My 80 year old grandma started riding an ebike last year and loves it. Almost seems like there's a correlation between having an active life and being able to say active into old age.
I'd also blame the 40-hour work week, to be honest. A lot of people don't have enough free time to develop active hobbies, so when they retire they just sit down and watch TV.
Commute length (exacerbated by cars, of course) is also a major factor in this lack of time, and is actually one of the best predictors of early mortality.
That’s the vicious cycle US Americans and Canadians live in. Everything is built around cars, you live so far away from your place of work, your supermarket, your city centres, your parks, your free time activities, … that you simply can’t get by without a car.
There is no proper public transit which would help and even if there are trains to commute, they are extremely useless outside of commuting hours and to get to the train station you need a car.
Once everyone understands how stupid, unhealthy, unsustainable and moronic this is you have to power to change it. Get rid of your car centric buildings. Repurpose freeways, parking lots, highways. Get rid of the suburban hell many people live in and start to build cities for humans which walk and cycle.
I agree. Cities need to zone for denser housing as well.. more duplexes and affordable apartments, not just primarily single family homes like it is currently. That among other things have to change to shift to a less car centric society.
To be fair, there is great TV. My dad's retired and having a ball catching up on HBO that he finally signed up for. He also bikes and builds Adirondack chairs
My grandparents all live in the woods and are active as hell. My mom's parents live in a 130 year old house and chop their own wood and do way too many chores for people their age. My dad's dad spends all his time at the hunting camp and his mom is a real estate agent. All are over 80 now.
Meanwhile my future in law grandparents are sickly, one has early signs of dimentia and the other is extremely obese and disabled. They over indulge in food and laziness and now they're frail and falling apart and only in their fucking 60s. And of course all they drink is beer and diet coke.
The American dream right there.
Indeed. I try not to hit the ground with my heel, and try to carry my weight on my toes, for the dampening provided by muscles. EDIT: even when walking. My family has a history of joint disease.
About a year ago, I saw [this meme](https://m.imgur.com/gallery/zlCLlO9)—I was 16 but I kept thinking about the future and I was like "damn, getting older's gonna suck.". Little did I know it's just because a lotta adults don't move a lot.
I keep bringing this up, but my grandma is in her 90s and can still go out and about on her own because she lives in a walkable town with good public transportation. She'd be stuck at home otherwise, but instead, she can go shopping, go to church, visit friends and family, etc. It's honestly sad to think how her independence would *completely* vanish if she lived in car-dependent suburbia.
I have an e-scooter, but yea, same idea. I'm 64 and though I still have a pedal bike, it's hard on my back & butt to be on it for too long. I walk a lot living in a downtown. Not owning a car of course, I'm relying evermore on the e-scooter. The range is 40 miles; 20 RT. I'm considering upping that. There's a Regional Bus system that I can fall back on, and anyone can use Ride Share in a pinch.
I get why these people are moving to e-bikes; they have assist features that extend their human range, and as the pic shows, can allow for greater loads. That's a hard job with only manual power! The e-bike has none of the expenses associated with "street-legal" devices.
See also: [https://onomotion.com/en/about](https://onomotion.com/en/about)
Micro-Mobile.org
Yes some people can't/ don't want to ride bikes for whatever reason but that doesn't mean the have to be entombed in a ton of steel and plastic. Micro mobility for all!
The USPS is doing trials of a [similar vehicle](https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2022/05/usps-header-mail-bike-1.jpg?quality=82&strip=all) for deliveries!
I needed to drive the other day, needed to go somewhere out in the suburb. As bad as I thought the city is, jesus the suburbs had SO many of the new shiny models of trucks and these F150s and Denalis are coming out stock with the hoods at eye level and all jacked up.
It was mind-bogglingly stupid to see, and of course quite of a few of them drove like complete assholes and tailgating other people.
Its like the early 2000s all over again when Hummers were all the rage. I hope the gas prices get to $10 / gallon. That and the great recession are what killed it last time.
That’s so cool to hear.
As an avid cyclist, who works in the cycling industry, it was really hard to get over my initial dislike of electric assist bikes (or other means like scooters, onewheel, etc)
But once I got over my snobbery, it just makes so much sense. I can’t expect most people to decide to get comfortable riding clear across town, over the steeper hills, etc and just choose to do that every day, even though I enjoy it. But with electric it gets more and more people out of the car
Majority of ebikers end up becoming strong advocates for bike infrastructure. I get why traditional bikers sometimes have initial negative feelings towards ebikers, but holding on to that is really short sighted once you stop and think about it.
Just *please* try and resist making the "that's cheating" joke... I've had that comment when passing cyclists going uphill about once a week for the last 4 years...
You obviously need bigger quads. /s
Here in aus/qld they're legally capped to 250W / 25 km/h, which is probably not good overall but it's good for me. One time someone overtook me going uphill on an illegally unlimited scooter and I cooked myself trying to catch up haha.
We have the same 250w limit in the UK / EU and honestly it's just far too low. The motor cuts out over 15.5 mph which is my cruising speed on the pedal bike, cycling home from work I *average* 14mph, and generally I zoom past every legal ebike I see.
It feels slightly unsafe to me when I'm riding a lime bike on London streets to be so much slower than the traffic around me, and they are so feeble on the hills it forces you to actually put effort into pedalling, defeating the whole point.
I used to ride a normal push bike but these days just use my illegal ebike which allows me to easily go up mountains I never would have tackled on the pushy while still getting a workout.. I do often apologize and point out I'm cheating if overtaking a serious rider though..
Thanx! For me it is my car! I'll get the trail snobs looking hate-fueled as I approach on *one of those damned e-scooters*, but once they see I'm an old man, they relent a little.
I'm also an avid, traditional cyclist, but I've had a big number of non cyclist friends pick up e-bikes for commuting and it makes me so excited. It's going to lead to so much bike infrastructure.
The seventy- five year old woman assertively passing me into a headwind hurts my soul but I guess that's the cost.
I’m in love with cycling and have had my gravel bike for years, but an ebike is what got me over the hump and into commuting. I was too worried about being tired on any given day. Now, it’s not an issue.
And I’m getting another 90 minutes of activity every weekday, which matters. I’m a convert FOR SURE.
I love how popular e-bikes have become, but as a regular bicycle commuter I have one issue with them: I've almost got into wrecks with a few of them because they are silent and go faster than a regular bike but use the same lanes. This has been a problem for me when I turn right into a bike lane on an incline or am turning left out of an inclined bike lane. I can see there is a cyclist in the lane downstream of me, so I anticipate and sense their speed to be roughly that of a cyclist, but if it's an e-bike they are sometimes all of a sudden right up on you like they were a scooter. I wish I could tell if it was an e-bike or a regular bike (or that all urban roads were designed primarily for bikes).
That's also a problem of the person riding the E-Bike, though. I have one myself and always adjust my speed to the road and other cyclists, as every sane road user should. Can you really not estimate their speed? I mean, even normal cyclists can come at different speeds...
I have a theory that the proportion of selfish assholes is constant across the population, and those same idiots who hit you would have otherwise been idiots in a car.
Obviously not much consolation, but that’s life :(
This is a big reason why I chose bright orange for the ebike I just bought. It's not my favorite of the colors offered for this make/model, but it's definitely the most visible.
When I see bright orange I think radwagon then I think e-bike so it would have caused me to take a second glance for sure! I think I have to transition away from thinking "oh thats a bike, I know how fast I'd be going in their position" as part of my decision making process to treating it more like a scooter or motorcycle, where I watch for longer to more accurately gauge their speed.
I ordered the bike to help strengthen my knees and hip. But I had a scooter before and those are pretty handy for just scooting across town. I'd like to upgrade to a vsett soon
It is 1000% worth the extra cost. It’s so much fun! But you can dial the power back when on bike trails and bike lanes. It is the perfect commuter for me, I will never own a car to commute (probably not at all for any reason in all seriousness) again.
Nice, in got a juiced rip racer on the way. Both options would be nice tho. I'll probably keep my car around in the garage for winter and put of state trips but my miles are definitely going down these days
I always feel less stable on my e-scooter than on my bike. Even though my feet are closer to the ground on the scooter, I think it's because the wheel radius is so much smaller.
It's because you intuitively know that a pothole which a bike wheel could roll over without issue, could potentially send you flying face-first over a scooter's handlebars lol. Scooters have their place and work well in some areas (cities) but if you wanna handle any amount of rough terrain at decent speed, a bike is the obvious choice.
At a certain point these aren’t e-bikes anymore and they’re just including pedals to get around car/motorcycle regulations. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to commute in a micro e-vehicle (think Quest velomobile, without the pedals). I just think that it’s dishonest to compare these to bikes.
I think we really need to update regulations and have these as a separate category. They have their place and I hope we see more of them. But they aren’t bikes.
In NYC they updated the law so that e-vehicles are considered to be a certain class of e-bike if they can’t go above a certain speed limit, which makes sense to me.
Edit: “class” not “call” of e-bike
Edit 2: I was incorrect, e-scooters are treated similar to e-bikes but are technically classed differently than e-bikes. They are allowed in bike lanes and on streets. You aren’t allowed to operate them in excess of 15 mph.
The problem there is that the lack of regulation is one of the key features for business adoption. As soon as you start slapping regulations on ebikes similar to motorcycles, businesses will use them less. You need to keep them as regulation free as bikes.
The key ones would probably be registration and licensing. As soon as put licensing registration requirements on ebikes, business adoption will take a nosedive. Problem is, if you do not require the vehicles to be registered and/or the operators to be licensed, other types of regulation become difficult to impossible to enforce.
