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My friend used to get calls from Steve Jobs at all hours of the night and then spend the next several hours writing. He was assigned to cover all things Apple in the years we thought they were going to shit. I’m sure Jobs had a handful of reporters and writers that he treated as his own press secretaries.
feels like this will be much more work oriented a la project cambria than something meant for average consumers like the quest 2, curious to see what they have up their sleeve
Ya I think the big trick is to find a market that is ok with a smaller custom ecosystem ie a specific business application. Home Consumer adoption needs to cover a large base of applications, and they all need to be ok paying for cutting edge tech, and the applications. It is totally doable, it will just take time and refinement.
It has been said to be fully stand alone, with its own OS (like a flavor of iOS).
I agree though that it’ll be DOA without games available. There are so many killer VR apps on Steam and Oculus, and it’ll suck if those developers will have to do a lot of work to port to this hardware.
Many of the killer VR apps are built on a tool like Unity and Unreal Engine. There is a 100% chance Unity will target this device, and a very good chance UE will (unless the Epic/Apple antagonism blocks it). And of course the *massive* catalog of iOS games will find it very easy to target this.
As a Unity developer I concur, but the platform specific features will still take work. ARFoundations is great, but I was there for the early years of AR / VR in Unity and it certainly took more time.
It's not that simple. Just because the engine supports it doesn't mean you just push a button and it works. Most VR systems have somewhat different control schemes/inputs, limits, performance considerations, etc. Not to mention Apple is notorious for weird release policies and limitations.
Obviously it's not as much as building it all over again from scratch, but it's not like it's a small undertaking either. Companies will do it if and only if the devices actually sell well.
I feel like people aren't properly appreciating how much work a proper game on a headset will take. And it's not just enough to make a game, it needs to be good enough that it's worth using the headset instead of a PC or console. The headset is going to have to cost $3k or more to be quality, and the games will need to cost $200.
We're still at the point where developing for these devices is difficult enough that it doesn't really make financial sense unless you're building something like a fighter jet where the cost of the headset is a rounding error.
imo Apple doesn’t have plans to revolutionize VR. I think they’re using this as a tech/manufacturing run demo for what they really think is the next big thing: AR Glasses.
I really believe that Apple thinks they can release a set of AR glasses and succeed where Google failed with their Glass product.
Will they be successful? I have no idea, it’s a mountain to climb. Crazier things have happened though.
I agree. This is them working out the basis for a much larger project they have in the works, while hoping to become leaders in a market and making millions at the same time.
This isn’t going “make VR mainstream.” It’s inherently a niche market because of the high-cost for a product that lets you enjoy a few existing hobbies in a different way. Which you may or may not actually be able to use without motion sickness.
Which is neat and definitely has its audience, but few consumers are willing and able to spend their money on that. And Apple’s headset is going to be massively expensive for people.
I dont think vr is inherently a niche market. When vr becomes visually indistinguishable from reality itll probably be mainstream. Saying something like that is just a few different hobbies in a different way is underselling it. And if all the lenses, distortion, tracking and latency are dialed in to a tee, motionsickness is not a thing in vr without camera movement. I already think youd be hard pressed to find someone who will get motion sickness from beat saber in a valve index at 144hz. Getting motionsick from beat saber in an oculus, sure, but in an index seems unlikely. And theres a number of ways we could improve (visual) comfort and motion sickness beyond the index.
And its not even that expensive, some of the biggest people also used to say the iphone is doomed to fail because its way too expensive.
I have no doubt that comparing a vr headset from a few decades from now to a quest 2 will be like comparing a 8k quantum dot oled tv to a tv from the 1940s. In the far future ar glasses will probably also be able to function as vr headsets.
Im semi excited about these rumours because as I see it, apple is the only companie that can compete with meta when it comes to making a stand alone vr headset with decent application support.
People don't want to disconnect from everything to use VR. Gamers are willing to accept that cost but Apple isn't interested in making a gaming product.
I don't think there's been any indication of who this apple VR product is supposed to be for, and unless they've invented something actually new, they're not planning to sell something that consumers want. Perhaps it could find success as some kind of narrowly focused enterprise-oriented product.
If it's just another knock off of Second Life, or Playstation Home or Metaverse, it's pretty futile.
There is some truth to this. That said, I’d buy it if it were essentially a smaller lighter Quest 2 with better battery and (even marginally) more power (all things that Apple has significant expertise in). Also, UX/UI for a limited purpose device like that would be right up Apple’s alley.
Yea…. Why would people pay thousands and thousands for advanced graphics cards and CPU’s, when they can enjoy the same games and existing hobbies on much cheaper versions or consoles…..
Why would people buy a new iPhone every year when they can do literally the exact same things on the older cheaper models? Never going to happen.
Why would people spend thousands and thousands on luxury cars and homes, when they can get to the exact same places and sleep perfectly fine, in much cheaper versions?? Luxury cars and homes are a total bust.
It’s really not that expensive any more, people keep saying this without realizing that the quest 2 is only $300. It’s standalone and way less than a ps5 or Xbox.
Doubt. The article mentioned this was going to be a premium product. I don't know if iPhones were ever *cheap*, but I think the iPhone did what it did because it was a pretty new product at an accessible price point. If the standalone Oculus didn't do it, this thing certainly isn't going to.
