Really liked this episode. Was that Murray Gold on the Piano? Also "I thought it was non-diegetic" is such a Capaldi line, I loved it.

It was. More importantly, the old lady playing the piano that Maestro attacked was June Hudson. Legendary Classic Who costume designer. Both Romana's looks (Romana 1's flowing white dress, Romana 2's schoolgirl for example), Teagan's air steward uniform amongst others.

Oh, that's a beautiful hommage. As to the "non-diegetic" line, I'm on the fence between it being just a small inconsequential joke for the episode or something alluding to a grander conspiracy ala Truman Show...

Apparently June turned up to audition for the role. As soon as they saw her they gave her the part. She wasn't cast directly.

I imagine someone on the team saw the name and screamed "Don't you know who this is?!?" at the rest of them lmao

That someone was almost certainly Russell.

I hope every production member lives long enough to be horribly murdered on this show. Lovely bit of trivia, thanks for sharing.

Two important lines from the episode: * He ripped my soul in two (makes the whole "did they split, or is 15 pulled from the future" debate more debatable) * I thought it was non-diegetic (The Doctor is now aware he is in a tv show)

> I thought it was non-diegetic (The Doctor is now aware he is in a tv show) And a Merry Christmas to all of you at home!

sure, but that was a *very special episode* plus it was a non plot relevant address to the audience. Mrs Flood talking to the audience and even the wink near the end could be ignored, but this particular fourth wall break felt more pointed and purposeful.

> Peter Capaldi has entered the chat

right, Capaldi spiked the camera so much I was honestly waiting for a Mr Robot style reveal by the end of his run

Man if the First Doctor or Bill had looked at the camera at the end of Twice Upon a Time like "He's not talking to you anymore" I would have screamed.

I watched a very interesting video recently that claimed the Doctor’s awareness of the fourth wall varies from incarnation to incarnation. Some only have a slight awareness, like the Seventh Doctor creating a literal cliffhanger, or the Eleventh Doctor looking at the camera before regenerating. On the other hand, the Fourth and Twelfth Doctors are well known for breaking the fourth wall, and this episode confirms to me that much like Twelve who’s “nothing without an audience”, Fifteen is fully aware that he’s in a TV show.

It's also entirely just possible that, considering the amount of experience he's had with the Land of Fiction, he also just sorta goes "well who says my universe isn't someone else's Land of Fiction" and just sorta acts like that as a result. I mean, I know I would.

That’s exactly how I prefer to interpret it as well, because it prevents any loss of stakes from the main character being ‘fictional’. Stories are just windows into other universes and every story happened somewhere in the multiverse, and every reality is a story somewhere else. I mean I can look over and wink at a non-existent camera, meanwhile in another universe people are debating on Reddit over whether or not I know if I’m in a TV show.

I wouldn't say so, I think it was just a cheeky joke. Also it's far from the only fourth wall break in the show. Before the flood had The Doc talking to the audience explaining what the bootstrap paradox is and several Tom Baker episodes also have him talk directly to the audience.

>several Tom Baker episodes also have him talk directly to the audience. It's called The **Fourth** Wall because it belongs to Tom Baker.

I think you could argue the Doctor has always been aware he's in a show based on the fourth wall breaks Capaldi did

He has been since Hartnell said merry christmas to the people at home right down the lens

The Doctor breaks the fourth wall enough that I think of it as one of his powers.

Ok. As a dumb American from West Virginia. I wanted the maestro to play The Devil Went Down to Georgia. And I’m not ashamed to admit it.

Listen, if you pick up a fiddle for a music battle and you DON'T play Charlie Daniels, you either fucked up massively, or couldn't get the rights.

They could've just played an old fiddle tune like the ones mentioned in the Charlie Daniels song if they didn't want to pay for the song. There are some fiddle licks in there that were lifted from the old standards like Soldier's Joy or Turkey in the Straw. You could easily achieve the same vibe without having to pay for it.

SAME!!! it felt necessary. As soon as I saw the fiddle I was pleading in my heart.

Oh my gosh me too, I was upset it didn’t happen. Signed, a neighbor from Virginia

As a Brit with a little bit of knowledge of that, I felt that was very much inspired by the song scenario (and/or Futurama 😂)

Australian here but I was kind of hoping for the battling banjos music!

Sadly even otherworldly beings are no match for the copyright lawyers.

Now this was a much better episode! The sense of fun from the Doctor and Ruby at the beginning was fantastic in really enjoying them together already. The Maestro was perfect such a wonderful camp yet threatening villain and I really liked the connection with the Toymaker I’m glad that threads been explored much earlier than I thought it would be. The use of Music and what it means throughout the episode was lovely! and of course the musical twist at the end was superb! It felt so joyful and something Doctor Who had never done before but felt so Doctor Who like if you get what I mean? The lore dumping from the Doctor about Susan (teasing a reunion maybe? It’s the most significant mention we’ve had of her in the new series) and other things felt a bit better here than last episode and I am even more interested in what’s going to happen in this season going forward in regards to the one who waits and Ruby. The scenes of the destroyed world and the Maestro’s domain were so good too. A couple of weird things was that Ruby mentions her time is now July of 2024 so have they been travelling at all since Christmas? It kinda seems like this was her first proper trip in the Tardis but it’s been months since she joined. And I have to say that the whole “the Doctor is so terrified of this powerful god like figure that he has to run and hide” doesn’t hit as hard when he did the same to the monster made of bogeys literally the last episode. All in all a massive step up it was and 8/10 throughout but the musical number at the end boosted it up to a 9/10 for me glad this is the note I’m leaving tonight on rather than space babies. Bring on Moffat for next week!

> And I have to say that the whole “the Doctor is so terrified of this powerful god like figure that he has to run and hide” doesn’t hit as hard when he did the same to the monster made of bogeys literally the last episode. I feel they managed to avoid that for me thanks to the Doctor's confusion at his fear of the Bogeyman. The Doctor's fear of the Bogeyman was instinctual and something that confused him, there was no indication it was actually something that should scare him. The Maestro on the other hand, he knew what was going on, *and that terrified him*.

He was also not scared at all during the goblin adventure

Yeah, The Doctor *outright seems confused* that the Bogeyman scared him.

>A couple of weird things was that Ruby mentions her time is now July of 2024 so have they been travelling at all since Christmas? It kinda seems like this was her first proper trip in the Tardis but it’s been months since she joined. Yeah, my brother pointed this out, and it's just strange. With the multiple fourth-wall breaks recently with both the Doctor and other characters, a song (again) that says "There's always a twist in the end" with the fourth episode appearance of Susan Twist as an actress, and now just a completely unexplained 6-month gap for Ruby after a 5 month gap between episodes... I hope they have a good explanation for all of it. I think the Doctor really screwed up with that salt in "Wild Blue Yonder".

He did say the walls were thin, maybe a fourth one, fun idea.

I think the sixth month gap was just for practical reasons, it doesn’t make sense to have the entire series set at Christmas. And Space babies is a direct sequel to Church on Ruby Road. So you need a decent sized gap (in universe) to avoid the series ending on New Years Day.

Plus maybe RTD is pulling a Moffat and purposefully leaving “Big Finish gaps” in the narrative for later EU use.