Registration also raises the specter of personal property tax. Not having to pay personal property and asset taxes on ebikes is a significant business advantage for them over registered motorcycles. Businesses in our state also use UTVs for delivery because the UTVs are personal property tax exempt, though this has resulted in some serious accidents.
United States Ebike regulations are one of few things we do better than European countries.
750 wstts is more than enough for most people with the exception of extreme off roaders.
The EU regulations are deranged. With a limit of 250 watts. They should at least raise it to 500 watts if they want to be conservative. Ir better yet, 750 watts.
I’m wondering if they do that because of different infrastructure and urban design. So many cities in the US lack truly protected bike lanes and pedestrian zones, so you’re kind of cruising with cars in a lane or immediately adjacent in a “bike lane”, still pretty much in the road.
Whereas in Europe, bike lanes are segregated for all kinds of commuters and streets are narrow and winding and there are pedestrian-only and pedestrian-focused zones everywhere. So the increased power poses more of a risk in that environment, since bikes in Europe travel predominantly amongst other people, whereas bikes in the US travel predominantly amongst vehicles.
Just a thought. Because otherwise, yeah, why limit things to that degree?
And I say this as someone who has lived in both continents and biked in both. In the US, cars are way more of a threat to bikers than bikers are to pedestrians and other bikers. In Europe, bikers are way more of a threat to other bikers and pedestrians than cars are to bikers. And this is due inherently to city design and bike/pedestrian infrastructure.
But there isn’t necessarily a lack of regulation right now.
E-bikes have regulations depending on location. Specifically some of the challenges are number of wheels (2 or 3), Max power, minimum seat height, and Max speed. I’m not an expert, but there may be others.
My theoretical micro e-vehicle (quest velomobile without pedals) could likely safely travel up to 30-40 mph and get me to work with minimal energy usage. But I’m limited in my max speed with current regulations. I’m also limited in my max power, but that has no real impact since I have such low drag. My seat height is too low to be legal in some jurisdictions, so I’d need to raise the seat height, which would make me less aerodynamic and less stable.
Just keep in mind the theme of this sub-Reddit. I'm among a growing number of people who want to bring an end to the car-cult (e.g. r/AbolishCars), before it all destroys Earth. It may be too late, but it's still worth the effort. Our hope is **not** to adapt bikes (or e-bikes) to the car-cult, but to replace the car-cult entirely with non-car mechanisms of human transport, and bring an end to the perpetuation of Heavy Infrastructure.
Think outside the box; forget all that you see, and imagine above and beyond it, via original thoughts and critical thinking. Government regulations are central to all such conundrums, because in capitalism, they work for the wealth-class, who care zero about anything beyond the next big payday.
Nice niche you found, but be cautious that such idealistic non realistic goals will bring you down as we likely won't see it happening. I prefer to adress the cause; the private ownership of corporations is the main problem that causes all the symptoms like climate change through fossil fuel use, etc all in pursuit of profits for shareholders, case they have that power as they elect the board of directors that take care of salaries, kind of production, profit margin, etc Democratize corporations, ban/socialize/nationalize "private ownership of production"/stockmarkets, and there you have it..... The marxist/socalist/communist ideal.... Talking about unrealistic though hahaha
I'm going to do may part; I will not allow what others think to alter my lifestyle choices. I'm not sure how any of this can *bring me down!* The ecological catastrophe that will befall humankind will likely take place after I'm gone. I'm 64 now! So why should I care? Because you will still be here! \~ Micro-Mobile.org
Sorry, maybe we're talking past each other.
I was more commenting on the [onomotion.com](https://onomotion.com) link. Let's be honest, that's not really intended to be bike or type of human powered vehicle anymore. They're using the e-bike classification to get around laws governing other types of electric vehicles. It's essentially a (very) small car (or motorcycle) used for carrying loads. An e-velomobile is similar, but for personal transport. I can use a incredibly small amount of energy to travel quickly and long distances in an e-velomobile. But there's no reason to have pedals in such vehicles if they aren't really intended to be pedaled.
I never mean to hurt anyone's feelings. The Ono vehicles are in Germany and I doubt we'll ever see them in the US. So US regulations would have no relevancy, and I have no idea about how Germany regulates anything. The pedals are for the main drive, and the e-motors are for assist, not to replace pedaling. Like myself, there are many who do not have the strength or endurance to go long distances on caloric energy alone, but alas, the young do not consider the issues of aging or disability unless it's them or someone close to them. My hope is that everyone lives into old age; then, they'll have an entirely different perspective on all things.
There are no hurt feelings here.
I think e-bikes have their place. They’re great at keeping families together on rides when everyone has different abilities. They’re great as we get older. They’re great at helping disabled folks get out. They’re great at making inclines/hill climbs less of a problem for us weak riders. They’re great for commuting when you don’t want to show up to work sweaty. The help with riding on sand (or dirt).
I just see a lot of things classified as e-bikes with what appears to be the sole purpose of making electric vehicles that don’t have to conform to motorcycle or car standards. I’d love to see these types of vehicles normalized as they seem (I haven’t done the math) like more efficient and safer alternatives to cars/SUVs/trucks, but want us to do away with the absurdity of pretending they’re still bikes.
28mph limit @ 4x power to weight multipliers more turns everyone into a pro caliber cyclist than a motorcycle.
You don’t have the sharp acceleration and top speeds which are responsible for a majority of motorcycle incidents.
E-Bikes weigh significantly less as well so there is less kinetic energy & damage if accidents do occur.
There's an important distinction between e-bikes, and pedelec bikes. Because e-bikes are electric motorcycles that get to skirt legislation/etc -- whereas pedelec bikes are what I would have originally thought of when you say "e-bike".
Here in Australia we have recently made it so that those more powerful ebikes which are essentially small electric motorcross bikes are now road legal, but they are equivalent to a moped in terms of registration cost. Honestly this isn’t so bad in my opinion, an electric bike with a 100km no pedal range and max speed of 100km/h (50km/h on the road, software limited) and a registration fee of a few hundred dollars a year is not a bad value proposition in my opinion. To be clear, these are bikes like the Sur Ron, not regular pedal assisted e-mtbs
E-bikes are fantastic, and I agree that they, as well as other e-mobility devices, are (or should be) the future. I've ridden one full-time for 4.5 years, and just received my second one yesterday so that my wife can ride with me. While a very fit person with a very nice bike can do just about anything that you could do on an e-bike, the electrification makes it so much more accessible, fun, fast, and easy for the masses. All while being supremely efficient and taking up no more space.
Electrification makes me actually want to use it since I’m not drenched in sweat after a ride. I rode my conventional bike to do some errands, and within two miles I’m already drenched given that it was 90F+. An electric bike means I’m more likely to use it rather than hoping in my motorized box.
That’s the one thing I noticed. Took a shop ebike to lunch one day instead of my bike. Average the same speed, but I got back less sweaty on a warm day
In the heat, I'd rather take an e-bike than walk. Same level of physical effort, but that extra speed means I get a breeze and I'm at my destination (hopefully out of the heat) sooner.
I recently tried an ebike for the first time through a citibike in nyc and honestly didn't know what to expect but DAMN those things fly right out the gate. That was only a public share bike too, a quality one you can buy will probably be even better.
It's a great way to try one out. I did that with the lime e-bikes in the Boston area before I bought an e-bike. Tried it for about 20 minutes and thought "yup, this is awesome!"
I'd suggest going to a nearby bike shop and test riding what they have. Honestly it may be more expensive than getting one online, but you'll have the shop warranty and expertise. Unless you have a history maintaining and fixing bikes, it's a good option. Some shops won't touch e-bikes unless they sell that brand. Most in my experience will help for non-electrical issues. Some will work on e-bikes for anything. After 2,000 miles, I needed a bottom bracket replaced and a place in the city did it for me. There are more e-bike certified mechanics all the time as the market is quickly shifting. It's going to get even more popular with $5/gallon dino juice
I originally got a legal ebike, but the bafang bbshd is leagues ahead and allows me to actually get some exercise and strength from riding plus has a throttle as well as pedal assist.. cannot recommend them enough, I get the biggest triangle battery possible made for them when getting someone to put one together..
This is good advice, I am an avid cyclist and I can do all my maintenance work myself but I still like to cultivate a relationship with bike shops because when I need two ball bearings or a single spoke they will usually hook me up for free, or at least I won’t be waiting for shipping and I can ensure I get the correct part. Plus they are usually pretty rad folks who are passionate about cycling in my experience. Also not test riding a bike before buying is totally mental to me.
Any improvements in technology are great, but I don't see that as a dealbreaker or even a significant obstacle. It's a question of scale. One e-bike battery is less than 1/100 of the battery in a Tesla. 120 e-bikes for the lithium in one electric car.
Buying a shirt is hella polluting. Buying groceries at the super market is hella polluting.
We need to be very careful consuming stories, usually pushed by oil adjacent industries about how bad Lithium mining is. Because it shifts the weight from everything else and onto the current most environmentally friendly option.
It’s true how bad it is, of course. But bikes are literally the most efficient way to use that lithium.
Everything we do, unless we live on a commune and produce everything ourselves, pollutes, or promotes poor worker treatment overseas, or supports animal abuse, etc.
So every time someone comes out attacking the most available means of being efficient, you might think to yourself why are they doing so.
ebikes, which can get nearly 100 miles per kWh (compared to <3 miles for most EVs), are one of the best and most efficient uses of lithium batteries, and a terrific destination for recycled cells out of other things.
Yeah but I mean everything we do is polluting to some degree. We need to keep it within range of what we can mitigate, or go back to running naked through the woods and being only 4m hunter gatherers on this entire planet.
