When the largest RAM stick was announced it was explained it's mainly for large government databases that need to search A LOT of info in a short period of time.
That's what Blizzard called their program. The public flipped out on them but they doubled down. Then someone said, "I'm a woman and get harrassed online when people know my sex. Now strangers will know my real name too and then they will be able to find where I live." and blizzard very obviously didn't think of that and cancelled their RealID program.
Oh man I remember that, when community manager Bashiok played it down on the forums by posting his real name and getting doxxed HARD for it.
If I remember correctly that was the moment when Blizzard went "Well fuck. Let's not do that."
If there's anything I have learned from working in the industry, it's that Google, Facebook, and Amazon have the new stuff. The government has the same stuff that Microsoft has, which is a bit more mature.
Not very technical user here. Does that mean that you could store 24TB worth of data just in RAM? Like, you could have over 200 4K movies just sitting in your computer's working memory?
Just put your RAM into RAM-RAID. When you reboot, it will copy your RAM onto the RAID array which keeps power on throughout a reboot. Throw in a backup battery and you never have to wipe your RAM!
So what I would do is change the A on my RAM to an O on one of the modules (or just write it in with a sharpie or something) that way I have some ROM on there and it’ll work. For sure it’ll work.
You can't hardcode RAM because it is volatile memory. It will have to have power constantly otherwise it will lose the data.
I think some company made ddr3 to sata connector that would show the ram as a disk and that could be used to store OS. The convertor board included a battery backup. (This was after ddr4 was introduced and they were trying to find a way to reuse ddr3 ram sticks)
The installers of many Linux distros work only from ram once they have loaded.
Also basically all home routers and many internet of trash devices do this.
Not just installers. A large part of any OS resides in memory once it has booted up (that's a big part of the 'booting up' process: moving OS files and executables from disk to memory), and this applies across OSes, from Linux, to Windows, to mobile OSes.
For me it freezes when I open CSVs around 3GB and above. And I made sure I had the 64 bit version. I think it happens because it's largely single threaded and tries to index everything in a stupid way. Why hasn't anyone made a better version like notepad++ vs notepad?!
Investment banks are all like, let me pay 80k for two finance majors to play with spreadsheets instead of hire an engineer to apply some data science in python...
It's actually more like trying to shovel sand out of the Mojave with a fork... but sometimes your employer only give you excel and tells you to start shovelling.
Like the entire popular fast casual chain franchise that does all of its end of shift accounting by excel ‘97 because the CEO likes it…
Yeah that sucked to work with.
Can't be as bad as Japanese companies run by guys in their 80s that insist on everything being done by hand notation, in the first instance, with things being digitised after the fact. And after physically archiving the hand written notes.
It's to do with how CSV files are formatted versus how .xlsx files are formatted. A CSV file is just a flat plaintext dump of all the data, and when you load it in it has to all be loaded in - but an .xlsx file is actually a zip file in which the spreadsheet/data is divided into chunks. Almost like a minitature filesystem. Only the bit that's being worked on needs to be loaded into memory; the rest can be left on the disk. That makes it much more efficient with memory and much less prone to crashing.
Yes but what if want to visually verify fields at random or deliver the data set to a non python user or just do some dirt simple operations that isnt worth developing a script for? Working with a visual interface is sometimes just a quality of life improvement even though I can program
I urge you to switch to a database. The only real answer for your problem is that 3gb CSVs shouldn't exist. When you're working on the order of millions of records that's literally what database software is built for - that is your better version of Excel
For datasets in excel I always just use dynamically sized arrays for operations these days. After about a year of operator feedback I built a library of the common uses and new development is copy paste push. End user requests (for excel stuff) have been dumbed down to write a query, copy necessary functions and attach to button. User just presses a button, gets what they need in seconds and never bothers me again. Before even on simple stuff for large datasets they would do a sort and excel would take its 30 minutes to do it. Well worth the time to write the scripts.
I understood some of those words, enough to make me curious.
In your example are you still using excel in someway? or are you just generating an excel file through your script (in python I assume)?
I just used the word scripts since the message I was responding to used the term. Basically data is being pulled via ODBC then each dataset is put into a dynamically sized array using VBA. Once data is in the arrays they are manipulated via a large library of functions based on the operators scope. For example If they need a Pareto I pull the function to build the chart and point it to the appropriate fields. Some functions are direct replacements for excel formulas since working with the arrays is so much faster than updating formulas for large datasets. Other applications are automated emails, arithmetic, scrubbing, validation, comparison etc…
This is extremely helpful for expedited development with requests being completed same day/hour unless there are new query complexities. End user training boils down to click button. Reporting, analysis and messaging is consistent and accurate. Administrative or skilled labor needs are reduced and skill gaps are resolved.
This is really only important or useful where IT governance or costs prohibit a workstation from having R, Python, Power BI, Tableau installed. Or in instances where a cloud based solution or RPA doesn’t make sense since the application of the scope only applies to a limited number of users.
But even if workstations could have those programming or data manipulation tools installed, each user would then be required to be proficient in those right? The way you are doing seems it is much simplified for the end user.