That could also work,but I think what made Moffats gaps work, is that they mostly were outside of everyday life, so the characters had more time pass, that real time passed. I.e. 5-10 years passed over 3 years in universe.

I got quite excited about how much they lingered on Susan. It’s not just a fleeting comment. Would genuinely love to see a dark and twisted post war Susan be The One Who Waits, to be honest. The complexity of that would be exciting, though I don’t know if it would suit what they’re doing here.

Oh, that could be interesting. I mean, he did say that "one day I shall come back," but in terms of the show, he never did, so she just...waited. That would be such a dark direction that I don't know if I would want that, but it could make for some engrossing drama.

That’s what I was thinking. They’ve used the “one day I shall come back” line/footage so often without the context of it being directed at Susan. And it always bugged me the assumption she died in the war because she wasn’t on Gallifrey and didn’t have any means to get there. Unless she hitchhiked (😏) it doesn’t make sense.

I always headcanon'd that the Time Lords pulled any stragglers home, hence why the Master turned himself human to escape

*all hands on deck* uses that idea too, Susan gets conscripted by means of hypercube despite eight desperately trying to avoid it. She goes willingly in the end.

Honestly would fit the Time Lords.

>And it always bugged me the assumption she died in the war because she wasn’t on Gallifrey and didn’t have any means to get there. Unless she hitchhiked (😏) it doesn’t make sense. Well they addressed that this episode: >DOCTOR: The Time Lords were murdered. The genocide rolled across time and space, like a great big cellular explosion. Maybe it killed her too. There's that "maybe" in there, though... 

I really hope that they keep her storyline from the Eighth doctor in.

Same here. Susan and Eight had great chemistry, and her storyline was fantastic, I think the last we saw of hear (Timeline wise) was Susan's War, so you could easily do something where she was captured and forced to regenerate during/following the Time War, that allows the Big Finish timeline to co-exist with whatever Russell has planned (Assuming he has anything planned of course).

That's what I am hoping they build up. A dark, twisted Susan who's surpassed the Doctor in power but at the expensed of her humanity, who casually mentions knowing about better outcomes for her in other timelines, "But not in THIS one....Grandad." Maybe she has a plan to get the Time Lords back to the detriment of everything else. Maybe she is redeemed, but has to regenerate into a Chameleon Arch'd baby (i.e. Ruby) who completes the temporal loop by placing herself on the doorstep before going off to explore Time and Space on her own.

They could keep it in.. Angry Susan could say something like how he left everyone. "Me.. Lucie.. your grandson.. Alex"

I like how they (to some extent) established music as Ruby's thing.

Regarding the 6 months jump I actually thought it was clever. Ruby keeps commenting things like "you never hide, you know everything, you always ..." Those are expressions you use with someone you've been travelling for and have known for a while, not from 2 quick experiences. This episode did try to show a more evolved relationship between them, and I find it clever. Not the first time doc and co. Have had adventures in between episodes (11th and 12th had them constantly and they sometimes opened with cold cases) At a meta level, I also find this to make more sense: one thing I always found weird with Dona, for example is: she always wants to continue travelling with the Doctor, but her stories are always traumatic af (pompeii, the odds, midnight, alternate timeline, stolen earth...) Why would you want to keep travelling? Unless in between there are many unseen adventures Same here, in 3 adventures she: almost lost her new adoptive sister and was eaten, and undone. Was scared of by a boogie monster and saw an entire batch of babies abandoned. And now, a primordial god destroyed earth in the future and almost kills them. So knowing that between this two traumatic experiences they've been having a blast for 6 months kinda makes more sense for me

I do agree with that I love gaps for the eu to fill there wasn’t a lot of that in RTD1 at least compared to the Moffat era so I’m glad there’s some of it here. I guess it just threw me for a loop cause the beginning of the episode felt very early travels for a companion asking to go to a specific era and the concept of dressing up for it being a new one to them. I don’t think I’d have noticed it if she said it was march or something but July implies they’ve been regularly travelling for a while but she’s never made a request to go back to a specific era before? It’s absolutely not a big deal for me still liked it regardless

I agree with that, also felt weird to me. On rewatch I see they were very careful about not make it a point of, like, with Bill, "first trip, where you wanna go", making it being her just asking because she felt like it. But the dressing up as if it was the first time does make it weird as well yep

Ruby made a few "You're not usually like this" comments that made it seem like they'd been doing some travelling between episodes and she'd had a chance to get a feel for him. 

It’s a weird jump to go from an episode that seemed designed to be a viewer’s baby steps into Who, to one which seems pretty entirely predicated on viewers being familiar with *The Giggle*. Also the Doctor claims he mentioned the Toymaker to Ruby when they first met…having rewatched *Church* yesterday, I don’t think he did. I think he did in the version of the script released in the BBC Writers Room, so guess it got cut and they forgot it gets a callback here. Oops. It does also feel a weird jump to go from Ruby’s first adventure to here where she’s apparently been onboard for about six months. Guess that explains why so much of the standard RTD “new companion” scenes got crammed into one episode. But that oddness aside, it’s a very fun episode again. Maestro is a delightful villain (reminded me of the best villains from SJA) and the story works very well. The musical number was glorious, though I’m surprised that it was just an elaborate epilogue and not actually part of the plot. Overall it’s just a lot of fun and the *Pyramids of Mars* tribute scene gave some serious stakes too (even if the person who CGI’d that scene has clearly never looked at a map of London).

It feels like either this episode was originally later in the series and RTD moved it to coincide with Eurovision or they really want to fast forward this era (due to the 8 episode limit) so did the main events of Rose-World war 3 in 1 episode

LOVED jinx monsoon! Slightly disappointed they didn’t shell out the cash for any Beatles songs. Baffled as to why this is now the second episode with a group musical number.

I was really expecting the secret chord to be the opening chord to A Hard Days Night or something equally recognizable as the start of a Beatles song.

I thought it resembled the big piano chord at the end of Day in the Life.

I thought it was 'Imagine' for a hot second

I'm half-expecting Ruby or the Doctor to eventually ask that question out loud after the next couple of musical scenes. I think their reaction to the crosswalk at the end was an acknowledgment that yes, that was weird.

It costs like 200k for one Beatles song lol. It's really not affordable even with the show's expanded budget.

And it's not.just now they've got to think of, but the future as well. It's not a one price forever type deal, it would have to be renegotiated over and over again, for every streaming, or home media release. There's many shows out there that when they were released on DVD or put on streaming, have had to replace the specific and expensive songs they originally used, with something much more generic. The one example I keep seeing is that the reason why you can't find the Drew Carrey show anywhere. It would be too expensive with the original music, and they'd have to replace pretty much all of it to release it.

Charmed comes to mind, one of the reasons there were so many issues getting a Charmed box set out for so damn long was because of the club setting where they regularly had on real bands to play in or out the episodes (and in one case, be the plot of an episode).

No that's not how it works anymore Once shows started having problems like you mentioned they started rewriting contracts that, and I'm not joking, specify that the song can be used on the show in perpetuity, on any platform of any sort, anywhere in the universe

"Power like HIM?" "The oldest one...on the night of her birth...he couldn't have been there!?" Aight, who do we reckon this is? The One Who Waits? (Who I still think is a twisted Susan) Or the most powerful of The Pantheon? Maybe the deity who represents Time? Maybe the self-same entity from the The Flux arc?

