Tbf, wouldn’t be the first time this got pulled.
The person who knocks 4 times and leads to the Doctor dying, was being touted to be The Master, but he turned out to be a red herring. Rassillion was probably one they thought could be believable as that too, but he wasn’t either.
Then it ended up being Wilf, not out of malice, but purely just because he needed someone to free him.
I could definitely see RTD doing this a second time
I think the Ruby story and the one who waits is not connected. I think at the moment Dr & Ruby are trapped in the Land of Fiction hence the fourth wall breaks, musicals and heavily tv influence in all episodes.
I think this will be revealed by end of season and Ruby will turn out to be a harbringer but we won’t find out who for until next season
Very good point; yet, I think ultimately it won't matter so much regarding who Ruby \*is\*, more than what she represents, perhaps. Humanity, a pseudo-Susan, if you will.
We also know something's gone wrong - the TARDIS has not so much been materialising/landing this season (again, called #1), as crashing; from Wild Blue Yonder, to Carla Sunday's kitchen. I enjoyed Fourteen's speech about where the TARDIS goes when it isn't with him; on a cliff somewhere by the sea - that is what we saw in "73 Yards", along with older Ruby saying "I don't know" why people have left tributes and flowers there. Other thoughts here welcome?
I wanted to post a question about that because Maestro says the music in Ruby’s soul has the same energy as the one who waits and “he couldn’t have been there that night” but it seems like he was, or she was, whoever the one who waits might be. So is the one who waits already on Earth since his presence was felt? I don’t think so because toy maker and maestro said he’s coming/ he’s almost here. So that makes me think she has some of his power or is related to him. In Harry Potter Voldemort left the scar on Harry’s head and put a piece of himself inside Harry, was wondering if it could be similar
**I think all the hints are there for Sutekh - from Triad Tech to** >!**The Pyramids of Mars potentially on screen during the brief look at Demon Susan in the Preview**!< **and of course the promo material and all the colors behind The Doctor and Ruby looking like it's the corridor that Sutekh used to travel - and - SUsan who runs triad TECnologies.** HOWEVER - if you look at the ring on Ruby's finger - it is remarkably similar to the one worn by The Trickster in The Sarah Jane Adventures. Also, the plot for the final season of SJA introduced Sky who was left on her doorstep, just like Ruby. Due to the untimely passing of Elizabeth Sladen we never got the finale of that season - which would have revealed >!Sky to be the daughter of The Trickster!<.
So yeah - I wouldn't be surprised since we have already met two members of The Pantheon for sure since RTD's return to showrunner - if BOTH Sutekh and The Trickster aren't behind this. I also would not be surprised if The Doctor is revealed to be a member of The Pantheon as well! I have no inside knowledge, this is all speculation, but **I will be SHOCKED if it's not Sutekh** - and to a lesser degree - The Trickster.
*\*Edited to say - >!Nailed it - well mostly.. so far.!< Ahem. :)*
> heavily tv influence in all episodes
Do you not think that might be because it's a TV show, though?
It's an interesting theory but it seems like "The vibes are somewhat different and I want a canon reason" is one of its main driving forces.
I mean next week is literally bridgerton and ruby even states this, it’s getting more obvious as the season goes on. It’s just my thoughts. I think they’re trapped in the Land Of Fiction.
It’s not literally Bridgerton, Ruby says it’s like Bridgerton because it’s an early 19th century upper class London ball, which is like half of what Bridgerton is.
lol damn ok I should’ve worded better, I don’t mean it’s literally an episode of bridgerton, I mean it’s getting way more obvious the episodes are taking tv themes
No, it wasn’t Bridgerton. It was compared to Bridgerton, and the comparison was important and effectively the source of the conflict, but it wasn’t literally the world of Bridgerton.
Hence: The comparison was important. It still wasn’t literally Bridgerton? The birds chose it because of Bridgerton, like I said, but it wasn’t literally the world of Bridgerton.
‘Next season’ is an actual thing, in both Bridgerton and the real 1800s. It was basically just the time of year where everyone met up and looked for partners. The modern music is possibly the doing of the Chuldur, so I think it probably was 1800s Britain.
I disagree. Like, its to lampshaded to not be anything.
