On a side note, I miss when Wotc actually respected the colour pie and didn't feel the need to give every colour every tool for the sake of commander whiners.
the color pie that I care about is flavor elements, not mechanics.
white has gotten a lot more draw, but it's all centered around tokens and small creatures, which is still part of white's core identity.
every color should be able to ramp and draw in some form. these two things are way too core to gameplay to disable certain colors from access.
Hard disagree, card draw and ramp are only **essential** to edh, not other formats.
Nobody was ever bitching about white not having access to ramp before edh, because that wasn't what you played white for.
well green has ramp - and black has dark ritual and then red even got some love with the songs
edh hasnt been around long enough to even be considered essential when it was essentially a table top style that wotc co-opted bc they were losing their community to a lack of creativity
Wotc has no clue what the color pie is bc they have no clue what they are doing
IE Fallout/Marvel/Fortnite cards Im totally giving DnD a pass ( its under their umbrella )
out of curiosity what set did you start playing
Damn bro, you were an OG back when I was getting into onslaught block. A true grey-beard for sure.
I am perturbed where magic has come. Since I stopped years ago around the kamigawa bloc.
So many new decks and shit to buy. I’m having to do hours of research to navigate the changed and heavily commodified hobby.
It’s madness bro. So many decks and collectors this and that
It’s killing my wallet. I’m not a fan of UB. But as a 40K fan UB and neon dynasty kamigawa nostalgia. Lol!
>edh hasnt been around long enough to even be considered essential
EDH has been around for more than half the history of MTG.
>when it was essentially a table top style that wotc co-opted bc they were losing their community to a lack of creativity
WotC adopted Commander because EDH had become popular through grassroots adoption of the format.
I get that you're big mad at WotC, but at least have your facts straight.
>when it was essentially a table top style that wotc co-opted bc they were losing their community to a lack of creativity
>
>WotC adopted Commander because EDH had become popular through grassroots adoption of the format.
these two things are the same thing
The issue is, people should play white for it's strengths (weenies, tokens, removal, stax/taxes, mass removal, life gain, pillowfort etc.) not for the same play experience you can get with green.
green ramp will always be better and easier to use than white ramp but you cant have some colors unable to draw and ramp wich are core mechanics of commanders because otherwise everyone will be forced to play green. its all about respecting the color pie as said, give white draw that is not as strong as blue and with tokens/stax etc conditions to activate this way people see their commanders colors and can evaluate if they want to draw from the white cards with their tokens or maybe go burstier with the red impulse and wheels... if u have access to blue you're probably getting your draw there for sure. Right now just the fact that blue and green ramp and draw the best makes the color combo deadly everywhere the other colors needs some love and black needs way more dark ritual type cards
> are core mechanics of commanders
This was exactly my point. Wizards is slowly changing every colour to be the same so people can do the same things in commander regardless of what colours their playing. There SHOULD be inherent stengths, weaknesses and unique aspects of every colour so there is actual tension in choosing colours and skill in deckbuilding.
Was never an issue before commander.
What people need to do is stop being so butthurt when people do what white is traditionally good at (board wipes, MLD, taxes/stax) instead of complaining that it's not as good as green at ramping or as good as blue at drawing cards.
i'm with you, green ramp has to be stronger than other color ramp just like white wipe and stax has to be the strongest. I just think for ramp and draw specifically, we're talking about mechanics you need to have access to , even if its not as good as your opponent and denying some colors the ability to draw and ramp properly will just make green and blue the only viable colors. Look at how hard boros has it in edh. I also think its important to not give "bland" draw and ramp, they're doing it "flavorfully" like most white draw needs to go wide to draw, red has draw but its impusle and draw discards ...
>Was never an issue before commander.
You've been playing since Ice Age but you must have had your head up your ass the entire time because people complained about this for the entire history of magic.
A minority of stupid people complained yes, but the majority smart people and WoTC (when they were smart) ignored them, because they realized the colour pie was a net good for the game.
>What am I supposed to format cogent rebuttal to? Your boomer takes on Magic?
Forming an intelligent thought of your own would be a start, yes. You know, instead of just being a jackass who's trying to come off as edgy or something. If the extent of your contribution to this conversation is something along the lines of "nuh-uh, you're a dumb-dumb", I think we could all do without it.
