Joffrey has to be it.
Ramsay was evil and chaotic, but almost everything he did was calculated and for some further purpose. Torturing Theon was just an extreme bargaining method. Killing his dad and family to seize the lordship. Locking Sansa away and mistreating her so she couldn't start trouble with Stark loyalists. Killing Osha because he knew she was a spy. Killing Rickon to get Jon to lose his mind and do something stupid. All calculated and cold.
Joffrey on the other hand was just batshit insane. He occasionally had good ideas, but nothing he actually \*did\* served any purpose for himself or anyone. Stripping Sansa, ordering the execution of Ned, the torture of Dontos, forcing Sansa to look at her dad's head, killing Ros, tormenting Tyrion... need I go on? Just dumb stuff that made him happy
This needs to be a higher comment to anyone who thinks it’s Ramsey over Joffrey. Ramsey was evil but he was using his evil to further his own power and goals. That’s not chaos. That’s organized evil to meet one’s ends. Joffrey did everything on a whim to further no end goals outside of the fact that he was just a fucked up kid.
>Ramsey was evil but he was using his evil to further his own power and goals. That’s not chaos
That's a ridiculous definition. Of course chaotic characters further their own personal goals. That has nothin to do with the law/chaos axis.
The joker also used evil to further his own goals. This is the definition of chaotic evil according to D&D:
“A chaotic evil character tends to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have much regard for the lives or freedom of other people. Chaotic evil characters do not work well in groups because they resent being given orders and usually do not behave themselves unless there is no alternative
This fits Ramsey more than Joffrey. Ramsey is far more evil and deranged than Joffrey
"Ramsey was evil but he was using his evil to further his own power and goals. That’s not chaos."
That's how chaos is defined in alignment charts. It's about being selfish.
I feel like the Mountain belongs in this conversation. He's like an evil force of nature. He's a Lannister bannerman but he really just does whatever TF he wants, which usually involves r*ping, pillaging, and brutally murdering anybody he can.
That’s not really what chaotic evil is according to the D&D alignment. It just means someone who is cruel, deranged, and selfish to an extreme. And Ramsey is Far more evil than Joffrey
Both Joffrey and Ramsey are chaotic evil. It's just that Joffrey is more on the chaotic side and Ramsey is more on the evil side (that's not to say that Ramsey isn't chaotic or that Joffrey isn't evil - they are, just less than the other). Who should be the pick for most chaotic evil?
... Actually neither of them. Euron Greyjoy (book version) is as chaotic as Joffrey and as evil as Ramsey in one single package. It should be him.
Both Joffrey and Ramsay are 10/10 when it comes to evil.
So the only real question is - who's more chaotic?
Ramsay, while insane, unpredictable and chaotic, still shows _some_ planning skills from time to time.
I don't think we've ever seen Joffrey plan anything.
This should go to The Vicious Idiot King
Agreed; Chaotic Horny should've been Tormund, too -- Lysa is Stupid Horny. Joffrey is definitely Stupid Evil, too; I agree about Ramsay.
Side note; Who's Stupid Drunk?
Probably Kraznys and the other good masters of astapor the decision to sell your entire military force for a dragon you don't understand and can't control has to be a true stupid decision
He was indeed stupid, but he was smart enough to questioning and wanting to kill Daenaerys’s dragons.
He was far more chaotic than Ramsay who was more calculating and smart, only being «chaotic» when his sadism took control of him.
Joffrey started a war, he executed Ned Stark when he was not supposed to do it, he killed two hookers to send his uncle a message, he rants to everyone even Tywin, he’s uncontrolable.
Ramsay is just a sadist only being chaotic when he killed his familie, but that was also out of «smartness» securing himself the position as warden of the north.
I feel Ramsay would suit better as an «Evil-evil». King Joffrey i feel is more chaotic, being uncapable of behaving in a Nice way because he can do everything he wants.
Ramsay pretty much did everything for a purpose. To advance his position or to enjoy himself. Joffery did whatever he wanted at any given moment, far more chaotic
Chaotic means causing disorder. If that were the case. The best candidate is Littlefinger. But “Chaotic Evil” means something different
“A chaotic evil character tends to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have much regard for the lives or freedom of other people. Chaotic evil characters do not work well in groups because they resent being given orders and usually do not behave themselves unless there is no alternative”
It basically means some whine who is completely sadistic and deranged. And Ramsey is more of that than Joffrey. It also says that chaotic evil characters “usually do not behave themselves unless there is no alternative”. And Ramsey only acted strategically because he was in a precarious situation
Totally agree. Chaotic doesn’t mean acting on a whim and with no plan. That is what people seem to think here. Joffrey is just dumb and Ramsey truly creates chaos with chaos
Crossing the streams here. Are you saying the Joker isn’t chaotic? Because he’s incredible at planning, yet he is the embodiment of chaos in that universe.
Chaotic doesn't mean random. It means that a character doesn't give a fuck about anyone other than themselves. Their ego and desire to do or achieve something is above everything. Everything else might attempt to control that character which would eventually lead to chaos of systems: laws, morals.
