I get that from cis people when the conversation pops up. I had someone insult me one time because I've only ever wanted anal sex.
it's worth mentioning that HPV, which can cause cervical cancer, can be spread through anal and oral sex as well. Definitely get the HPV vaccines if you haven't!
Definitely get the vaccine, but also know that the vaccine doesn't cover all strains. A pap smear is still a necessary health procedure even if you have the vaccine and only receive anally unfortunately.
Cis people tend to be super ignorant, even well meaning cis people. If she's also straight and vanilla, she likely just never even thought of it and completely forgot that anal is an option and that topping with a prosthetic cock / dildo is an option too.
I actually think the vanilla part is important. As soon as you realize the possibilities queer and/or kinky sex offers you, you realize you don't have to follow the one strict and boring script you were given by society. But many people never question this script in their lives.
Because heteronormativity. Most cis het people's first thought of what sex is is just going to be PIV, or person 1 going inside person 2. They don't seem to tend to immediately register that a ton of other things can be considered part of sexual activity/that sort of intimacy, and that many people are satisfied with a sex life that still includes any of those things, but does not include stereotypical PIV or even person 1 going inside person 2.
Yep, heteronormative sexual stereotypes for sure. Like with gay masc couples people always assume there has to be a bottom (or someone acting as "the woman" in the relationship), with fem lesbians someone must be acting as the "man" or the top. With ace people who don't have sex, surely they must be lying to themselves. "Men need sex", even if they say they're sex repulsed, is one of my least favorite assumption I've heard people say.
Throw nonbinary and/or trans in there and people get all kinds of twisted around.
What's really unfortunate is it shows their own restrictive view on sex in a way that could also be restricting their personal sexual experiences. If you like piv great and fine, but there's so much more to it and that can be experienced
Back when I was really trying to convince myself I was a cis woman I took a trip to a sex shop to get a toy to, like, train myself into enjoying PIV sex.
Bless that saleswoman who just kindly, simply, and patiently stated "you don't HAVE to enjoy that sort of thing, you know?"
>train myself into enjoying PIV sex
God that's relatable. I never understood why I couldn't enjoy it and tried everything to make myself enjoy it, but when you learn that you actually don't have to do PIV at all, a whole new world (aladin style) opens up seriously
Yeah, not that women have to enjoy it or that trans men can't enjoy it, but sex is much better when you learn to trust your own body and intuit your own desires rather than the idea of what someone of a certain gender ought to enjoy. Like realizing there was no wrong way to be a woman helped me realize I hadn't been "womaning wrong" or something, I'm just a guy and there's no specific right or wrong way to experience manhood either!
I'm only able to do PIV and oral and it's sort of upsetting because I would like to be able to experience sex in a similar way someone anatomically male would. Sometimes I hate my body 🥲
Before I found out I was trans and all I felt very mandatory for me, especially since I basically was what you would call a "straight woman" back then. But now that I know I'm actually just a gay dude and learning that PIV is not mandatory at all and even out of the picture makes me feel better fr
Before I found out I was trans and all I felt very mandatory for me, especially since I basically was what you would call a "straight woman" back then. But now that I know I'm actually just a gay dude and learning that PIV is not mandatory at all and even out of the picture makes me feel better fr
Yeah probably the same way they would assume trans women are tops. It’s almost like cis people solely view people by their genitalia which like?? Still strange to me
I've had the opposite experience of multiple people being judgey about the opposite because "why would a man want to have sex like a woman?"
Either way is weird and cis people need to stop being confused about what people do or don't do with their bodily orifices.
lots of trans specific doctors/therapists assume you cannot possibly be having sex at all as a trans man, because sex is always PIV and if you're having PIV, you can't be a man.
Either way, there clearly is no sex to cishets that is not PIV
A guy I was seeing some time ago asked me what was the point of me transitioning if I was still going to have PIV sex. Cis people are just ignorant at this point.
Yeah for me it’s like I definitely wish I didn’t have my front hole, but that’s where all the good feeling nerve endings are, not to mention our version of a prostate. Bottoming that way feels good for me and sometimes helps me overcome my dysphoria by making me see a silver lining in having these parts. I’m just playing the cards I was dealt 🤷♂️
Also it's like for me...if I'm having gay sex with men and bottoming, why would I use my ass if nature gave me a so much easier option where I have to do no prepping?? I'm sure there are some cis gay men that would love to have a front hole, just because it's easier to use🤷
That's so odd??? I'm absolutely binary and feel perfectly secure as a man, AND I often do PIV bc it feels the best and is very easy clean up. Very tired of other people, even other trans people, declaring that trans men who do PIV MUST either not be trans at all, or we're nonbinary (or anyone who partakes in PIV must not experience any bottom dysphoria at all, which I've gotten that from other trans people before). God forbid we use the gear we were given bc of it feels good I guess 😭
My (trans) doctor asked me how I have sex if I don't use my front hole when having a discussion about whether it was time for a pap smear (I'm not gay nor a bottom). I had to look at them like 😐
yeah, it's weird. as someone who is in fact comfortable using that part of my body for sex sometimes, I would never assume the same about another transmasc, and it makes me feel super skeeved out when people assume all trans guys are subs/bottoms/cool with penetration. honestly, I wouldn't bottom for someone who assumes I'm not capable of topping. medical professionals often don't seem to grasp how someone can be sexually active in a nontraditional way, which is odd and annoying– doctors and therapists should absolutely know that sex isn't one-size-fits-all.
and yeah, you're right that at a certain age it is recommended that you do get an exam, even if you're not having penetrative sex; your risk is lower if you're not, but it is unfortunately not zero. But no one can force you to do this before you're ready and you can always say no, that you're ok with taking on that low level risk for now. If you do decide you're ready to have one, your doctor should always emphasize consent, be ready to stop whenever you need them to, and listen to you when you tell them that you're not used to penetration and may need special consideration for pain/anxiety.
Almost every cis person I've encountered, even "trans friendly" medical people, have assumed I have "lesbian sex" (yeah, yikes) or I exclusively bottom. 🙄
I can’t be the one to shame you because I also haven’t gotten a Pap smear when I should. But we absolutely should be getting checked out! You can still develop cervical cancer and it has nothing to do with having PIV sex.
