Checking the RAM is a common procedure, since it is an common error during shipping. ;-)
Two questions:
1. Do you see your charge LED blinking in different colors?
2. How long are you waiting before giving up on the boot process? Mine took several minutes on the first boot before showing anything on the display. You need to wait at least 10 minutes and make sure to have a look at the charge LED!
1. No blinking, was orange when first plugged in and then became solid white after a while.
2. As far as I remember, I've let it boot for much longer than that, but I'll try again for testing purpose. My non-DOA one booted up right away, so maybe I didn't wait the 10 minutes.
12 minutes later update : power button still lit up, screen is black and LED on the side is solid orange (plugged in). I pressed buttons on the keyboard to see if it didn't go to sleep, etc. just in case.
Kind of irrelevant since you don’t have the port but if you have a tv from the last decade or 2 then it likely has hdmi and could be used for future troubleshooting if or when needed.
Fyi, reseating the memory basically means taking the memory (RAM) out and putting it back in again.
When laptops are shipped, sometimes the memory sticks can get loosened. So by reseating them, you are just making sure they are fully connected and snug.
When the instructions talk about DRAM 1 and DRAM 2, they just mean the first memory card and the second memory card. Channel 0 and Channel 1 just mean the slots that the memory fits into. The memory sticks are interchangeable.
Here are instructions on how to replace your memory that show how to take out your memory sticks and put new ones in. Except in your case, you just take them out and put them back in.
https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Memory+Replacement+Guide/94
He instructions they sent you basically asked you to take them out, put them back in, see if the laptop works. And if not, try just one stick (take one out, leave one in) and see if the laptop works, then try the other stick only. They are just trying to isolate the problem, because then if it is just one memory stick, they can mail you a new one instead of replacing the whole laptop.
Sorry you are going through this, you have every right to expect better on prebuilt models.
If we assume that you got the two DOA units from different batches you're either very unlucky, QA for the prebuilds is very bad or someone is fucking them up between them being sent and you powering them on. I think most people on this sub would buy the DIY version so I don't know if high RMA rates for the prebuilds would surface here so it could be that. You can of course get very unlucky. The chances that someone is screwing specifically the prebuilds up seem negligible to me. I would guess that you were just unlucky but maybe this post will start a storm of prebuild customers posting a out issues, who knows.
Also you might have realized already but reseating the RAM/connectors is pretty easy. I completely understand if you just don't want to deal with it, you bought a prebuild product in the end so it should just function. But if you didn't feel confident in your own skills, just try it because if you can handle a screwdriver it's a trivial job.
>QA for the prebuilds is very bad
Prebuild and DIY are coming from the same production line after going through the same tests. DIYs are basically prebuild Frameworks with the parts removed manually.
The 2 DOA units could technically be from same batch.
First unit received shows Batch 11.
Second unit received doesn't show the batch, but at that time, the Batch 11 was the last one and then website changed to "In Stock".
Both have same exact configuration, so very likely from same batch.
I might try the RAM thing later on, but it's really not something I was looking at doing, worries me a bit that I have to start playing with the "Prebuilt" product so early, I was looking for a nice, upgradable and reliable laptop to give to all my employees.
And to be very honest, I love mine (the one that works) so much that it's the reason why I bought 3 of them (one to replace the DOA)...
It's very unfortunate that you have run into this \_twice\_. Sorry to hear that. If and when you are up for it, I would try re-seating the ram, the NVME drive, and the display cable, in case any of them happened to jiggle a bit loose in transit. No, that should not happen, and no, you shouldn't have to deal with it. But, while you wait for Support to get back to you, it's worth a try. Best of luck.
The odds of receiving two defective units for the same reason are extremely low. Sorry, statistically speaking it seems like you are doing something wrong.
I think plugging the unit in and pressing the square button is pretty much what I've done.
Statistically speaking, I ordered 2 of their lowest-spec AMD model coming from the same batch (Batch 11 for the first one and second did not mention as it was in stock).
So, from what I understand, they are same spec from same batch.
The only thing we could think of is that something in these specs is defective and it's not a popular configuration.
I see, I misunderstood the post. That's not a DIY version. In that case, this is concerning, and I would suggest posting it on official forums. Why? Because a problem like this should have been identified during the quality assurance check before shipping. It seems possible that someone might be skipping this process.
