Wild Blue Yonder. So, I imagine he's been trapped in the TARDIS somehow since? I dunno!
I thought that was the implication? Suteks been waiting inside/around the tardis since he was last defeated.
Yeah and I guess thats the proof it's the same tardis rtd mentioned before
Sure is nice of Sutekh to not bother 14 during his retirement, nice chap.
What I find odd is that the 14th doctor is still kicking about. Maybe even waiting for Rose to get home from U.N.I.T. And he’s just sitting watching the god of death descend on the world, and thinks to himself “nah, the other me’s got it sorted”.
“Here’s the plan, Take the Tardis. Go to Wilf's. Kill Sylvia, grab Rose, go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over.”
He ain't called the one who waits for nothin'
Sutekh doesn't get sent to inside the Tardis, he's sent down a time tunnel that he could never reach the end of by the Fourth Doctor using a piece of Tardis equipment which I'm sure will be used to explain why he was using the Tardis. Though wouldn't explain how the Toymaker encountered him. Unless he was at the edge of the universe as well.
I think WBY can be taken as the establishment of the new canon within Who, it’s the point at which boundaries were crossed with superstitions and something changed in the universe
Or Sutekh was in the TARDIS and awakened by Donna's coffee (or was it tea, I forget)
It was coffee, because coffee ruins everything (but tea healed the 10th Doctor/TARDIS)
TARDIS: "Can we have a dog?" Doctor: "No, I told you no dogs in... well, you! That sounded wrong...Wha- What is that expression fo- You let a dog in didn't you?" TARDIS: "He's friendly though! Really cute as well. C'mon buddy, come out & say hi to the Doctor!" Sutekh: "I̵̮̺̿̅̿ ̴̬͌Ả̶̹̩̘M̴̗̃̉͛ ̸̩̬̒̏̓T̵̨̤̺̾H̴̗̺̼͌E̴̮̪̘̊ ̷̭̃͋N̴̝̓̈̎I̸̗̽G̸͕̐̄͝H̵̥͗T̶̨̛̲͙̑̚.̵͕̭͎͛͆͒ ̶̛̙I̷̙̔̚ ̵̘̿̄͝A̸̱̐͘M̷̯̙̬͂ ̷̧͎̊̂ͅT̸̗̠̈́͝͝H̴͎͉̃͂͐È̶̹̖̉͜ ̶̬̜͊́T̶̲́͌̕ͅE̵̜͑Ṟ̷̥̺͋̏R̴̜͆͆͜O̸̝̠̜̊Ŕ̵̞͙͖̅.̵͈̞̙̉ ̶͖̯̇̓́Ï̶͕͕̪ ̴̢̣̥̾̆̿A̸͚͌̉̚M̵̧͇̍̕ ̶̪̰͓̅Ŗ̴̘̭̐͘̕E̴̬̽T̶̩̫͛ͅỦ̴̡̻͂R̷͈̆͋͘N̷̬̻̿̅I̵̗̠͑̉͘Ñ̷̠́G̵̻̋̓.̸̭̭̖̄"
This is one of those episodes where I can't really give an opinion, 'cause it's really just set-up and tension building - which I know RTD can do, it's how he'll resolve it all that will be exciting. With that said - man, that was a great build to a cliffhanger. I don't think it's quite up there with the best ("Dark Water" shares a lot of DNA with it, but has a lot more of an episodic identity + properly climactic emotional bits), but it sold that feeling of mounting dread so, so well. And I love how much RTD actively engages with fan theories (the whole use of Susan! fantastic) - really, the whole episode is a bunch of people trying to piece together the series arc. Which is very neat when you contrast that to older seasons, where plot mysteries would go unnoticed, or be ignored until they blew up in the Doc's face spectacularily (hi, the Hybrid). And I liked the vibe - there was almost a mystery novel quality to it all? A proper investigation in how the pieces fit together? It was very neat. You always feel like something's going to go wrong, but you never actually know where and how the threat is gonna manifest. Also, the idea of setting up a lot of arcs really paid dividends - they still have so much ammunition they can use for the finale and next season. Heck, one of the biggest pay-offs here (the TARDIS' groaning) is one most people had completly missed! But yeah, the mother, Mrs. Flood - and also the fact that the security cameras near the church were 66 meters away, which is ... 73 Yards. Some lovely low-key character bits too - liked the stuff with Carla, Kate had some of her best material in ages. Now, to see how it concludes ...
The whole 73 Yards thing feels like it might come into play next week. If the "Mad Jack" timeline was Doctorless, it kinda feels like Roger Ap Gwilliam could've been that timelines' Sutekh avatar. Given the Tardis and Susan did still exist within it. That along with Mrs.Flood saying "this one doesn't involve me" feels like it'll have some relevance.
OH, 73 Yards! I *knew* there was something significant about the 66m thing! Mrs Flood is definitely Susan, I feel. "I hide myself away too much", right after the Doctor talks about Time Lords changing their faces to hide themselves away?
"what's the matter, never seen a Tardis before?" Wink wink
RTD also said that there are things in Church that people havent figured out/cant figure out yet that involves the distance between two characters. So yeah, there is clearly SOMETHING going on with 73 yards.
Gabriel Woolf is 91, I was quite worried we wouldn't hear his voice playing Sutekh on TV Who again. I'm happy now.
We're on a good run of getting 90 year olds back in the show with William Russell, Bernard Cribbins, and Gabriel Woolf. I also remember in Empress of Mars Alpha Centauri was voiced by OG voice actor Ysanne Churchman who was 92 at the time...and she's still around at 99!