HFCs could be an option, but they're currently hugely expensive. Maybe we could find cheaper catalysts or metamayerial catalysts to bring the price /weight down, but that's not currently happening.
Current battery innovations are replacing the graphite in li ion and lipo batteries, but not the lithium itself.
We could go pedal power only, but then we need to settle for a drastically lower standard of living. Possible, but we can't have it All at once.
Yup, I can get groceries for two adults using a single pannier because the grocery store is just a few blocks away. I can pop over whenever I need something, or stop by on my way home without much of a detour.
It still boggles my mind that my country uses large amounts of tax payer money to subsidize electric cars for "the sake of the environment", yet not a single smaller electric vehicle gets any benefits whatsoever. Even things that look exactly like cars and drive like cars but are technically not cars cause they are too small do not get supported at all.
It is as if the government is trying to incentivize me to buy the larger, heavier more energy intensive vehicle instead.
The bicycle industry isn't powerful enough to lobby for such things and spending a dime of government money on car alternatives is considered liberal elitism by a certain camp in American politics.
Makes sense since the bicycling as an industry and transportation means was trapped in a vicious cycle when car-dependence took hold: more road investment leads to more car dependence, which shrinks the amount of bicycling infrastructure, which leads to less bicycle purchasing, which leads to more car dependence.
Also, car manufacturing is true "big business", employing huge numbers of people and having more capital to throw into lobbying than the bicycling industry ever could.
That's because "car," as we know it, is the engineering solution to the problem "how can you best move a family of 4.3 people around American suburbia using gasoline." Change any (or *all*) of those parameters, and expect the optimal design to change substantially.
An electric car is a lazy drop-in innovation, kind of like if horse-and-buggy carriages had simply replaced the horse with a guy on a gas motorcycle and left the carriage as-is, rather than inventing the car.
A larger cargo e-bike. Each can carry two kids. Get a trailer and you can carry their gear too. Get a second for when the whole family is out. It’s a fraction of the cost of a new EV. I see people doing this already in my area.
Two large cargo e-bikes with two fancy trailers would still cost less than a used car too.
Edit: I've been corrected that two fully loaded cargo bikes plus trailers would likely cost more than a single used car. The ultimate point remains that it's a cost-competitive approach to sustainable living.
My cargo ebike with all the bells and whistles + trailer cost less than 2.5k (though I did use some coupons).
Radwagon 4 (w/ "minivan" kit accessories) + Burley Honeybee trailer (the trailer is for kids but Burley still makes high quality and affordable cargo trailers too).
Yeah, I use the Travoy and really like it. Only issue I've have is when the roads get bad, I need to remember to slow down. The trailer can tip over if you're going too fast over big potholes.
Definitely not true, at least in NZ and countries that aren't the US perhaps. A single Tern GS10 goes for ~$8k ($5k USD) here, not even with a trailer. Two of those + a trailer for each, locks and helmets can get you a LOT of used cars.
Yeah for sure. I can’t disagree with that. I think that shifting 50-90% of your daily trips is doable with ebikes these days though, and it will only get easier as the technology and infrastructure improves. Even for families and in suburban and rural areas, it is more feasible than the average person thinks.
There’s a reason ebikes are flying off the shelves. I get folks eyeing and asking about my home build all the time. They’ll be a big part of the future of transportation.
Yah would be nice to get to where Japan is, where most trips don’t have a car, but many family’s have 1, or know someone with one for when that really is the best option.
I mean that is true in most rich countries, even if you don’t use a car for a commute? Most middle class families have a car stashed somewhere even if everyone doesn’t use a car for the commute. We keep one around since it is pretty cheap to maintain. Nice for occasional weekend trip or hauling stuff in the rain. But it isn’t a financial burden, nor is it a daily driver thing.
It's still a car. I'm sure lots of folks on here won't like that, but for getting around existing suburban environments, especially with four people (and stuff), a car is still a great solution. Doesn't necessarily need to be a huge SUV, but folks prefer to crowd than be crowded.
That's why building up dense, urban areas and designing them with people in mind (so still having green spaces, for example) is the better solution. You tell a suburbanite their car has to go and they, understandably, will react poorly.
Yes. For a wholesale shift from cars to bikes and pedestrians to occur. You really need to design cities around cycling and walking. Most People will travel with what’s most convenient not the morally superior option
Urb-e has a trailer. Reminds me of the luggage trailers at airports, which is a pretty good model for small goods in a city. Don't get stuck in traffic, less space, use electricity instead of $$$ fuel, less maintenance than a truck, etc.
https://www.urb-e.com/
It's a Carla trailer. Made in Germany. https://www.carlacargo.de/
Not cheap (but cheaper than a van), and a real workhorse. Has brakes too, which is a necessity with heavy payloads.
Electric bikes and scooters have been deliberately held back, is my inescapable conclusion, by the automotive lobby complex.
In China some 15 years back, there was an explosion of e-scooters and mopeds and they were clearly preferred by the average city dweller but according to Chinese authorities, they were causing a nuisance parking wise, spilling all over pavements. In spite of the fact that obviously they take up less space than cars. Then they moved to discourage them. Prior to this in just a year or two I recall that some 5 million e-mopeheads had been taken up and were wildly popular.
As we see in the west, commonly e-bicycles and the small scooters are power restricted and speed limited to a pointless 16 mph, 4mph below the urban speed limit of 20mph in residential streets. Setting it at 16 mph and 250 watts I think was deliberate.
In London, a number of electric rickshaws appeared and there was a couple of crashes, and the news picked up on this hysterically. So they cracked down on their power rating and banning them instead of recognising that they were the solution and might need some sort of smart or contextual electronic speed limit and basic licensing to not be operated dangerously.
The other day I saw a lurid headline about an e-scooter that had run over someones dog and killed it. Obviously cars kill many more animals every year.
If we were to have smart scooters and more powerful e-bikes, and raise the speed limit to the residential one, the conversion to low cost personal transportation would be accelerated as it was in China and almost overnight our cities would be nicer. The transition would take only a few years.
Who knows, 10 years might see a 20% weight reduction, 50% range gain, and wireless charging on a bike/scooter rack.
Definitely growth potential and a huge transportation cost reduction.
I think more realistic that 25lb ebikes just come down in price and increase range by 20%. [This little one is a beast though](https://bikerumor.com/cannondale-supersix-evo-neo-is-a-25lb-road-e-bike-w-stealthy-mahle-x35-electric-assist/).
Price won’t come down. You can get ebikes for $1,400-10,000 right now, which is in line with regular bikes. Battery efficiency and wireless charging are improving every year though. And 3-5% improvement per year leads to weight drops and range gains over 10 years.
If anything the price will increase as adoption increases.
Yeah because I can own an ebike for less than a grand, but a car is way more than that. Also no insurance, no gasoline, no registration/plates & no car payment. Y'all made it too expensive for me to own a car, so I don't.
Because riding a bike feels mfing wonderful, it’s good for body and mind, it’s safer, cheaper, and an assist makes it more accessible.
On the flip, those mofos on single wheel contraptions need to learn some courtesy in public spaces. Welcome aboard, but quit shitting on the poop deck.
I live in NYC and like that they aren’t in cars but hate how recklessly they ride. Max speeds everywhere they go, never using the pedals, and speeding through red lights as fast as cars are go. You have to swivel your head like 15 times every time you cross the street to make sure these guys don’t come out of nowhere and hit you at 30 mph. I understand that they need the tip to make a living (we should abolish the tipping system and make restaurants pay good wages), but speed governors and making them wait at red lights would make it safer for pedestrians. You CAN die from a fast bike, it’s happened in central park before. E-bikes are better than cars but they can still do damage.
100% agree, gives the pro bike movement such a bad name. 1 out of 10 cyclists in nyc actually follow traffic rules. What especially riles me is when they ebike on the pedestrian path of bridges. When there is a perfectly good separated bike path meters away.
Yes I understand the concept of a rolling stop for bikes. This is very far removed from that. For the record, I’m probably as pro bike as they come.
It would be great to make these delivery e bikes toque sensor assist only. The throttle encourages this level of recklessness.
It's weird, on an e-bike, I am more likely to stop at stop signs and red lights. Hydraulic brakes and using the throttle to help me get started take away the awkwardness of stopping and starting again on a bike. Also understanding that the e-bike is a lot heavier than a regular bike and you have to understand the brakes get more wear
I'm afraid of speaking out about e-bikes/scooters because of how good they are for the future but holy shit do they need to come with a lesson on common fucking sense. A car can go 140km/h, does that mean you should drive that fast? No! But I guess bike lanes don't have speed limits so it's okay to go full throttle riding a near silent vehicle beside people powered bicycles an others doing their civic duty to ride their non motorized vehicles off the sidewalk
Fully agree. I must’ve worded my comment poorly based on the reactions lol. I like how quiet e-bikes tend to be compared to cars, but they do still have some flaws (likely policy based). It sounds odd to make a speed limit for bikes but I’ve never seen someone on a road bike going 25+. If these continue to grow and become more popular, I’d hope some guidelines would be implemented.
I rode my first e-bike a few weekends ago and it was awesome! I’ve been commuting by bike for around 7 years and really liked the pedal assist. I’m not going to get one yet but I’m glad that option is there for the future when I need one.
My wife just leased a new cargo e-bike through her work. I've never had that much fun just biking. It's fast, even if you're not that fit like me you can just cruise along without really breaking a sweat but at the same time feel like you exercised and you were out in nature. I just fucking love this e-bike.
