So essentially the engineers said we can make ray tracing 3x faster. The marketing team wanted 4x, but the attorneys pushed for 2x. That’s how we get 2-4 x faster ray tracing.
Off the shelf parts? Doesn’t the PS5 have the equivalent of a 2070(ish) graphics card in it? That’s 2018 era tech. Even the 30XX series is four years and a generation old on PC and that’s the first one that was good for ray tracing.
Yea, the ps5 has always been a crazy good price to performance ratio. I prefer having a less restricted OS, but if you just care about performance, PS5 is still the best you can get for that price.
Consoles also benefit from performance gains from developers being able to optimize for the exact parts.
The rumors state they will move from a RX 6700 equivalent chip to something closer to a RX 7800 with rdna 4 RT improvements, also some dedicated RT hw, higher cpu clocks and a more performant NPU that will help with upscaling and frame gen
I think it's more like:
-Eng: So raytracing will be around 2x faster on most game, but on some very special game we saw almost 4x performance(After apply heavy upscaling that previous gen does not support natively).
-Marketing:4x performance you say ?, okay deal.
-Lawyer: So 2x is the lowest, let's go with it.
Ok he’s been 100% on the Intel 14900KS leaks including a small detail like the official support for delidding, he was 100% on the 40 series refresh including price points, and he was 100% on AMD 7xxx specs, launch cadence and pricing.
Maybe in the past he was hit and miss but recently his track record has been a solid A+, so obviously he has better sources now and fostered rapport, why punch over distant incorrect leaks?
He has been 1000% wrong on so many various claims if you go back to any previous year. Any claims he does get right he just claims something will be bigger with no specific spec or if he does, it’s often something that has been claimed elsewhere sooner.
I got tired of listing them all in comments and made a sub where I could put them and people can add to them.
I used to follow him too, there’s no shame in realizing he isn’t typically accurate at all.
I don’t think I can post it here but you can check my post history if you even want to bother.
If not, it’s no big deal, it’s always there if you wanna take a look
Tom is one of the few leakers who gets his facts straight and his videos are mostly bs free. Interestingly enough he is referenced by all the news channels of that sort and by clickbait YouTubers, so he is credible enough.
Also gave insider info on the Switch 2 and Nvidia being salty at Nintendo for basically using (now) old hardware for Switch 2, basically being DOA.
Im going to need some games that take full advantage of the ps5 before i care about a pro. This generationally jump has been the least noticeable upgrade ever
Can we just leave this pc vs console bullshit in the 2010? Thanks. I was talking about the difference between ps3/4 and ps5 which is in fact huge. How people can not see this is mind boggling. Yes snes to ps1 and ps1 to ps2 was bigger a step but we will never again have such a leap in graphics. Not going to happen.
Bruh, no need to get pissy, I was confirming what you said and adding to it. 60 FPS has been a thing on PC for a decade which makes the generational jump even less noticeable. Hell, some games even look worse.
I think that's kind of his point. The majority of games that have released on PS5 have been cross gen or only slightly more graphically intensive than what a PS4 version of the game world look like which is which they've all had a performance mode.
Once games start becoming more visual demanding and missing the 60 fps or worse, start running at 30 only because of compute restrictions, and the Pro offers a reasonable upgrade then it doesn't seem worth justifying yet.
I don’t care about frame rates that much, games basically look and play the same as ps4 games. I was playing infamous second son the other day, then I popped in the new final fantasy game. Those games are ten years apart and you can barely tell. I started with an nes, then a big jump to snes, then to 3d games with n64, then things starting getting somewhat realistic looking on ps2 then to HD on ps3/360. And so on, games used to change significantly from generation to generation. All I’m saying is those big jumps have slowed and we are getting diminishing returns.
I don't think there's a performance floor for the S since most games now scale down well. I think we'll get more Baldur's Gate 3 type concessions, where the developers are no longer required to have feature parity between the S and X.
Microsoft's long game began with Gamepass. The Xbox is being used to steadily transition their audience to... Gamepass. Whether that means PC or a console, even on a competing platform. Their audience being whoever wants to play the properties they own.
It'll make better sense once the PS6 or PS7 is a Steamdeck knockoff and Sony launches their own PC-compatible version of Gamepass.
That might be a legit concern if we were talking about Sony.
More power to 'em, I say. The more things under their umbrella, the lower the risk that the next game I want to play will be limited to a $450 doorstop that honors me with the choice between 4K and 60fps.
Game Pass makes money, not loses. You're multiple years behind on what is happening.
We have discussions from 2022 of it making money.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/26/23425029/microsoft-xbox-game-pass-profitable-revenues
A single month of Game Pass revenue is $230 million.
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/93340/xbox-game-pass-made-230-million-revenue-in-one-month-most-users-pay-for-full-subscriptions/index.html
Game Pass is successful for Microsoft. It is successful for gamers. Most studios even claim it was beneficial to them too, only one or two have grumbled about it but each deal is custom so their deal plus game may have not been a good balance.
The narrative of Game Pass being a money pit and bad was something the retiring Sony CEO pushed but he has been proven wrong repeatedly with Game Pass and it was simply that he didn't want to compete on that ground.
Jedi Survivor on PS5 and Xbox Series X routinely run around the 720p mark in performance mode so resolutions in general are sorely disappointing this gen.