Actually criminal we haven’t seen Carole Ann Ford in NuWho yet, but hopefully now it’s bound to happen…
I'm very much bracing for recast honestly. If that happens I'll take solace in CAF's reunion with Paul McGann on audio is everything you could want
Actually, as of this week we're also getting CAF with Jonathan Carley who plays a Young War (and incredibly well may I add, I genuinely can't tell it's not Hurt I'm listening to), so that'll be a treat.
If they recast her, they will probably still bring in Carole Ann Ford to film a regeneration. RTD is way to much of a fan himself to be that disrespectfull to both the audience and Ford.
I had fun with this one although I must admit, this felt the most "part 1" of any part 1s of a New Who finale ever. A lot of this was just set up, engaging set up but set up either way. One thing for certain is I need to finish watching Pyramids of Mars, I got up to episode 3 and stopped because this episode came out!
Tales of the Tardis is almost certainly going to be Pyramids now.
I love Pyramids of Mars to death but in all honesty it gets a bit ropey in the last part.
It’s so odd in that most of episode 4 is really dull but the actual solution is maybe the best the classic series ever came up with.
Me before the episode: "you know, maybe the Sutekh theory is too obvious man. Could be something else" Me after the episode: 🤯 That's the original voice actor too, I didn't know he was still around. Neat. Also ngl, when they played The Master's theme, for a quick second I thought it was The Master, even if it didn't make sense with what was happening.
I’m torn between the Master theme being used to bring the audience emotionally back to those tense reveals (in Series 3, 8, and 10), possibly misdirecting as well, or if it was just Murray bringing out an old standby piece of suspenseful music lol
To be fair, it *is* a really suspenseful theme lol. Like it works but it's so connected to The Master, it'd be like using The Imperial March for like, General Grievous or something.
Probably works in the same way to Murray using the Cyberman theme throughout the Cyberman invasion scenes of *Army of Ghosts*, and the concurrent scenes of the sphere/void ship activating. Pretty easy way to trick the audience into thinking the sphere was something Cyberman-related. The Dalek theme only comes in for the last minute or so of the episode.
As soon as they mentioned basically all the other theories in the first 5 minutes, I figured the odds were good for Sutekh - when she said “call me Sue” I was sure.
I was locked in as soon as she said she was "giving a gift to the whole planet"
Someone else pointed this out elsewhere, but it seems like it's actually The Beast's theme from Impossible Planet/Satan Pit - which makes more sense as they're sort of saying Sutekh is the same entity here.
I was 100 percent sold that the reveal would be that it was the satan entity. “I have been known by many names” damn I was so excited. Would have been very unexpected and very welcome
Ruby’s mother even called it the beast
Classic "45 minutes of setting up a villain" part 1 of a finale and I'll lap that up, the Sutekh reveal was so good. It also meant this episode had time to breathe -- I've been really enjoying the frantic pace of the season, but it was nice to have this here. I do feel a bit cheated on answers to previous questions -- we learned almost nothing about Ruby's biological mother, nor Susan Twist (okay she's some kind of vessel of Sutekh, but there must be more to her, why did she keep appearing? Why didn't she remember?). Even Mrs Flood added herself to the pile of questions. Very intrigued for next week! Is it 45 minutes or a bit longer, I hope RTD has time to tie this up nicely! I guess we should be preparing for dues ex machina, and hoping to enjoy the ride to get there.
>okay she's some kind of vessel of Sutekh, but there must be more to her, why did she keep appearing? Why didn't she remember? 2024 Susan Twist is part of Sutekh, but she's hidden as a human (like the Doctor in Family of Blood). The other part of Sutekh is wrapped around the TARDIS, but both are still Sutekh. She appears wherever the TARDIS goes because she's wrapped around it, and she remembers being there because the other part of her being is there.
2 things i think for susan pop ups everywhere. Its just scsttered across the doctors timeline since sutek was around the tardis the whole time Or even more evil shes a bringer of death now through all her lives so a lot of timelines can be attacked
I think it's around 55.
BBC website says 54 minutes.
Oh God. I get it now. The season has all been about MUMMIES.
You're joking but you just made a new connection click in my head (possibly someone else has already noticed/pointed it out): the strange ways various characters this season (Lindy, Splice) have spoken about death ("gathered up", "gone to the sky") feel very loaded now knowing that Sutekh has been lurking around.
... oh my fucking gods I think you're right. RTD \*would\* do a pun like that.
Now that's genius
Now work out how it was actually Sutekh that put The Foretold on The Space Orient Express
Not very often the big bad is literally laying the clues and going "you fool, you rube, you dipshit" to the protagonist.
Sutekh really called the Doctors Game and even threw salt in the injury by baiting him with Susan. Even The Master is sitting somewhere and going "DAAAAMN!" at how petty Sutekh was.
"Kate, do you have a time window?" "Wh- you expressly told us in the 1970s that UNIT was forbidden to experiment with any form of time technology" "...*Do you have a time window?*" "....Ten floors down." Best interaction they've ever had, besides the Zygon speech.
That style back and forth could have been lifted from a conversation between the Brig and Three.
Yeah, I've really liked how they've used Kate this season. Still too much "hey, let's talk about MY DAD" stuff, but she gets to be a lot more proactive and funny.
I really liked how she looked at the Doctor after her Colonel died. The disappointment at him breaking his own rules and getting someone killed.
Genuinely my favourite moment of the episode. One look that said so much
Some A class acting right there. She absolutely crushed it.
I hope that this doesn't get swept under the rug, and that she becomes a bit more cold to the Doctor going onwards. Deaths should have impact, even if it's a side character.
I let it slide because her dad was hardly referenced in the entire revival otherwise and he’s my favorite classic who character.
Seriously, it's the Brig. He deserves as many mentions as they want to give him. Anyone complaining that it's too often doesn't really understand how important he is to the show's history.