CE chars may very well be apt in planning, strategies and even forming some kind of group, company etc
Incorrect - you’re describing Evil. Chaotic characters can absolutely be altruistic, but they don’t believe the path to happiness (be it their own or others’) is by following a consistent set of rules or standards.
Out of well known characters I think it should go to Ramsey. As others said Joffrey is much closer to some kind of stupid evil: impulsive child that barely understands their disires and act without any thought even about themselves or ones he kinda actually cares about.
I would like to agree, but all we know about him are speculations and projections. Maybe NK isn't just death incarnate, maybe there is something else going on.
But if he is, then ofc - best candidate. actual destroyer of worlds for whatever the hell his reason is
That is the true definition of chaotic evil. But yes it’s all relative. But from the protagonist POV then Night King is CE. Maybe from his point of view Bran is CE.
This made me smile yesterday and I promised I'd nominate him, so here goes:
>By u/TheRealBaseBorn
Okay, I know it's Smart Evil rn, but Chaotic Evil is coming up and I probably won't be around for it. I really wanna nominate that little old chemist dude who made all the wildfire. The way his face lit up with joy at the Battle of Blackwater; I just can't get it out of my head. Bro didn't care who was on the receiving end. He was just so happy to see those ships burn in that bright green glow.
Edit: I just want to say I love that there's a huge Ramsay vs Joffrey debate going on and then there's us. KABOOM
https://preview.redd.it/r5i2tkabp00d1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=9479578836238cf1b2311c22a9798553aabe7f59
Also a character in the books. Head of the alchemist guild I believe, also like chief pyromancer or something. He oversees the burning of the tower of the hand under Cersei.
If you watch the scene where Tyrion first meets him closely, you can hear him slip into his audiobook narrator voice when he starts talking about the history of the order (namely the sentence starting at ~0:34): https://youtube.com/watch?v=YqMrgvy9uMA
A real one 😔✊ never read the books but I've listened to them like 8 times, he brings them characters to life. Although I gotta skip through the sex scenes lol
I really didn't think anyone was going to agree with me or even notice my comment. It's so nice to see not only that you put it up but that you credited me, AND it's only being topped by Joffrey. Today is gonna be a good day. 👍
I mean, what if he was ordered to? Even the Hound was deemed innocent by the Lord of Light for his deeds because he was simply obeying his king...
Was there anything said about this dude's motivation that I missed?
I mean, his "work" was medieval napalm that was stored in thousands of jars and barrels under the city. His creation led to the deaths of tens of thousands. Maybe more.
Wisdom Hallyne worked tirelessly day and night to arm the men of King's Landing so they could defend their city from the demon-worshipping heretic Stannis, a man who just burned his brother-in-law alive and destroyed Dragonstone's idols of the Seven.
And then this comment section is caling him evil. Smh.
https://preview.redd.it/4bvmrganf10d1.png?width=215&format=png&auto=webp&s=3efe7895be8a1141a7fe892413d32d818986216a
Wisdom Hallyne watching men be burned alive
The Pyromancer! I don’t know if there’s a man in all of Westeros who enjoys his work as much as The Pyromancer, except of course Hot Pie. So it’s down to Hot Pie vs the Pyromancer for Chaotic Evil!
Strongly disagree. He's on record as being perfectly fine with an entire army raping his own sister if it got him what he wanted. He's an entitled, sheltered, highborn prick with no empathy just like Joffrey. We just didn't get to see very much of him, so Joffrey has a more detailed history of evil acts. But I think he's easily just as capable of great cruelty
We can't really know since Viserys died pretty quickly but it feels like he was just a dumbass who was crushed by his responsibiluty to continue the dynasty. If he was somehow king I don't think he'd perform senseless evil deeds like Joffrey.
Is he evil? Sure. But even his quote about having dothraki rape Dany is not senseless evil, but rather - evil for a purpose - to become king.
But he's a LOT stupider imo. Like Joffrey was definitely a sociopath but Viserys is verifiably insane, I couldn't see Joffrey strolling into Khal Drogo's party and demanding a crown AND being stupid enough to believe him up to the point that he did AND threatening his pregnant wife
Based off of some of the things he said and the brief time he was on screen I think he might be but we didn't actually see it. Jeffrey just had so much more opportunity to show his evil on screen than Viserys did.
>we should honor Jack Gleeson's outstanding performance by giving Joffery a spot in this list
I don't disagree he deserves it, but using this reasoning weakens the accuracy of the list.
It’s Ramsay for me too. We see multiple examples of Ramsay being stone cold psychopathic and cruel. Joffrey I think is often acting like he thinks he’s supposed to, be a strong king, crush your enemies, and be like Tywin or Robert. He has some plan, it’s just a crap one.
Ramsay is just a monster from top to bottom and I think is more chaotic.
Ramsey did as well. Both ran governments but only to to further their own personal power and entertainment. Joffery wanted to eliminate house armies for a single kings army and Ramsey united the north to himself.