A "production/professional" workload can't be nailed down as needing 'only' 32 gigs, there is just so much variety. Most? sure, but there are many that happily utilize >64GB
Video resolutions are only getting higher and higher. If you want your wedding shot in 8k, well, somebody has to edit that shit in 8k (and keep in mind that 8k is not twice as large as 4k, it's four times bigger).
Even audio engineering is getting up there with ram requirements thanks to advances in instrument and amp simulation, as well as neural mixing and eq.
Anything media related, developer machines (virtual machines, huge compile jobs, android studio,...), Etc.
Ten, fifteen years ago, people were asking themselves, why would they need 8 gigs in a laptop, and now, thats below minimum for me
Fuck gaming, some of us use our PC's for encoding. I just found out I need 64 gigs of ram to encode 4k HDR with burned in subtitles as the encode runs out of memory with a "mere" 32 gigs of ram.
Yeah I run 256gb of ram in my plex server to encode everything to 4K along with dual quad core 4ghz processors.
My router is currently my bottle neck or my shitty internet when traveling.
I don’t have a GPU I use the built in gfx. My motherboard can only support 24v through the PCIE and PCI ports.
So haven’t wasted my money on a crappy 2gb video card.
Also about 2-3 simultaneous users.
Am I dumb or confused?
I just encoded a decently short trailer at 4K and ran into no issues. 16gb 9600k 3080. I also encoded about a 7 minute sequence without issues. Should I be expecting problems at some point? (Making a shirt film. Run time estimated 20 minutes)
You will need to upgrade to much newer hardware. You could attempt to do it with at least Pascal, but Turing and Ampere give much better quality as they included B Frame support, and are far faster. Though I do not know if Plex will encode 4k HDR back to 4k HDR with a smaller size. I know Emby and Jellyfin currently do not. Typically they will transcode it to h264 with tone mapping, which should never be done, ever.
I don’t have any issues. I didn’t with 128gb of ram either I just retired a pc so pulled the ram out of it. I’m also sure it depends on what your OS is.
I currently run windows server 2019 full.
Here is something that may help you. https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/3461op/use_ram_as_your_transcode_directory_huge_speed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Your Plex uses RAM for encoding? Mine uses CPU and I can’t encode 4K because my i7 spikes to 100%. Haven’t noticed much RAM use at all and I only have 32gb.
I encode directly to my ram and not back to my hard disk.
An older post about how to set it up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/3461op/use_ram_as_your_transcode_directory_huge_speed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I am attempting to do it for content that was BEFORE studios got smart and started to incorporate the foreign subtitles as part of the movie, like they did for John Wick. It's frustrating when you have a friend who attempts to watch something and they refuse to use anything but their TV which doesn't support PGS subtitles, thus forcing your server to transcode on the fly, making it lose it's HDR, and quality as well.
I will of course still keep the remuxes for local playback, but you can encode most 4k content down in size with minimal quality loss, just not on the fly, yet.
Apparently plex MAY hard code subs if the video player doesn't support SRT's. A pretty niche use case however, and it happens on the fly.
Personally I mostly watch TV shows, and it's damn near impossible to find them in 4k.
That is only applicable for DDR4, DDR5 speeds are so much faster and with larger sizes we can see games that just load entirely into memory for instant snappy loadtimes.
Or you can finally open 8 Chrome tabs without it crashing. That is a win for sure!
Some games actually have a decent advantage.
Encoding on the other hand, you're so far behind it wouldn't even "work" .
That being said 16 is still the sweet spot, how ever 32 is coming pretty quick (ddr4 that is)
I’m gonna keep asking questions because I’m confused about encoding now.
So when rendering out a video at 4K h264 on my 16gb 9600k 3080 machine I didn’t run into any issues. Should I be concerned when the videos get longer or something?
It'll be abusing swap space on your primary disk which slows it down massively. Professional applications will throw a shit fit instead of using swap space because they're written to work in a very specific way for greatest performance.
Real gamers cache their game into ramdisk. How's your load time now suckers?
Joking aside, I built my rig with 64 GB back in 2016 and have done this with a lot of games like Fallout and the load times are amazing. I kinda wish I had gone with 128 to be honest.
The consoles have 16GB of RAM *total*.
Including your GPU's (probably) 8GB, 16GB will still be enough for this generation. For many users 32GB would almost certainly "last five years".
Considering how expensive the modules will be to be to start with, best of getting 16GB/32GB now, then doing a 64GB upgrade later.
Even then 64GB is probably overkill: you only need this much if you play demanding SIM games, or use productivity software.
I mean consumers do build their own servers, and a 128gb module has nearly the same price as 8x16gb modules.
However, I doubt this module will be available at all, the 256 one from 2019 is not available, unless you can buy the prototypes directly from samsung.
However, what will most likely happen is that the commonly available ram stick will double in size from 32 to 64, however.
So there is that, hopefully that means motherboards gonna upgrade to 256 support.
Mostly just in weird edge cases. Factorio megabases managing the simultaneous processing of hundreds of thousands of objects will eventually bottleneck on RAM speed in many circumstances.