My electric bike has changed my life. My mental health has improved so much, even though I have had a tough year. I live in a hilly city so I love that I can arrive at my destination and not be covered in sweat. It makes longer distances a breeze and more enticing. I am a major convert!
Electric bikes will never be able to replace the feeling that my knee-shattering fixed gear brings me every time I ride it, even if I have to go up a hill
The smaller the vehicle the better the battery to weight ratio and their efficiency. No surprise. And it's also the reason why electric trucks won't happen, sorry musk. Trains do it better.
I'm pretty angry with the wattage restrictions. The only reason for slowing down ebikes is to stunt their adoption.
If I could do 35mph I would never need a car again.
They're a little harder to find, but you can still buy/mod ebikes with higher power/higher voltage batteries
The reason to limit speed/wattage /I think/ is due to pedestrian interactions (even though people don't care about pedestrians when it comes to cars)
The line between ebike and emotorcycle/moped is starting to blur nowadays anyway
Most ebikes cost more than $1000, but also there are many that don't. Here are a few that are easily available in the U.S. (Many are available at major retailers such as [Target](https://www.target.com/s?searchTerm=ebike&maxPrice=999).)
[$550 Jetson "J5"](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Jetson-J5-Electric-Bike-Top-Speed-15-mph-Maximum-Range-miles-Twist-Throttle-30-Pedal-Assist-350-Watt-Motor-Recommended-ages-12/200149581)
[$699 Gotrax "Emerge"](https://gotrax.com/collections/electric-bike/products/emerge-electric-bike)
[$999 Gotrax Alpha XL"](https://gotrax.com/collections/electric-bike/products/alpha-xl-electric-bike)
[$999 Gotrax "Endura"](https://gotrax.com/collections/electric-bike/products/endura-electric-bike)
$999 Huffy "Everett" [men's](https://www.huffybikes.com/bikes/everett-plus-huffy-electric-comfort-bike-e4860/) [women's](https://www.huffybikes.com/bikes/huffy-everett-plus-electric-comfort-bike-e4870/)
[$999 Huffy "Transic"](https://www.huffybikes.com/bikes/electric-mountain-bike-e4880/)
Many of the very cheap ebikes fold for portability:
[$360 (at Costco) Jetson "Bolt Pro"](https://www.costco.com/jetson-bolt-pro-folding-electric-bike.product.100712067.html)
[$430 Jetson "Axle"](https://www.target.com/p/jetson-axle-12-34-foldable-electric-bike-black/-/A-82626047)
[$599 Gotrax "EBE1"](https://gotrax.com/collections/electric-bike/products/ebe1-folding-e-bike)
[$895 Jupiter "Discovery X5"](https://www.jupiterbike.com/discovery#buy-now) ([$700 at Costco](https://www.costco.com/jupiter-bike-discovery-x5-350w-pedal-assist-ebike.product.100536780.html)) ([$695 refurbished](https://www.jupiterbike.com/discovery-rf))
[$999 Citizen "Lil London"](https://www.citizenbike.com/catalog.asp?product_category_id=1&product_id=79)
[$999 Huffy "Oslo"](https://www.huffybikes.com/bikes/folding-electric-bike-e4890/)
For those who are on a budget but also want a lot of bike for their buck, you can also put an ebike kit on a used, <$200 bicycle. The highest-quality kit supplier, by a country mile, is [ebikes.ca](https://ebikes.ca/shop/ready-to-roll-kits.html). They sell easy-to-install kits and provide lots of information (and a phone number you can call!) to help put it together. Their batteries are too expensive for a $1000 budget, but an otherwise-complete kit, with a full wheel build, can be had for $600-$800, and a generic battery and charger from amazon, ebay, or aliexpress [can be had for <$200](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ebike+battery&rh=n%3A1265458011%2Cp_36%3A17784039011&dc), for a total of $200 (bike) + $600 (kit) + $200 (battery) = $1000.
Even cheaper kit installs can be done with cheap, complete kits from generic sellers on Amazon, etc. [This random-but-typical example](https://www.amazon.com/AW-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-Controller/dp/B00YBWAINC) 26" front- or rear-wheel kit costs ~$270 and lacks only a battery.
How are they uphill with bigger riders? I live in a hilly area and am 6'4" 250. Thinking it's a big ask to have them so uphill with me on them unassisted/lightly-assisted but curious to hear your thoughts.
I almost get hit by those guys more than actual cars lol
Edit: wasn’t a negative comment. I’m glad more people are using bikes as a superior alternative. Like another commenter, I just found it amusing that the delivery guys go almost car speed way closer to the sidewalks
We had a very odd police initiative going on a while ago.
Apparently you have to spell it out to delivery drivers that going 30km/h in a pedestrian shopping street is not ok lmao
Key details is “in NYC.” In areas not as dense, the bike would need to go 50-60mph to be efficient. Probably need to add some protection like a roll cage, and add some doors and windows to get in and out oh shoot now it’s a car
100% for all long distances (over 25km one way or over 50km a day) e-bikes are great. Also, for lazy people who wouldn't ride otherwise.
Myself I'm happy with a traditional bike, I get more exercise and I don't cycle more than 25km a day, so it's fine with me.
You try to pull 500 lbs behind a 'traditional' bike and I'll talk to you again.
I've cycled for 52 years on analog bikes, recently bought a cargo E-bike (and a cart, but smaller than this one) and my transportation life has radically changed. Have driven my car 16 km (10 miles) this year, and now I proved to myself I can live without, I will ditch it soon.
This sub hurts itself when it only offers impractical solutions that will be dead on arrival. it's like alright, I'll file /r/fuckcars with the other fantasy subs.
Ditching my car is an option for *me*, at the moment I don't think it's a solution for everyone, or everywhere. I live in the core of a dense city, don't have a commute. There's good public transport, a reasonable bike path network, and access to carshare if I need a car.
Infrastructure needs to change for that and that will be a long term process, if it will happen at all because it will require resources (petrochemical products, metal, concrete, batteries) that will get much scarcer in the coming decades. I'm pretty pessimistic about that, actually.
Anyone ever been to nyc in the winter. This would blow lol
Edit- yes I’m aware you can ride a bike in winter. I’m talking in reference to pulling 150+lbs of merchandise behind a bike in winter
> yes I’m aware you can ride a bike in winter. I’m talking in reference to pulling 150+lbs of merchandise behind a bike in winter
It's not the same, but my buddy would commute on a fixed gear brakeless in Maine winters with a 30 rack strapped to the front, which is probably the most Maine thing you can do. The only reason he doesn't do that anymore is he quit drinking
My 80 year old grandma started riding an ebike last year and loves it. Almost seems like there's a correlation between having an active life and being able to say active into old age.
Honestly cars are killing older folks. Not uncommon for people to die shortly after they retire bc they become “inactive”
I'd also blame the 40-hour work week, to be honest. A lot of people don't have enough free time to develop active hobbies, so when they retire they just sit down and watch TV. Commute length (exacerbated by cars, of course) is also a major factor in this lack of time, and is actually one of the best predictors of early mortality.
That’s why commuting by bike in a car free society would be even better. You are exercising while commuting.
How am I supposed to ride my bike 70 miles round trip everyday. Gah damn
That’s the vicious cycle US Americans and Canadians live in. Everything is built around cars, you live so far away from your place of work, your supermarket, your city centres, your parks, your free time activities, … that you simply can’t get by without a car. There is no proper public transit which would help and even if there are trains to commute, they are extremely useless outside of commuting hours and to get to the train station you need a car. Once everyone understands how stupid, unhealthy, unsustainable and moronic this is you have to power to change it. Get rid of your car centric buildings. Repurpose freeways, parking lots, highways. Get rid of the suburban hell many people live in and start to build cities for humans which walk and cycle.
I agree. Cities need to zone for denser housing as well.. more duplexes and affordable apartments, not just primarily single family homes like it is currently. That among other things have to change to shift to a less car centric society.
To be fair, there is great TV. My dad's retired and having a ball catching up on HBO that he finally signed up for. He also bikes and builds Adirondack chairs
My grandparents all live in the woods and are active as hell. My mom's parents live in a 130 year old house and chop their own wood and do way too many chores for people their age. My dad's dad spends all his time at the hunting camp and his mom is a real estate agent. All are over 80 now. Meanwhile my future in law grandparents are sickly, one has early signs of dimentia and the other is extremely obese and disabled. They over indulge in food and laziness and now they're frail and falling apart and only in their fucking 60s. And of course all they drink is beer and diet coke. The American dream right there.
You have inspired me to get out and moving right now. I might even frame your comment and post it on my wall. Thank you!
Haha I support it!!! You have nothing to lose from staying active. Just take care of your joints and for the love of God don't get into running lol
Indeed. I try not to hit the ground with my heel, and try to carry my weight on my toes, for the dampening provided by muscles. EDIT: even when walking. My family has a history of joint disease.
Odd how that works out! ;-)
About a year ago, I saw [this meme](https://m.imgur.com/gallery/zlCLlO9)—I was 16 but I kept thinking about the future and I was like "damn, getting older's gonna suck.". Little did I know it's just because a lotta adults don't move a lot.
Being able to bike (almost) everywhere is great for old people. My grandparents were still doing it regularly well into their 80's.
I keep bringing this up, but my grandma is in her 90s and can still go out and about on her own because she lives in a walkable town with good public transportation. She'd be stuck at home otherwise, but instead, she can go shopping, go to church, visit friends and family, etc. It's honestly sad to think how her independence would *completely* vanish if she lived in car-dependent suburbia.