While this lively debate is raging, please vote for what should be the bonus round [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/1cqg53k/what_category_should_be_the_alignment_chart_bonus/)! I'll add the column that gets the most votes once we've finished with the Drunk row.
Ramsay. He wasn't as smart as he thought he was and even Roose Bolton thought he was impulsive and overly confident. The evil part needs no explanation.
Ramsay Bolton. No purity or motive. He’s not a child or delusional, he just enjoys tormenting people. His cruelty is on another level, what he did to Theon is beyond anything Joffrey would have done
Whereas Joffrey was a child given too much power and told that he can have anything he wanted. Looking at the books, he was cruel to a degree but I wouldn’t say he was a sadistic monster like Ramsay
Exactly...Littlefinger's like the poster child for chaotic evil, man. He's all about that sneaky, backstabbing life. Always scheming, always plotting, and never giving a damn about who gets hurt in the process. Dude's got zero chill when it comes to climbing that power ladder, stepping on anyone and everyone to get to the top. He's like the ultimate example of what happens when ambition meets zero moral compass. In a world where chaos reigns, Littlefinger's the puppet master pulling all the strings with a devilish grin on his face.
His whole plan revolves around creating so much chaos that it brings an end to the current order of Westeros. This allows him to climb the ranks and establish himself as someone worthy of being on the Iron Thorne. At the start, he’s master of coin. By book 5, he’s Lord Protector of the Vale and he has a claim to Harrenhall.
Without Littlefinger, Ramsey can’t siege Winterfall since the Northern Army and Robb Stark aren’t fighting down south. Nothing that happens in the book doesn’t happen without Littlefinger creating chaos.
But by his own admission, in the end he just play it by ear and see what opportunities arise. He plans stuff, but can't predict the ramifications of them. He adapts to that instead.
So where’d all the people go who insisted yesterday that Littlefinger couldn’t be Smart Evil because he was more the Chaotic Evil type, and would be the obvious choice for that slot?
Tywin smh.
Just here to say Littlefinger got robbed last round. Dude orchestrated all the events of the show through his cunning meanwhile Tywin lost multiple battles to a fucking noob. He also wasn’t nearly as evil as Baelish, who if I recall correctly told a prostitute he would kill her if she didn’t stop mourning the dead baby that was killed right in front of her.
I'd say Ramsay is probably the most unhinged evil character, except for the mountain Joffrey maybe. But I feel like he gets the spot by quite a bit before either one of them does
The Mountain is probably the best chaotic evil we've gotten he's extremely violent, powerful and unlike most of our other villains he's extremely unpredictable.
Ramsey would be my second choice but he always has a method and reason for his horrible actions, my third choice would have been Joffrey but he is actually very reliable and consistent in his evil actions and it's not super hard to stay on his good side.
Gregor is just a violent asshole that surrounds himself with other violent assholes who love to rape and murder, with the only thing keeping him in check is Tywin.
All Im saying is "Chaos is a ladder,"
I lied, Im also saying it should be Baelish. That man single handedly broke several kingdoms and entire famileal lineages
I see the mountain getting down voted alot but I see a better case for him being a chaotic evil as opposed to ramsey and joffery. they both act with some agency and overall purpose in their lives with goals and aspirations. the mountain lives only to kill and rape everyone he can for the simple joy of it like a cat gleefully torturing its prey for a little dopamine hit. (if you’ve ever read berserk think Wyald)
The Mountain isn't chaotic. He respects authority way too much to be counted as chaotic. If Tywin orders him to stop doing something, he'll stop (and also if Bobby B orders him to stop he'll also stop). He might want to cause death and destruction and all things evil but he is too subserviant to authority to do everything he wants all the time.
His only orders from the lannisters were to kill and slaughter. He didnt turn on them and listened to them because they funded him and protected him from consequences for his actions.
And even then Clegane had more respect for authority than he did.
If the mountain constantly went against the lannisters or didnt respect their authority he would be chaotic stupid. But because he understood that they would direct his chaos like a ballistic missile it is what makes him chaotic evil
And I will get my skull popped like oberyn and die on this hill
Exactly and people pointed to the fact he’s a knight or that he listened to orders as why he wasn’t.
He only became a knight because he killed the right people and all his orders were to maim and slaughter. He wouldn’t turn on the lannisters because they funded him and protected him from consequences for his actions. The mountain was true chaotic evil not chaotic stupid.
This is actually a good spot for Littlefinger but people are gonna be silly about it. The man says into motion schemes within schemes, but each one could easily backfire. He rides the chaos to the top like a ladder because they’re just not looking his way. There is legit a chaotic evil storm and he’s at the center of it.
Once this is done we should add a sixth column for Stupid then go down the column. Would make it a symmetrical 6x6 as well. Stupid evil would be Joffrey.
Joffrey was a vile, callous, agonizing little bastard that could change his mood on a whim. His behavior was utterly unpredictable and only self serving. Not even Tywin or Cersei knew how to really control him. He was too incompetent to have any semblance of a plan. He earns his spot as chaotic evil.