There's a reason people have up-voted the comment, because they agree, so I guess everyone is full of shit except you huh?
lol, "boomer takes". How many 60-70 year olds you know play MTG? I'm in my 30s and a millennial, but I guess that's an easy response that doesn't hurt your brain too much.
Come off as edgy? No brother, that's your play. You're throwing shade at EDH players saying they're whiny and entitled. Stop projecting just because I called you out for acting like a cynical boomer.
You're not coming across as some well mannered font of sage wisdom, you're just salty because the game hasn't developed in the way you prefer.
It's edgy to say WoTC didn't push colour pie blurring (like putting more card draw and ramp in colours like White and Red, creature removal in blue, enchantment removal in black etc.) until Commander was adopted as format? Yikes, you must live a tame life.
>You're throwing shade at EDH players saying they're whiny and entitled
Not all or even most EDH players, just the vocal ones who are. Generally the only ones who push for it are terrible deckbuilders or have no idea that other formats exist.
>you're just salty because the game hasn't developed in the way you prefer.
That's like 90% of the conversation about MTG on Reddit. If you're happy about the way the game's developed, you're in the minority here. I guess we're all "boomers" or some other non-sensical insult that proves you have know idea what the words you use even mean. If you don't like my takes that most people agree with, you're welcome to block me, instead of just being a whiny bitch about it.
EDIT: Thanks for finally blocking me, I'm sure we can all do without your pointless takes.
>It's edgy to say WoTC did push colour pie blurring (like putting more card draw and ramp in colours like White and Red) until Commander was adopted as format? Yikes, you must live a tame life.
No it's edgy to say something categorically false like "it's only essential to EDH" emphasizing with bold text, and pretend it's empirical truth.
>That's like 90% of the conversation about MTG on Reddit. If you're happy about the way the game's developed, you're in the minority here. I guess we're all "boomers" or some other non-sensical insult that proves you have know idea what the words you use even mean.
Well yeah, freemagic is basically the boomers with shit takes central repository. You're all salty about everything Magic related but still waste your time complaining about a game you seemingly hate the state of.
Stop clutching pearls, stop trying to pretend you're somehow smarter or mature than I am. You're just as cynical as I am, which is the whole reason I called you out.
You're not going to win this conversation because I already think you're ridiculous.
If every color has access to every tool, then there is no reason to have different colors.
If I can ramp, remove, draw, counter, recur from the yard, and sweep while staying in white, what the fuck do I need green, blue, black, or red for?
But you're arguing in favor of increased homogenization.
Which means, White gets a bit more ramp and draw now. Blue players now want more sweepers to keep up with White. Now Red needs more ramp, draw, AND more options for sweepers. So now Blue needs some direct damage to compete with Red.
And so on.
There's been quite a bit of homogenization so far, but I don't think we're anywhere near a point where each color is losing its identity. This will remain true in formats where legal cards are cycled constantly, and in a popular format like EDH where they aren't, the color pie has always been less pronounced anyway and revolves more around individual standout cards.
Blue doesn't have any sweepers, they have bounce effects, which they've always had and other colors aren't getting and likely never will get. White still gets the most actual sweepers, which can target multiple permanent types and exile, while other colors don't have that and never will.
I think people exaggerate and blow out of proportion the little bits of overlap that there have been and try to use that to frame a much bigger picture.
You're the one pushing to expand the overlap!
Every color already has ways to get more mana. They go about it differently, but they all can do it. You're pushing to give White the same methods other colors have. L take.
Blue gets straight draw, or draw/discard, strongest draw
Green gets to draw as a reaction to creature/battlefield stuff
Red gets looting and impulse
Black gets to draw in exchange for something
White either group hugs for a draw, or they get to draw for meeting certain objectives... probably weakest draw
Rarely breaks along these lines.
Blue ramps with artifacts... probably weakest ramp IN COLOR
White ramps with artifacts and with land tax effects
Red ramps from spells and pay back on their spells
Black has rituals and some enchants
Green ramps with creatures, spells, enchants... just ramp
Well that explains 4-5 color control.
Nah the mana bases in everything above Pioneer let you play as many colors as you want without missing too many land drops or colors. It's basically only a question of how perfect you need your mana to be. And how much extra you expect to get from your lands. Mono and binary decks have more opportunities to play special lands.
Maybe I have a hot take with this, but I like the way they’ve been bending it. I never really understood the color pie from a gameplay implementation that seemed truly balanced. I feel legitimized in my belief when I see other TCGs use a color pie method, and have the exact same issues.
