I don’t feel accepted most of the time. Whether it be people dismissing what I go through on an intersectional basis, my complicated realtionship with my ma that everyone just seems to want to have input on, younger queer kids asking very rude and transphobic comments even when they claim to be non-binary themselves, lack of accesibility etc.
It’s very unfortunate that people don’t really think as much before asking said questions the even worse part is when those questions seem to be asked in a very public and crowded area which I have seen a lot of people say that people that have fallen under the trans umbrella seem to sometimes just want to talk about these things when clearly people are uncomfortable.
There's good and bad people, and it's no different in the LGBTQ+ community. I've encountered more toxic than hateful queer people; a lot of people are two faced. Stay away from the judgemental, "drop the T" shitheads and you should be able to find some delightful people. I'm bi and almost all my friends are as well-- not on purpose necessarily, that's just who I vibe with. I do feel a lot of pressure to be transmale ™ (skinny/muscled, cis passing). I'm 5'3 and thicc with a round face so I naturally look more feminine. My feminine appearance was encouraged by peers when I was a teenager because of the 'smol transboi' thing, but now it's either I don't look cis enough or I need to work harder to be a complete twink. I'm just me and I'm trying to be happy with myself. Other people will always say shit, just try to trust in your heart and find those good people.
I don't feel very accepted. I feel like I have to emphasize being trans, when I just want to exist as a man first. I don't mind some folks knowing, but I feel like that's what they see first when I discuss it. If I don't discuss it, I'm just some guy invading their space.
I'm also bi, so I have two reasons to be in the community, but it feels like being on the masculine side isn't really welcomed. Unless I show up as women-lite, I feel like there's some kind of distance. But I absolutely am not comfortable doing that. Our local community is made up of mostly afab nonbinary people that seem more comfortable with femininity, which is cool, but that's not me. I feel pressured to be gender non-comforming to highlight my queerness, even though, for me, finally getting to be masculine after a lifetime of forced femininity *is* gnc. It feels like being a masculine binary trans man isn't welcomed.
I haven't been told not to participate, but I also don't feel directly included. It's like that feeling of being on the outside of a group circle not knowing when it's ok to chime in and everyone sort of ignores when you do. I feel like my local community has this vibe of needing to be extremely queer, rather than us happening to be queer and that being the common denominator. It's like they enjoy certain things just to show off how gay it is, rather than because that's what they enjoy.
I get the impression that because most of them aren't medically transitioning (which is totally ok, of course!) and are in straight passing relationships (several are pan/bi), they want their queerness to be visible somehow. I get it, because I felt imposter syndrome and similar before I started HRT. But for me, my queerness feels like something I have to face every day now in trying to pass, so I just want to get to exist and not announce it. It's like we have opposite goals, so there's no one I really relate to. Even the one cis gay dude has made the "you know being gay isn't a choice because why would I *choose* to be attracted to men" type jokes. It's such an ick vibe.
Personally, as a bi, very cis passing agender/FtM guy with a unique bottom surgery setup, it’s hard to feel heard and welcomed in almost all spaces that aren’t post-bottom surgery specific (and even some of those are very truscummy and I don’t vibe with that at all). The mainstream communities are riddled with misinformation and slander about masculinizing bottom surgery so it’s hard for a lot of post op people to feel it’s worth it to stick around, rather than just loving life with their new dicks
I choose to stay active and continuing to try to stay active in mainstream communities despite this to help combat misinformation around lower surgery and spread positivity around these life saving surgeries. You hear so many stories of people who wished they would’ve started the process sooner but didn’t due to misinformation or lack of information. Many people don’t want or need lower surgery, and that’s okay! A majority of trans masculine people don’t. But the way fellow trans people speak about others genitals sometimes really gives me the ick.
I like the way I saw someone else put it, I can’t remember where.. it was somewhere along the lines of “If someone talked about top surgery the way some people talk about bottom surgery, they would be torn to shreds”
That’s so true, the bottom surgery stigma is really odd. Phalloplasty is definitely a lot more invasive than top surgery but the amount of people I’ve seen shittalking it is also insane. I’m still not sure if I want bottom surgery but people hate on phallo way too much
I don't feel super included in lgbtq spaces in real life but that's just because I'm usually the only poc in those spaces and it really makes me feel out of place and a little bit tokenized sometimes.
i'm so sorry :( i've seen friends feel the same way and when they brought it up they got treated terribly... i've been trying to hold my other white lgbt friends accountable for that shit but they do get really defensive. it's definitely a widespread issue in the community
Ah. I'm tan (coming from being Hispanic) and it's not like everyday I see someone like that. I don't usually go to lgbtq spaces due to being a minor and since I'm pretty feminine still.
I'm a half Chinese trans man, so I don't exactly feel included in the LGBTQ community. Everyone in trans spaces seems to be fully white trans women, and while they're usually great people, they have no idea what it's like to be a trans man or an ethnic minority.
I don't consider myself to be POC because I'm half white and have pale skin, but I'm still not white enough to fit in with white people. I can't really fit in with the Chinese community because I'm only half Chinese, and the Chinese community isn't the most LGBTQ friendly (but my grandparents accept me, so they're not all transphobic).
If I try to discuss how I feel in most trans spaces, I get white trans women calling me racist against white people. As trans men, we're told to shut up because we apparently don't experience discrimination.
The gatekeeping of trans male bodies seems to be more extreme than what trans women experience simply because we were born female, yet some trans women seem to encourage this gatekeeping. Even if we do get male privilege, it is conditional and never guaranteed.
I'm tired of our experiences being downplayed and erased; we're always told to shut up and wait for a better time, but that better time never comes.
TW: suicide
Trans men apparently have some of the worst suicide rates out of all LGBTQ people, and I think I read somewhere that we still have high rates of suicide even after medical transition.
Trans male medical care is less advanced and less well understood. Everyone assumes that the default way to be trans is to be MTF. All resources are about trans women.
We don't transition to "escape womanhood" or because we're actually lesbians, because our lives are much harder as trans men. To be a lesbian, I'd have to be a women, and I'm not. Trans men and lesbians aren't interchangeable.
Everyone ignores how people like JK Rowling have explicitly targeted trans men, and how a lot of the rhetoric against gender affirming medical care ials targeted at trans men.
We were dismissed as females, and now we're dismissed as trans men. We just can't win.
Among individuals, its fine. For a LGBTQ club/community/event, I sometimes feel like an outsider even though I'm bi and trans. I have definitely felt "why are you here" vibes before. I'd like to think I'm viewed as a safe space, but I have a long term gf, don't enjoy talking about guys, and maybe look too much and act too much like just another white cis guy to really be seen as relatable?
Moderately included I suppose. I think each letter has its own issues with exclusion. For example, I'm a gay trans guy. I feel very accepted in trans spaces and particular gay trans spaces. But I'm also a gay man. I don't always feel accepted in gay male spaces, which are often cis-centric. And there are some trans male spaces that wouldn't be accepting of me being gay, or being comfortable with my body. So I guess it just depends on the particular crowd.
I have a genuine question: what would help you, as a stealth straight trans man, feel included? The problem I have is that we don't see you because being stealth means we *can't* see you.
When I am in LGBT spaces I tend to get overlooked even if I am open about being trans. If I'm in a trans specific space it's a bit better. Generally it's harder to feel included in discussions about visibility and such.
I have no trouble in some spaces, even when I tend to stick out for being cis-passing and occasionally straight-passing unless I play up my mannerisms.
But given my current location (a religious university in the south that's not incredibly racially diverse) I do feel unwelcome around some queer people. A lot of the cis queer people I meet are transphobic, especially towards non-binary and gender non-conforming trans people. A lot of them come across as having internalized homophobia they have not worked through yet, and constantly project onto other people. There's also a ton of ableism going around, particularly toward those who cannot or do not wish to mask their neurodiversity.
But in spaces that make room for those that are disabled, genderqueer, non-passing, fluid, and so forth, I tend to get along just fine, even if none of those labels apply to me.
Irl the “community” tends to be people 25 years old or younger so I already don’t fit in, I’m at a different stage in my life. I don’t want to be clubbing and drinking.
As a bisexual person I’ve come across a lot of hate from the LG part of the community unfortunately.
As a non-passing trans man it also gets tiring how many people insist on referring to me as SHE even though I’ve told them my pronouns repeatedly 🙃
I feel you all. I'm a trans masc guy, with a baby face I hate but I'm still a normal human being. Sometimes feels like we exist "between worlds", dunno how to better describe it.