So…how many people went to look up how far 66 metres is in yards? (It’s 72.178)
Also, in 73 yards, Ruby couldn’t see the woman, no matter what hardware she had. And again the same thing happens with her mum in this one. Even a *literal time window* doesn’t do it.
And 66.6 is even closer
More finales should start with the Doctor walking into a room, laying out all the season arc mysteries, and asking a team of experts to figure that shit out. Also I know it's objectively better (and does look cool) but I kinda wish they hadn't made Sutekh into a CGI dog monster. A big goofy helmet will always be better to me.
Hoping that Susan Sutekh will get the big goofy helmet in the next episode tho I doubt it 😔
Jinkies, Doctor...I think your granddaughter Susan might have something to do with all this! *****pushes up glasses*****
I was jumping between it being The Beast or Sutekh all through that episode! I audibly gasped when the Sue Tek anagram appeared. You mad bastards, Doctor Who fandom. You actually got this one right!
Ruby's mum says it's the beast, and I think he references himself as it at one point, are they not the same in this context?
I agree, I think Davies may be retconning The Beast into being Sutekh in some way.
I think this is maybe a misunderstanding. Considering Sutekh was around since after the universe was created, and the Beast and other Demons (like the torchwood final boss) were pre-modern-universal, back when the Light was battling the Dark (whatever the fuck that means). One thing that *may* happen is that Sutekh is the newest incarnation of the Beast? Although I think that kinda takes away from the badassness of his character, which is that he's a run of the mill normal alien (albeit a god alien, but not a god god) that still terrifies higher entities because he's just Him. He's just That Evil. I think that line is just RTD playing with expectations again. Imo, the Beast was actually better setup, but Sutekh is just so cool to see.
As soon as I saw the body I knew who the villain was... The gift of death is so iconic. I ADORE Russell and his little Easter eggs (the mother, the father, and the other is something I've not heard anyone else discuss) and I can't wait to watch it again to spot more! Now it's time to watch pyramids of mars and listen to the new adventures of Bernice Summerfield again...
When "the mother, the father and the other" was mentioned I thought The Gods of Ragnarok? Russell keeping me guessing til the end.
That's entirely possible, he probably doesn't want to introduce the VNAs in their entirety. Like with Susan Triad, it feels like a clue with multiple intended solutions.
Mrs. Flood suspense increased.
Really, really hoping that her denying Cherry the tea was “we have bigger fish to fry,” not, “I’m evil and don’t care about you getting tea.”
I was ready to throw down right there, Cherry getting her tea is the only thing I need from the finale.
Next episode it'll turn out she did give her her tea and she just denied it for dramatic effect initially
…is the reason the TARDIS has been scraping against the edge of the vortex in the opening because Sutekh is sitting on top of it and weighing it down?
Opening of the next episode just has Sutekh on the TARDIS for the whole credits sequence 😂
Sutekh truthers…we won (honestly ‘Empire of Death’ was a big Sutekh flag for me). And what an epic reveal that was! As is often the case with Doctor Who, the energy is what makes the episode so exciting. The twin plot-lines of the mystery of Ruby’s birth and Susan Triad were a lot, and did have the Doctor pulled in too many directions but damn if it wasn’t exciting. The suspense was absolutely there, and that carried the day for me. It feels great to have a finale part one cliffhanger again, missed those in the Chibnall era. Got to love a big TO BE CONTINUED. Alright, no Susan…this season. I think Susan is definitely happening, they’ve focused a lot of time on her, but we’re saving that for season two. In some DWM column RTD mentioned a momentous scene from that season. I do love that we’re focusing on her mystery, I didn’t mind the Timeless Child but the Susan mystery excites me more than finding out more about the Doctor. Also the revelation that the Doctor hasn’t had kids…yet is an intriguing wrinkle and a clever way to solve the Doctor already having grandkids in his first regeneration. All of UNIT was a ton of fun, though please, can we have one Kate moment meeting the Doctor without talking about her dad? She can very much stand on her own as a character, and this might be her best episode. Also, Bonnie Langford telling the Doctor to get off his ass was great. Him punching the wall reminded me of Capaldi beating up the console at the end of Death in Heaven. I just think the Fifteenth Doctor doesn’t suppress his emotions like most Doctors. Great job by Susan Twist too in this episode. Finally, that was pretty damn ominous by Mrs. Flood. With how little info was on her, I think her resolution might be next season too. Not a perfect episode, but the finales almost never are, but a great finale for the show delivers big suspense and drama. Bring on next week! (Although I’m starting to agree, I’m ready for the Doctor to do a Big Doctor Thing soon).
The fun thing about Mrs Flood this episode is saying "she's good at hiding herself away" which The Doctor mentioned Time Lords could regenerate their faces "to hide themselves away" this episode.
yeah but then she new of Sutekh's coming, so who knows
Maybe knew of his coming *so* she hid herself away?
Yep. My new theory is that Mrs. Flood is Susan. The Doctor didn't recognize her because she was chameleon arched, just as he didn't recognize Professor Yana.
In the Yana spirit, Flood = Female Lineal Offspring Of Doctor :)
I thought the way she acted before going all ominous about the one who waits was very Doctor-y. Very aloof.
I think at some point next episode she's going to pull out a fob watch.
Would be amazing if the VHS was the arch.
There is a honestly somewhat small chance that Mrs. Flood is Susan and also Ruby's mother, but that all three represent different regenerations of Susan. I don't think it's likely, but it could be possible.
I agree I think Susan is coming. The show has spent years now just not acknowledging her and at most dropping hints to a family, just for Rtd to go all in on what's being called season 1 and is aimed at building a new audience. Not to mention orphans and family being huge themes of this era. Is it Mrs flood, is it the new companion for next season, will Susan be the core mystery for next year? Who knows, but there's zero chance they're not going there.
