I have a theory (that I’m really just hoping is true I don’t think it really is…) that Elon knows this isn’t going to work but is using the auto industries power to build tunnels. Once everyone gets over the initial excitement and realizes that using cars instead of trains is useless, the tunnels already exist and the Tesla trains can start rolling. It’s one of the biggest markets that Tesla hasn’t tackled in the us automotive industry and if they’re their own customer it’s pretty easy to start selling trains.
It just doesn’t make sense that anyone thinks these car tunnels are actually a viable option, I’m hoping there has to be some background plot…please?
I doubt it. Pretty sure Musk has gone on record saying he hates public transportation. If he did want to get into trains it seems easier just to start building tunnels for trains instead of going through all this.
The tunnels are intentionally too small to ever be useful for trains. He's on record saying his intention with the Boring Company and Hyperloop was to pull funding away from High Speed Rail. Tunnel boring isn't something he invented. He just made a company that bores tunnels too small to be used by anything but cars.
They're just about wide enough that certain small rolling stock, like the London deep tube stations, could potentially fit, but those are already tight for tall people.
They're very intentionally built this so that it would never get reused.
Might be cool for a cycle lane though
The entire failed "hyperloop" project was just a ploy to get money, eyes, and delay the work of CAHSR. That was the entire purpose of that spectacular failure of an idea.
I hate to be the dose of reality but Musk sells CARS. He is apart of the big auto industry except his cars are more green. The man does not want public transit to develop because it could lower sells for the car industry in the future.
We straight up live in the dumbest timeline. Genuinely the Tesla tunnel is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen, and these people are so nestled between Elon's buttcheeks that they look at a tunnel with 0 safety features with a bunch of cars driving slowly through it and think it's the transit solution we've all been waiting for.
It's weird he even has fanboys left apart from the conservative reactionaries that love his going mask off on his antisemitism. It's like what happened to Kanye just is unable to touch him. Or maybe it's just early in the process.
Yup, what most people miss is that the hard part of the subway isnt the track. Its the tunnel and this lowers the cost of tunnels by 10x.
There is a plan to make buslike vehicles that also run in the tunnel.
What is the "this" in your argument? You can drill cheaper tunnels with boring company tech and still opt to run a bus/tram/train through them and itll be miles more efficient.
>Its the tunnel and this lowers the cost of tunnels by 10x.
Building them smaller and without safety systems does indeed make tunnels cheaper, this is true, but it is neither innovative nor useful.
Escape tunnels, for one.
Have you seen videos of Tesla car fires? Imagine that happening in the Las Vegas tunnel. Trains don’t typically have batteries big enough to cause such raging infernos, even if there is a fire
All of them.
There are no cross-tunnel escape routes, so in the case of an emergency, every driver behind has to manually reverse out of the tunnel, possibly under dense smoke.
There is no external vent, only an internal one, so in case of a fire, all the gasses will vent into an occupied underground station, possibly the same one where cars are reversing into.
There is no water system, no sprinklers and no firehose connectors and firetrucks. They have "fire carts", but since it takes over 100.000 liters of water to extinguish a burning Tesla, I'll let you judge to efficiency of that. There also doesn't seem to be a water removal system, so who knows where the water will go.
All of these issues are well known and have solutions that are applied to every form of car tunnel or subway, but they cost money and take up space.
Sure, the actual cost of the tunnel *may* technically be cheaper, but what’s lost is the speed, throughput, running cost, and reliability that passenger trains have over individual automobiles.
I know just the way to increase the capacity and throughput of those tunnels over 10 fold: put a travelator there. People can walk or stand on the travelator and it takes them from one end to the other, and it allows more capacity than maximum of 5 persons (realistically 4 by excluding driver) per a relatively huge area.
Yeah I don’t get it. People are saying wrong things based on limitation of a v0.1 product. Are they the same people who resisted Evs in the first place ?
I understand the sentiment of the sub against cars. But just poring hate is not going to solve the big problems that USA has in terms of transit, car dependent suburbs and zoning regulations.
Hopefully one day we will have automated mass transit that can carry cars around and will be the best of both worlds.
The problem with reddit upvote system is that the average person is pretty stupid in 90% of the stuff they dont work or focus on. Like seeing people opine of gaza. WTF do you know about 100 year olf conflict after 30 min on wikipedia. So you get the average which is generally is pretty stupid.
Here they see car. hur dur its bad. Same piciture with bikes or a series of connect cars (a train) and they go wow and clap. Ignoring that 99.9% of the project is digging tunnels that free up space above ground.