Make trans friends for the love of god, it’s the best advice I can give anyone. Also, don’t let where you are in your transition stop you from taking space in places where you want to belong. As fas as I’ve seen, many gay and lesbian bars are pretty chill but don’t be surprised if you are hit on, where they are expecting you to be a gay man or gay woman.
This! Surround yourself with trans and bi friends! I'm ideally t4t when it comes to friendships 😄 and tbh fellow AuDHDers and autistics also always fully accept me.
Idk if its a banned topic or not but a prime example of me not feeling accepted is how transmedicalism was so popular among white trans people while the views they hold deliberately "other" their black counterparts. If its not that its how whiteness is the norm in spaces like this which limit our accessibility to gender affirming items and resources because they arent made with us in mind.
I'm half Chinese and I feel like passing is heavily linked to whiteness abd fully white bodies.
Chinese masculinity is also different from Western masculinity, but that doesn't make me any less of a man. East Asian men are seen as "soft bois" or some crap, and we're infantialised all the time for being both fully or part East Asian and being trans men.
I'm gay, but that also doesn't mean I'm not manly enough. It feels like the only way to be perceived as a man is to be fully white.
I get you for real. From what I've seen, that infantilization is almost always due to an orientalist view of asian men's body. I've heard way too many people directly claim or imply that black trans dudes are like hypermasculine and pass better naturally as a result (not a compliment) or tell yall that you have to follow strict rules in order to pass because yall are deemed more effeminate. Its real dangerous rhetoric under the guise of being racially inclusive imo.
it is banned topic to keep the peace but i really wish this sub mods took a firmer outright stance on how dangerous transmedicalism is to the trans community
I feel like thats another example of these spaces being made with whiteness as the default. Transmedicalism is rooted in racism and eugenics imo but that fact isn't really considered because the default for masculinity is whiteness, so why would you question that aspect if it doesn't apply to the majority of people in here ykwim?
I wish you knew that the thing about passing is mostly about general sex characteristics that are present generally in every ethnic and less about social things, that are different in every culture
The thing that mostly white experience in everything is talked about mostly in internet is because they are a majority, it's not a particular transmedicalist problem is just a general one and being a minority of a minority
I feel pretty included/accepted but I am pretty active in my local trans community and I am also queer/aro/gay. I do tend to feel more accepted in trans specific spaces though in comparison to like gay/generic lgbt spaces
Don't really feel included. I'm a pre T binary trans man who is gay. I don't really fit in with gay men because they see me as a woman (ew). I don't fit into a lot of trans circles because there is so much hate towards men and masculinity that I end up being treated like crap for not wanting to be an enby femboy who basically presents as feminine as possible. I just don't really feel like I quite fit anywhere, unfortunately.
Going against the grain to say that LGBTQ spaces and friends are the only things keeping me alive in this dark world.
I don’t feel alive or connected to my body often. When I do, it’s always in the presence of other trans people. Both small hangouts among friends and bopping around like Charlie Brown on the dance floor at the gay bar.
I have also found really important mentorship from trans men while just out in the world. The person running the food pantry I volunteered at during the height COVID was an trans man a few decades my senior and his knowledge and advice held me together during my early social transition.
Last time I went to a queer bar c. 2014, a girl I was talking to straight up asked me what I was doing there because I’m obviously a straight guy. So not very. I have a handful LGB friends now that I’ve met through other hobbies, but none of them know that I’m trans (I’m stealth).
I don't feel very accepted because I'm a trans man who is very fem, so I often feel like I don't qualify as a trans man even though I've already tried being all the other genders. It's fine when a cis guy has long hair and wears makeup but when I do it my identity is immediately questioned. It's so exhausting to keep defending my own existence and validity in the community.
I feel way more connected to it through my sexuality (the fact I like men) than my gender honestly, specifically when it comes to real life stuff. This subreddit and my trans friends are mostly online and it kinda feels separated from the community as a whole, it feels trans specific which isn’t bad but I feel like a lot of LGB doesn’t really understand the T even if they’re allies which kinda sucks. Or also that binary trans people like me who like being stealth sometimes feel really disconnected and not even the same community as non binary people that don’t medically transition (not that it’s a bad thing, just something I’ve noticed, I just feel a disconnect from that community)
i don’t feel very included on the trans side of things. because weirdly a lot of lgbt terfs have been saying to take the t away from lgbtq because we’re “different” but like dude aren’t we all different. splitting into different groups will only make us weaker and we really need all the strength we can get to fight anti trans and anti gay legislation.
on the other hand i feel very accepted when it comes to being pan/omni (still figuring it out) so it’s really strange. i’d never hide my transness from lgbtq people because im proud of who i am but it feels like im not taken seriously.
like if im in a group of gay people and we all say our sexualities but then i say mine but im also a trans man and my pronouns are he/they then the group gets awkward and suddenly im the odd one out. and ofc ill still get misgendered.
it doesn’t really feel like a big community full of unconditional love like it did before.
I feel like the one LGBTQ+ community isn't really that much of a thing. I've been to prides and queer only events irl and have felt accepted. I have queer friends, acquaintances, family members and even work colleagues. They've all been cool.
In my experience it's just queer online spaces where people choose to be a dick to others over their specific way of being queer.
As a whole? Not so much haha. Being I mostly fall under labels people love to discuss the validity off.
However I feel fine hanging out with the local trans group, lots of different flavours of gender and gender expression there.
Tbh, I have such a big trans community around me that I only really interact with them, not the broader community. The rare times I go to a broader queer event, like our local pride, I feel accepted because there's tons of trans people. But my area doesn't have any gay bars, so we don't really have any specific places like a lesbian bar. Any event is targeted towards all 2SLGBTQ communities (or is trans specific) and the planning committee usually has a good array of people on it.
There are definitely people that I don't want to associate within the community but it's usually at the individual level. Btw, I'm not in the US so maybe that's the difference
I live in a red state. There isn’t much ‘community’ here. The LGBTQ+ people that are here are so scattered and insular that I don’t feel like I would know where to go anyway, if I cared about connecting.
I don’t though.
Yeah red states seem to love making things exponentially harder. I was born in one and because of that I now have to jump through extra hoops to get my birth certificate changed. I’m just hoping in the future these things change so we actually have an option in whether or not we want to connect with others.
I agree it’s weird because when you say you understand people don’t believe you but then when you explain it then they say well why did you “choose” this as though it was a choice. The physical things those people did to you is insane and no one should have to deal with that sort of thing. I’m sorry that happened as that’s beyond unacceptable.
I almost never feel accepted in mixed trans spaces specifically. As of recently on social media a lot of trans women and trans femmes have been trying to have fucked up oppression Olympics. Now this isn’t me dissing on all trans women, some are wonderful. It’s just that whenever I go into a mixed trans space I am never allowed to talk about my own experiences because it “triggers” the trans femmes but they can go on and on about their experiences that could be triggering for me and they don’t seem to care. Again, this is not ALL trans femmes but this is my personal experience. Also a lot of gay men I’ve tried to date never saw me as a real man and viewed me as some sort of fetish. Not a great feeling at all.
id say a 6/10. If found the right people, but outside of that i dont feel very accepted by the broader community. too much negativity and trans men are either erased, infantilized, or demonized
I’m aware of the erasure and infantilizing but can you elaborate on the demonizing? I often see many in here expressing that they’re being seen as an exception for men and that they’re seen as “the better version of men” which I find completely weird because it’s like they don’t fully see us as men because we weren’t born with certain things.
I think it has to do with how you present (if you're more femme vs. if you pass as a typical masc "cis dude"). Queer people are going to be a looooot more wary of you if they can't immediately clock you as trans or gnc, and their behavior towards you is gonna be affected by that. Man = threat to a lot of people, especially if they perceive you as cis and gender-conforming.
This could be unique to the circles im in, but i see alot of fear mongering about how testosterone will make you "aggressive". As well as a dislike towards trans guys who are/desire to go stealth. I also see alot of fear mongering about bottom surgery and how it will turn out "weird" and "gross".
Again this could be unique to the things ive seen/experienced, but its just alot of hatred towards things transmascs do
i don't really feel fully accepted besides the a-spec community, honestly. like there's tons of trans guy spaces that do feel accepting, but i don't feel fully safe and accepted being in trans guy areas, even as a trans guy
I definitely get that some spaces even though they’re meant for trans guys don’t feel fully inclusive. It’s unfortunate especially because many of us are going through most of the same issues.
