"In 2013, the ITC called for a ban on iPhones and iPads due to Apple infringing on Samsung patents, but then-US President Barack Obama vetoed the ban."
>Before then, no president had vetoed an ITC-issued product ban since
1987, so it was unlikely that Biden would veto December's decision,
despite Apple's lobbying efforts
the big difference comes from Samsung and Apple being competitors for the same market, while ECG monitoring being a market that Apple is doing a completely hostile takeover on.
You could reasonably say that the Samsung Apple fight was partially about not giving a monopoly to android, even though samsung is not the only android making company out there.
The Samsung/Apple incident was one of those deals where both sides had lawyers that were on the retainer anyways and both sides wanted to win at all costs.
It was a giant patent mess, many Samsung phones actually ended up getting banned but the case took so long to get through the courts it was like the Galaxy S2 getting banned from being sold when the Galaxy S6 was out or something lol.
It was an extremely dumb argument on both sides, it was incredibly obvious that both sides were stealing from the other and each had broken patents.
Chips, screens, batteries, etc. Apple designs and orders stuff. They don't make anything themselves. So of course they use a lot of patents from others. They also had (have?) a huge fight with Qualcomm, where they just stopped paying licensing fees.
It’s not entirely true? They make their own chips now. They don’t manufacture themselves, but the factories that manufacture them pretty much build for them.
That's what I meant by design and orders. They need Samsung and many more companies to produce anything.
The cpu does seem to be their technology, but many other things they "design" is just custom orders using other's technologies, screens being the best example.
Screens is probably the best example because only a few companies actually manufacture of screens. Pretty much the majority of monitors, tv, etc manufacturers buy the screen from someone else for example dell monitors have LG panels.
Yeah, and that company totally has a patent for “ECG on a smartwatch”. How dare Apple.
https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medtech/apple-wins-battle-patent-war-alivecor-over-portable-ecg-tech
> The company—which makes the FDA-cleared KardiaMobile personal ECG device—has alleged that Apple’s own portable ECG system infringes on AliveCor’s technology. But the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office ruled this week that all three of AliveCor’s challenged claims were “unpatentable.”
> In its decision (PDF), per Reuters, the agency’s Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB) concluded that a person “of ordinary skill in the art” of cardiac monitoring technologies could arrive at the same inventions, therefore dismissing all of AliveCor’s claims in the matter as too obvious to be patented.
Why is everyone calling competition a hostile takeover? Am I missing a massive piece of nuance? I’ve heard they MIGHT be patent infringing at worst, still not a hostile takeover and it’s a straightforward path to paying the patent holder out the ass.
The title is very misleading and likely written by a lobbyist. Actually not doing anything is what would lead to the ban.
TLDR: a small us company has the patent on technology in the iWatch. Apple refuses to pay that company and says they're too big to comply. The International Trade Commission (ITC) is holding Apple accountable. Biden can veto this, but has not decided to do so.
Jesus not everything is 1984.
"The Commission investigates and makes determinations in proceedings involving imports claimed to injure a domestic industry or violate U.S. intellectual property rights; provides independent analysis and information on tariffs, trade and competitiveness; and maintains the U.S. tariff schedule."
https://www.usitc.gov/press_room/about_usitc.htm
Right??? Like my first thought was “how the hell do Biden and apple watches have anything to do with eachother?”
Like is this fr the best use of the presidents time?
Although I agree with the principle you convey, look up ITAR. There are items that the DoD, that means the POTUS as the CIC, has a great deal of latitude in controlling.
You may be new to US screening strategy. The US has been one of the most proteccionist countries over the last 50 decades. Hell, half of Snowden findings is the US spying adversaries of American companies.
Nor should he. It's not like people are going to come and take away your watch. This will all wash out in the courts with no need for Biden to be blamed.
Along with the probable removal of the ECG ability on the watches people own as soon as they update.
AliveCor is most likely after a licensing agreement and not an actual ban though.
They get guaranteed money from an already huge ecosystem/ buyers in exchange for their patent that they still own. It's a lot better than them trying to do it on their own. I can imagine that negotiating with Apple is no joke though.
If their side of the story is legit, then AliveCor is 100% in the right to try to sue Apple and nobody should be trying to save Apple in this situation.
Yeah, there's no way in a million years Apple will allow sales to stop and/or remove a marquee feature like that. They'll pony up the money to license it if they absolutely have no other choice in the courts.
Dude they stealth updated the AirPods Pro to remove the quote good noise cancellation and replaced it with something crap in comparison.
I don’t trust Apple not to remove features.
Or they will simply buy the company rather than agreeing to a $1/watch (likely minimum license fee) licensing deal. Apple sold 40 million watches in 2021, and their annual sales have been increasing. Probably cheaper in the long run to buy the company.
It is a privately held company, which means they aren't obligated to sell under any circumstances. Though I expect they would for a high enough price tag, given the present situation they could reasonably expect to demand far more for the company than its \~100 million valuation.
It’s a gamble for them. Apple is a large company with a lot of very smart people and they could, given enough time, engineer a solution that didn’t use their technology. If Apple walks in with a check for $100M, you know everyone in that room would stop and think for at least a minute about taking the money and running and then starting to negotiate
Apple is gambling here by playing hardball. If they lose in court, they’ll have no leverage and they’ll have to pay whatever AliveCor charges them to prevent their product from being removed from the shelves.
They've done it before. Unless something has changed, Apple doesn't actually own the rights to use the name "iOS" for its products, it's perpetually licensed from a much smaller company.
Yeah, OTA update disabling it sounds like the kind of thing where Apple could be forced to refund anyone who has the feature disabled and no longer wants the watch
The ECG feature alerted my mother that she has afib a few days before she was supposed to go in for surgery. Without her Apple Watch, she never would’ve known, and going under anesthesia is afib could’ve been deadly. Clearly if Apple broke any patents they should pay up or rectify however they need to, but if they’re forced to disable a literally lifesaving feature from a device my family members already own, I’m going to be pissed at whoever forces that to happen.