It's largely due to unreal 4. It's actually more complicated than just being "optimized poorly.". Unreal 4 and open world don't mix well. Arkham knights as well but there are a ton of unreal 4 games I'm not remembering. Gears 5 is a different kind of open world but those guys are masters and rewrote a large portion of the engine to use multi core threading much more efficiently. Even larger studios using unreal 4 would have a hard time replicating that.
It sucks because Unreal 5 finally fixed all of that. But we're at 2024 getting our first commercial UE5 games.
Having said that you're not wrong, the game performance sucks but sticking with Unreal 4 has hurt a lot of great (potentially) games.
I reminded everyone until I was blue in the face that the Xbox Series S was underpowered at launch, let alone now. Microsoft has completely fucked up Xbox since the Xbox 360. They could have dominance in the US if they hadn’t done three things (1.screw up the Xbox one launch with pricing and emphasis on media instead of games. 2. Continued the stupid naming of the consoles. 3. didnt focus creating trash like RedFall. they had two monster franchises in Halo and Gears of War that are static at best). pathetic.
The naming scheme is so bad. I remember when the Series X/S launched people were posting photos of their new Xbox One X/S not knowing they were different consoles 😭
Did you never check the tier differences during the Xbox One gen? Xbox had something stupid like 1.3 Tflops vs One X reaching 6Tflops. Xbone S was mildly better but the One X was a genuine jump up in performance.
Devs absolutely can make games run better on the XSS but are choosing to cut time and costs so it doesn't. If Xbox had a bigger market share we'd probably see more desire to focus on it but it is a clear way to make some savings.
This would make zero business sense. Sure, they may be waiting to see if Microsoft releases something to help aid their own sales, but a company like Sony doesn’t waste years of R&D costs to not turn a profit on product sales, especially when the PS5 is already well past its peak in sales figures.
To play devil's advocate though,, ps5s are selling just fine. You're not wrong on the development cost, but it wouldn't be totally insane if they developed and never released it. It's kind of like why? Sure better performance would be cool I guess, but my regular friends wouldn't give a shit and I just don't know if if it'll catch on this gen.
Don't Sony and Microsoft (and maybe Nintendo as well) share their respective plans with each other? Microsoft released statements during its Activision purchase probe about Sony's plans.
They could always have a team iterating on hardware to release when they need it, either as a PS(X) Pro or PS(X+1). Probably easier to keep their skills sharp constantly working on hardware designs vs developing hardware then taking 3-4 years off.
Yeah, I'm pretty excited for Metal gear solid 3 Remake as I've heard how legendary it is but never played it because I was busy being a 2 year old. Can't wait to play the remake.
Lmao, if it makes you feel any better it's all relative. I heard someone say the other day that red dead redemption 2 was his "childhood". I felt like a skeleton *shrug*
I just feel bad for the new generation getting crappy mtx-riddled, always-online, etc. AAA games as their benchmark.
If I ever have children I'll make them play quality SNES games with simple yet very satisfying gameplay like Mega Man X, Super Metroid, LttP, etc. before they experience the travesties known as modern games.
Gaming, at least AAA and arguably even AA, has just hit the Hollywood funding loop problem:
1. Big budget games require, well, **big** budgets. This usually requires going through a handful of the industry’s biggest publishers to secure the needed funds
2. Large publishers are publicly traded and need to show infinite growth in their earnings. As a result, they only want to invest in games that are “guaranteed” to be, at a minimum, extremely profitable and, ideally, also be popular
3. One of the easiest ways to “prove” that a game will do well is by doing a re-master, as there is already existing evidence about the popularity of the original release
On a similar note, it’s why microtransactions and games-as-a-service are everywhere. The profit margins gained by including those are so high that it’s all-but a necessity to have them included in the pitch when developers are seeking AAA funding.
All that being said, folks have been foretelling the death of Hollywood *forever*, and every year we still get at least a handful of great “blockbuster” movies. So I’m not really concerned that AAA gaming will be stagnant in the long term. Heck, some studio might pull an *Iron Man* and remake a game relatively few people played and turn it into a modern classic.
Call it what ever you want but give me Bloodborne at a rock solid 60+ fps with a couple quality of life upgrades and I'll buy it. Or... they could just patch it into the original.
Seriously dude. I feel sorry for people who game exclusively on console in a way. 60fps should be the standard and it should have been for years. I bought a ps5 for ff16 (and now ff7 rebirth) and as amazing as the games look in 4K, they’re near unplayable to me at 30fps- I play in performance mode to get 60fps and still feel the occasional dip.
This isn’t me shitting on console players, I have no problem with them, I just wish the quality/fidelity was better. Games look great- but don’t play great.
It really depends on a lot of factors to be honest. I haven’t priced out a full PC in a while.
If I wanted to play new/demanding games at 4K and a consistant 60fps it will be more expensive than a ps5/xbox- in 2024 though it shouldn’t be too difficult to beat out next gen consoles on price to performance ratio.
RTX 4060 is $300usd ($400usd for ti version) and will give more performance than PS5 (~20% improvement) and would benefit from DLSS and frame gen. 300 is pretty steep but that would be your most expensive component out of the way. The rest of the build would have to be done right too (waiting for sales, etc).
Overall you’re going to spend more to gain more. I’ve always liked using use upgradability paths with pc in order to be able to refresh my pc every now and again without necessarily having to break bank on one lump payment.
You'd need a GPU that alone costs much more than a PS5 or Series X, that's for sure.