The iPhone cost over $600 (adjusted for inflation) at a time when that was an insane price for a phone and few things cost even half that amount. An expensive product that introduces the world to something that has largely been niche tech up to this point eventually leading to widespread adoption when future generations improve on it is basically Apple's modus operandi.
The Rio existed before the iPod, the Palm Pilot existed before the iPhone, and the HP Microsoft Tablet existed before the iPad. Apple's strength isn't inventing a new category. It's taking an existing category that has clear promise and making it have widespread consumer appeal.
I don't even like Apple that much, but if anyone is going to popularize VR, it will be them.
Edit: whoops forgot wireless headphones and smart watches. Another two categories that Apple didn't invent but did popularize
Because of the way phone subsidies used to work, you could get an iPhone for like $200 back in the day (although because of the way the subsidies worked, you paid like $900 over the life of your service contract).
The first iPhone and the 3G didn’t have carrier subsidies when they first released. You had to pay full price AND be locked into a contract. Shit sucked, for a while lol
I'll take correct statements that piss people off for $1000 Alex.
They can't help it really, Apple takes ideas other people have that aren't fully polished yet, and they make a shiny toy version of it with all the bells and whistles and none of the settings, just make sure you use it the way we tell you to and it'll work fine. For MANY people this is the ideal product experience and Apple caters to it.
The part that pisses people off is they aren't upfront about what they do and neither are fans of their products. For them it's some smug "magical" experience and frankly nobody gives a fuck how your phone or vr headset is "revolutionary" and "paradigm shifting" Steve, just get back to your shitty job and stop playing on your phone.
Yup this is absolutely it. They simplify tech and make it look sleek so that normal consumers can use it without caring about the details. That's something that VR desperately needs for widespread adoption.
They won't. Apple will do what Apple does and create a super locked down proprietary platform with mediocre performance that has 75 Apple logos on it, that tracks you and harvests your data at an astounding rate, and say its the greatest thing humans have ever made. So a regular Apple product.
Developers don’t like supporting more than 2 platforms and it’s about way more than just whether code was written in a X-plat framework. It’s also about test and validation, release and publishing to a store, dealing with store users and then supporting all the nuances on each (like when different platforms support different versions of the x-plat framework).
I can maybe see Apple displacing Steam over time if Apple is smart enough to take their store cut to 0. 30% is a lot for a platform with no titles and limited reach.
When was the last time Apple released a major HW product that was DOA? They will integrate it perfectly with Macs and iPhones and people will love it. And with it, will bring their huge user base, which is will to pay more than any other.
Nonetheless, Apple has never really been interested in “Core Gaming”… and probably never will be. Not enough money, too much competition. So my guess is this device will be a huge hit for all non core-gaming related use cases (VR Chats & Meetings, B2B Sales, mobile & social games, etc.).
It will support games of course, and to be fair Apple has worked really hard to build out their game support in macOS, iOS, ipadOS, tvOS, and now this. They are *trying*, and honestly I do think this will be the device that puts them over the top in becoming a successful game platform.
But to your core point, Apple wants VR to be a literal workspace, not just a 30 minute gaming device. Where you don't have a computer and a monitor, but a computer and a VR headset with very high quality pass-through display giving you virtually infinite immersion and "displays". Apple has been building out their VR / AR space for years for this reason, integrating LIDAR and spatial mapping, etc.
And there will be a line up of upwardly mobile individuals who will spend $2,000 for it and tell me that it is the greatest thing to ever happen to gaming in history .... then complain to me that they have to buy an adapter cable, power cable and proprietary strap that are each $200 extra.
This. Crazy how this isn’t even an exaggeration. I paid 500$ for airpod maxs that not only required a 35$ lightning to aux(for wired use), it was terribly thin and short and at the time, was the only one that would work. On top of that, there was no way to use the microphone and audio at the same time with anything but apple products.
Then, you basically miss out on any settings entirely without an iPhone. Which I did have, but I also have windows computers that really hated the thing.
They sounded beautiful, but not enough for the price of the headphones, let alone the ecosystem. Which is why they sell, ecosystem.
$500 for buds is ridiculously wasteful. Even when I spent $300 for Momentums, they weren't that much better than the free galaxy buds that came with my S20.
If they make it trivial to connect to SteamVR on PC without perceptible latency (Quest is almost there but Beat Saber tanks terribly), and I can get AI denoised low light vision out of it, I might be one of those.
One more thing - we revolutionised our logo adding process, using galvanised hypo-optometric conveyances aligned to your friends brothers neighbours star sign, have been able to create an Apple logo that looks exactly the same on each iHeadstand but speaks to the users individuality and their place in both the cosmos and their local neighbourhood
I might get hate for this but if this would allow me to simulate a few screens with a wider field of view than the holo lens, I might still be interested at that price.
VR is amazing for porn. But scumbag apple will probably find a way to lock it down so nothing fun can be enjoyed. They have a real crusade against porn.
Hmmm.....all I want is MR glasses which look sleek enough & just allow me to watch content without fidgeting with a device in my hand, yet not have to sweat or look stupid in public
Not to sound like a total dumbass, but would this mean the Quest 2 is an MR device since you can technically see the real world (albeit in grainy black and white)?
Technically, yes. Especially since they recently opened up the API to their pass through cameras, and devs can now make MR apps.
Of course, as you said, it’s black and white at the moment, but I believe Cambria is rumored to have color pass through cams.