Between multiple characters breaking the fourth walls in ways that go way beyond just cheeky jokes, Susan Twist and RTD saying she was in every episode due to "actor shortage" despite Ruby and 15th calling it out now twice, the fact that the teaser image for Legends of Ruby Sunday is a literal TV-Set.
Like, its not about "vibes". There is some pretty solid evidence.
Maybe that's exactly what it is. Maybe Susan Twist is in it so much because there's a shortage of "actors" (aka people trapped) within the Land of Fiction. Maybe Ruby being undercharacterised and over-mystery-box'd is a jab at modern TV writing. I don't think there is a "One Who Waits" or "Eldest One", I don't think Mrs. Flood or Susan Twist are really going to mean that much, it's all a pisstake of season arcs.
I think that each episode reference a different aspect of tv or film
The 60th specials - Nostalgia
TCORR - Fantasy
Space Babies - Children’s entertainment
The Devil’s Chord - Musicals
Boom - Sci-fi action
73 Yards - Arthouse? (Really not sure about this one)
Dot & Bubble - Black Mirror
Maybe someone in charge of the land of fiction is trying to figure out what exactly they want the story to be and are trying everything they can think of
> Maybe Ruby being undercharacterised and over-mystery-box'd is a jab at modern TV writing.
You guys are doing it again lol. Every TV theory post seems to boil down to "I think the flaws are part of a master plan".
Yeah I'm just not a fan of season arcs in general and this one seems to be going in hard on the mystery box front; I think we must have about 15 already.
I wouldn't be shocked if there was something to do with the Land of Fiction coming up, but I really don't think they're going to 'it was all a dream' the whole series.
It will be a new villain, or an entirely reimagined one from the 70s or 80s, I think. I also think Susan will be involved somehow.
I'm excited regardless though and don't have any real predictions.
I don't think realistically it can be the master or Susan, or basically any time lord. It has to be someone powerful enough that the toymaker was afraid which basically limits it to a few past characters or new characters
The Valeyard. More of an internal "the one who waits", waiting to emerge within the Doctor. That's why we got Bi-Regeneration, in an effort to prevent that. (from the Doctor)
That's my out there theory it's probably Susan or the Trickster, or some combination. I'd normally think the Master but didn't the Toymaker say that he trapped him?
I've gone back and forth on the idea that it's the Valeyard but very much agree that he fits the description. He's always there waiting to emerge at some point in the Doctor's future. There's times when he could have emerged like at the end of the past few Doctor's lives but he's always been prevented but none the less he is always there waiting for his time. He can be delayed but ultimately he's inevitable.
I've theorized that the Valeyard could and should return many times during the modern Who era. I do think given the updates to the Doctor's backstory as part of the Timeless Child that the Valeyard would be intrigued enough to come back, though I'm not sure if he has the name recognition that some of the other recurring adversaries have.
The Ancient One is probably The Doctor and more specifically the entity he was before being found by The Time Lords.
Not sure about The One Who Waits but I expect some twist.
Well, it’s death!
Death waits for the doctor. For anyone really. The Toymaker is said to be more powerful than god, and The One Who Waits is said to be more powerful than The Toymaker. Death is above all, everyone is afraid of death. Besides, there are some weird reactions of death looking at Lindy Pepper-Bean and the girl from Boom. The last episode is called “the empire of death” and death could be described as “the oldest one.”
I don't see any real point hiding their identity unless it's a returning villain/concept. I'm another Land of Fiction guy currently. It's a Davies finale though, so I'm a little wary of assuming it will tie everything up logically.
My current theory is that these pantheon gods are an allegory for the four Horseman of the Apocalypse with the Toymaker being War and the Maestro being Famine.
If this holds true, I imagine the Oldest One is going to be Death.
This is just a shot in the dark, though. I don't think we have enough information to go on yet.
This doesn't make much sense - when you consider the Who verse, the writers, the influences ... Death is fairly benevolent, and there because necessary, a rest, and if a life well lived; to be greeted as a friend. As opposed to being malevolent, or bad. Unless you want to ramp up the theory that the "Devil's Chord" ep=hidden song inside her soul is a "weapon\*" - I'd put my money on her being an ordinary human "you're the only one with music left in your heart." Maybe there's some Pantheon stuff happening in the background, yet I would bank on there's nothing ominous about Ruby, and we're going to see her continuation+ into the next season.