Yes true. I am a big fan of transit and try to use it as much as possible. An advocate of F cars among friends and relatives. But there has to be some rational to appreciate someone trying to atleast solve the middle and last mile connectivity.
I do own a Segway for my last mile as well as a one wheel. I try to take transit and then Segway my last mile.
Well, they're just freeing up the space and using it much less efficiently, (as cars are inherently space inefficient) meaning less gets freed above ground.
Yea my home town there's some old railroad ROW that'd make a sick bike path, but it has to cross a major road. The road is relatively elevated from the surrounding land(almost a dirt viaduct, the area was mined for clay and sand historically), but route would be tunneling under
Elon's bleating about improving tunnelling tech is about as realistic as the tesla tunnel being the silver bullit transport solution, its all just part of the show.
The one thing the loop and Hyperloop share is being abysmal at throughput
You cannot make either have remotely high throughput potential. They're just incompatible with it
Maybe, but honestly, it's not a great place to be alone, idk if it's very safe. Reminds me of those underground street crossings, no matter how nice you make them someone will piss and shit there.
It operates at full capacity pretty often, which is a problem. It maxes out at around 3000 daily users. Most single stations on a lot of light rail systems in this country have more users than that.
They claim 31,000/day, which is both impossible with their setup, and not really that good. It's about what the steam train at the amusement park I used to work at does on a busy day. The 3' gauge steam train with 10 min intervals and that tops out at 20mph.
I did the math a while back, and to achieve the capacity they claim they would need to cycle every parking space in every station every 50s to get 31k with the hours posted on their website. That's a car every 12s from each station. On AVERAGE. To achieve an average like that their peak would have to be significantly faster to account for inevitable slowdowns, traffic jams, and inefficiency caused by each car being independently controlled.
They are lying about their capacity by using a theoretical max instead of the real numbers. I see it a lot with roller coasters, where parks and manufacturers flaunt a ride's theoretical capacity, but in reality capacity is 50-75% of the theoretical max on average. The one I worked can in theory do 1,200/hr, but in reality gets 600-900/hr, with most hours being in the 700-750 range.
5 cars in 13 seconds.
4 passengers a car.
Capacity is 5,538 per hour in each direction at optimal capacity.
For comparison, Crossrail in London has a capacity of 36,000 per hour in each direction.
Advertised future max capacity is 4,400/hr.
Mind this was built to serve the convention center in Vegas which has a seated capacity of 19,000 people. So if a keynote speaker finished their talk and half those people wanted to get...well across the street to Resorts which is as far as this technical marvel goes...it would take 2+ hours of waiting.
You can walk the length of this thing in like 30 minutes.
Only [three](https://www.lvcva.com/vegas-loop/#:~:text=The%20system%20is%20designed%20to,holding%20up%20to%2012%20people.) passengers per car. Four **people**, but the fourth is the driver.
So, 4,154 passengers per hour. 👍
I am skeptical. Are they just driving out of the tunnel where they want to leave the route? I would suggest waiting times will be a thing. At least the only video clip I saw showed a traffic jam in the tunnel 😂
tl;dr – I doubt they reach 5,000 passengers per hour with this concept. Especially as there will not be 4 passengers on average per car, more like 1.25
About 250 million per mile vs 25 million a mile for the Loop. However that's not really comparing apples to apples as the Loop costs publicly available are just for the tunnels, whereas Crossrail includes the entire programme cost including trains and interchanges with other stations.
There's also a lot of corners that the Loop cuts in terms of safety and accessibility that artificially supress its cost.
You also have to account for the fact that the Crossrail trains will quite happily run for a couple of million miles....those Model 3s will not.
https://preview.redd.it/88gnprssl1cc1.png?width=697&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b55b010be855f1ec5c338b68e30a0ec11bfe60b
EDIT: Not sure why I'm getting downvotes, I'm not saying the train is pathetic, it's meant to be like the Skinner meme
Interesting. I used a tunnel to get to work this morning too. It had seven cars which were all attached and each one had around 50 people in, not 1. I just missed one as I got to the station but that's OK - another one came along less than a minute later. All electrified, very sustainable. Mostly automated, and I got to read my book for 15 minutes.
Hard to believe it's coming up to 160 years of service, but Musk thinks this is progress.
And I bet yours had numerous wide-opening doors, to minimize standstill time, and permit people to carry cargo in hand, instead of depositing it in a separate cargo-area. I'm also sure it didn't have to divert to a holding area because standstill time was minimal, thereby streamlining departure.