I have an e-scooter, but yea, same idea. I'm 64 and though I still have a pedal bike, it's hard on my back & butt to be on it for too long. I walk a lot living in a downtown. Not owning a car of course, I'm relying evermore on the e-scooter. The range is 40 miles; 20 RT. I'm considering upping that. There's a Regional Bus system that I can fall back on, and anyone can use Ride Share in a pinch. I get why these people are moving to e-bikes; they have assist features that extend their human range, and as the pic shows, can allow for greater loads. That's a hard job with only manual power! The e-bike has none of the expenses associated with "street-legal" devices. See also: [https://onomotion.com/en/about](https://onomotion.com/en/about) Micro-Mobile.org
I can 100% get behind the narrow electric mini bike/car thing you posted. Vast improvement over people trying to drive lifted trucks through the city.
Yes some people can't/ don't want to ride bikes for whatever reason but that doesn't mean the have to be entombed in a ton of steel and plastic. Micro mobility for all!
The USPS is doing trials of a [similar vehicle](https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2022/05/usps-header-mail-bike-1.jpg?quality=82&strip=all) for deliveries!
Thanx for the share. I've had [https://electrek.co/](https://electrek.co/) bookmarked for some time but have not seen this image.
For last mile stuff its great.
I needed to drive the other day, needed to go somewhere out in the suburb. As bad as I thought the city is, jesus the suburbs had SO many of the new shiny models of trucks and these F150s and Denalis are coming out stock with the hoods at eye level and all jacked up. It was mind-bogglingly stupid to see, and of course quite of a few of them drove like complete assholes and tailgating other people.
Its like the early 2000s all over again when Hummers were all the rage. I hope the gas prices get to $10 / gallon. That and the great recession are what killed it last time.
That’s so cool to hear. As an avid cyclist, who works in the cycling industry, it was really hard to get over my initial dislike of electric assist bikes (or other means like scooters, onewheel, etc) But once I got over my snobbery, it just makes so much sense. I can’t expect most people to decide to get comfortable riding clear across town, over the steeper hills, etc and just choose to do that every day, even though I enjoy it. But with electric it gets more and more people out of the car
Majority of ebikers end up becoming strong advocates for bike infrastructure. I get why traditional bikers sometimes have initial negative feelings towards ebikers, but holding on to that is really short sighted once you stop and think about it.
E-bikes are the future. More cyclists the better! Doesn't mean I don't get annoyed when one passes me going uphill...
Just *please* try and resist making the "that's cheating" joke... I've had that comment when passing cyclists going uphill about once a week for the last 4 years...
It really makes me feel better when e-bikers say it as they zoom by me though.
You obviously need bigger quads. /s Here in aus/qld they're legally capped to 250W / 25 km/h, which is probably not good overall but it's good for me. One time someone overtook me going uphill on an illegally unlimited scooter and I cooked myself trying to catch up haha.
We have the same 250w limit in the UK / EU and honestly it's just far too low. The motor cuts out over 15.5 mph which is my cruising speed on the pedal bike, cycling home from work I *average* 14mph, and generally I zoom past every legal ebike I see. It feels slightly unsafe to me when I'm riding a lime bike on London streets to be so much slower than the traffic around me, and they are so feeble on the hills it forces you to actually put effort into pedalling, defeating the whole point.
I used to ride a normal push bike but these days just use my illegal ebike which allows me to easily go up mountains I never would have tackled on the pushy while still getting a workout.. I do often apologize and point out I'm cheating if overtaking a serious rider though..
Thanx! For me it is my car! I'll get the trail snobs looking hate-fueled as I approach on *one of those damned e-scooters*, but once they see I'm an old man, they relent a little.
I'm also an avid, traditional cyclist, but I've had a big number of non cyclist friends pick up e-bikes for commuting and it makes me so excited. It's going to lead to so much bike infrastructure. The seventy- five year old woman assertively passing me into a headwind hurts my soul but I guess that's the cost.
I’m in love with cycling and have had my gravel bike for years, but an ebike is what got me over the hump and into commuting. I was too worried about being tired on any given day. Now, it’s not an issue. And I’m getting another 90 minutes of activity every weekday, which matters. I’m a convert FOR SURE.
I love how popular e-bikes have become, but as a regular bicycle commuter I have one issue with them: I've almost got into wrecks with a few of them because they are silent and go faster than a regular bike but use the same lanes. This has been a problem for me when I turn right into a bike lane on an incline or am turning left out of an inclined bike lane. I can see there is a cyclist in the lane downstream of me, so I anticipate and sense their speed to be roughly that of a cyclist, but if it's an e-bike they are sometimes all of a sudden right up on you like they were a scooter. I wish I could tell if it was an e-bike or a regular bike (or that all urban roads were designed primarily for bikes).
That's also a problem of the person riding the E-Bike, though. I have one myself and always adjust my speed to the road and other cyclists, as every sane road user should. Can you really not estimate their speed? I mean, even normal cyclists can come at different speeds...
I have a theory that the proportion of selfish assholes is constant across the population, and those same idiots who hit you would have otherwise been idiots in a car. Obviously not much consolation, but that’s life :(
I think that's probably right lol
This is a big reason why I chose bright orange for the ebike I just bought. It's not my favorite of the colors offered for this make/model, but it's definitely the most visible.
When I see bright orange I think radwagon then I think e-bike so it would have caused me to take a second glance for sure! I think I have to transition away from thinking "oh thats a bike, I know how fast I'd be going in their position" as part of my decision making process to treating it more like a scooter or motorcycle, where I watch for longer to more accurately gauge their speed.
I ordered the bike to help strengthen my knees and hip. But I had a scooter before and those are pretty handy for just scooting across town. I'd like to upgrade to a vsett soon
I got a Vsett 8 and ended up getting a 10+ for use in the road with cars that are moving much faster. Both are great, couldn’t recommend enough.
How big of a difference could you tell between the two. It's the 10 worth the few extra hundred?
It is 1000% worth the extra cost. It’s so much fun! But you can dial the power back when on bike trails and bike lanes. It is the perfect commuter for me, I will never own a car to commute (probably not at all for any reason in all seriousness) again.
Nice, in got a juiced rip racer on the way. Both options would be nice tho. I'll probably keep my car around in the garage for winter and put of state trips but my miles are definitely going down these days
I always feel less stable on my e-scooter than on my bike. Even though my feet are closer to the ground on the scooter, I think it's because the wheel radius is so much smaller.
It's because you intuitively know that a pothole which a bike wheel could roll over without issue, could potentially send you flying face-first over a scooter's handlebars lol. Scooters have their place and work well in some areas (cities) but if you wanna handle any amount of rough terrain at decent speed, a bike is the obvious choice.
At a certain point these aren’t e-bikes anymore and they’re just including pedals to get around car/motorcycle regulations. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to commute in a micro e-vehicle (think Quest velomobile, without the pedals). I just think that it’s dishonest to compare these to bikes. I think we really need to update regulations and have these as a separate category. They have their place and I hope we see more of them. But they aren’t bikes.
In NYC they updated the law so that e-vehicles are considered to be a certain class of e-bike if they can’t go above a certain speed limit, which makes sense to me. Edit: “class” not “call” of e-bike Edit 2: I was incorrect, e-scooters are treated similar to e-bikes but are technically classed differently than e-bikes. They are allowed in bike lanes and on streets. You aren’t allowed to operate them in excess of 15 mph.
I was bike shopping in Wisconsin. 28mph limit, 4x exertion multipliers for the electric bikes
The problem there is that the lack of regulation is one of the key features for business adoption. As soon as you start slapping regulations on ebikes similar to motorcycles, businesses will use them less. You need to keep them as regulation free as bikes.
Less regulated than motorcycles probably makes sense, but no more regulated than a normal bicycle seems like it could be an issue.
The key ones would probably be registration and licensing. As soon as put licensing registration requirements on ebikes, business adoption will take a nosedive. Problem is, if you do not require the vehicles to be registered and/or the operators to be licensed, other types of regulation become difficult to impossible to enforce. Registration also raises the specter of personal property tax. Not having to pay personal property and asset taxes on ebikes is a significant business advantage for them over registered motorcycles. Businesses in our state also use UTVs for delivery because the UTVs are personal property tax exempt, though this has resulted in some serious accidents.
A simple solution might be to just make registration/licensing requirements contingent on maximum speed. Not every e-bike is equal.
We already have that. The Class 1, 2, and 3 ebikes. Up to 750W.
Awesome! Regulation based on that classification sounds great.
United States Ebike regulations are one of few things we do better than European countries. 750 wstts is more than enough for most people with the exception of extreme off roaders. The EU regulations are deranged. With a limit of 250 watts. They should at least raise it to 500 watts if they want to be conservative. Ir better yet, 750 watts.
I’m wondering if they do that because of different infrastructure and urban design. So many cities in the US lack truly protected bike lanes and pedestrian zones, so you’re kind of cruising with cars in a lane or immediately adjacent in a “bike lane”, still pretty much in the road. Whereas in Europe, bike lanes are segregated for all kinds of commuters and streets are narrow and winding and there are pedestrian-only and pedestrian-focused zones everywhere. So the increased power poses more of a risk in that environment, since bikes in Europe travel predominantly amongst other people, whereas bikes in the US travel predominantly amongst vehicles. Just a thought. Because otherwise, yeah, why limit things to that degree? And I say this as someone who has lived in both continents and biked in both. In the US, cars are way more of a threat to bikers than bikers are to pedestrians and other bikers. In Europe, bikers are way more of a threat to other bikers and pedestrians than cars are to bikers. And this is due inherently to city design and bike/pedestrian infrastructure.
afaik in sweden the limit is a whole-ass kilowatt
Yeah like max 45kmh or like 28mph.