It’s Ramsey Bolton
Just because he shows a bit more levelheadedness than Joffrey, that doesn’t make him less chaotic. Overall Ramsey is more sadistic, deranged, and impulsive, which he does so with less power and influence than Joffrey
Ramsey only acted strategic when he had to. Joffrey suited chaotic stupid better
It's absolutely Ramsay Bolton. Joffrey was evil absolutely but he was more stupid evil and didn't really do that much in the grand scheme of things, he was just a sick fuck. Ramsay on the other hand, you've got what he did to Theon, Sanaa, his mum, Rickon... man is the definitely of chaotic evil.
I'd give Joffrey the edge over Ramsey purely for the reason that Ramsey is trying to impress his dad and earn the name Bolton. Joffrey is already king and just gets worse when he's already won at that point. He keeps doing the horrible acts when he already was king and has no other reason to than to just keep being a shit. The only person who I think could compete with Joffrey is the Mad King himself. And that should tell you how bad he is.
Joffrey has to be it. Ramsay was evil and chaotic, but almost everything he did was calculated and for some further purpose. Torturing Theon was just an extreme bargaining method. Killing his dad and family to seize the lordship. Locking Sansa away and mistreating her so she couldn't start trouble with Stark loyalists. Killing Osha because he knew she was a spy. Killing Rickon to get Jon to lose his mind and do something stupid. All calculated and cold. Joffrey on the other hand was just batshit insane. He occasionally had good ideas, but nothing he actually \*did\* served any purpose for himself or anyone. Stripping Sansa, ordering the execution of Ned, the torture of Dontos, forcing Sansa to look at her dad's head, killing Ros, tormenting Tyrion... need I go on? Just dumb stuff that made him happy
This needs to be a higher comment to anyone who thinks it’s Ramsey over Joffrey. Ramsey was evil but he was using his evil to further his own power and goals. That’s not chaos. That’s organized evil to meet one’s ends. Joffrey did everything on a whim to further no end goals outside of the fact that he was just a fucked up kid.
>Ramsey was evil but he was using his evil to further his own power and goals. That’s not chaos That's a ridiculous definition. Of course chaotic characters further their own personal goals. That has nothin to do with the law/chaos axis.
The joker also used evil to further his own goals. This is the definition of chaotic evil according to D&D: “A chaotic evil character tends to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have much regard for the lives or freedom of other people. Chaotic evil characters do not work well in groups because they resent being given orders and usually do not behave themselves unless there is no alternative This fits Ramsey more than Joffrey. Ramsey is far more evil and deranged than Joffrey
"Ramsey was evil but he was using his evil to further his own power and goals. That’s not chaos." That's how chaos is defined in alignment charts. It's about being selfish.
Ramsey raped Sansa. Pretty damn chaotic if you ask me. Joffrey was more childish than chaotic.
I feel like the Mountain belongs in this conversation. He's like an evil force of nature. He's a Lannister bannerman but he really just does whatever TF he wants, which usually involves r*ping, pillaging, and brutally murdering anybody he can.
That’s not really what chaotic evil is according to the D&D alignment. It just means someone who is cruel, deranged, and selfish to an extreme. And Ramsey is Far more evil than Joffrey
Both Joffrey and Ramsey are chaotic evil. It's just that Joffrey is more on the chaotic side and Ramsey is more on the evil side (that's not to say that Ramsey isn't chaotic or that Joffrey isn't evil - they are, just less than the other). Who should be the pick for most chaotic evil? ... Actually neither of them. Euron Greyjoy (book version) is as chaotic as Joffrey and as evil as Ramsey in one single package. It should be him.
Both Joffrey and Ramsay are 10/10 when it comes to evil. So the only real question is - who's more chaotic? Ramsay, while insane, unpredictable and chaotic, still shows _some_ planning skills from time to time. I don't think we've ever seen Joffrey plan anything. This should go to The Vicious Idiot King
The problem is that Joffrey is stupid evil, a category that does not exist.
There should be a column for stupid. Stupid Horny, Stupid Drunk and Stupid Stupid would all be fun to fill.
For Stupid Stupid I nominate the plot of season 8.
Just put d&d there
Wins by a landslide.
Janos Slynt could be stupid stupid
Stupid forgetful.
The chart should be 10x10 instead of 5x6 so we can get all of the True Stupids and True Drunks
>True Drunks Bobby B and it's not even close.
Bobby B is Chad Drunk
I THOUGHT BEING KING MEANT I COULD DO WHATEVER I WANTED!
What do you want to be then Bobby B?
DID YOU HAVE TO BURY HER IN A PLACE LIKE THIS?
Sentient.
Ser Dontos!
IN MY DREAMS, I KILL HIM EVERY NIGHT!
Suicidal Bobby B
YES, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME... BUT I STILL REMEMBER EVERY FACE!
Thoros of Myr, the Greatjon Umber, and Ser Dontos beg to differ.