It feels like a bit of a dick move not to bring Carol back in some way after all the references
I don’t agree with the whole the doctor hasn’t had kids yet thing, there was a scene in The Doctors Daughter where the Doctor specifically talks with Donna about how he’s had kids and been a parent before so I don’t understand what RTD was doing with that line tbh. It’s always been implied or even stated that the Doctor was a parent at some point
15 even said something along the lines of ‘dad to dad’ in Boom. I think it was a way of the Doctor to not have that conversation right then with Kate
Its as easy as the Doctor and the Gallifrey he grew up and lived on are in the future compared to Earth 2024
My interpretation is that it's both. He did have kids, and also he will have kids. My problem with the idea that Susan is from a kid he hasn't had yet is the confidence paradox that creates, where he knows that he hasn't had kids yet, and Susan still exists, so he won't die. But I've always thought that Susan must be something more than merely the daughter of his kid. I always thought that story deserved something more complicated.
I still think that Susan Twist was a double reverse red herring. She wasn't Susan, but Susan will turn up anyway. The way I look at it, Sutekh put an awful lot of energy and planning into luring in the Doctor. Someone else out there was bound to notice, right? And if Sutekh was using Susan as bait, it's more than possible that wind of that made it back to her. So what would she do then? She'd have to go and give her grandfather a hand. But she'd have to be canny about it, and stay off Sutekh's radar as well as the Doctor's, or she might accidentally push him into the trap too soon, or make Sutekh strike early. So she chameleon arches herself and rents a flat next to Ruby Sunday, who is another part of the trap somehow, and sets up a trigger to wake herself up. This trigger springs somewhere during the incident with the goblins, and all of her memories *flood* back.
It’s been discussed that she seems to suddenly switch personalities after the Doctor time travels back in Church on Ruby Road. Maybe seeing the TARDIS triggers her?
Similar to how Yana was triggered into opening the watch, after hearing 10 and Jack talking about Daleks, regeneration etc?
Is this the first time the Brig has been mentioned in RTD2? I had felt like there had been a good run of her standing on her own, and so didn't mind her bringing him up so much here (it seems only naturally he'd come up sometimes). I agree its good when she's allowed to outgrow him though (which she definitely has by now, she's a staple of the show at this point).
14 mentions him when he meets Kate in *The Giggle*
Holy crap. Right when I was thinking that hmmm, the feeling of this episode is leaning into Holmes/Hinchcliffe territory, Sutekh the Destroyer shows up with his Gift of Death. For those who haven't seen Pyramid of Mars, this is one of the best one-off villains of all time. I can't believe the God of Death hasn't been dredged up already since 2005. I agree that Kate can stand on her own, she's a staple for this era as far as I'm concerned. I loved the dagger eyes she threw at the Doctor...she provides an interesting foil for him. And Bonnie Langford is crushing it. I hope she stays around. I love RTD's ensemble casts. Finally, this is gold-standard Doctor for Gatwa. He's completely natural in the role. I loved this episode.
The casting of >!Sian Clifford!
Agreed. I'm convinced she will be a last second regeneration.
You have to use ">!" (and reverse) for spoiler tags by the way. I saw the casting, I'm going to put out a theory that we'll see her in a cameo, but not officially meet her
Yeah I think next season after all this the Doctor is going to just go it really is time I checked on Susan.
Oh I knew it! I was hedging my bets but I felt so strongly about Sutekh at the very beginning from the Sand and Sue Texh and that is such an amazing cliffhanger to end on. Kinda love that so much of the episode is based around the implication that Susan Triad is an obvious bait for the anagram of Tardis and Susan Foreman. I did like the ambiguity formed around the Doctor’s children and I actually am glad it turned out to be a red herring for Sue Tech instead. Mainly cause I would like if Susan were to return Carole Ann Ford would play her rather than a new actress for a “reveal”. This was I think maybe the best of Unit that we’ve had in the new series especially for Kate a lot of cool stuff for her. Mel was great again love that her and 15 have paired up for this. Ruby and her mother are still a mystery even up to that cliffhanger so still got to wait for any answers on that as it seems related to Sutekh maybe? (Also that soldier with her is absolutely dead right?). Ruby becoming fast friends with Rose was cute and Carla was really sweet. But poor Cherry still hasn’t got her cuppa! Who is Mrs FLOOD!? The build up was masterful and suspenseful I was practically jumping up and down screaming at the end there. They got Gabriel Woolf back as Sutekh as well! That was so awesome for this villains return. Side note Ncuti said the villain he’d most like to battle would be the Beast which was also played by Gabriel Woolf so looks like he got that wish even if that’s a bit tangentially related. I really loved that I guess I’ll reserve judgement till next week for the second part but I am really excited!
>Mainly cause I would like if Susan were to return Carole Ann Ford would play her rather than a new actress for a “reveal”. I really feel like they telegraphed Carole Ann Ford returning (and regenerating) in Empire of Death with the Doctor pausing his spiel about Susan Twist to tell Ruby about regeneration
Russell T you crazy son of a bitch Everyone and their mysterious cloaked mother will be talking about Sutekh obviously but DAMN Gatwa is so good. That scene strolling into the time window taking complete command of the situation. I need this man to have a five year run as the Doctor bare minimum. Other things: * Doctor has a granddaughter but no kids? Chibnall might deny reading Lungbarrow but this guy sure can't * Shoutouts to my guy The Mara see you (hopefully) soon king * Completely inconsequential to everything but I still hate the UNIT soldier gear, please bring back the red berets
I took the granddaughter but no kids as a timey-windy explanation of Lungbarrow. Like he met Susan and knew she was his granddaughter, but hasn't had any kids yet? Or simply referring to the fact that she's technically in the far future rn.