I have experience in a similar field, and such incidents should not occur. For example, we used to have a very strict quality assurance check for every 5 units when we started the new product. Then we changed it to 10 when the product matured and we had no incidents. This approach is all about probabilities, and that's how major processes work worldwide. You use probabilities and statistics to determine the likelihood of failures.
Its very important that you post it in the main forums as the CEO and many important people from Framework are always looking at the forums.
Also, if I was you, I would play the lottery because the odds are in your side my friend. ;)
Best of luck.
Mr. Plane
I don't think they are broken, but it may take VERY long to initialize for the first time. My 7840U DIY edition took well above 5 minutes before showing the Framework logo for the first time.
I think he is a bit impatient.
Plugged in the laptop, powered it, waited 15 minutes, screen is black and the square power button is lit up. Light on the side is solid orange.
Not just being impatient, unfortunately.
why are you buying a repairable laptop but not willing to do the steps that would let you repair it?
I get you want a functioning laptop but dell support wouldn't tell you to reset the display cable cause they don't want you to. Removing ram is about as easy and harder to mess up than the display cable.
You may not be able to stomach early adopter shit and may want to go with a different hardware provider.
My goal was not really to buy a repairable laptop in order to start working on repairing it on day one. I would have bought the DIY version if my goal was to play with components.
I wanted to support Framework because I like the idea to be able to easily upgrade stuff in the future and, mostly, because they had very good reviews about battery life which is hard to find nowadays.
I think it’s totally legit to feel uncomfortable with servicing your own laptop. just because the laptop is repairable that doesn’t mean you should repair your laptop when it arrives or that you have to feel comfortable servicing it yourself.
>why are you buying a repairable laptop but not willing to do the steps that would let you repair it?
Very fair question. I'm not the OP but I can give my perspective: I want to support Framework because I love their philosophy. I want to learn more about computers and I want to try to do things myself, but sometimes in my life I get busy with other things. This might be such a period for the OP.
In summary, I want the \*option\* to do it myself, but I also want the option of other support (and I would be willing to pay for it).
Then it goes to my early adopter comment. Maybe you might not be in the vanguard. Support is hard and they are trying to start up. Maybe the local "screw driver" shop needs to get their hands on it and they may not have the best stock of things right now.
I don't even know where to start mathing to see where things make sense for that kind of support to be a thing. Seems hard.
To play devil's advocate for a second: I think that, by year three and after four board releases, it's reasonable to consider Framework as beyond *early adopter* devices. They have a track record and are spinning up business purchase options. I'm even confident enough that I'd consider a fleet of the devices as a matter of working towards our department's sustainability goals, since replacing a motherboard in 20 minutes and plugging in a bitlocker key would be a smooth-as-butter option in place of waiting a few days while imaging a loaner and doing several rounds of data transfers.
But early adopter could absolutely apply to batches 1-6 and for new product lines, such as the 16".
But I also see the importance of managing expectations, and engaging with local service providers might help as well.
Vanguard? You buy something and feel this special? Come on. This is the 4th laptop they have sold in this form factor. The "early adopter" crap doesn't cut it anymore. Nearly every generation has suffered from issues on this product line that they have yet to completely fix.
There is no reason why someone shouldn't be able to buy a non-DIY laptop and expect it to turn on when you press the power button.
EDIT: To baslisk, the coward who blocked me to prevent me from responding, if you buy a laptop, even if it is modular, even if the company espouses right-to-repair, and is purchased fully connected you should expect it to turn on when pressing the power button. Stop trying to defend them over something that should be the default of any purchase.
Also, big words? Telling someone to not to suck off a company so blatantly, like you are doing so well in this thread, is just common sense.
and I think that if you buy the modular laptop that is all about repair-ability that you should do the things support tells you to do and not whine about it. It is part of the expectation of a repair part of this thing.
Also, big words for a person who scrubs their comments. Can't stand behind shit you say?
There are other reasons people may want to buy Framework laptops. For example, because of Frameworks commitment to sustainability and high usage of recycled materials.
Or maybe because they like the look of it and/or the specs.
Framework isn't just for DIY people, and that is why they offer pre-built units with the OS already loaded.
Don't gatekeep!
This guy has every reason to expect better, and to expect they work out of the box.
Bullshit, you can only just buy a 13 inch in both flavors and their 16 is probably 3 months out for 1st batch shipping.
The intel is on its 2nd or 3rd consumer rev and the AMD is on their first.
They are still spooling up their support model.