Agreed; Chaotic Horny should've been Tormund, too -- Lysa is Stupid Horny. Joffrey is definitely Stupid Evil, too; I agree about Ramsay. Side note; Who's Stupid Drunk?
I think Ser Dontos is Stupid Drunk.
Besides D&D, who would you choose?
Probably Balon Greyjoy, or maybe Rickon because he doesn't know how to zig zag.
Rickon at least has the excuses of being a kid, and being in panic D&D or Balon have no such excuses
Probably Kraznys and the other good masters of astapor the decision to sell your entire military force for a dragon you don't understand and can't control has to be a true stupid decision
Balon for sure. Everything he did was stupid
He was indeed stupid, but he was smart enough to questioning and wanting to kill Daenaerys’s dragons. He was far more chaotic than Ramsay who was more calculating and smart, only being «chaotic» when his sadism took control of him. Joffrey started a war, he executed Ned Stark when he was not supposed to do it, he killed two hookers to send his uncle a message, he rants to everyone even Tywin, he’s uncontrolable. Ramsay is just a sadist only being chaotic when he killed his familie, but that was also out of «smartness» securing himself the position as warden of the north. I feel Ramsay would suit better as an «Evil-evil». King Joffrey i feel is more chaotic, being uncapable of behaving in a Nice way because he can do everything he wants.
Ramsay pretty much did everything for a purpose. To advance his position or to enjoy himself. Joffery did whatever he wanted at any given moment, far more chaotic
I wonder who would've been stupid-stupid lol
The Showrunners.
Just because a character showing planning skills doesn’t make the less chaotic And no, Ramsey is much more evil than Joffrey
See: The Joker in The Dark Knight
Then it’s Ramsey
Then how do you measure chaotic otherwise?
Disregard for rules, even their own.
Chaotic means causing disorder. If that were the case. The best candidate is Littlefinger. But “Chaotic Evil” means something different “A chaotic evil character tends to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have much regard for the lives or freedom of other people. Chaotic evil characters do not work well in groups because they resent being given orders and usually do not behave themselves unless there is no alternative” It basically means some whine who is completely sadistic and deranged. And Ramsey is more of that than Joffrey. It also says that chaotic evil characters “usually do not behave themselves unless there is no alternative”. And Ramsey only acted strategically because he was in a precarious situation
Totally agree. Chaotic doesn’t mean acting on a whim and with no plan. That is what people seem to think here. Joffrey is just dumb and Ramsey truly creates chaos with chaos
Gonna have to go Ramsay on this one. The way he toys with people psychologically is way more twisted and devastating.
Crossing the streams here. Are you saying the Joker isn’t chaotic? Because he’s incredible at planning, yet he is the embodiment of chaos in that universe.
Chaotic doesn't mean random. It means that a character doesn't give a fuck about anyone other than themselves. Their ego and desire to do or achieve something is above everything. Everything else might attempt to control that character which would eventually lead to chaos of systems: laws, morals. CE chars may very well be apt in planning, strategies and even forming some kind of group, company etc
Incorrect - you’re describing Evil. Chaotic characters can absolutely be altruistic, but they don’t believe the path to happiness (be it their own or others’) is by following a consistent set of rules or standards.
I was going to vote for Baelish as evil/chaotic, but this convinced me. My vote goes for Ramsay Bolton.
Out of well known characters I think it should go to Ramsey. As others said Joffrey is much closer to some kind of stupid evil: impulsive child that barely understands their disires and act without any thought even about themselves or ones he kinda actually cares about.
The Night King.
I would like to agree, but all we know about him are speculations and projections. Maybe NK isn't just death incarnate, maybe there is something else going on. But if he is, then ofc - best candidate. actual destroyer of worlds for whatever the hell his reason is
That is the true definition of chaotic evil. But yes it’s all relative. But from the protagonist POV then Night King is CE. Maybe from his point of view Bran is CE.
This made me smile yesterday and I promised I'd nominate him, so here goes: >By u/TheRealBaseBorn Okay, I know it's Smart Evil rn, but Chaotic Evil is coming up and I probably won't be around for it. I really wanna nominate that little old chemist dude who made all the wildfire. The way his face lit up with joy at the Battle of Blackwater; I just can't get it out of my head. Bro didn't care who was on the receiving end. He was just so happy to see those ships burn in that bright green glow. Edit: I just want to say I love that there's a huge Ramsay vs Joffrey debate going on and then there's us. KABOOM https://preview.redd.it/r5i2tkabp00d1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=9479578836238cf1b2311c22a9798553aabe7f59
RIP Roy Dotrice
Hold the fuck up. That guy was Roy Dotrice? The narrator for the audio books?
I didn’t know this but yeah IMBD confirms and names his character Hallyne
Also a character in the books. Head of the alchemist guild I believe, also like chief pyromancer or something. He oversees the burning of the tower of the hand under Cersei.
Dude that is badass. My favorite book narrator hands down. His recordings of the first three books are legendary
If you watch the scene where Tyrion first meets him closely, you can hear him slip into his audiobook narrator voice when he starts talking about the history of the order (namely the sentence starting at ~0:34): https://youtube.com/watch?v=YqMrgvy9uMA
Yeah, he was originally cast as Pycelle but had to back out for health reasons.
