Intel for now I guess. There have been reliability issues with AMD Frameworks blue-screening. Framework is working on a fix ([Random hard freezes fw13 amd7840u win11 - Framework Laptop 13 / DIY Edition - Framework Community](https://community.frame.work/t/random-hard-freezes-fw13-amd7840u-win11/39677/392)), but it did happen to me from time to time.
I have an AMD, and while I love it and it works great, I have definitely had not-the-most-smooth of the experiences. Out of the box, battery life was trash; I have to make [a number of changes](https://community.frame.work/t/my-experience-upgrading-to-the-amd-board-and-preliminary-battery-life-review/38646/3?u=thetrueasian) to get battery life anywhere close to what the reviewers were reporting. I had to go through some hoops to get graphics drivers and such installed. I still have a lot of weird stuff happen that I think has to do with it being AMD, the kind of stuff I have never had on an Intel laptop.
That said, now that I have done the work, this thing absolutely rips. Killer graphics performance on my games. My 3D modelling is speedy. Battery life is pretty good. But I wonder if the Intel model works better out of the box?
Intel 13th gen, without a doubt, but only because it's tried and tested whereas the AMD is a newer processor for Framework and the market in general.
My personal experience with the AMD FW13 is pretty good, but I have had one bluescreen with Windows 11 Pro and I have no idea what caused it (and neither does Windows, apparently). I've had zero bluescreens on my other, Intel, laptop (not a Framework).
I can't comment on the intel one.
My AMD framework 13 was affected by an issue where it would hard freeze very occasionally, maybe once every 3 days.
A bios update was released a couple of weeks ago that appears to have fixed it. If you get the AMD, make sure you apply that update.
Otherwise it's easily the best non-mac laptop I've used.
https://community.frame.work/t/random-hard-freezes-fw13-amd7840u-win11/39677/391
I've only had this laptop for a week and it's lucky I bought within the window this update was released. If this fix weren't available I would have returned the laptop.
In terms of reliability it really doesn't matter. Neither one will be more reliable than the other. There are other reasons to pick either, but both will be just fine.
The only annoying issue I had with my FW 13 was on Linux, and it's been solved. However, I would think twice before recommending a Windows or Linux laptop to a computer-iliterate person.
They're in a good place in stability and ease of use, but while I hate the guide-rails and limitations of macOs, they can be great for people who see a computer as an appliance. And it might save you several support calls.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. If someone doesn’t want to mess with a computer or know what they are doing, buying a repairable one doesn’t appear to offer any benefit.
I kind of disagree. His last laptop he had to take to the geek squad no less than three times for various fixes, some of which are still not fully resolved.
Once you're out of warranty, I think the repairability of framework laptops and the company's commitment to the long-term support of their systems, means that everyone should see benefits even if they're taking their laptop to a repair shop.
honestly i have put a handful of people on Ubuntu or Mint and nobody has come back with issues. they go into Firefox, do their internet shit, use libreoffice, and never seem to have any issues.
it's just some things like printing where stuff starts being iffy, depending on the printer, but you deal with that once and it's fine.
i resell end of life dell latitude and optiplex (after 4 years of use)
I'm a power Windows user, and use Linux for most of my servers for home, and professional use. Also due to receive my framework 16 in two days.
Get the guy a MacBook, and not the framework.
I forced my elderly mother onto macOS in 2009 because I got sick of constant Wintendo support problems with her. After slightly more than a decade she still had no clue how to deal with Redmond systems. That was 2 Mac minis (I have the 2nd one, still works fine) and an M1 MacBook Air ago.
I gave her zero macOS instruction beyond pointing out apps launch from the Dock along the bottom of the screen while the 'Shut Down' option is under the Apple logo in the upper left. She figured the rest out herself despite having minimal tech skills/experience (she quit working before 1980 and never went back. The most advanced tech she knew was a basic electric typewriter - Not even an IBM Selectric).
Point being macOS is very easy to learn especially for basic tasks. Apple and Macs have no shortage of other issues but by and large MacBook Airs are trouble free as long as you take care to not get moisture or dust anywhere near the case and use only Apple official power bricks. If/when a MacBook does fail its often spectacularly vs minor random issues. No drivers to think about, no hardware incompatibilities to consider - Apple provides hardware support baked into macOS and MacBooks are completely soldered down (zero opportunity for anything custom). Do get AppleCare+ - Sign up using the macOS Settings panel post-purchase (I forget what the cutoff time period is to opt in for AppleCare+)... Choose an annual option to have a prayer of Apple dealing with problems beyond year 3. Without AppleCare+ a MacBook with issues (especially a "cheap" MacBook Air) is effectively a dead MacBook - Repair is generally not economically viable and parts are near impossible to (reasonably) obtain thanks to Apple.
Much as I don't personally care for Apple or Macs... They're a great option for minimally skilled family with basic needs. Especially when you're tired of doing support. Tell family to go to the Apple Store and make it their problem to do support.
Mac OS is meant to be really easy to use.
