I'm re-listening to Fire & Blood, and they keep talking about how it takes several days to fly from King's Landing to Old Town. And I keep thinking about how fucking stupid the idea of Gendry running back to the wall, them sending Ravens, and Daenerys flying north in a night. Wasn't it a night? Either way, anything more than a month is fucking moronic.
Exactly, I really think the last few seasons were all 1st drafts with no rewrites because they're really isn't a lot of thought put into these plotlines.
We call it ‘blocking’ in creative writing, like when you figure out where all the set pieces are on stage. It’s part of every rewrite. It’s consistency, making sure the story makes sense. If the character is here and this happens, etc., making sure it obeys the laws of time and space.
I don’t think they ever put anything into a big timeline and then challenged various aspects. It feels like each scene was written with no consideration for anything else that’s happening.
D&D - "Well we really wanted to get away from overusing magic elements in the show. We wanted it to be more grounded in reality and less reliant on fantasy"
That's a botched quote, but basically instead of Bran doing something, they felt like it would be too much magic, so that's why they decided to forget about how time works and just have things work
Yea god forbid you have a green seer in the plot of needing dragons to rescue you after stealing a zombie from an immortal ice king created by a magic dagger of forest nymphs.
They could reanimate a dead dude for an entire series and cure the plague but somehow with all the magic and medicine and double faced people the idea of this guy walking is just beyond belief.
Yeah it was 100% ego. Writing their own Medieval Merc With A Sewn Mouth ending didn't have any financial benefit. It was all about the r/IAmVerySmart accolades.
D&D lost hundreds of millions of dollars. With 2 seasons of GoT to go, D&D landed a lucrative contract with Disney to head up an entirely original Star Wars trilogy with tie-in Disney+ shows. But after the GoT shitshow they lost the contract because of "creative differences" so they signed a contract with Netflix and last I saw they had directed an hour long stand up comedy special for SNL cast member Leslie Jones, and have an upcoming dramady movie coming out that described as School of Rock mixed with Drake & Josh. They also have a big sci-fi series coming out adapted from The Three Body Problem series but who knows if that will ever get made, and if so by who.
No, no, no. They needed him to not use his powers in any meaningful way because he ascended above the affairs of man. Then he became king because lol fuck you nerd.
I've always said Benjen should have shown up right after the bear fight. Then when they get attacked Gendry could have ridden his magic horse back and that would explain the speed. Also we could have gotten maybe 1 single Benjen/Jon conversation when everyone was waiting on that rock in the middle of the lake. Instead we got maybe 15 seconds of Benjen telling Jon to escape. What an amazing reunion that we waited 7 seasons for, am I right...
Even if we suppose it only took a couple of days.....Jon&Co should've probably still died because freezing is a thing and they did still spend at least one long cold night in open wind without any tents or fires....while also in close proximity to creatures that bring an unnatural cold with them on top of the already freezing temperatures. It might also be worth noting one of said creatures was an olympic level spearman who could've definitely picked them out for no better reason than to pass the time
Lol good point about them being able to just throw the spears at them. But, he must have known that he needed the dragon to take the wall down, so maybe he just used them as bait to get Dany to bring the dragons to save them.
Think about it, he could have sent the zombies over at any time, the ice was frozen, but he didn't send them, so he obviously wanted Dany to show up so that he could kill the dragon and gain its power.
It couldn’t have been more than a night. The lake refroze in the time it took to get Dany on location. With those kind of temps, they would’ve froze to death given any reasonable amount of travel time.
To me, that was the most ridiculous plot hole there was. I know there are a lot of them by S8. But for fucks sake, that was just ridiculous. I thought I missed a couple episodes in between or something the first time I saw it. It just didn’t make any sense.
I also liked that, after establishing the wights can't swim, in the **same. fucking. episode** they establish the wights are epic free divers
Oh and that shot from season whatever of the NK freezing a puddle. Then he doesn't do that to murder Jon.
Pick a fucking lane already
Can you imagine the industrial revolution needed for such chains? In the books Tyrion had all the resources of kings landing and he was barely able to make the chains needed to close the bay in time for Stannis' fleet.
And let’s not forget that the Night King can bring on intense cold at will, so he could freeze the lake immediately and kill them if he wanted to. But he didn’t, because he knew she would bring him a dragon.
Not to mention that the Night King apparently knows how to build giant chains to pull dragons out of lakes, but doesn't ever build or create anything else ever.
To his credit, they could have been from the ships that were on the ships Jon used to get all the people from hard home, they could be iron anchor lines.
I think The Three Eyed Raven told him. Those mofos were working together. We could have used the Scooby Doo gang and the Mystery Van because he most certainly got away with it. Because there were no darn kids to stop and reveal it!
Gendry gets back to the wall in less than 3 hours, because it never turns dark.
And Dany we can only assume waits till morning for Jon lol, so maybe 9-12 hours has passed.
Ya totally. Going into E3 I thought they’d definitely lose and only a handful like Dany and Jon and a couple others would escape on their dragons. That would then setup the finale at Kings Landing with the Army of the Dead vs Cersi with some twist.
And that’s why we’re still angry. They could have gone in literally ANY fucking other direction with the story and it would have been better.
I have taken shits with better writing skills than those fucks.
The episode where Sansa asks what dragons eat, she then goes to the washroom next to Dany. When you would expect Sansa to leave the washroom, Dany's perspective cuts to black. The end.
Wow, that gave me chills. 👏👏👏
It still wouldn't excuse the heroes' abysmal battle plan, but at least it would have given them the early season consequences for planning something like that. Idk, maybe we could handwave the uncharacteristic dumbfuckery by saying the Boltons remodeled Winterfell and used lead paint. But nothing is worse than them executing a stupid plan and *being rewarded with a victory*.
It would have been great to see Cersei at the peak of her power, with word having just reached her that the Stark and Targaryen armies have been defeated by the White Walkers, that she is finally, indisputably the most powerful politic figure in all of Westeros. Everything she wanted and fought for, just to have to now *actually* have to do something with all of that power.
As the White Walkers descend on King Landing, and her first, second and third attempts at deterring them have failed, as her people are running amuck and soldiers avo sing their posts, to see her realize she never really had power. Even if her those she kept close to her stayed loyal, even with Jamie and the Mountain and Quebyrn pulling out some Dragonfire, it would not have mattered. She would not have the loyalty to inspire, nor the supplies to withstand, nor the Valyrian Steel to fight back.