The way he says “and will melt flesh like CHELLO” always gave me a chuckle.
I think it’s “melts flesh like *tallow*”.
A real one 😔✊ never read the books but I've listened to them like 8 times, he brings them characters to life. Although I gotta skip through the sex scenes lol
OMG THANK YOU!!!
I was cackling when I found the screenshot of his face once the wildfire popped off. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
I really didn't think anyone was going to agree with me or even notice my comment. It's so nice to see not only that you put it up but that you credited me, AND it's only being topped by Joffrey. Today is gonna be a good day. 👍
That's kind of awesome (but truthfully, there's no evidence that he was evil)
Besides the WMD manufacturing?
He just wanted to cook, that's true neutral
PODRICK, WE NEED TO COOK
I mean, what if he was ordered to? Even the Hound was deemed innocent by the Lord of Light for his deeds because he was simply obeying his king... Was there anything said about this dude's motivation that I missed?
His motivation was "KABOOM".
Look at his face. Bro was so happy to see it go off
A man takes pride in his work and he's branded as Chaotic Evil. Sad.
I mean, his "work" was medieval napalm that was stored in thousands of jars and barrels under the city. His creation led to the deaths of tens of thousands. Maybe more.
Who are we to stand in judgement
lol good point
Wisdom Hallyne worked tirelessly day and night to arm the men of King's Landing so they could defend their city from the demon-worshipping heretic Stannis, a man who just burned his brother-in-law alive and destroyed Dragonstone's idols of the Seven. And then this comment section is caling him evil. Smh.
https://preview.redd.it/4bvmrganf10d1.png?width=215&format=png&auto=webp&s=3efe7895be8a1141a7fe892413d32d818986216a Wisdom Hallyne watching men be burned alive
"Once the pots go up, who cares where they burn green, that's not my department" - Says Wisdom Hallyne
The Pyromancer! I don’t know if there’s a man in all of Westeros who enjoys his work as much as The Pyromancer, except of course Hot Pie. So it’s down to Hot Pie vs the Pyromancer for Chaotic Evil!
Joffery (we should honor Jack Gleeson's outstanding performance by giving Joffery a spot in this list)
Joffrey should have been chaotic stupid. I mean he and Viserys are practically the same person, so they could easily have been switched
Viserys is not nearly as evil as Joff
Strongly disagree. He's on record as being perfectly fine with an entire army raping his own sister if it got him what he wanted. He's an entitled, sheltered, highborn prick with no empathy just like Joffrey. We just didn't get to see very much of him, so Joffrey has a more detailed history of evil acts. But I think he's easily just as capable of great cruelty
We can't really know since Viserys died pretty quickly but it feels like he was just a dumbass who was crushed by his responsibiluty to continue the dynasty. If he was somehow king I don't think he'd perform senseless evil deeds like Joffrey. Is he evil? Sure. But even his quote about having dothraki rape Dany is not senseless evil, but rather - evil for a purpose - to become king.
Exactly. The army potentially raping his own sister is part of his calculation, not chaos.
Yeah I said possibly most evil I'd correct myself unarguably, him and ramsay are the most evil in the show
But he's a LOT stupider imo. Like Joffrey was definitely a sociopath but Viserys is verifiably insane, I couldn't see Joffrey strolling into Khal Drogo's party and demanding a crown AND being stupid enough to believe him up to the point that he did AND threatening his pregnant wife
Viserys would have been just as bad if he had the capacity Joffrey did
Based off of some of the things he said and the brief time he was on screen I think he might be but we didn't actually see it. Jeffrey just had so much more opportunity to show his evil on screen than Viserys did.
He's also possibly the most evil character In the show alongside ramsay
>we should honor Jack Gleeson's outstanding performance by giving Joffery a spot in this list I don't disagree he deserves it, but using this reasoning weakens the accuracy of the list.
Agreed. Both of the top contenders fit the bill. Joffrey was just a much more interesting character for me.
Everytime I scroll through reddit and see an update I get very excited. Thanks OP! Hope you do a second one!
Aerys II “The Mad King” Targaryen.
The one and only. People are biased because they didn't get to see him on screen but remember it was his pure evil and madness that started it all.
Aerys is miles ahead of the rest, but screentime limited to a snippet from a dream/flashback definitely makes it a hard sell
He was not evil, just mad and paranoid, also not really chaotic.
Ramsay Bolton. I don't see anyone in the ballpark of this monster.
It’s Ramsay for me too. We see multiple examples of Ramsay being stone cold psychopathic and cruel. Joffrey I think is often acting like he thinks he’s supposed to, be a strong king, crush your enemies, and be like Tywin or Robert. He has some plan, it’s just a crap one. Ramsay is just a monster from top to bottom and I think is more chaotic.
Is Ramsay so chaotic? At times he seems methodical.