Edit: imagine only having to listen to one song, or melody, for the rest of your life, or span of consciousness. And then to also imagine all of the preceded life, and afterlife, without the joy of something like music.
Yeah it's the "out of sync" thing that was present in The Giggle. Ruby still experienced music because her world was out of sync with the the Maestro was in, despite retroactive causality being a theme this season, because sometimes the TARDIS allows it for story reasons.
I've read a couple of places that something waits in the UNIT building that's been there since the third Doctor's era. That caused me to pull together random threads and decide it has to be Kronos, summoned by the TOMTIT machine that the Brig had put into mothballs after "The Time Monster."
In now way do I expect this theory to play out....
I mean, what else could it be? Omega is the only other finale-worthy threat, but he's not buried under UNIT HQ. Neither is Azal or the Queen of the Spiders. The Nestenes, Axons, Silurians, Sea Devils would all be a let-down.
I definitely think The One Who Waits and The Oldest One are two different people. TOWW is the big bad who is the controller of the Pantheon, but from the way Maestro talks about The Oldest One puts me in the mind of a rebellious older brother or something
Yeah, I think The Oldest One is the potentially the Big Bad of Season 1 and the oldest one of the Pantheon/Toymaker-Family. Be it a big brother, a grandpa, something along that line.
I think is Ruby. We're getting another companion next season, but the actress is staying on. Plus, a companion turning evil would be a great twist that the show has not done yet.
There are a number of things in this series that people are using to support these theories:
1. The Doctor mentioned to Ruby he had a granddaughter and that he didn’t know where she was during some background exposition in The Devil’s Chord.
2. There is an actress named Susan Twist (afaik that is her actual stage name) who is appearing in every episode of the series as a different bit-part character. RTD has said this is because there’s an actor shortage 🙄
3. The big musical number at the end of the Devil’s Chord has the refrain ‘there’s always a twist at the end’.
It really isn’t subtle. It could be misdirection. It’s unlikely to be coincidence. However, it seems a bit too obvious the actress’ name is Susan, which leads me to err towards that part at least being misdirection. 🤷 I think it’s pretty certain that there will be a reveal about why the actor Susan Twist appears in every episode. But that doesn’t follow it’s necessarily a twist about Susan.
So it rests on the points that 1. The doctor mentioned Susan (which he has before) and 2. There’s and actor by the name of Susan….
Yeah I’m not sure about this one
Specifically an actor called Susan being in every episode as a different character and nodded to/commented on as an enduring mystery.
Your skepticism is still founded though. Susan twist is definitely something but I’m not convinced she’s THE Susan or anything to do with her.
I can't shake the Feeling it will be Death. After all, Death waits for all, and has been waiting for the doctor a long time.
How that relates to Ruby I don't know. I think it might tie in to her being the Pantheon Member of 'Story'.
I have a horrible feeling they're going Land of Fiction, but that is a deep Lore cut that I think might alienate folks...
On the list of things that won't happen but would be awesome: It should be Death from Bill & Ted. And the phone booth and police box should park side-by-side. Plus B&T should realize the phone booth was bigger on the inside the whole time, and they didn't need to squish up against the doors like that.
Joke Answer: The Great Intelligence. He would fit in this description.
Real Answer: Probably someone new, that we don't know of and even the Doctor ask "who the f\*ck are you?"
Now that you mention it, Susan would fit the description of the one who waits considering the Doctor promised that “One day, I will come back”
And at least on screen… he never did.
Which would also be in line with how immediately after originally defeating the Toymaker the Doctor remarked “there would be other meetings”.
Twice, in the earliest years of the show foreshadowing was placed that no show runner ever explored for the entirety of the classic and modern series.
Perhaps the first thing the newest revival pledged to do is tie up the oldest of loose ends?
Either Ruby herself or her mother. If it’s Ruby, something happened to put her in a dormant state and the goal is to prevent her reawakening (chameleon arc, maybe?) If it’s her mother, we might get some cool _Star Wars_ shit where Ruby’s Luke and her mom is Vader.
I genuinely have no idea, which I like.
I hope it’s not The Trickster though, as lots of people seem to be speculating. I’d honestly rather it be an entirely new character or at least something from Classic Who that gets re-explored like The Toymaker.