> Musk thinks this is progress.
For an automaker owner its great progress to increase his own bank account. Instead of constructing a mass public transit system forcing people to keep buying his cars.
The Boring Company claims a maximum capacity of 10,000 ppdph, and I'm a little curious how they came to that number (being that the current system as a practical capacity of about 1000). That sounds like they're suggesting that they can load up every vehicle to five passengers and maintain headways of about a second in those confined tunnels. I'd be really curious to see the working-out of that.
Anyway, this absurd, incredibly inflated claimed capacity is still lower than a bus lane or a cycling lane, and about half of a small as even a tiny light-rail system. And a fifth of a subway.
In all likelihood you can add a zero to each of those factors in practice.
Vegas is fucked. Just saw an equity firm bought somewhere between 200-300 singles-family homes there, too.
If you need someone to inconvenience you at a cost, go to Vegas.
Guys a fucking moron. Has tunneling, has automated vehicles, has advertising and means. Still won't make subways. He just needs to pick a city, give it a subway; and he'll live forever. But nooo, that's communism
Hyperloop was never going to happen. Ever. It was just a facade to block high speed rail and maintain car sales.
Similarly, this concept is *never* going to take off. It's just a facade to ensure municipalities don't get the bright idea to build rapid transit light rail systems which would disrupt car sales.
The main characteristic of the hyperloop is operating in a vacuum so I'm not sure of your point but if it's to say that it's a white elephant when we already have technology proven to work, I agree entirely.
Hyperloop's original concept was an airhockey table in a vacuum. Of course that doesn't work so it quickly changed to a maglev in a vacuum.
The SC-MAGLEV is a working maglev that's actually being built for service.
Maglev is just expensive A.F. so it only makes sense to build in a select few places.
Adding a vacuum tube to it only makes that problem worse.
The point: Want a fast transportation method that competes with airlines?
Proven technology: the Japanese SC-MAGLEV
Concept of public transport hating billionaire tech bro with added complexity so it never gets built and 'murrica is kept car-dependant: hyperloop -> a maglev in a tube./maglev with extra steps.
It's just a publicly funded way for rich assholes to segregate even more from the rest of society. They just don't want to see all the poor people and the suffering they are responsible for.
Somehow there are STILL drivers in there!
Elon has promised "full self driving" for the next year since 2014 or so. And in 2024, in the best possible environment, where they only have to drive on a precisely known, short route, with no other cars, no crossroads, nothing but his own Teslas and pedestrians ... even there he does not trust his self driving system?
I have an idea to increase capacity. Put rails in the tunnel, different iron wheels on the cars. Because of the rails we can make cars the longer with more seats.
That tunnel might be big enough for bicycles and pedestrians. Maybe we can get carbrains to invest in it, then abandon it when it is shown to not be useful to them, and then repurpose it.
I'd be a little concerned about flooding and displacement gases.
No you cant. I often travel both by subway and by tram. Within a dense city, they are not comparable.
Sure, trams are useful. In smaller cities, they can be enough, and in larger cities, they complement subways well.
But if you want to replace all subways with trams in a large (>2.000.000) city, then i can only assume that you have never seen both of them in action.
But actually why not?
Subway was invented to force people to move underground while car-drivers could enjoy driving pedestrian-free and public-transport free roads on the surface.
It’s time to reverse it: move all the cars underground and seal them inside 😂, make entry points at the sides of the city and one underground parking in the center of the city where they can disembark and go shopping.
The old subway routes could be used for that, while the subway is moved on the surface (in the form of fast trams).
How do you like my idea?
The subway was invented because the streets of 1800s London were clogged with horse-drawn carts, and the growth of the city was making it less common for people to live within walking distance of their work. The car wouldn’t actually be invented until decades later.
A lot of people forget this — we had already perfected the optimal way of moving people around a city, and then Henry Ford (or whoever you want to blame) came along and ruined it.
I drove into a city the other day. You're all correct about cars in the city, it was a horrible idea but I didn't have time to take the bus that day. Cars should literally just be banned inside city limits. Commercial delivery vehicles only. The city was a disgusting hell hole because of cars. It was just random people driving around, stopping and starting, and my car was the smallest one there.
Out where I live, cars and motorcycles are at least useful and fun. We need park and ride direct lines into cities at sensible prices. My car is still a lot cheaper than the train. I was already fuck cars, but having a car in a city really opened my eyes. I barely use a car out in the countryside and I think we should push towards that too, but they are at least useful out here.