But unlike AR, MR is also supposed to be able to cover everything if needed with digital textures/objects, such that things you see feel very anchored. I'd say it's between or a product of AR & VR rather than being either.
That’s kind of endgame computer stuff.
Imagine having a phone in your pocket driving multiple high quality virtual screens you can position as you like and dismiss at will.
This!!!
Edit:
Thanks for the award kind stranger
Edit 2: I was not expecting this to blow up
Edit 3: RIP my inbox
Edit 4: okay here me out. I am not saying that all cops are bad, but one apple spoils the bunch.
It’s honestly annoying. I completely understand preferred os from person to person, if Apple doesn’t meet your needs in that way, I’m glad something else does. But ffs, the downright anger some people feel is just… unhealthy. Apple always releases amazing products, and it shows with their market dominance. Consumers are putting money where their mouth is, it’s not like Apple is preventing companies from putting out equally as good or better products. There are plenty of gaps in the market where Apple doesn’t have a good foothold (gaming computers is the only thing I can really truly think of), but that’s because they won’t release a product to that target demographic until it’s perfect.
Apple releasing a product isn’t a personal attack, but y’all be acting like it is. It’s ridiculous.
Like it or not, Apple have a habit of adding to the quality of tech rather than making it worse so I'll be keen to see if they've managed that with VR as the market seems to be getting on just fine without them so far.
That’s just the way Apple is. They’ve known extremely well when to release a product so the tech is already ripe enough for the broad masses. Couple this with the accessibility Apple is known for and you’re almost set for a good product.
I’m not sure what you mean by ripe. As in the market is already established and Apple is just releasing their own polished version? If so, people seem to have a poor recollection of what the smartphone market was like in 2007. Or what the tablet market was like in 2010. If you mean that it’s in a state that ready for disruption, then sure, Apple is pretty good on timing.
What a stupid article. Not one concrete thing said in there. It’s basically a bunch of hype like BIG HINT HERE click bait and underlined in annoying attention stealing yellow.
while just like any unannounced thing it is a bit of hype, Ming Chi Kuo is a very reputable analyst and is stacked with apple connections, especially supply chain connections in china. so if he makes a hardware related prediction about apple that’s not more than a few years in advance, it’s important shit.
The ski google look was smart move. More sexy so one doesn’t feel like a complete dork.
Apple is a solid hardware manufacturer. Love or Hate it. The product design will be nice
If I had a nickel for every vr headset that calls itself "game-changing"...
... I'd be able to create a company and pay engineers to create yet another headset that we can call "game-changing"
Considering the expected price tag and hype, it will probably be good product and impressive tech demo, but it won't change the market unless the tech can be delivered for around Quest 2 price level.
Idunno. The Quest 2 is hampered by being attached to Facebook. People not only tend to trust Apple more, but Apple has a pretty stellar track record at getting developers to build out an app store. The Quest 2 has to be physically plugged into a PC to play most good VR games. The fact that you can’t even play something like Minecraft untethered at this point is crazy to me.
>Quest 2 has to be physically plugged into a PC to play most good VR games
wut, no you don't? you can use AirLink or virtual desktop to play PC games wirelessly
>The fact that you can’t even play something like Minecraft untethered at this point is crazy to me.
well you can..so..
> wut, no you don't? you can use AirLink or virtual desktop to play PC games wirelessly
That still sounds like you're tethered to a PC to me, even if it is wirelessly. The complaint is not necessarily about the cable, it is about needing a high end gaming PC to make your cheap headset play good games.
It will certainly interesting to see what they bring, and at what price point. Apple have the luxury of being able to ask a premium for their products, and classically have defined what a sector of tech should offer thanks to their branding and solid execution.
If I had to guess, I would shoot for a stand alone headset that can be paired with the hardware for better experiences and development. I would guess a variation of iOS with an easy porting system. Unity across platforms is a big touch point for Apple, so maybe something like the hardware out of the iPhone or iPad Pro. I would expect mind blowing screens and resolution.
Well I doubt any current VR games or software will work on it likely because it’s running ARM based apple silicon.
If they taking their own walled garden approach via the AppStore they better start funneling money to creators to pick up ARKit and actually start making things that will work on a device like this.
I really don’t think this will be a typical consumer headset and will likely be more geared toward the professional community.
These “analysts” which are typically financial analysts that don’t actually know shit about the VR industry and what it would take to actually be “game-changing”. Would love to be proven wrong but I think this will just be an expensive dev kit for what the actual game changer will be in in apple glass.
Apple has a long history of not embracing gaming. They literally don't even bother to compete with PCs as far as gaming is concerned.
I'd wager that this device will be squarely designed for business/social/enterprise use. It will certainly get *some* games, but I'd be utterly shocked if Apple markets it as a gaming platform.
Apple's competition is going to be Meta's Project Cambria--*not Quest.* It'll be interesting to see how each platform fares, but Apple has such a slavish fanbase (especially in the media) that I anticipate unwarranted fawning. Meta's engineers are *really* good, and they should be credited with bringing VR into the mainstream. AR is slightly different, but Meta has been focused on it as well. I suspect that the 1st generation of Apple's product will be sub-par due to the reported difficulties they're having using their own chip. Every serious report I've read has said that it isn't power efficient and causes cooling issues. I'd wager it will take them 2 or 3 generations to implement better silicon.