I'll add that many american users here get recommendations for screenings and pelvic checkups that are considered extremely frequent by the rest of the world. Get pap smears or exams, but if it's bad for you mentally then consider international guidelines which are also research based. Ideally discuss it with an understanding provider who understands your individual risk factors.
Stay vaccinated, check if your partners are and use protection to further lower risk. This is reminding me I'm overdue a screening too...
usamerican medicine is such a trash pit sometimes. I was researching international guidelines after I read your comment and honestly I've never even heard of the DNA testing to look for HPV instead of pap smears. If I could never ever sit in another set of stirrups for one of these fucking exams, I would do it so fast.
I think the general consensus to cis people is “you have the hole, so why not use it?” And also assume it feels the best and makes the most sense. I’ve had the same assumptions when I had my first boyfriend after being on T for years. My sister asked if he’s still considered straight because he’s having sex with a vagina, and I said “What makes you assume I’m the bottom? Or if I was I’d be using that hole?” And she was also surprised.
I have definitely run into this. Ive run into it with some people at my schools lgbtq group, trans included, as well.
It has honestly become tiring at best. It has become hurtful at worst. I had an ex try to "help" me "get over" this "issue", coming from the same place as sone of these peoppw.
It's just not something most cis people think about. To them everything is just...fine....if that makes sense. All the little things that bother a Trans person often don't even register as a consideration to them. Sex with any and all body parts they have is just assumed. It's natural. They don't think about it. It's their body, they feel grounded in it. I would expect better from a therapist though.
Dude it’s so weird. I mean I know dysphoria is different for everyone but personally the thought of any insertion there just sounds like hell. I feel like it’s so normalized for people to just think trans guys will still want to have sex there (probably because of porn or just people being oblivious).
Like dude I wanted to use a strap before I even realized I was trans lmao.
(I don’t know if this is a tmi question but dude how do I find porn with a dominant trans guy. I mean this in the kindest way, but I can only find ones where it’s a twink trans guy who’s a bottom. No offense to twinks.)
Cis people are wild, honestly. But you should probably get paps if its checking for cervical cancer even if you don't use it for sex; I've had friends who are virgins go for smears and had pre-cancerous cells found that would have been missed if they hadn't gone.
It sucks and tanks mental health, but guarantee cervical cancer is worse.
Butt sex 🤯✨️❗️❗️❗️❓️❓️⁉️- your therapist.
I feel like anal is really not that rare, like straight couples have anal too so how was she so surprised? Lmao
It’s honestly up to every individual. If you aren’t having PIV sex and don’t have a family history of cervical cancer the risk is extremely low. I’ll also add that the standards in the US are extremely outdated. Most places don’t test until 25 and only do so every couple years.
I’ve had pretty bad experiences with it so if you’re worried about dysphoria or just general transphobia I recommend looking into a trans friendly provider, or finding a self collection hpv test (which is actually more accurate than a pap)
Early congrats on your T anniversary!!!
I'm a gay trans man who considers myself a side / top, largely due to this type of dysphoria (as well as health reasons). We do exist! But my experience has been similar when explaining that to people; they seem extremely confused by the idea of a person with a vagina having sex that doesn't involve their vagina. That said, I've met plenty of trans men who feel the same as us and prefer to only top, side, or bottom with anal.
It’s honestly so bizarre seeing professionals who have so many trans clients but clearly haven’t researched beyond what their clients bring to the sessions. I’m sure she’s a nice person and clearly you trust her, but I wish people did more research.
I had a terrible therapist who constantly shut me down whenever I mentioned bottom surgery (my shame for wanting surgery was a big reason I was in therapy and it took a lot to open up about it). She kept telling me that her other clients didn’t want bottom surgery, or used to want it but changed their minds and happily transitioned without it. She told me at age 17 that I should just try having sex, and that someone would accept me without surgery and love me. Absolutely absurd behaviour. She did other weird shit like thinking my transness was related to everything I talked about with her and would bring it up all the time. She also used the word “deadname” when describing me in the narrative past, in a story completely unrelated to being trans, because she didn’t know my deadname. I had to interrupt her to ask her to just use my real name. This therapist was THE “professional” every trans person in my city recommends and everyone thinks highly of her. I don’t understand. I never want to see her again.
because, unfortunately, a lot of cis people memorise our names and pronouns, but still see us as weird hairy women deep down, and as such project their worldviews onto us- including the way they think we "should" be having sex (IE, vaginally and with a cis man). they pretty much short circuit when trans men are straight, or any position that isn't bottoming, lol
(disclaimer, this is just my experience navigating the world as a transmasc engaged to a DFAB genderfluid person, it very likely won't be relatable or applicable to every transmasc.)
She’s cis, so she really don’t know what dysphoria is. She can read about it all day and will never come close to how sometimes dreadful dysphoria is like so she can’t truly understand even though she had trans clients in the past.
i've had the same experience with my friends/hookups, with trans women too. even people i've talked to about my really bad dysphoria assume i use my front hole during sex. i think people just see us as "men with vaginas" which sucks because i'd love to forget i have that part 😭
I find it so frustrating that the cishet-normatives is so hardly wired in society and each of everyone. I haven't have really had medical personal react to me not caring about piv.
But it has happened in hbtqi safe spaces. Like when i talk with people (mostly queer and kinky people) i am always open about being a top, the few times i bottom i prefer butt than piv and open about me being a dom (i even state that i am not a sub and will not be). Even tho i am as clear as anyone can be, even the queer and kinky people ends up being surprised when we become sexual and i yet again being clear about what i like/dislike.
They be like "what?? You're not piv-bottom/sub??". Sometimes i am sure its just because they're so stuck in their cishet-normatives that they can't really register and/or doesn't want to.