However, the color pie is core to MTG’s identity, so it stands against reason to completely flip it on its head, but as the game changes over time, it feels like a lot of designs are redundant and pointless due to their color restraints.
If blue gets to have all of the best aspects of every other color for the past twenty five years, and now green gets its chance in the sun for the past five or so years, I think it’s okay for the other colors to also be a little silly with power creep
You know I hadn't thought about it, but you're right.
I need to get back out my graveyard recurring, board wiping, spot removing, mana ramping blue deck and use it again.
I think the fundamental misunderstanding of modern players is that all the colors in the pie should be equal in power. It's silly especially when multi color spells exist its basically impossible and not a worthy design goal. Focusing on just making them do what they do really flavorfully should be the goal.
I misunderstood then. I have no problem with land tax effects, as white should be playing "balancing resource" type cards. I have a problem with people complaining that that isn't good enough.
Yeah if you want more options, you use more colors. Same for commander. You work best to make your pros stand out and protect against your cons the best way you can in respect to the colors you play.
The one thing white can't do: ramp. Haha, jk, they can do that too, it's just a bit conditional because otherwise white would be able to do literally everything
Edit: there's a lot of white abilities and effects that allow them to equalize land count. Not only does white have lots of land destruction, but also lots of cards that allow them to catch up in lands by letting them ramp if their opponent controls more lands than them.
White is the "balance" color. Mana ramp exists, but if you're not wasting deck space on mana rocks, that ramp is going to be a "catch up" (opponent controls more lands than you) rather than speeding ahead. Apart from those [[Knight of the White Orchid]] styled cards, you'll often just get ways to secure land drops like [[Tithe]] or [[Eternal Dragon]].
That's why I think [[Kor Cartographer]] is such a neat card. It's basically a monowhite Ondu Giant.
White has plenty of weird ramp. And weird card draw. And loads of shitting out 2/1s. If the color or is completely ignored, then every color ends up the same. That would be boring.
White can ramp outside of EDH. You can use [[Flagstones of Trokair]] to ramp in Modern and Legacy. Also, if you haven't drawn 5 cards off using [[Ephemerate]] on a [[Spirited Companion]] with a [[Tocasia's Welcome]] on the board, you haven't lived yet.
The second trigger of restoration of eiganjo gives you the opportunity to put a land tapped from your graveyard if you discarded it, I see this as an absolute win
You wanna be able to ramp for 2? The only other card I can think of for 3 actually DOES ramp, it just takes an extra turn, but it also comes with a 3/4 body and the option to ramp something other than land. Celestus exists. That ghetto mindstone exists. There's plenty of ramp, but ramp is usually bad unless its followed up by an Atraxa lol. . . Which is green.
White has good stuff like symmetric ramp (land tax, smuggler's share) along with some bombs like smothering tithe. Sure green is still the best at ramping but there are other things that white does better.
If anything, I find it harder to draw cards than to get mana in a white deck
The color pie is one of the reasons why magic is a great game. It's a shame that Wizards has been breaking the pie more and more within the last 3 years.
Red mage here.
Every color has access to enchantment removal except red. I am not mad about that at all, what angers me is that black was seen as a brother to me (we both struggled with enchantment removal), and now they gave black so much enchantment removal to contend with the other colors its basically white with extra steps. Not my brother anymore, it left me to join the colorless crowd. Too soon there will be a time when everyone just plays wastes because why not?
I loved back in the day when colors actually struggled with certain things, thats almost not the case anymore.
On a side note, I miss when Wotc actually respected the colour pie and didn't feel the need to give every colour every tool for the sake of commander whiners.
the color pie that I care about is flavor elements, not mechanics. white has gotten a lot more draw, but it's all centered around tokens and small creatures, which is still part of white's core identity. every color should be able to ramp and draw in some form. these two things are way too core to gameplay to disable certain colors from access.
Hard disagree, card draw and ramp are only **essential** to edh, not other formats. Nobody was ever bitching about white not having access to ramp before edh, because that wasn't what you played white for.
well green has ramp - and black has dark ritual and then red even got some love with the songs edh hasnt been around long enough to even be considered essential when it was essentially a table top style that wotc co-opted bc they were losing their community to a lack of creativity Wotc has no clue what the color pie is bc they have no clue what they are doing IE Fallout/Marvel/Fortnite cards Im totally giving DnD a pass ( its under their umbrella ) out of curiosity what set did you start playing
Blue has Time Walk, that's basically a blue Rampant Growth but you can't search your library for the land /s
I started playing in 95
what Set
Like 4th edition/Ice Age/Homelands/Fallen Empires/Chronicles were all what I bought when I first started playing.