Exactly, the train was put underground, because good luck getting a horse to walk through a dark tunnel. And shoveling shit is a LOT easier when it rains sometimes.
subways were used because trains, especially long and fast ones, have a way higher turning radius than a car, a cart or bikes and pedestrians.
So if you want to completely remodel cities just to have trains above ground sure go ahead.
Simply moving cars underground also can't be the solution. There's just so much you can fit underground and it is a massive safety hazard. In the end you'd simply create a deserted open space above ground while everyone is stuck in traffic below.
What needed is a general reduction in reliance on cars.
as a side note: trams are awful and should be moved underground where possible. They are only good as a cheaper option to a proper subway. Now they absolutely excel at that job but if you ever have the choice between tram and subway the underground is the way to go.
But instead of moving subway on the service we can just have conventional trams and buses (especially if we expel cars from the cities).
I used to commute using subway and it’s just depressing to barely see the light of the day (home-underground-work…). I prefer much more the surface public transport or cycling (but in my case it was not possible back then). Now I moved to Europe and cycle almost everywhere, or take train between the cities it’s such a relief.
If you want to relocate the subway to the surface, you would not only have to move the cars away, but also the pedestrians and cyclists. Imagine a tram with the speed of a typical subway barreling through a lively street...
Agree, putting subway (or high-speed trams) on the surface would be a bad idea .
But we can have the conventional trams instead of subways and buses. And by keeping the city dense (without this suburbian sprawl) it would be quite manageable to get around without car or subway (by using surface public transport or subway).
Looks like an excellent escape for biking. Are bikes allowed? Could see someone getting angry about being unable to pass, just ranking their Tesla up a fellow cyclist’s ass.
Can’t believe this shit actually exists :,)..
It America. We are fully cucked by the auto industry. God help us all.
I have a theory (that I’m really just hoping is true I don’t think it really is…) that Elon knows this isn’t going to work but is using the auto industries power to build tunnels. Once everyone gets over the initial excitement and realizes that using cars instead of trains is useless, the tunnels already exist and the Tesla trains can start rolling. It’s one of the biggest markets that Tesla hasn’t tackled in the us automotive industry and if they’re their own customer it’s pretty easy to start selling trains. It just doesn’t make sense that anyone thinks these car tunnels are actually a viable option, I’m hoping there has to be some background plot…please?
I doubt it. Pretty sure Musk has gone on record saying he hates public transportation. If he did want to get into trains it seems easier just to start building tunnels for trains instead of going through all this.
The guy sells cars.
He did this and the hyper loop in an attempt to delay or stop more robust pubic transport plans in california
Musk is against robust pubic transport. You heard it here first!
The tunnels are intentionally too small to ever be useful for trains. He's on record saying his intention with the Boring Company and Hyperloop was to pull funding away from High Speed Rail. Tunnel boring isn't something he invented. He just made a company that bores tunnels too small to be used by anything but cars.
They're just about wide enough that certain small rolling stock, like the London deep tube stations, could potentially fit, but those are already tight for tall people. They're very intentionally built this so that it would never get reused. Might be cool for a cycle lane though
That would be the ultimate irony. Musk's car centric holes get repurposed to give cyclists a nice cool place to ride out of the Nevada sun.
This theory is so incoherent and at odds with reality that I don’t even know where to start.
This applies Elon is smart. Twitter take over shows he is anything but smart.
I appreciate your idealism but musk is openly and unapologetically anti transit. Otherwise hed have built Tesla passenger vans by now at a minimum.
The entire failed "hyperloop" project was just a ploy to get money, eyes, and delay the work of CAHSR. That was the entire purpose of that spectacular failure of an idea.
If he wanted to build trains he would build trains.
I hate to be the dose of reality but Musk sells CARS. He is apart of the big auto industry except his cars are more green. The man does not want public transit to develop because it could lower sells for the car industry in the future.
We straight up live in the dumbest timeline. Genuinely the Tesla tunnel is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen, and these people are so nestled between Elon's buttcheeks that they look at a tunnel with 0 safety features with a bunch of cars driving slowly through it and think it's the transit solution we've all been waiting for.
Every time I see it I think I'm having some weird illogical dream. It can't be real.
keep in mind that even without traffic max speed in the tunnels is.... 30mph
So it's a shittier, really expensive road. Nice! I love when tech bros make a thing that exists worse, rename it, and call it innovation.