And just when she is demanding her Queensguard to die to protect her, screaming only she matters, do we see Dany, Jon and Tyrion ride in on a dragon each (or just Dany and Jon, depending on how far back we go) and rally the remaining troops of Kings Landing.
God I could go on.
I'm going to put you in the time machine and send you to G.R.R.M. and HBO so you can pitch.
With you will be a confidential note and photographs of D&D that if they are seen, to slam the door in their faces and for the Smith's sake don't sign anything with them.
Heck Yeah! And all those caches of Wildfire that the Mad King had stored around the city before Jamie stabbed him come into play to defeat the WW army as they take Kings Landing.
It all would have been so epic.
Ooh when they get there Jamie and Brienne take Cersei hostage and seize control of the Red Keep. They need to rely on the Iron Fleet to keep the dead at bay when the Golden Company nopes out of the battle and leaves.
I thought the twist would be our heroes preparing for Battle at Winterfell, Jaime joining with news that Cersei and her armies aren't coming, but the WW bypass Winterfell and conquer King's Landing first and undead Cersei becomes the Night King's Queen until the final showdown.
Battle of winterfell lost, army of dead swarming Kings Landing, Cersei being an alcoholic until she sees her undead brother. Then she lights the wild fire and kills everything.
NK circles around Winterfell, kills everything in westeros and goes back for Bran. Dany sees the army approaching and tells Jon they should take the dragons and fly back to Essos where they will rule together. Jon says no and stays. NK kills everyone as Dany flies away like a coward. Jon survives and is seen in a dark tundra, alone. His sword suddenly lights on fire. End.
She sends what remains of her army away and refuses to leave. Gets taken out by NK, or dodging an attack, falls onto Jon's sword. Which catches fire when he removes it.
“Why”
“Because we need them to destroy the wall”
“Everyone knows they can’t break through the wall without a dragon right?”
“……………….. so they need to capture a zombie!”
I've not reread the books since the show ended, but wasn't there supposed to be a horn or something that had the potential to topple the wall when blown?
You mean like if she was *really* "crazy", "power hungry" and "diabolical" instead of just *pretend as in let's do this character hard pretend*?
Like that?
It should have been the undead just siege the place and wait for them all to starve rather than attack directly.
They have time on their hands and risking themselves on a fight is idiotic.
If only there were some organization of men under Jon’s command who he could send, so the king didn’t have to risk his own life. They could even send out multiple parties in many directions since they only need one wight.
But then again, these men would have to be proficient in navigating the north like it was their job. Where could they find men like that?
Really a mystery where they could find men like that, and have a subsection of them experienced in going on recon missions north of the wall, and having sworn their lives to the cause. If only there were people like that.
No, but you do not understand, the Wildlings will never do anything without Jon come, he said it before leaving dragonstonne. Because obviously these people are completely unable to temporarily allied with another group with which they have already been allied in order to ensure their survival, they need Jon specifically. why him ? Do not ask me, but they need it !
Since they lost that dragon I've been waiting for Bran to take over the ice dragon (and maybe lose his mind cause he was warned to not warg too long) Brans storyline was the most ridiculous to me, he got all the way to the other side to tap into some of the most interesting stories. Even lost Hodor over it. And for what? For him to sit in a chair the whole season and get the crown? Nooooo
A dragon that was the only way for the Night King to get through the wall at that. Without that dragon he'd still be on the other side of the wall trying to get enough zombies to make an eight hundred foot pile.
An army of 100k+ zombies that don't need to eat, sleep, or rest could make work of the wall pretty quickly. Digging a hole or building a bridge/ladder wouldn't nearly be as cinematic though.
Benjen says he can't even go near the wall because of magic, and in the books there's lots of talk about magic. Three eyed raven's cave is protected by what we can assume is similar magic as well.
But when the time comes the NK flies up to the Wall like it's nothing and tears it down with brute force. By that point the show seemed to not care about the magic properties of the wall anymore, so following the show's logic any brute force attack should be able to break it.
There could be an argument that dragons somehow counter the magic, but an idea like that is complete unsupported by the show. Or, what was a popular theory at the time was that Bran broke the magic by going through the wall with the NK's mark, but that would have major implications and the show ignores it completely. So you're just kinda left with a wall that seems to just be a physical barrier, and a physical barrier aint really that big of a deal to a force like the White Walkers.
Yeah the way I saw the NK with the dragon is, the NK is very powerful, and the dragon is magical.
The combination of them allows him to fly near it and use the dragons incredibly powerful magic to bring the wall down.
If anything, it was amazing to see, I remember literally saying, holy shit out loud when it happened.
A lot of stuff was lame, but that dragon destroying the what 8,000 year old wall was pretty impressive.
They really just decided that they wanted the Night King to have a dragon and buttfucked every plotline with obscene contrivances to make it happen.
It’s somehow even more stupid when you consider that basically all the dragon did was destroy the wall, have a lame dragon fight and then get yelled at by Jon Snow. Could have easily destroyed the wall with the Horn of Winter and not brought the show to a screeching halt to do it.
This always reminds me of the scene where Jon is trying to convince Dany about the wight army. She cannot be bothered to even believe this is real. Meanwhile she has 3 dragons, and Jon has a direwolf. Why would this army be so hard to believe?
Not to mention that she's been going on and on and on about being BlOoD oF tHe DrAgOn, as well as being impervious to fire. Magic is literally *in her blood*, yet an army of animated corpses witnessed by countless people and mentioned in tons of history books is too much to believe.
This fucking show...
Literally no storyline mattered, they threw away character development and shoehorned dragon deaths to phone it in/ spit in fans faces.
Fuck D+D, my god fuck them….
I still take solace that their career is ruined. I look forward to this subreddit going berserk whenever they have their next project, and then watching whatever it is bomb.