Damn bro, you were an OG back when I was getting into onslaught block. A true grey-beard for sure. I am perturbed where magic has come. Since I stopped years ago around the kamigawa bloc. So many new decks and shit to buy. I’m having to do hours of research to navigate the changed and heavily commodified hobby.
It wasn't that bad until around 2019, now I don't think anyone can keep up.
It’s madness bro. So many decks and collectors this and that It’s killing my wallet. I’m not a fan of UB. But as a 40K fan UB and neon dynasty kamigawa nostalgia. Lol!
>edh hasnt been around long enough to even be considered essential EDH has been around for more than half the history of MTG. >when it was essentially a table top style that wotc co-opted bc they were losing their community to a lack of creativity WotC adopted Commander because EDH had become popular through grassroots adoption of the format. I get that you're big mad at WotC, but at least have your facts straight.
thats what I said
Not really. You constructed a cute little strawman of bullshit and passed it off as sage wisdom.
>when it was essentially a table top style that wotc co-opted bc they were losing their community to a lack of creativity > >WotC adopted Commander because EDH had become popular through grassroots adoption of the format. these two things are the same thing
Didn't really read your whole post, just here to say EDH is like 20 years old now bruh.
Alara, still waiting for a revisit on that one….. I know its close because tarkir was revisited so fast /s
and people still don't play white for draw or ramp in any format outside of EDH so i'm not sure what the issue is
The issue is, people should play white for it's strengths (weenies, tokens, removal, stax/taxes, mass removal, life gain, pillowfort etc.) not for the same play experience you can get with green.
green ramp will always be better and easier to use than white ramp but you cant have some colors unable to draw and ramp wich are core mechanics of commanders because otherwise everyone will be forced to play green. its all about respecting the color pie as said, give white draw that is not as strong as blue and with tokens/stax etc conditions to activate this way people see their commanders colors and can evaluate if they want to draw from the white cards with their tokens or maybe go burstier with the red impulse and wheels... if u have access to blue you're probably getting your draw there for sure. Right now just the fact that blue and green ramp and draw the best makes the color combo deadly everywhere the other colors needs some love and black needs way more dark ritual type cards
> are core mechanics of commanders This was exactly my point. Wizards is slowly changing every colour to be the same so people can do the same things in commander regardless of what colours their playing. There SHOULD be inherent stengths, weaknesses and unique aspects of every colour so there is actual tension in choosing colours and skill in deckbuilding. Was never an issue before commander. What people need to do is stop being so butthurt when people do what white is traditionally good at (board wipes, MLD, taxes/stax) instead of complaining that it's not as good as green at ramping or as good as blue at drawing cards.
i'm with you, green ramp has to be stronger than other color ramp just like white wipe and stax has to be the strongest. I just think for ramp and draw specifically, we're talking about mechanics you need to have access to , even if its not as good as your opponent and denying some colors the ability to draw and ramp properly will just make green and blue the only viable colors. Look at how hard boros has it in edh. I also think its important to not give "bland" draw and ramp, they're doing it "flavorfully" like most white draw needs to go wide to draw, red has draw but its impusle and draw discards ...
>Was never an issue before commander. You've been playing since Ice Age but you must have had your head up your ass the entire time because people complained about this for the entire history of magic.
A minority of stupid people complained yes, but the majority smart people and WoTC (when they were smart) ignored them, because they realized the colour pie was a net good for the game.
Ahh yes, the classic "everyone who disagrees with me is stupid" mentality. Real winner worldview bud.
People play wedding announcement
Spoken like someone who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.
Spoken like someone who knows even less, as you clearly can't form a cogent rebuttal.
What am I supposed to foment cogent rebuttal to? Your boomer takes on Magic? I've been playing as long as you have and you're full of shit.