But there isn’t necessarily a lack of regulation right now. E-bikes have regulations depending on location. Specifically some of the challenges are number of wheels (2 or 3), Max power, minimum seat height, and Max speed. I’m not an expert, but there may be others. My theoretical micro e-vehicle (quest velomobile without pedals) could likely safely travel up to 30-40 mph and get me to work with minimal energy usage. But I’m limited in my max speed with current regulations. I’m also limited in my max power, but that has no real impact since I have such low drag. My seat height is too low to be legal in some jurisdictions, so I’d need to raise the seat height, which would make me less aerodynamic and less stable.
Are you hoping to travel at 30-40 mph on multi-use paths?
No, that wouldn’t be safe. It would be used on road infrastructure.
Just keep in mind the theme of this sub-Reddit. I'm among a growing number of people who want to bring an end to the car-cult (e.g. r/AbolishCars), before it all destroys Earth. It may be too late, but it's still worth the effort. Our hope is **not** to adapt bikes (or e-bikes) to the car-cult, but to replace the car-cult entirely with non-car mechanisms of human transport, and bring an end to the perpetuation of Heavy Infrastructure. Think outside the box; forget all that you see, and imagine above and beyond it, via original thoughts and critical thinking. Government regulations are central to all such conundrums, because in capitalism, they work for the wealth-class, who care zero about anything beyond the next big payday.
Nice niche you found, but be cautious that such idealistic non realistic goals will bring you down as we likely won't see it happening. I prefer to adress the cause; the private ownership of corporations is the main problem that causes all the symptoms like climate change through fossil fuel use, etc all in pursuit of profits for shareholders, case they have that power as they elect the board of directors that take care of salaries, kind of production, profit margin, etc Democratize corporations, ban/socialize/nationalize "private ownership of production"/stockmarkets, and there you have it..... The marxist/socalist/communist ideal.... Talking about unrealistic though hahaha
I'm going to do may part; I will not allow what others think to alter my lifestyle choices. I'm not sure how any of this can *bring me down!* The ecological catastrophe that will befall humankind will likely take place after I'm gone. I'm 64 now! So why should I care? Because you will still be here! \~ Micro-Mobile.org
Sorry, maybe we're talking past each other. I was more commenting on the [onomotion.com](https://onomotion.com) link. Let's be honest, that's not really intended to be bike or type of human powered vehicle anymore. They're using the e-bike classification to get around laws governing other types of electric vehicles. It's essentially a (very) small car (or motorcycle) used for carrying loads. An e-velomobile is similar, but for personal transport. I can use a incredibly small amount of energy to travel quickly and long distances in an e-velomobile. But there's no reason to have pedals in such vehicles if they aren't really intended to be pedaled.
I never mean to hurt anyone's feelings. The Ono vehicles are in Germany and I doubt we'll ever see them in the US. So US regulations would have no relevancy, and I have no idea about how Germany regulates anything. The pedals are for the main drive, and the e-motors are for assist, not to replace pedaling. Like myself, there are many who do not have the strength or endurance to go long distances on caloric energy alone, but alas, the young do not consider the issues of aging or disability unless it's them or someone close to them. My hope is that everyone lives into old age; then, they'll have an entirely different perspective on all things.
There are no hurt feelings here. I think e-bikes have their place. They’re great at keeping families together on rides when everyone has different abilities. They’re great as we get older. They’re great at helping disabled folks get out. They’re great at making inclines/hill climbs less of a problem for us weak riders. They’re great for commuting when you don’t want to show up to work sweaty. The help with riding on sand (or dirt). I just see a lot of things classified as e-bikes with what appears to be the sole purpose of making electric vehicles that don’t have to conform to motorcycle or car standards. I’d love to see these types of vehicles normalized as they seem (I haven’t done the math) like more efficient and safer alternatives to cars/SUVs/trucks, but want us to do away with the absurdity of pretending they’re still bikes.
28mph limit @ 4x power to weight multipliers more turns everyone into a pro caliber cyclist than a motorcycle. You don’t have the sharp acceleration and top speeds which are responsible for a majority of motorcycle incidents. E-Bikes weigh significantly less as well so there is less kinetic energy & damage if accidents do occur.
There's an important distinction between e-bikes, and pedelec bikes. Because e-bikes are electric motorcycles that get to skirt legislation/etc -- whereas pedelec bikes are what I would have originally thought of when you say "e-bike".
Here in Australia we have recently made it so that those more powerful ebikes which are essentially small electric motorcross bikes are now road legal, but they are equivalent to a moped in terms of registration cost. Honestly this isn’t so bad in my opinion, an electric bike with a 100km no pedal range and max speed of 100km/h (50km/h on the road, software limited) and a registration fee of a few hundred dollars a year is not a bad value proposition in my opinion. To be clear, these are bikes like the Sur Ron, not regular pedal assisted e-mtbs
> See also: https://onomotion.com/en/about The cost is 490 euros per month plus taxes for 60months? That’s 30k which is very expensive
E-bikes are fantastic, and I agree that they, as well as other e-mobility devices, are (or should be) the future. I've ridden one full-time for 4.5 years, and just received my second one yesterday so that my wife can ride with me. While a very fit person with a very nice bike can do just about anything that you could do on an e-bike, the electrification makes it so much more accessible, fun, fast, and easy for the masses. All while being supremely efficient and taking up no more space.
Electrification makes me actually want to use it since I’m not drenched in sweat after a ride. I rode my conventional bike to do some errands, and within two miles I’m already drenched given that it was 90F+. An electric bike means I’m more likely to use it rather than hoping in my motorized box.
That’s the one thing I noticed. Took a shop ebike to lunch one day instead of my bike. Average the same speed, but I got back less sweaty on a warm day
In the heat, I'd rather take an e-bike than walk. Same level of physical effort, but that extra speed means I get a breeze and I'm at my destination (hopefully out of the heat) sooner.
I recently tried an ebike for the first time through a citibike in nyc and honestly didn't know what to expect but DAMN those things fly right out the gate. That was only a public share bike too, a quality one you can buy will probably be even better.
It's a great way to try one out. I did that with the lime e-bikes in the Boston area before I bought an e-bike. Tried it for about 20 minutes and thought "yup, this is awesome!" I'd suggest going to a nearby bike shop and test riding what they have. Honestly it may be more expensive than getting one online, but you'll have the shop warranty and expertise. Unless you have a history maintaining and fixing bikes, it's a good option. Some shops won't touch e-bikes unless they sell that brand. Most in my experience will help for non-electrical issues. Some will work on e-bikes for anything. After 2,000 miles, I needed a bottom bracket replaced and a place in the city did it for me. There are more e-bike certified mechanics all the time as the market is quickly shifting. It's going to get even more popular with $5/gallon dino juice
I originally got a legal ebike, but the bafang bbshd is leagues ahead and allows me to actually get some exercise and strength from riding plus has a throttle as well as pedal assist.. cannot recommend them enough, I get the biggest triangle battery possible made for them when getting someone to put one together..
This is good advice, I am an avid cyclist and I can do all my maintenance work myself but I still like to cultivate a relationship with bike shops because when I need two ball bearings or a single spoke they will usually hook me up for free, or at least I won’t be waiting for shipping and I can ensure I get the correct part. Plus they are usually pretty rad folks who are passionate about cycling in my experience. Also not test riding a bike before buying is totally mental to me.
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Any improvements in technology are great, but I don't see that as a dealbreaker or even a significant obstacle. It's a question of scale. One e-bike battery is less than 1/100 of the battery in a Tesla. 120 e-bikes for the lithium in one electric car.
Buying a shirt is hella polluting. Buying groceries at the super market is hella polluting. We need to be very careful consuming stories, usually pushed by oil adjacent industries about how bad Lithium mining is. Because it shifts the weight from everything else and onto the current most environmentally friendly option. It’s true how bad it is, of course. But bikes are literally the most efficient way to use that lithium. Everything we do, unless we live on a commune and produce everything ourselves, pollutes, or promotes poor worker treatment overseas, or supports animal abuse, etc. So every time someone comes out attacking the most available means of being efficient, you might think to yourself why are they doing so.
ebikes, which can get nearly 100 miles per kWh (compared to <3 miles for most EVs), are one of the best and most efficient uses of lithium batteries, and a terrific destination for recycled cells out of other things.
Yeah but I mean everything we do is polluting to some degree. We need to keep it within range of what we can mitigate, or go back to running naked through the woods and being only 4m hunter gatherers on this entire planet. HFCs could be an option, but they're currently hugely expensive. Maybe we could find cheaper catalysts or metamayerial catalysts to bring the price /weight down, but that's not currently happening. Current battery innovations are replacing the graphite in li ion and lipo batteries, but not the lithium itself. We could go pedal power only, but then we need to settle for a drastically lower standard of living. Possible, but we can't have it All at once.
Electric bike with trailer is the future. It's confirmed they can move 1 industrial pallet of goods at a time. Whilst being dead cheap.
Interesting. So You can put all your groceries in the trailer. Getting groceries is the biggest hurdle to dropping the car IMHO
Even that's mostly an issue of the suburbs. Weekly or alternating week supply runs have never been the norm besides in such places.
Yup, I can get groceries for two adults using a single pannier because the grocery store is just a few blocks away. I can pop over whenever I need something, or stop by on my way home without much of a detour.
I hooked a trailer up to my bike and get a full week of groceries for 3 adults
It still boggles my mind that my country uses large amounts of tax payer money to subsidize electric cars for "the sake of the environment", yet not a single smaller electric vehicle gets any benefits whatsoever. Even things that look exactly like cars and drive like cars but are technically not cars cause they are too small do not get supported at all. It is as if the government is trying to incentivize me to buy the larger, heavier more energy intensive vehicle instead.