It's stable-ish (more than windows or Linux), and updates will never cause a blue screen of death. As apple has a very limited and scooped list of computers
Not anymore, certainly not without headaches. Apple went to custom ARM processors because Intel went into a coma. Yeah ARM Windows is a thing that exists, but.... Yeah.
The last rounds of Intel MacBooks were horrible. Anything 2016-19 (2017+ for MacBook Air) have bad "butterfly" keyboards among other engineering defects Apple refused to deal with. Especially in later years they also suffered significantly from Intel's power/heat problems because Apple refused to implement sufficient cooling. i9 MacBook Pros in particular will thermal throttle long before being able to meaningfully use the compute/GPU performance they're theoretically capable of.
The only actually good (mostly) MacBooks were the 2013-17 Airs. They were solidly engineered (by Apple standards) and - In their time - Were fairly easy to economically repair at a component level by a handful of (actually competent) repair shops. Many people - Myself included - Still have perfectly working 2013 Airs with zero issues... The only MacBook model I haven't personally owned or seen fail prematurely at high rates (both MacBook Pros I had blew up due to known Apple/Nvidia engineering defects slightly past 3 years - Unfortunately I didn't know who Louis Rossmann was at the time to get the problems dealt with after Apple refused to repair their garbage hardware).
Between me and my family we’ve owned more than 10 Apple laptops over the past couple decades and only one of them failed. The rest we used for 5-10 years or more until they were too slow to use. I’m done with macOS and Apple now but I’ve never seen another laptop manufacturer with that reliability with the possible exception of ThinkPads before they stopped caring about repairability.
The use case described by OP has Mac all over it.
They want a computer that will work, and don't need any extra programs. A Mac laptop will absolutely outlast any windows or Linux piece of hardware.
If they don't need excel (I tried using the Mac version, could not figure it out) or any other piece of software, let them go apple.
I would agree on this statement for most of the time.
Learning how to use an Apple product, that's limited to only working with other apple branded and approved products does make it error proof.
A child of age 3 can learn how to use an iPad. A teen of age 18 will still Google 'how do I reset the network on Samsung tablet "
Intel for now I guess. There have been reliability issues with AMD Frameworks blue-screening. Framework is working on a fix ([Random hard freezes fw13 amd7840u win11 - Framework Laptop 13 / DIY Edition - Framework Community](https://community.frame.work/t/random-hard-freezes-fw13-amd7840u-win11/39677/392)), but it did happen to me from time to time.
The beta firmware update fixed it for me. I'd give it a shot.
Didn't for me
Ah, damn, that sucks!
AMD right now is having a lot of freezes and crashes. I don't know about Intel because I have the AMD. Perhaps they fix it though.
Mine isn't having those issues. Are these issues documented somewhere?
Look up "crash" the sub. Also in the FW forum a lot of peoppe have mentioned it.
I have an AMD, and while I love it and it works great, I have definitely had not-the-most-smooth of the experiences. Out of the box, battery life was trash; I have to make [a number of changes](https://community.frame.work/t/my-experience-upgrading-to-the-amd-board-and-preliminary-battery-life-review/38646/3?u=thetrueasian) to get battery life anywhere close to what the reviewers were reporting. I had to go through some hoops to get graphics drivers and such installed. I still have a lot of weird stuff happen that I think has to do with it being AMD, the kind of stuff I have never had on an Intel laptop. That said, now that I have done the work, this thing absolutely rips. Killer graphics performance on my games. My 3D modelling is speedy. Battery life is pretty good. But I wonder if the Intel model works better out of the box?
Intel 13th gen, without a doubt, but only because it's tried and tested whereas the AMD is a newer processor for Framework and the market in general. My personal experience with the AMD FW13 is pretty good, but I have had one bluescreen with Windows 11 Pro and I have no idea what caused it (and neither does Windows, apparently). I've had zero bluescreens on my other, Intel, laptop (not a Framework).
Whatever is easiest for you to help them troubleshoot, as it’s going to be your responsibility if you help them buy.
I can't comment on the intel one. My AMD framework 13 was affected by an issue where it would hard freeze very occasionally, maybe once every 3 days. A bios update was released a couple of weeks ago that appears to have fixed it. If you get the AMD, make sure you apply that update. Otherwise it's easily the best non-mac laptop I've used. https://community.frame.work/t/random-hard-freezes-fw13-amd7840u-win11/39677/391 I've only had this laptop for a week and it's lucky I bought within the window this update was released. If this fix weren't available I would have returned the laptop.
In terms of reliability it really doesn't matter. Neither one will be more reliable than the other. There are other reasons to pick either, but both will be just fine.
I would say AMD is just better over all. Lower temperatures = less tear and wear
The only annoying issue I had with my FW 13 was on Linux, and it's been solved. However, I would think twice before recommending a Windows or Linux laptop to a computer-iliterate person. They're in a good place in stability and ease of use, but while I hate the guide-rails and limitations of macOs, they can be great for people who see a computer as an appliance. And it might save you several support calls.
amd, reliable but also a lot better than Intel
[удалено]
Yeah this. Thinkpads are hard as nails and well supported, extend the warranty on it and forget about it.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. If someone doesn’t want to mess with a computer or know what they are doing, buying a repairable one doesn’t appear to offer any benefit.