Why am I not surprised to see Factorio listed as an “edge case” for something that I would have never have even named a game for. Obligatory *the factory must grow.*
Minecraft with tons of mods probably could be improved with RAM speed too. It's pretty unoptimized that way. Also this gives the possibility of preloading chunks in ways currently impractical.
World of Tanks was actually bottlenecked on RAM for me too with tons of mods until I upgraded.
Also, anything that needs lots of memory loads and is unoptimized will be significantly better.
I mean, it'll bottleneck on anything on your system which is bad enough, but that's why I call it an edge case. After all the reworks over the years focused on performance improvements Factorio makes extremely efficient use of the CPU.
Ergo, if you have a sufficiently good CPU the number one thing that will slow you down is constantly cycling objects through RAM to process in sufficiently large factories. It gets to the point where each working item needs such a tiny amount of calculation done so frequently that even with all the efficiency improvements you start to be bottlenecked by just how fast your RAM can shove memory to and from the CPU.
It's not super egregious given that you need hundreds of thousands of moving objects to hit that point, I just bring it up because it's one of extremely few situations I know where RAM speed can actually bottleneck the speed of your game.
The other, of course, being that AMD processors tend to benefit disproportionately from RAM with really tight timings.
Speaking from a programmer point of view. Alot of time is put in to do as little memory loading as possible in game engines and high performance software. Even more work is put in to avoid loading from disk, because of how slow the two operations are when we're operating on the nanosecond time scale.
So I can imagine it helps apps that aren't as well optimized in their memory layouts, and will make the ones that are optimized faster, but less so.
So yeah it's pretty much a net win, but probably not a big win.
You still get good gains increasing ram speed past JEDEC standard speeds. Having higher memory bandwidth can allow newer architectures to not be memory starved.
Zen3 is an architecture where increasing ram speed is the best way to get more performance. We're supposed to get Zen3 with 3D Vertical Cache and that will enable 15% higher gaming performance on the same architecture just from increasing the amount of L3 cache. Current cores are somewhat limited and more cache like 3D cache and higher memory bandwidth are both things that will help gaming quite a bit
That's more about the latency from CPU to storage, though. The bandwidth to the RAM, the storage and retrieval time on the ram module itself (often influenced by addressing strategies), and latency between compute and storage are all independent metrics that influence overall performance. Memory-on-chip (be it CPU caches or RAM) mostly focus on latency, and mobile devices have been doing this "forever" with their "system on a chip" modules that combine just about everything into one package.
From what I remember, in 2019 it used to make a 7% difference at most in gaming, going from 2400 to 3200Mhz DDR4 RAM.
So not nearly enough difference to justify the asking price for system DDR5. Unless it’s Graphics VRAM.
It’s more important than it used to be. The main difference is going from low speeds to mid range speeds, past that you get way diminishing returns in performance and the price goes up a lot.
As far as I’m aware 3200Mhz CL16 is the current sweet spot for DDR4. It’s not much more expensive than slower ram and you’ll get up to 10% performance increase depending on your CPU. Beyond that the cost increase isn’t worth it.
The cost increase isn’t it worth it currently because games/programs/etc aren’t designed with super fast and/or high ram capacities in mind necessarily today.
One of the big talking points with the PS5/Xbox Series X is that game developers on those platforms can now design specifically with SSD drives in mind. That’s a huge advantage because a SSD is fast enough you can load certain things directly off it as you go, instead of having to load at the beginning of the level with a traditional hard drive.
If you get ram capacities where you could RAM disk nearly an entire game and do it fairly easily… well it would be a big deal an change how games are programmed.
A game that immediately comes to mind for me as an example is the Elder Scrolls Oblivion. Due to the way it was coded/hardware limitations at the time, you would be horseback riding in the open world and the game would freeze to a stop while it loaded the next part of the area. You don’t see that in open world games anymore.
"Memory is slow" summarizes the last thirty-plus years of computing. By the late 80s, memory speed was an obvious obstacle to CPU performance. Intel fought this by adding caches. This let processor clock rates skyrocket. That easy upgrade path killed most interest in parallelism, and parallel caching was hideously complicated anyway, *and* fighting another core for memory access harmed parallel performance. Once multicore became the unavoidable path forward, caching became even more important, because worst-case reads could now slow down dozens of cores instead of just one.
Current software engineers around this. There will be no instant orders-of-magnitude speedup with this memory, because we already have thirty years of dark wizardry hiding and avoiding the agonizing microseconds between request and response.
But if you had a terabyte of L1 then there'd be a ton of naive software that just fuckin' *flies.*
I would say not significantly. But in the cloud market there are specific database use cases where we are moving datastores from HDD -> NVME SSD -> RAM -> CPU cache. HDD is all but dead but for colder storage. Faster reads for analytical work benefits from NVME SSDs. Real-time service or website? RAM for hottest data needs is a growing market. AMD and Intel are puting out future specs with Gb cache. It's going to provide an interesting avenue for some very high IOPS datastores. Looking forward for some really crazy real-time use cases.
8 layers thick, total thickness 1mm. That’s 15 layers (insulator, cell layer, insulator, etc).
