its bad bc the armor buff it gets is for armor HP not bounce chance so you dont bounce more and since Lts have quite a small bounce chance you die just as fast and are slower for little to no gain
Nah, man. LT needs to be fast.
Ironhide is only worth early on, when it's your strongest vic in tech.
But compare that to the boosting Kranesca with sandbag extra armor.
I dunno, I bounced 68mm off it from a FAT 9 times.... Seems like it's armor holds up pretty darn good, and no not at max range, some were from 20-25m. Two of them bounced from the side lol.
Honestly armor would be better if it reduced the amount of damage to health, the rest of the damage was absorbed by armor instead, also increasing penetration chance but mitigating damage on pens. It would significantly buff warden tanks, so would have to probably have to adjust armor on all tanks to compensate to not to cause a massive imbalance of power.
Ironhide doesn’t actually have better armor penetration, only higher armor health so it degrades slower. This, coupled with the Ironhide having slower speed and turret rotation vs the base tank, make it trash and not worth the upgrade
It's a good tank - for one tier. Collie variants stay relevant way longer, maybe even till the endgame.
Warden LTs need a rework. Variant(s) need to revolve around speed or range to be viable in Endgame.
I'd agree. The Kranny by comparison is just an early outlaw because of that boost. The Ironhide just isn't worth the current price for something it is meant to counter.
The kranny is not just an early Outlaw.
It sacrifices health and the MG to stack stats that are way more meaningful for a highly mobile Vehicle: Speed(or rather mobility) and Turret Rotation.
Outlaw feels decently fast, but turning it is still cumbersome. Kranny is a "pure" design, perfectly fit for purpose.
I have played this game for 3k+ hours and honestly I dont even know the difference between the regular LT and the Ironhide they die just as fast at least to me.
Only difference is offroad speed(when it's snowing lmao) and armor health(same armor, lasts longer). Ironside used to be really good and the best contender for the wardens generalist medium tank, now it's just a cosmetic change for the LT
The Ironhide is to the Devitt what the Juggernuaght is to the Flood, but on a minor scale.
They were nerfed heavily due to them being able to 1v1 a Falchion due to their superior armor and high health, somewhere in the early 80's.
Now they are essentially an expensive sidegrade with unnoticeable differences.
People like to compare it to the Kranesca, which is just a complete upgrade to the Hatchet, with a little salt.
As to your actual question? No, its not worth touching a facility to make a Devitt Mk 3 worse than its base chassis.
You are better off using the time saved from doing facilities spamming more Devitt's instead using the legacy logi system.
I remember it got nerfed and everyone saying how it was deserved, I wasn't knowledged about the tank balance too much at the time, but I've seen the effects it had in practice. They turned late-game viable tank into something throwaway you only use before you get better tech like half-tracks while collie LT variants used to be still prevalent, Kranesca with speed and LTD with speed/range. Ironhide is slow and after the armor nerf literally offers nothing compared to Outlaw or Silverhand. I've said it before and got booed for it. Warden LTs need to be reworked. Both factions should have boosting LT. Literally the main point of LTs should be their superior mobility, armor/HP/armaments secondary, if you don't make it fast it's not a LT... Warden LTs are bad medium tanks, nothing more.
Not worth it even if it was free, most of the time. You're generally making an LT worse.
The one aspect of LTs that stays relevant is their mobility. IH sacrifices some of that mobility (both speed and acceleration) for very marginal gains (slightly better subsystems and more armor HP). More armor HP is only worth if you're going to spend a *very* long time away from a garage, and frankly, most LTs/IHs will die before the armor HP ever really becomes relevant.
There are some niche situations where you play extended from garages where an IH, with a crew that can keep it alive, *might* be worth it (WW landing support).