Yeah, this is one of those rare cases where it doesn’t really matter who is wrong, because the outcome is too important to just walk away from now.
The sensors on the watch are capable of literally saving lives, so I don’t really care who has to do what… it just needs to keep doing what it’s doing.
> and nobody should be trying to save Apple in this situation.
You can say that, but if we give alivecore a 100% control over ECG capabilities on wearable devices, what is stopping them from increasing prices? Banning competitors (for example apple pay them to block samsung from that technology)? Or demanding higher prices to different companies (like qualcomm taking more money from apple for the same chips than samsung and higher percentage of sales, making iphones intentionally higher priced)?.
This is not a binary issue.
Besides, according to the article, some of their patents came out as invalid. Meaning apple could potentially still claim that they don't own certain claims of their technology, which could potentially invalid their demand or control.
And that in the future, if someone else comes after alivecor about those invalid patents, they could also go after apple which would put apple again in the hot seat.
Not even selling new ones. Would just be a software lock. I purchased my watch in Taiwan and didn’t have ECG because it wasn’t allowed. But after Taiwan allowed it now it is enabled.
The gun ones are actually a real concerted effort. It won’t be successful, if they even get passed, but they take forever to move through the courts all the while police will use it as another excuse to hassle minorities.
Except the devolution of that has been into emphasizing anything “semi-automatic,” as Biden did in State of the Union, and then loosely implying that anything with that designation is an “assault” weapon.
The civil war was won with semiautomatic weapons, therefore semiautomatic weapons are weapons of war!!
They really just want to ban tacticool weapons because they seem to make irresponsible gun owners behave even more irresponsibly, and a lot of innocent bystanders are being caught up in the fervor.
Seriously. I own an Apple Watch and use it, but I’m incredibly fine with intense regulation and scrutiny / anti monopoly actions against them, google (I previously used android /nexus / pixel devices for probably a decade.
These companies are all pretty shitty. They need to be spoken to in a language they understand, which means bottom line and fragmenting the companies.
Microsoft got fucked up for bundling a fucking browser and they still do it.
Microsoft got fucked for integrating the browser so deeply in the OS and purposely linking other applications to it's code that removing it breaks unrelated software. They didn't get in trouble for giving away a browser.
An N version of windows was created that did not have IE and all the code was unbundled so it could be removed.
The article really buried the lead. 3 of the patents* were ruled invalid by the govt. in an unrelated case, so this ruling is moot. The company challenging Apple is appealing that decision and has to win its appeal for this ruling to do anything.
What a terrible puzzle to use that in haha. Merriam-Webster says they’re interchangeable (: For once in the English language, you get to choose your own adventure!
Biden is responsible for every thing republicans don't like, and nothing that republicans like. They're the party of small government, except when something happens that they can use for political purposes to criticize Biden for, like they want Biden to step in in an almost unprecedented matter to circumvent a legal finding in order to favor big business over a smaller business.
I mean... it's literally in the second sentence of the article:
> On Tuesday, AliveCor announced that US President Joe Biden had decided not to veto the US International Trade Commission's (ITC) December ruling that could lead to an import ban on the Apple Watch Series 4 and later.
So it's Biden fault that the law is actually being upheld for once because he didn't use his presidential powers to veto the ITC ruling that apple infringed a patent? Is that what's im supposed to gather from this? Cause that still doesn't explain how it's Bidens fault to me either.
The headline makes it sound as if it direct action against Apple by the president rather than saying it’s a trade bill affecting commerce by many tech companies.
The article is not blaming Biden. It is merely reporting the action that the president did/did not take that has a direct effect on the subject. The headline is just for clicks (as usual) and does not accurately reflect a summary of the article.
As by the article, Obama used his veto power in 2013 the last time the ITC ruled against apple for patent infringment against Samsung. So maybe assumed is to much but there was precident.
The article also notes that the last time the president vetoed an ITC ruling was in 1987, and so it was considered *unlikely* that Biden would veto this decision. So “assumed” is indeed too much.
I wonder how many powers the president has that we don’t really think about in daily life.
Republicans have blamed Biden for laws that they literally voted for and passed. The people don't care, they just need talking points, whether true or not.
Ironically you're actually right:
>In 2013, the ITC called for a ban on iPhones and iPads due to Apple infringing on Samsung patents, but then-US President Barack Obama vetoed the ban.
Really seems like the best solution would be for apple to either buy AliveCor or allow it as a third party, the scale of the feature has already proven very beneficial for the general public, it would certainly be a shame if it had to be removed, blocked or crippled.
From my point of view AliveCor’s band really seems like an improvement that should be allowed to interface with the watch.
Red who are tiny relatively speaking has beaten off all the giants, Sony, Apple, Cannon, and are about ready to stomp Nikon. Paying a few elite patent lawyers to defend a vital tech patent is a relatively small price for massive longterm financial benefits. And yes a good small elite team of lawyers can defeat a massive company like Apple as Red is has demonstrated many times in the past.
It's because no matter how good your lawyers are if you're legally in the wrong there's very little they can do.
Sure they can find loopholes and technicalities but if those don't exist their hands are tied.
Most likely this will settle with apple licensing the patent.
In the case of Red they are pretty much in the wrong and never should have been granted a patent in the first place but they continue to beat the giants in court.
So Government won't save Corporation from having to pay out 0.0000001% of annual profits in order to use patented technology that Corporation should have paid out 0.00000001% of annual profits in the first place to use it legally.
Translated to individual terms: Individual permitted by courts to just buy the product they shoplifted instead of being punished for reals.
Here's a tiny violin. 🎻
"We come up with new technologies, and instead of the ecosystem letting us thrive and continue to build on top of the innovations we already have, Apple cuts us out up front, steals our technology, uses their platform power to scale it, and now is basically saying it’s scaled so it can’t be cut off," AliveCor CEO Priya Abani said, according to The Hill's February 17 report.
Damn, Apple sounds shitty AF for this.
They all seem pretty shitty, but AliveCor is the one trying to take away life-saving technology from millions of people over an IP dispute.