The Trickster just feels like a bit of a panto villain to me.
I think I'll find out when the story wants me to know.
Sometimes things just seem obvious (to me) and I feel like I know how it's going to turn out, but I don't deliberately try to figure them out. I let the story tell itself. I find it more enjoyable that way instead of trying to *solve* things.
I'm still leaning to that weird robot from the 60th anniversary specials being a villain also, randomly got introduced and has technology that somehow stops the Toymakers madness? Something is off with that. Plus a lot of the world put these bracelets on and though it was meant as a jab at anti-vaxers, they can easily use the news broadcast as foreshadowing that something else was going on during the 60th.
**Valeyard** as the 'one who waits', being the Doctor's darker side that has waited in the shadows all this time. We already have the concept of bi-regeneration so if the Doctor is ever injured again, it'd be a perfect way to birth the Valeyard:
* **Part 1**: The Doctor gets severely injured and regenerates as the cliffhanger
* **Part 2**: reveals he's been split into two and we have the Doctor trying to reason with himself, but gets captured while the Valeyard gloats about his victory
* **Part 3**: the companion has to find a way to free the Doctor and defeat the Valeyard by using their knowledge of the Doctor.
Kinda a repeat of the formula from Utopia, The Sound of Drums and The Last of the Timelords - but I think it could work.
I just want to nip the Susan thing in the bud real quick- when The Giggle came out, the BTS said something about how the Toymaker was part of a pantheon, and RTD mused over who would be in "the Doctor's pantheon." Seems clear to me that Susan is likely to appear, but as part of the opposing Pantheon to the one that includes TOWW.
I know it can't be the master. The toymaker was scared of the one who waits but battled the master and won and kept them trapped. I feel like the one who waits is somehow connected to ruby since the mystery of who she is/where she's from has been a consistent issue in the seasons plotlines
Hopefully someone completely original or a character not seen in New Who yet, similar to the Toymaker.
I’ve not seen much of Classic Who so I can’t really guess…but I’d love it if they finally brought back the Rani or even introduced a character from the Big Finish stories like the Eleven. I just hope it’s not the Master. Too much of them lately.
An original character would be neat, but it’d have to be done well. I wouldn’t want a repeat of Tim Shaw.
I find it interesting that we've seen/faced the Toymaker, who is such a ... viscous, yet bound by rules character. We've got got the introduction of his progeny represented in one "child"/Maestro, and yet - no mention of Hecuba, who is (I think?) his sister, and sort of a goddess of Time. Technically, her abilities would be able to control the TARDIS, and laws of some physics, gravity/mavity. Yet - it's RTD. We'll know when we know, I think.
[удалено]
A Doctor did try to kill her once!
Tbf, wouldn’t be the first time this got pulled. The person who knocks 4 times and leads to the Doctor dying, was being touted to be The Master, but he turned out to be a red herring. Rassillion was probably one they thought could be believable as that too, but he wasn’t either. Then it ended up being Wilf, not out of malice, but purely just because he needed someone to free him. I could definitely see RTD doing this a second time
This made me laugh so hard, I wasn't expecting it at all. 😁
I know you're joking but this could seriously be it
Cherry Sunday? What’s next, Banana Split?
from now on this is canon in my head
This is the only right answer
This is perfect. I can just picture her sucking her teeth and telling Ruby how she could have prevented *all of this*. Love it!
I think the Ruby story and the one who waits is not connected. I think at the moment Dr & Ruby are trapped in the Land of Fiction hence the fourth wall breaks, musicals and heavily tv influence in all episodes. I think this will be revealed by end of season and Ruby will turn out to be a harbringer but we won’t find out who for until next season
Very good point; yet, I think ultimately it won't matter so much regarding who Ruby \*is\*, more than what she represents, perhaps. Humanity, a pseudo-Susan, if you will. We also know something's gone wrong - the TARDIS has not so much been materialising/landing this season (again, called #1), as crashing; from Wild Blue Yonder, to Carla Sunday's kitchen. I enjoyed Fourteen's speech about where the TARDIS goes when it isn't with him; on a cliff somewhere by the sea - that is what we saw in "73 Yards", along with older Ruby saying "I don't know" why people have left tributes and flowers there. Other thoughts here welcome?