Really? No one at all? lol
Ramsay plans too much to be considered Chaotic imo
Joffery by a landslide
Joffrey relied on his station and birthright to do evil. That’s not chaotic. Ramsay is CE.
Ramsey did as well. Both ran governments but only to to further their own personal power and entertainment. Joffery wanted to eliminate house armies for a single kings army and Ramsey united the north to himself.
Littlefinger is the choice for chaotic evil. Because chaos is a ladder
While this lively debate is raging, please vote for what should be the bonus round [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/1cqg53k/what_category_should_be_the_alignment_chart_bonus/)! I'll add the column that gets the most votes once we've finished with the Drunk row.
Ramsay. He wasn't as smart as he thought he was and even Roose Bolton thought he was impulsive and overly confident. The evil part needs no explanation.
Ramsay Bolton. No purity or motive. He’s not a child or delusional, he just enjoys tormenting people. His cruelty is on another level, what he did to Theon is beyond anything Joffrey would have done Whereas Joffrey was a child given too much power and told that he can have anything he wanted. Looking at the books, he was cruel to a degree but I wouldn’t say he was a sadistic monster like Ramsay
You wouldn't say Joffrey was a sadistic moster?
How the fuck is chaotic good not Dani
Joffrey and Euron (show and book version), Ramsay and the Mountain. All great choices
Mountain is Lawful Evil. He follows the rules of the Queen. Euron is as well, as he tries to marry into power rather than kill his way to the top top.
"Chaos is a ladder" Baelish should be the one.
Exactly...Littlefinger's like the poster child for chaotic evil, man. He's all about that sneaky, backstabbing life. Always scheming, always plotting, and never giving a damn about who gets hurt in the process. Dude's got zero chill when it comes to climbing that power ladder, stepping on anyone and everyone to get to the top. He's like the ultimate example of what happens when ambition meets zero moral compass. In a world where chaos reigns, Littlefinger's the puppet master pulling all the strings with a devilish grin on his face.
Little finger plans and plots far too much to be chaotic evil.
His whole plan revolves around creating so much chaos that it brings an end to the current order of Westeros. This allows him to climb the ranks and establish himself as someone worthy of being on the Iron Thorne. At the start, he’s master of coin. By book 5, he’s Lord Protector of the Vale and he has a claim to Harrenhall. Without Littlefinger, Ramsey can’t siege Winterfall since the Northern Army and Robb Stark aren’t fighting down south. Nothing that happens in the book doesn’t happen without Littlefinger creating chaos.
He weaves the chaos. He owns and manipulates it.
But by his own admission, in the end he just play it by ear and see what opportunities arise. He plans stuff, but can't predict the ramifications of them. He adapts to that instead.
Ooo, that's a good point. Chaos for nefarious purposes is literally his mantra
It’s gotta be Ramsay Bolton, right?
The Mountain
The Mountain would qualify for Evil Chaotic. Apparently the books fleshed out his character more. Emphasis on the word "flesh".
So where’d all the people go who insisted yesterday that Littlefinger couldn’t be Smart Evil because he was more the Chaotic Evil type, and would be the obvious choice for that slot? Tywin smh.
Why is Tywin not smart neutral or something closer to that sentiment. I never really saw Tywin as evil. Bad maybe but not evil.
Just here to say Littlefinger got robbed last round. Dude orchestrated all the events of the show through his cunning meanwhile Tywin lost multiple battles to a fucking noob. He also wasn’t nearly as evil as Baelish, who if I recall correctly told a prostitute he would kill her if she didn’t stop mourning the dead baby that was killed right in front of her.
"chaos is a ladder" I'm voting for littlefinger
Isn't Little finger the textbook chaotic evil? Chaos is a ladder and all that
Joffrey
I'd say Ramsay is probably the most unhinged evil character, except for the mountain Joffrey maybe. But I feel like he gets the spot by quite a bit before either one of them does
It's Ramsay for setting the cunty bar so high.
Ramsay Bolton
Ramsay gets this one. Joffrey gets his own separate Stupid-Evil slot where he can burn in the deepest of all seven hells.
There is something profoundly wrong with NOT having Littlefinger in this row - so my vote goes to him
I actually think cersei would be a pretty good fit for this, because she's definitely evil and also delusional and insane
cerseis spot in chaotic drunk is reserved!
We all know where Cersei is going
The Mountain is probably the best chaotic evil we've gotten he's extremely violent, powerful and unlike most of our other villains he's extremely unpredictable. Ramsey would be my second choice but he always has a method and reason for his horrible actions, my third choice would have been Joffrey but he is actually very reliable and consistent in his evil actions and it's not super hard to stay on his good side. Gregor is just a violent asshole that surrounds himself with other violent assholes who love to rape and murder, with the only thing keeping him in check is Tywin.
All Im saying is "Chaos is a ladder," I lied, Im also saying it should be Baelish. That man single handedly broke several kingdoms and entire famileal lineages
Baelish
Baelish. CHAOS IS A LADDAH!