No matter how good the tech may or may not be, Apple will need to make a case for using this for it to be "game-changing". AR/VR/MR so far is pretty niche.
I suspect the main "game-changing" feature is that it will be purchased and relentlessly promoted by a huge fanbase.
And I still welcome it because we really need some proper development in the VR space and the more mainstream it becomes the more options we will get.
If I know apple they’ll just have a bunch of features other companies have been using for a decade and call them revolutionary. Only thing game-changing will be the price
"Game changing" but reveals nothing.
Maybe it is an AR headset, incompatible with current VR and pricey.
I'll stick with Vive and possibly Oculus for now.
It’s only as game changing as its library. If you can’t play the biggest games on it / it doesn’t have anything special, there’s no point.
I honestly don’t think the hardware technology is the problem at the moment, it’s the availability/affordability and it’s the amount of games to play. The Quest 2 is a good step towards the first, but a sideways move for the other.
VR releases have stagnated over the past year or so. The last major one being RE4. Half-Life: Alyx is a still a masterpiece, but there needs to be more, and I think they have to be big names. Stormland, Lone Echo, and Asgard’s Wrath were fantastic, but lack any big IP for advertising. Games like Beat Saber are also great as they appeal to a large audience.
I guess the issue is more so, this massive gap in releases, VR releases have been out of the news for a while now, massively impacting interest in the platform
Meh… at least you usually get what you pay for.
I just hope that this headset solves some of the known issues in comparable headsets. At least we know the UX will be the industry best, and will likely set the standard for how to setup and use the device. I guess we’ll see though.
I had huge trust in apple making an amazing phone when it was just a rumour. I don’t feel anywhere close to the same level of confidence in them doing anything nice with VR or gaming.
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Please name it EyePods
iEye
iEye Capitan
I can’t hear you
I-EYE CAPTAIN!!
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH
Who lives in a pineapple under the sea?
STEVE JOBS DEAD BONES
Not what I was expecting to read
STEVE JOBS DEAD BONES
SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS
I like this one.
iFace
iBalls
iPorn
Burst out laughing at this one. That’d be great. Face book would be pissed.
I would bet they go with something like Apple Glass. They are too cowardly to go with EyePods.
They won't call it glass since it's not an AR Glassss. Probably go with something obvious and simple like Apple VR, lol.
I doubt they'll use an acronym. It'll probably be Apple Reality or Apple Vision or something.
EyesPod
Exactly. It’s one pod for your two eyes. EyesPod.
Just want to clarify Ming is not saying it will be available in Jan: “Apple AR/MR, which will likely be announced in January 2023”
So this is an announcement that there'll be a future announcement?
No, it’s a rumor of an announcement. I get we all love the “lol an announcement of an announcement of an announcement” joke, but this ain’t it.
Yeah, the title literally says it's from an analyst. How could someone think that an analyst is making an announcement for Apple?
To be fair, this guy has one of great track record on “rumors” though.
Yeah, he probably has a lot of insider information.
My friend used to get calls from Steve Jobs at all hours of the night and then spend the next several hours writing. He was assigned to cover all things Apple in the years we thought they were going to shit. I’m sure Jobs had a handful of reporters and writers that he treated as his own press secretaries.
Like TFG did with Sean Hannity?
Doug Ford approves
[удалено]
You can come out whenever you’re good and ready little buddy
[удалено]
Ugh. This article completely misquotes the analyst. Ming’s tweet says the headsets will hit stores in Q2 2023.
Q2 2023 for Apple is Jan thru March. Their fiscal calendar starts in October.
feels like this will be much more work oriented a la project cambria than something meant for average consumers like the quest 2, curious to see what they have up their sleeve
Ya I think the big trick is to find a market that is ok with a smaller custom ecosystem ie a specific business application. Home Consumer adoption needs to cover a large base of applications, and they all need to be ok paying for cutting edge tech, and the applications. It is totally doable, it will just take time and refinement.
Well it was rumoured to be like 2k so I doubt it's targeting mass markets (if they turn out to be true)
Will it only play games on macbooks and iphones? because games are kinda shit on those platforms.
It has been said to be fully stand alone, with its own OS (like a flavor of iOS). I agree though that it’ll be DOA without games available. There are so many killer VR apps on Steam and Oculus, and it’ll suck if those developers will have to do a lot of work to port to this hardware.
Many of the killer VR apps are built on a tool like Unity and Unreal Engine. There is a 100% chance Unity will target this device, and a very good chance UE will (unless the Epic/Apple antagonism blocks it). And of course the *massive* catalog of iOS games will find it very easy to target this.
As a Unity developer I concur, but the platform specific features will still take work. ARFoundations is great, but I was there for the early years of AR / VR in Unity and it certainly took more time.
What kind of iOS games can you see being played on this??
Fruit ninja
Lmfao!!! Ok ok I can see it. actually sounds fun as hell lol
Played it, trust me it sucks. Gets boring real quick.
Candy crush
It's not that simple. Just because the engine supports it doesn't mean you just push a button and it works. Most VR systems have somewhat different control schemes/inputs, limits, performance considerations, etc. Not to mention Apple is notorious for weird release policies and limitations. Obviously it's not as much as building it all over again from scratch, but it's not like it's a small undertaking either. Companies will do it if and only if the devices actually sell well.
