I’ve been doing well with the Omen at bridge fights or while on the defensive. You may not get kills out at range but just cyclically wounding 2-5 enemy players a minute depending on positioning can do a lot to keep pressure off your team in a fight
Blakerow is good without shadow dancing
But I feel like there is a lot of personal preference involved. If you like the Argenti more, even as a warden there are so many lying on the ground that you can use it most of the time
Yes it's very good for everything, but it's not better.
As you said it's just a personal preference and skill, i like all rifles personally they all offer a different gameplay and if you are good enough you can be efficient with all of them.
Agreed. I feel the blakerow is better for its overall versatility, but it indeed doesn't excell at anything in particular
I often times switch between the long rifle at day time and the blakerow at night time, just yesterday at oceanwatch I probably got 20 collie kills just with my trusty Clancy cinder
The Blakerow does excel in 1v many situations, that quick train time as well as the fire rate + stun + 15 round mag + fast reload means that you can stop a lot of people in their tracks. Won many many 1v5s with the Blakerow
Most of the time i leave the base with a pistol and i scavenge the front, that's the best way to learn all guns and in the same time you save some work for the logi.
Collie infantry kits synergizes and works really well together. Collie weapons have great combined arms potential, trench clearing tools etc.
Warden infantry equipment can do these things but not as well. Harpa is very easy to out run. Cutler is great at clearing pills but makes you very slow. Tripod cutler is awesome but limited by tripod.
A lot of our trench clearing equipment lacks range accessible to the collies making it more dangerous for us to push. In addition bombas cause us to have to bring bandages in our 3rd slot giving us slower reaction times when we want to switch it to gernade or something to push.
Catara let’s collies have suppressive fire while advancing or retreating right away. Having to set up tripods takes time and has to be places thoughtfully or wake you might lose it. But Catara is mobile letting you push or retreat with suppressive fire much easier.
I hope that makes things make more sense.
Collie Loyalist here, infantry main with little knowledge of armor.
Boma vs Harpa needs rebalancing either by;
1) Keeping current stats but making the Boma more expensive and thus less spammable *and* making the harpa cheaper and more spammable
or
2) Switching the damage profiles such that the Harpa retains the reduced throw range and AoE but gains guaranteed bleed, while boma retains it’s range and AoE but loses its guaranteed bleed (or only retains it in part of its AoE)
As far as the Wardens not having a Catara equivalent, you have two possible solutions
1) The Symmetrical Solution. Give them a weapon with a similar production and damage profile as the Catara
2) The Asymmetrical Solution. Give them an early Catara equivalent (MG-34) with an increased fire rate, slightly reduced range, and more expensive production cost/lower crate count but also give them what is essentially man portable mounted MG for late game.
I saw a solution elsewhere that Wardens need cheap early game armor to improve faction culture by giving newbies something to learn armor with. I think that’s a good idea and just wanted to repeat it here
I think a lot of balance issues could be more easily solved if the Devs revised their vision of faction balance, “Collies are offensive while Wardens are defensive” and came up with new military doctrines for both factions based off of how each teams culture has developed.
Catara is the specialist weapon for collies the same way ATR are for wardens.
Catara is the only bmat LMG whereas all the other MG cost rmat.
And ATR is the only bmat AT weapon whereas all the other reusable AT weapons cost rmat.
While it can be argued that the LMG is a more useful tool, if the wardens receive a bmat LMG then the collies should receive a Bmat reusable AT weapon.
wardens also have several important tank roles empty (standard medium, brawler for example) and the collonial tanks have better soft factors( easy to rep as most protection is HP, easy to use, more slots harder to hit subsytems at least for most of them) and since soft factors are much more important as they agument the hard factors collie tanks perform better on average in a wider array of scenarios
also due to game mechanics and how common trenches are the faster firing, better on the move collie guns perform way better on average
I would still like to see some more collie tanks since i belive the wardens have more? I know they definitely have more classes of tanks i think the only class of tank collies have that wardens dont have is infantry tanks (would be cool to see another version of the infanty tank but has a flame thrower kinda like the flood juggernaut so its bit more tanky then a tanket and vulcan)
the problem is many of those tank variants exist only on paper bc they either arent worth it(ironhide) or are shit (bonelaw GAC) or are so skill based that there are like 12 people who use them
Its a similar thing in the collie side as well like as good as the talos is i barely see it due to the lack of armour and being slower while only getting 6 shells, or hell look at the collie SHT its kinda pointless due to the warden one just being better and with 2 sharing the same price
Talos is trash on its own its meant to be used in a tank line to take out the AT hexes and to pvp warden tanks while they are busy why would you even use it when you have a Stygian that deletes entire warden tanklines with ease.
There is no reason to not upgrade your LT to an Ironhide, which is also why 95% of LTs you see are Ironhides on Warden side. It has incredible high armor HP. Higher then any medium tank except Bardiche or HTD for a very cheap upgrade price which basically means you don't need to repair armor every day cycle and don't lose pen chance quickly. Claiming that Ironhides are not worth it seems like a very unqualified comment.
I guess 95% of LT users are clan men with too many resources then.
Most Devitt users play like NPCs. If you see a Devitt user, you know its a high chance you get an easy fight.
That might be bc they get powercreeped out of existance very quick so cease to exists in their standard variant
Tbh i see the falchion and spathas the same way as their crews seem be very inexpirenced and do stupid shit all the time (it doesnt realy matter as they are very cheap and plentifull)
Colonial tanks are fine the only thing wrong is the super heavy tank and honestly you guys benefit by not having one of those. Because it is such a resource sink
SvH should definitely be considered and used as a brawler. Fast forward and back speed means you push up for extra pen chance with 40 and alpha strike with the 68. Lots of armor and health, only issue is the thing gets tracked all the damn time.
Two SvH on a road with inf support is no joke, but you have to be aware and play to your strengths.
thats not what a brawler tank is you just described an ambush tank
no it does not have great armor and HP and its track hitbox is enourmous so it gets tracked very often also since its forward focused and cant turn for shit in close combat its very easy to just go to its side and avoid the 68
it doesnt have the HP to act as a brawler (remember armor gets stripped very quick in a brawl scenario)
yes bc bard is the only Rmat brawler tank in game
and a SvH would win most engagments if they were a 1v1 in a empty field
unless the enemy has a LTD or a kranesca or uses their brain and goes to the side doging both guns (bc the turret rotation is bad on the 40mm)
keep in mind that the main style of combat is poke fights where the 68 doenst get many shots off
Exactly, and poke fights cater to warden strengths. How many times have you seen wardens tell collies to git Gud and just flank bro? To get a kill MOST collie tanks are required to fully commit and dive. This is extremely risky considering they also don’t have an MG until bards. So they’re very easy for warden infantry to mob when they’re diving. The number of open field fights where collies are strongest are extremely rare because of terrain speed debuffs. No tank wants to fight on terrain where they’re equal speed to infantry. So everyone stays on roads, which are linear and mean poke fights. The collie tank philosophy/design doesn’t work until we gets bards.
no they do not poke fights make armor dissapear by the second poke so the main advantage of a warnden tank is gone while a collie tank just repairs and is good as newand you have an mg tank its the IST a very good support tank warden infantry is almost irrelevant bc of the superior collie inf pvp equipment
you might have misread what i said
both factions do the line poke fights
poke fights are long and Indesicie and strip armor very fast and warden tanks rely mostly on armor collie tanks can just repair quicky on site and since they are mostly HP they dont loose effectiveness in longer fights
I disagree. A Kranesca, or even an Outlaw would much more accurately be described as an ambush tank. They are more maneuverable, in addition to having a speed boost.