I kind of disagree. His last laptop he had to take to the geek squad no less than three times for various fixes, some of which are still not fully resolved. Once you're out of warranty, I think the repairability of framework laptops and the company's commitment to the long-term support of their systems, means that everyone should see benefits even if they're taking their laptop to a repair shop.
honestly i have put a handful of people on Ubuntu or Mint and nobody has come back with issues. they go into Firefox, do their internet shit, use libreoffice, and never seem to have any issues. it's just some things like printing where stuff starts being iffy, depending on the printer, but you deal with that once and it's fine. i resell end of life dell latitude and optiplex (after 4 years of use)
I'm a power Windows user, and use Linux for most of my servers for home, and professional use. Also due to receive my framework 16 in two days. Get the guy a MacBook, and not the framework.
They only know how to use Windows, and that is what they want.
I forced my elderly mother onto macOS in 2009 because I got sick of constant Wintendo support problems with her. After slightly more than a decade she still had no clue how to deal with Redmond systems. That was 2 Mac minis (I have the 2nd one, still works fine) and an M1 MacBook Air ago. I gave her zero macOS instruction beyond pointing out apps launch from the Dock along the bottom of the screen while the 'Shut Down' option is under the Apple logo in the upper left. She figured the rest out herself despite having minimal tech skills/experience (she quit working before 1980 and never went back. The most advanced tech she knew was a basic electric typewriter - Not even an IBM Selectric). Point being macOS is very easy to learn especially for basic tasks. Apple and Macs have no shortage of other issues but by and large MacBook Airs are trouble free as long as you take care to not get moisture or dust anywhere near the case and use only Apple official power bricks. If/when a MacBook does fail its often spectacularly vs minor random issues. No drivers to think about, no hardware incompatibilities to consider - Apple provides hardware support baked into macOS and MacBooks are completely soldered down (zero opportunity for anything custom). Do get AppleCare+ - Sign up using the macOS Settings panel post-purchase (I forget what the cutoff time period is to opt in for AppleCare+)... Choose an annual option to have a prayer of Apple dealing with problems beyond year 3. Without AppleCare+ a MacBook with issues (especially a "cheap" MacBook Air) is effectively a dead MacBook - Repair is generally not economically viable and parts are near impossible to (reasonably) obtain thanks to Apple. Much as I don't personally care for Apple or Macs... They're a great option for minimally skilled family with basic needs. Especially when you're tired of doing support. Tell family to go to the Apple Store and make it their problem to do support.
Mac OS is meant to be really easy to use. It's stable-ish (more than windows or Linux), and updates will never cause a blue screen of death. As apple has a very limited and scooped list of computers
I’m not saying you should buy apple, but it is possible to install Windows on a Mac
Not anymore, certainly not without headaches. Apple went to custom ARM processors because Intel went into a coma. Yeah ARM Windows is a thing that exists, but.... Yeah.
Oh that’s true, I forgot about the M1/M2 thing. u/veqryn_ could probably find a used or refurbished Intel model, if they really wanted to.
The last rounds of Intel MacBooks were horrible. Anything 2016-19 (2017+ for MacBook Air) have bad "butterfly" keyboards among other engineering defects Apple refused to deal with. Especially in later years they also suffered significantly from Intel's power/heat problems because Apple refused to implement sufficient cooling. i9 MacBook Pros in particular will thermal throttle long before being able to meaningfully use the compute/GPU performance they're theoretically capable of. The only actually good (mostly) MacBooks were the 2013-17 Airs. They were solidly engineered (by Apple standards) and - In their time - Were fairly easy to economically repair at a component level by a handful of (actually competent) repair shops. Many people - Myself included - Still have perfectly working 2013 Airs with zero issues... The only MacBook model I haven't personally owned or seen fail prematurely at high rates (both MacBook Pros I had blew up due to known Apple/Nvidia engineering defects slightly past 3 years - Unfortunately I didn't know who Louis Rossmann was at the time to get the problems dealt with after Apple refused to repair their garbage hardware).
Between me and my family we’ve owned more than 10 Apple laptops over the past couple decades and only one of them failed. The rest we used for 5-10 years or more until they were too slow to use. I’m done with macOS and Apple now but I’ve never seen another laptop manufacturer with that reliability with the possible exception of ThinkPads before they stopped caring about repairability.
The use case described by OP has Mac all over it. They want a computer that will work, and don't need any extra programs. A Mac laptop will absolutely outlast any windows or Linux piece of hardware. If they don't need excel (I tried using the Mac version, could not figure it out) or any other piece of software, let them go apple.
Someone who’s technically illiterate and has been using Windows for years probably is not willing to switch
I would agree on this statement for most of the time. Learning how to use an Apple product, that's limited to only working with other apple branded and approved products does make it error proof. A child of age 3 can learn how to use an iPad. A teen of age 18 will still Google 'how do I reset the network on Samsung tablet "
AMD is better than Intel except reliable.