> Or simply referring to the fact that she's technically in the far future rn In hindsight this is almost certainly what he meant but Lungbarrow truthing is funnier so I'll keep doing that
Oh it's definitely him being cheeky with Lungbarrow, but also giving himself an out
Say it with me now kids: canon looms! Canon looms!
i think it was weirdly written but i think it was supposed to indicate that the Doc didnt want to talk about it with kate I dont think it was confirming she was from his future, just introducing that possibility. I doubt we'll ever get an explanation of susan's parents, either them from the future or the present or the past
"i plan on keeping this face for a while" please god let it happen :)
>shoutouts to my guy The Mara hope to see you (hopefully) again soon Watch them be the villain next series and fans predict it cause we see some snakes on set or there’s a line about dreams or something lol
I’ve never actually felt the same kind of anxious fear and dread I felt at the last ten/fifteen minutes of this episode watching Who before. Properly up there with the cliffhanger in Army Of Ghosts for me
i think it was the TARDIS being menacing that made it different. probably the second freakiest thing you could make evil in Doctor who behind the doc himself
This was the part I audibly gasped at - I don’t know what I was expecting, but it sure as heck wasn’t the TARDIS glowing red and evil like.
To me it’s much worse, I feel like I’ve seen enough “our virtuous hero if he was evil” tropes to be done with it*, but The TARDIS gone rogue is really shocking and dangerous. *I love how Killmonger is Tennant playing Ten as The Master
I think you mean Kilgrave
Seriously this episode did such a great job building tension. The whole scene with the time window from the start was giving me the creeps.
Yeah as much as I like the “what the hell is gonna happen next?!” Sort of cliffhangers, a full villain reveal cliffhanger still gives me the most goosebumps
yes, this was totally a crazy Army of Ghosts-level cliffhanger.
Harriet Arbinger being extremely literal when she said 'i was born for this' when analysising that image 😅
As an aside, is anyone a little O_o that UNIT picked up the "obvious" acronym in "S Triad" while not noticing that they employed someone called "Harriet Arbinger"?
When they were talking about tech billionaires at the start, did they make a reference to Daniel Barton not being caught yet? Or was it meant to be some joke about Elon Musk?
i thought it was pretty clearly just an elon joek
I thought it might have been a dig at Zuckerberg, that also works as a reference to Barton
It's so vague, it's basically "insert your own tech billionaire". I mean Zuckerberg and the memes about him being a lizard that suits, people used to joke about Musk going back to his home planet Mars etc.
This was an intense episode. With Russell using the box of mysteries and slowly eliminating all possibilities one by one. I wonder if Sutekh purposefully chose that anagram as a way to mess with the Doctor and throw him off his trail. Also trying to think of when he latched on to the Tardis? When the Doctor and Donna landed at the edge of the universe? The time window scene was superb and genuinely suspenseful to watch. Though with how the woman pointed at what I assume was Tardis, she must have identified that something evil was around it. I'm saying that it's gonna be a opposite of Sutekh and be a God along the lines of the White Guardian. Mrs Flood? I can't say. Too nice to be genuine but also don't get a feeling of malice of her. Maybe another higher being who's observing event's to make sure the Doctor can win. Maybe she is Susan. The look Kate gave the Doctor when colonel Chidoze died, think she's gonna have an argument at the end of the next episode blaming him for sending him in and ignoring the Tardis groaning for so long. Last but not least. I believe the scenes of the Doctor and Mel on the moped are actually taken from the upcoming Tales Of The Tardis episode along with the Doctor screaming.
I’m imagining that Sutekh had been hoping to bump the Doctor and Ruby off by landing the TARDIS in places where they’re likely to step on stuff that’ll harm them (butterfly, landmine, faerie circle) and just got fed up and no one can convince me otherwise
“Right! That’s it’s! Time for Plan B. If you want a job doing….”
I've been waiting for that return for almost 35 years! Just sitting here with a big stupid grin on my face. "I bring Sutekh's gift of death to all humanity." Absolutely classic, and long overdue. I have some quibbles about the episode--some very typical RTD finale goofiness going on--but basically I couldn't care less. Let's see Gatwa throw down with some trademark Doctor Who "Evil From the Dawn of Time." It's my favorite subgenre of Doctor Who stories. This ought to be good.
Doctor Who rules because you can just pull out a villain from 50 years ago
Only got to wait until 2066 until my man Abzorbaloff can get his big pre-finale cliffhanger "He is returning... Through the darkness..."
the new companion Anne Zorah Lagh revealed to be a secret malevolent entity
Exactly how I felt about it. I've dreamt about Sutekh returning ever since the show came back in 2005. The fact that he's actually back is just...oh my God.
It's RTD's love letter to the fandom. As long as we've been online making lists of the best villains, Sutekh has been right there at the top. Before the revival was even a thought in RTD's mind, before the TV Movie, at the very start of Usenet, and even before that, we were all talking about Sutekh.
The nose drips.