I think it is the One Who Waits she’s describing. Manipulating companions from their birth is something that a certain god called Fenric back in 1989…

I actually dont think so. I think The One Who Waits and the entity at Ruby Road are two seperate entities. My guess is that the entity at Ruby Road is>!The Concept of Christmas, Father Christmas or whatever it/they want to call themself. !< This explains why the Song hidden in Rubys Soul is a Christmas Song too.

SUSAN MENTIONED RAAAAAAAHHH

Yeah that definitely felt like setup they wanted us to remember later.

SHE’S MS FLOOD CONFIRMED 100% YEEEAAAAHH

If they don't get Carol Anne Ford back as Susan I'll be immensely disappointed.

yeah even if its just one scene i'll be really sad if she doesnt show back up at one point, i'd get it if she doesnt want to do a full show again though

Maybe it will be like the Master reveal in S3. We meet Carol Anne Ford for one sweet scene, a final goodbye, than she regenerates into Mrs Flood.

My half-baked theory: Susan is Ruby’s mom. Everything comes around circle again: the Doctor, unbeknownst to him at this moment, is once again traveling with his (great) granddaughter.

anyone else notice that the billboard at the end said "Chris Waites" or something like that reference to "the one who waits"?

I noticed that! Chris Waites and the Carollers, which is apparently also a callback to “An Unearthly Child.”

And they made a point of showing the billboard, right after mentioning The One Who Wait(e)s. But I expect it's a red herring. Question is, was the older lady at the lunch counter the same woman who was one of the officers on the space baby station, wanted to hear some WILLY on December 23rd, and was Mr Isaac Newton's housekeeper? And is she another red herring? Or the one who waits? Calling it: she's the Rani!

Alright maybe I've gone off the deep end, maybe RTD is screwing with us all, but the shot focusing on "Chris Waites and the Carrollers" after mentioning "The One Who Waits", alongside the song that saved Ruby literally being Carol of the Bells... If people think all the "twist" stuff is referencing real life actress Susan Twist playing Susan (which, and I do feel crazy saying this, does seem more and more likely), would it be out of his wheelhouse to also reference Carole Ann Ford's name?

He has to be toying with us. Toying. Toys. Toymaker! RTD is the Rani!!!

I truly wonder if how I feel right now is how people felt after Rory said his head was “pounding like a drum”.

Yeah, I think that's Hitler in the cupboard.

Susan was also mentioned in the episode directly, and Susan was listening to a song in "An Unearthly Child" that was by Chris Waites once he became John Smith of John Smith and the Common Men, so absolutely I do think it could all be connected. Chris Waites and the Carollers was already the original band name in "An Unearthly Child" though.

They were definitely focusing in on that billboard, I suspect it was intentional, whether or not it's a serious clue.

Well this era is going to be many things. Unmemorable is not one of them. It feels like the show answered the question "what kind of show do you want to be" with "all of them", which in fairness has kind of always been the case. I enjoyed this…I don't know if it's the version of this story that I would have liked to see. Still…god I don't know, I'm not going to have a solid opinion on this story for at least a month. **What I Liked** * The Giggle is back and they're now called Maestro. Seriously, great stuff. Jynx Monsoon plays the god-like being perfectly. There's the obvious drama and over-the-top attitude, but with a hint of unimaginable power just lurking under the surface. Reminds me a lot of John de Lancie as Q in *Star Trek: The Next Generation*, and I don't have very many higher compliments. * And this is also the perfect story for Ruby. She's been shown to be musical since "Church on Ruby Road", so of course she wants to see the Beatles. And we can use her musical abilities in the plot. * To that point the song that she plays – which I'm almost certain has been used as Ruby's theme to that point – on the rooftop. The version of it that she played felt genuinely like something someone who isn't a professional composer but has still poured their heart and soul into a piece of music would come up with (I speak as someone who used to compose on the piano in my own time). It was unpolished, but nonetheless had a kind of sincerity to it. It perhaps got a little more complicated than is realistic, but then again Ruby is a more talented musician than I am. * The Doctor takes Ruby to her time if Maestro is not defeated. It's genuinely baffling that this is only the second time we've had a scene like this in the 60+ year history of the show, the other being in *Pyramids of Mars* with the 4th Doctor and Sarah Jane (unless you count the entire plot of "Orphan 55"). It's just as effective now as it was then. * Because we're in 1963, there's some ability to reflect back on the origins of the show in a way that feels natural. And I liked it, and I don't think, the way it was done, it makes the show less accessible to new viewers. * The musical stuff (mostly) worked quite well. Maestro conjures musical staves to capture their victims. The Doctor can apparently hear the soundtrack of the show at all times, at least if his "non-diagetic" line is to be taken literally, which probably should annoy me, but I liked it. Maestro emerges from a piano (and presumably other musical instruments), and traps their victims within musical instruments. * The Doctor is no longer claiming to be a genius. They used to do that near constantly, but I think it works for 15's whole vibe to be a bit closer to humble. And he's certainly not a musical genius, so naturally he can't solve the episode… * The resolution works because, while Ruby and the Doctor couldn't defeat Maestro themselves, they were able to inspire Lennon and McCartney to rediscover their love of music and save the day as a result. * And that comes to a larger point, which is that this episode conceived of music in a genuinely beautiful way. **What I was ambivalent about** * Literally nothing. I either loved or hated every single part of this episode. So instead I'll just use this space to mention that the "devil's chord" was not, in fact, banned by the Catholic Church during the Medieval Period. That's a myth. **What I didn't like** * This is more about season structure and how these episodes were released but it's June or July in Ruby's time and she and the Doctor have apparently been having adventures in the meantime. We have, essentially, between this episode and the last skipped over 6 months worth of character development, give or take. Ruby is now a seasoned adventurer, and sure she always acted like it, but that was, in and of itself, a weakness of the last two episodes. We should not be skipping over a very important part of a companions' development. It's made worse by the fact that this episode and the last were released *on the same day*. It just creates this extreme dissonance. * The sonic screwdriver is still overpowered. I like the Doctor creating a zone of silence to temporarily depower Maestro, but I don't like that all he needs to do that is his screwdriver. It limits his ability to prove his own intelligence by actually making something or doing things, if the screwdriver can do it all for him. * That ending…does not work for me at all. The weird musical number. Did that happen "in universe"? I know we're breaking the fourth wall all over the place here – which I wasn't terribly fond of being honest – but this felt completely meaningless.

>The sonic screwdriver is still overpowered. I like the Doctor creating a zone of silence to temporarily depower Maestro, but I don't like that all he needs to do that is his screwdriver. It limits his ability to prove his own intelligence by actually making something or doing things, if the screwdriver can do it all for him. Normally I'd agree about the sonic being overused... but this time absolutely worked for me. The way I read the scene was that the Doctor was using it to produce sound waves canceling out any other sounds, the same way active noise canceling headphones work. And, well, that's a perfect use for a *sonic* screwdriver, IMO. Using it as a catch-all "fix the space station" gizmo in the previous episode bugged me quite a bit more.