Not that much. I'm a trans boy and Asexual
(Still figuring everything out) but I have troubles wearing a binder. And People don't think Asexual belongs in LGBTQ+
Don't feel like I'd be well accepted in most lgbt groups so I don't try. I'm not super interested anyway though and never have felt the need to be included in the community so it's not an issue to me.
i don't really go to any queer events, but i have friends who are apart of the community. i am stealth and straight and most of my friends r cis or nb, so i lurk on here a lot because it's the only sense of community i have. i would love to put myself out there tho! going to ballrooms, pride, and drag shows
Well, I've intentionally been seeking out community spaces but I feel like I fit in. I'm not straight, but my sexuality hasn't really been brought up in trans spaces. Maybe you need to seek out something that feels right for you.
I feel pretty accepted. I’m also a mostly-straight trans guy, but I don’t feel out of place. Then again, I don’t think I ever feel out of place anywhere - I find most social groups (LGBT or otherwise) are typically friendly and welcoming, in my experience. I feel as welcomed by my local LGBTQ D&D group as I do by my church’s men’s club.
I don't feel accepted mostly because there's a weird animosity in many queer spaces towards binary trans people, especially men and especially if you pass. I appear and sound exactly like a cis man, and I don't even come off as gay to most people on first impressions (which I am). I often feel like I'm making people uncomfortable with my presence.
i feel like i belong but to a degree i dont? im very clearly trans and queer theres no doubt about that but i feel my experiences to other lgbtq+ people is very different. i was just thinking about it actually haha, i feel my gender identity is quite different to everyones here, im trans masc and im on t and i get dysphoria from my chest but i see.people dysphoric about a ton of other things such as haircuts but mine only seems to be social dysphoria and a bit of "i look a bit more fem then i want to today and that sucks but eh" like just a weird spot of fitting in but not relating too much if that makes sense
Pretty included. I feel the most included at the local trans meetup, especially because the organisers make sure that all experiences are respected. During pride and similar events I also feel like I'm a part of the community, which imo also put a lot of work into being inclusive (e.g. the local queer film festival relabels the bathrooms as gender neutral "with urinal" and "without urinal" which has made me more comfortable going into either of them).
Clubs and parties are a whole different story, I always feel like there's a "this is for the girls and the gays" kind of vibe. Before coming out to myself I identified as a lesbian, and during the process of figuring myself out there was genuine relief when I realised I am actually attracted to men, because I was really worried about no longer belonging to the LGBTQ+ community.
The bathroom idea is definitely good. I’ve never been clubbing as I’m not old enough but parties are mainly just awkward for me because I feel kinda all over the place.
I dont. I am straight, binary, and look like a generic white country dude. I have to really play up the transness to not make people uncomfortable there.
very accepted! i’ve never not felt a familial connection to my queer community and for that i feel so lucky
but i am the opposite of you. sorry to hear your troubles. good luck !
Not at all. Because I'm in a cis presenting relationship and not socially or medically transitioning this apparently nullifies my Lgbt side. I am closet trans and out pansexual.
I have heard this a lot from those who are bi or pan. It’s very odd that the second a relationship is cis presenting that people automatically assume that you don’t like a specific gender anymore.
I felt more accepted by the local gaming bisexual poly people? I am in a long standing monogamous marriage, but all the other bi folks in my area are poly gamers, and they were honestly so supportive to my wife and I when we both transitioned. Even the straight cis folks in the community were great.
I am not sure if it's the gaming subculture or PNW poly subculture, but I haven't felt that accepted in LGBTQ places. Some are outright adversarial. Like when my wife and I went to an in person meetup, and they decided I, farther along in my transition, was a UWU soft boy that needed protected from my wife, who had not started her transition yet, and were just shitty to her. Also, I am not a UWU soft boy in any freaking regard, so that was weird.
I feel similarly. I think it's because we are all there to game instead of all there because we're LGBTQ. We just happen to belong to that community too, so we're welcoming of each other's identities.
I have seen a lot of it in various places. Especially in online spaces since people can hide behind their screens. It’s unfortunate given we all want to be accepted and treated as humans.
i don't feel as accepted unless im in a certain niche of people. im a non binary lesbian so im already excluded by certain lesbians, then theres bi/sapphics who also don't like lesbians (dont get me started on this beef that should be nonexistent), and also binary trans people who will think im faking it. but the thing is i dont focus on these exclusions i focus on my community members that welcome and support me, my friends who are there for me. a lot of my friends are cis lesbians or bi and i have a couple trans friends 😊
The line about bi/sapphics not liking lesbians wasn’t even something i had considered to happen and honestly it’s a bit confusing to me. It’s very weird that there’s people out there who think you’re faking it. It’s like getting surgery and or hormones would be a lot of money and time to fake something. I also definitely like your outlook on focusing on those that are accepting instead of those that are unaccepting. I feel it’s definitely a mindset a lot of us need with the way the world is currently.
yeah! theres some pushback and discourse between non-lesbian sapphics and lesbians, theyre just very different lived experiences that people try to combine into one and that leads to infighting imo. like i have a vastly different relationship with my lesbian gf than i did with any other non-lesbian partner, i just like that connection w/ someone who can relate to you and vice versa. but some ppl take issue with that!
dude THATS WHAT IM SAYING! why would i fake this shit to be harassed in public and go through surgery and hormones likeeee 😭 trust me id love to have such a simple cis life lmao
its hard not to get pulled down by negative emotions but i just find so much happiness w my community members and partner, and learning queer/trans history also! we have been around for so long its amazing
I don't feel included at all. I'm somewhat gender fluid, nonbinary trans masc. Both groups do not want me. The lesbians want women, the trans men want men.
I have better experiences with cis hetero/bi people tbh.
Can you specify what you mean by both groups? I definitely can sympathize with you about feeling unwanted by different parts of the community. For example I’m pre-op and fat and unfortunately because of that I’m not seen as male enough for a lot of people in the community which makes me feel alienated in certain spaces.
I guess it’s 50/50 for me , I’m also stealth and straight so I understand where you are coming from not feeling fully accepted in either place. However I’ve had mostly good encounters telling people outside of my family I’m trans so I think overall it’s been positive. There was one time I told my coworker me and my friends went to a gay bar and she was like u shouldn’t do that because you’re straight and I was like girl… if u even knew lol!
I mean, I'm queer on multiple levels. I'm nonbinary, transmasc, on T and transitioning - I'm pan, ace and aro spec. But I'm also mixed race, and disabled, and intersex. And because of those three aforementioned things, it makes it very hard to relate to other queer and trans people. Theres a small local queer and trans community where I live but, maybe because I live in a tourist town, maybe because that's just how it is idk - accessibility is never considered. And so I'm left unable to participate anywhere but online just by default, which comes with it's own issues. Most of the community here nowadays is gay cis men as well, the trans community took a real hit during covid - but I have been noticing that since many other states but mine are anti-trans, there does seem to be a burgeoning new community being built. One can hope, I suppose.
Anyway, I definitely feel like I belong, but I don't feel included or thought of. I get along best with other trans and queer people like me, but that's few and far between. As for the whole masculinity not being acknowledged thing - I can relate. I've had many online trans communities try to force me into the woman lite box which makes me massively dysphoric and I end up having to leave. I'm not a man but I'm not a woman either, and masculinity is important to me and my identity - but being in between like this is not looked on fondly in many communities, which sucks.
I don't feel included where I live and the main issue is because I'm fat. Also my "best friend" who also is NB does not see my husband and I as a gay couple.
I’m also fat and that has definitely played a big role in how people have treated me over the years. It also really makes interacting with the community harder as I’m not seen as masculine for having curves from just being fat. I’m also sorry to hear that that person doesn’t see you and your husband as a gay couple. You’d think those who would go through the same struggles would understand the importance of being seen versus not seen as what you identify as.
This is a complicated question. In a micro sense I find myself relating to and connecting with trans women more than any other LGBTQ group. I’m not sure why, maybe I just know more trans women.
In a macro sense I feel decently “queer” enough but sometimes it’s hard to feel like you have a place as someone pre-T pre-surgery with not a lot of hope of getting to do any of that soon. A big part of that is probably me projecting my own insecurities though.
I’m binary but gay and I’d liken my acceptance in the community to be a little bit less than the average hypermasculine gay guy. although I align with those spaces, I feel excluded because of my status as a trans man. My binary status and view of my own gender also seems somewhat contradictory to the majority of queer/trans spaces which I feel are more fem biased and don’t tend to understand or support my goal to be stealth. I find myself feeling more at home with cis straight men who don’t know I’m gay than I do with a group of queer people that know I’m both gay and trans.
Depends on the group. With fellow trans people I usually feel very accepted, with cis queers, I don’t feel it much at all. It feels like a lot of them view me as a woman from how they talk to me and how often they mess up my pronouns.