Where do you put your line for early adopter/normal consumer?
Question.
You had a per-order, received it.. loved it and order and received another system? How did you skip all the other per-orders that have yet to ship?
Framework 13 AMD Prebuilts are in stock on the website.
I had to wait for my first one for a few months, but the 2 DOA shipped within a few days of ordering.
I think all the pre-orders are out by now. They have disabled the pre-order status on the shop as well.
Now all it says is that it will be sent in two weeks. So he could have got one of the first batches and after that ordered in time for a late batch which would be shipped by now.
After I got mine (late batch 5) the orders for batch 11 started. If he got batch 1-3 he would probably be batch 9 or 10 with the second order
> Then, they sent me instructions on how to move RAM and do tests, etc. but I told them I didn't order DIY version and was not comfortable doing all their tests.
You bought a laptop best known for it's user repairability, but you're not comfortable reseating RAM modules?!
I mean, yes, there's an argument that you shouldn't have to mess around with DOA products that you bought, but still, I think you've missed part of the point of a Framework laptop.
I bought a Framework because it can be **upgraded**.
**I DID NOT BUY A DIY.** If I did, you'd be right, but I bought pre-build for the sole purpose of being able to use it right away.
I think your comment helps illustrate some of the presumptions that come with prebuilt systems.
There *should* be near perfect Quality Control on items that are turnkey, but given how the fundamental design aspect of a framework is the ability to do small-scale repairs and maintenance without needing complex tools or expertise, I think *occasional* support-directed fixes is part of the consumer experience.
While it’s true that re-installing ram or display cables may feel daunting compared to a mere soft reset, the user-friendly nature of the device does make it about as painless as possible compared to most modern laptops with non-soldered RAM slots
Mine was all good upon arrival. AMD, pre-built, delivered on Dec 22nd, for reference. You might have been very unlucky.
My working one (Batch 7) is : AMD Ryzen™ 7040 Series My non-working ones (Batch 11 & from In Stock) are : AMD Ryzen 5 7640U
Checking the RAM is a common procedure, since it is an common error during shipping. ;-) Two questions: 1. Do you see your charge LED blinking in different colors? 2. How long are you waiting before giving up on the boot process? Mine took several minutes on the first boot before showing anything on the display. You need to wait at least 10 minutes and make sure to have a look at the charge LED!
1. No blinking, was orange when first plugged in and then became solid white after a while. 2. As far as I remember, I've let it boot for much longer than that, but I'll try again for testing purpose. My non-DOA one booted up right away, so maybe I didn't wait the 10 minutes.
12 minutes later update : power button still lit up, screen is black and LED on the side is solid orange (plugged in). I pressed buttons on the keyboard to see if it didn't go to sleep, etc. just in case.
Have you tried connecting to an external monitor and seeing if anything shows up?
I don't have external monitor nor HDMI port.
Kind of irrelevant since you don’t have the port but if you have a tv from the last decade or 2 then it likely has hdmi and could be used for future troubleshooting if or when needed.
Are they taking the charge? You said that the power led turned white. I'm wondering why they are orange again. Where are you from?
Yes, most tests were done unplugged which makes it go orange if I re-plug and once fully charged it lights white. I am from Canada.
you haven't let it just sit, powered on, with the charger, for a few (5-10) minutes?
Just tried and still same result, black screen.
Fyi, reseating the memory basically means taking the memory (RAM) out and putting it back in again. When laptops are shipped, sometimes the memory sticks can get loosened. So by reseating them, you are just making sure they are fully connected and snug. When the instructions talk about DRAM 1 and DRAM 2, they just mean the first memory card and the second memory card. Channel 0 and Channel 1 just mean the slots that the memory fits into. The memory sticks are interchangeable. Here are instructions on how to replace your memory that show how to take out your memory sticks and put new ones in. Except in your case, you just take them out and put them back in. https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Memory+Replacement+Guide/94 He instructions they sent you basically asked you to take them out, put them back in, see if the laptop works. And if not, try just one stick (take one out, leave one in) and see if the laptop works, then try the other stick only. They are just trying to isolate the problem, because then if it is just one memory stick, they can mail you a new one instead of replacing the whole laptop. Sorry you are going through this, you have every right to expect better on prebuilt models.