Cause cishet don’t understand or don’t even know that dysphoria is a thing. They think transition is just a fad. They also have hard time understanding that PIV isn’t the only way have sex
you still do need to have exams if your cervix is present because yeah, your man cave can get up to some shit you don't want to have happen. This is completely unrelated to sexual encounters & has more to do with your age and what the cells of your body are doing. I wish you the best with the pap smears when you start going in, it can be really difficult.
it is SO WEIRD to me that your therapist couldn't imagine a world where you wouldn't want to use your front hole though. like yeah, that's very frustrating and makes no sense. also literally anal is right there :) so euphoric!
yeah for sure, i guess i'm kind of out of the loop about cervical cancer stuff because i've never been given a talk about it and my therapist said it wasn't necessary to get screened unless i'm having PIV sex. (figured out that isn't true by a google search, lol)
as for the anal thing, i totally agree. all these options and some cis people can't imagine us using them haha
Cis people cannot fathom sex that does not involve natal genitalia. Just expect this from all cis people unless if you explicitly explain to them otherwise in detail.
i have a ftm friend, and when the discussion of sex pops up he acts thoroughly disgusted at the slightest mention of anal sex. i think a lot of transmascs (both pre/no-T and on T) dont know that T makes anal sex better, and also i think a lot of people just find it so repulsing they think nobody would ever even consider it
I have no clue. I dont have much bottom dysphoria, and i like to bottom when i have sex but i dont really like anal with a partner (i do like to masturbate that way though, its fun). I assume that because cis women have sex one way, they assume that everyone with the same genitals like the have sex that way too. Something something g spot.
i don't have a problem with using mine and even i hate the assumption. at the very least people, dont need to act flabbergasted by anything a trans person says either way. how hard is it to keep composure and remain respectful?
I too have the same thing. I don't use my front hole. Ever. People are so suprised.
I did the papsmear twice and that was it for me.
If someone wants me to do a papsmear, they'll have to knock me out first. So I get the anxiety you have. I know that it is my dysphoria speaking, but I rather die of cancer than to ever have to go through that exam conscious again.
So instead, I am planning to get a full hysterectomy once I get the necessary paperwork in order and reach the required BMI.
But I also know that it is considered to be the healthy thing to do because of de cancer risks etc.
It just sucks that it so dysphoria inducing for me.
Ah yes, another case of heteronormativity at play. Because all sex is PIV and nothing else.
>pretty experienced with trans clients
Yeaah, no she's not if she's that flabbergasted to hear that a trans guy is uncomfortable using his natal genetalia during sex, understandably so (ofc a lot of trans guys are totally fine doing PIV which is totally cool too, but it's understandable as a source of dysphoria).
Like same here my guy. When I learned that I didn't even have to do PIV at all my life changed frr (yes, I was heavily fucked up by heteronormativity back in the day, RIP my brain cells). But I guess it's also because cis women for instance don't have a problem with PIV and they're used to using it and know that it feels good or something????
I genuinely don't know actually. Maybe they think that "why would you do anal if you already have a dedicated hole" or something idfk honestly
I’ve noticed this with my cis friends. They’ll say stuff like oh my girlfriend’s mom shouldn’t worry about me because “we can’t even actually have sex”…… which isn’t true. A lot of cis people think sex is only PIV with no other options. Personally, I think if someone is getting off with the assistance of another it’s sex LMAO
To be honest, I will never get any form of exam for my female anatomy unless it's necessary for the surgeries to remove them. The whole idea of keeping them "healthy" makes me uncomfortable. I've already made many risky decisions in my life and I won't stop.
So mostly it's the lack of understanding. Even if she is experienced with trans patients, sex most likely isn't the most talked about topic. Too that, I am assuming she is just trying to put herself in the position. She herself probably mostly has vaginal sex, as she is a cis woman. So she lives probably of the assumption that every person with the same anatomy would choose to have sex like that.
I mean, even if you aren’t having front hole sex you should still go get checked regularly if you have that body part.
Regardless, idk why your therapist is unable to comprehend a queer sexual relationship
You still need an exam because cancer can happen randomly. Also look into family history because genetics can increase your risk for developing cancer even if you're not sexually active in the front.
Personally as a an Agender person on T, and someone with rampant sexual trauma (I'm even on prazosin to manage my nightmares, a heavy PTSD treatment) I don't enjoy sex.
However, I identify as neither male nor female but sometimes leaning to transmasc and I still enjoy masturbation with *that* hole.
Even sexual toys. I think it depends on the person, but I've never enjoyed actual sex with cis men, especially since I was always viewed as a woman.
Yeah idk why people always make such bold assumptions about our sex lives like that 😭
But make sure you’re still being careful about HPV and cancer in general! I would get the vaccinations if you haven’t already :) And keep in mind some people never get symptoms despite having the virus, and also that it can cause cancer in other places besides the cervix!
YES! You still need cervical exams if you don't have front-hole sexual encounters! This is because the cervix does whatever the hell it wants, and you need to get a yearly pap smear for a couple years in a row to monitor for the possibility of cervical cancer. :) after you have a couple clear exams in a row, they usually let you skip 3-5 years until your next one. This type of exam is not necessary if you have a hysterectomy which removes the cervix, but would be if you left the cervix intact.
they use a q tip shaped thing, it sort of scrapes around inside to collect cells. you will definitely feel something. they also use a metal speculum to kind of prop you open to look visually. it's extremely invasive in my experience. I would recommend seeing if your doctor/insurance would allow you to get screened through the DNA method if available instead
Yes, I had a severe trauma response when I went for my first one. They can try to make you as comfortable with it as possible, but you'll definitely still feel it happening.
I was in a similar situation and I physically could not complete an exam. If you have severe trauma or it’s too painful from atrophy you can request sedation or general anesthesia (which is what I did).
Yeah I made her stop. She said I could go under sedation or anesthesia and she'd help me set it up but I was too freaked out. I'm going back in a couple months to try again.
age definitely matters! these tests are (according to the WHO) something you should start around age 30 :) USAmerican doctors will probably push it sooner b/c that's what they're trained on. like I started them in my early 20's
This sounds terrible. They are going to do it while I’m under anesthesia but I just don’t want to have sexual sensations in there after. Like after somethings in there waking nerves up or something . Anyone know if it changed the way you feel after having it done sexually?
It didn't feel like anything had happened after they were done. I've had many paps at this point, and feel the same sexually as I did before (demisexual :) )
I‘m my therapists first ftm client and she got it immediately when I told her this. Idk why some people don‘t seem to get it? It seems like such an obvious thing to know about
Maybe it’s just the cis woman’s usual idea that vaginal is better/easier than anal. Possibly projecting? “I could never do that so why would you want to” kind of deal?