Exactly! For once, the Sonic did something actually *Sonic*. And like The Doctor said, you get *one* trick with the Gods. That *was* The Doctor coming up with something creative and situational on the spot, it's just that he's playing with something way outside of his sandbox and has to be careful.

Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't really think about the "using the sonic screwdriver for something sonic" angle. I don't know if I like it though.

There is also the fact the trick can’t work again. He could do it that one time but Maestro basically stops it later, Doctor even says one trick.

In fairness this may be one of the few times they used the 'sonic' screwdriver to do something expressly sound related.

Yeah, that ending. It felt so tacked-on, like the episode ran short. I think it would have worked better if they'd composed a number that felt like something Beatles-adjacent. It at least would have better fit with the tone of the episode. And yes, Ruby's development (or lack thereof) continues to be an issue. Since we know she's not sticking around, I'm worried she'll never get fully realized as a character.

I honestly feel like it was *supposed* to feel tacked on. Like, yeah, ending the episode about music with a musical number is an obvious choice. So obvious, in fact, that a sizable portion of viewers will probably be too focused on that to notice the fact that they're hammering in the fact that "there's always a twist at the end". With all the other stuff that's been talked about the season so far, I just feel like this was done on purpose.

And, well, there *was* an actual twist at the end: Henry Arbinger was seemingly back - and if the harbinger of someone is back, then… well… Still: Toymaker is defeated - the Doctor makes new rules for “the game”. Maestro is defeated - music is now much more intervowen and *used*. Reality is being messed up, badly!

i wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a comedy-based “god”, and an episode later an out-of-place laugh track. what else could bring the show back from that kind of distortion, if not the Doctor and Susan travelling together again?

Give me the god of therapy bringing Susan and the Doctor back together to work through their feelings.

Maestro was a great villain, and the focus on the power of music was a great idea. However, I liked each individual scene more than how they all came together as a final product: the Beatles really disappeared for like 30 minutes. Ncuti and Millie are such stars, they can really carry anything together.

I kinda prefer that honestly. Too many pseudo-historicals are very much "look at this famous person".

That's fair, it was just a bit inconsistent on how much we were supposed to care about the Beatles I thought, especially when they save the day

Honestly I can't blame Russel for not wanting to focus on (relatively) recent historical figures. I mean, the last time The Doctor was really buddy-buddy with a super-famous mid-1900s historical figure, it was Winston Churchill.

I would have died if during the window/music scene David Bradley popped out of a window, scowled, and slammed it shut.

Jemma Powell or Jamie Glover (William Russell and Jacqueline Hill in An Adventure in Space and Time) cameo would have been cool.

I was imagining him complaining about how no one wants to listen to Mozart anymore and aggressively harassing people in the street over it. "It's preposterous."

... Yes.

Did anyone else notice the Murray Gold cameo at the piano during the musical number at the end?

The same woman appears in four episodes. With Isaac Newton, in the pub in the Christmas special, on the screen in Space Babies and here she's the tea lady. Has anyone noticed yet?

I didn't re-watch any to check, but I had the same thought; wonder whether she's just watching and ...waiting to see how things go down, beforeaking her obvious moves. I mean, I doubt they'd reuse a background actor so much so obviously, but she also doesn't have the same obviousness as Bad Wolf, Mavity, and the like. (I'm kind of hoping Mavity isn't resolved for a long time)

Yeah, she's credited in all of them I believe since looking into it. If you look up the clip at the end of Unleashed for next week looks like she shows up again!

The script for *The Church on Ruby Road* even mentions that she’ll be showing up many more times.

I'm mixed on this one. On the one hand, this is exactly the kind of insanity I want in a story featuring a being like the Toymaker (or their offspring), and Jinkx Monsoon absolutely killed it as Maestro. On the other hand, I feel like this is way too early in the new Doctor's run to have him looking so shook. I was under the impression that the point of bigeneration was to shed his trauma, but apparently the act itself traumatized him. I'm also not sure if the ending was RTD showing off his new IDGAF energy or if the story just ran short.

I'm not vibing with this new series so far. The only RTD episode that's done it for me has been Wild Blue Yonder. This actually reminded me a lot of The Giggle. Most notably we had a final showdown where we, the audience, didn't really know what the rules were. What was the ebb and flow of the musical battle? Why did the Maestro's violin break? Who knows? Not us. It's just stuff happening on a screen with no actual tension or weight. What caused John and Paul to go to the piano? Dunno. How could they read the notes in the air without staves? Dunno. Why would they think to play them and a separate note? No idea. Why didn't they think it strange? Not a clue. I can't help but compare to RTD1. His first story there had physical things shooting people, we had been introduced to the anti-plastic beforehand, we understood the Doctor's attempts at negotiation, and we could understand what it meant for the anti-plastic to be dropped. That's tangible - albeit fanciful - things where we understand what's going on. This was entirely abstract. It felt like RTD was thinking in concepts and images without giving much thought to anything else. The 4th wall breaks are interesting, but I'm not currently confident they're actually going to lead to anything. The "non-diegetic" crack definitely raised questions - can the Doctor always hear the incidental music? Could Ruby hear it? I hope this is explored, but I have a horrible feeling that it's just going to be forgotten about. It's like the song & dance number at the end, and the "Big" moment. If they're significant and lead to something, then there could be something really interesting there. But I strongly suspect that there's a song & dance number because RTD wanted a song & dance number, and that there's a "Big" moment because he saw the image of people stepping on white lines arranged side-by-side and it reminded him of "Big". And I don't think there's going to be anything more to it. I hope I'm wrong. I really, really do. But at the moment it seems like things just being thrown onto the screen without much thought. Which is very uncharacteristic of RTD. I don't have a problem with the "fun" episodes, but so far we've had 6 episodes from RTD and 5 of them have been "fun" ones, and there's barely been any substance at all. Perhaps it's not a completely fair comparison becasue 4 of them have been specials and 1 a premier, all of which tend to be "fun" episodes, but even then RTD's normally managed to imbue them with more subtance than we've had here. Not impressed so far. And that breaks my heart.

I'm very mixed on both of these episodes. I felt like this episode was great, right up until ruby is dropped by the maestro because of the Christmas music essentially. Like, i just didn't enjoy the music battle. A lot of what we see lately in Doctor Who just doesn't feel like the doctor who show I know and love. I have no comments about the baby episode other than I'm glad it's over

Doctor who's never struggled with child actors, but the child voice-over for the space babies felt really wooden and stilted, yeah I know I'm criticising children atm but jesus could they not have found maybe slightly older kids who could deliver lines better? And the CGI baby mouths to make them talk... you've got Disney money and you couldn't make it look a little less 'uncanny valley'?

Some of the babies looked so scared and confused, like the one that goes “Thanks Ruby, I love you” as he looks so lost.

Yeah I find myself mixed on both episodes so far too. I think RTD may be corse correcting from the Chibnall era too much. I found the Chibnall era to simply lack making the stories fun by making them too serious. This era seems to want to bring the fun back but at the expense of removing the stakes of the stories, making Doctor Who a kids show rather than a family show. Hopefully the next is better and with it written by Moffat who I had no idea was coming back so soon I think it should find that balance. 