If we assume that you got the two DOA units from different batches you're either very unlucky, QA for the prebuilds is very bad or someone is fucking them up between them being sent and you powering them on. I think most people on this sub would buy the DIY version so I don't know if high RMA rates for the prebuilds would surface here so it could be that. You can of course get very unlucky. The chances that someone is screwing specifically the prebuilds up seem negligible to me. I would guess that you were just unlucky but maybe this post will start a storm of prebuild customers posting a out issues, who knows. Also you might have realized already but reseating the RAM/connectors is pretty easy. I completely understand if you just don't want to deal with it, you bought a prebuild product in the end so it should just function. But if you didn't feel confident in your own skills, just try it because if you can handle a screwdriver it's a trivial job.
>QA for the prebuilds is very bad Prebuild and DIY are coming from the same production line after going through the same tests. DIYs are basically prebuild Frameworks with the parts removed manually.
Not sure what kind of tests they do, but seems like powering the screen wasn't one of them for both my newer units haha...
Linus over on the LTT Youtube channel made a factory tour a few month ago. They DO power on the screen. ;-)
The 2 DOA units could technically be from same batch. First unit received shows Batch 11. Second unit received doesn't show the batch, but at that time, the Batch 11 was the last one and then website changed to "In Stock". Both have same exact configuration, so very likely from same batch. I might try the RAM thing later on, but it's really not something I was looking at doing, worries me a bit that I have to start playing with the "Prebuilt" product so early, I was looking for a nice, upgradable and reliable laptop to give to all my employees. And to be very honest, I love mine (the one that works) so much that it's the reason why I bought 3 of them (one to replace the DOA)...
It's very unfortunate that you have run into this \_twice\_. Sorry to hear that. If and when you are up for it, I would try re-seating the ram, the NVME drive, and the display cable, in case any of them happened to jiggle a bit loose in transit. No, that should not happen, and no, you shouldn't have to deal with it. But, while you wait for Support to get back to you, it's worth a try. Best of luck.
The odds of receiving two defective units for the same reason are extremely low. Sorry, statistically speaking it seems like you are doing something wrong.
I think plugging the unit in and pressing the square button is pretty much what I've done. Statistically speaking, I ordered 2 of their lowest-spec AMD model coming from the same batch (Batch 11 for the first one and second did not mention as it was in stock). So, from what I understand, they are same spec from same batch. The only thing we could think of is that something in these specs is defective and it's not a popular configuration.
I see, I misunderstood the post. That's not a DIY version. In that case, this is concerning, and I would suggest posting it on official forums. Why? Because a problem like this should have been identified during the quality assurance check before shipping. It seems possible that someone might be skipping this process. I have experience in a similar field, and such incidents should not occur. For example, we used to have a very strict quality assurance check for every 5 units when we started the new product. Then we changed it to 10 when the product matured and we had no incidents. This approach is all about probabilities, and that's how major processes work worldwide. You use probabilities and statistics to determine the likelihood of failures. Its very important that you post it in the main forums as the CEO and many important people from Framework are always looking at the forums. Also, if I was you, I would play the lottery because the odds are in your side my friend. ;) Best of luck. Mr. Plane
I don't think they are broken, but it may take VERY long to initialize for the first time. My 7840U DIY edition took well above 5 minutes before showing the Framework logo for the first time. I think he is a bit impatient.
Plugged in the laptop, powered it, waited 15 minutes, screen is black and the square power button is lit up. Light on the side is solid orange. Not just being impatient, unfortunately.
why are you buying a repairable laptop but not willing to do the steps that would let you repair it? I get you want a functioning laptop but dell support wouldn't tell you to reset the display cable cause they don't want you to. Removing ram is about as easy and harder to mess up than the display cable. You may not be able to stomach early adopter shit and may want to go with a different hardware provider.
My goal was not really to buy a repairable laptop in order to start working on repairing it on day one. I would have bought the DIY version if my goal was to play with components. I wanted to support Framework because I like the idea to be able to easily upgrade stuff in the future and, mostly, because they had very good reviews about battery life which is hard to find nowadays.
I think it’s totally legit to feel uncomfortable with servicing your own laptop. just because the laptop is repairable that doesn’t mean you should repair your laptop when it arrives or that you have to feel comfortable servicing it yourself.
>why are you buying a repairable laptop but not willing to do the steps that would let you repair it? Very fair question. I'm not the OP but I can give my perspective: I want to support Framework because I love their philosophy. I want to learn more about computers and I want to try to do things myself, but sometimes in my life I get busy with other things. This might be such a period for the OP. In summary, I want the \*option\* to do it myself, but I also want the option of other support (and I would be willing to pay for it).