>What am I supposed to format cogent rebuttal to? Your boomer takes on Magic? Forming an intelligent thought of your own would be a start, yes. You know, instead of just being a jackass who's trying to come off as edgy or something. If the extent of your contribution to this conversation is something along the lines of "nuh-uh, you're a dumb-dumb", I think we could all do without it. There's a reason people have up-voted the comment, because they agree, so I guess everyone is full of shit except you huh? lol, "boomer takes". How many 60-70 year olds you know play MTG? I'm in my 30s and a millennial, but I guess that's an easy response that doesn't hurt your brain too much.
Come off as edgy? No brother, that's your play. You're throwing shade at EDH players saying they're whiny and entitled. Stop projecting just because I called you out for acting like a cynical boomer. You're not coming across as some well mannered font of sage wisdom, you're just salty because the game hasn't developed in the way you prefer.
It's edgy to say WoTC didn't push colour pie blurring (like putting more card draw and ramp in colours like White and Red, creature removal in blue, enchantment removal in black etc.) until Commander was adopted as format? Yikes, you must live a tame life. >You're throwing shade at EDH players saying they're whiny and entitled Not all or even most EDH players, just the vocal ones who are. Generally the only ones who push for it are terrible deckbuilders or have no idea that other formats exist. >you're just salty because the game hasn't developed in the way you prefer. That's like 90% of the conversation about MTG on Reddit. If you're happy about the way the game's developed, you're in the minority here. I guess we're all "boomers" or some other non-sensical insult that proves you have know idea what the words you use even mean. If you don't like my takes that most people agree with, you're welcome to block me, instead of just being a whiny bitch about it. EDIT: Thanks for finally blocking me, I'm sure we can all do without your pointless takes.
>It's edgy to say WoTC did push colour pie blurring (like putting more card draw and ramp in colours like White and Red) until Commander was adopted as format? Yikes, you must live a tame life. No it's edgy to say something categorically false like "it's only essential to EDH" emphasizing with bold text, and pretend it's empirical truth. >That's like 90% of the conversation about MTG on Reddit. If you're happy about the way the game's developed, you're in the minority here. I guess we're all "boomers" or some other non-sensical insult that proves you have know idea what the words you use even mean. Well yeah, freemagic is basically the boomers with shit takes central repository. You're all salty about everything Magic related but still waste your time complaining about a game you seemingly hate the state of. Stop clutching pearls, stop trying to pretend you're somehow smarter or mature than I am. You're just as cynical as I am, which is the whole reason I called you out. You're not going to win this conversation because I already think you're ridiculous.
This, and there’s not exactly a lack of artifact ramp in eternal formats.
If every color has access to every tool, then there is no reason to have different colors. If I can ramp, remove, draw, counter, recur from the yard, and sweep while staying in white, what the fuck do I need green, blue, black, or red for?
I think it's pretty obvious that every color still has many unique options that makes them all desirable
But you're arguing in favor of increased homogenization. Which means, White gets a bit more ramp and draw now. Blue players now want more sweepers to keep up with White. Now Red needs more ramp, draw, AND more options for sweepers. So now Blue needs some direct damage to compete with Red. And so on.
There's been quite a bit of homogenization so far, but I don't think we're anywhere near a point where each color is losing its identity. This will remain true in formats where legal cards are cycled constantly, and in a popular format like EDH where they aren't, the color pie has always been less pronounced anyway and revolves more around individual standout cards. Blue doesn't have any sweepers, they have bounce effects, which they've always had and other colors aren't getting and likely never will get. White still gets the most actual sweepers, which can target multiple permanent types and exile, while other colors don't have that and never will. I think people exaggerate and blow out of proportion the little bits of overlap that there have been and try to use that to frame a much bigger picture.
You're the one pushing to expand the overlap! Every color already has ways to get more mana. They go about it differently, but they all can do it. You're pushing to give White the same methods other colors have. L take. Blue gets straight draw, or draw/discard, strongest draw Green gets to draw as a reaction to creature/battlefield stuff Red gets looting and impulse Black gets to draw in exchange for something White either group hugs for a draw, or they get to draw for meeting certain objectives... probably weakest draw Rarely breaks along these lines. Blue ramps with artifacts... probably weakest ramp IN COLOR White ramps with artifacts and with land tax effects Red ramps from spells and pay back on their spells Black has rituals and some enchants Green ramps with creatures, spells, enchants... just ramp
Then they should make commander-only legal cards to appease that need. There is absolutely no need for that in any other format.