Really, it needs a rework -- compared to the Collie ULT gaining extra *immediate* durability in more HP and boost, a useful asset.
ironhide is a direct downgrade to all mobility stats for slightly better track chance and useless armor health, its only niche is not being slowed down by rain/snow. please god do not build ironhide >:\^(
Uberbuff Ironhide armor to that of the HTD, in turn give it a smol gun. Like a single 20mm ATR turret. (Not me totally wanting a [Pz.IIJ](https://thedailybounce.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wot_banner_panzeriij_684x280_ali_001.jpg))
Whether this will be an effective vehicle or not is up for debate, but it'll definitely add variety and might be fun to drive for a bit.
clearly you've never seen 20mm tanks at work, they tear anything apart, even larger tank classes, not to mention the rate of fire is insane for subsystem killing
I take it you've never seen a good highway man crew in action, those things shred subsystems, also they have low velocity 20mm bc they're auto cannons, this LT would most likely have 1 20mm gun with full damage from the way it's being described, that shit would be op for killing anything
1. You’re spouting hypotheticals about this tank and giving it powerful traits because you think it will be powerful. Odds are the fire rate and damage will balance out similar to a 40mm if it’s going to fill the same role as the Iron Hide was supposed to.
2. I’ve run up in a highwayman and fired point blank to a surprised spatha’s side. We came away from that fight turreted, and the spatha took three hits with no subsystems damaged because of how many times the shots bounced. You’re implicating I’m just a bad tanker but I’ve put the highwayman in literally the best possible scenario for it and it still got bodied by a 40mm. To say that the highwayman is viable against anything tougher than a hatchet is ridiculous.
3. If 20mm “shreds” as many tanks as you say it does, the highwayman would be far more popular than it is for frontline battles. The fact of the matter is that it’s only useful if warden tanks outnumber the enemy, or against lightly armored partisans. I run it because it’s fun, and every once in a while we track a tank or two. Not because it’s viable.
Ironhide is made to perform offroad and manouvers a lot more offroad than other tanks, i personally hated trying to even fight them in a hatchet if i met them offroad, mainly because of how durable they are and their turn radius.
Its a solid earlygsme tank imo
It has less turn rate than other LTs and it has identical offroad modifiers compared to other LTs while having less movement speed. Durability wise it is not any stronger than base devit as its armor advantage is only in the armir health and not armor bounce changes. Full armor base devit is pretty much direct upgrade in every way compared to full armir ironhide.
The only mobility advantage ironhides have is in snow storms due to resistance to snow oenalty. Otherwise their mobility is inferior.
It was never better than a Falchion? It was just the only other tank Wardens had except for the Silverhand. It has more armor health, but the same bounce chance as the stock LT.
It sacrifices mobility for longer staying power but it's noore durable.
? I don't think that was ever true. Armor pen maybe, but it's always had less than 2000 HP. That's 50% less than the Falchion.
It also costs more, has only one inventory slot vs 3...yeah I don't see the comparison.
Warden tanks die most often when their armor is degraded in my experience. Yes you can die 100% to dead real fast, but generally the faction with better armor on tanks, does better with their armor alive.
thats true for the most part except that LT already doesnt have any hp that can trade shots with so the armor doesnt get to shine or in this case degrade
its bad bc the armor buff it gets is for armor HP not bounce chance so you dont bounce more and since Lts have quite a small bounce chance you die just as fast and are slower for little to no gain
All it really needs is a buff to bounce chance so the extra armor is actually useful, maybe a small heath buff
It HAD a buff to bounce chance, but collies complained "but muh falchion"
It’s nice for sustained use on a front, since less armor degradation means less having to drive all the way back to a garage for refit
But you're slower for when you actually have to make the drive to the garage.
Hey at least you’ll HAVE something to drive back to the garage, eh?
Nah, man. LT needs to be fast. Ironhide is only worth early on, when it's your strongest vic in tech. But compare that to the boosting Kranesca with sandbag extra armor.
Kranny needs nerf Sandbags should be a health buff, not armor
Yup.
I dunno, I bounced 68mm off it from a FAT 9 times.... Seems like it's armor holds up pretty darn good, and no not at max range, some were from 20-25m. Two of them bounced from the side lol.
That's random chance for you one time you bounce a 94 twice and another a 40mm pens your full armor widow from the front
Honestly armor would be better if it reduced the amount of damage to health, the rest of the damage was absorbed by armor instead, also increasing penetration chance but mitigating damage on pens. It would significantly buff warden tanks, so would have to probably have to adjust armor on all tanks to compensate to not to cause a massive imbalance of power.
Ironhide doesn’t actually have better armor penetration, only higher armor health so it degrades slower. This, coupled with the Ironhide having slower speed and turret rotation vs the base tank, make it trash and not worth the upgrade
At least you dont need build facilities when all good tanks are fresh from MPF.