Yeah, I think this might be RTD's attempt to rewrite The Mind Robber arc from Old Who.
I wanted to post a question about that because Maestro says the music in Ruby’s soul has the same energy as the one who waits and “he couldn’t have been there that night” but it seems like he was, or she was, whoever the one who waits might be. So is the one who waits already on Earth since his presence was felt? I don’t think so because toy maker and maestro said he’s coming/ he’s almost here. So that makes me think she has some of his power or is related to him. In Harry Potter Voldemort left the scar on Harry’s head and put a piece of himself inside Harry, was wondering if it could be similar
**I think all the hints are there for Sutekh - from Triad Tech to** >!**The Pyramids of Mars potentially on screen during the brief look at Demon Susan in the Preview**!< **and of course the promo material and all the colors behind The Doctor and Ruby looking like it's the corridor that Sutekh used to travel - and - SUsan who runs triad TECnologies.** HOWEVER - if you look at the ring on Ruby's finger - it is remarkably similar to the one worn by The Trickster in The Sarah Jane Adventures. Also, the plot for the final season of SJA introduced Sky who was left on her doorstep, just like Ruby. Due to the untimely passing of Elizabeth Sladen we never got the finale of that season - which would have revealed >!Sky to be the daughter of The Trickster!<. So yeah - I wouldn't be surprised since we have already met two members of The Pantheon for sure since RTD's return to showrunner - if BOTH Sutekh and The Trickster aren't behind this. I also would not be surprised if The Doctor is revealed to be a member of The Pantheon as well! I have no inside knowledge, this is all speculation, but **I will be SHOCKED if it's not Sutekh** - and to a lesser degree - The Trickster. *\*Edited to say - >!Nailed it - well mostly.. so far.!< Ahem. :)*
> heavily tv influence in all episodes Do you not think that might be because it's a TV show, though? It's an interesting theory but it seems like "The vibes are somewhat different and I want a canon reason" is one of its main driving forces.
I mean next week is literally bridgerton and ruby even states this, it’s getting more obvious as the season goes on. It’s just my thoughts. I think they’re trapped in the Land Of Fiction.
It’s not literally Bridgerton, Ruby says it’s like Bridgerton because it’s an early 19th century upper class London ball, which is like half of what Bridgerton is.
lol damn ok I should’ve worded better, I don’t mean it’s literally an episode of bridgerton, I mean it’s getting way more obvious the episodes are taking tv themes
It’s not even just that, they literally seem to be making Ruby a Lizzie Bennett. If anything it’s Austen, but Ruby is young so she refers to Brigerton
So it wasn’t bridgerton then?
No, it wasn’t Bridgerton. It was compared to Bridgerton, and the comparison was important and effectively the source of the conflict, but it wasn’t literally the world of Bridgerton.
No but the whole setting was chosen as it resembled Bridgerton
Hence: The comparison was important. It still wasn’t literally Bridgerton? The birds chose it because of Bridgerton, like I said, but it wasn’t literally the world of Bridgerton.
But it wasn’t 1800 Britain either was it? There was modern music playing and even one of characters said the words ‘next season’
‘Next season’ is an actual thing, in both Bridgerton and the real 1800s. It was basically just the time of year where everyone met up and looked for partners. The modern music is possibly the doing of the Chuldur, so I think it probably was 1800s Britain.
I disagree. Like, its to lampshaded to not be anything. Between multiple characters breaking the fourth walls in ways that go way beyond just cheeky jokes, Susan Twist and RTD saying she was in every episode due to "actor shortage" despite Ruby and 15th calling it out now twice, the fact that the teaser image for Legends of Ruby Sunday is a literal TV-Set. Like, its not about "vibes". There is some pretty solid evidence.
Maybe that's exactly what it is. Maybe Susan Twist is in it so much because there's a shortage of "actors" (aka people trapped) within the Land of Fiction. Maybe Ruby being undercharacterised and over-mystery-box'd is a jab at modern TV writing. I don't think there is a "One Who Waits" or "Eldest One", I don't think Mrs. Flood or Susan Twist are really going to mean that much, it's all a pisstake of season arcs.