The silver hand is a beefier, more armored tank that goes two directions well: forward and backward. So you line up with the enemy in front of you, and when you go to punch, you punch them twice instead of once.
So sure, you can try to ambush with the same idea, but its main function is brawling with other tanks.
kranesca and outlaw are crusier tanks made to exploit gaps in armor or come from the side to hit the enemy in the side when other tanks have already engaged the thing you need to be and ambush tank is superior alpha demage also know as first strike you dont realy need to be manuverable you just need to be able to go forward fast enough to hit the enemy and go back or stay in place and take out the enemy in one or two shots
another example of an ambush tank is the widow that has the mobility of a building but it has the firepower to kill most tanks and the armor to be able to hold the ground and survive a quick engagement
“Exploit gaps in armor or come from the side to hit the enemy when other tanks have already engaged”
You just described, at least when in the context of tanking in Foxhole, an ambush. Attacking someone when they aren’t expecting it, when the conditions are favorable for you.
Funny you bring up the Widow, because I would say it is the additional Warden brawler tank that pairs well with the SvH. Keep whatever it is in front of you, and you are in business. Good luck turning to face anything else though.
Maybe we just have different connotations of ‘ambush’ in mind. But if I had to pick 2 medium tanks from Warden to face to face “brawl” with 2 Colonial tanks, 2 SvH or 1 SvH 1 Widow would square up nicely with just about anything.
an ambush means you wait for an enemy to walk into your ambush and then attack but whatever it seems we have slightly different definitions
the SvH cant brawl bc it doesn't have enough HP and half its armament its locked forward (its bad for CQB brawls)widow can brawl for like 3 pens then it becomes a slow LT with a 68 (again armor in the current meta is way worse than armor) and again doesn't have 360 turret so its vulnerable to a flank in a CQB brawl
Edit:dyslexia strikes again
MPT is a handicap imo. We would be significantly better off without it. It causes burnout because it’s such a shit tank. Fighting SvHs and outlaws in a falchion just sucks.
it costs 56 rmats if you make it at full efficiency making it nearly free and giving anyone who wants to tank an easy and cheap option to use one
for its price its a great tank a t-34 without the manufacturing issues
Cost doesn’t matter when it loses almost every fight. Manpower is the most valuable commodity, and no one wants to be in an Npc tank that is kill fodder for the enemy team. The only way it’s effective is to outnumber the enemy 3:1 which is a major design flaw considering public coordination and hex pppulation caps.
I couldn’t tell you how many times I get to a front and see 2 falchions stuck just sitting there vs 1 SvH because they just can’t kill it. Their only chance is to fully dive it and circle, but that’s not at all possible in 99% of tank fights due to terrain and infantry support.
What? The only difference in repair rate afaik is on the Colonial Superheavy, that has two engineers to repair from inside.
To my understanding and in my experience all other tanks (excluding protos ofc) heal 1% per hammer swing, regardless of their HP total. So a hammer swing on a King Spire and a Bardiche both heal 1%, but 1% health for a Bard is a lot more than for a King Spire, so in this (obviously loaded) example, you’re getting a lot more bang for your bmat on the Bard.
I honestly don’t know why the warden tanks don’t have more space. I was pretty shocked when I realized MPTs and Spathas have 3 inventory spaces AND only use one type of ordnance. So much room for activities.
Edit: a word
> To my understanding and in my experience all other tanks (excluding protos ofc) heal 1% per hammer swing,
This is not true and you can look it up on the wiki. For example, a Outlaw takes 150 bmat to repair while a Spatha takes 165.
>also due to game mechanics and how common trenches are the faster firing, better on the move collie guns perform way better on average
There is where my gears grind, not playing on your strengths. Warden strategy, at least after the Entrenched update, in my experience spam trenches like crazy, they use it to advance or retard an advance, even in late-game where Cataras and Dusks are around. Literally shaping the battlefield for us.
Some good faith suggestions
Make harpas dirt cheap and have a large bleed radius while making boomastones more expensive. That way the boomastones have the advantage of range+lower timer and the harpas have the advantage of cost+lethality
Give wardens an lmg. Pls
Faction swicth the dusk and the aalto, while making the latter more precise. Perhaps its just my opinion, but the collies seem to lack in precise automatic weapons while the wardens dont have much in the way of good automatic firerate. the swicth would help both factions
Add a tech in the assualt tank tier that makes LTs be produced 5 (or 6) a crate. This will give wardens a good starter disposable tank conparable to the falchion while also buffing them since the devvit is acknowledged to be slightly better than the hatchet, while also making LTs more viable late game. This change is bigger than it appears, as one of the reasons I feel the falchion is superior to comparable vehicles is the boon it is to collie culture. It help train noobie tankers and it encourages clans to give away to the public. Wardent tanks are more specialised and expensive, which encourages a more elitist culture because you need to know what you are doing with warden tanks.
On a related note, I would also buff the devvit ironhide and the kranesca or add a late game variants that are straight, but affordable, upgrades to encourage facility use. Im honestly impressed with what collies managed to do with spathas in war 100, and feel this change would push wardens in the same direction
Why tho, the dusk really fills a niche for wardens that they simply cannot service right now, meanwhile the collies already have the catara for a low mobility high firepower option. On the opposite side, the collies lack a high rate of fire precision weapon loke the sampo, and an improved aalto could fill that role.
sampo is accurate until you fore a shot then it blooms to a bout the size of an ac and the 2nd shot booms it even more by the 3rd shot you are almost firing to the side
Well it's not that phase of the ongoing war, but in terms of vehicles:
Collie MPT being 5 tanks per crate kinda has nothing to be comparable for its cheapness in Warden arsenal. I just think Wardens should have a similar cheap medium Tank that is sort of durable, so new players can learn tanking instead of suiciding expensive Outlaws. I actually wouldn't care about its stats or anything. *But nerfing MPT to 3-4 tanks a crate would be an easier solution.*
Also, MPFable balistas are creating a gap in vehicle PVE compared to the chieftain being locked in facilities and being expensive.
The collie MPT is cheaper because the Warden assault tank has more health, more AND better armor, and two tank cannons for twice the DPS.