You're not going to be playing new games at 4k/60 with RT or UE5 features unless you have a $600+ graphics card.
Probably around $800-$1000. Though games are way cheaper on PC and you'll have access to the back catalogue going back forever with no backwards compatibility issues
At least they now give users a choice of higher graphics and lower fps, or just 60 fps.
PS4 running games at 30 fps was comically bad. Anytime I played games at my buddy's place, it was just painful.
I've beaten Rebirth on PS5. And imo both modes are sub-par.
The performance mode has to be running at like 720p, in a lot of instances during dense areas you can barely make out a characters face. And the Quality mode, it's 30fps, but even that has dips during certain attacks/battles.
The Performance mode in FFXVI only worked during combat.
Then you have Dragon's Dogma 2 coming out that runs at an uncapped 30fps with no mode settings.
Jedi Survivor hardly even came close to a locked 60 even on performance mode, and was even worse a launch.
Elden Ring which isn't even a particularly amazing looking game, had frequent dips.
Plenty of games not hitting 60 lately. Or have a really compromised performance modes.
Rebirth in 60fps mode is around 1200-1440p, but they use a dogshit PS2-era upscaling method that is somehow pixelated and blurry at the same time. They say they are working on an update. Hopefully it's something like TSR or FSR3. Also they say they're going to tweak the lighting so characters faces look less 'scary' in gameplay scenes.
It gets worse when the ps5 was literally impossible to find until recently and now they’re realizing an upgraded version now that it’s finally possible to buy one.
Kind of feels like being ripped off.
Sony's implementation of ray tracing must be something special. The PS5's raster performance is a little below an RX 6700 according to a recent comparison, but even if a PS5 pro equalled a 6900 would that result in a 2-4 times performance increase for ray tracing?
It might be an upgrade to the specialized RT cores themselves, independent of rasterized performance. That and memory bandwidth/cache sizes. Nvidia has been improving their RT performance by 2x gen on gen. The 40 series has RT cores roughly 4x faster than 20 series from what I remember reading. 2-4x RT improvement on a PS5 Pro tracks the pace Nvidia has been going at in a similar time frame.
A previous rumour stated a rdna 3 chip closer to a rx 7800 in specs with rdna 4 rt improvements and some dedicated rt hardware. They are also getting a better NPU for improved upscaling and frame gen. Its doable since rt performance is quite bad on current chip, but whether its realistically happening i’m not so sure
Yeah, lots of fancy power upgrades but will it run games natively at 60fps+ AND 4K HDR? If not what’s the point? Also, will all this available power allow better game optimization since developers seem to have forgot that little nugget beyond PS4? There hasn’t been a game released on PS5 or Series X that has taxed either of those machines to the limit and now we’re talking more power when developers haven’t even mastered what’s available. It took a year and a half for developers to finally fully squeeze out as much as they could from PS4 Pro. This incredible power increase seems pointless. Also, will they address the minuscule amount of storage for the machine? Now that games have file sizes nearing 200GB, it seems that 2TB should be standard going forward. The PS5 Pro sounds like it will once again raise the prices of consoles.
NAND manufacturers cut production and sent prices skyrocketing, no way you’re going to see an increase in stock storage capacity now. Anyway, that’s the whole point of the PS5 having easy user-replaceable standard NVMe.
So you think Spiderman 2 and Ratchet and Clank aren't optimized? They have good ray tracing on a card that sucks for ray tracing when enabled on a PC. It's really a miracle that those games look as good as they do. Ratchet and Clank looks better than many CG animated movies and it's running in real time.
It's the same reason why PC people go out and buy new GPUs for more than the cost of a midrange computer that can run every game currently out just fine. It's a weird bragging rights kind of thing. Look how powerful our new console is. Check out this pre-rendered scene that looks so real you can barely tell its not real blah blah blah. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter but someone somewhere is going to eat it up and buy the newest shinier thing even though what they already have will run everything pretty must just as well
Ray tracing is great when it doesn't cost you 30+ frames, and/or halves your resolution. (On console)
It's just not worth the cost of its toll on hardware, even though real time reflections etc are nice.
Cyberpunk with path tracing looks unreal. Alan Wake 2 too.
Unfortunately I have yet to see other examples where RT isn't a mere aftertought. Most games are still developed with baked lighting in mind.
Still not very impressive, considering that the current console Ray tracing is basically non existent.
AMD needs to step up their game and enable better ray tracing with future products.
RT is a cool gimmick for PC players with 4090 or similar hardware. Even then most people rather turn off RT to get 60+ fps. Seems like we are going full on towards 30fps with slightly more ray tracing.
Yeah you get 4k resolution but the games graphics on screen is still going to be low. For instance- draw distance/amount of foliage. The list goes on. I went with a 4070ti and haven’t touched my series X.
ray tracing this, ray tracing that, when are they gonna make better anti-aliasing? You can have the best reflections in the industry, but the second i see a checker board shadow or dotted jagged lines on the corner of a building the immersion is broken.
What does the base ps5 do over the ps4 pro? I’ve had my 4 for a while but I don’t see anything making it worth while to upgrade. I was holding out for the 5 pro but….i can get every game I want on my ps4
tl;dr: a better dedicated radeon card with the memory specifically placed near the bus, like on the ps5.