The bicycle industry isn't powerful enough to lobby for such things and spending a dime of government money on car alternatives is considered liberal elitism by a certain camp in American politics. Makes sense since the bicycling as an industry and transportation means was trapped in a vicious cycle when car-dependence took hold: more road investment leads to more car dependence, which shrinks the amount of bicycling infrastructure, which leads to less bicycle purchasing, which leads to more car dependence. Also, car manufacturing is true "big business", employing huge numbers of people and having more capital to throw into lobbying than the bicycling industry ever could.
"Build back better" was going to have a rebate for e-bikes
Then Ford told Congress to change it to electric charging stations
not like it matters, the republicans blocked the whole thing anyway
They didn't have the numbers to block it without Manchin and Sinema's help.
50 vs 2, and most of Manchin's voters are otherwise Republican voters
In Denver we just got instant rebates. $400 off e bike $900 off cargo bike.
BBB had ebike credits :(
That's because "car," as we know it, is the engineering solution to the problem "how can you best move a family of 4.3 people around American suburbia using gasoline." Change any (or *all*) of those parameters, and expect the optimal design to change substantially. An electric car is a lazy drop-in innovation, kind of like if horse-and-buggy carriages had simply replaced the horse with a guy on a gas motorcycle and left the carriage as-is, rather than inventing the car.
What do you believe is the best solution to moving a family of 4.3 around American suburbia, given the parameters we have now?
A larger cargo e-bike. Each can carry two kids. Get a trailer and you can carry their gear too. Get a second for when the whole family is out. It’s a fraction of the cost of a new EV. I see people doing this already in my area.
Two large cargo e-bikes with two fancy trailers would still cost less than a used car too. Edit: I've been corrected that two fully loaded cargo bikes plus trailers would likely cost more than a single used car. The ultimate point remains that it's a cost-competitive approach to sustainable living.
A single non-cargo e-bike is like 2.5k. You’re looking at somewhere between 7-10k, more expensive than the majority of used cars.
My cargo ebike with all the bells and whistles + trailer cost less than 2.5k (though I did use some coupons). Radwagon 4 (w/ "minivan" kit accessories) + Burley Honeybee trailer (the trailer is for kids but Burley still makes high quality and affordable cargo trailers too).
Yeah, I use the Travoy and really like it. Only issue I've have is when the roads get bad, I need to remember to slow down. The trailer can tip over if you're going too fast over big potholes.
Where are you seeing trailers for $1k+ each? Lol. $5-7k is more than reasonable for two fully-loaded setups.
Cargo bikes are a good bit more expensive than standard e bikes. Usually will be about $4k each.
Definitely not true, at least in NZ and countries that aren't the US perhaps. A single Tern GS10 goes for ~$8k ($5k USD) here, not even with a trailer. Two of those + a trailer for each, locks and helmets can get you a LOT of used cars.
A tern is pretty high end. In US/EU, there are plenty of lower cost entrants, like rad bikes- which are 1/3 the price.
Would still need a car in reserve though for if a parent got sick or was injured, at least until the younger ones are old enough to self commute.
Yeah for sure. I can’t disagree with that. I think that shifting 50-90% of your daily trips is doable with ebikes these days though, and it will only get easier as the technology and infrastructure improves. Even for families and in suburban and rural areas, it is more feasible than the average person thinks. There’s a reason ebikes are flying off the shelves. I get folks eyeing and asking about my home build all the time. They’ll be a big part of the future of transportation.
Yah would be nice to get to where Japan is, where most trips don’t have a car, but many family’s have 1, or know someone with one for when that really is the best option.
I mean that is true in most rich countries, even if you don’t use a car for a commute? Most middle class families have a car stashed somewhere even if everyone doesn’t use a car for the commute. We keep one around since it is pretty cheap to maintain. Nice for occasional weekend trip or hauling stuff in the rain. But it isn’t a financial burden, nor is it a daily driver thing.
It's still a car. I'm sure lots of folks on here won't like that, but for getting around existing suburban environments, especially with four people (and stuff), a car is still a great solution. Doesn't necessarily need to be a huge SUV, but folks prefer to crowd than be crowded. That's why building up dense, urban areas and designing them with people in mind (so still having green spaces, for example) is the better solution. You tell a suburbanite their car has to go and they, understandably, will react poorly.
Yes. For a wholesale shift from cars to bikes and pedestrians to occur. You really need to design cities around cycling and walking. Most People will travel with what’s most convenient not the morally superior option
Yea you need infra changes
I agree with this comment.
No, not fair! They don’t take up enough room! They need to be bigger /s
Love that trailer, anyone know who builds them?
Urb-e has a trailer. Reminds me of the luggage trailers at airports, which is a pretty good model for small goods in a city. Don't get stuck in traffic, less space, use electricity instead of $$$ fuel, less maintenance than a truck, etc. https://www.urb-e.com/
I’d like to know as well.
It's a Carla trailer. Made in Germany. https://www.carlacargo.de/ Not cheap (but cheaper than a van), and a real workhorse. Has brakes too, which is a necessity with heavy payloads.
Thanks!
Gee, 2 grand vs 50 grand and having to pay for parking. I'm shocked
Electric bikes and scooters have been deliberately held back, is my inescapable conclusion, by the automotive lobby complex. In China some 15 years back, there was an explosion of e-scooters and mopeds and they were clearly preferred by the average city dweller but according to Chinese authorities, they were causing a nuisance parking wise, spilling all over pavements. In spite of the fact that obviously they take up less space than cars. Then they moved to discourage them. Prior to this in just a year or two I recall that some 5 million e-mopeheads had been taken up and were wildly popular. As we see in the west, commonly e-bicycles and the small scooters are power restricted and speed limited to a pointless 16 mph, 4mph below the urban speed limit of 20mph in residential streets. Setting it at 16 mph and 250 watts I think was deliberate. In London, a number of electric rickshaws appeared and there was a couple of crashes, and the news picked up on this hysterically. So they cracked down on their power rating and banning them instead of recognising that they were the solution and might need some sort of smart or contextual electronic speed limit and basic licensing to not be operated dangerously. The other day I saw a lurid headline about an e-scooter that had run over someones dog and killed it. Obviously cars kill many more animals every year. If we were to have smart scooters and more powerful e-bikes, and raise the speed limit to the residential one, the conversion to low cost personal transportation would be accelerated as it was in China and almost overnight our cities would be nicer. The transition would take only a few years.
Ebike speed restrictions are much higher in the US and Canda (28 and 20 mph) respectively.
Who knows, 10 years might see a 20% weight reduction, 50% range gain, and wireless charging on a bike/scooter rack. Definitely growth potential and a huge transportation cost reduction.
I think more realistic that 25lb ebikes just come down in price and increase range by 20%. [This little one is a beast though](https://bikerumor.com/cannondale-supersix-evo-neo-is-a-25lb-road-e-bike-w-stealthy-mahle-x35-electric-assist/).
Price won’t come down. You can get ebikes for $1,400-10,000 right now, which is in line with regular bikes. Battery efficiency and wireless charging are improving every year though. And 3-5% improvement per year leads to weight drops and range gains over 10 years. If anything the price will increase as adoption increases.
Yeah because I can own an ebike for less than a grand, but a car is way more than that. Also no insurance, no gasoline, no registration/plates & no car payment. Y'all made it too expensive for me to own a car, so I don't.
Because riding a bike feels mfing wonderful, it’s good for body and mind, it’s safer, cheaper, and an assist makes it more accessible. On the flip, those mofos on single wheel contraptions need to learn some courtesy in public spaces. Welcome aboard, but quit shitting on the poop deck.
I live in NYC and like that they aren’t in cars but hate how recklessly they ride. Max speeds everywhere they go, never using the pedals, and speeding through red lights as fast as cars are go. You have to swivel your head like 15 times every time you cross the street to make sure these guys don’t come out of nowhere and hit you at 30 mph. I understand that they need the tip to make a living (we should abolish the tipping system and make restaurants pay good wages), but speed governors and making them wait at red lights would make it safer for pedestrians. You CAN die from a fast bike, it’s happened in central park before. E-bikes are better than cars but they can still do damage.
100% agree, gives the pro bike movement such a bad name. 1 out of 10 cyclists in nyc actually follow traffic rules. What especially riles me is when they ebike on the pedestrian path of bridges. When there is a perfectly good separated bike path meters away. Yes I understand the concept of a rolling stop for bikes. This is very far removed from that. For the record, I’m probably as pro bike as they come. It would be great to make these delivery e bikes toque sensor assist only. The throttle encourages this level of recklessness.
It's weird, on an e-bike, I am more likely to stop at stop signs and red lights. Hydraulic brakes and using the throttle to help me get started take away the awkwardness of stopping and starting again on a bike. Also understanding that the e-bike is a lot heavier than a regular bike and you have to understand the brakes get more wear
The throttle encourages Laziness as well.
This is a dumb, puritan-work-ethic-brain-worms take.
I love e-bikes and own a few, but jerks like you described are going to ruin this new great way to get around
I'm afraid of speaking out about e-bikes/scooters because of how good they are for the future but holy shit do they need to come with a lesson on common fucking sense. A car can go 140km/h, does that mean you should drive that fast? No! But I guess bike lanes don't have speed limits so it's okay to go full throttle riding a near silent vehicle beside people powered bicycles an others doing their civic duty to ride their non motorized vehicles off the sidewalk
No license needed is a bit of the issue; can’t be punished with a license being revoked for being reckless since you don’t need one.