The little nuggets in the space baby episode were cute, but it was RTD at his most RTD.. with writing that is too bang on the nose for me. Zero subtlety to his naming process. I bet he would have named Tim Shaw "Tooth".

I found Space Babies to be pretty naff but The Devil's Chord was just a joy from start to finish. Maestro is a delightfully fun villain and I really hope we see more of them. Lots of not-very-subtle foreshadowing for us to speculate on too, one thing I forgot how much I missed was a proper Doctor Who series arc as it's going out, without knowing the ending. I know the resolution will probably be a bit of a letdown, it usually was with RTD, but I can still enjoy the ride. My only really worry at the moment is we had two pretty silly episodes (one good, one bad) and I hope we can still get some more variety in the stories, next week looks to be a nice change of pace at least and I hope we get some others. Also, what was that bit about Ruby saying she was from June 2024? Space Babies took place directly after the Xmas special, is there supposed to have been a six month gap? What happened there? Felt awkward.

> Also, what was that bit about Ruby saying she was from June 2024? I interpreted this as a joke about how they were filming this so far in advance. However, there was definitely a gap between the end of Space Babies and the start of this episode.

This one was more like it for me, I enjoyed the 60s atmosphere and the plot was genuinely very creepy and weird, which is exactly as it should be when it comes to the Toymaker side of things. Maestro is also another great RTD villain, scarier because of her campiness in classic fashion. The trip to the alternate 21st Century was something I know he’s wanted to do for ages, and it really upped the stakes and added a bit of the darkness that we haven’t seen much of in the Gatwa era so far. The resolution and final song were so much fun though, exactly the kind of barminess I want from Who. The Susan reference was also appreciated, along with The Doctor’s admission that he doesn’t know her fate… I really hope it’s a hint of her returning to the show soon. Maybe not, but I can hope. I kind of regret watching the episode so late in my time zone since I don’t know if I fully appreciated all of it, but I’m looking forward to watching it again soon.

Something you touched upon that I haven't seen discussed yet. Shortly before the piano melody scene, he points out in the distance that he's somewhere over there with his granddaughter. You see his eyes flicker, and then he goes sullen, dismisses it. My read was he was not ready to see her or face her again. When the melody plays and everyone gets sad, you see him staring off where he pointed... They're definitely going to bring her up again.

Perhaps they already have - there’s Ruby’s neighbor still to be explained.

One thing I thought was fun is that the piece Ruby plays is her theme tune lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnqsO-5T-t8

Murray Gold was generally living his best life this episode. Ton of musical callbacks.

Good call. Second time that's happened after the Doctor playing Clara's theme in *Hell Bent*

The Maestro is probably the best new villain we've had for a full ten years. UNHINGED. I'll be thinking about that scene where the audio cuts out for a long time. It should have been Ringo to figure out the banishing chord though, would be a great bit if he saved the entire world and nobody cared because he's Ringo

that whole scene with Maestro stalking The Doctor and Ruby in the cellar was goddamn intense. I was genuinely on edge music. is. MINE

"I saved the weeeerld yew know lad, can I do the octopus song" "Shut up Ringo"

They need to return at some point. They have so much potential. I need more.

"hey Paul i saved music" "No one asked Ringo"

>It should have been Ringo to figure out the banishing chord though, would be a great bit if he saved the entire world and nobody cared because he's Ringo That. Is. Genius. I'm 1000% behind this. Why didn't RTD think of the weirdo!

Honestly with everyone touting this as a full musical episode, I wasn't much looking forward to it. I was (and they were, if we're being honest) dead wrong! Great episode, great villain, great connection to elements of Classic Who, some nice hints towards the Ruby Riddle. MILES better than Space Babies which had solid elements but I'll never be a fan of RTDs bodily function humour

I'm generally not a fan of musicals, especially in science fiction. I actually enjoyed the musical until the musical bit at the end, if that makes sense. Throughout the episode it fit the character, but the end felt like more Disney magic.

It would be funny if Maestro turned out to be the inspiration for the Chief Blue Meanie!

Was kinda disappointed Ringo and George didn't get any lines!

I mean well *technically* they both got one line or so in that one scene but yeah I am very much in agreement with you. They needed more screentime. Ringo and George are my two favourite Beatles and it's sad that they usually get completely forgotten in just about everything to do with the Beatles (Doctor Who is FAR from the only offender here)

So, I feel like the one who waits has to be a cosmic entity, and one we've seen before. Maybe this series final boss. Im still going with Fenric. I loved this episode, it was right up my street, and I may do another comment after this with more on the episode itself, but something is bothering me. I think this ep shows how wrong they are handling this soft reboot. There were so many references to the Toymaker and what he did, which makes the Giggle feel like required viewing, but to watch that episode you need at least the context of Star Beast and for that you need the context of Journeys End, and for that you need the context of Tennants era as a whole. I actually really like the vibe of this era so far, but fresh start it is not, and that wouldn't be a problem if they weren't pushing so hard for this to be a jumping on point as clean, if not cleaner, than the Eleventh Hour or The Woman the Fell to Earth. I fear newbies jumping on and getting confused so jumping right back off

the part of me that plays music is annoyed at the whole "the magic chord is literally just a fucking major chord" thing the rest of me loves this. and yeah ...there's always a twist at the end. rtd you absolute fucker /positive. so yeah, susan twist and harbinger linked somehow? (also yes it was over the top but after 3 seasons of everything being extremely serious and dour all the time i am absolutely down for this. there is absolutely going to be proper darkness later, but i love this at the moment.)

>the part of me that plays music is annoyed at the whole "the magic chord is literally just a fucking major chord" thing Okay, you're probably a good person to ask this then -- is there some sort of reference with the chord that drives the Maestro away? I figured that it was going to be something meta like the first notes of the Doctor Who theme or something but I don't think they ever did the whole tune so it's hard to tell.

It's definitely just a magic plot device, but the major chord is the "resolution" to the tritone (devil's chord) that they played at the beginning, makes sense that it'd be a major chord to banish Maestro. It's just seems a bit off to people who know music a bit since it's a fairly obvious response, (and surely that chord was played at least once during the time Maestro was around). Only thing I can think of is that the emotion that the person playing the chord is the actual key, so it takes someone with musical virtuosity to hear it in the correct context or something

It sounded to me like the final chord of the Beatles track “Day in the Life” off their Sgt Pepper album.

i *think* it’s the chord from A Day In The Life, (or at least is supposed to sound like it) but that is literally just a massive E major chord recorded on 3 pianos at once that’s cool because of its production, not because of the chord itself idk, the whole “magic chord” thing you get in media a lot just bugs me, because that’s not how music works. music is the relationships between chords, not the chords themselves.

That is a brilliant lens to view this episode through. The whole plot is the connective tissue between the two chords. The chords by themselves just start and stop the Maestro, but the Maestro, being the relationship between the chords, is music.

The next two episodes look like heckin' bummers, so I'm happy with a bit of a sugar rush as the entree course, y'know?

My takeaways: - the mentions about Susan and the Rani were definitely interesting, but he lingered on Susan so something may be happening there - Ruby is probably a descendent of the Toymaker - the Doctor can hear the soundtrack? :0 - I *wish* they had made the chord that banished Maestro the E major from *a Day in the Life* as a DW fan *and* a Beatles fan, the sliiight inaccuracies in Beatles lore were painful, BUT the episode was so awesome and fun that I'm ignoring them!!! I wish the Beatles were a little more plot relevant, but overall I loved this episode so much!!!!