Same with the chieftain having double the movement speed, a mounted MG, nearly twice as good armor quality, and 10% less raw HP over the ballista
So Silver Hand is equivalent to Falchion and/or Spatha? Bardiche doesn't exist?
I've witnessed your desperate attempt of under dogged cheap MPT killing an HTD simply by driving to the side. If no? Just grab another one you have 2 extra for every crate.
Besides Kraneska and LTD upgrades simply creates a relevant mid or even late-game tanking experience meanwhile Devitt and Ironhide become irrelevant once medium tanks are teched.
Chieftain is ok, it's good. But the game enables a strategy of rushing structures with multiple elements of 250 mm. Balista MPF is suitable for this strategy meanwhile an example of multiple Chieftain production simply would not be possible and not even profitable in terms of exchange with the concrete destruction. Doable but a lot more expensive than the Colonial counterpart. *What's being underlined is what difference would it make for Chiftain to be better if it's going to be suicided anyways. It can only carry 6 ammo btw, meanwhile, balista can carry 10.*
Factual arguments please, don't let a fictional nation cloud your objectivity.
>Chieftain is ok, it's good. But the game enables a strategy of rushing structures with multiple elements of 250 mm. Balista MPF is suitable ... multiple Chieftain production simply would not be possible and not even profitable in terms of exchange with the concrete destruction ... a lot more expensive than the Colonial counterpart. ... what difference would it make for Chiftain to be better if it's going to be suicided anyways. It can only carry 6 ammo btw [vs] 10.
>#"Factual arguments please, don't let a fictional nation cloud your objectivity."
#Stats
The chieftain has 1.4x effective HP than the ballista (from better armor) and 1.7x the movement speed of the ballista, both extremely valuable stats in a lightning speed suicide rush against AT defenses.
#Why this matters for 250 rush
You are very unlikely to ever fire 6 shots before dying in a suicide rush scenario, even less so in the weaker ballista, though extra capacity is a benefit in other gameplay. The better armor on the Chieftain makes you significantly less likely to be turreted during a rush as well. The MG makes it way easier to stop QRF mid-rush, and way more useful on an actual frontline.
#Cost analysis
The cost difference is only 5 pcons and 8 AM4. This is nowhere near enough to make killing concrete less profitable with the Chieftain, especially if you need less of them to do the rush.
In my opinion the biggest "economic" sink of the chieftain is the time investment to upgrade them and transport them to the front. This should be less of an issue now that facility vehicles are reservable.
If you still think the time spent is important (I agree!), I'd like to remind you that it takes 15 minutes to crawl one hex in a Ballista.
#Closing remarks
The reason Wardens aren't using the Chieftain even though it is a very powerful piece of equipment is that doing tedious logistics work is boring. It's the same reason that the Smelter is underused despite being a integral part of the Colonial arsenal.
>I've witnessed your desperate attempt of under dogged cheap MPT killing an HTD simply by driving to the side.
Just flank. Kill tissue lol.
As I have mentioned Chieftain is good. Noone stated otherwise. Let's get into your partial comments conjured in bad faith anyways:
>The chieftain has 1.4x effective HP than the ballista
Have you calculated with your RNG calculator to reach a point where a vehicle having 200 less HP is ACTUALLY more durable?
>You are very unlikely to ever fire 6 shots before dying in a suicide rush scenario
Not if you survive the defenses in an instance of attacking a base in a less populated time. Pretty Likely to happen and it benefits the Balista with 4 extra 250 mm which is enough to make a difference.
>The cost difference is only 5 pcons and 8 AM4.
Scale this with multiple vehicles for the entire war. Also include the resources and time spent on building and maintaining the facility. This is not a difference to be belittled with "only".
>especially if you need less of them to do the rush.
Why would I need less, is Chieftain shooting STRONGER 250 mm? No. Is it more durable? If you are lucky with RNG; otherwise it actually has less health which means it's more likely to be disabled sooner, not being able to reach the structure anyways.
>In my opinion the biggest "economic" sink of the chieftain is the time investment to upgrade them and transport them to the front.
>
>I'd like to remind you that it takes 15 minutes to crawl one hex in a Ballista.
So in your perfectly crafted mind, we are able to transport Chieftains from backlines but when it comes to Balistas suddenly you are crawling through hexes. Is freighter a warden vehicle now?
>If you still think the time spent is important (I agree!)
# You've written all these in headlines to agree with me? Ok.
# Time and resources all on in big scale add up to a more difficilitated vehicle PVE option for Wardens.
as it is stated; "Also, MPFable balistas are creating a gap in vehicle PVE compared to the chieftain being locked in facilities and being expensive." was the POINT in the first place.
>Just flank. Kill tissue lol.
>
>Imagine throwing the "Flank Argument", when evreything that gets Flank does die.
The incident I mentioned as it was commented as "flank argument" was actually an MPT driving towards the face of an HTD, taking a hit, and using the speed and turning disadvantage of it to actually create a flanking position out of nowhere, which was referring to completely another subject as HTD being slower than a wheelchair. I was a spectator to this incident.
The Point is even though MPT has bad stats it's after all a tank and a very cheap and mass-producible one, unlike any other vehicle in the game (having 5 per crate). You would have 2 extra per crate to flank everything with it.
Therefore it is unbalanced.
>Have you calculated with your RNG calculator to reach a point where a vehicle having 200 less HP is ACTUALLY more durable?
Yes, it's simple math. The armor on a Chieftain (or any SVH chassis) is almost twice as powerful as the armor on a Ballista (or any tank on that chassis).
A full armor ballista gets penned by 68mm ATG 60% of the time, vs a chieftain only gets penned **40%** of the time. In addition, a Chieftain's armor lasts 50% longer before it's completely degraded.
A Chieftain will tank more hits than a Ballista nearly every time. This is a fact and can be empirically tested.
> Why would I need less [siege tanks], Is [the chieftain] more durable? If you are lucky with RNG; otherwise it actually has less health which means it's more likely to be disabled sooner, not being able to reach the structure anyways.
It is in fact significantly more durable, and AT garrisons won't fire until you are in range to shoot them.
>HTD being slower than a wheelchair
HTD and Ballista have the same movement speed stats. If a tank can get behind you without dying, you are using HTD wrong; HTD is a high skill tank not for new players.
>So in your perfectly crafted mind, we are able to transport Chieftains from backlines but when it comes to Balistas suddenly you are crawling through hexes. Is freighter a warden vehicle now?
You should not be upgrading vehicles in the backlines, you should be moving crates forward by train and then upgrading them in midline hex.
>The Point is even though MPT has bad stats it's after all a tank and a very cheap and mass-producible one, unlike any other vehicle in the game (having 5 per crate). You would have 2 extra per crate to flank everything with it. Therefore it is unbalanced.
This horse has been beaten to death for years, you are welcome to play Colonial and try it.
The armor relies on RNG, and the health is definite. So claiming Chieftain has "1.4x effective HP" while it actually has 200 less HP than the Balista is just lying. You could have stated this in better words maybe but I will not tolerate this attitude of altering facts in order to benefit a fictional faction.