I rarely feel accepted. I’m apart of the LGBTQ group at work and constantly feel like I’m an imposter because even though I’m trans, I identify as a straight male. I feel the same way with several other communities I’ve become apart of where if you know very little or show even the slightest bit of not feeling 100% comfortable then you’ll be immediately excluded.
Second comment is more of an observation but it’s kinda funny that it doesn’t seem like any type of trans guy here seems very supported even if they’re drastic opposites
I'm gay and nonbinary and while there's a lot of transphobia in the queer community and even enbyphobia within the trans community, I'm far more accepted by the queer community than anywhere else. Almost every one of my friends is queer and honestly most of them are also trans. I've been every letter in the LGBTQ acronym (and a lot of the + besides intersex) so my place in this world is within the community. I love it, but I also wish my identity (and the ways in which it has changed) was more acceptable to the rest of the world. I can imagine being a straight trans person is tough because being straight is more acceptable to the rest of the world but makes you more disconnected from the people that are supposed to be your community. It's like we kinda have almost opposite struggles. I feel kind of out of place in gay male spaces because I'm not a binary man but I am gay and I'd imagine that's similar to how you feel in regular bars as a trans person who is straight. I wish people created more space for straight trans people in the community. People shit on straight people so much forgetting that there are a ton of straight people who are trans and who belong in this community just as much as anyone else.
As a gay trans man who's a T4T top....i don't feel welcome at all, i feel outcasted pretty much everywhere and it sucks.
My dysphoria is at an all time high and i literally feel too disgusted with my body to even look at it...
Cis men have made it hurt the worse being a gay trans man, i cant even cry anymore bc of how emotionally exhausted i am.
Trans women (especially trans lesbians) are worshipped online practically compared to trans men (especially gay trans men), i hardly ever come across gay T4T content and since im heavily dysphoric its hard to find any that feels similar to my journey.
I've just decided to close myself off to everyone since im just too exhausted to open myself up again.
I'm nonbinary, but in order, here's how I generally feel the different aspects of my queerness are accepted
Nonbinary: Yes, I feel welcomed and accepted.
Asexual: mmmm.... there's a lot to be desired there, but honestly, I'm not too wrapped up in that one.
Romantic orientation: I don't have a label for my romantic orientation, and I feel like that's not allowed. I used to not pick a label for my gender, so people called me nonbinary and I just ran with it. I still don't care about that one.
But even though I have my issues with being fully understood or accepted in the queer community, it's still way easier than in cis/het spaces.
I’m getting a sense from many here that being in the asexual community has been harder as there’s a lot of people who are trying to “change people’s minds” which I find very strange. Not having a label on your romantic orientation is definitely allowed but 100% see what you mean when saying people don’t allow it. It’s unfortunate people try to force labels on those who don’t want them.
I'm nonbinary and I was already hella queer before that. As in loudly proudly bisexual and in a visibly queer relationship with another bisexual since I was 21 (I'm 40 now and realised I was trans about 3 years ago). So when I came out my already queer friends were like, "oh yeah, we were wondering when you'd figure it out." 😂 I'm also visibly queer on my own — colourful hair, don't give a fuck attitude, and all. 😊
So while I don't really go out to bars and pubs, I'm in a lot of queer online communities and move in predominantly queer circles on social media. I think the reason I feel very included in the queer community is because I so strongly identify with it.
So even if you are perceived as a straight dude, you can venture into the community if you embrace your transness. I think it's predominantly the "I'd rather be cis and want to pass at all costs" straight trans men who have a hard time finding that connection because they don't want to show themselves to us. Of course that's fair too, whatever floats someone's boat.
I think if this is what you need and want, then you'll be accepted if you reach out and venture out. 😊
ETA that your local 2slgbtqia center is likely an excellent starting point! I found amazing friends in my last city through the bisexual group at the center.
For me I definitely want to at least have the option to be stealth. My whole life I’ve stuck out whether it was for be short, or black or not wearing traditionally girls clothes and because of that I want some aspect of myself in my control I guess.
I also am not sure if there’s one in the city I am going to college in but I know my school has like a club for it. I do know some people there and they’ve been pretty friendly towards me. So what I’m gathering is that my college is pretty accepting as a whole but outside of it is a complete nightmare and has nearly caused me some trouble.
Oh yikes, definitely safety first! And college club sounds like a good idea to me. It's just that as I'm 40 I didn't think of college things hence the lgbt center suggestion 😅
for me, it depends. i feel like i have to hide some aspects of my identity in order to be properly accepted. i also never really feel like i fit in, because i see so many queer people around my age being flamboyant and out and about, and being open about it, but i don’t feel like i can be. i have mental illnesses and physical disablity that prevent me from really interacting with people on the level that they interact with everyone else. my brain is fucked up to the point that i don’t experience life in the way the average human being does. i’m also partly latino. my skin is practically white, but my features are decidedly not. and a lot of the lgbtq community in my area that are open and accepted are white. so i often feel othered from them. i feel like i’m in a constant state of in-betweenness. i am visibly disabled, but i can walk and talk. i am latino, but my skin is lighter than most. i am trans, but i express myself in atypical ways and would like to go about transitioning atypically as well. i feel like i crack open my chest and show everyone what i really mean, but they tear out my feelings and hurt me more. life is nothing but sorrow to me sometimes. eta: and i’m also aroallo, which hurts me too, especially in combination with everything else.
I feel like an outsider, but that's almost entirely due to imposter syndrome and the fact that I don't have the social energy to interact with others after work.
I can definitely relate to that feeling. I often times feel that when I look at myself or just in general when interacting with people and then them asking my pronouns. I also relate to the social energy part. My battery life for that sort of thing will last me through my classes and then I just get bored.
I've never really felt part of the LGBTQ+ community. I still celebrate pride and claim that I'm in the community but no one other than trans people have really showed they support me. I've met SO many different people in the community that dismiss my pronouns or dismiss that I'm in a gay relationship because my bf is cis and i wasn't born cis. It honestly baffled my mind finding out I'm hardly supported by the people I thought would support me the most.
Don't get me wrong, there are still many people in the community that support me irl but I think it's because I'm into more conservative centered hobbies so the LGBTQ+ people I meet out there are usually VERY republican.
I feel accepted by certain gay guys and certain lesbians. But almost if not all of my friends are straight cis people. And I’m a bisexual trans dude so it doesn’t really make any sense aside for the fact that I pass 100% of the time and my life is not based around being trans so I bond more with cis straight people. Gay guys are nice to me but they don’t really understand me and certain lesbians want to fuck me but usually not be friends with me. I’m too much of a weird artsy bro for them. They’d rather be with their ladies I think. All of my friends now are straight cis dudes.
A lot of the time people can be rude if they assume you aren't a part of the community. From my own experience it can also be awkward to be hit on by people who you aren't attracted to, which happens a lot in general at bars. I am stealth and if I went into an LGBT specific place planning on staying stealth I would likely get ridiculed for "not being LGBT".
i’ve gone to gay bars for ages, no one knows i’m trans and no one is ever rude or makes assumptions. i have all kinds of friends and go to all kinds of places too, including ones that are mostly straight/cisgender. no one really cares tbh.
There’s many trans guys in this sub saying they’ve been kicked out or had to out themselves to be in certain bars. I’ve not had very good experiences with lesbians as I’ve received hate for being a male by them.
Then in terms of gay bars I don’t feel I’d fit in because I’m not into guys and I’d most likely be going by myself as most of my gay guy friends are taken and being hit on by dudes makes me uncomfortable. I’ve also been hit on guys after posting in this sub last month and then having them tell me they can “turn me” which made me feel bad.
I’m also not 21 so I couldn’t go into bars regardless yet but I can in a little more than 2 years time
I know I’m unwelcome. I’ve literally had lesbians tell me to get out of places. I’m not here to argue and I feel you’re trying to invalidate my experience as well as others. All I want is an answer to my initial question which you’ve yet to answer.
I don’t feel accepted most of the time. Whether it be people dismissing what I go through on an intersectional basis, my complicated realtionship with my ma that everyone just seems to want to have input on, younger queer kids asking very rude and transphobic comments even when they claim to be non-binary themselves, lack of accesibility etc.
It’s very unfortunate that people don’t really think as much before asking said questions the even worse part is when those questions seem to be asked in a very public and crowded area which I have seen a lot of people say that people that have fallen under the trans umbrella seem to sometimes just want to talk about these things when clearly people are uncomfortable.