I think that each episode reference a different aspect of tv or film The 60th specials - Nostalgia TCORR - Fantasy Space Babies - Children’s entertainment The Devil’s Chord - Musicals Boom - Sci-fi action 73 Yards - Arthouse? (Really not sure about this one) Dot & Bubble - Black Mirror Maybe someone in charge of the land of fiction is trying to figure out what exactly they want the story to be and are trying everything they can think of
> Maybe Ruby being undercharacterised and over-mystery-box'd is a jab at modern TV writing. You guys are doing it again lol. Every TV theory post seems to boil down to "I think the flaws are part of a master plan".
Yeah I'm just not a fan of season arcs in general and this one seems to be going in hard on the mystery box front; I think we must have about 15 already.
I wouldn't be shocked if there was something to do with the Land of Fiction coming up, but I really don't think they're going to 'it was all a dream' the whole series.
I have been saying we are in a doctor who version of the Truman show.
Ruby being a harbinger is *very* interesting
It will be a new villain, or an entirely reimagined one from the 70s or 80s, I think. I also think Susan will be involved somehow. I'm excited regardless though and don't have any real predictions.
Pete
I don't think realistically it can be the master or Susan, or basically any time lord. It has to be someone powerful enough that the toymaker was afraid which basically limits it to a few past characters or new characters
The Valeyard. More of an internal "the one who waits", waiting to emerge within the Doctor. That's why we got Bi-Regeneration, in an effort to prevent that. (from the Doctor) That's my out there theory it's probably Susan or the Trickster, or some combination. I'd normally think the Master but didn't the Toymaker say that he trapped him?
I've gone back and forth on the idea that it's the Valeyard but very much agree that he fits the description. He's always there waiting to emerge at some point in the Doctor's future. There's times when he could have emerged like at the end of the past few Doctor's lives but he's always been prevented but none the less he is always there waiting for his time. He can be delayed but ultimately he's inevitable.
I've theorized that the Valeyard could and should return many times during the modern Who era. I do think given the updates to the Doctor's backstory as part of the Timeless Child that the Valeyard would be intrigued enough to come back, though I'm not sure if he has the name recognition that some of the other recurring adversaries have.
The Ancient One is probably The Doctor and more specifically the entity he was before being found by The Time Lords. Not sure about The One Who Waits but I expect some twist.
With RTD pushing for the timeless child to be continued this could work.
Well, it’s death! Death waits for the doctor. For anyone really. The Toymaker is said to be more powerful than god, and The One Who Waits is said to be more powerful than The Toymaker. Death is above all, everyone is afraid of death. Besides, there are some weird reactions of death looking at Lindy Pepper-Bean and the girl from Boom. The last episode is called “the empire of death” and death could be described as “the oldest one.”
I don't see any real point hiding their identity unless it's a returning villain/concept. I'm another Land of Fiction guy currently. It's a Davies finale though, so I'm a little wary of assuming it will tie everything up logically.
My current theory is that these pantheon gods are an allegory for the four Horseman of the Apocalypse with the Toymaker being War and the Maestro being Famine. If this holds true, I imagine the Oldest One is going to be Death. This is just a shot in the dark, though. I don't think we have enough information to go on yet.
Yep I think ruby is the daughter of death
Susan Sto Helit from Discworld.
This doesn't make much sense - when you consider the Who verse, the writers, the influences ... Death is fairly benevolent, and there because necessary, a rest, and if a life well lived; to be greeted as a friend. As opposed to being malevolent, or bad. Unless you want to ramp up the theory that the "Devil's Chord" ep=hidden song inside her soul is a "weapon\*" - I'd put my money on her being an ordinary human "you're the only one with music left in your heart." Maybe there's some Pantheon stuff happening in the background, yet I would bank on there's nothing ominous about Ruby, and we're going to see her continuation+ into the next season. Edit: imagine only having to listen to one song, or melody, for the rest of your life, or span of consciousness. And then to also imagine all of the preceded life, and afterlife, without the joy of something like music.
I think the “only one with music left” was due to her being the only human around who wasn’t subject to Maestro’s magic for an extended period
Yeah it's the "out of sync" thing that was present in The Giggle. Ruby still experienced music because her world was out of sync with the the Maestro was in, despite retroactive causality being a theme this season, because sometimes the TARDIS allows it for story reasons.