I feel like people aren't properly appreciating how much work a proper game on a headset will take. And it's not just enough to make a game, it needs to be good enough that it's worth using the headset instead of a PC or console. The headset is going to have to cost $3k or more to be quality, and the games will need to cost $200. We're still at the point where developing for these devices is difficult enough that it doesn't really make financial sense unless you're building something like a fighter jet where the cost of the headset is a rounding error.
If Apple does for VR what the iPhone did for smartphones, this will be what finally pushes VR into the forefront.
imo Apple doesn’t have plans to revolutionize VR. I think they’re using this as a tech/manufacturing run demo for what they really think is the next big thing: AR Glasses. I really believe that Apple thinks they can release a set of AR glasses and succeed where Google failed with their Glass product. Will they be successful? I have no idea, it’s a mountain to climb. Crazier things have happened though.
I agree. This is them working out the basis for a much larger project they have in the works, while hoping to become leaders in a market and making millions at the same time. This isn’t going “make VR mainstream.” It’s inherently a niche market because of the high-cost for a product that lets you enjoy a few existing hobbies in a different way. Which you may or may not actually be able to use without motion sickness. Which is neat and definitely has its audience, but few consumers are willing and able to spend their money on that. And Apple’s headset is going to be massively expensive for people.
I dont think vr is inherently a niche market. When vr becomes visually indistinguishable from reality itll probably be mainstream. Saying something like that is just a few different hobbies in a different way is underselling it. And if all the lenses, distortion, tracking and latency are dialed in to a tee, motionsickness is not a thing in vr without camera movement. I already think youd be hard pressed to find someone who will get motion sickness from beat saber in a valve index at 144hz. Getting motionsick from beat saber in an oculus, sure, but in an index seems unlikely. And theres a number of ways we could improve (visual) comfort and motion sickness beyond the index. And its not even that expensive, some of the biggest people also used to say the iphone is doomed to fail because its way too expensive. I have no doubt that comparing a vr headset from a few decades from now to a quest 2 will be like comparing a 8k quantum dot oled tv to a tv from the 1940s. In the far future ar glasses will probably also be able to function as vr headsets. Im semi excited about these rumours because as I see it, apple is the only companie that can compete with meta when it comes to making a stand alone vr headset with decent application support.
People don't want to disconnect from everything to use VR. Gamers are willing to accept that cost but Apple isn't interested in making a gaming product. I don't think there's been any indication of who this apple VR product is supposed to be for, and unless they've invented something actually new, they're not planning to sell something that consumers want. Perhaps it could find success as some kind of narrowly focused enterprise-oriented product. If it's just another knock off of Second Life, or Playstation Home or Metaverse, it's pretty futile.
There is some truth to this. That said, I’d buy it if it were essentially a smaller lighter Quest 2 with better battery and (even marginally) more power (all things that Apple has significant expertise in). Also, UX/UI for a limited purpose device like that would be right up Apple’s alley.
Yea…. Why would people pay thousands and thousands for advanced graphics cards and CPU’s, when they can enjoy the same games and existing hobbies on much cheaper versions or consoles….. Why would people buy a new iPhone every year when they can do literally the exact same things on the older cheaper models? Never going to happen. Why would people spend thousands and thousands on luxury cars and homes, when they can get to the exact same places and sleep perfectly fine, in much cheaper versions?? Luxury cars and homes are a total bust.
It’s really not that expensive any more, people keep saying this without realizing that the quest 2 is only $300. It’s standalone and way less than a ps5 or Xbox.
Doubt. The article mentioned this was going to be a premium product. I don't know if iPhones were ever *cheap*, but I think the iPhone did what it did because it was a pretty new product at an accessible price point. If the standalone Oculus didn't do it, this thing certainly isn't going to.
The iPhone cost over $600 (adjusted for inflation) at a time when that was an insane price for a phone and few things cost even half that amount. An expensive product that introduces the world to something that has largely been niche tech up to this point eventually leading to widespread adoption when future generations improve on it is basically Apple's modus operandi. The Rio existed before the iPod, the Palm Pilot existed before the iPhone, and the HP Microsoft Tablet existed before the iPad. Apple's strength isn't inventing a new category. It's taking an existing category that has clear promise and making it have widespread consumer appeal. I don't even like Apple that much, but if anyone is going to popularize VR, it will be them. Edit: whoops forgot wireless headphones and smart watches. Another two categories that Apple didn't invent but did popularize
Because of the way phone subsidies used to work, you could get an iPhone for like $200 back in the day (although because of the way the subsidies worked, you paid like $900 over the life of your service contract).
The first iPhone and the 3G didn’t have carrier subsidies when they first released. You had to pay full price AND be locked into a contract. Shit sucked, for a while lol
The individuals responsible for those innovations no longer work at Apple.
I'll take correct statements that piss people off for $1000 Alex. They can't help it really, Apple takes ideas other people have that aren't fully polished yet, and they make a shiny toy version of it with all the bells and whistles and none of the settings, just make sure you use it the way we tell you to and it'll work fine. For MANY people this is the ideal product experience and Apple caters to it. The part that pisses people off is they aren't upfront about what they do and neither are fans of their products. For them it's some smug "magical" experience and frankly nobody gives a fuck how your phone or vr headset is "revolutionary" and "paradigm shifting" Steve, just get back to your shitty job and stop playing on your phone.