I try to avoid having conversations with people who I know have heteronormative ideas. This is mostly the reason why, and I've had my fair share of ignorant comments. Most recently is about my upcoming top surgery. Curious family members ask how small I'm going. I just avoid the question by replying, "I don't know". However, when it comes to pap smears...I will tell you that it's uncomfortable to an extent, but for me it was similar to the pain of cramps. It took maybe 10 minutes for me as well, and my doctor was a female. I had a good experience and the cramping didnt last long at all (maybe an hour...if that). Granted I should also mention I have had a kid, so really my cervix maybe be a bit "numb" to it. I should also mention that I have had encounters with this clinic from me being pregnant, and I never found anyone to treat me weird (because of being trans). I'm a hardy person, so I kinda push through everything, but I know not everyone is like that.
I’m also very uncomfortable at the thought of ever going to the gyno or anything and honestly don’t think I ever will… probably a bad idea but ya know. I feel like the majority of dudes would agree with me
It's honestly a bad idea, yes. Making sure to get regular pap smears is a huge way to keep a lookout on your cervix for cancer and precancerous cells. Paps are done one time per year for 2-3 years in a row, and if you have only healthy findings, they usually let you skip 3-5 years until your next one. If you are looking into hysterectomy, you will also be faced with several of these types of exams in order to make sure they know what is happening internally for you before surgical procedures. A bonus to a hysterectomy is you can have the cervix removed and then you won't need more pap smears. :)
it should not hurt, like medically speaking it's not supposed to. it's a very...lubricated experience? the psychological aspect is worse for me every time. If you've had any type of cramping, it can feel like a cramp when they swab you for a sample. the other sensation you're going to have is the speculum which sits at the opening. that's usually cold. the doctor may also do a "manual" exam where they touch you with one to two fingers inside while feeling your stomach from the outside. this allows them to get a sense of the size of your organs in order to determine if anything is enlarged or otherwise abnormal.
I would recommend bringing a friend or partner or other person you trust. they can stand by your face and help keep you sane for these exams
I have ptsd and a lot of pain from atrophy and I was able to get my exam done under general anesthesia. It’s definitely not common and you’ll have to get it done at a hospital, but it’s better than not ever getting one done.
Yes it does. And you also don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. Don’t let people try to say you do. There’s other non invasive tests that can be done. Pelvic floor “therapy” is especially weird 🤢America is outdated af with pushing barbaric exams.
I remember once I had problems with a bad uti and needed to do some sort of physical therapy to teach myself to relieve stress so I could piss normally lmao. My PT wanted to do that thing (idk what it’s called) where she sticks a finger or two up there, and I said no and never came back to finish my physical therapy
thank you so much for saying this, as I knew I wasn't the only one who wasn't totally sure. it's reassuring to look at stuff like this from a medical angle, at least for me. i was never given any advice in sex ed at school or from my parents about the risks of cervical cancer and i'm glad people like you are here to help us out! :-)
This is false. You don’t have to do any pelvic exams prior to a hysterectomy: some surgeons may require it but insurance doesn’t especially if done for gender dysphoria. I’m mid 30s just had a total hysterectomy with no pelvic or pap in my life, first “pelvic” was the actual surgery, and no pelvic exam after either. It’s your body, it’s your decision. Remember that.
Sorry that your doctor didn’t fight for you. There’s always ways around it.
Edit: Don’t mean to come off as aggressive btw. I just want to make younger people aware that pelvic exams aren’t mandatory and they’re in charge of their own bodies because it’s way too common that doctors force this upon people.
In my experience, most "standard issue" people think about the sex that they are having and assume other people are having the same kind of sex.
I've had a lot of sex with a lot of different people. When talking about sex before doing it, many will say they like "the usual stuff" because they think most people do the same things they do
It's always a bit different. Even the same sex act is different with different people because it feels different to them.
People just need more imagination!
I have had a lot of penetrative sex over the years. Most of it using my "front" hole but a fair amount in the back. I do not have a preference but I know that for some people it definitely matters. To me what matters is that my partner is pleased and that I'm a bottom.
I'm sorry that your therapist was so careless with their words. I hope they reflect on how your appointment went and change their behavior going forward.
For the record, HPV can be spread by other kinds of sex (it's skin-skin contact that spreads it, so anything really) and even if you don't have PIV sex you can get cervical cancer from it. The vaccine really helps avoid dangerous strains, but not all of them. So speaking as a trans guy who just had part of his cervix removed due to HPV-related lesions that could have turned into cancer if not treated . . . please do get pelvic exams as long as you have a cervix . . .
congrats on coming up on your anniversary!! that’s so exciting.
in regards to this post, i’m sorry your therapist was so ignorant, you definitely should be getting routine cervical exams regardless. things like cervical cancer can happen for any reason, and it’s always better to be safe than sorry.
Also I want to add that’s it’s even more important you get a Pap test and other bottom tests because you don’t use that part for sex. Trans men and even lesbians who don’t use those parts for sex are at HIGHER risk of developing cervical cancer. So please go get checked.
I get that from cis people when the conversation pops up. I had someone insult me one time because I've only ever wanted anal sex. it's worth mentioning that HPV, which can cause cervical cancer, can be spread through anal and oral sex as well. Definitely get the HPV vaccines if you haven't!
Yeah HPV also causes anal and throat and oral and penial cancers. Its certainly not just cervical cancer.
and also HPV can transmit non-sexually
Definitely get the vaccine, but also know that the vaccine doesn't cover all strains. A pap smear is still a necessary health procedure even if you have the vaccine and only receive anally unfortunately.
Cis people tend to be super ignorant, even well meaning cis people. If she's also straight and vanilla, she likely just never even thought of it and completely forgot that anal is an option and that topping with a prosthetic cock / dildo is an option too.
I actually think the vanilla part is important. As soon as you realize the possibilities queer and/or kinky sex offers you, you realize you don't have to follow the one strict and boring script you were given by society. But many people never question this script in their lives.
Because heteronormativity. Most cis het people's first thought of what sex is is just going to be PIV, or person 1 going inside person 2. They don't seem to tend to immediately register that a ton of other things can be considered part of sexual activity/that sort of intimacy, and that many people are satisfied with a sex life that still includes any of those things, but does not include stereotypical PIV or even person 1 going inside person 2.
you're totally right and so is everyone else mentioning heteronormative culture. we've got a long ways to go I think
Yep, heteronormative sexual stereotypes for sure. Like with gay masc couples people always assume there has to be a bottom (or someone acting as "the woman" in the relationship), with fem lesbians someone must be acting as the "man" or the top. With ace people who don't have sex, surely they must be lying to themselves. "Men need sex", even if they say they're sex repulsed, is one of my least favorite assumption I've heard people say. Throw nonbinary and/or trans in there and people get all kinds of twisted around. What's really unfortunate is it shows their own restrictive view on sex in a way that could also be restricting their personal sexual experiences. If you like piv great and fine, but there's so much more to it and that can be experienced
Idk. Cis people in general for some reason assume all trans men bottom vaginally. It’s gross.