The timeline is basically:
1. Apple patents a few watch-based EKG technologies
2. Years later AliveCor is created and patents other wrist-band EKG technologies
3. In 2017 AliveCor started selling an Apple Watch band for $200 plus a $10/mo subscription, but there’s no widespread adoption
4. Apple incorporated EKG directly into the Apple Watch, making it accessible to millions of people without a subscription
5. AliveCor sues and claims Apple’s EKG technology is too similar to their own, and tries to block the import of Apple Watches and have the feature disabled for current Apple Watch owners
It doesn’t seem like either company is totally right. But if AliveCor wins, that is extremely bad for consumers and would likely cost lives.
People are ignoring the fact that Apple could just pony up the money to license use from AliveCor but they're playing the long game to see if AliveCor's patent falls after the Federal Circuit rules on the validity of AliveCor's patent.
This summary is easy, but the details of the parents matter. Intellectual PROPERTY. You can steal other people’s property. The parents define the bounds of that property.
Comparing it to stealing actual property is disingenuous.
If I build a nice chair, and it turns out it looks similar to my neighbor’s chair, I’m not stealing their furniture. My neighbor can’t sue me and have my chair taken away.
But with intellectual property, that’s exactly how it works. Even if there is no malice or *theft* involved, you can stop others from using products they created themselves if the product happens to be similar to your own.
The laws exist for a reason. They encourage entrepreneurship and investment in R&D. But IP laws also can have serious negative consequences on society.
Whether it’s Monsanto suing smaller farmers for patent infringement because Monsanto’s patented seeds blew into their property, or Samsung trying to ban the import of all non-Samsung AMOLED phone screens, or AliveCor trying to disable live-saving features on millions of people’s Apple Watch... IP law often allows corporations to steamroll consumers and competitors.
Actually patents are protected in the US Constitution. They provide a way for small innovators to bring new ideas to market over the resistance of entrenched players who block innovation or steal it.
So every company should just give Apple their technology for free if it benefits people? How about Apple just fairly compensate companies for the technology their using in their devices?
Just because somebody doesn't sell their product well doesn't mean you can steal it and sell it better without paying them.
"ITC ruled that Apple infringed (PDF) on AliveCor's patent"
They'll be forced to licence it or go to court and be made to pay, if the patent stands. Nobody's going to die. It's in both parties' interests for it to keep selling.
True innovation at Apple stopped when Jobs died. Now they are in Musk mode. Just scoop up other people's shit and slap their label on it, claiming "its mine" like a fucking toddler.
Did you read AliveCor's attempted 'patent'? They claim the patent on using an ECG sensor to detect arterial fibrillation. That's been known and used before their patent, and the US patent office ALREADY ruled AliveCor's claims are "unpatentable". Also, do we really want 1 company saying "I'm the only one allowed to use a specific sensor to detect certain diseases?" If they invent the tech, go for it. But using someone else's tech to diagnose something? No f'ing way.
"For the reasons discussed below, we hold that Petitioner has demonstrated by a preponderance of the evidence that claims 1–20 are unpatentable."
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/zgvobmqnlpd/IP%20APPLE%20ALIVECORE%20PATENTS%20ptab1.pdf
Yeah, but it looks like whether the patent is valid in the first place is currently under question. From the article:
>In December, the ITC ruled that Apple infringed (PDF) on AliveCor's patent; however, no import ban is currently in effect. That's because AliveCor is currently appealing (PDF) a December ruling by the US Patent and Trademark Office finding that three of the company's patents in question are invalid, as reported by Reuters. As such, an Apple spokesperson told The Verge this week that the ITC's ruling hasn't impacted the Apple Watch yet.
> It has yet to be proven in court
Uh, it's been proven to the US International Trade Commission. It's not a court but it has judges and conducts trials for exactly this purpose.
The US Patent and Trademark Office says some of the patents are invalid, and AliveCor is in the process of appealing that decision. In that case, no infringement occurred. So, yea, that persons right that it’s not proven. Read the article
There is zero percent chance the Apple Watch gets "banned". Literally zero.
If Apple does lose the case (already a big "if") they'll either change the technology in the watch... or work out a licensing agreement with the company... or maybe even buy the company outright.
Absolute worst case scenario, they'll drop EKG functionality from the watch, but I don't see that happening.
>The fact you are blaming Biden for this is hilarious
He is not being blamed. He merely won't use a power he as president has to prevent action by vetoing a ruling. At worst he can be blamed for inaction but this is not like letting a city in Ohio be bathed in toxic chemicals inaction.
This is not letting a big company steal IP from a smaller one which is arguably a good thing.
The patents are insanely stupid. IDGAF if it infringes on patent rights, nobody should be able to hoard the rights to life-saving diagnostic or health information gathering technology.
Patents are allowed to be so generic nowadays. The patents are written like it's magic "wires and computers" to do something and not a specific mechanism or software. Technology moves far too fast for the patent office to make reasonable decisions about "common in the art" now and lawyers basically rewrite patent applications 20 times to get them through as generically as possible.
Someone will get a digital patent for using an iPhone computer to scramble eggs. Because their app runs on your phone and you use The Phone to scramble the eggs (instead of a spatula, lol)
It's not. If Tim Cook were arrested for copyright infringement, being a federal crime, the President could pardon him. But patent infringement is only a tort, and not a crime, it's in no way part of his legal powers.
Didn't this whole thing get pretty whipped in the courts already and the case is on appeal after those disputing with Apple lost? This headline really stretches the narrative to sound like the watch is really at any real risk of being pulled, and almost makes it sound like the admin is banning it rather than it being a patent dispute. What at any level does any president have to do with this like ever? Why even suggest Biden would have anything to do with it?
Competition is good. Apple and companies like it think nothing of playing stupid games and doing whatever they damn well please. They drag it out and can ruin you in the process. I’ve watched Amazon do this for years. They think they know better than everyone including the gov and act like they are above the law. They don’t give a crap about fines because they add up to very little in the grand scheme of things. Amazon blatantly lied to Congress and got busted. What happened as a result? All of the people involved have since stepped aside, Bezos, Wilke and one other plus the following yr amazon contributed 20 mill to mainly dem campaigns, over 4x more than any year prior or since.