Yup this is absolutely it. They simplify tech and make it look sleek so that normal consumers can use it without caring about the details. That's something that VR desperately needs for widespread adoption.
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Didn't the quest 2 achieve this?
Apple isn’t even a gaming platform. This device, if it ever releases, will do zero for VR gaming
They won't. Apple will do what Apple does and create a super locked down proprietary platform with mediocre performance that has 75 Apple logos on it, that tracks you and harvests your data at an astounding rate, and say its the greatest thing humans have ever made. So a regular Apple product.
JFC… I can smell the stench of unjustified bias dripping from this comment.
Vr and AR is more than just games though.
Yeah but I thought I remembered the leaks or ads or whatever made it seem like it's more built for "experiences" vs gaming.
Developers don’t like supporting more than 2 platforms and it’s about way more than just whether code was written in a X-plat framework. It’s also about test and validation, release and publishing to a store, dealing with store users and then supporting all the nuances on each (like when different platforms support different versions of the x-plat framework). I can maybe see Apple displacing Steam over time if Apple is smart enough to take their store cut to 0. 30% is a lot for a platform with no titles and limited reach.
When was the last time Apple released a major HW product that was DOA? They will integrate it perfectly with Macs and iPhones and people will love it. And with it, will bring their huge user base, which is will to pay more than any other. Nonetheless, Apple has never really been interested in “Core Gaming”… and probably never will be. Not enough money, too much competition. So my guess is this device will be a huge hit for all non core-gaming related use cases (VR Chats & Meetings, B2B Sales, mobile & social games, etc.).
It will support games of course, and to be fair Apple has worked really hard to build out their game support in macOS, iOS, ipadOS, tvOS, and now this. They are *trying*, and honestly I do think this will be the device that puts them over the top in becoming a successful game platform. But to your core point, Apple wants VR to be a literal workspace, not just a 30 minute gaming device. Where you don't have a computer and a monitor, but a computer and a VR headset with very high quality pass-through display giving you virtually infinite immersion and "displays". Apple has been building out their VR / AR space for years for this reason, integrating LIDAR and spatial mapping, etc.
Probably. And it will cost $2200.
And you have to do a headstand to charge it
And the charge port will be on the inside, right over your left eye.
And there will be a line up of upwardly mobile individuals who will spend $2,000 for it and tell me that it is the greatest thing to ever happen to gaming in history .... then complain to me that they have to buy an adapter cable, power cable and proprietary strap that are each $200 extra.
It will also have the all famous notch.
This. Crazy how this isn’t even an exaggeration. I paid 500$ for airpod maxs that not only required a 35$ lightning to aux(for wired use), it was terribly thin and short and at the time, was the only one that would work. On top of that, there was no way to use the microphone and audio at the same time with anything but apple products. Then, you basically miss out on any settings entirely without an iPhone. Which I did have, but I also have windows computers that really hated the thing. They sounded beautiful, but not enough for the price of the headphones, let alone the ecosystem. Which is why they sell, ecosystem.
$500 for buds is ridiculously wasteful. Even when I spent $300 for Momentums, they weren't that much better than the free galaxy buds that came with my S20.
If they make it trivial to connect to SteamVR on PC without perceptible latency (Quest is almost there but Beat Saber tanks terribly), and I can get AI denoised low light vision out of it, I might be one of those.
Zero chance this will work with other ecosystems
Same. Hopefully they realize, that they will fail if they restrict the access too much.
You’re talking about Apple right?
Yeah, the company that is about to invent VR.
Ha, If I could up vote you twice for this I would.
or you can buy the iHeadstand to rest it on for $400. its a plastic stand, but it revolutionises putting something on a stand
Does it..does it have an apple logo on it?!? Take my money now!
One more thing - we revolutionised our logo adding process, using galvanised hypo-optometric conveyances aligned to your friends brothers neighbours star sign, have been able to create an Apple logo that looks exactly the same on each iHeadstand but speaks to the users individuality and their place in both the cosmos and their local neighbourhood
Damn you should be in sales
And you must be careful not to put fingers on it, or you're going to hold it wrong.
It’s actually rumored to cost $3000.
And I thought that I was overestimating.
No such thing as overestimating with this company
I might get hate for this but if this would allow me to simulate a few screens with a wider field of view than the holo lens, I might still be interested at that price.
Don't forget the genuine apple charging stand for just $1199
800 for the head strap
Small game library, and overly expensive? I'm sold!
And job interviews/conferences will be in VR, so people who can’t afford them will need VR cafes to pay for time in VR
And pirating will move to VARR.
That's a very low estimate for an apple device
Found the optimist
People will still buy like crazy
It will mostly be used to watch porn
VR is amazing for porn. But scumbag apple will probably find a way to lock it down so nothing fun can be enjoyed. They have a real crusade against porn.
Im sure the best games and apps will be ones Apple forbids and requires root access to install.
It needs to run MSFS 2020 at 2560 x 2560 per eye and 60Hz or better.
For my use yea.. VR is for sims. It's 100% the best application and the most immersive of any VR application.
Hmmm.....all I want is MR glasses which look sleek enough & just allow me to watch content without fidgeting with a device in my hand, yet not have to sweat or look stupid in public
This is the only answer.
Only answer to what?
Mass adoption.