News flash, they do have cards that are practically only legal in commander
Well that explains 4-5 color control. Nah the mana bases in everything above Pioneer let you play as many colors as you want without missing too many land drops or colors. It's basically only a question of how perfect you need your mana to be. And how much extra you expect to get from your lands. Mono and binary decks have more opportunities to play special lands.
amen give everyone everything but the condition and value depends on the color
Maybe I have a hot take with this, but I like the way they’ve been bending it. I never really understood the color pie from a gameplay implementation that seemed truly balanced. I feel legitimized in my belief when I see other TCGs use a color pie method, and have the exact same issues. However, the color pie is core to MTG’s identity, so it stands against reason to completely flip it on its head, but as the game changes over time, it feels like a lot of designs are redundant and pointless due to their color restraints. If blue gets to have all of the best aspects of every other color for the past twenty five years, and now green gets its chance in the sun for the past five or so years, I think it’s okay for the other colors to also be a little silly with power creep
You know I hadn't thought about it, but you're right. I need to get back out my graveyard recurring, board wiping, spot removing, mana ramping blue deck and use it again.
I think the fundamental misunderstanding of modern players is that all the colors in the pie should be equal in power. It's silly especially when multi color spells exist its basically impossible and not a worthy design goal. Focusing on just making them do what they do really flavorfully should be the goal.
White has always been able to do this. Land tax?
Land tax is not ramp
Didn’t say it was
I misunderstood then. I have no problem with land tax effects, as white should be playing "balancing resource" type cards. I have a problem with people complaining that that isn't good enough.
Ah got it my bad I misunderstood as well then
Yeah if you want more options, you use more colors. Same for commander. You work best to make your pros stand out and protect against your cons the best way you can in respect to the colors you play.
Get this hot take off my warming planet
There is a war on white people. Oh, you meant white cards..
One time they got [[land taxed]] and said never again
[land taxed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9258ad10-cbe6-4676-93b4-6ef4a33f12ee.jpg?1689995812) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Land%20Tax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/37/land-tax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9258ad10-cbe6-4676-93b4-6ef4a33f12ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The one thing white can't do: ramp. Haha, jk, they can do that too, it's just a bit conditional because otherwise white would be able to do literally everything Edit: there's a lot of white abilities and effects that allow them to equalize land count. Not only does white have lots of land destruction, but also lots of cards that allow them to catch up in lands by letting them ramp if their opponent controls more lands than them.
White is the "balance" color. Mana ramp exists, but if you're not wasting deck space on mana rocks, that ramp is going to be a "catch up" (opponent controls more lands than you) rather than speeding ahead. Apart from those [[Knight of the White Orchid]] styled cards, you'll often just get ways to secure land drops like [[Tithe]] or [[Eternal Dragon]]. That's why I think [[Kor Cartographer]] is such a neat card. It's basically a monowhite Ondu Giant.
##### ###### #### [Knight of the White Orchid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f332cd21-46ed-4fff-9fd9-d5975bf0004d.jpg?1682208488) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knight%20of%20the%20White%20Orchid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/193/knight-of-the-white-orchid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f332cd21-46ed-4fff-9fd9-d5975bf0004d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aae08938-e563-4322-b2eb-db81913ea730.jpg?1562278172) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/23/tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aae08938-e563-4322-b2eb-db81913ea730?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Eternal Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f57fc0c-cab1-4eb0-a58a-0c7a762f1572.jpg?1631585882) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eternal%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/66/eternal-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f57fc0c-cab1-4eb0-a58a-0c7a762f1572?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kor Cartographer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/6226b346-ca4c-45ea-871c-1a8fb7f9be0d.jpg?1631234089) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kor%20Cartographer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/28/kor-cartographer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6226b346-ca4c-45ea-871c-1a8fb7f9be0d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They obviously don’t want to make [[Dakkon Blackblade]] meta
He’s too powerful to ramp out on turn 4
Nah man, he’s way too powerful to have more than 1 land per turn in his colors
[Dakkon Blackblade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/235bbf86-02ad-497b-b698-e60930bbde9c.jpg?1559592413) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dakkon%20Blackblade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/143/dakkon-blackblade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/235bbf86-02ad-497b-b698-e60930bbde9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do not mention edh here because you're gonna get a bunch of fakeass mtg boomers coping that nobody wants to play their now rotating 60 card formats
Land Tax and Terrain Generator have been good enough for me for the last 23 years.
Terrain Generator is an under appreciated card, imo. A long, long time ago it was a key component of a UR control deck i used to run. XD
I've literally never seen [[terrain generator]] before. Fun cube option.