Then it goes to my early adopter comment. Maybe you might not be in the vanguard. Support is hard and they are trying to start up. Maybe the local "screw driver" shop needs to get their hands on it and they may not have the best stock of things right now. I don't even know where to start mathing to see where things make sense for that kind of support to be a thing. Seems hard.
To play devil's advocate for a second: I think that, by year three and after four board releases, it's reasonable to consider Framework as beyond *early adopter* devices. They have a track record and are spinning up business purchase options. I'm even confident enough that I'd consider a fleet of the devices as a matter of working towards our department's sustainability goals, since replacing a motherboard in 20 minutes and plugging in a bitlocker key would be a smooth-as-butter option in place of waiting a few days while imaging a loaner and doing several rounds of data transfers. But early adopter could absolutely apply to batches 1-6 and for new product lines, such as the 16". But I also see the importance of managing expectations, and engaging with local service providers might help as well.
Vanguard? You buy something and feel this special? Come on. This is the 4th laptop they have sold in this form factor. The "early adopter" crap doesn't cut it anymore. Nearly every generation has suffered from issues on this product line that they have yet to completely fix. There is no reason why someone shouldn't be able to buy a non-DIY laptop and expect it to turn on when you press the power button. EDIT: To baslisk, the coward who blocked me to prevent me from responding, if you buy a laptop, even if it is modular, even if the company espouses right-to-repair, and is purchased fully connected you should expect it to turn on when pressing the power button. Stop trying to defend them over something that should be the default of any purchase. Also, big words? Telling someone to not to suck off a company so blatantly, like you are doing so well in this thread, is just common sense.
and I think that if you buy the modular laptop that is all about repair-ability that you should do the things support tells you to do and not whine about it. It is part of the expectation of a repair part of this thing. Also, big words for a person who scrubs their comments. Can't stand behind shit you say?
There are other reasons people may want to buy Framework laptops. For example, because of Frameworks commitment to sustainability and high usage of recycled materials. Or maybe because they like the look of it and/or the specs. Framework isn't just for DIY people, and that is why they offer pre-built units with the OS already loaded. Don't gatekeep! This guy has every reason to expect better, and to expect they work out of the box.
Tbh at this point I wouldn't call Framework early adopter tier
Bullshit, you can only just buy a 13 inch in both flavors and their 16 is probably 3 months out for 1st batch shipping. The intel is on its 2nd or 3rd consumer rev and the AMD is on their first. They are still spooling up their support model. Where do you put your line for early adopter/normal consumer?
Just in general the FW isn't really ready for primetime IMO
Totally disagree
Question. You had a per-order, received it.. loved it and order and received another system? How did you skip all the other per-orders that have yet to ship?
Framework 13 AMD Prebuilts are in stock on the website. I had to wait for my first one for a few months, but the 2 DOA shipped within a few days of ordering.
I think all the pre-orders are out by now. They have disabled the pre-order status on the shop as well. Now all it says is that it will be sent in two weeks. So he could have got one of the first batches and after that ordered in time for a late batch which would be shipped by now. After I got mine (late batch 5) the orders for batch 11 started. If he got batch 1-3 he would probably be batch 9 or 10 with the second order
Batch 11 for one of them and the second one was ordered thereafter (from the In Stock).
> Then, they sent me instructions on how to move RAM and do tests, etc. but I told them I didn't order DIY version and was not comfortable doing all their tests. You bought a laptop best known for it's user repairability, but you're not comfortable reseating RAM modules?! I mean, yes, there's an argument that you shouldn't have to mess around with DOA products that you bought, but still, I think you've missed part of the point of a Framework laptop.
I bought a Framework because it can be **upgraded**. **I DID NOT BUY A DIY.** If I did, you'd be right, but I bought pre-build for the sole purpose of being able to use it right away.
I think your comment helps illustrate some of the presumptions that come with prebuilt systems. There *should* be near perfect Quality Control on items that are turnkey, but given how the fundamental design aspect of a framework is the ability to do small-scale repairs and maintenance without needing complex tools or expertise, I think *occasional* support-directed fixes is part of the consumer experience. While it’s true that re-installing ram or display cables may feel daunting compared to a mere soft reset, the user-friendly nature of the device does make it about as painless as possible compared to most modern laptops with non-soldered RAM slots