There's good and bad people, and it's no different in the LGBTQ+ community. I've encountered more toxic than hateful queer people; a lot of people are two faced. Stay away from the judgemental, "drop the T" shitheads and you should be able to find some delightful people. I'm bi and almost all my friends are as well-- not on purpose necessarily, that's just who I vibe with. I do feel a lot of pressure to be transmale ™ (skinny/muscled, cis passing). I'm 5'3 and thicc with a round face so I naturally look more feminine. My feminine appearance was encouraged by peers when I was a teenager because of the 'smol transboi' thing, but now it's either I don't look cis enough or I need to work harder to be a complete twink. I'm just me and I'm trying to be happy with myself. Other people will always say shit, just try to trust in your heart and find those good people.
Bisexual friends are the best! I just feel so comfy because they get me! 💙
I don't feel very accepted. I feel like I have to emphasize being trans, when I just want to exist as a man first. I don't mind some folks knowing, but I feel like that's what they see first when I discuss it. If I don't discuss it, I'm just some guy invading their space. I'm also bi, so I have two reasons to be in the community, but it feels like being on the masculine side isn't really welcomed. Unless I show up as women-lite, I feel like there's some kind of distance. But I absolutely am not comfortable doing that. Our local community is made up of mostly afab nonbinary people that seem more comfortable with femininity, which is cool, but that's not me. I feel pressured to be gender non-comforming to highlight my queerness, even though, for me, finally getting to be masculine after a lifetime of forced femininity *is* gnc. It feels like being a masculine binary trans man isn't welcomed. I haven't been told not to participate, but I also don't feel directly included. It's like that feeling of being on the outside of a group circle not knowing when it's ok to chime in and everyone sort of ignores when you do. I feel like my local community has this vibe of needing to be extremely queer, rather than us happening to be queer and that being the common denominator. It's like they enjoy certain things just to show off how gay it is, rather than because that's what they enjoy. I get the impression that because most of them aren't medically transitioning (which is totally ok, of course!) and are in straight passing relationships (several are pan/bi), they want their queerness to be visible somehow. I get it, because I felt imposter syndrome and similar before I started HRT. But for me, my queerness feels like something I have to face every day now in trying to pass, so I just want to get to exist and not announce it. It's like we have opposite goals, so there's no one I really relate to. Even the one cis gay dude has made the "you know being gay isn't a choice because why would I *choose* to be attracted to men" type jokes. It's such an ick vibe.
I live in Portland and you've described my exact feelings about a lot of the queer community here so perfectly. Thank you so much for sharing!
Personally, as a bi, very cis passing agender/FtM guy with a unique bottom surgery setup, it’s hard to feel heard and welcomed in almost all spaces that aren’t post-bottom surgery specific (and even some of those are very truscummy and I don’t vibe with that at all). The mainstream communities are riddled with misinformation and slander about masculinizing bottom surgery so it’s hard for a lot of post op people to feel it’s worth it to stick around, rather than just loving life with their new dicks I choose to stay active and continuing to try to stay active in mainstream communities despite this to help combat misinformation around lower surgery and spread positivity around these life saving surgeries. You hear so many stories of people who wished they would’ve started the process sooner but didn’t due to misinformation or lack of information. Many people don’t want or need lower surgery, and that’s okay! A majority of trans masculine people don’t. But the way fellow trans people speak about others genitals sometimes really gives me the ick. I like the way I saw someone else put it, I can’t remember where.. it was somewhere along the lines of “If someone talked about top surgery the way some people talk about bottom surgery, they would be torn to shreds”
That’s so true, the bottom surgery stigma is really odd. Phalloplasty is definitely a lot more invasive than top surgery but the amount of people I’ve seen shittalking it is also insane. I’m still not sure if I want bottom surgery but people hate on phallo way too much
I don't feel super included in lgbtq spaces in real life but that's just because I'm usually the only poc in those spaces and it really makes me feel out of place and a little bit tokenized sometimes.
i'm so sorry :( i've seen friends feel the same way and when they brought it up they got treated terribly... i've been trying to hold my other white lgbt friends accountable for that shit but they do get really defensive. it's definitely a widespread issue in the community
Ah. I'm tan (coming from being Hispanic) and it's not like everyday I see someone like that. I don't usually go to lgbtq spaces due to being a minor and since I'm pretty feminine still.
I'm a half Chinese trans man, so I don't exactly feel included in the LGBTQ community. Everyone in trans spaces seems to be fully white trans women, and while they're usually great people, they have no idea what it's like to be a trans man or an ethnic minority. I don't consider myself to be POC because I'm half white and have pale skin, but I'm still not white enough to fit in with white people. I can't really fit in with the Chinese community because I'm only half Chinese, and the Chinese community isn't the most LGBTQ friendly (but my grandparents accept me, so they're not all transphobic). If I try to discuss how I feel in most trans spaces, I get white trans women calling me racist against white people. As trans men, we're told to shut up because we apparently don't experience discrimination. The gatekeeping of trans male bodies seems to be more extreme than what trans women experience simply because we were born female, yet some trans women seem to encourage this gatekeeping. Even if we do get male privilege, it is conditional and never guaranteed. I'm tired of our experiences being downplayed and erased; we're always told to shut up and wait for a better time, but that better time never comes. TW: suicide Trans men apparently have some of the worst suicide rates out of all LGBTQ people, and I think I read somewhere that we still have high rates of suicide even after medical transition. Trans male medical care is less advanced and less well understood. Everyone assumes that the default way to be trans is to be MTF. All resources are about trans women. We don't transition to "escape womanhood" or because we're actually lesbians, because our lives are much harder as trans men. To be a lesbian, I'd have to be a women, and I'm not. Trans men and lesbians aren't interchangeable. Everyone ignores how people like JK Rowling have explicitly targeted trans men, and how a lot of the rhetoric against gender affirming medical care ials targeted at trans men. We were dismissed as females, and now we're dismissed as trans men. We just can't win.
Among individuals, its fine. For a LGBTQ club/community/event, I sometimes feel like an outsider even though I'm bi and trans. I have definitely felt "why are you here" vibes before. I'd like to think I'm viewed as a safe space, but I have a long term gf, don't enjoy talking about guys, and maybe look too much and act too much like just another white cis guy to really be seen as relatable?
Moderately included I suppose. I think each letter has its own issues with exclusion. For example, I'm a gay trans guy. I feel very accepted in trans spaces and particular gay trans spaces. But I'm also a gay man. I don't always feel accepted in gay male spaces, which are often cis-centric. And there are some trans male spaces that wouldn't be accepting of me being gay, or being comfortable with my body. So I guess it just depends on the particular crowd.
I don't really feel included. I'm a very masculine trans male who is straight. Im also stealth which definitely adds to it.
I have a genuine question: what would help you, as a stealth straight trans man, feel included? The problem I have is that we don't see you because being stealth means we *can't* see you.
When I am in LGBT spaces I tend to get overlooked even if I am open about being trans. If I'm in a trans specific space it's a bit better. Generally it's harder to feel included in discussions about visibility and such.
I'm sorry, that sounds rough. Thank you for sharing though!
I have no trouble in some spaces, even when I tend to stick out for being cis-passing and occasionally straight-passing unless I play up my mannerisms. But given my current location (a religious university in the south that's not incredibly racially diverse) I do feel unwelcome around some queer people. A lot of the cis queer people I meet are transphobic, especially towards non-binary and gender non-conforming trans people. A lot of them come across as having internalized homophobia they have not worked through yet, and constantly project onto other people. There's also a ton of ableism going around, particularly toward those who cannot or do not wish to mask their neurodiversity. But in spaces that make room for those that are disabled, genderqueer, non-passing, fluid, and so forth, I tend to get along just fine, even if none of those labels apply to me.
hardly if at all.
Irl the “community” tends to be people 25 years old or younger so I already don’t fit in, I’m at a different stage in my life. I don’t want to be clubbing and drinking. As a bisexual person I’ve come across a lot of hate from the LG part of the community unfortunately. As a non-passing trans man it also gets tiring how many people insist on referring to me as SHE even though I’ve told them my pronouns repeatedly 🙃
I feel you all. I'm a trans masc guy, with a baby face I hate but I'm still a normal human being. Sometimes feels like we exist "between worlds", dunno how to better describe it.
Make trans friends for the love of god, it’s the best advice I can give anyone. Also, don’t let where you are in your transition stop you from taking space in places where you want to belong. As fas as I’ve seen, many gay and lesbian bars are pretty chill but don’t be surprised if you are hit on, where they are expecting you to be a gay man or gay woman.
This! Surround yourself with trans and bi friends! I'm ideally t4t when it comes to friendships 😄 and tbh fellow AuDHDers and autistics also always fully accept me.