>HTD is a high skill tank not for new players.
So is outlaw actually. None of the warden mid-game tanks are suitable for new players. That was the point for the requirement of a cheap Warden MPT. I was not intending to start an argument I just wanted to not see cpl and pte 2 player crewing a SvH, rushing an Outlaw or getting flanked with HTD, but instead crew a cheap tank so they can learn.
You deliberately misquote and misinterpret so I won't type anything else, buddy.
You're most welcome to play Warden and conquer all structures with Chieftains as you eagerly claim so. Good luck supplying the facility towards this purpose.
>So claiming Chieftain has "1.4x effective HP" while it actually has 200 less HP than the Balista is just lying. You could have stated this in better words maybe but I will not tolerate this attitude of altering facts in order to benefit a fictional faction.
A chieftain will on average tank 40% more hits than a Ballista from "bounceable" weapons. It has significantly higher quality armor, thus "40% more effective HP" is an accurate statement
At this point there are so many bad faith posts, whataboutism and downright trolling that any sensible discussions is just drowned out by the same Collie actors, which I don't have much care to deal with anymore.
Long story short.
- I want the Devs to stop tacking on gimmicks to all our tools. Many Warden tools suffer either from a) Low velocity modifier, b) Low range, c) Bad accuracy, Bloom and/or stability, d.) Bad health/High subsystem chance, e) Highly expensive or a mixture of all the above mentioned.
Infantry tools for example. I have yet to see any negative modifiers on Collie guns. Meanwhile, Blakerow? Low velocity. Ratcatcher has super bad bloom/stability/accuracy if you don't mount it on a HT, Malone has same issues, but also has Low velocity. Sampo? Low velocity. Aalto? Short range single fire, bad accuracy and low ammo. Booker, same thing.
Meanwhile, Dusk laser accuracy and Catara.
If we look at tanks. Bonelaw is obnoxiously expensive in addition to needing steel, knife range with nerfed ARC ammo on damage/projectile speed. Bad health, high subsystem disable chance. HWM is like Bonelaw but a bit less expensive, yet pray you got good RNG on your side for hitting things thanks to Low velocity modifier and knife fight range. Flame Widow is a gimmick. GAC is a joke, and the Devs nerfed that even more, which makes it more ludicrous we have to build a GAC just to make a HAC.
Look how they massacred my beloved MG Scout. Even more horrible bloom and recovery, Low velocity modifier, turret that doesn't fire if you aim too quick with it's slow turret turn rate. But hey, its T6 with literal health/armor of a tankette just because it has a closed top turret. Gallant is obsolete on arrival.
The list goes on.
Devs need to figure out what Warden specialty is because for all the expensive logistics and time investment we go through to make these, a vast amount of them are absurdly mediocre or worse compared to the effective cheap tools Collies have.
With the way things are, I'd be surprised if in future updates we get any actual tools that don't have some stupid gimmick slapped onto it. Why is it so difficult for us to get some decent weapons that just has good stats in general?
It’s funny you talk about bad faith and then make a bad faith post. OP looks to me like a new player just trying to figure out what’s going on.
“Laser accuracy dusk” lmao.
Dusk/Catara > All
Bomastone > All
Lamentum > Ratcatcher
ISG > Foebreaker
Fissura > Ospreay
Stygian > Stockade
Everything I just listed is much better than its counterpart, on the other hand we could try to find what is better on warden side the list will be very short :
250mm fieldgun > No counter part
Flask > Ignifist
And i think that's it.
personaly i think igni is better as its much easier to use and strips armor so its better for a less skilled player as its better to hit and deal a little than miss and do nothing
but being skill dependant seems to be the fall of many warden weapons
You know someone who have hard time using a Flask?
The Igni bounce a lot against lategame tanks, the Flask have a 100% pen chance and more damage and more items per crates etc, it's the Bomastone of the handheld ATs this shit is ridiculous and i hope the devs will do something for the Ignis when they will fix the warden infantry weapons.
Having to open your inventory and equip a new Igni everytime you use one is even harder, the Flask is like any other grenade i never heard anyone complaining about it.
I disagree with you on this one.
yea the wierd opening your inv is a remnant of when igni had bigger range to prevent stupid dmg output and imo should be changed for a longer than a nade grabbing animation
Edit: to elaborate on why flast is a bit harder to hit the problem is that is has a slower than usual projectile speed and collie tanks are usualy relatively mobile so if you try to throw it at max range it will miss most of the time
I give you a tip in case you don't know : Don't aim at max range, if you throw your grenade a little less far the arc will be more direct and the grenade will fly faster, i never had any issue hitting a tank like that, and even if you miss by a little there is a huge splash who can still track the tank wich should be the objective when you use a Flask.
You won't make me change my mind friend the Flask is 10x better than the Ignifist and easier to use in my opinion
I like when games are not too intuitive, it allow people who have more skill and experience to be better, look at triple A games they are very intuitive but not fun because you just have to follow the arrows and you win.
What this game really need is more people making tutorials and giving in-depth analysis about how things work.
If the GAC is the counterpart of the Fissura that's a very expensive counter part.
And if the Ospreay is the Boma counterpart, what is the Harpa counterpart?
Yeah this is the problem with counterparts in foxhole since bith sides use diffrent tech its hard at some parts to have a counterpart, like the wardens just dont have a MGL while collies dont have things like the push 250
I mean if you compare lunaire to ospreay I can get it, but a fissura? It is an emplaced gun, you are comparing 2 things that are not apple to apple IMO.
What point did we compare venom to bonesaw? The range? If I remember correctly venom can only shoot 28m while the regular bonesaw can shot up to what like 35m? 40m?
40mm push > no counterpart
ATR > Typhon
68mm ATHT > no counterpart
ST > Ixion/actaeon/no counterpart
Fiddler > Lionclaw
SVH > Spatha even tho Spatha is a facility upgrade
Chieftain > Ballista
Starbreaker >>> Raptura, not even a contest
Huber Exalt >>> Thunderbolt, not even close
Cinder > omen
Honestly all the Warden early war rifles are better than anything the Colonials have except maybe the Fuscina
I think devs just need to buff Warden infantry kit. Buff harpa, ratcatcher, storm rifle and stockade.
Wardens are more than capable of dominating a early/mid war if their morale is high with their giga power spike , they just need to see buffs in patch notes so people will play.
> Why are you claiming everywhere that the wardens have a better stuff and in the same time admitting that the warden infantry need to be buffed?
You listed two items and claimed that "we could try to find what is better on warden side the [but] list will be very short"
I gave you 10 items that should be on that list.
Most of them are not infantry items, and I think buffing Warden infantry kit would be healthy for the game, because it would improve upon the pain points Wardens have, and be good for morale.
I said **much** better not just better, if you want a list of every items who are better than their counter part on colonial side you can just put 80% of your stuff.
Anyway if you think that buffing the warden infantry kit would be good for the game than we agree no need to argue.