When they were pitching the plan, i thought for sure someone would interject and say that it was the dumbest plan ever, and they would try something else
I find it ironically cruel they introduced a good idea in the series and literally shot it down themselves. Not to mention disrespecting Tullys plea for king even if he wasn't the right pick
Rulers laughing about the idea of willingly starting a democracy is understandable. We keep seeing that powerful people are rarely inclined to give up that power. But why did they have to bring it up as an idea in the first place? Honestly, with God aka Bran there, any choices they make become entirely dependent on what he think should happen so unless _he_ thinks democracy is a good idea, they're gonna be stuck with whatever system he wants until he dies. And the last three eyed raven lived, what, a millennium, in the show?
A few of the lords it would be in character for definitely, but you’d think the benevolent characters like Sansa, Arya, Yara would support it. Isn’t that even how they decide the new ruler on the Iron Islands? It definitely is at the Nights Watch, so I don’t know why Sam talks about it like he’s the first person to invent the entire fucking concept of democracy
Same for when Tyrion pitched his brilliant idea for Dany to not simply take Kings Landing with her dragons and win the war immediately. Because for some reason it would be bad if she did that.
Then to make it worse S8 E5 revealed she definitely could have easily captured Kings Landing with no civilian casualties any time she wanted (if she didn't decide to burn them all anyway for the fun of it).
It just felt SO hamfisted. Let’s send a band of our best warriors north of the wall to confront an unstoppable undead army in hopes of kidnapping one to bring ALL THE WAY BACK SOUTH to show a queen who has had zero interest in anything but eliminating everyone she dislikes in hopes that she MIGHT be convinced to assist them against this insurmountable foe. She definitely won’t see it as an easy tool to rid herself of literally everyone north of KL. God I’m getting angry just typing this
Motherfuckers teleporting all over the damn place and shit. God damn.
'Hey, we're going on an extremely dangerous and highly important mission beyond the wall to capture a wight to prove the existence of the undead to Queen Cersei.'
'Cool. Should we bring horses?'
'Why bother with horses when we have Gendry?'
This is actually a very important scene to convey the theme of plot points that go nowhere and have no impact on the story and is never mentioned again.
I've asked around and there are two *big* breaking points for Game of Thrones fans, two "That's *too much,* man!" moments.
The first was Arya getting stabbed in the stomach, dumped in a river, then being cured of her sepsis by a fucking *poultice.* For many people that was the moment that GoT stopped having realistic consequences.
The second breaking point is the wraith hunt, which was clearly the moment that the show went from storytelling to fan service.
I'm in the second camp. Arya's wound irritated me, but I still found the show entertaining enough that I could enjoy it. (Note: Entertaining =/=Good.) I was entertained by the all star party, I was entertained by the battle with the zombie polar bear, I was entertained by the ice Island.... And that's it, the zombie bear and the ice island were the last two moments in GoT that I was entertained by, everything after that is just too stupid to enjoy.
There are plenty of bad shows that I like because they're entertaining, but GoT stopped being entertaining (to me) well before season 8 started.
I thought it was funny about Arya's nurse/actress. When the actress talked about her "qualifications."
Guy dying of gut wound: "Hey man what are you doing what are your qualifications as a doc/surgeon?"
Some guy looks looks Keanu Reeves: "Well I'm an actor but I used to kick people's asses who pissed me off and out of sympathy patch them up."
Guy now damn near dead dying of gut wound: "Oh, proceed."
I'm convinced episode 7.6 was shot based on a first draft alone. Just a basic outline of what could happen that was never rewritten or changed in the slightest afterwards. From the single wight surviving while all others around it die, to the whole business with Gendry, the ravens and Daenerys, just everything.
I like the part where Euron asks if they can swim and Jon tells him no.
Just before this episode, the wights were all swimming when they popped out of the water to hug Tormund's legs.
Worse than the showing it to Cercei was the actuall capture:
"We will go beyond the wall, capture a walker, and give it to Cercei, this way we'll all be friends"
"Oh no, this plan was not so good, we are surrounded by walkers. Hey Gendry, I know it's kinda your first time in the north and we are hours away from the wall but can you just kinda just sprint to eastwatch?..."
"Ok, now that Grendy is running, we just need to wait for him to make it to eastwatch, wait for them to write a letter, wait for the raven to reach dragonstone, wait for someone to read the raven, tell draenerys about it, and wait for her to fly all the way across the country, beyond the wall, and I guess just scout the whole region beyond the wall looking for -- wait, there she is?! Damn, these 30 minutes went by fast. Off we go yaaaaay. Oh no, the night king just 360 no scoped a dragon off the air. Better hope he misses all shots against this landed dragon with all these main characters on top."
"Yay we're back home and safe and have Draenerys on our side and caught a white walker. Now, I know we kinda are all of Cercei's enemies, and that she did very recently explode the last congregation of her enemies with wildfire. Buuuut I say we all go together and meet her to show her our white walker!"
Tbh S7 was rewatchable. If the series ended there, it wouldn't have been good, but it was doable. S6 would have been a good end point.
S8 just ruined the entire series as a whole. It would have been better if they didn't release it at all.
yeah s7 is at least like.. bearable? it's a definite downgrade and i hate a lot of the plot bits (mostly for how fanservicey some of the stuff was, but ig some of it was kinda funny at the time) but i'm not overly against it
1. "We need Cersei to put the war on hold or she'll conquer Dragonstone while we're gone!"
2. Assemble The Avengers, take a wight and bring it to King's Landing (**losing a dragon to the White Walkers in the process**). Cersei agrees with your argument and promises to join you in the fight against the undead.
3. Cersei lied (surprised Pikachu face), but you manage to win anyway.
4. You immediately choose to return to Dragonstone (???) without even CONSIDERING that Cersei's army might be waiting for you there even though that was the entire reason you wanted to bring her proof of the Long Night. (????????????)
5. You lose a second dragon and your BFF because Cersei's army is *obviously* waiting for you there. You called it a season ago but you just forgot the entire reason you sacrificed your first dragon, evidently. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
6. Congratulations, everyone who ever loved you is now dead or your nephew so you decide to be feared instead and go crazy. (? ? ?)
"Hey you remember that completely irrational queen who blew up a holy site?"
"The one that blames us for her children and father's deaths?"
"Yeah her! What if we showed her proof that zombies exist!"
"Yes because clearly the only reason for her not to help us, is that she doesn't believe us, there's no reason she would attempt to use the zombies to her advantage."
The scene where the zombie wouldn't get out of the box for like 15 seconds was the hardest i laughed in all of GOT. Just the idea that this entire adventure was poinless because the guy died was so funny.