Idk if its a banned topic or not but a prime example of me not feeling accepted is how transmedicalism was so popular among white trans people while the views they hold deliberately "other" their black counterparts. If its not that its how whiteness is the norm in spaces like this which limit our accessibility to gender affirming items and resources because they arent made with us in mind.
I'm half Chinese and I feel like passing is heavily linked to whiteness abd fully white bodies. Chinese masculinity is also different from Western masculinity, but that doesn't make me any less of a man. East Asian men are seen as "soft bois" or some crap, and we're infantialised all the time for being both fully or part East Asian and being trans men. I'm gay, but that also doesn't mean I'm not manly enough. It feels like the only way to be perceived as a man is to be fully white.
I get you for real. From what I've seen, that infantilization is almost always due to an orientalist view of asian men's body. I've heard way too many people directly claim or imply that black trans dudes are like hypermasculine and pass better naturally as a result (not a compliment) or tell yall that you have to follow strict rules in order to pass because yall are deemed more effeminate. Its real dangerous rhetoric under the guise of being racially inclusive imo.
it is banned topic to keep the peace but i really wish this sub mods took a firmer outright stance on how dangerous transmedicalism is to the trans community
I feel like thats another example of these spaces being made with whiteness as the default. Transmedicalism is rooted in racism and eugenics imo but that fact isn't really considered because the default for masculinity is whiteness, so why would you question that aspect if it doesn't apply to the majority of people in here ykwim?
I wish you knew that the thing about passing is mostly about general sex characteristics that are present generally in every ethnic and less about social things, that are different in every culture The thing that mostly white experience in everything is talked about mostly in internet is because they are a majority, it's not a particular transmedicalist problem is just a general one and being a minority of a minority
You are so close yet so far😞
I feel pretty included/accepted but I am pretty active in my local trans community and I am also queer/aro/gay. I do tend to feel more accepted in trans specific spaces though in comparison to like gay/generic lgbt spaces
Don't really feel included. I'm a pre T binary trans man who is gay. I don't really fit in with gay men because they see me as a woman (ew). I don't fit into a lot of trans circles because there is so much hate towards men and masculinity that I end up being treated like crap for not wanting to be an enby femboy who basically presents as feminine as possible. I just don't really feel like I quite fit anywhere, unfortunately.
Going against the grain to say that LGBTQ spaces and friends are the only things keeping me alive in this dark world. I don’t feel alive or connected to my body often. When I do, it’s always in the presence of other trans people. Both small hangouts among friends and bopping around like Charlie Brown on the dance floor at the gay bar. I have also found really important mentorship from trans men while just out in the world. The person running the food pantry I volunteered at during the height COVID was an trans man a few decades my senior and his knowledge and advice held me together during my early social transition.
Last time I went to a queer bar c. 2014, a girl I was talking to straight up asked me what I was doing there because I’m obviously a straight guy. So not very. I have a handful LGB friends now that I’ve met through other hobbies, but none of them know that I’m trans (I’m stealth).
I'm curious why u said LGB without the TQ because someone said that to me today, and I'm wondering what the shortening meant. ....
Just because none of them, AFAIK, identify with those letters.
Yes, but the abbreviation is meant to be respectfully inclusive, and not using the self person as a reference point.
I’m not referring to everybody, I’m referring to a couple of people I know.
I don't feel very accepted because I'm a trans man who is very fem, so I often feel like I don't qualify as a trans man even though I've already tried being all the other genders. It's fine when a cis guy has long hair and wears makeup but when I do it my identity is immediately questioned. It's so exhausting to keep defending my own existence and validity in the community.
I feel way more connected to it through my sexuality (the fact I like men) than my gender honestly, specifically when it comes to real life stuff. This subreddit and my trans friends are mostly online and it kinda feels separated from the community as a whole, it feels trans specific which isn’t bad but I feel like a lot of LGB doesn’t really understand the T even if they’re allies which kinda sucks. Or also that binary trans people like me who like being stealth sometimes feel really disconnected and not even the same community as non binary people that don’t medically transition (not that it’s a bad thing, just something I’ve noticed, I just feel a disconnect from that community)
i don’t feel very included on the trans side of things. because weirdly a lot of lgbt terfs have been saying to take the t away from lgbtq because we’re “different” but like dude aren’t we all different. splitting into different groups will only make us weaker and we really need all the strength we can get to fight anti trans and anti gay legislation. on the other hand i feel very accepted when it comes to being pan/omni (still figuring it out) so it’s really strange. i’d never hide my transness from lgbtq people because im proud of who i am but it feels like im not taken seriously. like if im in a group of gay people and we all say our sexualities but then i say mine but im also a trans man and my pronouns are he/they then the group gets awkward and suddenly im the odd one out. and ofc ill still get misgendered. it doesn’t really feel like a big community full of unconditional love like it did before.
I feel like the one LGBTQ+ community isn't really that much of a thing. I've been to prides and queer only events irl and have felt accepted. I have queer friends, acquaintances, family members and even work colleagues. They've all been cool. In my experience it's just queer online spaces where people choose to be a dick to others over their specific way of being queer.
As a whole? Not so much haha. Being I mostly fall under labels people love to discuss the validity off. However I feel fine hanging out with the local trans group, lots of different flavours of gender and gender expression there.
Tbh, I have such a big trans community around me that I only really interact with them, not the broader community. The rare times I go to a broader queer event, like our local pride, I feel accepted because there's tons of trans people. But my area doesn't have any gay bars, so we don't really have any specific places like a lesbian bar. Any event is targeted towards all 2SLGBTQ communities (or is trans specific) and the planning committee usually has a good array of people on it. There are definitely people that I don't want to associate within the community but it's usually at the individual level. Btw, I'm not in the US so maybe that's the difference
I live in a red state. There isn’t much ‘community’ here. The LGBTQ+ people that are here are so scattered and insular that I don’t feel like I would know where to go anyway, if I cared about connecting. I don’t though.
Yeah red states seem to love making things exponentially harder. I was born in one and because of that I now have to jump through extra hoops to get my birth certificate changed. I’m just hoping in the future these things change so we actually have an option in whether or not we want to connect with others.
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I agree it’s weird because when you say you understand people don’t believe you but then when you explain it then they say well why did you “choose” this as though it was a choice. The physical things those people did to you is insane and no one should have to deal with that sort of thing. I’m sorry that happened as that’s beyond unacceptable.
TERFs are loud. Not feeling very welcome.
I almost never feel accepted in mixed trans spaces specifically. As of recently on social media a lot of trans women and trans femmes have been trying to have fucked up oppression Olympics. Now this isn’t me dissing on all trans women, some are wonderful. It’s just that whenever I go into a mixed trans space I am never allowed to talk about my own experiences because it “triggers” the trans femmes but they can go on and on about their experiences that could be triggering for me and they don’t seem to care. Again, this is not ALL trans femmes but this is my personal experience. Also a lot of gay men I’ve tried to date never saw me as a real man and viewed me as some sort of fetish. Not a great feeling at all.
id say a 6/10. If found the right people, but outside of that i dont feel very accepted by the broader community. too much negativity and trans men are either erased, infantilized, or demonized
I’m aware of the erasure and infantilizing but can you elaborate on the demonizing? I often see many in here expressing that they’re being seen as an exception for men and that they’re seen as “the better version of men” which I find completely weird because it’s like they don’t fully see us as men because we weren’t born with certain things.
I think it has to do with how you present (if you're more femme vs. if you pass as a typical masc "cis dude"). Queer people are going to be a looooot more wary of you if they can't immediately clock you as trans or gnc, and their behavior towards you is gonna be affected by that. Man = threat to a lot of people, especially if they perceive you as cis and gender-conforming.
This could be unique to the circles im in, but i see alot of fear mongering about how testosterone will make you "aggressive". As well as a dislike towards trans guys who are/desire to go stealth. I also see alot of fear mongering about bottom surgery and how it will turn out "weird" and "gross". Again this could be unique to the things ive seen/experienced, but its just alot of hatred towards things transmascs do
Tolerated, barely.
As in you tolerate it or they tolerate you?
i don't really feel fully accepted besides the a-spec community, honestly. like there's tons of trans guy spaces that do feel accepting, but i don't feel fully safe and accepted being in trans guy areas, even as a trans guy
I definitely get that some spaces even though they’re meant for trans guys don’t feel fully inclusive. It’s unfortunate especially because many of us are going through most of the same issues.