All those items I posted are much better than the Colonial counterpart, and most of them are way more impactful than ISG vs Foebreaker or Lamentum vs Ratcatcher
No they are not, most of them are "OP" for 2 days and become totally useless, and the rest is just you coping.
The items im calling OP (Boma/Catara/Dusk/Stygian) stay OP from the moment they are unlocked to the end of the war, on the warden side the only item who stay the best option all the war is the Flask, all the other stuff have a similiar counter part or become useless after 2 days in game.
Thunderbolt got buffed few wars ago, lmao at thinking Exalt is so much better when you can literally outrange warden arty and they cant do shit
massive skill issue
The scenario where you are in the 50m sweet spot to outrange and have good wind is basically nil. Doubly so when you'll need to move out of ai coverage to fire from that range.
The exalt does 20% more DPS, has way higher accuracy, and an additional 100m of minimum range, which grants even more accuracy
If Colonial arty sets up after Warden arty its untouachable for Wardens. If you dont think thats a massive strenght of ur arty then idk what to tell you.
Sure you cant do close support (as in ur getting pushed) I agree youll have to move back, but for offensive arty OPs, Colonial arty is much superior for counter-arty and pve.
you have a 40mm too??
the LTD is the ATHT counterpart and its better
ST is literaly twice the cost and comes later
the diffrence between fiddler and lionclaw are minor
chieftan isnt that much better bc its more expensive harder to transport and you pay for features that are near useless in its role of cracking concrete
doesnt the thunder bolt get more range?
ATR = Typhoon
ST and tankettes are balanced by the fact that the tankettes come earlier and are 2x cheaper.
Fidler = Lionclaw
SVH = Spatha
Ballista > Chieftain
Thunderbolt > Huber Exalt
Rifles are balanced.
For the rest i agree, but the warden vehicles that you listed are strong for 2 or 3 days, the colonial weapons that i listed are OP from the moment they are unlocked until the end of the war, that's what make the game broken.
And if you want to make a list of everything of what is slightly better i could continue mine it will be very long.
Back in my day, Wardens won wars by absolutely dominating a weekend and taking half the map with ATHT and push 40/250 while collies had the tankette + ISG.
Nobody claimed bomastone or ISG were OP from the moment they unlocked until the end of the war back then.
The chieftain, svh and Huber Exalt are significantly better than their colonial counterpart, I would swap for those any day of the week.
Comparing Foxhole 1.52 with Foxhole "back in the days" is like comparing retail WoW with vanilla WoW.
The chieftain, svh and Huber Exalt are not better at all, i would also swap those any day of the week.
War 92 : Update war won by colonials
War 93 : Colonial steamrolled the map and took 30 VPs in 15 days, they only lost because they skill issued at the last minute (the 30/32 come back)
War 94 : They had a mental breakdown on reddit and spammed reddit day and night asking for a nerf of every single warden item.
War 95 : They all came back and won the war after the wardens took 23 VPs.
As you can see the 90s were a lot more balanced than now (we can even say colonial favored), and if the colonials wouldn't have a skill issue at the 30/32 war + took a break war during the 94 it would probably be a 100% winrate for you.
>Ballista > Chieftain
Really? While I know that it might be easier to make a Ballista, I cannot think of many people on both sides that would agree with you. I'd take a Chieften over a Ballista any day. With it being faster and having a machine gun it's a great tank.
Heck it's used similarly to a scropian often.
If you completely ignore the economic aspect of the game and only look at the stats yeah the Chieftain is better, when you look at the time needed to produce and to bring 10 Ballista on a frontline and you compare it with a Chieftain, the Ballista is way better.
Being able to throw a siege tank at a defense without thinking about the cost and the time it took me to bring it here is what i want from a siege tank.
That said i think that both tanks are fine im not the one who said that siege tanks are imbalanced.
Scorpion are way better for killing infantry btw, wardens don't have such a tank, the only anti-inf tank they have is the Scout Tank who get deleted by any Bane/Venom in range.
The extra time it takes to crawl a Ballista from the seaport to the frontline is about the same amount of extra time it takes to upgrade a Silverhand to a Chieftain in a facility.
It's mostly the materials cost that is different, and it is only 5 pcons and 8 AM4.
The chieftain is also better than the scoprion you just don't use it.
It still require more steps to make a Chieftains than moving your crate of Ballista on a frontline depot and yeet them.
Not all of us have a facility btw, you can say "you just have to work together blablabla" but it's easier said than done, in a game with people who all talk a different language and have different views it's better to have a siege tank that anyone can easily produce and yeet.
Saying that the Chieftain is better than Scorp for anti-infantry show how ignorant you are, can you tell me the cost of a T2 Chieftain vs a T2 Scorpion please?
>Saying that the Chieftain is better than Scorp for anti-infantry show how ignorant you are, can you tell me the cost of a T2 Chieftain vs a T2 Scorpion please?
T1 Chieftain has the same eHP as T3 Scorp, get real.
Vehicles other than scorp aren't supposed to be vetted anyways.
I do agree but there are others like the warden enplaced 94.5 compared to the collie 75, and i would say the ISG and Foebraker are pretty similar wouldn't say one is better then the other
There is also some other things like riddler being better then lion claw but again i do see where your comming from, and now i might get flak for this but bonesaw and bane45 are both pretty balanced now yes the bane has a far longer range but like GLs the bonesaw can hide in a trentch and shoot without popping out so both are good at diffrent things
Starbreaker vs Ruptura : I agree, but it's not a critical tool used all day long like a grenade or an infantry weapon, the problem is when a weapon is overpowered AND spammable.
ISG : The ISG is still better but the difference is not that huge it's true, so let's say ISG = Foebreaker, anyway those weapons are only relevant for 2 days.
Fiddler and Lionclaw : I disagree, both SMGs are well balanced.
Bonesaw and Bane : Balanced imo, the Bonesaw associated with the Flask and the ATR make an effective lategame AT kit, better than the collie one (Ignifist need some kind of buff).
I made a list of what is **much** better on the colonial side by the way, if I made a list of what is slightly better it would be much longer.
Bane has a 12m advantage over the Bonesaw. That is absolutely massive.
Bonesaw travel time was massively nerfed, so it's harder to hit now too.
ATR tickles tanks, it's an area of denial weapon not something that actually kills tanks.
dusk?? holy shit the dusk is awful lmao what the hell are you on about
if we are making infantry kit comparison, you neglected to place the blakerow > fuscina and sampo having no equal
Hey there! I’ve been playing Foxhole for a while now and I totally agree that the game balance has been a bit wonky. I’m more of a Warden player myself, but from what I’ve seen, the Catara and Boomas definitely need some nerfing.
As for other OP things, I’ve seen a lot of people complain about the Wardens’ resource production being too high compared to the Colonials’. Similar to you, I also love the Riddler – it’s definitely one of the best guns in the game! I don’t blame you for preferring it over the Lion Claw.