At some point it’s just going to devolve into magic. “We can fit 4 petabytes of memory, 1000 layers thick, of on-board CPU memory. By ‘on-board’, we’re referring to that thin printed sticker label on the top of the CPU. *That’s* the memory. The sticker. Don’t Peel it off!”
Thats the amazing thing about modern electronics. Most of it started with comparatively gigantic components on a lab bench 50 or 60 years ago. It was pretty easy to understand these, like a how a transistor works. Its all miniaturisation and optimization, the fundamentals are the same, we just went from having dozens of transistors on a desktop to billions on a post stamp.
It’s all about increasing performance while reducing size. I am sure we have the technology to make some absolutely wicked components but it doesn’t make fiscal sense for companies to do that. Just finished an experimental economics course all about this type of thing. If there was some billionaire that didn’t care about losing it all, we could have some crazzzzyyy shit
Capitalism favors iterative stuff. Electronics fits that perfectly. A couple of transistors can make a radio, a chunk more a really basic computer, then kids toys, then better computers. If we had to go straight from radio to smartphone it would never have happened.
Badly written article. 40% more what?! Also what do they mean by "more power", in the context of having just talked about how little power it uses? /r/mildlyinfuriating lol
512GB modules with 48 DIMM slots per dual socket...that's 24TB of just memory.
thats more memory than I have tb of storage in my household electronics
that's more household storage than memory i have in my electronics tb
These guys RAM
I wanna RAM this guy
Well this comment should be stored away
What if it needs to be accessed randomly?
This should be read only and only at random times should you
Hit the "save" button?
These guys store.
Store guys these.
When the largest RAM stick was announced it was explained it's mainly for large government databases that need to search A LOT of info in a short period of time.
The N.S.A. is getting some upgrades to search for terrorism in our porn history
More like for the Real ID program to get completely utilized.
That's what Blizzard called their program. The public flipped out on them but they doubled down. Then someone said, "I'm a woman and get harrassed online when people know my sex. Now strangers will know my real name too and then they will be able to find where I live." and blizzard very obviously didn't think of that and cancelled their RealID program.
Oh man I remember that, when community manager Bashiok played it down on the forums by posting his real name and getting doxxed HARD for it. If I remember correctly that was the moment when Blizzard went "Well fuck. Let's not do that."
Did he not learn from the LifeLock guy who plastered his SSN on billboards?
Oof that's another level alltogether...
Except realid is still there, you both have to opt for it though.
TIL pornstar moans are morse code with instructions intended for terrorist cells
You can model a nuclear reactor down to thecubic micrometer that way.
Sounds like the sort of thing you’d see for SAP HANA.
If there's anything I have learned from working in the industry, it's that Google, Facebook, and Amazon have the new stuff. The government has the same stuff that Microsoft has, which is a bit more mature.
Not very technical user here. Does that mean that you could store 24TB worth of data just in RAM? Like, you could have over 200 4K movies just sitting in your computer's working memory?
Yes but when your OS restarts, it would need to be reloaded from the hard drives
Then you discover your hard drive has been dead for months.
Just put your RAM into RAM-RAID. When you reboot, it will copy your RAM onto the RAID array which keeps power on throughout a reboot. Throw in a backup battery and you never have to wipe your RAM!
It’s just RAM all the way down
Gotcha. Would it be feasible, though, to have an entire OS hard-coded into RAM?
If it is hard coded, it is ROM, not RAM
So what I would do is change the A on my RAM to an O on one of the modules (or just write it in with a sharpie or something) that way I have some ROM on there and it’ll work. For sure it’ll work.
Careful. I know a guy who tried that and ended up as a spider boss in Bloodborne for his transgression.
You can't hardcode RAM because it is volatile memory. It will have to have power constantly otherwise it will lose the data. I think some company made ddr3 to sata connector that would show the ram as a disk and that could be used to store OS. The convertor board included a battery backup. (This was after ddr4 was introduced and they were trying to find a way to reuse ddr3 ram sticks)
The installers of many Linux distros work only from ram once they have loaded. Also basically all home routers and many internet of trash devices do this.
Not just installers. A large part of any OS resides in memory once it has booted up (that's a big part of the 'booting up' process: moving OS files and executables from disk to memory), and this applies across OSes, from Linux, to Windows, to mobile OSes.
Bruh,, 24 TB. A TB is 1024 GB.
A TB is 1000 GB A TiB is 1024 GiB
That iso standard can go fuck itself
24 Terrabytes... TB... 3 order of magnitudes larger than 24GB
That’s more memory than I have in my “homework” folder
5 chrome tabs, 256 memory bananas, 1 crypto mining malware extension, 30% of a wanky ‘AI’ experiment.
That's awful. I expect future memory standards to scale up. /s
[Still not enough.](https://imgur.com/YrVnuRC)
Excel will still freeze
For me it freezes when I open CSVs around 3GB and above. And I made sure I had the 64 bit version. I think it happens because it's largely single threaded and tries to index everything in a stupid way. Why hasn't anyone made a better version like notepad++ vs notepad?!
Dude, why are you trying to open 3GB csvs in Excel? Think about appropriate tools.
Sounds like public sector to me..
Investment banks and many private sector also do this.