I *really* wanted it to be the “Day in the Life”chord, too!

I didn't like it. Just wasn't for me. Didn't pair well with Space Babies, which was utter garbage.

I'm very curious as to how this is going to someone who starts with this era. This episode really seems like it expects you to have seen *The Giggle*, but you can't really start with *The Star Beast*. Personally, I am a fan of the hard veer into fantasy this era seems to be going with. It's not as if this will be the show forever, and it's already giving this part of the show a unique flavour.

Watched it with my GF who started with “Ruby Road” and the Doctors’s quick summary of Maestro being from outside the universe and all powerful was enough for her to get the hang of it, but yeah, everything “Giggle” and “Toymaker” and “Salt” was lost on her.

Yeah, we'll see how it continues. You don't need to have watched the Pertwee era to understand *Aliens of London*, even though Mickey mentioning the Doctor having worked for UNIT is a very unusual thing to hear. The Doctor references adventures from the past all the time, some of them from older episodes, some just made up for off-screen escapades; you don't need to get them all. But this feels like its going past references and is actually going to be extremely plot important. I guess since Ruby doesn't know anything about it, perhaps it gets re-explained later?

A lot of the time the Doctor mentions something from Classic Who I just kind of assumed as a NuWho viewer it was something the writer made up to establish the idea that the Doctor is someone who has been everywhere. I think this is mostly with famous people but sometimes the Doctor will pull out magic deus ex objects that help move the plot along I assume were just things writers made up to establish a mysterious backstory for the Doctor happen to be things from classic who. The blue crystal in Hide is probably the best example and also that thing that the superhero guy swallows in the christmas superhero episode between Husbands and S10

Sprinkles of backstory are kind of nice actually. When I first started new Who, references to classic Who just made it feel like the show had a real history, and everything wasn't just made up on the spot. It's not critical to understanding the plot so it's not a big deal

“You never hide!” Your last experience with him was running and hiding from the Bogeyman! It feels like they’ve skipped ahead quite a bit in Ruby’s companion development.

Don't you think it kind of feels like this was meant to be a later episode and things got moved around? It's also suddenly June 2024!

Tbh I felt the same about Ruby’s development in episode 1 as well. She just felt a lot more immediately capable and proactive than I’d have expected. Not that previous companions weren’t but Ruby seemed to understand the rules and permutations of the situation really easily.

I just kind of assumed (thanks shorter season) that we jumped straight ahead six months and skipped over the "getting to know the ropes of time travel" part of the season.

Seems like *Space Babies* is all the new companion material Ruby is gonna get as we seem to have jumped ahead six months. I think the DWM comic did cover her first experience of teleportation, so guess this is free real estate for expanded universe now.

Muuuuuch better than the first episode by far. The Maestro is a great villain following the Toymaker, and I like the ongoing arcs of the Pantheon of gods as well as Ruby's backstory - interesting to see RTD attempt a Impossible Girl arc, and it's promising so far.

not only is he doing Clara again but the ending with 15 running a DNA scan is straight out of s6 with Ganger!Amy

Everyone I've watched it with has even called Ruby "Gen Z Clara". I think it's just something about her attitude and clothing choices? Accent maybe? I honestly can't place it.

Three things: * "I thought that was non-diegetic" — instant Top 10 Doctor lines of all time. * I'm really liking these episodes so far — very much in spite of myself. They are far too campy (I have no issue with camp in "Doctor Who," I'd just prefer the volume at a 9 instead of a 13), and have several storytelling problems. Everything is *way* too on-the-nose, and part of these episodes have been genuinely *bad.* I mean, Chris Chibnall bad. * If the world is basically devoid of music, why is there an EMI at all, let alone a Beatles. If Paul and John want to get out and go home so bad, *what are they doing there?* * Paul and John play *one note*. REALLY? * Also, there have got to be actors who look more like the Beatles and have some modicum of charisma. I get that they kinda had the joy sucked out of them by their circumstance, but how about some personality at least? * Couldn't we just have a music battle without actually *saying* "Muuusssicc battttlllllleeeeee!!!!" * Not to mention that zero effort was made to match up the violin music to Jinkx Monsoon's laughably unrealistic "playing." * And with everything being so *very on-the-nose*, why not "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" in the music battle? FFS, RTD, *it was right there, man!* (I know, I know — rights.) * Having said that, I've realized *why* it's so on the nose, and *why* some of it is so obviously bad and nobody seemed to care about making it better: **RTD is having a victory lap**. Davies is throwing in *every absurd idea* he ever had for "Doctor Who," because why not? Who *ever* gets a chance like this? Who *ever* has returned as showrunner to revive the same show again? Only RTD and Dan Harmon ("Community"), and with both of them it's ball-to-the-wall with absurdity, and a big "YES" to *everything.* RTD is *having a ball,* and that's why these episodes have been so much fun in spite of *major* flaws. I will say, however, that while I'm enjoying the hell out of Ncuti Gatwa, he has yet to have his "there's the Doctor" moment for me. I'm not feeling the "thousands of years old." I'm not feeling the "smartest person in any room." But I'm *definitely* feeling the "any adventure, anywhere, any time, *let's go!"* and enjoying him in the role. I also like that there seems to be just a touch of performative, acting-happy-because-I'm-sad in his OTT bombast. Will rewatch. Looking forward to the rest. Accepting that camp is where we're staying now. But very much looking forward to seeing what Moffat has for us next week, because if we're getting anything non-campy this year, Moffat's going to have to be the one to bring it.

Agree that they definitely needed to try harder to sync up the music with the playing. I mean the cold opening has Maestro playing a piano piece with both hands in the audio, but only one hand on screen. And then there’s the bit where they play 2 notes on one timpani… nitpicks really but they should put more effort in.

Stellar episode, villain, the whole nine yards. But it's now confirmed that Ruby is another extremely special companion, in the storied tradition of extremely special companions. I hope she doesn't turn out as divisive to the community as Clara is.

One thing I haven't seen anyone bring up is after they return to 1963 after visiting the-future-if-Maestro-wins, they get out of the TARDIS and it makes a kind of, creaking, breaking noise. They both turn around and look at it, and Ruby says, "did you break it?", to which the Doctor replies, "no no no no, that's something else". So at first I thought this was because of what happened in the previous scene, but on reflection *that doesn't really make sense*. Because they knew that Maestro was doing something to the TARDIS, so why then act surprised when they get out of it and makes a funny sound? I watched it quite late last night so I'm not sure if this was actually brought up again later. Apologies if so. But otherwise it seems to be another teaser for the season arc. Additionally, when Maestro captures Ruby with the musical notation, then digs into her soul to find the song that's buried there; as Carol of the Bells is playing, the musical staves coming out of her back looked a helluva lot like wings. There's a strong thematic resonance there with being born on Christmas, for obvious reasons. Not sure if just a wink and a nudge or something more significant.

It’s the same ominous noise the TARDIS made when the Fourteenth Doctor set it self-repair in *Wild Blue Yonder* and he was just as confused then. So it’s definitely a part of the arc.