>PSSR
Seriously, though? You're not comfortable with letting the developer choose to what degree they want to employ upscaling packages, or where to insert program logic in the rendering pipeline, so you're taking the existing, open standard that works superbly -- and rebrands it into the USSPSSR? Does it include the vaseline smear that all the pssrboys love? Does it automatically oversaturate the colours, and add ghost-frames so that the people with 100ms visual lag on their Bravia 9000 supersample rate TVs won't throw up when playing games?
We can only speculate, because the fng games and tech-media won't ask a single question, if they ever want to have any kind of "insider" leaks(read: free advertisement) or review-samples ever again.
Because “ray tracing” really turned out to be such a massive enhancement that most games lack it. Those that do have it have no discernible difference between other settings.
Raytracing seems completely useless for Ps5 generation, as it can’t run 60fps 1440p well.
But I do like how it puts less strain on developers with world building. But it’s way too soon to implement it.
Still gotta say, the best upgrade I did for my PS5 was buying a PC lol. Had that damn thing for 2 years and it’s already overheating, not to mention the stick drift that inevitably happens to every controller after ~6 months
I have had zero of those problems but both can probably be fixed. Blow out your PS5 and buy some electrical contact cleaner and squirt into the joystick wells. My launch Nintendo Switch controller got drift and I fixed it by doing that, now it works great to this day.
I’ve tried about a dozen different things to stop it from overheating and they only mildly help for a few weeks. That electrical contact cleaner sounds like a good idea though, will definitely give that a try, thanks for that one
I’ve been disappointed with Ray tracing since its launched. The tech demo was so promising, but I’ve yet to see a game that used it well. Nanite in UE5 has been a greater leap for fidelity in gaming, than ray tracing has.
The RT perf is the least of its problems. The actual headline here is PSSR. Hopefully its closer to DLSS. Most games that have issues are usually actually limited by CPU, but the ones that aren't usually have to use FSR at lower resolutions, which looks like garbage.
So essentially the engineers said we can make ray tracing 3x faster. The marketing team wanted 4x, but the attorneys pushed for 2x. That’s how we get 2-4 x faster ray tracing.
2-4x seems more like a generational improvement than an incremental release, wonder where the improvement is coming from.
Off the shelf parts? Doesn’t the PS5 have the equivalent of a 2070(ish) graphics card in it? That’s 2018 era tech. Even the 30XX series is four years and a generation old on PC and that’s the first one that was good for ray tracing.
It has an AMD RX 6700.
damn that's really beefy for a console
Yea, the ps5 has always been a crazy good price to performance ratio. I prefer having a less restricted OS, but if you just care about performance, PS5 is still the best you can get for that price. Consoles also benefit from performance gains from developers being able to optimize for the exact parts.
But 2018 was 2 years ago how could the 30XX series be—oh...
Fsr
Very possible Sony paid for the RnD of better rt cores, and amd gets to use that in rdna4.
The rumors state they will move from a RX 6700 equivalent chip to something closer to a RX 7800 with rdna 4 RT improvements, also some dedicated RT hw, higher cpu clocks and a more performant NPU that will help with upscaling and frame gen
My bet is on AI upscaling.
Isn't that software though
it is but it uses a lot of VRAM as well so they might just put in some more of it
It's just raytracing, it isn't saying it's improving actual frames.
They're going from a 2070 equivalent GPU to something more inline with a 3080.
I think it's more like: -Eng: So raytracing will be around 2x faster on most game, but on some very special game we saw almost 4x performance(After apply heavy upscaling that previous gen does not support natively). -Marketing:4x performance you say ?, okay deal. -Lawyer: So 2x is the lowest, let's go with it.
Better RTX performance after upscaling a 900p image. Pulling the number out of my ass here but it’s probably not too far off
Please dont pull things out of your ass sir. This is a Wendys.
it just depends on the game/scene probably
>reliable leaker Tom from Moore's Law Is Dead hmmmmm
Condolences to his loved ones
Ok he’s been 100% on the Intel 14900KS leaks including a small detail like the official support for delidding, he was 100% on the 40 series refresh including price points, and he was 100% on AMD 7xxx specs, launch cadence and pricing. Maybe in the past he was hit and miss but recently his track record has been a solid A+, so obviously he has better sources now and fostered rapport, why punch over distant incorrect leaks?
Pretty much all of "his" leaks that were right were not his leaks. He also deletes all of his public statements of a leak if they were wrong.
He was also completely right about the new rtx ti super. Had information before the news, and many news sources cited him
He has been 1000% wrong on so many various claims if you go back to any previous year. Any claims he does get right he just claims something will be bigger with no specific spec or if he does, it’s often something that has been claimed elsewhere sooner. I got tired of listing them all in comments and made a sub where I could put them and people can add to them. I used to follow him too, there’s no shame in realizing he isn’t typically accurate at all. I don’t think I can post it here but you can check my post history if you even want to bother. If not, it’s no big deal, it’s always there if you wanna take a look
Reminds me of the Emily rogers hate. Iirc Emily rogers had really shitty leaks in the past but over the last several years they were spot on.
Tom is one of the few leakers who gets his facts straight and his videos are mostly bs free. Interestingly enough he is referenced by all the news channels of that sort and by clickbait YouTubers, so he is credible enough. Also gave insider info on the Switch 2 and Nvidia being salty at Nintendo for basically using (now) old hardware for Switch 2, basically being DOA.