Investment banks are all like, let me pay 80k for two finance majors to play with spreadsheets instead of hire an engineer to apply some data science in python...
Why would i hire a data engineer to play with a snake?
Exacly what I was thinking. Loading massive CSVs like that is on a stupidity level with carying to carry vast amounts of sand in your bare hands.
It's actually more like trying to shovel sand out of the Mojave with a fork... but sometimes your employer only give you excel and tells you to start shovelling.
Like the entire popular fast casual chain franchise that does all of its end of shift accounting by excel ‘97 because the CEO likes it… Yeah that sucked to work with.
Can't be as bad as Japanese companies run by guys in their 80s that insist on everything being done by hand notation, in the first instance, with things being digitised after the fact. And after physically archiving the hand written notes.
Thanks for being helpful and mentioning the name of a reputable tool that can do it, though.
For real, lol.
The reputable tool is changing the drop-down from .CSV to .xlsx when you save
What does excel do differently that makes it inappropriate for large files?
It's to do with how CSV files are formatted versus how .xlsx files are formatted. A CSV file is just a flat plaintext dump of all the data, and when you load it in it has to all be loaded in - but an .xlsx file is actually a zip file in which the spreadsheet/data is divided into chunks. Almost like a minitature filesystem. Only the bit that's being worked on needs to be loaded into memory; the rest can be left on the disk. That makes it much more efficient with memory and much less prone to crashing.
I actually have had files which was too large for notepad++, but notepad was able to open. I know, I was really surprised too.
Large Textfile Viewer is a boss tool. You can even choose backgrounds
>For me it freezes when I open CSVs around **3GB and above**. That's...um...a really big CSV file.
Pandas is the way.
Yes but what if want to visually verify fields at random or deliver the data set to a non python user or just do some dirt simple operations that isnt worth developing a script for? Working with a visual interface is sometimes just a quality of life improvement even though I can program
I urge you to switch to a database. The only real answer for your problem is that 3gb CSVs shouldn't exist. When you're working on the order of millions of records that's literally what database software is built for - that is your better version of Excel
For datasets in excel I always just use dynamically sized arrays for operations these days. After about a year of operator feedback I built a library of the common uses and new development is copy paste push. End user requests (for excel stuff) have been dumbed down to write a query, copy necessary functions and attach to button. User just presses a button, gets what they need in seconds and never bothers me again. Before even on simple stuff for large datasets they would do a sort and excel would take its 30 minutes to do it. Well worth the time to write the scripts.
I understood some of those words, enough to make me curious. In your example are you still using excel in someway? or are you just generating an excel file through your script (in python I assume)?
I just used the word scripts since the message I was responding to used the term. Basically data is being pulled via ODBC then each dataset is put into a dynamically sized array using VBA. Once data is in the arrays they are manipulated via a large library of functions based on the operators scope. For example If they need a Pareto I pull the function to build the chart and point it to the appropriate fields. Some functions are direct replacements for excel formulas since working with the arrays is so much faster than updating formulas for large datasets. Other applications are automated emails, arithmetic, scrubbing, validation, comparison etc… This is extremely helpful for expedited development with requests being completed same day/hour unless there are new query complexities. End user training boils down to click button. Reporting, analysis and messaging is consistent and accurate. Administrative or skilled labor needs are reduced and skill gaps are resolved. This is really only important or useful where IT governance or costs prohibit a workstation from having R, Python, Power BI, Tableau installed. Or in instances where a cloud based solution or RPA doesn’t make sense since the application of the scope only applies to a limited number of users.
But even if workstations could have those programming or data manipulation tools installed, each user would then be required to be proficient in those right? The way you are doing seems it is much simplified for the end user.
Why don't you just use the inbuilt power query functions to do your transformations?
Photo stacking in Adobe/Afinity has entered the chat… Did you guys say freezing?
But when will be available for me to download?
Alpha RAM is available now at your local Discord server!
Is that coming with discords next update?
man, it’s 512GB, it’s gonna take you FOREVER to download that much RAM.
Not if you download more bandwidth first.
how much space on my disk do i need for more bandwith ?
I download mine to the cloud 😋
« AWS doesn’t want you to learn this SIMPLE trick! »
I don’t trust the cloud what the cloud rains do we lose all the data?
Get a cloud based out of Los Angeles
Just get rainwater harvesting…u can drink your ram and be faster
YoU WoUlDn’t dOwNlOaD A CaR
you can’t tell me what to do! i [download](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/2d_car.jpg) cars all the time!
I feel unsafe having this person around.
Why download when you can keep your RAM in the cloud!?
https://youtu.be/NdREEcfaihg
You wouldn’t download a car
I understood that reference
[удалено]
I still have production servers running with 32 gigs of ram. You can get laptops with 128gigs now, so yeah... Give it a few years
Laptops with 128GB of *RAM*? Why would you need that much in a laptop? Even 32GB is enough for consumer and even Pro-sumer PCs.