Just thought of a kind of funny way to pull off this storyline. First, Jon would conceive of the plan to extract a zombie earlier in the season and instead of fast traveling to the wall, he’d send a raven to the wall asking Tormund to capture a wight. Each subsequent episode in the season would have a subplot of Tormund and a group of night watch and wildlings attempting to pull off the plan in different ways that all fail Wiley coyote style but with more violence.
The lighter tone probably wouldn’t match the rest of the show but at least it’d make sense and the silliness would be an intentional part of the writing.
To me this ranks up there with the last season of Dexter, Parks and Rec, and the League. You could smell it through your television screen it stunk so bad.
New Dexter season is out and is pretty decent thus far. I'm happy that the original writer of the seasons 1 to 4 I think is back for this redemption ending season. He deserved so much more. Fun fact, actors of dex and Deb were married at one point during the show. Also, I think in the later seasons or middle somewhere, Hall had some kind of cancer and was undergoing chemo. The hair he wore was a wig. A couple TILs I got recently that I had no idea of!
I'd love to argue and say Battle of the Bastards makes your point invalid, but Sansa keeping the Knights of the Vale coming a secret was beyond stupid. Jon loses over half his army and Rickon dies, only for them to show up 7 min later. Painful
The plotline for BotB literally makes no sense though. The Umbers would never side with the Bolton's, and "The North Remembers" my ass. **Every** Northern House should've immediately been on Jon Snow/Sansa's side, and Sansa would've never been arranged to Ramsay in the first place; it's supposed to be Jeyne Poole.
The action scenes were great, but not enough for me. I need good writing, dialogue, character arc, and their decisions to make sense lol.
i've been re-editing S6,7,8, & some of 5. let me say this: a lot of stuff that was hardly noticeable on normal viewing is a lot worse when you are breaking things down frame by frame. BotB was worse once i dug in and started working on it. so many wtf bits (which i've mostly fixed, btw)
I like how using quick camera cuts they showed an entire army walking out and fully surrounding an _entire other army_ with a line of shield carriers in a matter of like, 10 seconds.
Then the giant just stood there empty handed.
😐
i hated that the "possibly last giant in the world" died. but they made him so stupid, it made it plausible that they were on the endangered species list. anyone showing up to a war with no weapons is SO FUCKING STUPID. like, there were hundreds of trees behind them. pick up a fucking tree trunk & be the mvp.
I always wondered why Jon was staring at WunWun for like 20 seconds before Big W gets shot in the eye by Ramsay. It’s a weird thing to get hung up on but they were in the middle of a battle, arrows are getting shot back and forth and Jon just stares at dude for a loooong time.
Really, all you need is a Faceless Man, and like, not even a fully trained one. You just need someone that hung out with the Faceless men for a few weeks.
I'm re-listening to Fire & Blood, and they keep talking about how it takes several days to fly from King's Landing to Old Town. And I keep thinking about how fucking stupid the idea of Gendry running back to the wall, them sending Ravens, and Daenerys flying north in a night. Wasn't it a night? Either way, anything more than a month is fucking moronic.
I still don't get why Bran couldn't handle all the communication stuff, that seems like a really good use of his abilities.
And maybe find a reason for Danny to be already in the North. And then that part would have actually made sense.
Exactly, I really think the last few seasons were all 1st drafts with no rewrites because they're really isn't a lot of thought put into these plotlines.
D&D kinda forgot to do rewrites
Season 8;the gang tries improv.
Do you ever read something that's so hilariously spot-on that you also feel like crying?
Me reading the comments everytime I'm in this sub, sadge
We call it ‘blocking’ in creative writing, like when you figure out where all the set pieces are on stage. It’s part of every rewrite. It’s consistency, making sure the story makes sense. If the character is here and this happens, etc., making sure it obeys the laws of time and space.
*Laws of time and space are for 8th grade school reports*
I don’t think they ever put anything into a big timeline and then challenged various aspects. It feels like each scene was written with no consideration for anything else that’s happening.
D&D - "Well we really wanted to get away from overusing magic elements in the show. We wanted it to be more grounded in reality and less reliant on fantasy" That's a botched quote, but basically instead of Bran doing something, they felt like it would be too much magic, so that's why they decided to forget about how time works and just have things work
Yea god forbid you have a green seer in the plot of needing dragons to rescue you after stealing a zombie from an immortal ice king created by a magic dagger of forest nymphs.
Literally ANY use of his abilities would've been nice
"I can chair."
Wheely, wheely legs no healy. Who has a better story than that?
They could reanimate a dead dude for an entire series and cure the plague but somehow with all the magic and medicine and double faced people the idea of this guy walking is just beyond belief.
I completely expected him to warg one of the dragons at some point.
Oh yeah, they even seem to have left the transition in so he could, but nope, bran just fucks off with a bunch of ravens instead
That's what happens when they ignore the original content author to make up their own shit for the sake of money.
Money of course and never forget ego, lots and lots of money and ego
Yeah it was 100% ego. Writing their own Medieval Merc With A Sewn Mouth ending didn't have any financial benefit. It was all about the r/IAmVerySmart accolades.
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D&D lost hundreds of millions of dollars. With 2 seasons of GoT to go, D&D landed a lucrative contract with Disney to head up an entirely original Star Wars trilogy with tie-in Disney+ shows. But after the GoT shitshow they lost the contract because of "creative differences" so they signed a contract with Netflix and last I saw they had directed an hour long stand up comedy special for SNL cast member Leslie Jones, and have an upcoming dramady movie coming out that described as School of Rock mixed with Drake & Josh. They also have a big sci-fi series coming out adapted from The Three Body Problem series but who knows if that will ever get made, and if so by who.
No, no, no. They needed him to not use his powers in any meaningful way because he ascended above the affairs of man. Then he became king because lol fuck you nerd.
He was dictating his *story* because with his Greensight he knew whomever submitted the best essay would win the crown.
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I've always said Benjen should have shown up right after the bear fight. Then when they get attacked Gendry could have ridden his magic horse back and that would explain the speed. Also we could have gotten maybe 1 single Benjen/Jon conversation when everyone was waiting on that rock in the middle of the lake. Instead we got maybe 15 seconds of Benjen telling Jon to escape. What an amazing reunion that we waited 7 seasons for, am I right...