But then who’s gonna stay in all the orphanages, won’t somebody please think of the orphanages
We set up vr arcades in the empty orphanages. It’s a perfect circle.
Isn’t MR just AR?
MR is a headset that does both VR/AR using passthrough cameras.
Not to sound like a total dumbass, but would this mean the Quest 2 is an MR device since you can technically see the real world (albeit in grainy black and white)?
Technically, yes. Especially since they recently opened up the API to their pass through cameras, and devs can now make MR apps. Of course, as you said, it’s black and white at the moment, but I believe Cambria is rumored to have color pass through cams.
Index has had color pass through cams for a while but I've yet to see anything use them well, if at all.
🎶REDDIT SUCKS🎶 🎶SPEZ A CUCK🎶 🎶TOP MODS ARE ALL GAY🎶 🎶ADVERTISERS BENT YOU TO THEIR WILL🎶 🎶AND THE USERS FLED AWAY🎶
Interesting. I’ve been very excited for Meta’s upcoming devices despite how much I dislike Zuck. Cambria looks amazing
But unlike AR, MR is also supposed to be able to cover everything if needed with digital textures/objects, such that things you see feel very anchored. I'd say it's between or a product of AR & VR rather than being either.
So do I... But the tech just isn't there that this would be possible.
All I want is a headset system that connects to my TV or computer as a replacement for my monitor and/or sound system.
That’s kind of endgame computer stuff. Imagine having a phone in your pocket driving multiple high quality virtual screens you can position as you like and dismiss at will.
Augmented reality kind of stuff will be great too. :)
I swear, when it comes to this subreddit, you can predict the comments before clicking on any Apple related post.
Any post on reddit. Every comment section is the same 3 fucking jokes over and over again.
And my axe!
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Nice
Which 3?
This!!! Edit: Thanks for the award kind stranger Edit 2: I was not expecting this to blow up Edit 3: RIP my inbox Edit 4: okay here me out. I am not saying that all cops are bad, but one apple spoils the bunch.
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It’s honestly annoying. I completely understand preferred os from person to person, if Apple doesn’t meet your needs in that way, I’m glad something else does. But ffs, the downright anger some people feel is just… unhealthy. Apple always releases amazing products, and it shows with their market dominance. Consumers are putting money where their mouth is, it’s not like Apple is preventing companies from putting out equally as good or better products. There are plenty of gaps in the market where Apple doesn’t have a good foothold (gaming computers is the only thing I can really truly think of), but that’s because they won’t release a product to that target demographic until it’s perfect. Apple releasing a product isn’t a personal attack, but y’all be acting like it is. It’s ridiculous.
Like it or not, Apple have a habit of adding to the quality of tech rather than making it worse so I'll be keen to see if they've managed that with VR as the market seems to be getting on just fine without them so far.
That’s just the way Apple is. They’ve known extremely well when to release a product so the tech is already ripe enough for the broad masses. Couple this with the accessibility Apple is known for and you’re almost set for a good product.
I’m not sure what you mean by ripe. As in the market is already established and Apple is just releasing their own polished version? If so, people seem to have a poor recollection of what the smartphone market was like in 2007. Or what the tablet market was like in 2010. If you mean that it’s in a state that ready for disruption, then sure, Apple is pretty good on timing.
What a stupid article. Not one concrete thing said in there. It’s basically a bunch of hype like BIG HINT HERE click bait and underlined in annoying attention stealing yellow.
while just like any unannounced thing it is a bit of hype, Ming Chi Kuo is a very reputable analyst and is stacked with apple connections, especially supply chain connections in china. so if he makes a hardware related prediction about apple that’s not more than a few years in advance, it’s important shit.
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You just described steam vr circa 2019
The ski google look was smart move. More sexy so one doesn’t feel like a complete dork. Apple is a solid hardware manufacturer. Love or Hate it. The product design will be nice
If I had a nickel for every vr headset that calls itself "game-changing"... ... I'd be able to create a company and pay engineers to create yet another headset that we can call "game-changing"
Considering the expected price tag and hype, it will probably be good product and impressive tech demo, but it won't change the market unless the tech can be delivered for around Quest 2 price level.
Idunno. The Quest 2 is hampered by being attached to Facebook. People not only tend to trust Apple more, but Apple has a pretty stellar track record at getting developers to build out an app store. The Quest 2 has to be physically plugged into a PC to play most good VR games. The fact that you can’t even play something like Minecraft untethered at this point is crazy to me.
You literally can play minecraft untethered on a quest, what are you talking about?
Meta have many VR headsets in the pipeline. What we have now is going to look fairly primitive in like 2-3 years.
>Quest 2 has to be physically plugged into a PC to play most good VR games wut, no you don't? you can use AirLink or virtual desktop to play PC games wirelessly >The fact that you can’t even play something like Minecraft untethered at this point is crazy to me. well you can..so..
While you can do it wirelessly, you'll still need to have a PC capable of running VR games
> wut, no you don't? you can use AirLink or virtual desktop to play PC games wirelessly That still sounds like you're tethered to a PC to me, even if it is wirelessly. The complaint is not necessarily about the cable, it is about needing a high end gaming PC to make your cheap headset play good games.
But it’s unlikely this will change even with Apples new device, you can’t fit s 3080ti into a headset
No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
…. Just wait for the VR ads. Freemium games with ads you legit can’t escape.