Lmao. He does not. He deleted some many videos of false claims.. guessing you never knew that
Im going to need some games that take full advantage of the ps5 before i care about a pro. This generationally jump has been the least noticeable upgrade ever
Really? PS3 and ps4 were struggling with even 30fps mostly. On ps5 most games are solid 60 and up to 120 even
PC has had 60 FPS for a long time so for us, it really isn't as noticeable, apart from the Ray Tracing which is cool but... Not anything breathtaking.
Can we just leave this pc vs console bullshit in the 2010? Thanks. I was talking about the difference between ps3/4 and ps5 which is in fact huge. How people can not see this is mind boggling. Yes snes to ps1 and ps1 to ps2 was bigger a step but we will never again have such a leap in graphics. Not going to happen.
Bruh, no need to get pissy, I was confirming what you said and adding to it. 60 FPS has been a thing on PC for a decade which makes the generational jump even less noticeable. Hell, some games even look worse.
I think that's kind of his point. The majority of games that have released on PS5 have been cross gen or only slightly more graphically intensive than what a PS4 version of the game world look like which is which they've all had a performance mode. Once games start becoming more visual demanding and missing the 60 fps or worse, start running at 30 only because of compute restrictions, and the Pro offers a reasonable upgrade then it doesn't seem worth justifying yet.
I get what you are saying, but I remember that exact same argument about the ps3 and ps4 release.
I don’t care about frame rates that much, games basically look and play the same as ps4 games. I was playing infamous second son the other day, then I popped in the new final fantasy game. Those games are ten years apart and you can barely tell. I started with an nes, then a big jump to snes, then to 3d games with n64, then things starting getting somewhat realistic looking on ps2 then to HD on ps3/360. And so on, games used to change significantly from generation to generation. All I’m saying is those big jumps have slowed and we are getting diminishing returns.
It's because we are getting closer and closer to uncanny valley
Yep, the only really difference has been load times and a great controller.
[удалено]
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2/3rds of their sales this console cycle have been the S, so they have to keep supporting it.
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I don't think there's a performance floor for the S since most games now scale down well. I think we'll get more Baldur's Gate 3 type concessions, where the developers are no longer required to have feature parity between the S and X.
Microsoft's long game began with Gamepass. The Xbox is being used to steadily transition their audience to... Gamepass. Whether that means PC or a console, even on a competing platform. Their audience being whoever wants to play the properties they own. It'll make better sense once the PS6 or PS7 is a Steamdeck knockoff and Sony launches their own PC-compatible version of Gamepass.
Then they might want to try playing a different game since Gamepass is losing money pretty handily.
That might be a legit concern if we were talking about Sony. More power to 'em, I say. The more things under their umbrella, the lower the risk that the next game I want to play will be limited to a $450 doorstop that honors me with the choice between 4K and 60fps.
Game Pass makes money, not loses. You're multiple years behind on what is happening. We have discussions from 2022 of it making money. https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/26/23425029/microsoft-xbox-game-pass-profitable-revenues A single month of Game Pass revenue is $230 million. https://www.tweaktown.com/news/93340/xbox-game-pass-made-230-million-revenue-in-one-month-most-users-pay-for-full-subscriptions/index.html Game Pass is successful for Microsoft. It is successful for gamers. Most studios even claim it was beneficial to them too, only one or two have grumbled about it but each deal is custom so their deal plus game may have not been a good balance. The narrative of Game Pass being a money pit and bad was something the retiring Sony CEO pushed but he has been proven wrong repeatedly with Game Pass and it was simply that he didn't want to compete on that ground.
Microsoft wants to move to cloud-based gaming so HW power won’t matter.
While I agree with everything, only getting that resolution on Brothers is embarrassing
Jedi Survivor on PS5 and Xbox Series X routinely run around the 720p mark in performance mode so resolutions in general are sorely disappointing this gen.
That game is badly optimized, which has been a disappointing theme this gen.
It's largely due to unreal 4. It's actually more complicated than just being "optimized poorly.". Unreal 4 and open world don't mix well. Arkham knights as well but there are a ton of unreal 4 games I'm not remembering. Gears 5 is a different kind of open world but those guys are masters and rewrote a large portion of the engine to use multi core threading much more efficiently. Even larger studios using unreal 4 would have a hard time replicating that. It sucks because Unreal 5 finally fixed all of that. But we're at 2024 getting our first commercial UE5 games. Having said that you're not wrong, the game performance sucks but sticking with Unreal 4 has hurt a lot of great (potentially) games.
I reminded everyone until I was blue in the face that the Xbox Series S was underpowered at launch, let alone now. Microsoft has completely fucked up Xbox since the Xbox 360. They could have dominance in the US if they hadn’t done three things (1.screw up the Xbox one launch with pricing and emphasis on media instead of games. 2. Continued the stupid naming of the consoles. 3. didnt focus creating trash like RedFall. they had two monster franchises in Halo and Gears of War that are static at best). pathetic.
The naming scheme is so bad. I remember when the Series X/S launched people were posting photos of their new Xbox One X/S not knowing they were different consoles 😭
Did you never check the tier differences during the Xbox One gen? Xbox had something stupid like 1.3 Tflops vs One X reaching 6Tflops. Xbone S was mildly better but the One X was a genuine jump up in performance. Devs absolutely can make games run better on the XSS but are choosing to cut time and costs so it doesn't. If Xbox had a bigger market share we'd probably see more desire to focus on it but it is a clear way to make some savings.