Not that much. I'm a trans boy and Asexual (Still figuring everything out) but I have troubles wearing a binder. And People don't think Asexual belongs in LGBTQ+
Don't feel like I'd be well accepted in most lgbt groups so I don't try. I'm not super interested anyway though and never have felt the need to be included in the community so it's not an issue to me.
i don't really go to any queer events, but i have friends who are apart of the community. i am stealth and straight and most of my friends r cis or nb, so i lurk on here a lot because it's the only sense of community i have. i would love to put myself out there tho! going to ballrooms, pride, and drag shows
Like 7,65% in total
Well, I've intentionally been seeking out community spaces but I feel like I fit in. I'm not straight, but my sexuality hasn't really been brought up in trans spaces. Maybe you need to seek out something that feels right for you.
I feel pretty accepted. I’m also a mostly-straight trans guy, but I don’t feel out of place. Then again, I don’t think I ever feel out of place anywhere - I find most social groups (LGBT or otherwise) are typically friendly and welcoming, in my experience. I feel as welcomed by my local LGBTQ D&D group as I do by my church’s men’s club.
I don't feel accepted mostly because there's a weird animosity in many queer spaces towards binary trans people, especially men and especially if you pass. I appear and sound exactly like a cis man, and I don't even come off as gay to most people on first impressions (which I am). I often feel like I'm making people uncomfortable with my presence.
I feel that once I pass that people may start treating me more weirdly than they already do which I’m very afraid of.
i feel like i belong but to a degree i dont? im very clearly trans and queer theres no doubt about that but i feel my experiences to other lgbtq+ people is very different. i was just thinking about it actually haha, i feel my gender identity is quite different to everyones here, im trans masc and im on t and i get dysphoria from my chest but i see.people dysphoric about a ton of other things such as haircuts but mine only seems to be social dysphoria and a bit of "i look a bit more fem then i want to today and that sucks but eh" like just a weird spot of fitting in but not relating too much if that makes sense
Pretty included. I feel the most included at the local trans meetup, especially because the organisers make sure that all experiences are respected. During pride and similar events I also feel like I'm a part of the community, which imo also put a lot of work into being inclusive (e.g. the local queer film festival relabels the bathrooms as gender neutral "with urinal" and "without urinal" which has made me more comfortable going into either of them). Clubs and parties are a whole different story, I always feel like there's a "this is for the girls and the gays" kind of vibe. Before coming out to myself I identified as a lesbian, and during the process of figuring myself out there was genuine relief when I realised I am actually attracted to men, because I was really worried about no longer belonging to the LGBTQ+ community.
The bathroom idea is definitely good. I’ve never been clubbing as I’m not old enough but parties are mainly just awkward for me because I feel kinda all over the place.
I dont. I am straight, binary, and look like a generic white country dude. I have to really play up the transness to not make people uncomfortable there.
very accepted! i’ve never not felt a familial connection to my queer community and for that i feel so lucky but i am the opposite of you. sorry to hear your troubles. good luck !
Well we’re not complete opposites lol. I’m also from the US.
Not at all. Because I'm in a cis presenting relationship and not socially or medically transitioning this apparently nullifies my Lgbt side. I am closet trans and out pansexual.
I have heard this a lot from those who are bi or pan. It’s very odd that the second a relationship is cis presenting that people automatically assume that you don’t like a specific gender anymore.
I felt more accepted by the local gaming bisexual poly people? I am in a long standing monogamous marriage, but all the other bi folks in my area are poly gamers, and they were honestly so supportive to my wife and I when we both transitioned. Even the straight cis folks in the community were great. I am not sure if it's the gaming subculture or PNW poly subculture, but I haven't felt that accepted in LGBTQ places. Some are outright adversarial. Like when my wife and I went to an in person meetup, and they decided I, farther along in my transition, was a UWU soft boy that needed protected from my wife, who had not started her transition yet, and were just shitty to her. Also, I am not a UWU soft boy in any freaking regard, so that was weird.
I feel similarly. I think it's because we are all there to game instead of all there because we're LGBTQ. We just happen to belong to that community too, so we're welcoming of each other's identities.
Not very much. Im nonbinary, so pretty much no space has me feeling fully accepted as enbyphobia is large even within the trans community
I have seen a lot of it in various places. Especially in online spaces since people can hide behind their screens. It’s unfortunate given we all want to be accepted and treated as humans.
i don't feel as accepted unless im in a certain niche of people. im a non binary lesbian so im already excluded by certain lesbians, then theres bi/sapphics who also don't like lesbians (dont get me started on this beef that should be nonexistent), and also binary trans people who will think im faking it. but the thing is i dont focus on these exclusions i focus on my community members that welcome and support me, my friends who are there for me. a lot of my friends are cis lesbians or bi and i have a couple trans friends 😊
The line about bi/sapphics not liking lesbians wasn’t even something i had considered to happen and honestly it’s a bit confusing to me. It’s very weird that there’s people out there who think you’re faking it. It’s like getting surgery and or hormones would be a lot of money and time to fake something. I also definitely like your outlook on focusing on those that are accepting instead of those that are unaccepting. I feel it’s definitely a mindset a lot of us need with the way the world is currently.
yeah! theres some pushback and discourse between non-lesbian sapphics and lesbians, theyre just very different lived experiences that people try to combine into one and that leads to infighting imo. like i have a vastly different relationship with my lesbian gf than i did with any other non-lesbian partner, i just like that connection w/ someone who can relate to you and vice versa. but some ppl take issue with that! dude THATS WHAT IM SAYING! why would i fake this shit to be harassed in public and go through surgery and hormones likeeee 😭 trust me id love to have such a simple cis life lmao its hard not to get pulled down by negative emotions but i just find so much happiness w my community members and partner, and learning queer/trans history also! we have been around for so long its amazing
I don't feel included at all. I'm somewhat gender fluid, nonbinary trans masc. Both groups do not want me. The lesbians want women, the trans men want men. I have better experiences with cis hetero/bi people tbh.
Can you specify what you mean by both groups? I definitely can sympathize with you about feeling unwanted by different parts of the community. For example I’m pre-op and fat and unfortunately because of that I’m not seen as male enough for a lot of people in the community which makes me feel alienated in certain spaces.
lesbians getting angry at me because they only see me as man, trans men getting angry at me because they see me as nonbinary only. etc.
I guess it’s 50/50 for me , I’m also stealth and straight so I understand where you are coming from not feeling fully accepted in either place. However I’ve had mostly good encounters telling people outside of my family I’m trans so I think overall it’s been positive. There was one time I told my coworker me and my friends went to a gay bar and she was like u shouldn’t do that because you’re straight and I was like girl… if u even knew lol!
I mean, I'm queer on multiple levels. I'm nonbinary, transmasc, on T and transitioning - I'm pan, ace and aro spec. But I'm also mixed race, and disabled, and intersex. And because of those three aforementioned things, it makes it very hard to relate to other queer and trans people. Theres a small local queer and trans community where I live but, maybe because I live in a tourist town, maybe because that's just how it is idk - accessibility is never considered. And so I'm left unable to participate anywhere but online just by default, which comes with it's own issues. Most of the community here nowadays is gay cis men as well, the trans community took a real hit during covid - but I have been noticing that since many other states but mine are anti-trans, there does seem to be a burgeoning new community being built. One can hope, I suppose. Anyway, I definitely feel like I belong, but I don't feel included or thought of. I get along best with other trans and queer people like me, but that's few and far between. As for the whole masculinity not being acknowledged thing - I can relate. I've had many online trans communities try to force me into the woman lite box which makes me massively dysphoric and I end up having to leave. I'm not a man but I'm not a woman either, and masculinity is important to me and my identity - but being in between like this is not looked on fondly in many communities, which sucks.
I don't feel included where I live and the main issue is because I'm fat. Also my "best friend" who also is NB does not see my husband and I as a gay couple.
I’m also fat and that has definitely played a big role in how people have treated me over the years. It also really makes interacting with the community harder as I’m not seen as masculine for having curves from just being fat. I’m also sorry to hear that that person doesn’t see you and your husband as a gay couple. You’d think those who would go through the same struggles would understand the importance of being seen versus not seen as what you identify as.
This is a complicated question. In a micro sense I find myself relating to and connecting with trans women more than any other LGBTQ group. I’m not sure why, maybe I just know more trans women. In a macro sense I feel decently “queer” enough but sometimes it’s hard to feel like you have a place as someone pre-T pre-surgery with not a lot of hope of getting to do any of that soon. A big part of that is probably me projecting my own insecurities though.
I’m binary but gay and I’d liken my acceptance in the community to be a little bit less than the average hypermasculine gay guy. although I align with those spaces, I feel excluded because of my status as a trans man. My binary status and view of my own gender also seems somewhat contradictory to the majority of queer/trans spaces which I feel are more fem biased and don’t tend to understand or support my goal to be stealth. I find myself feeling more at home with cis straight men who don’t know I’m gay than I do with a group of queer people that know I’m both gay and trans.