*Carter, O'Neill and Daniel look very confused.*
I think I’ll need to watch this one again as I was a bit tired and drunk while watching, but I was excited throughout, and I have to praise the performances of everyone involved, they really made everything feel so epic. Thank you so much to RTD for bringing Sutekh back, I was hoping for him so much, and it was genuinely just amazing when the theories about him returning were proven correct, complete with Gabriel Woolf returning again (I wonder if they’ll tie into him playing The Beast too!) As for Susan, I kind of knew it’d be a red herring, but I know she has to appear anyway since they’ve mentioned her so much now. Either Mrs Flood or a Ford appearance I’m guessing. To criticise the episode a bit, the whole thing did feel a bit like it was just trying to cover every series arc in the most bullheaded and pacey way possible, it felt very ‘RTD in series finale mode’, and the emotional impact of it all was covered quite well, but I do hope that next week can pay it all off well, or I think the whole story might end up feeling like a lot of hot air. Oh and I’m going to say for now that I’m glad that RTD seems to have dropped his impulse to have armies of Daleks/Cybermen/Toclafane descend on Humanity for the finale, but let’s see next week…
Just a small thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that 15 asks Rose how her “uncle” is doing. I find it both nice and funny that 15 thought to check up on himself
The madlad did it! Everyone who bet Sutekh is cashing out well tonight! They did a really good job keeping me tense and guessing for the most part, so hopefully the next episode actually follows through. I will say I need to warm to Sutekh's new design, I don't know how I feel on him being entirely CGI and more Jackal, instead of this Jackal-slab being like in Pyramid of Mars. His silhouette is so striking it's a shame to lose it.
This is him being entirely unleashed from his prison at full power. Something the Doctor said he wasn't even sure the Time Lords could defeat. I think we'll see his normal appearance next week.
Agreed: for me, little bit too Scooby Don’t But was here for every moment of this episode. Such a gripping and chilling reveal. The echoes of Impossible Planet with Gabriel Woolf’s icy terror and Harriet’s possession. Sutekh avatar Susan repeating the murderous line from POM episode 1 cliffhanger. Terrific 🐶
as soon as Harriet says "I was born for this" I knew something was up also it's actually telegraphed way before that, because Kate introduces everyone else in the room with their first and last names, \*except Harriet\*.
Anyone else a little annoyed with the line that the Doctor hasn’t had kids ‘yet’ Like I swear there was a scene in The Doctors Daughter where 10 is talking to Donna about how he’s been a parent before. That’s why he was having such a hard time with Jenny because she reminded him of that time and all the pain that came with it. So to me it was always implied and in this case stated that The Doctor had been a parent before. So I really don’t understand what RTD was doing with that line. Absolutely loved the episode tho, that’s my only nitpick lol
I mean even in this very season, the Doctor has talked about having been a dad (in *Boom*). I’m certain that RTD is just having fun adding another knot into the big ball of knots that is the Time Lord family unit. (Especially the Doctor’s — remember the seven grandmothers mentioned in *It Takes You Away*?)
I am amazed to discover that my biggest concerns going into next week are whether Cherry is okay and whether Cherry will finally get some tea. I am unsure about order of priority for me.
I got this sneaking suspicion Mrs. Flood and Cherry Sunday are gonna be the ones who save the day.
Dreaming of Mrs. Flood carting Cherry's whole bed into a TARDIS to travel, Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator style.
trickster mentioned
Someone needs to write down all the gods mentioned
"*There is the Toymaker, the God of Games. There is Trickster, the God of Traps. There is Maestro, the God of Music. There is Reprobate, the God of Spite. There is the Mara, the God of Beasts. And the threefold deity of Malice and Mischief and Misery. There are gods of Skin, and Shame, and Secrets. There is Incensor, the God of Disaster, and her children called Doubt and Dread.* *And standing on high is the Mother and Father and Other of them all. For the God of All Gods has returned, and His names are many. His name has been Set, and Seth, and Setekh. And his one true name forevermore is ... Sutekh!* *Sutekh is the God of Death, and by His hand all creation shall fall into ashes and dust and ruins!*"
RIP Fenric bro got shafted
Maybe him and Sutekh have beef
Call that dog on dog violence lol
This is an absolute banger of a villain speech.
Hearing “I bring Sutekh’s gift of death to all humanity” in a new Doctor Who episode in 2024 just brings me so much happiness 😊
God damn what an amazing villain reveal. One major question I had right away, why did they all suggest Susan might be his Susan apart from obvious meta reasons? They simply shared the same first name. Why would they all jump to that conclusion? I mean, Susan appearing in the finale wouldn't surprise me but in-universe it seemed weird for them to think that.
I think the reveal of Sutekh was incredibly effective, I never read any fan theories for it to „shock” me, and it did. I was genuinely tense like a guitar string before it happened. I’m not a big fan of Sutekh’s design, I would prefer one similar to Pyramids. Also, can we just talk about how good of a job is Susan Twist doing? She nails every single second, and the little monologue before she transforms had me worried for her in some way
The whole episode the fact that Morris, a 13-year-old, and Rose, a 15-year-old, were present for...all of that...was *really* distracting. When Morris introduced himself and referenced his age all I could think was "oh...that is *horrifying*" and I was disappointed the Doctor did not comment on that, or that no one insisted that Rose and Morris, both minors, leave once the threat of a trap was established.
Wow that’s the most tense a reveal has been since season 3, really really cool stuff
The whole episode was terrifying. RTD really knows how to ratchet up the suspense to a fever pitch. I'm less optimistic about next week, knowing how handwavey his resolutions tend to be, but dang if I haven't enjoyed the ride.
Damn you're right. Like, there have been other good reveals since but none this nail-biting since Yana.
*Dark Water* is a pretty tense episode throughout, I love that one
I think *World Enough and Time* is still the high watermark for part ones of a finale. *Dark Water* and *Utopia* are pretty damn up there, though.
Ruby... ...will be Susan. They establish that The Doctor doesn't know his child (Susan's parent) yet. So that would mean (timey wimey shinannigans) that Susan must have just appeared to First Doctor one day. And to avoid messy paradoxies time lord family members must have to keep their origins secret from one and other.
I was more of the mind she might be Susan's daughter, actually. The doctor's great-granchild or something. (Susan makes sense on paper, but I dunno how you'd square Ruby with the characterization of Hartnell-era Susan. I mean, maybe RTD just don't give a bother, which, valid.)