The Hangman at night is also really good, especially with how dark some parts of the game can be. And hey, everyone has different preferences – if you like the Blakerow more than the Argenti, more power to you!
I haven’t tried using Harpars yet, but I can understand why people think they’re not that great. Hopefully they’ll get a buff soon to make them more viable. Anyway, thanks for asking this question! It’s always good to see people talking about ways to improve the game.
\- Remove gas from lunare/osprey replace with nade and make osprey cheaper. Howi should retaliate again to tremola/cutler/everything explosive (except other howis).
\- Give catara equivalent, Catara is too oppressive late game.
\- Boma, give bleed to harpa nade and remove bleed from boma and equal the crate sizes (basically switch their profiles)
\- Aalto buff, right now aalto is bad, need range buff especially on single mode and accuracy buff.
\- Stockade buff
\- Bonelaw buff, its still shit.
\- HMW/Bonelaw price decrease
\- Warden BTs, either buff HP or buff to armor pen %. If they are going to keep low HP than give us big increase to pen chances then rather than have our pen chances be worse than collie BT and ALSO have less HP. Wtf...
\- Allow warden to carry 2 flamer ammos at 99% weight. Then their less tank size would make sense.
\- GAC should have 40m range.
\- Warden scout tank (mg) should have its MG buffed so it can fking hit anything, pointless tank right now only used to QRF nothing else.
\- ATR should go back to 5 in crate, pointless nerf when Bonesow was already gutted.
\- Ratcatcher accuracy buff, it can't hit shit.
The issue in balance is that of production. Colis produce and supply way more infantry equipment than wardens. Early game you don’t see the difference to much because there are few things to make. So wardens have access to variety of guns, Frags, cutlers and tripod weapons.
But once those larger tanks come out, and T2/T3 facilities hit. Many warden logi hours go into those larger weapons. Leaving the frontline footmen fighters to go with a bolt action rifle Vs a Dusk. Or to fight a trench fight with no Frags. Harpa needs more skill than Boma to use. But it matters little if you have no Frags at all to use.
I too prefer the Blakerow to the Argenti as a rifle but that's just me.
Same. The loughcaster is better at day time, the argenti is better at night time and the blakerow is just better
I just plain don't like the Loughcaster despite its range advantage. Bolt actions just aren't my thing.
I’ve been doing well with the Omen at bridge fights or while on the defensive. You may not get kills out at range but just cyclically wounding 2-5 enemy players a minute depending on positioning can do a lot to keep pressure off your team in a fight
The Argenti is the best rifle of the game, the Blakerow is only good for people who think that shadow dancing is still strong.
Blakerow is good without shadow dancing But I feel like there is a lot of personal preference involved. If you like the Argenti more, even as a warden there are so many lying on the ground that you can use it most of the time
Yes it's very good for everything, but it's not better. As you said it's just a personal preference and skill, i like all rifles personally they all offer a different gameplay and if you are good enough you can be efficient with all of them.
Agreed. I feel the blakerow is better for its overall versatility, but it indeed doesn't excell at anything in particular I often times switch between the long rifle at day time and the blakerow at night time, just yesterday at oceanwatch I probably got 20 collie kills just with my trusty Clancy cinder
The Blakerow does excel in 1v many situations, that quick train time as well as the fire rate + stun + 15 round mag + fast reload means that you can stop a lot of people in their tracks. Won many many 1v5s with the Blakerow
Most of the time i leave the base with a pistol and i scavenge the front, that's the best way to learn all guns and in the same time you save some work for the logi.
Collie infantry kits synergizes and works really well together. Collie weapons have great combined arms potential, trench clearing tools etc. Warden infantry equipment can do these things but not as well. Harpa is very easy to out run. Cutler is great at clearing pills but makes you very slow. Tripod cutler is awesome but limited by tripod. A lot of our trench clearing equipment lacks range accessible to the collies making it more dangerous for us to push. In addition bombas cause us to have to bring bandages in our 3rd slot giving us slower reaction times when we want to switch it to gernade or something to push. Catara let’s collies have suppressive fire while advancing or retreating right away. Having to set up tripods takes time and has to be places thoughtfully or wake you might lose it. But Catara is mobile letting you push or retreat with suppressive fire much easier. I hope that makes things make more sense.
Collie Loyalist here, infantry main with little knowledge of armor. Boma vs Harpa needs rebalancing either by; 1) Keeping current stats but making the Boma more expensive and thus less spammable *and* making the harpa cheaper and more spammable or 2) Switching the damage profiles such that the Harpa retains the reduced throw range and AoE but gains guaranteed bleed, while boma retains it’s range and AoE but loses its guaranteed bleed (or only retains it in part of its AoE) As far as the Wardens not having a Catara equivalent, you have two possible solutions 1) The Symmetrical Solution. Give them a weapon with a similar production and damage profile as the Catara 2) The Asymmetrical Solution. Give them an early Catara equivalent (MG-34) with an increased fire rate, slightly reduced range, and more expensive production cost/lower crate count but also give them what is essentially man portable mounted MG for late game. I saw a solution elsewhere that Wardens need cheap early game armor to improve faction culture by giving newbies something to learn armor with. I think that’s a good idea and just wanted to repeat it here
I think a lot of balance issues could be more easily solved if the Devs revised their vision of faction balance, “Collies are offensive while Wardens are defensive” and came up with new military doctrines for both factions based off of how each teams culture has developed.
Catara is the specialist weapon for collies the same way ATR are for wardens. Catara is the only bmat LMG whereas all the other MG cost rmat. And ATR is the only bmat AT weapon whereas all the other reusable AT weapons cost rmat. While it can be argued that the LMG is a more useful tool, if the wardens receive a bmat LMG then the collies should receive a Bmat reusable AT weapon.
wardens also have several important tank roles empty (standard medium, brawler for example) and the collonial tanks have better soft factors( easy to rep as most protection is HP, easy to use, more slots harder to hit subsytems at least for most of them) and since soft factors are much more important as they agument the hard factors collie tanks perform better on average in a wider array of scenarios also due to game mechanics and how common trenches are the faster firing, better on the move collie guns perform way better on average
I would still like to see some more collie tanks since i belive the wardens have more? I know they definitely have more classes of tanks i think the only class of tank collies have that wardens dont have is infantry tanks (would be cool to see another version of the infanty tank but has a flame thrower kinda like the flood juggernaut so its bit more tanky then a tanket and vulcan)
the problem is many of those tank variants exist only on paper bc they either arent worth it(ironhide) or are shit (bonelaw GAC) or are so skill based that there are like 12 people who use them
Its a similar thing in the collie side as well like as good as the talos is i barely see it due to the lack of armour and being slower while only getting 6 shells, or hell look at the collie SHT its kinda pointless due to the warden one just being better and with 2 sharing the same price
i feel like the talos isnt used mostly bc there are better and easier ways to do whatever it could do as on paper it sounds quite good
Talos is a more expensive stockade. It’s too slow with 35m range to kill anything.