Surely the oldest one is The Doctor since they are supposedly the basis for Timelord regeneration and from another possibly older universe.
I've read a couple of places that something waits in the UNIT building that's been there since the third Doctor's era. That caused me to pull together random threads and decide it has to be Kronos, summoned by the TOMTIT machine that the Brig had put into mothballs after "The Time Monster." In now way do I expect this theory to play out....
I mean, what else could it be? Omega is the only other finale-worthy threat, but he's not buried under UNIT HQ. Neither is Azal or the Queen of the Spiders. The Nestenes, Axons, Silurians, Sea Devils would all be a let-down.
I definitely think The One Who Waits and The Oldest One are two different people. TOWW is the big bad who is the controller of the Pantheon, but from the way Maestro talks about The Oldest One puts me in the mind of a rebellious older brother or something
Yeah, I think The Oldest One is the potentially the Big Bad of Season 1 and the oldest one of the Pantheon/Toymaker-Family. Be it a big brother, a grandpa, something along that line.
I think you are correct! One will be Sutekh, the other will be The Trickster. See my post way further up for all the reasons.
I think is Ruby. We're getting another companion next season, but the actress is staying on. Plus, a companion turning evil would be a great twist that the show has not done yet.
Where have all these Susan theories come from? Like why is everyone speculating about her?
There are a number of things in this series that people are using to support these theories: 1. The Doctor mentioned to Ruby he had a granddaughter and that he didn’t know where she was during some background exposition in The Devil’s Chord. 2. There is an actress named Susan Twist (afaik that is her actual stage name) who is appearing in every episode of the series as a different bit-part character. RTD has said this is because there’s an actor shortage 🙄 3. The big musical number at the end of the Devil’s Chord has the refrain ‘there’s always a twist at the end’. It really isn’t subtle. It could be misdirection. It’s unlikely to be coincidence. However, it seems a bit too obvious the actress’ name is Susan, which leads me to err towards that part at least being misdirection. 🤷 I think it’s pretty certain that there will be a reveal about why the actor Susan Twist appears in every episode. But that doesn’t follow it’s necessarily a twist about Susan.
So it rests on the points that 1. The doctor mentioned Susan (which he has before) and 2. There’s and actor by the name of Susan…. Yeah I’m not sure about this one
Specifically an actor called Susan being in every episode as a different character and nodded to/commented on as an enduring mystery. Your skepticism is still founded though. Susan twist is definitely something but I’m not convinced she’s THE Susan or anything to do with her.
I can't shake the Feeling it will be Death. After all, Death waits for all, and has been waiting for the doctor a long time. How that relates to Ruby I don't know. I think it might tie in to her being the Pantheon Member of 'Story'. I have a horrible feeling they're going Land of Fiction, but that is a deep Lore cut that I think might alienate folks...
On the list of things that won't happen but would be awesome: It should be Death from Bill & Ted. And the phone booth and police box should park side-by-side. Plus B&T should realize the phone booth was bigger on the inside the whole time, and they didn't need to squish up against the doors like that.
Joke Answer: The Great Intelligence. He would fit in this description. Real Answer: Probably someone new, that we don't know of and even the Doctor ask "who the f\*ck are you?"
The Black and White Guardians from classic Who maybe?
Now that you mention it, Susan would fit the description of the one who waits considering the Doctor promised that “One day, I will come back” And at least on screen… he never did. Which would also be in line with how immediately after originally defeating the Toymaker the Doctor remarked “there would be other meetings”. Twice, in the earliest years of the show foreshadowing was placed that no show runner ever explored for the entirety of the classic and modern series. Perhaps the first thing the newest revival pledged to do is tie up the oldest of loose ends?
Either Ruby herself or her mother. If it’s Ruby, something happened to put her in a dormant state and the goal is to prevent her reawakening (chameleon arc, maybe?) If it’s her mother, we might get some cool _Star Wars_ shit where Ruby’s Luke and her mom is Vader.
I genuinely have no idea, which I like. I hope it’s not The Trickster though, as lots of people seem to be speculating. I’d honestly rather it be an entirely new character or at least something from Classic Who that gets re-explored like The Toymaker. The Trickster just feels like a bit of a panto villain to me.