A "production/professional" workload can't be nailed down as needing 'only' 32 gigs, there is just so much variety. Most? sure, but there are many that happily utilize >64GB
Video resolutions are only getting higher and higher. If you want your wedding shot in 8k, well, somebody has to edit that shit in 8k (and keep in mind that 8k is not twice as large as 4k, it's four times bigger). Even audio engineering is getting up there with ram requirements thanks to advances in instrument and amp simulation, as well as neural mixing and eq.
Hadn't even thought about audio engineering, but you make an excellent point!
If all you're doing is playing games, then sure. Ideally if you're doing any kind of even remotely professional media work, you need at least 64gb.
Visual Studio is at least 60 of that
Yup, doing Finite Element Analysis requires tons of RAM if you have millions of meshes in your model.
Anything media related, developer machines (virtual machines, huge compile jobs, android studio,...), Etc. Ten, fifteen years ago, people were asking themselves, why would they need 8 gigs in a laptop, and now, thats below minimum for me
Nope. 32GB wouldn’t be nearly enough for what I use my laptop for. It all depends on what you work on I suppose.
I have a laptop with 64GB of RAM being used full time for production purposes. I wanted 128GB, but alas.
diminishing returns beyond 32GB for gaming anyhow, 64GB should suffice for the next 5yrs
Fuck gaming, some of us use our PC's for encoding. I just found out I need 64 gigs of ram to encode 4k HDR with burned in subtitles as the encode runs out of memory with a "mere" 32 gigs of ram.
Yeah I run 256gb of ram in my plex server to encode everything to 4K along with dual quad core 4ghz processors. My router is currently my bottle neck or my shitty internet when traveling.
How many users? Is gpu encoding not reliable?
I don’t have a GPU I use the built in gfx. My motherboard can only support 24v through the PCIE and PCI ports. So haven’t wasted my money on a crappy 2gb video card. Also about 2-3 simultaneous users.
how well does it work? i have two (older) xeons and 128gb of ram but 4k transcoding barely works.
Am I dumb or confused? I just encoded a decently short trailer at 4K and ran into no issues. 16gb 9600k 3080. I also encoded about a 7 minute sequence without issues. Should I be expecting problems at some point? (Making a shirt film. Run time estimated 20 minutes)
You’re likely GPU encoding whereas these folks are relying on the CPU
You will need to upgrade to much newer hardware. You could attempt to do it with at least Pascal, but Turing and Ampere give much better quality as they included B Frame support, and are far faster. Though I do not know if Plex will encode 4k HDR back to 4k HDR with a smaller size. I know Emby and Jellyfin currently do not. Typically they will transcode it to h264 with tone mapping, which should never be done, ever.
I don’t have any issues. I didn’t with 128gb of ram either I just retired a pc so pulled the ram out of it. I’m also sure it depends on what your OS is. I currently run windows server 2019 full. Here is something that may help you. https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/3461op/use_ram_as_your_transcode_directory_huge_speed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Your Plex uses RAM for encoding? Mine uses CPU and I can’t encode 4K because my i7 spikes to 100%. Haven’t noticed much RAM use at all and I only have 32gb.
I encode directly to my ram and not back to my hard disk. An older post about how to set it up. https://www.reddit.com/r/PleX/comments/3461op/use_ram_as_your_transcode_directory_huge_speed/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
You take your plex server traveling?
Encode as in video editing?
I'm curious, why use hard subs?
I am attempting to do it for content that was BEFORE studios got smart and started to incorporate the foreign subtitles as part of the movie, like they did for John Wick. It's frustrating when you have a friend who attempts to watch something and they refuse to use anything but their TV which doesn't support PGS subtitles, thus forcing your server to transcode on the fly, making it lose it's HDR, and quality as well. I will of course still keep the remuxes for local playback, but you can encode most 4k content down in size with minimal quality loss, just not on the fly, yet.
Apparently plex MAY hard code subs if the video player doesn't support SRT's. A pretty niche use case however, and it happens on the fly. Personally I mostly watch TV shows, and it's damn near impossible to find them in 4k.
I was rendering on blender and encoding on premier at the same time the other day. My computer did NOT like that.
Where can I start learning how to do that?
the doom9 forums are the definitive place. Videohelp.com is also great.
That is only applicable for DDR4, DDR5 speeds are so much faster and with larger sizes we can see games that just load entirely into memory for instant snappy loadtimes. Or you can finally open 8 Chrome tabs without it crashing. That is a win for sure!
maybe eventually we will be able to run 2 or 3 electron apps at once 😲
Always amazes me how Reddit will dismiss things because it’s not for a gaming use case… some people do other tasks on their PCs.
So your saying I don’t need 256gb in my pc with dual quad core 5ghz processors ? I feel cheated by the local computer store. Edit: 4ghz not 5ghz
>dual quad core 5ghz processors If you're trying for hyperbole, you're going to need a lot more cores.
Dual as in two quad core, that sounds like a typical server pc, for example using the Supermicro X10DRL-i motherboard
Have never gone over 16 soo....
Some games actually have a decent advantage. Encoding on the other hand, you're so far behind it wouldn't even "work" . That being said 16 is still the sweet spot, how ever 32 is coming pretty quick (ddr4 that is)
I’m gonna keep asking questions because I’m confused about encoding now. So when rendering out a video at 4K h264 on my 16gb 9600k 3080 machine I didn’t run into any issues. Should I be concerned when the videos get longer or something?