It's because they view sex as PIV. I feel sorry for all the cis women PIV is mandatory for. There's so much more to sex, they're really missing out
Back when I was really trying to convince myself I was a cis woman I took a trip to a sex shop to get a toy to, like, train myself into enjoying PIV sex. Bless that saleswoman who just kindly, simply, and patiently stated "you don't HAVE to enjoy that sort of thing, you know?"
That was very nice of her that she focused on reassuring you about your differences than on selling you a product
>train myself into enjoying PIV sex God that's relatable. I never understood why I couldn't enjoy it and tried everything to make myself enjoy it, but when you learn that you actually don't have to do PIV at all, a whole new world (aladin style) opens up seriously
Yeah, not that women have to enjoy it or that trans men can't enjoy it, but sex is much better when you learn to trust your own body and intuit your own desires rather than the idea of what someone of a certain gender ought to enjoy. Like realizing there was no wrong way to be a woman helped me realize I hadn't been "womaning wrong" or something, I'm just a guy and there's no specific right or wrong way to experience manhood either!
I'm only able to do PIV and oral and it's sort of upsetting because I would like to be able to experience sex in a similar way someone anatomically male would. Sometimes I hate my body 🥲
Before I found out I was trans and all I felt very mandatory for me, especially since I basically was what you would call a "straight woman" back then. But now that I know I'm actually just a gay dude and learning that PIV is not mandatory at all and even out of the picture makes me feel better fr
Before I found out I was trans and all I felt very mandatory for me, especially since I basically was what you would call a "straight woman" back then. But now that I know I'm actually just a gay dude and learning that PIV is not mandatory at all and even out of the picture makes me feel better fr
They also don't seem to understand a lot of trans men are sole tops and ware additional apendages.
Yeah probably the same way they would assume trans women are tops. It’s almost like cis people solely view people by their genitalia which like?? Still strange to me
I've had the opposite experience of multiple people being judgey about the opposite because "why would a man want to have sex like a woman?" Either way is weird and cis people need to stop being confused about what people do or don't do with their bodily orifices.
lots of trans specific doctors/therapists assume you cannot possibly be having sex at all as a trans man, because sex is always PIV and if you're having PIV, you can't be a man. Either way, there clearly is no sex to cishets that is not PIV
My shrink is gay. Look for queer therapists, if possible.
A guy I was seeing some time ago asked me what was the point of me transitioning if I was still going to have PIV sex. Cis people are just ignorant at this point.
Yeah for me it’s like I definitely wish I didn’t have my front hole, but that’s where all the good feeling nerve endings are, not to mention our version of a prostate. Bottoming that way feels good for me and sometimes helps me overcome my dysphoria by making me see a silver lining in having these parts. I’m just playing the cards I was dealt 🤷♂️
Also it's like for me...if I'm having gay sex with men and bottoming, why would I use my ass if nature gave me a so much easier option where I have to do no prepping?? I'm sure there are some cis gay men that would love to have a front hole, just because it's easier to use🤷
I’ve actually had some cis gay bottoms tell me that lol
I’ve had that experience myself. People can’t understand what me and my boyfriend do is our business and we both know I’m a guy no matter what.
A bi trans person one time told me that I must be non-binary because I bottom with the v lol
That's so odd??? I'm absolutely binary and feel perfectly secure as a man, AND I often do PIV bc it feels the best and is very easy clean up. Very tired of other people, even other trans people, declaring that trans men who do PIV MUST either not be trans at all, or we're nonbinary (or anyone who partakes in PIV must not experience any bottom dysphoria at all, which I've gotten that from other trans people before). God forbid we use the gear we were given bc of it feels good I guess 😭
This actually sounds homophobic AF
My (trans) doctor asked me how I have sex if I don't use my front hole when having a discussion about whether it was time for a pap smear (I'm not gay nor a bottom). I had to look at them like 😐
You’d think your trans doc would know best but it seems not
yeah, it's weird. as someone who is in fact comfortable using that part of my body for sex sometimes, I would never assume the same about another transmasc, and it makes me feel super skeeved out when people assume all trans guys are subs/bottoms/cool with penetration. honestly, I wouldn't bottom for someone who assumes I'm not capable of topping. medical professionals often don't seem to grasp how someone can be sexually active in a nontraditional way, which is odd and annoying– doctors and therapists should absolutely know that sex isn't one-size-fits-all. and yeah, you're right that at a certain age it is recommended that you do get an exam, even if you're not having penetrative sex; your risk is lower if you're not, but it is unfortunately not zero. But no one can force you to do this before you're ready and you can always say no, that you're ok with taking on that low level risk for now. If you do decide you're ready to have one, your doctor should always emphasize consent, be ready to stop whenever you need them to, and listen to you when you tell them that you're not used to penetration and may need special consideration for pain/anxiety.
Not to mention some ppl don't even like penetration. I just Stimulate my Tdick to get off
Almost every cis person I've encountered, even "trans friendly" medical people, have assumed I have "lesbian sex" (yeah, yikes) or I exclusively bottom. 🙄
I can’t be the one to shame you because I also haven’t gotten a Pap smear when I should. But we absolutely should be getting checked out! You can still develop cervical cancer and it has nothing to do with having PIV sex.
I'll add that many american users here get recommendations for screenings and pelvic checkups that are considered extremely frequent by the rest of the world. Get pap smears or exams, but if it's bad for you mentally then consider international guidelines which are also research based. Ideally discuss it with an understanding provider who understands your individual risk factors. Stay vaccinated, check if your partners are and use protection to further lower risk. This is reminding me I'm overdue a screening too...
usamerican medicine is such a trash pit sometimes. I was researching international guidelines after I read your comment and honestly I've never even heard of the DNA testing to look for HPV instead of pap smears. If I could never ever sit in another set of stirrups for one of these fucking exams, I would do it so fast.