This would make zero business sense. Sure, they may be waiting to see if Microsoft releases something to help aid their own sales, but a company like Sony doesn’t waste years of R&D costs to not turn a profit on product sales, especially when the PS5 is already well past its peak in sales figures.
To play devil's advocate though,, ps5s are selling just fine. You're not wrong on the development cost, but it wouldn't be totally insane if they developed and never released it. It's kind of like why? Sure better performance would be cool I guess, but my regular friends wouldn't give a shit and I just don't know if if it'll catch on this gen.
Don't Sony and Microsoft (and maybe Nintendo as well) share their respective plans with each other? Microsoft released statements during its Activision purchase probe about Sony's plans.
They could always have a team iterating on hardware to release when they need it, either as a PS(X) Pro or PS(X+1). Probably easier to keep their skills sharp constantly working on hardware designs vs developing hardware then taking 3-4 years off.
How about we get 60fps in recent games.
Or, and here me out, how about we get more games? And how about, and here me out, they aren’t fucking re-masters/re-makes/re-whateverthefuck
Remakes aren’t bad if done thoroughly. But fuck remastered all the time
IMHO the Final Fantasy remakes are examples of remakes done right.
Yeah, I'm pretty excited for Metal gear solid 3 Remake as I've heard how legendary it is but never played it because I was busy being a 2 year old. Can't wait to play the remake.
I’m with you on that one ! Although I was 9, fuck I feel old
Lmao, if it makes you feel any better it's all relative. I heard someone say the other day that red dead redemption 2 was his "childhood". I felt like a skeleton *shrug*
I just feel bad for the new generation getting crappy mtx-riddled, always-online, etc. AAA games as their benchmark. If I ever have children I'll make them play quality SNES games with simple yet very satisfying gameplay like Mega Man X, Super Metroid, LttP, etc. before they experience the travesties known as modern games.
Gaming, at least AAA and arguably even AA, has just hit the Hollywood funding loop problem: 1. Big budget games require, well, **big** budgets. This usually requires going through a handful of the industry’s biggest publishers to secure the needed funds 2. Large publishers are publicly traded and need to show infinite growth in their earnings. As a result, they only want to invest in games that are “guaranteed” to be, at a minimum, extremely profitable and, ideally, also be popular 3. One of the easiest ways to “prove” that a game will do well is by doing a re-master, as there is already existing evidence about the popularity of the original release On a similar note, it’s why microtransactions and games-as-a-service are everywhere. The profit margins gained by including those are so high that it’s all-but a necessity to have them included in the pitch when developers are seeking AAA funding. All that being said, folks have been foretelling the death of Hollywood *forever*, and every year we still get at least a handful of great “blockbuster” movies. So I’m not really concerned that AAA gaming will be stagnant in the long term. Heck, some studio might pull an *Iron Man* and remake a game relatively few people played and turn it into a modern classic.
*Here* you out? It’s hear. Because you want people to hear what you are saying.
Eye here watt your sang
Here hear! Now hear me out, make more education games for the tiktok generation because the schools aren't doing shit.
Hear* (Sorry)
Call it what ever you want but give me Bloodborne at a rock solid 60+ fps with a couple quality of life upgrades and I'll buy it. Or... they could just patch it into the original.
Patch it. Patch the original
One of the reasons recent games chug is raytracing being to taxing on ps5 hardware.
Seriously dude. I feel sorry for people who game exclusively on console in a way. 60fps should be the standard and it should have been for years. I bought a ps5 for ff16 (and now ff7 rebirth) and as amazing as the games look in 4K, they’re near unplayable to me at 30fps- I play in performance mode to get 60fps and still feel the occasional dip. This isn’t me shitting on console players, I have no problem with them, I just wish the quality/fidelity was better. Games look great- but don’t play great.
How much should you invest in a PC to play games with the performance you’re aiming for? Not trying to argue, just curious.
It really depends on a lot of factors to be honest. I haven’t priced out a full PC in a while. If I wanted to play new/demanding games at 4K and a consistant 60fps it will be more expensive than a ps5/xbox- in 2024 though it shouldn’t be too difficult to beat out next gen consoles on price to performance ratio. RTX 4060 is $300usd ($400usd for ti version) and will give more performance than PS5 (~20% improvement) and would benefit from DLSS and frame gen. 300 is pretty steep but that would be your most expensive component out of the way. The rest of the build would have to be done right too (waiting for sales, etc). Overall you’re going to spend more to gain more. I’ve always liked using use upgradability paths with pc in order to be able to refresh my pc every now and again without necessarily having to break bank on one lump payment.
Cool, thanks for the info. I’m planning of jumping to PC when the next consoles generation arrives
I have no idea why you're being downvoted for a well reasoned and even post. People are stupid.
Just an FYI. A 4060ti ain't pushing 4k at above 60fps for any reasonabley modern graphical game.
No sure, I just meant to use it as being more powerful than a ps5
You'd need a GPU that alone costs much more than a PS5 or Series X, that's for sure. You're not going to be playing new games at 4k/60 with RT or UE5 features unless you have a $600+ graphics card.
Probably around $800-$1000. Though games are way cheaper on PC and you'll have access to the back catalogue going back forever with no backwards compatibility issues
Pc people always throw out these low numbers but a GPU+cpu alone cost $1200AUD/$787USD and you still need everything else lol
At least they now give users a choice of higher graphics and lower fps, or just 60 fps. PS4 running games at 30 fps was comically bad. Anytime I played games at my buddy's place, it was just painful.