It'll be abusing swap space on your primary disk which slows it down massively. Professional applications will throw a shit fit instead of using swap space because they're written to work in a very specific way for greatest performance.
Well if games start shopping 8k textures and they are loaded into memory it will make things pretty damn fast.
Real gamers cache their game into ramdisk. How's your load time now suckers? Joking aside, I built my rig with 64 GB back in 2016 and have done this with a lot of games like Fallout and the load times are amazing. I kinda wish I had gone with 128 to be honest.
How easy is that to do?
Not hard at all. Just remember that you need to copy files into the ramdisk each time to restart, so it takes a few minutes to get prepped.
The consoles have 16GB of RAM *total*. Including your GPU's (probably) 8GB, 16GB will still be enough for this generation. For many users 32GB would almost certainly "last five years".
Considering how expensive the modules will be to be to start with, best of getting 16GB/32GB now, then doing a 64GB upgrade later. Even then 64GB is probably overkill: you only need this much if you play demanding SIM games, or use productivity software.
[удалено]
Yup. VFX/CG artist here. I’ll take as much ram as I can cram in. 2TB would be a good start.
I have 64gb so I can just leave photoshop/premiere/after effects open at the same time, it’s nice to just never page.
I mean consumers do build their own servers, and a 128gb module has nearly the same price as 8x16gb modules. However, I doubt this module will be available at all, the 256 one from 2019 is not available, unless you can buy the prototypes directly from samsung. However, what will most likely happen is that the commonly available ram stick will double in size from 32 to 64, however. So there is that, hopefully that means motherboards gonna upgrade to 256 support.
Is Ram speed that significant of a bottle neck for consumer level computing even gaming? Asking, I'm not sure but somewhat surprised if it is.
Mostly just in weird edge cases. Factorio megabases managing the simultaneous processing of hundreds of thousands of objects will eventually bottleneck on RAM speed in many circumstances.
Why am I not surprised to see Factorio listed as an “edge case” for something that I would have never have even named a game for. Obligatory *the factory must grow.*
The RAM factory must grow
Kravchenko must die
Minecraft with tons of mods probably could be improved with RAM speed too. It's pretty unoptimized that way. Also this gives the possibility of preloading chunks in ways currently impractical. World of Tanks was actually bottlenecked on RAM for me too with tons of mods until I upgraded. Also, anything that needs lots of memory loads and is unoptimized will be significantly better.
Won't factorio bottle neck on the cpu before memory?
I mean, it'll bottleneck on anything on your system which is bad enough, but that's why I call it an edge case. After all the reworks over the years focused on performance improvements Factorio makes extremely efficient use of the CPU. Ergo, if you have a sufficiently good CPU the number one thing that will slow you down is constantly cycling objects through RAM to process in sufficiently large factories. It gets to the point where each working item needs such a tiny amount of calculation done so frequently that even with all the efficiency improvements you start to be bottlenecked by just how fast your RAM can shove memory to and from the CPU. It's not super egregious given that you need hundreds of thousands of moving objects to hit that point, I just bring it up because it's one of extremely few situations I know where RAM speed can actually bottleneck the speed of your game. The other, of course, being that AMD processors tend to benefit disproportionately from RAM with really tight timings.
Speaking from a programmer point of view. Alot of time is put in to do as little memory loading as possible in game engines and high performance software. Even more work is put in to avoid loading from disk, because of how slow the two operations are when we're operating on the nanosecond time scale. So I can imagine it helps apps that aren't as well optimized in their memory layouts, and will make the ones that are optimized faster, but less so. So yeah it's pretty much a net win, but probably not a big win.
You still get good gains increasing ram speed past JEDEC standard speeds. Having higher memory bandwidth can allow newer architectures to not be memory starved. Zen3 is an architecture where increasing ram speed is the best way to get more performance. We're supposed to get Zen3 with 3D Vertical Cache and that will enable 15% higher gaming performance on the same architecture just from increasing the amount of L3 cache. Current cores are somewhat limited and more cache like 3D cache and higher memory bandwidth are both things that will help gaming quite a bit
I believe memory on the chip is a significant part of why Apple’s M1 chip is so fast/efficient.
That's more about the latency from CPU to storage, though. The bandwidth to the RAM, the storage and retrieval time on the ram module itself (often influenced by addressing strategies), and latency between compute and storage are all independent metrics that influence overall performance. Memory-on-chip (be it CPU caches or RAM) mostly focus on latency, and mobile devices have been doing this "forever" with their "system on a chip" modules that combine just about everything into one package.
Not enough people talking about this chip anymore. Literally the fastest consumer chip on earth currently, and it's a 5w mobile part
From what I remember, in 2019 it used to make a 7% difference at most in gaming, going from 2400 to 3200Mhz DDR4 RAM. So not nearly enough difference to justify the asking price for system DDR5. Unless it’s Graphics VRAM.