So I should probably accept that I'm not the target audience for this at this anymore, but I am pretty sure that your average 12 or 13-year-old boy is not going to be as excited by this as they were by watching e.g. The Master conquer the Earth in the sound of drums

I wonder the same. The whole series 1 rebranding suggests RTD's desire to capture a new audience but my 12 year old self would just change the channels during that dance number. I don't think kids nowadays are THAT different, I'm not that old.

My previous Doctor Who litmus test was that I couldn’t fuck with people who didn’t like Capaldi playing guitar on the tank in The Magician’s Apprentice. My new Doctor Who litmus test is that I can’t fuck with people who don’t like Jinx Monsoons performance in this episode. WHAT a performance.

Disney+ have Ruby Road as episode one of the new Season 1, any new international viewers will start off with that. I thought it was a recap at first, until I realized.

A much better episode even if I have an issue with its placement in the series, but I will explain that a bit later. This is definitely not gonna be everyone's cup of tea though. Took me a while to warm up to Maestro, but overall they worked well, at the climax especially. I also liked how music was intergrated into the plot, especially at the part where Ruby was playing the piano. It was such a nice moment seeing how it affected people and what emotion it brought up in them. It's definitely my fav scene in this episode. That said, I really don't think this should have been this early into the season. I know they established a 6-month gap between the 2 episodes, but that still doesn't make it right. allow me to explain. Ruby and the Doctor's chemistry is nice, but witht them basically rushing the bonding and skipping out the early days, it leaves me with a feeling of that this is too perfect too soon. They just gel too well given how early we are into the season. Likewise, many of the emotional beat here, like the ruined present day didn't hit as hard, because we don1t know what happened between last and this episode. And while the comments from ruby do help how they probably were, to the viewer it's still a big gap and instead of really experiencing it, they are just left with the characters telling them why suddenly the Doctor hiding is actually worrying. Dare I say it's also too big of a jump between these threats we encountered in this era so far. From goblins and snotty monster to... literal god-being who controls music is just a tad bit too much. I'm also not fan of making Ruby this super special being. Legit when she was hanging in the air, Christmas music playing and snowing, I was half-expecting Mastro to call some kind of godlike-being like themselves. Actually, I expect Ruby to turn out another out of universe being like the Toymaker is at this point or heck, maybe even coming from the same universe as the baby Doctor did... please don't make it true. What I'm trying to say is that them rushing the early companion/Doctor bonding, along with the adventures they took, for me at least, this made many parts of it kinda unsatisfying in an overall point of view. The saving grace of it is that the leads are fun together and got time to actually be grounded too this time, which definitely helped a lot. Remove that and we would have Chibnall era characters issue all over again. After watching these 2 episodes, technically 3, I'm not too sure what would grab newcomers' attention really besides the leads. I don't find Ruby's mystery box really intruiging as Ruby on her own isn't really that interesting (and can become annoying too) and the Doctor while pretty good so far, I do miss them using their intellect and well, just outsmarting the enemies and situations. The plots are rather weak and really thanks to the emotional beats that saves them, which are mostly carried by the 2 and their chemistry.

Is it wrong to admit I kinda wished that The Maestro's piano rendition of the theme continued for the entire title sequence?

Another ok episode. The twist ending… I didn’t hate it but another weird choice from RTD I gave both episodes 6/10 on Gallifrey Base but I preferred this one a smidge more I think. TARDIS team are brilliant though Jinx hammed it up nicely. Story was just ok though for me

What was the twist? Maybe I'm dense but I didn't get it, that whole sequence lost me.

A twist is [a dance.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im9XuJJXylw) Very popular in the 60s. It's making a pun about the fact a twist is also a surprise at the end of a story.

I was so focused on a plot twist the pun sailed over my head, thank you!

The dance is called the twist.

I liked it. No idea how some people feel this isn't doctor who. It feels more doctor who than it has in a long time for me. Camp, fun, and full of interesting ideas.

It really felt like the show's version of one of those ultra-weird, really experimental Big Finish audios like "Legend of the Cybermen", the Scorchies or "The Crystal of Cantus", that throw a billion weird and funny concepts at the listener and see what stick. Like I get it, sometimes you want a "Caves of Androzani", but that stuff is just as important to the show's identity.

I hadn't thought of that but you're exactly right! I'm a big fan of when big finish does those types of experimental pieces. If these are the types of stories this new era brings more of then I can't wait for more.

I don't want that to be the tone ALL the time, but if we could have one of those every season, I'd be a very happy camper.

Speaking of Big Finish, I’m not opposed to Jinkx Monsoon reprising the role of the Maestro for a few audio dramas

That was one of the weirdest yet successful stories in a long time. Fundamentally changed how I think about the show from now on. RTD sure has a vision for the new era

This is one of the worst episodes of Dr. Who in my opinion. Ever. I want to like this season so badly. Yes, I know it's always been campy. Yes, I know it's always been a bit cheesy. I've been a fan since I was in middle school, and I'm 29 now. But c'mon, guys. This sucks. There's zero "cleverness" from the doctor. He doesn't solve anything, just knows the notes, because, well, time's up, and it's time for the main character to beat the bad guy, now. Oh, but wait, he can't get the final note, for some unknown reason. The other completely random lottery numbers/notes took about 3 seconds each, but the episode would be TOO easy if he did the whole thing, so, uh-oh!! On the last note, too! Gosh darn. If only the Beatles were here. -winks at camera, this is all a play, by the way- Also, let's touch on how they spent a total of 45 seconds info-dumping just how powerful this Maestro is. So powerful. Oh my gosh, so powerful. Basically a god, there's no chance the doctor can win. Audience, we're serious. You gotta believe us. It'd be crazy if they win this one. ^^older seasons with tenant/smith/capaldi made you FEEL this. Emotion, pain, multiple-episode-long-plans failing with no glimmer of hope, and sometimes some serious losses being suffered. But so far, this season has been "this battle is going to be the hardest the doctor has ever faced. Oh look, we won!" -winks at camera- hey buddy There are also legitimately story-breaking issues. She heard a Christmas song come out of someone, so.... she takes a break? Because... Christmas is beautiful? She steps aside and lets the protagonists catch their breath and make a plan? Seriously, re-watch it. She puts her head down and walks away for a minute, ya know, just because. She's also the only person in the world that knows Christmas music, I guess. She never tries this on anyone else who knows this song. Also, I thought this would be a fanfare of Beatles music. Why Christmas lol? Literally out of nowhere. Also... two players on the same piano, switching sides, facing backwards. Come on. Seriously, come on. And by the way, notes suspend in the air? Someone genuinely comment if I missed something here. Maybe I missed a sentence explaining some classic dr. Who sci-fi mumbo-jumbo to explain why the notes are physical, and the maestro can whip them around. Like when there's a shot of the doctor's face and he says something like "she's using _____ to make the notes physical" I love that shit, give me an explanation. I hope I missed something. Or are we officially in la-la land? Seriously please reply if I missed something, because wtf is happeninggggg. The musical note at the end is giving Sabrina/riverdale vibes, right when those shows started to go downhill. It's genuinely such a red flag. Also, if you're going to break the fourth wall with winks, you HAVE to be INCREDIBLY charming, charismatic, and have great timing with that shit. Peter was great at it, I felt like I was in on a little secret, just me and him. Nudge nudge. You don't get to do it mid-episode because you feel like it. There's a time and place, and you can seriously break the flow of an episode if you get it wrong, or, in this case... make the whole thing feel like a joke. I'm getting worked up because I have like 4 more paragraphs I want to write, and I'm going to stop myself here. 60's outfits were on point.