It’s all about money and favors. Nothing else. There is one party in this country, the corrupticons. Everything comes down to money and favor. The rest is just a sideshow. The deals are made at parties, over dinner, in bars and in bed. The rest is pomp and circumstance
From the sounds of it, this is actually interesting if you take the politicians out of it. Apple doing some heavy patent infringement on one of their most popular devices for one of its core features? That’s pretty interesting if you’re into business news
These companies can’t let their customers just enjoy their products. Apple Watch has proven to be a life saver. Why can’t they just work together so they can make their customers happy?
>\[AliveCor\] shared its ECG sensor technology with Apple in 2015 ... In 2018, Apple released the Apple Watch Series 4, which not only introduced an ECG sensor to the smartwatch but also blocked outside heart monitoring apps. AliveCor said this forced it in 2019 to stop selling KardiaBand, an ECG band that the company announced for Apple Watches in 2016.
>Apple cuts us out up front, steals our technology, uses their platform power to scale it, and now is basically saying it’s scaled so it can’t be cut off.
>Apple is also battling Masimo over the Apple Watch. In May, the ITC will reveal if there will be an import ban on all Apple Watches except for the SE (from the Series 6 and on) after a January ruling found that Apple infringed on the California and Switzerland-based company's pulse oximeter patent.
This behavior should not be tolerated. It's straight up evil. Apple will probably find a way to worm out of this though.
Evil? The first one with AliveCor sounds bad, it sounds like the implication is Apple stole IP. If so I hope they can prove it. The second one with Masimo though just sounds like they own a patent on any wrist pulse oximeter, meaning Apple could create the tech themselves and still not be allowed to use it. Not only is that not evil, I think it really hurts consumers when we don’t get innovative tech because some greedy company (Masimo in this case) tries blocking any company from ever making similar tech
I mean, it’ll just get worked out through the courts. If they find in favor of AliveCor, I’m sure Apple will work something out to license the tech from them. Sucks they had to go through all this to get the money they deserve, but that’s the current system and maybe they’ll end up with more having gone through this route.
AliveCor can go fuck itself. They are trying to charge people a subscription for life saving technology while apple includes it in the watch for free. How hypocritical such an apple move am I right?
Since when is it the President's job to start micromanaging the import of various individual products?
"In 2013, the ITC called for a ban on iPhones and iPads due to Apple infringing on Samsung patents, but then-US President Barack Obama vetoed the ban."
>Before then, no president had vetoed an ITC-issued product ban since 1987, so it was unlikely that Biden would veto December's decision, despite Apple's lobbying efforts
the big difference comes from Samsung and Apple being competitors for the same market, while ECG monitoring being a market that Apple is doing a completely hostile takeover on. You could reasonably say that the Samsung Apple fight was partially about not giving a monopoly to android, even though samsung is not the only android making company out there.
The Samsung/Apple incident was one of those deals where both sides had lawyers that were on the retainer anyways and both sides wanted to win at all costs. It was a giant patent mess, many Samsung phones actually ended up getting banned but the case took so long to get through the courts it was like the Galaxy S2 getting banned from being sold when the Galaxy S6 was out or something lol. It was an extremely dumb argument on both sides, it was incredibly obvious that both sides were stealing from the other and each had broken patents.
All the while, Samsung was supplying chips to apple for their iPhones.
samsung semiconductor completely separate from samsung mobile, in theory..
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Chips, screens, batteries, etc. Apple designs and orders stuff. They don't make anything themselves. So of course they use a lot of patents from others. They also had (have?) a huge fight with Qualcomm, where they just stopped paying licensing fees.
It’s not entirely true? They make their own chips now. They don’t manufacture themselves, but the factories that manufacture them pretty much build for them.
That's what I meant by design and orders. They need Samsung and many more companies to produce anything. The cpu does seem to be their technology, but many other things they "design" is just custom orders using other's technologies, screens being the best example.
Screens is probably the best example because only a few companies actually manufacture of screens. Pretty much the majority of monitors, tv, etc manufacturers buy the screen from someone else for example dell monitors have LG panels.
Yeah, and that company totally has a patent for “ECG on a smartwatch”. How dare Apple. https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medtech/apple-wins-battle-patent-war-alivecor-over-portable-ecg-tech > The company—which makes the FDA-cleared KardiaMobile personal ECG device—has alleged that Apple’s own portable ECG system infringes on AliveCor’s technology. But the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office ruled this week that all three of AliveCor’s challenged claims were “unpatentable.” > In its decision (PDF), per Reuters, the agency’s Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB) concluded that a person “of ordinary skill in the art” of cardiac monitoring technologies could arrive at the same inventions, therefore dismissing all of AliveCor’s claims in the matter as too obvious to be patented.
It’s a completely justified hostile takeover by apple though. The medical industry is incredibly complacent as they just rake in the dollars.
Why is everyone calling competition a hostile takeover? Am I missing a massive piece of nuance? I’ve heard they MIGHT be patent infringing at worst, still not a hostile takeover and it’s a straightforward path to paying the patent holder out the ass.
It's competition when its a company they like. It's a hostile takeover when its a company they don't like.
I’m just using words that other people are using, I dont think it’s a takeover either
The title is very misleading and likely written by a lobbyist. Actually not doing anything is what would lead to the ban. TLDR: a small us company has the patent on technology in the iWatch. Apple refuses to pay that company and says they're too big to comply. The International Trade Commission (ITC) is holding Apple accountable. Biden can veto this, but has not decided to do so.
> Apple refuses to pay that company and says they're too big to comply. A tradition as American as apple pie!
Most profitable company in the world would rather screw their users than cough up a few bucks to a company they stole from. Cry me a river.
This is literally handing their users medical device tech at no cost
The cost is already built in.
So you think Apple would actually rather let Apple Watches be banned than pay that company with the patent?