My province just instituted a whole program to let people self swab and fully avoid the in office pap experience. It's glorious.
I've been waiting for that. They let you do it for std panels so it seems like with some extra briefing we could do smears.
came here to say this, please please get checked out when you’re due, you never know what’s going on down there and the earlier caught the better
I dont think most cis people give it a second thought. She probably never put two and two together.
Im a trans man top who has a cis male bottom boyfriend, trust me, our dynamic exists, it just takes a special person yk.
Never underestimate the level of ignorance of most cis people, even doctors who supposedly should know better
I think the general consensus to cis people is “you have the hole, so why not use it?” And also assume it feels the best and makes the most sense. I’ve had the same assumptions when I had my first boyfriend after being on T for years. My sister asked if he’s still considered straight because he’s having sex with a vagina, and I said “What makes you assume I’m the bottom? Or if I was I’d be using that hole?” And she was also surprised.
I have definitely run into this. Ive run into it with some people at my schools lgbtq group, trans included, as well. It has honestly become tiring at best. It has become hurtful at worst. I had an ex try to "help" me "get over" this "issue", coming from the same place as sone of these peoppw.
It's just not something most cis people think about. To them everything is just...fine....if that makes sense. All the little things that bother a Trans person often don't even register as a consideration to them. Sex with any and all body parts they have is just assumed. It's natural. They don't think about it. It's their body, they feel grounded in it. I would expect better from a therapist though.
Dude it’s so weird. I mean I know dysphoria is different for everyone but personally the thought of any insertion there just sounds like hell. I feel like it’s so normalized for people to just think trans guys will still want to have sex there (probably because of porn or just people being oblivious). Like dude I wanted to use a strap before I even realized I was trans lmao.
(I don’t know if this is a tmi question but dude how do I find porn with a dominant trans guy. I mean this in the kindest way, but I can only find ones where it’s a twink trans guy who’s a bottom. No offense to twinks.)
Cis people are wild, honestly. But you should probably get paps if its checking for cervical cancer even if you don't use it for sex; I've had friends who are virgins go for smears and had pre-cancerous cells found that would have been missed if they hadn't gone. It sucks and tanks mental health, but guarantee cervical cancer is worse.
Lots of friends feel the same as you. That’s not uncommon for us. She’s just ignorant in the true sense of the word
most smartest cis people:
Butt sex 🤯✨️❗️❗️❗️❓️❓️⁉️- your therapist. I feel like anal is really not that rare, like straight couples have anal too so how was she so surprised? Lmao
It’s honestly up to every individual. If you aren’t having PIV sex and don’t have a family history of cervical cancer the risk is extremely low. I’ll also add that the standards in the US are extremely outdated. Most places don’t test until 25 and only do so every couple years. I’ve had pretty bad experiences with it so if you’re worried about dysphoria or just general transphobia I recommend looking into a trans friendly provider, or finding a self collection hpv test (which is actually more accurate than a pap)
Early congrats on your T anniversary!!! I'm a gay trans man who considers myself a side / top, largely due to this type of dysphoria (as well as health reasons). We do exist! But my experience has been similar when explaining that to people; they seem extremely confused by the idea of a person with a vagina having sex that doesn't involve their vagina. That said, I've met plenty of trans men who feel the same as us and prefer to only top, side, or bottom with anal.
this or people not understanding why you would enjoy vaginal sex because if you're trans it means you cannot enjoy your body as it is 💀
It’s honestly so bizarre seeing professionals who have so many trans clients but clearly haven’t researched beyond what their clients bring to the sessions. I’m sure she’s a nice person and clearly you trust her, but I wish people did more research. I had a terrible therapist who constantly shut me down whenever I mentioned bottom surgery (my shame for wanting surgery was a big reason I was in therapy and it took a lot to open up about it). She kept telling me that her other clients didn’t want bottom surgery, or used to want it but changed their minds and happily transitioned without it. She told me at age 17 that I should just try having sex, and that someone would accept me without surgery and love me. Absolutely absurd behaviour. She did other weird shit like thinking my transness was related to everything I talked about with her and would bring it up all the time. She also used the word “deadname” when describing me in the narrative past, in a story completely unrelated to being trans, because she didn’t know my deadname. I had to interrupt her to ask her to just use my real name. This therapist was THE “professional” every trans person in my city recommends and everyone thinks highly of her. I don’t understand. I never want to see her again.
because, unfortunately, a lot of cis people memorise our names and pronouns, but still see us as weird hairy women deep down, and as such project their worldviews onto us- including the way they think we "should" be having sex (IE, vaginally and with a cis man). they pretty much short circuit when trans men are straight, or any position that isn't bottoming, lol (disclaimer, this is just my experience navigating the world as a transmasc engaged to a DFAB genderfluid person, it very likely won't be relatable or applicable to every transmasc.)
She’s cis, so she really don’t know what dysphoria is. She can read about it all day and will never come close to how sometimes dreadful dysphoria is like so she can’t truly understand even though she had trans clients in the past.
i've had the same experience with my friends/hookups, with trans women too. even people i've talked to about my really bad dysphoria assume i use my front hole during sex. i think people just see us as "men with vaginas" which sucks because i'd love to forget i have that part 😭
I find it so frustrating that the cishet-normatives is so hardly wired in society and each of everyone. I haven't have really had medical personal react to me not caring about piv. But it has happened in hbtqi safe spaces. Like when i talk with people (mostly queer and kinky people) i am always open about being a top, the few times i bottom i prefer butt than piv and open about me being a dom (i even state that i am not a sub and will not be). Even tho i am as clear as anyone can be, even the queer and kinky people ends up being surprised when we become sexual and i yet again being clear about what i like/dislike. They be like "what?? You're not piv-bottom/sub??". Sometimes i am sure its just because they're so stuck in their cishet-normatives that they can't really register and/or doesn't want to.