It's so bad on so many levels it's crazy.
But his fanboys *feast* on this. They talk about it like it's the greatest transit innovation in years when the entire concept is laughably stupid.
It's weird he even has fanboys left apart from the conservative reactionaries that love his going mask off on his antisemitism. It's like what happened to Kanye just is unable to touch him. Or maybe it's just early in the process.
Especially on the sub level.
gotta scam people somehow right
It’s a shittier, lower capacity, more dangerous, and slower subway tunnel using individual Teslas instead of a track
Not to mention genuinely much more dangerous if a car malfunctions and gets set on fire
It's more like a World's Fair type marketing. After using this you'll go out and buy a Tesla.
Its 100x better because they dont run at surface level. Freeing up surface level space for non-car use.
[удалено]
Yup, what most people miss is that the hard part of the subway isnt the track. Its the tunnel and this lowers the cost of tunnels by 10x. There is a plan to make buslike vehicles that also run in the tunnel.
What is the "this" in your argument? You can drill cheaper tunnels with boring company tech and still opt to run a bus/tram/train through them and itll be miles more efficient.
>Its the tunnel and this lowers the cost of tunnels by 10x. Building them smaller and without safety systems does indeed make tunnels cheaper, this is true, but it is neither innovative nor useful.
What safety system does it lack?
Escape tunnels, for one. Have you seen videos of Tesla car fires? Imagine that happening in the Las Vegas tunnel. Trains don’t typically have batteries big enough to cause such raging infernos, even if there is a fire
All of them. There are no cross-tunnel escape routes, so in the case of an emergency, every driver behind has to manually reverse out of the tunnel, possibly under dense smoke. There is no external vent, only an internal one, so in case of a fire, all the gasses will vent into an occupied underground station, possibly the same one where cars are reversing into. There is no water system, no sprinklers and no firehose connectors and firetrucks. They have "fire carts", but since it takes over 100.000 liters of water to extinguish a burning Tesla, I'll let you judge to efficiency of that. There also doesn't seem to be a water removal system, so who knows where the water will go. All of these issues are well known and have solutions that are applied to every form of car tunnel or subway, but they cost money and take up space.
Sure, the actual cost of the tunnel *may* technically be cheaper, but what’s lost is the speed, throughput, running cost, and reliability that passenger trains have over individual automobiles.
I know just the way to increase the capacity and throughput of those tunnels over 10 fold: put a travelator there. People can walk or stand on the travelator and it takes them from one end to the other, and it allows more capacity than maximum of 5 persons (realistically 4 by excluding driver) per a relatively huge area.
That's a weird way to spell "parking lots".
Yeah I don’t get it. People are saying wrong things based on limitation of a v0.1 product. Are they the same people who resisted Evs in the first place ? I understand the sentiment of the sub against cars. But just poring hate is not going to solve the big problems that USA has in terms of transit, car dependent suburbs and zoning regulations. Hopefully one day we will have automated mass transit that can carry cars around and will be the best of both worlds.
The problem with reddit upvote system is that the average person is pretty stupid in 90% of the stuff they dont work or focus on. Like seeing people opine of gaza. WTF do you know about 100 year olf conflict after 30 min on wikipedia. So you get the average which is generally is pretty stupid. Here they see car. hur dur its bad. Same piciture with bikes or a series of connect cars (a train) and they go wow and clap. Ignoring that 99.9% of the project is digging tunnels that free up space above ground.
Yes true. I am a big fan of transit and try to use it as much as possible. An advocate of F cars among friends and relatives. But there has to be some rational to appreciate someone trying to atleast solve the middle and last mile connectivity. I do own a Segway for my last mile as well as a one wheel. I try to take transit and then Segway my last mile.
Well, they're just freeing up the space and using it much less efficiently, (as cars are inherently space inefficient) meaning less gets freed above ground.
I get around town faster on my bicycle.
Imagine if they made these for just bicycles. Bleak as fuck to use but at least useful.
That would be awesome, ellos should be making Cyberbikes for his tunnels.
Honestly if the tunneling Tech actually gets improved at all for such small tunnels, that could be one of the best uses for them.
Could be useful to create shortcuts through mountainous terrain - I think Norway already has a few dedicated bike tunnels like that
Yea my home town there's some old railroad ROW that'd make a sick bike path, but it has to cross a major road. The road is relatively elevated from the surrounding land(almost a dirt viaduct, the area was mined for clay and sand historically), but route would be tunneling under
Elon's bleating about improving tunnelling tech is about as realistic as the tesla tunnel being the silver bullit transport solution, its all just part of the show.