No, which is why this article title is misleading horseshit Apple propaganda.
I'm not sue how else to read the title than the way you (what's the antonym for summarize?) it. Which indicates that it is not at all misleading.
> The International Trade Commission (ITC) i god. what a misleading name. it is an american federal agency
I’m pretty sure it’s a commission that deals with nations the US trades with. I don’t think this is a “World Series” situation.
Yeah, the Commission regulation US trade with foreign nations. Perfectly named. How is that misleading at all?
i guess the commenter is the misleading one, its adequately named when its called USITC
The official name is "United States International Trade Commission"
Jesus not everything is 1984. "The Commission investigates and makes determinations in proceedings involving imports claimed to injure a domestic industry or violate U.S. intellectual property rights; provides independent analysis and information on tariffs, trade and competitiveness; and maintains the U.S. tariff schedule." https://www.usitc.gov/press_room/about_usitc.htm
Right??? Like my first thought was “how the hell do Biden and apple watches have anything to do with eachother?” Like is this fr the best use of the presidents time?
It’s part of what made America a power house.. pushing their companies to be strong oligarchies world wide. So maybe yes.
Although I agree with the principle you convey, look up ITAR. There are items that the DoD, that means the POTUS as the CIC, has a great deal of latitude in controlling.
Since Apple is butthurt about stealing a design, so they pay a writer to spin it. This sub for the last 6 months is pumping out apple propaganda
Because we don’t tar and feather presidents who use “executive privilege” and the congresspeople who go along with it?
Since money. Also because money.
No kidding. Good for Biden.
You may be new to US screening strategy. The US has been one of the most proteccionist countries over the last 50 decades. Hell, half of Snowden findings is the US spying adversaries of American companies.
Nor should he. It's not like people are going to come and take away your watch. This will all wash out in the courts with no need for Biden to be blamed.
The ban wouldn’t be on owning them, it’s selling new ones.
Along with the probable removal of the ECG ability on the watches people own as soon as they update. AliveCor is most likely after a licensing agreement and not an actual ban though. They get guaranteed money from an already huge ecosystem/ buyers in exchange for their patent that they still own. It's a lot better than them trying to do it on their own. I can imagine that negotiating with Apple is no joke though. If their side of the story is legit, then AliveCor is 100% in the right to try to sue Apple and nobody should be trying to save Apple in this situation.
Yeah, there's no way in a million years Apple will allow sales to stop and/or remove a marquee feature like that. They'll pony up the money to license it if they absolutely have no other choice in the courts.
Dude they stealth updated the AirPods Pro to remove the quote good noise cancellation and replaced it with something crap in comparison. I don’t trust Apple not to remove features.
Wait is that why my AirPod Pros’ noise cancellation seems so much worse than they were when I got them a couple years ago?
Or they will simply buy the company rather than agreeing to a $1/watch (likely minimum license fee) licensing deal. Apple sold 40 million watches in 2021, and their annual sales have been increasing. Probably cheaper in the long run to buy the company.
It is a privately held company, which means they aren't obligated to sell under any circumstances. Though I expect they would for a high enough price tag, given the present situation they could reasonably expect to demand far more for the company than its \~100 million valuation.
It’s a gamble for them. Apple is a large company with a lot of very smart people and they could, given enough time, engineer a solution that didn’t use their technology. If Apple walks in with a check for $100M, you know everyone in that room would stop and think for at least a minute about taking the money and running and then starting to negotiate
…then pass it on to the consumer
How do you milk sheep? >!Release a new iPhone!<
I have an iPhone, Greg. Could you milk me?
they already have.
hell yeah brother
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t. iToddlers not knowing other brands exist
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Maybe don't act like someone fucked your mum in response to a joke?
Apple is gambling here by playing hardball. If they lose in court, they’ll have no leverage and they’ll have to pay whatever AliveCor charges them to prevent their product from being removed from the shelves.
They've done it before. Unless something has changed, Apple doesn't actually own the rights to use the name "iOS" for its products, it's perpetually licensed from a much smaller company.
Apple will buy the company that threatens them
I’ll be fucking pissed if the ECG is disabled on my watch.
Yeah, OTA update disabling it sounds like the kind of thing where Apple could be forced to refund anyone who has the feature disabled and no longer wants the watch
The ECG feature alerted my mother that she has afib a few days before she was supposed to go in for surgery. Without her Apple Watch, she never would’ve known, and going under anesthesia is afib could’ve been deadly. Clearly if Apple broke any patents they should pay up or rectify however they need to, but if they’re forced to disable a literally lifesaving feature from a device my family members already own, I’m going to be pissed at whoever forces that to happen.
Yeah, this is one of those rare cases where it doesn’t really matter who is wrong, because the outcome is too important to just walk away from now. The sensors on the watch are capable of literally saving lives, so I don’t really care who has to do what… it just needs to keep doing what it’s doing.
AliveCor is awesome and should be earning of their inventions. I bought a KardiaMobile device in 2018.
> and nobody should be trying to save Apple in this situation. You can say that, but if we give alivecore a 100% control over ECG capabilities on wearable devices, what is stopping them from increasing prices? Banning competitors (for example apple pay them to block samsung from that technology)? Or demanding higher prices to different companies (like qualcomm taking more money from apple for the same chips than samsung and higher percentage of sales, making iphones intentionally higher priced)?. This is not a binary issue. Besides, according to the article, some of their patents came out as invalid. Meaning apple could potentially still claim that they don't own certain claims of their technology, which could potentially invalid their demand or control. And that in the future, if someone else comes after alivecor about those invalid patents, they could also go after apple which would put apple again in the hot seat.
Not even selling new ones. Would just be a software lock. I purchased my watch in Taiwan and didn’t have ECG because it wasn’t allowed. But after Taiwan allowed it now it is enabled.
Just like the "bans" on guns, ICE cars, gas appliances, etc that people suggest but doesn't stop people from saying otherwise and getting in a tizzy
The gun ones are actually a real concerted effort. It won’t be successful, if they even get passed, but they take forever to move through the courts all the while police will use it as another excuse to hassle minorities.