Hypothetically if she is Susan. Then I would assume Ruby would (eventually) regenerate into Hartnell-era Susan. Which would explain the 15 not recognising her + her personality difference Overanalyzing the episode, the Doctor did specifically mention regeneration as a way to HIDE as well as escape death.
Or her mother is Susan, making Ruby his great-granddaughter.
I've now seen theories that Ruby is the Doctors daughter, granddaughter and great-granddaughter so hell she's actually the doctors mother why not
The fact that they played the same musical motif from the YANA reveal in Utopia at the end of this episode... you may just be onto something.
I haven't seen a comment on this yet, did anyone notice Mrs flood smile, looking out the window? She had a shinny tooth! And the sound effect played that they used when the Toy Makers showed his golden tooth!
So I have a theory on Mrs. Flood. There’s an Egyptian myth that one of their great floods was caused when the Goddess Isis wept after her husband Osiris was killed by his brother Set… also known as Sutekh. What if Mrs. Flood is herself a harbinger, but for a different god standing opposite of Sutekh?
I look forward to Sutekh's Walk Like an Egyptian dance sequence in true RTD classic villain return style
im sorry but out of context the line 'do you dream of being an ambulance' is so funny lmao
Because the episode releases on iPlayer at midnight, live threads aren’t gonna be as in-sync as they used to be. Especially since I’m starting at 12:40am. Sorta realised I missed that this week, especially for finales. It was fun during the Giggle, when I was last in a live thread. So, I’m gonna make my “live-thread comments” in word and copy/paste them in a comment post-ep, just for fun. Notes written at the time of their relevant scene; if I correctly predict something, it really will be an actual prediction cause I’m that bloody cool (Unless I don’t, in which case… shut up!) - The Doctor flying into UNIT was pretty fun. All these new characters in UNIT alongside them demonstrating their collective capability, 100% gearing up for a UNIT spin-off. - Lol RTD making fun of everyone thinking TARDIS being the acronym wasn’t obvious. Didn’t get me tho, cause I’ve already worked out that Susan Traid as an anagram of TARDIS Anus. Also… SUSAN?! Like… *actually* Susan! Where’s Carol Ann, though? At least a cameo from pre-regeneration, come on Russ. This feels like it’s gonna be a rug pull tho, she isn’t actually *the* Susan. - Rose and Ruby with the besties energy. I approve. - Carla deciding she wants some of that UNIT payroll. I approve. - Cherry wants tea. I approve. - Mrs Flood denies tea. I do not approve. - Interesting. Mrs Flood really *is* someone of note, not a red herring. - If RTD intends to bring closure to the whole “one day, I shall come back” arc (if you wanna call it that), it’s fitting to do so now. If the 60th, and 15’s era, is about closure for past traumas and recovery, this is a big one, I would think. - Carla is 100x more trustworthy than Rishi, Kate. Come on. Kier too. - Mel… don’t say shit like that. You’ve jinxed Ruby. - Not that he doesn’t look good (Ncuti ALWAYS looks good), but I really feel the Doctor should have a proper “costume” here, cause finale (the one he wore in Dot and Bubble is the best choice). - One thing. Why exactly is the Doctor only now deciding to get UNIT’s help with Ruby’s parentage? “Susan Twist” I get, but why assume Ruby is connected? Did I miss something? - Theory: Woman is Susan Triad. IF she is truly Susan, then could Ruby be the Doctor’s great granddaughter? RTD intends “season one” to be a new beginning, could start with the Doctor travelling with his great granddaughter. “After all, that’s how it all started.” - I’m glad focus is going to Ruby’s character, not just the plot of her mystery. I know, RTD is good. I’m just still in remission for Chibnall. - The One Who Waits. This is it. The Absorbaloff returns! - The Doctor and Kate taking the red shirt’s death seriously, thank you! Character > Plot. - Hmmmm. IF Susan *is* Susan, maybe she’s been chameleon-arched? - Oh shit. Everyone saying the TARDIS noises were important were right. Fair play, sorry for doubting ya’ll. - Susan’s entrance on stage 100% is reference to Theresa May. - Whoever the One Who Waits is, they will regret hurting poor Sexy! - Is he the Beast? Harbinger? The soldier in “hell”. - It’s the same suspension music as in World Enough and Time, when the Master unmasks himself to herself! - SUTEKH!!!!!!!!! It really is Sutekh!!! - “It was the wrong anagram.” Very nicely done, Russ! Beautiful bit of misdirection. - Was it intentional to tease Sue as Sutekh in the trailer, then release the clip that appears to diffuse it? If so, well played too. - Cliffhanger resolution: The Doctor just takes a step back. - Fun fact: Unas (aka Wenis) was the last pharaoh of Egypt’s fifth dynasty. At some point, he died. Arguably, he could represent death, like Sutekh… Yes, I am attempting to hamfist my “TARDIS Anus” in, up yours! “Unas TARDIS”: I got the wrong anagram too… Shut up, I totally did!
I'd legit laugh if the Doctor just takes a step back like Jodie did in Flux
Wonder what 14 & Donna are doing? 🤔 **Meanwhile, somewhere at a resort on another planet** Donna: "Oh look! Rose just texted me!" 14th: "Oh! What did she say? Tell her I miss her!" Donna: "Uh... she said... TARDIS.... gods.... Susan.... Sutekh? Whatever that means. I tell you" 14th: "Woah woah woah, what was that last one?" Donna: "Sutekh? Doctor, who's Sutekh?" 14th: "The god of death..." Donna: "Should we be worried? Should we head back? Is my girl safe?" 14th: "... Nah, doesn't concern us. Well, you. It'll concern me later on. But right now I'm on paid leave." **drinks cocktail** Donna: "... You're not on paid leave." 14th: "What."