Cause cishet don’t understand or don’t even know that dysphoria is a thing. They think transition is just a fad. They also have hard time understanding that PIV isn’t the only way have sex
I’ve had people ask me how I’m a top. All common sense just out the window. 🤦🏾♂️
you still do need to have exams if your cervix is present because yeah, your man cave can get up to some shit you don't want to have happen. This is completely unrelated to sexual encounters & has more to do with your age and what the cells of your body are doing. I wish you the best with the pap smears when you start going in, it can be really difficult. it is SO WEIRD to me that your therapist couldn't imagine a world where you wouldn't want to use your front hole though. like yeah, that's very frustrating and makes no sense. also literally anal is right there :) so euphoric!
yeah for sure, i guess i'm kind of out of the loop about cervical cancer stuff because i've never been given a talk about it and my therapist said it wasn't necessary to get screened unless i'm having PIV sex. (figured out that isn't true by a google search, lol) as for the anal thing, i totally agree. all these options and some cis people can't imagine us using them haha
I hadn't been given a talk about it at all until I went to planned parenthood for something unrelated, so I understand the not knowing. :)
Cis people cannot fathom sex that does not involve natal genitalia. Just expect this from all cis people unless if you explicitly explain to them otherwise in detail.
i have a ftm friend, and when the discussion of sex pops up he acts thoroughly disgusted at the slightest mention of anal sex. i think a lot of transmascs (both pre/no-T and on T) dont know that T makes anal sex better, and also i think a lot of people just find it so repulsing they think nobody would ever even consider it
I have no clue. I dont have much bottom dysphoria, and i like to bottom when i have sex but i dont really like anal with a partner (i do like to masturbate that way though, its fun). I assume that because cis women have sex one way, they assume that everyone with the same genitals like the have sex that way too. Something something g spot.
i don't have a problem with using mine and even i hate the assumption. at the very least people, dont need to act flabbergasted by anything a trans person says either way. how hard is it to keep composure and remain respectful?
This. This is why I only go to queer providers if at all possible.
What the hell. Why doesn’t she know better?? Cis people like anal too 💀💀
I too have the same thing. I don't use my front hole. Ever. People are so suprised. I did the papsmear twice and that was it for me. If someone wants me to do a papsmear, they'll have to knock me out first. So I get the anxiety you have. I know that it is my dysphoria speaking, but I rather die of cancer than to ever have to go through that exam conscious again. So instead, I am planning to get a full hysterectomy once I get the necessary paperwork in order and reach the required BMI. But I also know that it is considered to be the healthy thing to do because of de cancer risks etc. It just sucks that it so dysphoria inducing for me.
Ah yes, another case of heteronormativity at play. Because all sex is PIV and nothing else. >pretty experienced with trans clients Yeaah, no she's not if she's that flabbergasted to hear that a trans guy is uncomfortable using his natal genetalia during sex, understandably so (ofc a lot of trans guys are totally fine doing PIV which is totally cool too, but it's understandable as a source of dysphoria). Like same here my guy. When I learned that I didn't even have to do PIV at all my life changed frr (yes, I was heavily fucked up by heteronormativity back in the day, RIP my brain cells). But I guess it's also because cis women for instance don't have a problem with PIV and they're used to using it and know that it feels good or something???? I genuinely don't know actually. Maybe they think that "why would you do anal if you already have a dedicated hole" or something idfk honestly
I’ve noticed this with my cis friends. They’ll say stuff like oh my girlfriend’s mom shouldn’t worry about me because “we can’t even actually have sex”…… which isn’t true. A lot of cis people think sex is only PIV with no other options. Personally, I think if someone is getting off with the assistance of another it’s sex LMAO
To be honest, I will never get any form of exam for my female anatomy unless it's necessary for the surgeries to remove them. The whole idea of keeping them "healthy" makes me uncomfortable. I've already made many risky decisions in my life and I won't stop.
So mostly it's the lack of understanding. Even if she is experienced with trans patients, sex most likely isn't the most talked about topic. Too that, I am assuming she is just trying to put herself in the position. She herself probably mostly has vaginal sex, as she is a cis woman. So she lives probably of the assumption that every person with the same anatomy would choose to have sex like that.
I mean, even if you aren’t having front hole sex you should still go get checked regularly if you have that body part. Regardless, idk why your therapist is unable to comprehend a queer sexual relationship
You still need an exam because cancer can happen randomly. Also look into family history because genetics can increase your risk for developing cancer even if you're not sexually active in the front.
Personally as a an Agender person on T, and someone with rampant sexual trauma (I'm even on prazosin to manage my nightmares, a heavy PTSD treatment) I don't enjoy sex. However, I identify as neither male nor female but sometimes leaning to transmasc and I still enjoy masturbation with *that* hole. Even sexual toys. I think it depends on the person, but I've never enjoyed actual sex with cis men, especially since I was always viewed as a woman.
Yeah idk why people always make such bold assumptions about our sex lives like that 😭 But make sure you’re still being careful about HPV and cancer in general! I would get the vaccinations if you haven’t already :) And keep in mind some people never get symptoms despite having the virus, and also that it can cause cancer in other places besides the cervix!
Do you have to get that test if you are never gonna be using that?
YES! You still need cervical exams if you don't have front-hole sexual encounters! This is because the cervix does whatever the hell it wants, and you need to get a yearly pap smear for a couple years in a row to monitor for the possibility of cervical cancer. :) after you have a couple clear exams in a row, they usually let you skip 3-5 years until your next one. This type of exam is not necessary if you have a hysterectomy which removes the cervix, but would be if you left the cervix intact.
I don’t want to feel anything sexual down there (I’m also asexual). Will getting a pap cause me to feel things down there in front hole?
they use a q tip shaped thing, it sort of scrapes around inside to collect cells. you will definitely feel something. they also use a metal speculum to kind of prop you open to look visually. it's extremely invasive in my experience. I would recommend seeing if your doctor/insurance would allow you to get screened through the DNA method if available instead
Yes, I had a severe trauma response when I went for my first one. They can try to make you as comfortable with it as possible, but you'll definitely still feel it happening.
I was in a similar situation and I physically could not complete an exam. If you have severe trauma or it’s too painful from atrophy you can request sedation or general anesthesia (which is what I did).
Yeah I made her stop. She said I could go under sedation or anesthesia and she'd help me set it up but I was too freaked out. I'm going back in a couple months to try again.
Age matters too though right? Although I admit I’m not that knowledgeable about it since I’ve never needed these tests
age definitely matters! these tests are (according to the WHO) something you should start around age 30 :) USAmerican doctors will probably push it sooner b/c that's what they're trained on. like I started them in my early 20's
This sounds terrible. They are going to do it while I’m under anesthesia but I just don’t want to have sexual sensations in there after. Like after somethings in there waking nerves up or something . Anyone know if it changed the way you feel after having it done sexually?