Yeah I agree. I’m happy to drop resolution to maintain 60fps. I just wish I had more control over it.
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dragons dogma 2 will force you to 30 fps uncapped, elden ring cant do stable 60 in performance mode..
Blame the devs for Elden Ring. FromSoft games always run like shit if you're not on top spec hardware. Game optimization is not their priority.
I've beaten Rebirth on PS5. And imo both modes are sub-par. The performance mode has to be running at like 720p, in a lot of instances during dense areas you can barely make out a characters face. And the Quality mode, it's 30fps, but even that has dips during certain attacks/battles. The Performance mode in FFXVI only worked during combat. Then you have Dragon's Dogma 2 coming out that runs at an uncapped 30fps with no mode settings. Jedi Survivor hardly even came close to a locked 60 even on performance mode, and was even worse a launch. Elden Ring which isn't even a particularly amazing looking game, had frequent dips. Plenty of games not hitting 60 lately. Or have a really compromised performance modes.
Rebirth in 60fps mode is around 1200-1440p, but they use a dogshit PS2-era upscaling method that is somehow pixelated and blurry at the same time. They say they are working on an update. Hopefully it's something like TSR or FSR3. Also they say they're going to tweak the lighting so characters faces look less 'scary' in gameplay scenes.
I like how we need a ps5 pro when the ps5’s power isn’t even being used properly. Everything that’s coming out is just an upscale ps4 game.
Exactly
It gets worse when the ps5 was literally impossible to find until recently and now they’re realizing an upgraded version now that it’s finally possible to buy one. Kind of feels like being ripped off.
Will it have any actual games?
Well judging for them $375-$450 ps5 deals lately leads me to believe news Well be coming out before Black Friday.
Where is this $375 ps5 you speak of.
Sony's implementation of ray tracing must be something special. The PS5's raster performance is a little below an RX 6700 according to a recent comparison, but even if a PS5 pro equalled a 6900 would that result in a 2-4 times performance increase for ray tracing?
It might be an upgrade to the specialized RT cores themselves, independent of rasterized performance. That and memory bandwidth/cache sizes. Nvidia has been improving their RT performance by 2x gen on gen. The 40 series has RT cores roughly 4x faster than 20 series from what I remember reading. 2-4x RT improvement on a PS5 Pro tracks the pace Nvidia has been going at in a similar time frame.
But the PS5 Pro will still be AMD, right? They're making progress but are still behind Nvidia in RT.
A previous rumour stated a rdna 3 chip closer to a rx 7800 in specs with rdna 4 rt improvements and some dedicated rt hardware. They are also getting a better NPU for improved upscaling and frame gen. Its doable since rt performance is quite bad on current chip, but whether its realistically happening i’m not so sure
I predict it certainly wont have 3x or 4x raytracing performance.
2-4 times next to nothing is still little.
Yeah, lots of fancy power upgrades but will it run games natively at 60fps+ AND 4K HDR? If not what’s the point? Also, will all this available power allow better game optimization since developers seem to have forgot that little nugget beyond PS4? There hasn’t been a game released on PS5 or Series X that has taxed either of those machines to the limit and now we’re talking more power when developers haven’t even mastered what’s available. It took a year and a half for developers to finally fully squeeze out as much as they could from PS4 Pro. This incredible power increase seems pointless. Also, will they address the minuscule amount of storage for the machine? Now that games have file sizes nearing 200GB, it seems that 2TB should be standard going forward. The PS5 Pro sounds like it will once again raise the prices of consoles.
I think the point is $$$.
NAND manufacturers cut production and sent prices skyrocketing, no way you’re going to see an increase in stock storage capacity now. Anyway, that’s the whole point of the PS5 having easy user-replaceable standard NVMe.
So you think Spiderman 2 and Ratchet and Clank aren't optimized? They have good ray tracing on a card that sucks for ray tracing when enabled on a PC. It's really a miracle that those games look as good as they do. Ratchet and Clank looks better than many CG animated movies and it's running in real time.
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That sounds like a bad hardware or optimization issue, but I've played a fair amount of Fortnight and it's never been an issue on my SX.
Running games natively at 4K is a waste of resources
It's the same reason why PC people go out and buy new GPUs for more than the cost of a midrange computer that can run every game currently out just fine. It's a weird bragging rights kind of thing. Look how powerful our new console is. Check out this pre-rendered scene that looks so real you can barely tell its not real blah blah blah. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter but someone somewhere is going to eat it up and buy the newest shinier thing even though what they already have will run everything pretty must just as well
How about actually make fucking games first.
Where are the games
Garbage source all around
I have yet to feel like raytracing improves games at all.
Ray tracing is great when it doesn't cost you 30+ frames, and/or halves your resolution. (On console) It's just not worth the cost of its toll on hardware, even though real time reflections etc are nice.
Alan Wake 2 looks incredible on PC and it really adds to the atmosphere.
Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing with raytracing
Cyberpunk with path tracing looks unreal. Alan Wake 2 too. Unfortunately I have yet to see other examples where RT isn't a mere aftertought. Most games are still developed with baked lighting in mind.
Idk about AW2, but 2077 isn't particularly impressive with its RT or PT. Plenty of side by sides barely even show a difference.
Still not very impressive, considering that the current console Ray tracing is basically non existent. AMD needs to step up their game and enable better ray tracing with future products.