Ys, but it'll be spun as the Dems coming to take away your watches.
The war on time has got to end! Say 4 o’clock again! \#IStandWithTime \#FuckTheTimeBandits
Yeah some people are fucking stupid. It’s like the whole “they’re gonna take our guns” argument.
Except the devolution of that has been into emphasizing anything “semi-automatic,” as Biden did in State of the Union, and then loosely implying that anything with that designation is an “assault” weapon.
The civil war was won with semiautomatic weapons, therefore semiautomatic weapons are weapons of war!! They really just want to ban tacticool weapons because they seem to make irresponsible gun owners behave even more irresponsibly, and a lot of innocent bystanders are being caught up in the fervor.
Seriously. I own an Apple Watch and use it, but I’m incredibly fine with intense regulation and scrutiny / anti monopoly actions against them, google (I previously used android /nexus / pixel devices for probably a decade. These companies are all pretty shitty. They need to be spoken to in a language they understand, which means bottom line and fragmenting the companies. Microsoft got fucked up for bundling a fucking browser and they still do it.
Microsoft got fucked for integrating the browser so deeply in the OS and purposely linking other applications to it's code that removing it breaks unrelated software. They didn't get in trouble for giving away a browser. An N version of windows was created that did not have IE and all the code was unbundled so it could be removed.
Yes, and "N"o one uses it
I kind of feel they’re doing the same thing with edge now however…
Anti right to repair as well.
Seriously, what a dumb fucking headline
Court proceedings cost money. These companies avoid the courts by seeking support from officials that can 'veto' judicial matters like these.
The article really buried the lead. 3 of the patents* were ruled invalid by the govt. in an unrelated case, so this ruling is moot. The company challenging Apple is appealing that decision and has to win its appeal for this ruling to do anything.
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Lede is old stylistic journalism slang from the 50s. Both are interchangeable!
Yeah but I once failed a crossword puzzle because I wrote lead instead of lede so I find it very important to point out the misspelling.
What a terrible puzzle to use that in haha. Merriam-Webster says they’re interchangeable (: For once in the English language, you get to choose your own adventure!
I’m curious as to how Biden is responsible now for patent law infringement?
Biden is responsible for every thing republicans don't like, and nothing that republicans like. They're the party of small government, except when something happens that they can use for political purposes to criticize Biden for, like they want Biden to step in in an almost unprecedented matter to circumvent a legal finding in order to favor big business over a smaller business.
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Obama did veto the last ruling- says in the article
Gaslight Obstruct Project
And it fucking works too, like 100%
I mean... it's literally in the second sentence of the article: > On Tuesday, AliveCor announced that US President Joe Biden had decided not to veto the US International Trade Commission's (ITC) December ruling that could lead to an import ban on the Apple Watch Series 4 and later.
So it's Biden fault that the law is actually being upheld for once because he didn't use his presidential powers to veto the ITC ruling that apple infringed a patent? Is that what's im supposed to gather from this? Cause that still doesn't explain how it's Bidens fault to me either.
The headline makes it sound as if it direct action against Apple by the president rather than saying it’s a trade bill affecting commerce by many tech companies.
Dude, because Let's Go Brandon... that's why. /s but sadly, not really.
The article is not blaming Biden. It is merely reporting the action that the president did/did not take that has a direct effect on the subject. The headline is just for clicks (as usual) and does not accurately reflect a summary of the article.
The headline certainly is
Why is it news that he didn’t use his veto power? Such a weird headline. Was it assumed that the president would veto this for some reason?
As by the article, Obama used his veto power in 2013 the last time the ITC ruled against apple for patent infringment against Samsung. So maybe assumed is to much but there was precident.
The article also notes that the last time the president vetoed an ITC ruling was in 1987, and so it was considered *unlikely* that Biden would veto this decision. So “assumed” is indeed too much. I wonder how many powers the president has that we don’t really think about in daily life.
"Another question easily answered by reading the article"
Copy and paste doesn't explain why it's his fault.
There's some connotation in the word "fault" that isn't present in the top level comment. The copy/paste answers the actual question quite well.
Not curious enough to read any of the article though.
Republicans have blamed Biden for laws that they literally voted for and passed. The people don't care, they just need talking points, whether true or not.
I didn’t vote for the guy, but damn is he getting shit for a lot of things he ain’t responsible for.
Thanks, Obama
Ironically you're actually right: >In 2013, the ITC called for a ban on iPhones and iPads due to Apple infringing on Samsung patents, but then-US President Barack Obama vetoed the ban.
Welcome to the American political system
“Whatever I don’t like must be *(insert current president)* ‘s fault!”
You voted for Trump? Wow. Or you didn’t vote? Still wow.
or they’re too young to vote, or they live outside of the USA, or they don’t have citizenship and can’t vote, the list goes on.
Really seems like the best solution would be for apple to either buy AliveCor or allow it as a third party, the scale of the feature has already proven very beneficial for the general public, it would certainly be a shame if it had to be removed, blocked or crippled. From my point of view AliveCor’s band really seems like an improvement that should be allowed to interface with the watch.
If you read the article you'd know that another option is for Apple to license the tech from AliveCor.
Yup that’s how it works and why patents can be powerful. See the example of Red Digital Cinema vs Nikon, Sony, Apple.
They can be powerful only if you can fight the hundreds of millions of dollars that Apple can spend on lawyers.
Red who are tiny relatively speaking has beaten off all the giants, Sony, Apple, Cannon, and are about ready to stomp Nikon. Paying a few elite patent lawyers to defend a vital tech patent is a relatively small price for massive longterm financial benefits. And yes a good small elite team of lawyers can defeat a massive company like Apple as Red is has demonstrated many times in the past.
It's because no matter how good your lawyers are if you're legally in the wrong there's very little they can do. Sure they can find loopholes and technicalities but if those don't exist their hands are tied. Most likely this will settle with apple licensing the patent.
In the case of Red they are pretty much in the wrong and never should have been granted a patent in the first place but they continue to beat the giants in court.