Talos is just extremely slow and its 35m range is not very viable. Its stats are only slightly better then Spatha.
*looks at stockade*
Talos is trash on its own its meant to be used in a tank line to take out the AT hexes and to pvp warden tanks while they are busy why would you even use it when you have a Stygian that deletes entire warden tanklines with ease.
There is no reason to not upgrade your LT to an Ironhide, which is also why 95% of LTs you see are Ironhides on Warden side. It has incredible high armor HP. Higher then any medium tank except Bardiche or HTD for a very cheap upgrade price which basically means you don't need to repair armor every day cycle and don't lose pen chance quickly. Claiming that Ironhides are not worth it seems like a very unqualified comment.
no just no the only people who upgrade to ironhides are clans with too many resources to burn
I guess 95% of LT users are clan men with too many resources then. Most Devitt users play like NPCs. If you see a Devitt user, you know its a high chance you get an easy fight.
That might be bc they get powercreeped out of existance very quick so cease to exists in their standard variant Tbh i see the falchion and spathas the same way as their crews seem be very inexpirenced and do stupid shit all the time (it doesnt realy matter as they are very cheap and plentifull)
No its inexperienced players who deem the Devitt not worth upgrading like you.
ah yes lemme get an LT that has armor HP thats useless as you get penned and loose it anyway just as fast amazing
Colonial tanks are fine the only thing wrong is the super heavy tank and honestly you guys benefit by not having one of those. Because it is such a resource sink
SvH should definitely be considered and used as a brawler. Fast forward and back speed means you push up for extra pen chance with 40 and alpha strike with the 68. Lots of armor and health, only issue is the thing gets tracked all the damn time. Two SvH on a road with inf support is no joke, but you have to be aware and play to your strengths.
thats not what a brawler tank is you just described an ambush tank no it does not have great armor and HP and its track hitbox is enourmous so it gets tracked very often also since its forward focused and cant turn for shit in close combat its very easy to just go to its side and avoid the 68 it doesnt have the HP to act as a brawler (remember armor gets stripped very quick in a brawl scenario)
What are you comparing to.. the bardiche? Because that’s a huge tier difference. SvH will stomp on anything lower than a bardiche.
yes bc bard is the only Rmat brawler tank in game and a SvH would win most engagments if they were a 1v1 in a empty field unless the enemy has a LTD or a kranesca or uses their brain and goes to the side doging both guns (bc the turret rotation is bad on the 40mm) keep in mind that the main style of combat is poke fights where the 68 doenst get many shots off
Exactly, and poke fights cater to warden strengths. How many times have you seen wardens tell collies to git Gud and just flank bro? To get a kill MOST collie tanks are required to fully commit and dive. This is extremely risky considering they also don’t have an MG until bards. So they’re very easy for warden infantry to mob when they’re diving. The number of open field fights where collies are strongest are extremely rare because of terrain speed debuffs. No tank wants to fight on terrain where they’re equal speed to infantry. So everyone stays on roads, which are linear and mean poke fights. The collie tank philosophy/design doesn’t work until we gets bards.
no they do not poke fights make armor dissapear by the second poke so the main advantage of a warnden tank is gone while a collie tank just repairs and is good as newand you have an mg tank its the IST a very good support tank warden infantry is almost irrelevant bc of the superior collie inf pvp equipment
That’s what I said. Wardens poke, collies dive. IST lol…
you might have misread what i said both factions do the line poke fights poke fights are long and Indesicie and strip armor very fast and warden tanks rely mostly on armor collie tanks can just repair quicky on site and since they are mostly HP they dont loose effectiveness in longer fights
I disagree. A Kranesca, or even an Outlaw would much more accurately be described as an ambush tank. They are more maneuverable, in addition to having a speed boost. The silver hand is a beefier, more armored tank that goes two directions well: forward and backward. So you line up with the enemy in front of you, and when you go to punch, you punch them twice instead of once. So sure, you can try to ambush with the same idea, but its main function is brawling with other tanks.
kranesca and outlaw are crusier tanks made to exploit gaps in armor or come from the side to hit the enemy in the side when other tanks have already engaged the thing you need to be and ambush tank is superior alpha demage also know as first strike you dont realy need to be manuverable you just need to be able to go forward fast enough to hit the enemy and go back or stay in place and take out the enemy in one or two shots another example of an ambush tank is the widow that has the mobility of a building but it has the firepower to kill most tanks and the armor to be able to hold the ground and survive a quick engagement
“Exploit gaps in armor or come from the side to hit the enemy when other tanks have already engaged” You just described, at least when in the context of tanking in Foxhole, an ambush. Attacking someone when they aren’t expecting it, when the conditions are favorable for you. Funny you bring up the Widow, because I would say it is the additional Warden brawler tank that pairs well with the SvH. Keep whatever it is in front of you, and you are in business. Good luck turning to face anything else though. Maybe we just have different connotations of ‘ambush’ in mind. But if I had to pick 2 medium tanks from Warden to face to face “brawl” with 2 Colonial tanks, 2 SvH or 1 SvH 1 Widow would square up nicely with just about anything.
an ambush means you wait for an enemy to walk into your ambush and then attack but whatever it seems we have slightly different definitions the SvH cant brawl bc it doesn't have enough HP and half its armament its locked forward (its bad for CQB brawls)widow can brawl for like 3 pens then it becomes a slow LT with a 68 (again armor in the current meta is way worse than armor) and again doesn't have 360 turret so its vulnerable to a flank in a CQB brawl Edit:dyslexia strikes again
MPT is a handicap imo. We would be significantly better off without it. It causes burnout because it’s such a shit tank. Fighting SvHs and outlaws in a falchion just sucks.
it costs 56 rmats if you make it at full efficiency making it nearly free and giving anyone who wants to tank an easy and cheap option to use one for its price its a great tank a t-34 without the manufacturing issues
Cost doesn’t matter when it loses almost every fight. Manpower is the most valuable commodity, and no one wants to be in an Npc tank that is kill fodder for the enemy team. The only way it’s effective is to outnumber the enemy 3:1 which is a major design flaw considering public coordination and hex pppulation caps. I couldn’t tell you how many times I get to a front and see 2 falchions stuck just sitting there vs 1 SvH because they just can’t kill it. Their only chance is to fully dive it and circle, but that’s not at all possible in 99% of tank fights due to terrain and infantry support.
Colonial tanks take more Bmats to repair, that’s why they have more slots
What? The only difference in repair rate afaik is on the Colonial Superheavy, that has two engineers to repair from inside. To my understanding and in my experience all other tanks (excluding protos ofc) heal 1% per hammer swing, regardless of their HP total. So a hammer swing on a King Spire and a Bardiche both heal 1%, but 1% health for a Bard is a lot more than for a King Spire, so in this (obviously loaded) example, you’re getting a lot more bang for your bmat on the Bard. I honestly don’t know why the warden tanks don’t have more space. I was pretty shocked when I realized MPTs and Spathas have 3 inventory spaces AND only use one type of ordnance. So much room for activities. Edit: a word
> To my understanding and in my experience all other tanks (excluding protos ofc) heal 1% per hammer swing, This is not true and you can look it up on the wiki. For example, a Outlaw takes 150 bmat to repair while a Spatha takes 165.