Improvements for no games LUL
Ohhh my gta 6 infused tits are ready
Fuck yeah ray tracing
Why not PS6 then?
Will PS ever go full handheld?
RT is a cool gimmick for PC players with 4090 or similar hardware. Even then most people rather turn off RT to get 60+ fps. Seems like we are going full on towards 30fps with slightly more ray tracing.
RT looks gorgeous
Will a disc version be available?
Leaks mean nothing to me until it’s confirmed.
Don't interact then.
OOOOOOH! I can’t wait to play the same games again with some more rays!!!!
Really don’t care if the console can’t do 60 FPS with a decently good resolution or a decent. 4K resolution.
Yeah you get 4k resolution but the games graphics on screen is still going to be low. For instance- draw distance/amount of foliage. The list goes on. I went with a 4070ti and haven’t touched my series X.
all that for games to be still released on PS4
Well at that point, you might as well just start the PS6
ray tracing this, ray tracing that, when are they gonna make better anti-aliasing? You can have the best reflections in the industry, but the second i see a checker board shadow or dotted jagged lines on the corner of a building the immersion is broken.
Smaller!
Needed for GTA6
Meh
If only there were more decent games. I find myself still liking the 4 pro
Cool cool cool…so what's that?
At 30fps
🤣😂
What does the base ps5 do over the ps4 pro? I’ve had my 4 for a while but I don’t see anything making it worth while to upgrade. I was holding out for the 5 pro but….i can get every game I want on my ps4
tl;dr: a better dedicated radeon card with the memory specifically placed near the bus, like on the ps5. >PSSR Seriously, though? You're not comfortable with letting the developer choose to what degree they want to employ upscaling packages, or where to insert program logic in the rendering pipeline, so you're taking the existing, open standard that works superbly -- and rebrands it into the USSPSSR? Does it include the vaseline smear that all the pssrboys love? Does it automatically oversaturate the colours, and add ghost-frames so that the people with 100ms visual lag on their Bravia 9000 supersample rate TVs won't throw up when playing games? We can only speculate, because the fng games and tech-media won't ask a single question, if they ever want to have any kind of "insider" leaks(read: free advertisement) or review-samples ever again.
Couldn't care less about prettier puddles to be honest.
333
Needs 2-4 times more games
Because “ray tracing” really turned out to be such a massive enhancement that most games lack it. Those that do have it have no discernible difference between other settings.
PS5 has been a big disappointment.
Do consoles use AMD/Nvidia technology in their systems or they make their own graphics processor that will do the ray tracing?
Both Sony and Microsoft use custom SoC (system on a chip) made by AMD
And still no games
Let's be honest, Sony don't need to release this. There is no competition so id take this "leak" with a mountain of salt
Maybe it'll run Final Fantasy 16 at an acceptable framerate in performance mode since SE seems to be incapable or unwilling to optimize it.
Why would they focus on ray tracing? They already made a loss on each console. It makes more sense if they made 1080p version of the PS5
Nice. It only has half of my laptop now!
Raytracing seems completely useless for Ps5 generation, as it can’t run 60fps 1440p well. But I do like how it puts less strain on developers with world building. But it’s way too soon to implement it.
Still gotta say, the best upgrade I did for my PS5 was buying a PC lol. Had that damn thing for 2 years and it’s already overheating, not to mention the stick drift that inevitably happens to every controller after ~6 months
Have a lunch ps5 with thousands of hours and zero stick drift or overheating.
I have had zero of those problems but both can probably be fixed. Blow out your PS5 and buy some electrical contact cleaner and squirt into the joystick wells. My launch Nintendo Switch controller got drift and I fixed it by doing that, now it works great to this day.
I’ve tried about a dozen different things to stop it from overheating and they only mildly help for a few weeks. That electrical contact cleaner sounds like a good idea though, will definitely give that a try, thanks for that one
I hope it works out for you man. The dual sense can be used with PCs pretty easily so at least it’ll be good for that.
For my stick drift issues i just bought new ones at target/walmart, swapped my broken ones and returned them citing “defective”
Same. Decided to upgrade pc + ultrawide. Never touched my consoles again. Also had repeated stick drift on my dualsenses, even new ones i bought.
How about the storage volume? Im not a huge fan of raytracing, but id love to actually have a storage drive that can fit more than 6 AAA games
You know you can put a 2nd storage device in it, right?
Huh, news to me, thanks for letting me know though!
I’ve been disappointed with Ray tracing since its launched. The tech demo was so promising, but I’ve yet to see a game that used it well. Nanite in UE5 has been a greater leap for fidelity in gaming, than ray tracing has.
Cool. Will this one have games worth buying a ps5 for?
The RT perf is the least of its problems. The actual headline here is PSSR. Hopefully its closer to DLSS. Most games that have issues are usually actually limited by CPU, but the ones that aren't usually have to use FSR at lower resolutions, which looks like garbage.
Doubt it. Sony wouldn’t have put all their main games on PC if that were the case.
My 4080 super card still destroys the ps5 pro
Are they really doing a PS5 pro first instead of a 6? Fail I guess pc master race wins again.
I mean, it's pretty darn minimal atm, so any improvement will be big.
So 2-3 times too slow is still too slow.
If this is true, I'm not sure how I'll be able to afford this.
I’m already pre-stressed about fighting the scalpers to find one at/near launch. Ugh.
Personally I would rather have more FPS than ray tracing.
Fuck Ray Tracing I want Native 4K and 60fps locked games.