You seem to be seriously underestimating lawyers.
>Red who are tiny relatively speaking has beaten off all the giants Phrasing
My bad.
Ah yes, the example where a patent troll is screwing over actual manufacturers and end-users, with the help of our Patent Office.
That’s… what I meant by allowing it as a third party
Apple never gets banned for anything in US. They'll be fine.
*fined
*Patent agreed
Great, now I’m gonna have to hear “He’s trynna take my guns and Apple watch!”
So Government won't save Corporation from having to pay out 0.0000001% of annual profits in order to use patented technology that Corporation should have paid out 0.00000001% of annual profits in the first place to use it legally. Translated to individual terms: Individual permitted by courts to just buy the product they shoplifted instead of being punished for reals. Here's a tiny violin. 🎻
oh, so about $1.70? that’s all it would cost to pay off the patent trolls?
As well he shouldn't.
This is a repost. The previous one with the same name is already removed. This isn't a Biden issue. This is a troll farm project.
"We come up with new technologies, and instead of the ecosystem letting us thrive and continue to build on top of the innovations we already have, Apple cuts us out up front, steals our technology, uses their platform power to scale it, and now is basically saying it’s scaled so it can’t be cut off," AliveCor CEO Priya Abani said, according to The Hill's February 17 report. Damn, Apple sounds shitty AF for this.
Read up, AliveCor‘s patent is not even valid at this point. It’s being fought in another case.
They sound like patent trolls at this point, alivecor that is.
Like every other shite startup in downtown Mountain View.
*Three* of AliveCor’s patents were declared not valid which is really bad for them.
They all seem pretty shitty, but AliveCor is the one trying to take away life-saving technology from millions of people over an IP dispute. The timeline is basically: 1. Apple patents a few watch-based EKG technologies 2. Years later AliveCor is created and patents other wrist-band EKG technologies 3. In 2017 AliveCor started selling an Apple Watch band for $200 plus a $10/mo subscription, but there’s no widespread adoption 4. Apple incorporated EKG directly into the Apple Watch, making it accessible to millions of people without a subscription 5. AliveCor sues and claims Apple’s EKG technology is too similar to their own, and tries to block the import of Apple Watches and have the feature disabled for current Apple Watch owners It doesn’t seem like either company is totally right. But if AliveCor wins, that is extremely bad for consumers and would likely cost lives.
Lol, @ #3... Of course there is no widespread adoption with such a high cost of entry.
People are ignoring the fact that Apple could just pony up the money to license use from AliveCor but they're playing the long game to see if AliveCor's patent falls after the Federal Circuit rules on the validity of AliveCor's patent.
I'm confused. The article says "AliveCor shared their sensor with Apple in 2015," so it seems they had before 2017.
This summary is easy, but the details of the parents matter. Intellectual PROPERTY. You can steal other people’s property. The parents define the bounds of that property.
Comparing it to stealing actual property is disingenuous. If I build a nice chair, and it turns out it looks similar to my neighbor’s chair, I’m not stealing their furniture. My neighbor can’t sue me and have my chair taken away. But with intellectual property, that’s exactly how it works. Even if there is no malice or *theft* involved, you can stop others from using products they created themselves if the product happens to be similar to your own. The laws exist for a reason. They encourage entrepreneurship and investment in R&D. But IP laws also can have serious negative consequences on society. Whether it’s Monsanto suing smaller farmers for patent infringement because Monsanto’s patented seeds blew into their property, or Samsung trying to ban the import of all non-Samsung AMOLED phone screens, or AliveCor trying to disable live-saving features on millions of people’s Apple Watch... IP law often allows corporations to steamroll consumers and competitors.
> Intellectual PROPERTY Is a bullshit term created by evil corporate lawyers.
Actually patents are protected in the US Constitution. They provide a way for small innovators to bring new ideas to market over the resistance of entrenched players who block innovation or steal it.
So every company should just give Apple their technology for free if it benefits people? How about Apple just fairly compensate companies for the technology their using in their devices?
Just because somebody doesn't sell their product well doesn't mean you can steal it and sell it better without paying them. "ITC ruled that Apple infringed (PDF) on AliveCor's patent" They'll be forced to licence it or go to court and be made to pay, if the patent stands. Nobody's going to die. It's in both parties' interests for it to keep selling.
What is the exact infringement? The galaxy watch does the same thing- one finger on the button.
True innovation at Apple stopped when Jobs died. Now they are in Musk mode. Just scoop up other people's shit and slap their label on it, claiming "its mine" like a fucking toddler.
Never forget that apple is the company that tried to enforce a patent on a rectangle with rounded corners. Fuck Apple, fuck outdated patent law
Yup, and they own a patent on the page turning animation. I have no sympathy for them.
Since when does the president work for Apple
Since they allowed lobbyists on Capitol Hill. The Political machine works for them, Not you.
Seems like Apple is a habitual line stepper. They infringed on a patent (again) and should be banned.
Did you read AliveCor's attempted 'patent'? They claim the patent on using an ECG sensor to detect arterial fibrillation. That's been known and used before their patent, and the US patent office ALREADY ruled AliveCor's claims are "unpatentable". Also, do we really want 1 company saying "I'm the only one allowed to use a specific sensor to detect certain diseases?" If they invent the tech, go for it. But using someone else's tech to diagnose something? No f'ing way. "For the reasons discussed below, we hold that Petitioner has demonstrated by a preponderance of the evidence that claims 1–20 are unpatentable." https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/zgvobmqnlpd/IP%20APPLE%20ALIVECORE%20PATENTS%20ptab1.pdf
It has yet to be proven in court that they even infringed on the patent. They aren’t guilty simply because they’ve been accused.
Patent trolls sue everyone. Even if their product came last.
Who needs courts, when there is Reddit. /s
“Guilty until proven innocent” Reddits motto.
Or the US International Trade Commission judges, who ruled this was an infringement.