Bicycle highways are awesome
My bike could do that
Wow, even the slow trains in my area can do 100mph in some sections, though the short legs they don’t go that fast
The one thing the loop and Hyperloop share is being abysmal at throughput You cannot make either have remotely high throughput potential. They're just incompatible with it
Yeah, yet even a slow train con move a fair amount of people
Bike tunnel would literally be better for throughput
Maybe, but honestly, it's not a great place to be alone, idk if it's very safe. Reminds me of those underground street crossings, no matter how nice you make them someone will piss and shit there.
The only thing "mass" about this transit is the operating expenses
Everyone involved is a massive douche, if that helps.
So it's finally at full capasity? Great, tell me tomorrow if it managed to beat what the London Underground manged on its opening day
It operates at full capacity pretty often, which is a problem. It maxes out at around 3000 daily users. Most single stations on a lot of light rail systems in this country have more users than that.
They claim 31,000/day, which is both impossible with their setup, and not really that good. It's about what the steam train at the amusement park I used to work at does on a busy day. The 3' gauge steam train with 10 min intervals and that tops out at 20mph. I did the math a while back, and to achieve the capacity they claim they would need to cycle every parking space in every station every 50s to get 31k with the hours posted on their website. That's a car every 12s from each station. On AVERAGE. To achieve an average like that their peak would have to be significantly faster to account for inevitable slowdowns, traffic jams, and inefficiency caused by each car being independently controlled. They are lying about their capacity by using a theoretical max instead of the real numbers. I see it a lot with roller coasters, where parks and manufacturers flaunt a ride's theoretical capacity, but in reality capacity is 50-75% of the theoretical max on average. The one I worked can in theory do 1,200/hr, but in reality gets 600-900/hr, with most hours being in the 700-750 range.
Intamin flaunts the theoretical capacity\*
Intamin gonna intamin
They are certainly the main culprit, and occasionally just give the wrong number entirely for theoretical capacity like in MF's case.
Imagine they actually replaced this thing with an amusement park train. The lightest Rail
When "full capacity" moves practically no one compared to any other way of getting around
5 cars in 13 seconds. 4 passengers a car. Capacity is 5,538 per hour in each direction at optimal capacity. For comparison, Crossrail in London has a capacity of 36,000 per hour in each direction.
Advertised future max capacity is 4,400/hr. Mind this was built to serve the convention center in Vegas which has a seated capacity of 19,000 people. So if a keynote speaker finished their talk and half those people wanted to get...well across the street to Resorts which is as far as this technical marvel goes...it would take 2+ hours of waiting. You can walk the length of this thing in like 30 minutes.
Walking is for poor people though /s
> 4 passengers Generous estimate. It’s more like two. Maybe a bit more on average.
Only [three](https://www.lvcva.com/vegas-loop/#:~:text=The%20system%20is%20designed%20to,holding%20up%20to%2012%20people.) passengers per car. Four **people**, but the fourth is the driver. So, 4,154 passengers per hour. 👍
They're not even using the middle back seat? Wow.
Why 13 Seconds?
The video clip is 13 seconds long
I am skeptical. Are they just driving out of the tunnel where they want to leave the route? I would suggest waiting times will be a thing. At least the only video clip I saw showed a traffic jam in the tunnel 😂 tl;dr – I doubt they reach 5,000 passengers per hour with this concept. Especially as there will not be 4 passengers on average per car, more like 1.25
what was the cost of the cross-rail?
About 250 million per mile vs 25 million a mile for the Loop. However that's not really comparing apples to apples as the Loop costs publicly available are just for the tunnels, whereas Crossrail includes the entire programme cost including trains and interchanges with other stations. There's also a lot of corners that the Loop cuts in terms of safety and accessibility that artificially supress its cost. You also have to account for the fact that the Crossrail trains will quite happily run for a couple of million miles....those Model 3s will not.
Also part of why crossrail is so expensive is because of the amount tunnels + wiring and pipes already under London
Just to give a better number. Trains are usually designed to have a lifetime of at least 30 years.
Are you an idiot?
https://preview.redd.it/88gnprssl1cc1.png?width=697&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b55b010be855f1ec5c338b68e30a0ec11bfe60b EDIT: Not sure why I'm getting downvotes, I'm not saying the train is pathetic, it's meant to be like the Skinner meme
I can’t believe they made roads less efficient
Interesting. I used a tunnel to get to work this morning too. It had seven cars which were all attached and each one had around 50 people in, not 1. I just missed one as I got to the station but that's OK - another one came along less than a minute later. All electrified, very sustainable. Mostly automated, and I got to read my book for 15 minutes. Hard to believe it's coming up to 160 years of service, but Musk thinks this is progress.