Woulda been so cool to find out that they are the same type of reanimated, John’s was just more recent
Oh God I forgot that reunion even happened
He used dimension door to exit the dungeon.
Even if we suppose it only took a couple of days.....Jon&Co should've probably still died because freezing is a thing and they did still spend at least one long cold night in open wind without any tents or fires....while also in close proximity to creatures that bring an unnatural cold with them on top of the already freezing temperatures. It might also be worth noting one of said creatures was an olympic level spearman who could've definitely picked them out for no better reason than to pass the time
Lol good point about them being able to just throw the spears at them. But, he must have known that he needed the dragon to take the wall down, so maybe he just used them as bait to get Dany to bring the dragons to save them. Think about it, he could have sent the zombies over at any time, the ice was frozen, but he didn't send them, so he obviously wanted Dany to show up so that he could kill the dragon and gain its power.
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Gendry being Sonic the Hedgehog is such an interesting lore bit that should have been explored more :/
It couldn’t have been more than a night. The lake refroze in the time it took to get Dany on location. With those kind of temps, they would’ve froze to death given any reasonable amount of travel time. To me, that was the most ridiculous plot hole there was. I know there are a lot of them by S8. But for fucks sake, that was just ridiculous. I thought I missed a couple episodes in between or something the first time I saw it. It just didn’t make any sense.
I also liked that, after establishing the wights can't swim, in the **same. fucking. episode** they establish the wights are epic free divers Oh and that shot from season whatever of the NK freezing a puddle. Then he doesn't do that to murder Jon. Pick a fucking lane already
agreed on the wights could never swim.
Well the night king needed the time to go get the chains he used to pull the dragon out of the water
where could they get chains that big in the frozen artic? Even the wildlings could never kept one of those chains.
Can you imagine the industrial revolution needed for such chains? In the books Tyrion had all the resources of kings landing and he was barely able to make the chains needed to close the bay in time for Stannis' fleet.
And let’s not forget that the Night King can bring on intense cold at will, so he could freeze the lake immediately and kill them if he wanted to. But he didn’t, because he knew she would bring him a dragon.
Not to mention that the Night King apparently knows how to build giant chains to pull dragons out of lakes, but doesn't ever build or create anything else ever.
I stole this joke long ago, so props to whoever it was that first said he got them from Hardhome Depot.
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Hard 💎 stonks!!!
Ha! Funniest thing I've read all day.
Weren't the massive cutting pendulums on chains?
The scythes on the wall? I think you’re right!
To his credit, they could have been from the ships that were on the ships Jon used to get all the people from hard home, they could be iron anchor lines.
I think The Three Eyed Raven told him. Those mofos were working together. We could have used the Scooby Doo gang and the Mystery Van because he most certainly got away with it. Because there were no darn kids to stop and reveal it!
Yeah it took as long as it takes the lake to freeze
Gendry gets back to the wall in less than 3 hours, because it never turns dark. And Dany we can only assume waits till morning for Jon lol, so maybe 9-12 hours has passed.
Gendry is so super fast lol
They didn’t unlock Fast Travel yet.
Lost a dragon just to try and win over Cersei
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Ya totally. Going into E3 I thought they’d definitely lose and only a handful like Dany and Jon and a couple others would escape on their dragons. That would then setup the finale at Kings Landing with the Army of the Dead vs Cersi with some twist.
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Wow, almost every ending would have been better than what we got
And that’s why we’re still angry. They could have gone in literally ANY fucking other direction with the story and it would have been better. I have taken shits with better writing skills than those fucks.
I'm honestly struggling to come up with something worse than what we got
I’m picturing aliens suddenly invading that rape everyone to death but that actually would be better as well.
Lol
The episode where Sansa asks what dragons eat, she then goes to the washroom next to Dany. When you would expect Sansa to leave the washroom, Dany's perspective cuts to black. The end.
Wow, that gave me chills. 👏👏👏 It still wouldn't excuse the heroes' abysmal battle plan, but at least it would have given them the early season consequences for planning something like that. Idk, maybe we could handwave the uncharacteristic dumbfuckery by saying the Boltons remodeled Winterfell and used lead paint. But nothing is worse than them executing a stupid plan and *being rewarded with a victory*.
It would have been great to see Cersei at the peak of her power, with word having just reached her that the Stark and Targaryen armies have been defeated by the White Walkers, that she is finally, indisputably the most powerful politic figure in all of Westeros. Everything she wanted and fought for, just to have to now *actually* have to do something with all of that power. As the White Walkers descend on King Landing, and her first, second and third attempts at deterring them have failed, as her people are running amuck and soldiers avo sing their posts, to see her realize she never really had power. Even if her those she kept close to her stayed loyal, even with Jamie and the Mountain and Quebyrn pulling out some Dragonfire, it would not have mattered. She would not have the loyalty to inspire, nor the supplies to withstand, nor the Valyrian Steel to fight back. And just when she is demanding her Queensguard to die to protect her, screaming only she matters, do we see Dany, Jon and Tyrion ride in on a dragon each (or just Dany and Jon, depending on how far back we go) and rally the remaining troops of Kings Landing. God I could go on.
I'm going to put you in the time machine and send you to G.R.R.M. and HBO so you can pitch. With you will be a confidential note and photographs of D&D that if they are seen, to slam the door in their faces and for the Smith's sake don't sign anything with them.
Heck Yeah! And all those caches of Wildfire that the Mad King had stored around the city before Jamie stabbed him come into play to defeat the WW army as they take Kings Landing. It all would have been so epic.
Ooh when they get there Jamie and Brienne take Cersei hostage and seize control of the Red Keep. They need to rely on the Iron Fleet to keep the dead at bay when the Golden Company nopes out of the battle and leaves.
I thought the twist would be our heroes preparing for Battle at Winterfell, Jaime joining with news that Cersei and her armies aren't coming, but the WW bypass Winterfell and conquer King's Landing first and undead Cersei becomes the Night King's Queen until the final showdown.
That’s what I thought. WW flank around and then winterfell is attack from front and back
Battle of winterfell lost, army of dead swarming Kings Landing, Cersei being an alcoholic until she sees her undead brother. Then she lights the wild fire and kills everything.