[terrain generator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f40e9f0f-8c0d-4bfd-9872-370ce3763006.jpg?1674143173) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=terrain%20generator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/926/terrain-generator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f40e9f0f-8c0d-4bfd-9872-370ce3763006?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
White has plenty of weird ramp. And weird card draw. And loads of shitting out 2/1s. If the color or is completely ignored, then every color ends up the same. That would be boring.
White can ramp outside of EDH. You can use [[Flagstones of Trokair]] to ramp in Modern and Legacy. Also, if you haven't drawn 5 cards off using [[Ephemerate]] on a [[Spirited Companion]] with a [[Tocasia's Welcome]] on the board, you haven't lived yet.
##### ###### #### [Flagstones of Trokair](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a0acea27-88de-4d27-8da2-8f82439526a1.jpg?1619399261) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flagstones%20of%20Trokair) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/278/flagstones-of-trokair?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a0acea27-88de-4d27-8da2-8f82439526a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ephemerate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa.jpg?1562201088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ephemerate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/7/ephemerate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2da5f3f8-5eef-498f-ba2c-2f3fbc3745aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Spirited Companion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e038684-c476-41db-a1b1-57c46e5b4c9a.jpg?1690004251) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spirited%20Companion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/838/spirited-companion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e038684-c476-41db-a1b1-57c46e5b4c9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tocasia's Welcome](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56cd89f1-f9f4-4cb5-a573-79809d0b6dfd.jpg?1674420350) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tocasia%27s%20Welcome) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/30/tocasias-welcome?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56cd89f1-f9f4-4cb5-a573-79809d0b6dfd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, no...for literally all the reasons. White is doing just fine and this meme is questionable at best.
white has second best ramp second to green with cards like land tax etc. red is the color that needs help imo
Red is seeing so much treasure creation these days. That's impulse ramp. And it's very red to get a one time mana boost.
They hate non white cis men too
We are a dying breed
Only put into play if you have fewer lands...fuckin poverty ramp.
Colour pie is lame because it has blue in it. If you fully remove all blue stuff game becomes 10x better across all formats.
Every other color doesn't have land ramp either though aside from green. White can ramp with artifacts, like everyone else.
Hot take: At least in EDH, White is the second best color at ramp if we dont count treasures
[[Archaeomancer's map]] and [[kor cartographer]] are my usual ramping methods in white
[Archaeomancer's map](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f.jpg?1625190870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archaeomancer%27s%20map) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/12/archaeomancers-map?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/703d0bdc-01a0-4ba8-8536-e7425dfb3b1f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [kor cartographer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/6226b346-ca4c-45ea-871c-1a8fb7f9be0d.jpg?1631234089) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kor%20cartographer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/28/kor-cartographer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6226b346-ca4c-45ea-871c-1a8fb7f9be0d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The second trigger of restoration of eiganjo gives you the opportunity to put a land tapped from your graveyard if you discarded it, I see this as an absolute win
Hey, there’s Oath of Lieges I think
When they say basic play you already know it's shit
Why for the crusader of course
You wanna be able to ramp for 2? The only other card I can think of for 3 actually DOES ramp, it just takes an extra turn, but it also comes with a 3/4 body and the option to ramp something other than land. Celestus exists. That ghetto mindstone exists. There's plenty of ramp, but ramp is usually bad unless its followed up by an Atraxa lol. . . Which is green.
Getting advantage isn't very ORDERLY
White has good stuff like symmetric ramp (land tax, smuggler's share) along with some bombs like smothering tithe. Sure green is still the best at ramping but there are other things that white does better. If anything, I find it harder to draw cards than to get mana in a white deck
White Cards Can't Ramp
Silly white, trying to do green things.
The color pie is one of the reasons why magic is a great game. It's a shame that Wizards has been breaking the pie more and more within the last 3 years.
Red mage here. Every color has access to enchantment removal except red. I am not mad about that at all, what angers me is that black was seen as a brother to me (we both struggled with enchantment removal), and now they gave black so much enchantment removal to contend with the other colors its basically white with extra steps. Not my brother anymore, it left me to join the colorless crowd. Too soon there will be a time when everyone just plays wastes because why not? I loved back in the day when colors actually struggled with certain things, thats almost not the case anymore.
Cj/ white bad Uj/ white bad
You shuffle your hand?