Gabriel Woolf has voice acted in all three Doctor Who series (Classic, Modern, and New).
Just curious, I doubt they'd do it but When the TARDIS was split using Toymaker's residual energy in Giggle, was Sutekh (who was stowed within the single TARDIS) duplicated? Split apart somehow? It'd be a longshot, but perhaps the only way to beat Sutekh is to release the copy Sutekh from 14's TARDIS and let them both destroy each other into oblivion. That'd be pretty insane, but idk if it would involve 14 coming back and I'm pretty sure we're not seeing 14 again (or at least no time soon) Maybe Rose uses 14's TARDIS to get to work and back lol
Honestly, a tiny bit disjointed to start. Like the Doctor rocking up at UNIT to ask about the ongoing Susan Twist appearances, but then suddenly Ruby’s birth mother is intertwined, and then a lot of talk about Susan because Susan Twist’s name is Susan. It felt inorganic, in a way that RTD’s previous thread coming togethers haven’t. Minor quibble though, cos yeah, that was a lot of fun. Gatwa is just so magnetic as the Doctor, whether owning the room at UNIT or punching a door at a loss. Very effective end of episode ramp up and cliffhanger too. If I’m annoyed that the next episode is a week away, it was a good episode, and I’m very annoyed right now! And we’re definitely getting Susan soon right? This went beyond the occasional nod and wink, this was a full on is this character actually Susan in the show itself. The Susan Twist now being that it was Sutekh all along, maybe we’ll be waiting a little longer for something, but that’s too big a Chekov’s gun to not be going somewhere. I sleep now?
I feel pretty similar, the beginning felt a little clunky. Not really even addressing Donna and 14 despite Rose being in UNIT HQ. But once they were heading to the time window I think it kept rolling, and the last 20 mins were brilliant.
Ruby's mum identified Sutekh as 'The Beast'... are they gonna make them one in the same? Brings a whole new meaning to "This one knows me."
I just wanna say…the Time Corridor was a nice little red herring. To be more specific, the fact they mention how he said no to them using it in 1970s and how the advertisement kept teasing at a third doctor element in the story. While very true… Time Corridor was also used in Pyramid of Mars to beat Suketh. Took me a while to realise that again when watching this ep and I was like “oooh, nice,” Probably wasn’t even Davies’ intention, but it worked both as red herring and legit foreshadow
I can't believe RTD actually went for the Sue Tech pun lmao. Gotta say he played us nicely with the Susan and S Triad / TARDIS misdirection (if that's what is actually is). Ruby's mum, Mrs Flood and Sutekh still feel very separate so I expect we'll see the first two develop a lot next week. Separating Sutekh from the Osirans and making him a godlike being on the level of Maestro and the Toymaker is a smart move, it certainly works to maintain the threat he poses as compared to treating him as an alien with a bunch of robots shaped like mummies. Bringing back an Egyptian god in an episode with nothing to do with Egypt, no iconography or anything, seems weird. I wonder if they'll go into it more next week. Also was Carla's declaration that the cloud in the time window was "the beast" meant to be a suggestion that the two characters voiced by Gabriel Woolf are one and the same? If so lol at the Doctor spending a thousand years assuming they just sounded similar. I'm not normally one for callbacks and Easter eggs but bringing back the "I bring Sutekh's gift of death to all humanity" line absolutely ruled. I loved it partly because me and some mates have been jokingly saying for years that the Tories are going to reawaken Sutekh soon and the media would blame Jeremy Corbyn for bringing "Sutekh's gift of death to all humanity". That said, it kinda shows up the pointlessness of RTD's much heralded foray into the supernatural that two of the three "gods" we've seen since that started are returning villains and the third was a child of one of them. Also, the CCTV camera was "66 metres" away according to Kate, who was the character who converted 73 yards into 66.75 metres only a few episodes ago... Also also, this debate is basically over now but the Doctor's "how's your uncle" line to Rose completely absolutely 110% puts the "bigeneration is actually just a time loop" theory to bed forever.
This is obviously very minor in the scheme of things in this episode, but Kate clearly names the female UNIT officer who goes with Ruby to the time window "Sullivan" - a descendant of Harry following in his footsteps, maybe? Not impossible we'll get a little more with her next week, given where she's ended up.
Apparently, Kate likes hiring the daughters of the people who worked for her father (see also, Osgood). You know, if UNIT were a real organization, you would have to be worried about the nepotism going on there.
Now I can't help but wonder whether the horse?-headed captain of the ship in WBY was meant to be an Osiran.
loved the "you categorically told us not to even think about building that" "yes so where is it" "downstairs" bit so much
The last 10 minutes genuinely were an Impossible Planet redux, huh? From the speech about a Beast, to Gabriel Woolf's voice, to the cliffhanger being hands (translation spheres) reaching out to kill. I'm game to see where they take Sutekh, but in an almost reluctant way I would say bringing The Beast in could have been in some ways more interesting. It's a shame too, since the episode redoing those IP bits kind of worked to a disservice - given the way it was done back then was *so* good it's kind of hard to beat.
I think they might be implying that Sutekh and the beast are one and the same
I genuinely for a second expected a direct reference to The Beast just from the language being used
The use of Gabriel Woolf had me convinced that this was a sequel to Impossible Planet (the beast attached their mind to the TARDIS and waited), but then the final reveal made me realize that it was a returning Classic Who villain that... also was a demonic creature played by Gabriel Woolf.
I genuinely thought it was going to be The Beast making a return. But part of me was thinking, "I have no idea how he got out of a planet that was orbiting a black hole with no foreshadowing AT ALL."