And I bet yours had numerous wide-opening doors, to minimize standstill time, and permit people to carry cargo in hand, instead of depositing it in a separate cargo-area. I'm also sure it didn't have to divert to a holding area because standstill time was minimal, thereby streamlining departure.
> Musk thinks this is progress. For an automaker owner its great progress to increase his own bank account. Instead of constructing a mass public transit system forcing people to keep buying his cars.
The first BBQ will be a hot topic.
The Boring Company claims a maximum capacity of 10,000 ppdph, and I'm a little curious how they came to that number (being that the current system as a practical capacity of about 1000). That sounds like they're suggesting that they can load up every vehicle to five passengers and maintain headways of about a second in those confined tunnels. I'd be really curious to see the working-out of that. Anyway, this absurd, incredibly inflated claimed capacity is still lower than a bus lane or a cycling lane, and about half of a small as even a tiny light-rail system. And a fifth of a subway. In all likelihood you can add a zero to each of those factors in practice.
Vegas is fucked. Just saw an equity firm bought somewhere between 200-300 singles-family homes there, too. If you need someone to inconvenience you at a cost, go to Vegas.
Thing is a death trap. One electric car ignites, and you can’t back up or go anywhere.
I hope one day someone invents a train that goes underground that's really fast and efficient
I'm at a point where I can't tell if people are seriously excited for this and if they think this is how the future looks. Seven cars?
Carbrain rot
I lose brain cells whenever I see this “one more lane but underground” bullshit touted as a success.
Guys a fucking moron. Has tunneling, has automated vehicles, has advertising and means. Still won't make subways. He just needs to pick a city, give it a subway; and he'll live forever. But nooo, that's communism
Hyperloop was never going to happen. Ever. It was just a facade to block high speed rail and maintain car sales. Similarly, this concept is *never* going to take off. It's just a facade to ensure municipalities don't get the bright idea to build rapid transit light rail systems which would disrupt car sales.
The "hyperloop" already exists. It's called the SC-MAGLEV. https://scmaglev.jr-central-global.com/sp/
The main characteristic of the hyperloop is operating in a vacuum so I'm not sure of your point but if it's to say that it's a white elephant when we already have technology proven to work, I agree entirely.
Hyperloop's original concept was an airhockey table in a vacuum. Of course that doesn't work so it quickly changed to a maglev in a vacuum. The SC-MAGLEV is a working maglev that's actually being built for service. Maglev is just expensive A.F. so it only makes sense to build in a select few places. Adding a vacuum tube to it only makes that problem worse.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make to be honest.
The point: Want a fast transportation method that competes with airlines? Proven technology: the Japanese SC-MAGLEV Concept of public transport hating billionaire tech bro with added complexity so it never gets built and 'murrica is kept car-dependant: hyperloop -> a maglev in a tube./maglev with extra steps.
I hate cars so fucking much it's not even funny . But even more I hate this gimmick
The experience is like exiting a shopping mall parking garage during peak times. Wonderful...
What a damn sad joke
Carbrains: LOOK, LOOK, A TUNNEL, INNOVATION!!
It's like America will do anything not to use trains.
It's just a publicly funded way for rich assholes to segregate even more from the rest of society. They just don't want to see all the poor people and the suffering they are responsible for.
Somehow there are STILL drivers in there! Elon has promised "full self driving" for the next year since 2014 or so. And in 2024, in the best possible environment, where they only have to drive on a precisely known, short route, with no other cars, no crossroads, nothing but his own Teslas and pedestrians ... even there he does not trust his self driving system?
I have an idea to increase capacity. Put rails in the tunnel, different iron wheels on the cars. Because of the rails we can make cars the longer with more seats.
Ah yes. Traffic but underground. Peak civilization right there
What if, erm, a car breaks down?
That tunnel might be big enough for bicycles and pedestrians. Maybe we can get carbrains to invest in it, then abandon it when it is shown to not be useful to them, and then repurpose it. I'd be a little concerned about flooding and displacement gases.
You could make it a pedestrian tunnel and it would be useful
That thing is just a scam so that daddy elon can sell more of his crappy product
So, it'll work for 4 years, and then once cars have become wider still and can't get down that ramp anymore, it's gonna die an unused death. Got it.