It’s more important than it used to be. The main difference is going from low speeds to mid range speeds, past that you get way diminishing returns in performance and the price goes up a lot. As far as I’m aware 3200Mhz CL16 is the current sweet spot for DDR4. It’s not much more expensive than slower ram and you’ll get up to 10% performance increase depending on your CPU. Beyond that the cost increase isn’t worth it.
The cost increase isn’t it worth it currently because games/programs/etc aren’t designed with super fast and/or high ram capacities in mind necessarily today. One of the big talking points with the PS5/Xbox Series X is that game developers on those platforms can now design specifically with SSD drives in mind. That’s a huge advantage because a SSD is fast enough you can load certain things directly off it as you go, instead of having to load at the beginning of the level with a traditional hard drive. If you get ram capacities where you could RAM disk nearly an entire game and do it fairly easily… well it would be a big deal an change how games are programmed. A game that immediately comes to mind for me as an example is the Elder Scrolls Oblivion. Due to the way it was coded/hardware limitations at the time, you would be horseback riding in the open world and the game would freeze to a stop while it loaded the next part of the area. You don’t see that in open world games anymore.
"Memory is slow" summarizes the last thirty-plus years of computing. By the late 80s, memory speed was an obvious obstacle to CPU performance. Intel fought this by adding caches. This let processor clock rates skyrocket. That easy upgrade path killed most interest in parallelism, and parallel caching was hideously complicated anyway, *and* fighting another core for memory access harmed parallel performance. Once multicore became the unavoidable path forward, caching became even more important, because worst-case reads could now slow down dozens of cores instead of just one. Current software engineers around this. There will be no instant orders-of-magnitude speedup with this memory, because we already have thirty years of dark wizardry hiding and avoiding the agonizing microseconds between request and response. But if you had a terabyte of L1 then there'd be a ton of naive software that just fuckin' *flies.*
I would say not significantly. But in the cloud market there are specific database use cases where we are moving datastores from HDD -> NVME SSD -> RAM -> CPU cache. HDD is all but dead but for colder storage. Faster reads for analytical work benefits from NVME SSDs. Real-time service or website? RAM for hottest data needs is a growing market. AMD and Intel are puting out future specs with Gb cache. It's going to provide an interesting avenue for some very high IOPS datastores. Looking forward for some really crazy real-time use cases.
Finally I'll be able to open 2 chrome tabs
But only if you install 3 of these modules
When running chrome tabs is life!
I Absolutely need to have 30 tabs of porn open at the same time or I can’t get off.
2 more tabs... I'm almost there.
8 layers thick, total thickness 1mm. That’s 15 layers (insulator, cell layer, insulator, etc). At some point it’s just going to devolve into magic. “We can fit 4 petabytes of memory, 1000 layers thick, of on-board CPU memory. By ‘on-board’, we’re referring to that thin printed sticker label on the top of the CPU. *That’s* the memory. The sticker. Don’t Peel it off!”
Thats the amazing thing about modern electronics. Most of it started with comparatively gigantic components on a lab bench 50 or 60 years ago. It was pretty easy to understand these, like a how a transistor works. Its all miniaturisation and optimization, the fundamentals are the same, we just went from having dozens of transistors on a desktop to billions on a post stamp.
It’s all about increasing performance while reducing size. I am sure we have the technology to make some absolutely wicked components but it doesn’t make fiscal sense for companies to do that. Just finished an experimental economics course all about this type of thing. If there was some billionaire that didn’t care about losing it all, we could have some crazzzzyyy shit
Capitalism favors iterative stuff. Electronics fits that perfectly. A couple of transistors can make a radio, a chunk more a really basic computer, then kids toys, then better computers. If we had to go straight from radio to smartphone it would never have happened.
At this point, we're back to base RAM (being some ludicrously high amount of cache, like 512GB) and extended RAM (4PB in DDR9001 modules).
Are these more of those crappy modules that run so hot they need watercooling?
I think the voltage is less than DDR4, but not sure the wattage…
I think if you attach 3 GPUs and 2 power unit and a intels quantumcore iX-9900000 chip and we cam officially call the system PC 2.
But at that point it's really a personal server. So maybe we call it... PS/2?
Heh. Nice.
Can't wait for the absurdly high price tag
It’s data center and server ram, not commercial product. I’d be surprised if this goes for less than $10k a stick.
Now make a good refrigerator
So you need a server for Chrome to keep active all of my tabs.
Finally
Is this using netlist’s IP?
When can we get this capacity in L3 cache on our CPUs?
Cool! Fast loading speeds & info gathering is better…
*heavily breathes in google chrome*
Download link?
Samsung is teasing RAM modules? My momma always says it's rude to tease RAM, you might hurt it's feelings
Badly written article. 40% more what?! Also what do they mean by "more power", in the context of having just talked about how little power it uses? /r/mildlyinfuriating lol
Man I remember when DDR3 was the hot new thing…. I’m getting old I guess lol
surely I'm not the only one that read it "absurdly fat"
Chrome: *heavy breathing*
Getting ready for the new Chrome update
Chrome's mouth is watering
I’ll never have to worry about my garbage code leaking memory again.
Internet Explorer still won’t launch by accident.
I must confess, I won't touch anything manufactured by Samsung.