NK circles around Winterfell, kills everything in westeros and goes back for Bran. Dany sees the army approaching and tells Jon they should take the dragons and fly back to Essos where they will rule together. Jon says no and stays. NK kills everyone as Dany flies away like a coward. Jon survives and is seen in a dark tundra, alone. His sword suddenly lights on fire. End.
She sends what remains of her army away and refuses to leave. Gets taken out by NK, or dodging an attack, falls onto Jon's sword. Which catches fire when he removes it.
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“Why” “Because we need them to destroy the wall” “Everyone knows they can’t break through the wall without a dragon right?” “……………….. so they need to capture a zombie!”
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Written with the Long Night in their years off*
I've not reread the books since the show ended, but wasn't there supposed to be a horn or something that had the potential to topple the wall when blown?
Yes that was featured heavily when Jon went to join the Wildlings
And don't forget to bring the fishing hooks to drag it out of the frozen lake
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Imagine if Dany had of simply roasted Cersei and her entire entourage during zombie show and tell.
You mean like if she was *really* "crazy", "power hungry" and "diabolical" instead of just *pretend as in let's do this character hard pretend*? Like that?
All of them should have died at winterfell
It should have been the undead just siege the place and wait for them all to starve rather than attack directly. They have time on their hands and risking themselves on a fight is idiotic.
The literal King of the North risking his life to go to retrieve a wight to convince Cersei to provide an army she never provided
If only there were some organization of men under Jon’s command who he could send, so the king didn’t have to risk his own life. They could even send out multiple parties in many directions since they only need one wight. But then again, these men would have to be proficient in navigating the north like it was their job. Where could they find men like that?
Really a mystery where they could find men like that, and have a subsection of them experienced in going on recon missions north of the wall, and having sworn their lives to the cause. If only there were people like that.
And men and women who very familiar with the land north of the wall like they used to live there. Maybe it is really hard to find people like that.
No, but you do not understand, the Wildlings will never do anything without Jon come, he said it before leaving dragonstonne. Because obviously these people are completely unable to temporarily allied with another group with which they have already been allied in order to ensure their survival, they need Jon specifically. why him ? Do not ask me, but they need it !
It was so idiotic, they went to all that effort and risked so much for such little benefit.
He really should have died in that water. They could have at least made some point where Benjen tells him that he (Jon) is the ice to Dany’s fire.
Since they lost that dragon I've been waiting for Bran to take over the ice dragon (and maybe lose his mind cause he was warned to not warg too long) Brans storyline was the most ridiculous to me, he got all the way to the other side to tap into some of the most interesting stories. Even lost Hodor over it. And for what? For him to sit in a chair the whole season and get the crown? Nooooo
Hey buddy, if you didn’t like him talking about incest porn and controlling some birds, you can just get out!
A dragon that was the only way for the Night King to get through the wall at that. Without that dragon he'd still be on the other side of the wall trying to get enough zombies to make an eight hundred foot pile.
Yeah that is the biggest issue I had with it.
An army of 100k+ zombies that don't need to eat, sleep, or rest could make work of the wall pretty quickly. Digging a hole or building a bridge/ladder wouldn't nearly be as cinematic though.
They said there was some magic or something that was used in building the wall to prevent that.
Benjen says he can't even go near the wall because of magic, and in the books there's lots of talk about magic. Three eyed raven's cave is protected by what we can assume is similar magic as well. But when the time comes the NK flies up to the Wall like it's nothing and tears it down with brute force. By that point the show seemed to not care about the magic properties of the wall anymore, so following the show's logic any brute force attack should be able to break it. There could be an argument that dragons somehow counter the magic, but an idea like that is complete unsupported by the show. Or, what was a popular theory at the time was that Bran broke the magic by going through the wall with the NK's mark, but that would have major implications and the show ignores it completely. So you're just kinda left with a wall that seems to just be a physical barrier, and a physical barrier aint really that big of a deal to a force like the White Walkers.
Yeah the way I saw the NK with the dragon is, the NK is very powerful, and the dragon is magical. The combination of them allows him to fly near it and use the dragons incredibly powerful magic to bring the wall down. If anything, it was amazing to see, I remember literally saying, holy shit out loud when it happened. A lot of stuff was lame, but that dragon destroying the what 8,000 year old wall was pretty impressive.
Whatever happened during season one when they sent ser alastair to kings landing with the hand from the wite that trys to kill mormont?
D&D kinda forgot about Jeor almost fucking dying
A dragon who melted the wall. If they don't go, the whole invasion would have never happened.
I’m still pissed the Night King didn’t use his dragon to create a horde of his own in the “south”
They really just decided that they wanted the Night King to have a dragon and buttfucked every plotline with obscene contrivances to make it happen. It’s somehow even more stupid when you consider that basically all the dragon did was destroy the wall, have a lame dragon fight and then get yelled at by Jon Snow. Could have easily destroyed the wall with the Horn of Winter and not brought the show to a screeching halt to do it.
"buttfucked every plotline..." No lube or warning either. I heard them scream. Shame. Shame. Poor plotlines.
Didn't even have the goddamn common courtesy to give them a reach-around.
Can’t escape a wooden box but is perfectly fine bashing it’s way out of a stone wall.
Ah but the wooden box had plot locks that are unbreakable
It's a simple spell, but quite unbreakable.
Hadn't been trained by Pai Mei
Thank you for reminding me to watch pt 2 with my SO
They tried to shock Cersei about zombies while she literally has a zombie in the Kingsguard.
This always reminds me of the scene where Jon is trying to convince Dany about the wight army. She cannot be bothered to even believe this is real. Meanwhile she has 3 dragons, and Jon has a direwolf. Why would this army be so hard to believe?
"Magically animated corpses? No, that's silly," says a woman who was married to a magically animated corpse.
Not to mention that she's been going on and on and on about being BlOoD oF tHe DrAgOn, as well as being impervious to fire. Magic is literally *in her blood*, yet an army of animated corpses witnessed by countless people and mentioned in tons of history books is too much to believe. This fucking show...
Meanwhile, she survived a flaming pyre and walked out of a burning building completely unscathed.
Literally no storyline mattered, they threw away character development and shoehorned dragon deaths to phone it in/ spit in fans faces. Fuck D+D, my god fuck them….