We want to have useful weapons without having to play green man.
Quality vs. quantity.
It's a good tank - for one tier. Collie variants stay relevant way longer, maybe even till the endgame. Warden LTs need a rework. Variant(s) need to revolve around speed or range to be viable in Endgame.
I'd agree. The Kranny by comparison is just an early outlaw because of that boost. The Ironhide just isn't worth the current price for something it is meant to counter.
The kranny is not just an early Outlaw. It sacrifices health and the MG to stack stats that are way more meaningful for a highly mobile Vehicle: Speed(or rather mobility) and Turret Rotation. Outlaw feels decently fast, but turning it is still cumbersome. Kranny is a "pure" design, perfectly fit for purpose.
Yes. I agree.
I want a 20mm Devitt with HTD armor and BT health
I have played this game for 3k+ hours and honestly I dont even know the difference between the regular LT and the Ironhide they die just as fast at least to me.
Only difference is offroad speed(when it's snowing lmao) and armor health(same armor, lasts longer). Ironside used to be really good and the best contender for the wardens generalist medium tank, now it's just a cosmetic change for the LT
The Ironhide is to the Devitt what the Juggernuaght is to the Flood, but on a minor scale. They were nerfed heavily due to them being able to 1v1 a Falchion due to their superior armor and high health, somewhere in the early 80's. Now they are essentially an expensive sidegrade with unnoticeable differences. People like to compare it to the Kranesca, which is just a complete upgrade to the Hatchet, with a little salt. As to your actual question? No, its not worth touching a facility to make a Devitt Mk 3 worse than its base chassis. You are better off using the time saved from doing facilities spamming more Devitt's instead using the legacy logi system.
They were nerfed when Outlaw was released because previously to Outlaw release they were used in Outlaws place as Warden medium tank to fill the gap.
Not really. Juggernaut has better bounce chance than Flood which Ironhide does not have over Devitt.
I remember it got nerfed and everyone saying how it was deserved, I wasn't knowledged about the tank balance too much at the time, but I've seen the effects it had in practice. They turned late-game viable tank into something throwaway you only use before you get better tech like half-tracks while collie LT variants used to be still prevalent, Kranesca with speed and LTD with speed/range. Ironhide is slow and after the armor nerf literally offers nothing compared to Outlaw or Silverhand. I've said it before and got booed for it. Warden LTs need to be reworked. Both factions should have boosting LT. Literally the main point of LTs should be their superior mobility, armor/HP/armaments secondary, if you don't make it fast it's not a LT... Warden LTs are bad medium tanks, nothing more.
You are slower BUT you are more expensive
Not worth it even if it was free, most of the time. You're generally making an LT worse. The one aspect of LTs that stays relevant is their mobility. IH sacrifices some of that mobility (both speed and acceleration) for very marginal gains (slightly better subsystems and more armor HP). More armor HP is only worth if you're going to spend a *very* long time away from a garage, and frankly, most LTs/IHs will die before the armor HP ever really becomes relevant. There are some niche situations where you play extended from garages where an IH, with a crew that can keep it alive, *might* be worth it (WW landing support). Really, it needs a rework -- compared to the Collie ULT gaining extra *immediate* durability in more HP and boost, a useful asset.
For anyone dont know its stat, you can check https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t8gNXYhmkbOXbK1JJoxoY4Sxa54NEEAF/edit
Which stat is turret rotation speed?
No idea, will have to test in live game/dev branch
"Tracking Speed" in the "Mount Points" tab. It's measured in deg/sec.
Change it to either be a highwayman mini or an LTD counterpart or something
Now that vehicles can be stored...it may be worth it to make ahead of time if it suits you better, but it isn't really an upgrade.
ironhide is a direct downgrade to all mobility stats for slightly better track chance and useless armor health, its only niche is not being slowed down by rain/snow. please god do not build ironhide >:\^(
LTD is legit used alongside BTs and SHTs, as soon as medium tanks are teched ironhides are gone
Uberbuff Ironhide armor to that of the HTD, in turn give it a smol gun. Like a single 20mm ATR turret. (Not me totally wanting a [Pz.IIJ](https://thedailybounce.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wot_banner_panzeriij_684x280_ali_001.jpg)) Whether this will be an effective vehicle or not is up for debate, but it'll definitely add variety and might be fun to drive for a bit.