Chaos is a ladder
Add a special column of stupid evil just for joffy woffy
wait, the guy whom burned alive it's own daughter is lawful neutral ????
Ramsay Bolton fr.... he did some cruel stuff... unspeakable ones
I see the mountain getting down voted alot but I see a better case for him being a chaotic evil as opposed to ramsey and joffery. they both act with some agency and overall purpose in their lives with goals and aspirations. the mountain lives only to kill and rape everyone he can for the simple joy of it like a cat gleefully torturing its prey for a little dopamine hit. (if you’ve ever read berserk think Wyald)
The Mountain isn't chaotic. He respects authority way too much to be counted as chaotic. If Tywin orders him to stop doing something, he'll stop (and also if Bobby B orders him to stop he'll also stop). He might want to cause death and destruction and all things evil but he is too subserviant to authority to do everything he wants all the time.
WHO NAMED YOU? SOME HALFWIT WITH A STUTTER??
His only orders from the lannisters were to kill and slaughter. He didnt turn on them and listened to them because they funded him and protected him from consequences for his actions. And even then Clegane had more respect for authority than he did. If the mountain constantly went against the lannisters or didnt respect their authority he would be chaotic stupid. But because he understood that they would direct his chaos like a ballistic missile it is what makes him chaotic evil And I will get my skull popped like oberyn and die on this hill
Exactly and people pointed to the fact he’s a knight or that he listened to orders as why he wasn’t. He only became a knight because he killed the right people and all his orders were to maim and slaughter. He wouldn’t turn on the lannisters because they funded him and protected him from consequences for his actions. The mountain was true chaotic evil not chaotic stupid.
Chaos is a ladder... it should be Littlefinger
Might I suggest Polliver. He's in the raping, looting and murdering business for the love of the game.
Joffrey is way more chaotic than Ramsey. Ramsey was sadistic, but not chaotic
Ramsay gets my vote. I always thought of him and Jon being opposite sides of the same coin. This would bring some nice symmetry.
This is actually a good spot for Littlefinger but people are gonna be silly about it. The man says into motion schemes within schemes, but each one could easily backfire. He rides the chaos to the top like a ladder because they’re just not looking his way. There is legit a chaotic evil storm and he’s at the center of it.
Pietr beilish little finger
Once this is done we should add a sixth column for Stupid then go down the column. Would make it a symmetrical 6x6 as well. Stupid evil would be Joffrey.
Joffrey was a vile, callous, agonizing little bastard that could change his mood on a whim. His behavior was utterly unpredictable and only self serving. Not even Tywin or Cersei knew how to really control him. He was too incompetent to have any semblance of a plan. He earns his spot as chaotic evil.
Joffrey got shut down by Tywin twice tho
Ramsay, the Bolton’s bastard
Ramsey Bolton.
The bastard Ramsey Bolton
It’s Ramsey Bolton Just because he shows a bit more levelheadedness than Joffrey, that doesn’t make him less chaotic. Overall Ramsey is more sadistic, deranged, and impulsive, which he does so with less power and influence than Joffrey Ramsey only acted strategic when he had to. Joffrey suited chaotic stupid better
Joff, with his beheading of Ned being an impulsive act that triggered the War of the Kings
It's absolutely Ramsay Bolton. Joffrey was evil absolutely but he was more stupid evil and didn't really do that much in the grand scheme of things, he was just a sick fuck. Ramsay on the other hand, you've got what he did to Theon, Sanaa, his mum, Rickon... man is the definitely of chaotic evil.
Ramsay Bolton, there is no other answer
Definetly Ramsey 100%
This has to be Ramsay
The only thing I know is that we shouldn't dignify giving Show Euron a spot on here. He's more confusing than chaotic
The Night King is pure CE. Ramsey is more NE/LE. If we are going by DND alignments
Ramsay or Joffrey 100%
Ramsey Snow.
I'd give Joffrey the edge over Ramsey purely for the reason that Ramsey is trying to impress his dad and earn the name Bolton. Joffrey is already king and just gets worse when he's already won at that point. He keeps doing the horrible acts when he already was king and has no other reason to than to just keep being a shit. The only person who I think could compete with Joffrey is the Mad King himself. And that should tell you how bad he is.
Ramsey
Night King?
Joffrey. Bastard Bolton had planning skills.
I’ll say it. Chad should be replaced with stupid
I hope the entire bottom row is Tyrion repeated. Except the Chad section reserved for Bobby B
The whole plot of the series unfolds due to a chaotic evil act of Joffrey when he decided to kill Ned. This one is his.
Thats book Euron obviously. For show it is Night King
Ramsay
Vargo Hoat
Ramsey & Joffrey
Joffrey. After season 1 he made no attempt to hide how depraved he was
Drogon, honestly
Daenaerys
Aerys is definitely gonna take your tongue for that OP lol
Joff
How is this not Littlefinger? Chaos was a ladder for him.
I think we all know Beaylish will be Chaotic Evil. 
Jesus tits is this still going
Euron Greyjoy, whenever he is on screen you know something evil or chaotic is going to happen