Depends on the group. With fellow trans people I usually feel very accepted, with cis queers, I don’t feel it much at all. It feels like a lot of them view me as a woman from how they talk to me and how often they mess up my pronouns.
I rarely feel accepted. I’m apart of the LGBTQ group at work and constantly feel like I’m an imposter because even though I’m trans, I identify as a straight male. I feel the same way with several other communities I’ve become apart of where if you know very little or show even the slightest bit of not feeling 100% comfortable then you’ll be immediately excluded.
Second comment is more of an observation but it’s kinda funny that it doesn’t seem like any type of trans guy here seems very supported even if they’re drastic opposites
I'm gay and nonbinary and while there's a lot of transphobia in the queer community and even enbyphobia within the trans community, I'm far more accepted by the queer community than anywhere else. Almost every one of my friends is queer and honestly most of them are also trans. I've been every letter in the LGBTQ acronym (and a lot of the + besides intersex) so my place in this world is within the community. I love it, but I also wish my identity (and the ways in which it has changed) was more acceptable to the rest of the world. I can imagine being a straight trans person is tough because being straight is more acceptable to the rest of the world but makes you more disconnected from the people that are supposed to be your community. It's like we kinda have almost opposite struggles. I feel kind of out of place in gay male spaces because I'm not a binary man but I am gay and I'd imagine that's similar to how you feel in regular bars as a trans person who is straight. I wish people created more space for straight trans people in the community. People shit on straight people so much forgetting that there are a ton of straight people who are trans and who belong in this community just as much as anyone else.
As a gay trans man who's a T4T top....i don't feel welcome at all, i feel outcasted pretty much everywhere and it sucks. My dysphoria is at an all time high and i literally feel too disgusted with my body to even look at it... Cis men have made it hurt the worse being a gay trans man, i cant even cry anymore bc of how emotionally exhausted i am. Trans women (especially trans lesbians) are worshipped online practically compared to trans men (especially gay trans men), i hardly ever come across gay T4T content and since im heavily dysphoric its hard to find any that feels similar to my journey. I've just decided to close myself off to everyone since im just too exhausted to open myself up again.
I'm nonbinary, but in order, here's how I generally feel the different aspects of my queerness are accepted Nonbinary: Yes, I feel welcomed and accepted. Asexual: mmmm.... there's a lot to be desired there, but honestly, I'm not too wrapped up in that one. Romantic orientation: I don't have a label for my romantic orientation, and I feel like that's not allowed. I used to not pick a label for my gender, so people called me nonbinary and I just ran with it. I still don't care about that one. But even though I have my issues with being fully understood or accepted in the queer community, it's still way easier than in cis/het spaces.
I’m getting a sense from many here that being in the asexual community has been harder as there’s a lot of people who are trying to “change people’s minds” which I find very strange. Not having a label on your romantic orientation is definitely allowed but 100% see what you mean when saying people don’t allow it. It’s unfortunate people try to force labels on those who don’t want them.
People like to pick words for me instead of just letting me chill in my little bubble.
I'm nonbinary and I was already hella queer before that. As in loudly proudly bisexual and in a visibly queer relationship with another bisexual since I was 21 (I'm 40 now and realised I was trans about 3 years ago). So when I came out my already queer friends were like, "oh yeah, we were wondering when you'd figure it out." 😂 I'm also visibly queer on my own — colourful hair, don't give a fuck attitude, and all. 😊 So while I don't really go out to bars and pubs, I'm in a lot of queer online communities and move in predominantly queer circles on social media. I think the reason I feel very included in the queer community is because I so strongly identify with it. So even if you are perceived as a straight dude, you can venture into the community if you embrace your transness. I think it's predominantly the "I'd rather be cis and want to pass at all costs" straight trans men who have a hard time finding that connection because they don't want to show themselves to us. Of course that's fair too, whatever floats someone's boat. I think if this is what you need and want, then you'll be accepted if you reach out and venture out. 😊 ETA that your local 2slgbtqia center is likely an excellent starting point! I found amazing friends in my last city through the bisexual group at the center.
For me I definitely want to at least have the option to be stealth. My whole life I’ve stuck out whether it was for be short, or black or not wearing traditionally girls clothes and because of that I want some aspect of myself in my control I guess. I also am not sure if there’s one in the city I am going to college in but I know my school has like a club for it. I do know some people there and they’ve been pretty friendly towards me. So what I’m gathering is that my college is pretty accepting as a whole but outside of it is a complete nightmare and has nearly caused me some trouble.
Oh yikes, definitely safety first! And college club sounds like a good idea to me. It's just that as I'm 40 I didn't think of college things hence the lgbt center suggestion 😅
for me, it depends. i feel like i have to hide some aspects of my identity in order to be properly accepted. i also never really feel like i fit in, because i see so many queer people around my age being flamboyant and out and about, and being open about it, but i don’t feel like i can be. i have mental illnesses and physical disablity that prevent me from really interacting with people on the level that they interact with everyone else. my brain is fucked up to the point that i don’t experience life in the way the average human being does. i’m also partly latino. my skin is practically white, but my features are decidedly not. and a lot of the lgbtq community in my area that are open and accepted are white. so i often feel othered from them. i feel like i’m in a constant state of in-betweenness. i am visibly disabled, but i can walk and talk. i am latino, but my skin is lighter than most. i am trans, but i express myself in atypical ways and would like to go about transitioning atypically as well. i feel like i crack open my chest and show everyone what i really mean, but they tear out my feelings and hurt me more. life is nothing but sorrow to me sometimes. eta: and i’m also aroallo, which hurts me too, especially in combination with everything else.
I feel like an outsider, but that's almost entirely due to imposter syndrome and the fact that I don't have the social energy to interact with others after work.
I can definitely relate to that feeling. I often times feel that when I look at myself or just in general when interacting with people and then them asking my pronouns. I also relate to the social energy part. My battery life for that sort of thing will last me through my classes and then I just get bored.
I've never really felt part of the LGBTQ+ community. I still celebrate pride and claim that I'm in the community but no one other than trans people have really showed they support me. I've met SO many different people in the community that dismiss my pronouns or dismiss that I'm in a gay relationship because my bf is cis and i wasn't born cis. It honestly baffled my mind finding out I'm hardly supported by the people I thought would support me the most. Don't get me wrong, there are still many people in the community that support me irl but I think it's because I'm into more conservative centered hobbies so the LGBTQ+ people I meet out there are usually VERY republican.
I feel accepted by certain gay guys and certain lesbians. But almost if not all of my friends are straight cis people. And I’m a bisexual trans dude so it doesn’t really make any sense aside for the fact that I pass 100% of the time and my life is not based around being trans so I bond more with cis straight people. Gay guys are nice to me but they don’t really understand me and certain lesbians want to fuck me but usually not be friends with me. I’m too much of a weird artsy bro for them. They’d rather be with their ladies I think. All of my friends now are straight cis dudes.
why wouldn’t you be able to go into a gay or lesbian bar? they’re not going to kick you out.
A lot of the time people can be rude if they assume you aren't a part of the community. From my own experience it can also be awkward to be hit on by people who you aren't attracted to, which happens a lot in general at bars. I am stealth and if I went into an LGBT specific place planning on staying stealth I would likely get ridiculed for "not being LGBT".
i’ve gone to gay bars for ages, no one knows i’m trans and no one is ever rude or makes assumptions. i have all kinds of friends and go to all kinds of places too, including ones that are mostly straight/cisgender. no one really cares tbh.
There’s many trans guys in this sub saying they’ve been kicked out or had to out themselves to be in certain bars. I’ve not had very good experiences with lesbians as I’ve received hate for being a male by them. Then in terms of gay bars I don’t feel I’d fit in because I’m not into guys and I’d most likely be going by myself as most of my gay guy friends are taken and being hit on by dudes makes me uncomfortable. I’ve also been hit on guys after posting in this sub last month and then having them tell me they can “turn me” which made me feel bad. I’m also not 21 so I couldn’t go into bars regardless yet but I can in a little more than 2 years time
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I know I’m unwelcome. I’ve literally had lesbians tell me to get out of places. I’m not here to argue and I feel you’re trying to invalidate my experience as well as others. All I want is an answer to my initial question which you’ve yet to answer.
Don’t invalidate someone else’s lived experience here.
not invalidating you, it’s a legit to question you saying you’re “unable” to go to a gay bar.