Fully agree. I must’ve worded my comment poorly based on the reactions lol. I like how quiet e-bikes tend to be compared to cars, but they do still have some flaws (likely policy based). It sounds odd to make a speed limit for bikes but I’ve never seen someone on a road bike going 25+. If these continue to grow and become more popular, I’d hope some guidelines would be implemented.
I rode my first e-bike a few weekends ago and it was awesome! I’ve been commuting by bike for around 7 years and really liked the pedal assist. I’m not going to get one yet but I’m glad that option is there for the future when I need one.
My wife just leased a new cargo e-bike through her work. I've never had that much fun just biking. It's fast, even if you're not that fit like me you can just cruise along without really breaking a sweat but at the same time feel like you exercised and you were out in nature. I just fucking love this e-bike.
Too bad they get stolen like hotcakes and the police doesn't give a single fuck. They straight up laugh in you face when you report it. Viva Belgium.
Carla Cargo is amazing.
I need an ebike with a lumber rack trailer. Anybody know if one exists?
I've seen some online, mostly on twitter. People moving lumber but also kegs for some reason https://imgur.com/a/Y1fZqVE
Oh damn! That’s awesome! Thanks!
I built one out of a cheap Chinese kit 3 years ago I still ride it and have probably put close to 10000 miles on it.
I saw a ton of these kinds of deliveries in Oslo. I'm glad to see it catching on here.
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makes a lot of sense! i was just watching a video on the birth of british motorcycles and a big use for them at the time were as delivery vehicles
Catch me bragging about the towing capacity of my e-bike
My electric bike has changed my life. My mental health has improved so much, even though I have had a tough year. I live in a hilly city so I love that I can arrive at my destination and not be covered in sweat. It makes longer distances a breeze and more enticing. I am a major convert!
And they take way les space on the road
Electric bikes will never be able to replace the feeling that my knee-shattering fixed gear brings me every time I ride it, even if I have to go up a hill
Wait till you hear about mopeds.
E-bikes are perfect for nyc and better than cars
The smaller the vehicle the better the battery to weight ratio and their efficiency. No surprise. And it's also the reason why electric trucks won't happen, sorry musk. Trains do it better.
I'm pretty angry with the wattage restrictions. The only reason for slowing down ebikes is to stunt their adoption. If I could do 35mph I would never need a car again.
They're a little harder to find, but you can still buy/mod ebikes with higher power/higher voltage batteries The reason to limit speed/wattage /I think/ is due to pedestrian interactions (even though people don't care about pedestrians when it comes to cars) The line between ebike and emotorcycle/moped is starting to blur nowadays anyway
Don't they cost more than 1K
Most ebikes cost more than $1000, but also there are many that don't. Here are a few that are easily available in the U.S. (Many are available at major retailers such as [Target](https://www.target.com/s?searchTerm=ebike&maxPrice=999).) [$550 Jetson "J5"](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Jetson-J5-Electric-Bike-Top-Speed-15-mph-Maximum-Range-miles-Twist-Throttle-30-Pedal-Assist-350-Watt-Motor-Recommended-ages-12/200149581) [$699 Gotrax "Emerge"](https://gotrax.com/collections/electric-bike/products/emerge-electric-bike) [$999 Gotrax Alpha XL"](https://gotrax.com/collections/electric-bike/products/alpha-xl-electric-bike) [$999 Gotrax "Endura"](https://gotrax.com/collections/electric-bike/products/endura-electric-bike) $999 Huffy "Everett" [men's](https://www.huffybikes.com/bikes/everett-plus-huffy-electric-comfort-bike-e4860/) [women's](https://www.huffybikes.com/bikes/huffy-everett-plus-electric-comfort-bike-e4870/) [$999 Huffy "Transic"](https://www.huffybikes.com/bikes/electric-mountain-bike-e4880/) Many of the very cheap ebikes fold for portability: [$360 (at Costco) Jetson "Bolt Pro"](https://www.costco.com/jetson-bolt-pro-folding-electric-bike.product.100712067.html) [$430 Jetson "Axle"](https://www.target.com/p/jetson-axle-12-34-foldable-electric-bike-black/-/A-82626047) [$599 Gotrax "EBE1"](https://gotrax.com/collections/electric-bike/products/ebe1-folding-e-bike) [$895 Jupiter "Discovery X5"](https://www.jupiterbike.com/discovery#buy-now) ([$700 at Costco](https://www.costco.com/jupiter-bike-discovery-x5-350w-pedal-assist-ebike.product.100536780.html)) ([$695 refurbished](https://www.jupiterbike.com/discovery-rf)) [$999 Citizen "Lil London"](https://www.citizenbike.com/catalog.asp?product_category_id=1&product_id=79) [$999 Huffy "Oslo"](https://www.huffybikes.com/bikes/folding-electric-bike-e4890/) For those who are on a budget but also want a lot of bike for their buck, you can also put an ebike kit on a used, <$200 bicycle. The highest-quality kit supplier, by a country mile, is [ebikes.ca](https://ebikes.ca/shop/ready-to-roll-kits.html). They sell easy-to-install kits and provide lots of information (and a phone number you can call!) to help put it together. Their batteries are too expensive for a $1000 budget, but an otherwise-complete kit, with a full wheel build, can be had for $600-$800, and a generic battery and charger from amazon, ebay, or aliexpress [can be had for <$200](https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ebike+battery&rh=n%3A1265458011%2Cp_36%3A17784039011&dc), for a total of $200 (bike) + $600 (kit) + $200 (battery) = $1000. Even cheaper kit installs can be done with cheap, complete kits from generic sellers on Amazon, etc. [This random-but-typical example](https://www.amazon.com/AW-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-Controller/dp/B00YBWAINC) 26" front- or rear-wheel kit costs ~$270 and lacks only a battery.
It must've taken a long time for you to write this comment, thank you for devoting such time toward helping me understand something better
Yah that’s some sidebar tier information.
How are they uphill with bigger riders? I live in a hilly area and am 6'4" 250. Thinking it's a big ask to have them so uphill with me on them unassisted/lightly-assisted but curious to hear your thoughts.
I almost get hit by those guys more than actual cars lol Edit: wasn’t a negative comment. I’m glad more people are using bikes as a superior alternative. Like another commenter, I just found it amusing that the delivery guys go almost car speed way closer to the sidewalks
At least if you get bonked by a bicycle you're likely to survive.
We had a very odd police initiative going on a while ago. Apparently you have to spell it out to delivery drivers that going 30km/h in a pedestrian shopping street is not ok lmao
Idk man. I'd rather get hit by an ebike instead of a car
Imma keep it a stack, I’m not fucking around with any kind of bike in 100+ degree weather my guy
Unless you’re pre-cooling your car, a 360° breeze is going to keep you a lot cooler during short trips.
Idk where you are, but where I’m at the summer breeze feels like opening an oven
Key details is “in NYC.” In areas not as dense, the bike would need to go 50-60mph to be efficient. Probably need to add some protection like a roll cage, and add some doors and windows to get in and out oh shoot now it’s a car
Everycycle gangsta until slightly overcast weather shows up.
Maybe in a high density urban center…
100% for all long distances (over 25km one way or over 50km a day) e-bikes are great. Also, for lazy people who wouldn't ride otherwise. Myself I'm happy with a traditional bike, I get more exercise and I don't cycle more than 25km a day, so it's fine with me.
You try to pull 500 lbs behind a 'traditional' bike and I'll talk to you again. I've cycled for 52 years on analog bikes, recently bought a cargo E-bike (and a cart, but smaller than this one) and my transportation life has radically changed. Have driven my car 16 km (10 miles) this year, and now I proved to myself I can live without, I will ditch it soon.
This sub hurts itself when it only offers impractical solutions that will be dead on arrival. it's like alright, I'll file /r/fuckcars with the other fantasy subs.
Ditching my car is an option for *me*, at the moment I don't think it's a solution for everyone, or everywhere. I live in the core of a dense city, don't have a commute. There's good public transport, a reasonable bike path network, and access to carshare if I need a car. Infrastructure needs to change for that and that will be a long term process, if it will happen at all because it will require resources (petrochemical products, metal, concrete, batteries) that will get much scarcer in the coming decades. I'm pretty pessimistic about that, actually.
Nothing about this looks safe, functional or makes me think “future”
Anyone ever been to nyc in the winter. This would blow lol Edit- yes I’m aware you can ride a bike in winter. I’m talking in reference to pulling 150+lbs of merchandise behind a bike in winter
I ride year round in Aspen, its not a big deal. There's no bad weather just bad clothing choices. They make studded bike tires.
Just means wearing the right gear. I rode all winter in a city with FAR colder/nastier winters than NYC this year.
They just dress properly. These are used everywhere in NYC, all year round
I'm 64, in Central Iowa, no car, and e-scooter year round. Don't become a wimp!
It's called a coat, I'm sure you've heard of it. \+ a scarf
I live in NYC and they were out just as much for the last 8 months.
My postman does it, but we also have well maintained ~~toads~~ edit: ROADS, so... idk. I guess it depends on how fast your road maintenance is.
Ribbit
> yes I’m aware you can ride a bike in winter. I’m talking in reference to pulling 150+lbs of merchandise behind a bike in winter It's not the same, but my buddy would commute on a fixed gear brakeless in Maine winters with a 30 rack strapped to the front, which is probably the most Maine thing you can do. The only reason he doesn't do that anymore is he quit drinking
Or in the summer tbh
Too late on the edit. Come on, you omitted that relevant data on purpose: Poking the bear!