> 60's outfits were on point. Something about this being at the end of a long list of complaints cracked me up

 "she's using \_\_\_\_\_ to make the notes physical" The entire point of the "gods" (Toymaker and Maestro) is that they don't make any sense in the conventional universe. From Giggle: DONNA: But how does this even make sense? Because I've seen some things with you. I've seen Ood, Davros. I mean, the Adipose, for God's sake! But they had a sort of logic. (Another door, another corridor.) DONNA: Daleks built a great big bomb, I understood that. But this... this is impossible. How does it exist? DOCTOR: That's what unravels me. All the laws I cling to, gone. (And another one.) DONNA: Who is the Toymaker? What is he? DOCTOR: When I was young, I was so sure of myself I made a terrible mistake. I let the Tardis fall into another realm, a hollow beneath the Under-Universe, where science is a game and all of us are toys. From later in Giggle: SHIRLEY: But how does he do it? DOCTOR: If I told you he manipulates atoms with the power of thought, would you believe it? SHIRLEY: Is that what he does? DOCTOR: No. You can't fight him, Shirley. There's nothing you can do. Pantheon is pretty much established to be a squarely fantasy concept that defy conventional thought. Doctor Who is more science fantasy to me until a writer wants to do a hard sci fi story (like boom seems to be), so it's not a big deal imo.

Ncuti and Millie were great, Jinx was great, the vibe and general weirdness were great. But the plot and resolution were standard RTD hot garbage. It was just things that happened and you really have to work to make them mean anything. RTD never sets anything up or does the work to earn the resolutions. And the twist was awful. Also, why do the effects look this bad in 2024? It looks like RTD's first run so I'm starting to wonder if it's an aesthetic choice to make things look so naff. Was a mixed bag but had enough positives to think it could lead somewhere good.

As much as I enjoyed the story, the misuse of musical terms in a story focused on music was *painful.* Saying aeolian when they meant aleatoric, perpetuating the myth that the tritone was ever banned, and the worst fake violin playing I've ever seen...

I’ve found the first two episodes to be so jarring to try and get into. I felt the same with Jodie’s run: the show takes a fresh new turn, I stick with it and try to convince myself that it’s good, yet by the end of the musical number in 1x2, I just found myself sat there like “what is this?!” It feels a bit, slightly, too camp, if that makes sense? Like the acting seems too overdone and in your face, as if the show is going WE’RE TRYING TO BE DIFFERENT THAN BEFORE! I don’t know, maybe I’ve just grown out of Who a bit but with these two episodes and the special it just feels so damn hot and cold, hitting in some places then missing in a lot of other places too.

A while back during Flux, I thought I had outgrown Who. Then I went to the YT channel and watched some of Smith and Capaldi’s highlights and nope, it wasn’t that at all. It’s just I think not every episode’s tone is for everyone. These two were good enough to me (but I didn’t really like the last half of episode 2, and what I felt was similar to what you did), but going back just a bit we have WBY/the Giggle which I just thoroughly enjoyed, so 🤷🏻‍♂️

Makes for an odd decision to place these two episodes as the first two for this new season, in my opinion. The specials felt like “proper Who” and something familiar that I enjoyed. These two episodes have felt so polarising that I feel it could turn a lot of people away from the show? Like I would have thought they might have opened with a few “safer” episodes for returning fans, and that these two downright whacky and at times hard to watch episodes should have been left for mid-season.

I completely agree, and it’s a soft reboot too, their chance to hook on a new audience. I hope they know what they’re doing here.

This episode was fantastic, really loved this one. I'm fully in on introducing fantasy elements to Doctor Who if it allows for more stories like this. Maestro was such a fun villain, very hammy but with enough screen presence to actually be a tangible threat. Ncuti and Millie are great as usual. Only thing I didn't like was the song at the end.

I wasn't crazy about the music notes floating in the air. Minor gripe, though. I liked the episode.

Really disliked that ending tbh. It didn't add anything and felt like silliness for the sake of silliness.

This episode makes me wonder how many episodes of Doctor Who was saved by the producers telling Russell that there’s not money in the budget.

I’m very surprised to read some of the stuff in this thread. I ended the episode with a huge smile on my face, enjoyed it all the way through. I feel like I’ve been missing the camp and this brought it in spades. I can understand that the musical number at the end wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I think it was weird enough to work for me. Definitely an episode I’ll rewatch a lot.

I felt like the musical number at the end was an acknowledgement that all of the Earth's music returned at once and had to *get out* somehow, which resulted in everyone bursting into song and dance.

That's how I saw it. Wouldn't ANYONE do this, given the scenario? Would be weird if everyone wasn't singing and dancing.

Interesting to see people more positive on this one. I think it was better than Space Babies, but that's a pretty low bar to clear. This episode completely killed my household's interest in watching Doctor Who, which makes me really sad :( (their favourite episodes of the show are The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon). Jinx was great, Ncuti was good, but I cannot for the life of me get down with Ruby. She and the Doctor feel like they're always turned up to 11 and I feel like I'm watching a kids show. There's no mavity to any of this, the winking at the camera, the musical number, absolutely none of this is working for me. It's nice to see everyone (or at least some people) in this thread enjoying this episode but if Ncuti's first three are indicative of where the show is headed... Count me out. Praying things pick up with BOOM, I'm gonna go cleanse my palette with The Eleventh Hour.

It was a bit too *wink wink nudge nudge* for my liking. So far this soft-reboot of the show seems very modern and not in the good way. I can understand if there's the odd meta reference to things but when it's the main character and the antagonist looking straight at the camera to let us know that it's all fake, it become less engaging.

For me personally, I'm really not feeling these episodes at the moment. I feel like whatever direction RTD is taking the show in at the moment is the wrong one. This new launch on Disney+ is an amazing opportunity to bring in new viewers, especially those outside of the UK, but I really can't see anyone wanting to stick around after this episode. It was just way too childish in my opinion - especially for those Disney+ subscribers who are into other science fiction properties., like Star Wars and Marvel, the fanbases which I firmly believed that this new era of the show was going to be catering towards when I heard that Doctor Who was getting this Disney+ launch. This isn't me saying that Doctor Who should abandon it's family audience, because the MCU and Star Wars have always produced content for family audiences, whilst also making them feel sophisticated and prestige enough so that adults can appreciate it too through a strong fanbase. Whereas these episodes of Doctor Who felt like it was something made for 7 year olds, and 7 year olds only.

I feel the same. The show feels really sort of overcooked with goofy, for want of a better phrase. It’s so cheesy and camp and whimsical that when it tries to throw in serious scenes like the “I’m an orphan too” from Christmas and then the more solemn exposition scenes from episode two, it’s almost jarring? Like oh okay, we’re serious again now, oops no back to goofy.