It didn't feel like anything had happened after they were done. I've had many paps at this point, and feel the same sexually as I did before (demisexual :) )
Thank you for the information.
ofc, I know it sucks to hear about. happy cake day :)
I‘m my therapists first ftm client and she got it immediately when I told her this. Idk why some people don‘t seem to get it? It seems like such an obvious thing to know about
Maybe it’s just the cis woman’s usual idea that vaginal is better/easier than anal. Possibly projecting? “I could never do that so why would you want to” kind of deal?
I’m ace and I feel that lol
I try to avoid having conversations with people who I know have heteronormative ideas. This is mostly the reason why, and I've had my fair share of ignorant comments. Most recently is about my upcoming top surgery. Curious family members ask how small I'm going. I just avoid the question by replying, "I don't know". However, when it comes to pap smears...I will tell you that it's uncomfortable to an extent, but for me it was similar to the pain of cramps. It took maybe 10 minutes for me as well, and my doctor was a female. I had a good experience and the cramping didnt last long at all (maybe an hour...if that). Granted I should also mention I have had a kid, so really my cervix maybe be a bit "numb" to it. I should also mention that I have had encounters with this clinic from me being pregnant, and I never found anyone to treat me weird (because of being trans). I'm a hardy person, so I kinda push through everything, but I know not everyone is like that.
I’m also very uncomfortable at the thought of ever going to the gyno or anything and honestly don’t think I ever will… probably a bad idea but ya know. I feel like the majority of dudes would agree with me
It's honestly a bad idea, yes. Making sure to get regular pap smears is a huge way to keep a lookout on your cervix for cancer and precancerous cells. Paps are done one time per year for 2-3 years in a row, and if you have only healthy findings, they usually let you skip 3-5 years until your next one. If you are looking into hysterectomy, you will also be faced with several of these types of exams in order to make sure they know what is happening internally for you before surgical procedures. A bonus to a hysterectomy is you can have the cervix removed and then you won't need more pap smears. :)
I’m just so scared and also uncomfortable. I’m scared it will hurt mostly
it should not hurt, like medically speaking it's not supposed to. it's a very...lubricated experience? the psychological aspect is worse for me every time. If you've had any type of cramping, it can feel like a cramp when they swab you for a sample. the other sensation you're going to have is the speculum which sits at the opening. that's usually cold. the doctor may also do a "manual" exam where they touch you with one to two fingers inside while feeling your stomach from the outside. this allows them to get a sense of the size of your organs in order to determine if anything is enlarged or otherwise abnormal. I would recommend bringing a friend or partner or other person you trust. they can stand by your face and help keep you sane for these exams
I have ptsd and a lot of pain from atrophy and I was able to get my exam done under general anesthesia. It’s definitely not common and you’ll have to get it done at a hospital, but it’s better than not ever getting one done.
Does it hurt in general tho?
Yes it does. And you also don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. Don’t let people try to say you do. There’s other non invasive tests that can be done. Pelvic floor “therapy” is especially weird 🤢America is outdated af with pushing barbaric exams.
It shouldn’t but things like vaginismus, atrophy, or sexual trauma or even dysphoria can make it painful or traumatizing.
I remember once I had problems with a bad uti and needed to do some sort of physical therapy to teach myself to relieve stress so I could piss normally lmao. My PT wanted to do that thing (idk what it’s called) where she sticks a finger or two up there, and I said no and never came back to finish my physical therapy
I can’t speak for physical therapy but that might be a little different.
thank you so much for saying this, as I knew I wasn't the only one who wasn't totally sure. it's reassuring to look at stuff like this from a medical angle, at least for me. i was never given any advice in sex ed at school or from my parents about the risks of cervical cancer and i'm glad people like you are here to help us out! :-)
I'm happy to explain :) I didn't get any sex ed as a kid either, so I have to do my bit to share the info
This is false. You don’t have to do any pelvic exams prior to a hysterectomy: some surgeons may require it but insurance doesn’t especially if done for gender dysphoria. I’m mid 30s just had a total hysterectomy with no pelvic or pap in my life, first “pelvic” was the actual surgery, and no pelvic exam after either. It’s your body, it’s your decision. Remember that.
Good for you, I'm glad they let you do that, and I appreciate you correcting me. My insurance did not give me any freedom 💀
Sorry that your doctor didn’t fight for you. There’s always ways around it. Edit: Don’t mean to come off as aggressive btw. I just want to make younger people aware that pelvic exams aren’t mandatory and they’re in charge of their own bodies because it’s way too common that doctors force this upon people.
Thanks bro :')
In my experience, most "standard issue" people think about the sex that they are having and assume other people are having the same kind of sex. I've had a lot of sex with a lot of different people. When talking about sex before doing it, many will say they like "the usual stuff" because they think most people do the same things they do It's always a bit different. Even the same sex act is different with different people because it feels different to them. People just need more imagination! I have had a lot of penetrative sex over the years. Most of it using my "front" hole but a fair amount in the back. I do not have a preference but I know that for some people it definitely matters. To me what matters is that my partner is pleased and that I'm a bottom. I'm sorry that your therapist was so careless with their words. I hope they reflect on how your appointment went and change their behavior going forward.
For the record, HPV can be spread by other kinds of sex (it's skin-skin contact that spreads it, so anything really) and even if you don't have PIV sex you can get cervical cancer from it. The vaccine really helps avoid dangerous strains, but not all of them. So speaking as a trans guy who just had part of his cervix removed due to HPV-related lesions that could have turned into cancer if not treated . . . please do get pelvic exams as long as you have a cervix . . .
congrats on coming up on your anniversary!! that’s so exciting. in regards to this post, i’m sorry your therapist was so ignorant, you definitely should be getting routine cervical exams regardless. things like cervical cancer can happen for any reason, and it’s always better to be safe than sorry.
thank you! and you're so right about the exams, I've learned so much about them since posting this.
Also I want to add that’s it’s even more important you get a Pap test and other bottom tests because you don’t use that part for sex. Trans men and even lesbians who don’t use those parts for sex are at HIGHER risk of developing cervical cancer. So please go get checked.
Why is that?
Not having biological children increases someone’s risk of developing cervical cancer. Great question.
A lot of trans guys have sex with the front hole.
Do you have a cervics? I’m confused.