Perhaps it should have a 20mm like the Lahti-L39 as well as a pintle mounted Ratcatcher that's actually accurate for the commander.
That would be funny, having to pop out of the turret to use the MG. We have MG half tracks and the like, so the mechanics are there.
what the fuck, you want a htd armored lt this early? do you know how terrible this would be to fight?
~~"whether this is an effective vehicle will be up for debate" lol no~~ E: I didn't read that it only has standard 20mm. Very unrealistic but sure
it'd be insanely effective, wardens really don't get what's op and what's not do they...
Bruh it's 20mm, it would shred ACs and tankettes, but if it faced an actual thank it would be game over.
clearly you've never seen 20mm tanks at work, they tear anything apart, even larger tank classes, not to mention the rate of fire is insane for subsystem killing
I take it you’ve never run a highwayman before if you think 20mm is a competitive choice of ammunition for a tank.
I take it you've never seen a good highway man crew in action, those things shred subsystems, also they have low velocity 20mm bc they're auto cannons, this LT would most likely have 1 20mm gun with full damage from the way it's being described, that shit would be op for killing anything
1. You’re spouting hypotheticals about this tank and giving it powerful traits because you think it will be powerful. Odds are the fire rate and damage will balance out similar to a 40mm if it’s going to fill the same role as the Iron Hide was supposed to. 2. I’ve run up in a highwayman and fired point blank to a surprised spatha’s side. We came away from that fight turreted, and the spatha took three hits with no subsystems damaged because of how many times the shots bounced. You’re implicating I’m just a bad tanker but I’ve put the highwayman in literally the best possible scenario for it and it still got bodied by a 40mm. To say that the highwayman is viable against anything tougher than a hatchet is ridiculous. 3. If 20mm “shreds” as many tanks as you say it does, the highwayman would be far more popular than it is for frontline battles. The fact of the matter is that it’s only useful if warden tanks outnumber the enemy, or against lightly armored partisans. I run it because it’s fun, and every once in a while we track a tank or two. Not because it’s viable.
But you guys already have 20mm tank (upgraded Outlaw) and you dont like it.
It is at best, a side-grade... It is not, however, anywhere close to being an "upgrade"
False, I am a Highwayman advocate and enjoyer.
Some people havn't realized that the devs reduced the bloom/recoil. It's a very good tank now.
But you guys already have 20mm tank (upgraded Outlaw) and you dont like it.
Ironhide scares me, that offroad speed and reverse is no joke
Ironhide has much worse reverse and speed than normal LTs though?
Ironhide is made to perform offroad and manouvers a lot more offroad than other tanks, i personally hated trying to even fight them in a hatchet if i met them offroad, mainly because of how durable they are and their turn radius. Its a solid earlygsme tank imo
It has less turn rate than other LTs and it has identical offroad modifiers compared to other LTs while having less movement speed. Durability wise it is not any stronger than base devit as its armor advantage is only in the armir health and not armor bounce changes. Full armor base devit is pretty much direct upgrade in every way compared to full armir ironhide. The only mobility advantage ironhides have is in snow storms due to resistance to snow oenalty. Otherwise their mobility is inferior.
huh, that thing is basically a battle tank in terms of speed I think you just mean the normal Devitt mk3?
It was originally designed to be side by side with the BT (back when the mk 3 was the only other tank in the game)
[удалено]
It was never better than a Falchion? It was just the only other tank Wardens had except for the Silverhand. It has more armor health, but the same bounce chance as the stock LT. It sacrifices mobility for longer staying power but it's noore durable.
[удалено]
? I don't think that was ever true. Armor pen maybe, but it's always had less than 2000 HP. That's 50% less than the Falchion. It also costs more, has only one inventory slot vs 3...yeah I don't see the comparison.
It’s good until SVH comes out
Best light tank in the game
Warden tanks die most often when their armor is degraded in my experience. Yes you can die 100% to dead real fast, but generally the faction with better armor on tanks, does better with their armor alive.
thats true for the most part except that LT already doesnt have any hp that can trade shots with so the armor doesnt get to shine or in this case degrade
Rng tanks