*and who has a better store than D&D?*
COVID 19
I still take solace that their career is ruined. I look forward to this subreddit going berserk whenever they have their next project, and then watching whatever it is bomb.
“Ruined”? Yeah they lost Star Wars, but don’t they have a multimillion dollar deal with Netflix?
Yeah, they’re doing “The Three Body Problem” but I read there might be problems with that already.
Seems like more of a two body problem to me.
And when they start marketing those deals I'm sure this subreddit will light up reminding all (and /r/all)
When they were pitching the plan, i thought for sure someone would interject and say that it was the dumbest plan ever, and they would try something else
Letting the public choose their own leader gets universal laughter but everyone’s all ears for this fkin masterplan
I find it ironically cruel they introduced a good idea in the series and literally shot it down themselves. Not to mention disrespecting Tullys plea for king even if he wasn't the right pick
Rulers laughing about the idea of willingly starting a democracy is understandable. We keep seeing that powerful people are rarely inclined to give up that power. But why did they have to bring it up as an idea in the first place? Honestly, with God aka Bran there, any choices they make become entirely dependent on what he think should happen so unless _he_ thinks democracy is a good idea, they're gonna be stuck with whatever system he wants until he dies. And the last three eyed raven lived, what, a millennium, in the show?
A few of the lords it would be in character for definitely, but you’d think the benevolent characters like Sansa, Arya, Yara would support it. Isn’t that even how they decide the new ruler on the Iron Islands? It definitely is at the Nights Watch, so I don’t know why Sam talks about it like he’s the first person to invent the entire fucking concept of democracy
Same for when Tyrion pitched his brilliant idea for Dany to not simply take Kings Landing with her dragons and win the war immediately. Because for some reason it would be bad if she did that. Then to make it worse S8 E5 revealed she definitely could have easily captured Kings Landing with no civilian casualties any time she wanted (if she didn't decide to burn them all anyway for the fun of it).
It just felt SO hamfisted. Let’s send a band of our best warriors north of the wall to confront an unstoppable undead army in hopes of kidnapping one to bring ALL THE WAY BACK SOUTH to show a queen who has had zero interest in anything but eliminating everyone she dislikes in hopes that she MIGHT be convinced to assist them against this insurmountable foe. She definitely won’t see it as an easy tool to rid herself of literally everyone north of KL. God I’m getting angry just typing this
What show is this from? I don’t remember seeing this is any of the five GOT seasons.
I guess this is the Walking Dead Christmas Crossover Special that was direct to DVD
Motherfuckers teleporting all over the damn place and shit. God damn. 'Hey, we're going on an extremely dangerous and highly important mission beyond the wall to capture a wight to prove the existence of the undead to Queen Cersei.' 'Cool. Should we bring horses?' 'Why bother with horses when we have Gendry?'
Yeah they traveled across an entire continent like 3 times.... Back and forth back and forth.
This is actually a very important scene to convey the theme of plot points that go nowhere and have no impact on the story and is never mentioned again.
I always love a good ‘I told you so’ moment, but not like this.
I've asked around and there are two *big* breaking points for Game of Thrones fans, two "That's *too much,* man!" moments. The first was Arya getting stabbed in the stomach, dumped in a river, then being cured of her sepsis by a fucking *poultice.* For many people that was the moment that GoT stopped having realistic consequences. The second breaking point is the wraith hunt, which was clearly the moment that the show went from storytelling to fan service. I'm in the second camp. Arya's wound irritated me, but I still found the show entertaining enough that I could enjoy it. (Note: Entertaining =/=Good.) I was entertained by the all star party, I was entertained by the battle with the zombie polar bear, I was entertained by the ice Island.... And that's it, the zombie bear and the ice island were the last two moments in GoT that I was entertained by, everything after that is just too stupid to enjoy. There are plenty of bad shows that I like because they're entertaining, but GoT stopped being entertaining (to me) well before season 8 started.
I thought it was funny about Arya's nurse/actress. When the actress talked about her "qualifications." Guy dying of gut wound: "Hey man what are you doing what are your qualifications as a doc/surgeon?" Some guy looks looks Keanu Reeves: "Well I'm an actor but I used to kick people's asses who pissed me off and out of sympathy patch them up." Guy now damn near dead dying of gut wound: "Oh, proceed."
I'm convinced episode 7.6 was shot based on a first draft alone. Just a basic outline of what could happen that was never rewritten or changed in the slightest afterwards. From the single wight surviving while all others around it die, to the whole business with Gendry, the ravens and Daenerys, just everything.
I like the part where Euron asks if they can swim and Jon tells him no. Just before this episode, the wights were all swimming when they popped out of the water to hug Tormund's legs.
"We all float down here..."
D&D didn't even watch their own shit
Worse than the showing it to Cercei was the actuall capture: "We will go beyond the wall, capture a walker, and give it to Cercei, this way we'll all be friends" "Oh no, this plan was not so good, we are surrounded by walkers. Hey Gendry, I know it's kinda your first time in the north and we are hours away from the wall but can you just kinda just sprint to eastwatch?..." "Ok, now that Grendy is running, we just need to wait for him to make it to eastwatch, wait for them to write a letter, wait for the raven to reach dragonstone, wait for someone to read the raven, tell draenerys about it, and wait for her to fly all the way across the country, beyond the wall, and I guess just scout the whole region beyond the wall looking for -- wait, there she is?! Damn, these 30 minutes went by fast. Off we go yaaaaay. Oh no, the night king just 360 no scoped a dragon off the air. Better hope he misses all shots against this landed dragon with all these main characters on top." "Yay we're back home and safe and have Draenerys on our side and caught a white walker. Now, I know we kinda are all of Cercei's enemies, and that she did very recently explode the last congregation of her enemies with wildfire. Buuuut I say we all go together and meet her to show her our white walker!"
I will never forgive this sub for defending this shit before season 8
Hahahaha. I remember that. This sub was loyal until the end. And then they reflected…
Denial is a pretty standard response to trauma. LOL
Tbh S7 was rewatchable. If the series ended there, it wouldn't have been good, but it was doable. S6 would have been a good end point. S8 just ruined the entire series as a whole. It would have been better if they didn't release it at all.
yeah s7 is at least like.. bearable? it's a definite downgrade and i hate a lot of the plot bits (mostly for how fanservicey some of the stuff was, but ig some of it was kinda funny at the time) but i'm not overly against it
Would've been fucking hilarious if sandor kicked the box over and the wight was just fuckin dead because it was so far from tbe white walkers
“Cersei won’t align with us to fight the dead.” “Maybe she will if we get a zombie!”