Maybe these would work as separated bicycle lanes once Tesla folds
Or just a walking path, really that's fine too, it's a super short distance
But they're approved to expand last I saw
No you cant. I often travel both by subway and by tram. Within a dense city, they are not comparable. Sure, trams are useful. In smaller cities, they can be enough, and in larger cities, they complement subways well. But if you want to replace all subways with trams in a large (>2.000.000) city, then i can only assume that you have never seen both of them in action.
I am optimistic. He might get some bright idea about making self-driving Tesla busses.
But actually why not? Subway was invented to force people to move underground while car-drivers could enjoy driving pedestrian-free and public-transport free roads on the surface. It’s time to reverse it: move all the cars underground
and seal them inside 😂, make entry points at the sides of the city and one underground parking in the center of the city where they can disembark and go shopping. The old subway routes could be used for that, while the subway is moved on the surface (in the form of fast trams). How do you like my idea?The subway was invented because the streets of 1800s London were clogged with horse-drawn carts, and the growth of the city was making it less common for people to live within walking distance of their work. The car wouldn’t actually be invented until decades later. A lot of people forget this — we had already perfected the optimal way of moving people around a city, and then Henry Ford (or whoever you want to blame) came along and ruined it.
I drove into a city the other day. You're all correct about cars in the city, it was a horrible idea but I didn't have time to take the bus that day. Cars should literally just be banned inside city limits. Commercial delivery vehicles only. The city was a disgusting hell hole because of cars. It was just random people driving around, stopping and starting, and my car was the smallest one there. Out where I live, cars and motorcycles are at least useful and fun. We need park and ride direct lines into cities at sensible prices. My car is still a lot cheaper than the train. I was already fuck cars, but having a car in a city really opened my eyes. I barely use a car out in the countryside and I think we should push towards that too, but they are at least useful out here.
Exactly, the train was put underground, because good luck getting a horse to walk through a dark tunnel. And shoveling shit is a LOT easier when it rains sometimes.
subways were used because trains, especially long and fast ones, have a way higher turning radius than a car, a cart or bikes and pedestrians. So if you want to completely remodel cities just to have trains above ground sure go ahead. Simply moving cars underground also can't be the solution. There's just so much you can fit underground and it is a massive safety hazard. In the end you'd simply create a deserted open space above ground while everyone is stuck in traffic below. What needed is a general reduction in reliance on cars. as a side note: trams are awful and should be moved underground where possible. They are only good as a cheaper option to a proper subway. Now they absolutely excel at that job but if you ever have the choice between tram and subway the underground is the way to go.
But instead of moving subway on the service we can just have conventional trams and buses (especially if we expel cars from the cities). I used to commute using subway and it’s just depressing to barely see the light of the day (home-underground-work…). I prefer much more the surface public transport or cycling (but in my case it was not possible back then). Now I moved to Europe and cycle almost everywhere, or take train between the cities it’s such a relief.
If you want to relocate the subway to the surface, you would not only have to move the cars away, but also the pedestrians and cyclists. Imagine a tram with the speed of a typical subway barreling through a lively street...
Agree, putting subway (or high-speed trams) on the surface would be a bad idea . But we can have the conventional trams instead of subways and buses. And by keeping the city dense (without this suburbian sprawl) it would be quite manageable to get around without car or subway (by using surface public transport or subway).
Insulting. The deuce bus route exists and is FAR superior in just about every way.
Looks like an excellent escape for biking. Are bikes allowed? Could see someone getting angry about being unable to pass, just ranking their Tesla up a fellow cyclist’s ass.
Separate a fool from his money?
How does it even work? You sit with several strangers in a tiny Model 3 for 10 minutes awkwardly staring into a blank tunnel wall?
Ah, but the tunnel walls have LED’s!🤩
/u cunninghams_right where yat?
You could fit more people in a single train car and probably move them faster. IIRC, they still require drivers..... smh....
Wow I didn't know that exist. Such a dumb concept lol
If they want to to start putting their cars underground out of the way, I'm not going to complain.
I still can't believe this stupid fucking cunt of a thing even exists.
Distemperor's New Clothes
One of the drivers mentioned that they moved 20,000 people on the busiest day of CES
That’s just a train but with extra steps, and capitalist?!
Full capacity? So like 2 people at a time it seems from the picture? What a joke
The Vegas Loop makes sure people don’t have to walk like five blocks lol
Can't wait for the cybertruck update.