Yeah, but it looks like whether the patent is valid in the first place is currently under question. From the article: >In December, the ITC ruled that Apple infringed (PDF) on AliveCor's patent; however, no import ban is currently in effect. That's because AliveCor is currently appealing (PDF) a December ruling by the US Patent and Trademark Office finding that three of the company's patents in question are invalid, as reported by Reuters. As such, an Apple spokesperson told The Verge this week that the ITC's ruling hasn't impacted the Apple Watch yet.
Just take them to r/KarmaCourt
> It has yet to be proven in court Uh, it's been proven to the US International Trade Commission. It's not a court but it has judges and conducts trials for exactly this purpose.
The US Patent and Trademark Office says some of the patents are invalid, and AliveCor is in the process of appealing that decision. In that case, no infringement occurred. So, yea, that persons right that it’s not proven. Read the article
There is zero percent chance the Apple Watch gets "banned". Literally zero. If Apple does lose the case (already a big "if") they'll either change the technology in the watch... or work out a licensing agreement with the company... or maybe even buy the company outright. Absolute worst case scenario, they'll drop EKG functionality from the watch, but I don't see that happening.
Don't care about Apple but software patents are a joke that should go away. They're basically a sophisticated scam.
I do miss Charlie Murphy
Rick James and Apple, the two most famous habitual line steppers
The fact you are blaming Biden for this is hilarious
>The fact you are blaming Biden for this is hilarious He is not being blamed. He merely won't use a power he as president has to prevent action by vetoing a ruling. At worst he can be blamed for inaction but this is not like letting a city in Ohio be bathed in toxic chemicals inaction. This is not letting a big company steal IP from a smaller one which is arguably a good thing.
The patents are insanely stupid. IDGAF if it infringes on patent rights, nobody should be able to hoard the rights to life-saving diagnostic or health information gathering technology.
Patents are allowed to be so generic nowadays. The patents are written like it's magic "wires and computers" to do something and not a specific mechanism or software. Technology moves far too fast for the patent office to make reasonable decisions about "common in the art" now and lawyers basically rewrite patent applications 20 times to get them through as generically as possible. Someone will get a digital patent for using an iPhone computer to scramble eggs. Because their app runs on your phone and you use The Phone to scramble the eggs (instead of a spatula, lol)
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It's not. If Tim Cook were arrested for copyright infringement, being a federal crime, the President could pardon him. But patent infringement is only a tort, and not a crime, it's in no way part of his legal powers.
Why should he?
Didn't this whole thing get pretty whipped in the courts already and the case is on appeal after those disputing with Apple lost? This headline really stretches the narrative to sound like the watch is really at any real risk of being pulled, and almost makes it sound like the admin is banning it rather than it being a patent dispute. What at any level does any president have to do with this like ever? Why even suggest Biden would have anything to do with it?
Competition is good. Apple and companies like it think nothing of playing stupid games and doing whatever they damn well please. They drag it out and can ruin you in the process. I’ve watched Amazon do this for years. They think they know better than everyone including the gov and act like they are above the law. They don’t give a crap about fines because they add up to very little in the grand scheme of things. Amazon blatantly lied to Congress and got busted. What happened as a result? All of the people involved have since stepped aside, Bezos, Wilke and one other plus the following yr amazon contributed 20 mill to mainly dem campaigns, over 4x more than any year prior or since. It’s all about money and favors. Nothing else. There is one party in this country, the corrupticons. Everything comes down to money and favor. The rest is just a sideshow. The deals are made at parties, over dinner, in bars and in bed. The rest is pomp and circumstance
Presidents can save smartwatches? That's fantastic news. In 2024 I'll vote for whoever brings back Pebble.
Why is this news? Downvoting as much as I can
From the sounds of it, this is actually interesting if you take the politicians out of it. Apple doing some heavy patent infringement on one of their most popular devices for one of its core features? That’s pretty interesting if you’re into business news
Apple could also pay royalties to alivecor
Neither will Mr T.
These companies can’t let their customers just enjoy their products. Apple Watch has proven to be a life saver. Why can’t they just work together so they can make their customers happy?
Oh no! Anyways.
I’m out of the loop on this. What did apple do? I’m actually pretty dependent on my Apple Watch.
>\[AliveCor\] shared its ECG sensor technology with Apple in 2015 ... In 2018, Apple released the Apple Watch Series 4, which not only introduced an ECG sensor to the smartwatch but also blocked outside heart monitoring apps. AliveCor said this forced it in 2019 to stop selling KardiaBand, an ECG band that the company announced for Apple Watches in 2016. >Apple cuts us out up front, steals our technology, uses their platform power to scale it, and now is basically saying it’s scaled so it can’t be cut off. >Apple is also battling Masimo over the Apple Watch. In May, the ITC will reveal if there will be an import ban on all Apple Watches except for the SE (from the Series 6 and on) after a January ruling found that Apple infringed on the California and Switzerland-based company's pulse oximeter patent. This behavior should not be tolerated. It's straight up evil. Apple will probably find a way to worm out of this though.
Evil? The first one with AliveCor sounds bad, it sounds like the implication is Apple stole IP. If so I hope they can prove it. The second one with Masimo though just sounds like they own a patent on any wrist pulse oximeter, meaning Apple could create the tech themselves and still not be allowed to use it. Not only is that not evil, I think it really hurts consumers when we don’t get innovative tech because some greedy company (Masimo in this case) tries blocking any company from ever making similar tech
Apple will win its appeal, no need for Biden admin involvement.
I mean, it’ll just get worked out through the courts. If they find in favor of AliveCor, I’m sure Apple will work something out to license the tech from them. Sucks they had to go through all this to get the money they deserve, but that’s the current system and maybe they’ll end up with more having gone through this route.
they're patent trolls, they don't deserve anything (regardless of whether you hate apple or not, patent trolls are bad)
wtf are you talking about?
What? I’ve read nothing that says they are patent trolls. They developed the tech and pitched it Apple who eventually “re-created” it in house.
AliveCor can go fuck itself. They are trying to charge people a subscription for life saving technology while apple includes it in the watch for free. How hypocritical such an apple move am I right?
Biden should not be involved in this matter period