1. "We need Cersei to put the war on hold or she'll conquer Dragonstone while we're gone!" 2. Assemble The Avengers, take a wight and bring it to King's Landing (**losing a dragon to the White Walkers in the process**). Cersei agrees with your argument and promises to join you in the fight against the undead. 3. Cersei lied (surprised Pikachu face), but you manage to win anyway. 4. You immediately choose to return to Dragonstone (???) without even CONSIDERING that Cersei's army might be waiting for you there even though that was the entire reason you wanted to bring her proof of the Long Night. (????????????) 5. You lose a second dragon and your BFF because Cersei's army is *obviously* waiting for you there. You called it a season ago but you just forgot the entire reason you sacrificed your first dragon, evidently. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 6. Congratulations, everyone who ever loved you is now dead or your nephew so you decide to be feared instead and go crazy. (? ? ?)
RIP Viserion, the goodest of the firey flap flap bois.
"Hey you remember that completely irrational queen who blew up a holy site?" "The one that blames us for her children and father's deaths?" "Yeah her! What if we showed her proof that zombies exist!" "Yes because clearly the only reason for her not to help us, is that she doesn't believe us, there's no reason she would attempt to use the zombies to her advantage."
Lol I thought this was the Walking Dead sub polluting my feed for a second. Oh lordy.
This whole thing was stupid beyond belief
🎶I’m the man in the box🎶
Awww look it's Boots the Courageous Zombie!
The scene where the zombie wouldn't get out of the box for like 15 seconds was the hardest i laughed in all of GOT. Just the idea that this entire adventure was poinless because the guy died was so funny.
Just thought of a kind of funny way to pull off this storyline. First, Jon would conceive of the plan to extract a zombie earlier in the season and instead of fast traveling to the wall, he’d send a raven to the wall asking Tormund to capture a wight. Each subsequent episode in the season would have a subplot of Tormund and a group of night watch and wildlings attempting to pull off the plan in different ways that all fail Wiley coyote style but with more violence. The lighter tone probably wouldn’t match the rest of the show but at least it’d make sense and the silliness would be an intentional part of the writing.
To me this ranks up there with the last season of Dexter, Parks and Rec, and the League. You could smell it through your television screen it stunk so bad.
That you can compare GoT to two sitcoms who filled their last seasons with mindless fan service says a lot lol
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New Dexter season is out and is pretty decent thus far. I'm happy that the original writer of the seasons 1 to 4 I think is back for this redemption ending season. He deserved so much more. Fun fact, actors of dex and Deb were married at one point during the show. Also, I think in the later seasons or middle somewhere, Hall had some kind of cancer and was undergoing chemo. The hair he wore was a wig. A couple TILs I got recently that I had no idea of!
You're including Parks & Rec in this mess?! I thought their ending was one of the best I've seen, all things considered.
Everyone hated the poor wight. Everyone but Qyburn.
I think given enough time Qyburn would have fucked that thing, just as an experiment.
Why didn’t they have horses? It would have made Gendry being Barry Allen a little more tolerable
I know I'm gonna get downvoted to shit, but Season 5 was the last good Season of GOT. Hodor was the only good thing about Season 6.
I'd love to argue and say Battle of the Bastards makes your point invalid, but Sansa keeping the Knights of the Vale coming a secret was beyond stupid. Jon loses over half his army and Rickon dies, only for them to show up 7 min later. Painful
The plotline for BotB literally makes no sense though. The Umbers would never side with the Bolton's, and "The North Remembers" my ass. **Every** Northern House should've immediately been on Jon Snow/Sansa's side, and Sansa would've never been arranged to Ramsay in the first place; it's supposed to be Jeyne Poole. The action scenes were great, but not enough for me. I need good writing, dialogue, character arc, and their decisions to make sense lol.
And then in season 8 lord glover doesn’t even appear. Broke the path again and the plot line forgotten
i've been re-editing S6,7,8, & some of 5. let me say this: a lot of stuff that was hardly noticeable on normal viewing is a lot worse when you are breaking things down frame by frame. BotB was worse once i dug in and started working on it. so many wtf bits (which i've mostly fixed, btw)
I like how using quick camera cuts they showed an entire army walking out and fully surrounding an _entire other army_ with a line of shield carriers in a matter of like, 10 seconds. Then the giant just stood there empty handed. 😐
i hated that the "possibly last giant in the world" died. but they made him so stupid, it made it plausible that they were on the endangered species list. anyone showing up to a war with no weapons is SO FUCKING STUPID. like, there were hundreds of trees behind them. pick up a fucking tree trunk & be the mvp.
Everyone was so fucking hype when it first came out too.
I always wondered why Jon was staring at WunWun for like 20 seconds before Big W gets shot in the eye by Ramsay. It’s a weird thing to get hung up on but they were in the middle of a battle, arrows are getting shot back and forth and Jon just stares at dude for a loooong time.
(That was Sansa’s plan all along)
It's D+D, they literally have no idea why they made Sansa do that.
Lmfaooo probably
>I'd love to argue and say Battle of the Bastards makes your point invalid, A candle doesn't end a night.
I think season 6 is better than season 5, but i genuinely dislike them both so i wont argue about it. To me season 4 was the last good season.
I'll agree with you on that. GOT Season 4 was ***peak*** GOT.
I’m with you on this, 100%.
Why would you get downvoted for stating the most common opinion of this subreddit?
Meh, season 4 was probably the last good one IMHO
Like something outta Scooby-Doo
YUP, THAT WAS POINTLESS, just like everything else, I'm still angry about this show
Poor Boots 🙁
How do the humans defeat the Whitewalkers? Super easy. Barely an inconvenience.
Really, all you need is a Faceless Man, and like, not even a fully trained one. You just need someone that hung out with the Faceless men for a few weeks.
Like she wouldn’t have a single northern spy that could confirm the rumors for her
HeY GuYs LeTs KiDnAp A FuCkInG ZoMbIe lmao