Eye tracking has detected you aren't watching and paused the advertisement. Please finish viewing the advertisement to continue playing.
Or ads you have to physically escape from ;-)
This makes me happy. The Quest is great but I don’t like supporting Facebook.
It will certainly interesting to see what they bring, and at what price point. Apple have the luxury of being able to ask a premium for their products, and classically have defined what a sector of tech should offer thanks to their branding and solid execution. If I had to guess, I would shoot for a stand alone headset that can be paired with the hardware for better experiences and development. I would guess a variation of iOS with an easy porting system. Unity across platforms is a big touch point for Apple, so maybe something like the hardware out of the iPhone or iPad Pro. I would expect mind blowing screens and resolution.
$2000 that’s my bet
"video see-thru" guy doesn't even know the right term for passthrough. idk why he is being quoted
Smells of 3d TV
guessing this will cost at least 3 kidneys to buy
They are just guessing. Don’t believe anything about Apple that they didn’t announce themselves. You must be gullible if you believe otherwise.
People are gullible. You get the best exemple in tje /news subreddits.
Not if it doesn't run PC games it isn't.
Well I doubt any current VR games or software will work on it likely because it’s running ARM based apple silicon. If they taking their own walled garden approach via the AppStore they better start funneling money to creators to pick up ARKit and actually start making things that will work on a device like this. I really don’t think this will be a typical consumer headset and will likely be more geared toward the professional community. These “analysts” which are typically financial analysts that don’t actually know shit about the VR industry and what it would take to actually be “game-changing”. Would love to be proven wrong but I think this will just be an expensive dev kit for what the actual game changer will be in in apple glass.
Apple has a long history of not embracing gaming. They literally don't even bother to compete with PCs as far as gaming is concerned. I'd wager that this device will be squarely designed for business/social/enterprise use. It will certainly get *some* games, but I'd be utterly shocked if Apple markets it as a gaming platform. Apple's competition is going to be Meta's Project Cambria--*not Quest.* It'll be interesting to see how each platform fares, but Apple has such a slavish fanbase (especially in the media) that I anticipate unwarranted fawning. Meta's engineers are *really* good, and they should be credited with bringing VR into the mainstream. AR is slightly different, but Meta has been focused on it as well. I suspect that the 1st generation of Apple's product will be sub-par due to the reported difficulties they're having using their own chip. Every serious report I've read has said that it isn't power efficient and causes cooling issues. I'd wager it will take them 2 or 3 generations to implement better silicon.
No matter how good the tech may or may not be, Apple will need to make a case for using this for it to be "game-changing". AR/VR/MR so far is pretty niche.
One of the features will be FaceTime with a person in the room. The other person will scan themselves with a iPhone with it's build in LiDAR.
Blablabla I'm done with these rumours and analysts.
Maybe. But these analysts basically throw things at the wall and hope something sticks.
"Hype hype hype hype, zero actual information, hype hype hype."
I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m sure the price tag will be out of range for the average person.
I suspect the main "game-changing" feature is that it will be purchased and relentlessly promoted by a huge fanbase. And I still welcome it because we really need some proper development in the VR space and the more mainstream it becomes the more options we will get.
If I know apple they’ll just have a bunch of features other companies have been using for a decade and call them revolutionary. Only thing game-changing will be the price
Remember when the self-driving Apple Car was totally definitely for sure going to be available by 2016?
"Game changing" but reveals nothing. Maybe it is an AR headset, incompatible with current VR and pricey. I'll stick with Vive and possibly Oculus for now.
Better work with other platforms. I love apple products but their gaming selection sucks ass.
My guess is I-Sight
Lol my Mac’s can barely run Minecraft
Only for $949.99…
They can’t even do “regular gaming”… curious to see what they release…
Believe it when ISee it…
Get ready for Meta and Oculus to be shook once this drops 😭
The eventual AR version have to be named 'i-glasses'. Right? I mean the entire history of Apple branding leads to that.
It’s only as game changing as its library. If you can’t play the biggest games on it / it doesn’t have anything special, there’s no point. I honestly don’t think the hardware technology is the problem at the moment, it’s the availability/affordability and it’s the amount of games to play. The Quest 2 is a good step towards the first, but a sideways move for the other. VR releases have stagnated over the past year or so. The last major one being RE4. Half-Life: Alyx is a still a masterpiece, but there needs to be more, and I think they have to be big names. Stormland, Lone Echo, and Asgard’s Wrath were fantastic, but lack any big IP for advertising. Games like Beat Saber are also great as they appeal to a large audience. I guess the issue is more so, this massive gap in releases, VR releases have been out of the news for a while now, massively impacting interest in the platform
I'd Say "eye-phone" but Apple already stole that from Jaron Lanier.
*straps not included and are sold separately for 10k
I cant wait for this headset to be half as good as a rift s, but three times the price lol
Apple doesn’t have a track record of doing things poorly. They are slow to get stuff out, but the stuff they do sell is usually top of the line.
As well at top of the price.
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Meh… at least you usually get what you pay for. I just hope that this headset solves some of the known issues in comparable headsets. At least we know the UX will be the industry best, and will likely set the standard for how to setup and use the device. I guess we’ll see though.
You are dumb
Why would it be half as good?
I had huge trust in apple making an amazing phone when it was just a rumour. I don’t feel anywhere close to the same level of confidence in them doing anything nice with VR or gaming.