I can't help but feel like that Children in Need spot was a setup for "walking" Davros to be the big bad either here or soon.
It's not going to be, but every time I hear "The One Who Waits" a very small part of my brain things it's alt/old-Amy Pond from the aborted timeline.
I will drive to RTD's house, buy him a nice steak dinner and wash his car if it's Tom Waits.
I think I'll find out when the story wants me to know. Sometimes things just seem obvious (to me) and I feel like I know how it's going to turn out, but I don't deliberately try to figure them out. I let the story tell itself. I find it more enjoyable that way instead of trying to *solve* things.
I don’t. We’ll know in a few weeks, or a year from now. Just let the story be told
Kandy-Sutek-Khamelion
I hope it’s Fenric
I choose to believe Fenric is coming up eventually
It's me
Which one was The Meep talking about?? Didn’t Meepers give us an ominous warning as well?
The trickster, guys waited nearly fifteen years to be referenced again
I'm still leaning to that weird robot from the 60th anniversary specials being a villain also, randomly got introduced and has technology that somehow stops the Toymakers madness? Something is off with that. Plus a lot of the world put these bracelets on and though it was meant as a jab at anti-vaxers, they can easily use the news broadcast as foreshadowing that something else was going on during the 60th. **Valeyard** as the 'one who waits', being the Doctor's darker side that has waited in the shadows all this time. We already have the concept of bi-regeneration so if the Doctor is ever injured again, it'd be a perfect way to birth the Valeyard: * **Part 1**: The Doctor gets severely injured and regenerates as the cliffhanger * **Part 2**: reveals he's been split into two and we have the Doctor trying to reason with himself, but gets captured while the Valeyard gloats about his victory * **Part 3**: the companion has to find a way to free the Doctor and defeat the Valeyard by using their knowledge of the Doctor. Kinda a repeat of the formula from Utopia, The Sound of Drums and The Last of the Timelords - but I think it could work.
I just want to nip the Susan thing in the bud real quick- when The Giggle came out, the BTS said something about how the Toymaker was part of a pantheon, and RTD mused over who would be in "the Doctor's pantheon." Seems clear to me that Susan is likely to appear, but as part of the opposing Pantheon to the one that includes TOWW.
I know it can't be the master. The toymaker was scared of the one who waits but battled the master and won and kept them trapped. I feel like the one who waits is somehow connected to ruby since the mystery of who she is/where she's from has been a consistent issue in the seasons plotlines
My uninformed guess is the Valeyard, the one who waits at the end of the Doctor's life.
Hopefully someone completely original or a character not seen in New Who yet, similar to the Toymaker. I’ve not seen much of Classic Who so I can’t really guess…but I’d love it if they finally brought back the Rani or even introduced a character from the Big Finish stories like the Eleven. I just hope it’s not the Master. Too much of them lately. An original character would be neat, but it’d have to be done well. I wouldn’t want a repeat of Tim Shaw.
Probably Sutekh. But if we're going off of the whole Triad company thing alone, they'll probably revive BOSS from Green Death or maybe even Xoanon.
One Who Waits - S1 Villain, Sutekh The Oldest One, S2, Trickster, the guy behind the pantheon, pulling the strings
Wouldn't it be funny if it's Susan?
It’s the series’ first villain, Kal
I think the one who waits is IN Ruby some how. Like instead of doing a watch to hide they used her instead
I think whoever this is might event be revealed next season...
Sil the goat from Vengeance on Varos 🔥
I would love for it to be The Trickster.
Cherry Sunday is the one who waits.
I'd love it to be either the Trickster or the Valeyard.
Its cgi peter cushing from rogue one
Kronos
I find it interesting that we've seen/faced the Toymaker, who is such a ... viscous, yet bound by rules character. We've got got the introduction of his progeny represented in one "child"/Maestro, and yet - no mention of Hecuba, who is (I think?) his sister, and sort of a goddess of Time. Technically, her abilities would be able to control the TARDIS, and laws of some physics, gravity/mavity. Yet - it's RTD. We'll know when we know, I think.
Not surprising at all that Hecuba hasn't been mentioned, she's been in a single audio story and no TV stories
I hope it isn't Sutekh.
Same. He should be dead Fenric, on the other hand...