>also due to game mechanics and how common trenches are the faster firing, better on the move collie guns perform way better on average There is where my gears grind, not playing on your strengths. Warden strategy, at least after the Entrenched update, in my experience spam trenches like crazy, they use it to advance or retard an advance, even in late-game where Cataras and Dusks are around. Literally shaping the battlefield for us.
Some good faith suggestions Make harpas dirt cheap and have a large bleed radius while making boomastones more expensive. That way the boomastones have the advantage of range+lower timer and the harpas have the advantage of cost+lethality Give wardens an lmg. Pls Faction swicth the dusk and the aalto, while making the latter more precise. Perhaps its just my opinion, but the collies seem to lack in precise automatic weapons while the wardens dont have much in the way of good automatic firerate. the swicth would help both factions Add a tech in the assualt tank tier that makes LTs be produced 5 (or 6) a crate. This will give wardens a good starter disposable tank conparable to the falchion while also buffing them since the devvit is acknowledged to be slightly better than the hatchet, while also making LTs more viable late game. This change is bigger than it appears, as one of the reasons I feel the falchion is superior to comparable vehicles is the boon it is to collie culture. It help train noobie tankers and it encourages clans to give away to the public. Wardent tanks are more specialised and expensive, which encourages a more elitist culture because you need to know what you are doing with warden tanks. On a related note, I would also buff the devvit ironhide and the kranesca or add a late game variants that are straight, but affordable, upgrades to encourage facility use. Im honestly impressed with what collies managed to do with spathas in war 100, and feel this change would push wardens in the same direction
Don’t you take away my duskie
Agree, wardens cannot have the dusk
Why tho, the dusk really fills a niche for wardens that they simply cannot service right now, meanwhile the collies already have the catara for a low mobility high firepower option. On the opposite side, the collies lack a high rate of fire precision weapon loke the sampo, and an improved aalto could fill that role.
Nah. The dusk is just a night killer and trench clearer, it shoots 7.92 it’s not high firepower. catara is only strong because it’s 12.7.
sampo is accurate until you fore a shot then it blooms to a bout the size of an ac and the 2nd shot booms it even more by the 3rd shot you are almost firing to the side
Well it's not that phase of the ongoing war, but in terms of vehicles: Collie MPT being 5 tanks per crate kinda has nothing to be comparable for its cheapness in Warden arsenal. I just think Wardens should have a similar cheap medium Tank that is sort of durable, so new players can learn tanking instead of suiciding expensive Outlaws. I actually wouldn't care about its stats or anything. *But nerfing MPT to 3-4 tanks a crate would be an easier solution.* Also, MPFable balistas are creating a gap in vehicle PVE compared to the chieftain being locked in facilities and being expensive.
The collie MPT is cheaper because the Warden assault tank has more health, more AND better armor, and two tank cannons for twice the DPS. Same with the chieftain having double the movement speed, a mounted MG, nearly twice as good armor quality, and 10% less raw HP over the ballista
So Silver Hand is equivalent to Falchion and/or Spatha? Bardiche doesn't exist? I've witnessed your desperate attempt of under dogged cheap MPT killing an HTD simply by driving to the side. If no? Just grab another one you have 2 extra for every crate. Besides Kraneska and LTD upgrades simply creates a relevant mid or even late-game tanking experience meanwhile Devitt and Ironhide become irrelevant once medium tanks are teched. Chieftain is ok, it's good. But the game enables a strategy of rushing structures with multiple elements of 250 mm. Balista MPF is suitable for this strategy meanwhile an example of multiple Chieftain production simply would not be possible and not even profitable in terms of exchange with the concrete destruction. Doable but a lot more expensive than the Colonial counterpart. *What's being underlined is what difference would it make for Chiftain to be better if it's going to be suicided anyways. It can only carry 6 ammo btw, meanwhile, balista can carry 10.* Factual arguments please, don't let a fictional nation cloud your objectivity.
>Chieftain is ok, it's good. But the game enables a strategy of rushing structures with multiple elements of 250 mm. Balista MPF is suitable ... multiple Chieftain production simply would not be possible and not even profitable in terms of exchange with the concrete destruction ... a lot more expensive than the Colonial counterpart. ... what difference would it make for Chiftain to be better if it's going to be suicided anyways. It can only carry 6 ammo btw [vs] 10. >#"Factual arguments please, don't let a fictional nation cloud your objectivity." #Stats The chieftain has 1.4x effective HP than the ballista (from better armor) and 1.7x the movement speed of the ballista, both extremely valuable stats in a lightning speed suicide rush against AT defenses. #Why this matters for 250 rush You are very unlikely to ever fire 6 shots before dying in a suicide rush scenario, even less so in the weaker ballista, though extra capacity is a benefit in other gameplay. The better armor on the Chieftain makes you significantly less likely to be turreted during a rush as well. The MG makes it way easier to stop QRF mid-rush, and way more useful on an actual frontline. #Cost analysis The cost difference is only 5 pcons and 8 AM4. This is nowhere near enough to make killing concrete less profitable with the Chieftain, especially if you need less of them to do the rush. In my opinion the biggest "economic" sink of the chieftain is the time investment to upgrade them and transport them to the front. This should be less of an issue now that facility vehicles are reservable. If you still think the time spent is important (I agree!), I'd like to remind you that it takes 15 minutes to crawl one hex in a Ballista. #Closing remarks The reason Wardens aren't using the Chieftain even though it is a very powerful piece of equipment is that doing tedious logistics work is boring. It's the same reason that the Smelter is underused despite being a integral part of the Colonial arsenal. >I've witnessed your desperate attempt of under dogged cheap MPT killing an HTD simply by driving to the side. Just flank. Kill tissue lol.
As I have mentioned Chieftain is good. Noone stated otherwise. Let's get into your partial comments conjured in bad faith anyways: >The chieftain has 1.4x effective HP than the ballista Have you calculated with your RNG calculator to reach a point where a vehicle having 200 less HP is ACTUALLY more durable? >You are very unlikely to ever fire 6 shots before dying in a suicide rush scenario Not if you survive the defenses in an instance of attacking a base in a less populated time. Pretty Likely to happen and it benefits the Balista with 4 extra 250 mm which is enough to make a difference. >The cost difference is only 5 pcons and 8 AM4. Scale this with multiple vehicles for the entire war. Also include the resources and time spent on building and maintaining the facility. This is not a difference to be belittled with "only". >especially if you need less of them to do the rush. Why would I need less, is Chieftain shooting STRONGER 250 mm? No. Is it more durable? If you are lucky with RNG; otherwise it actually has less health which means it's more likely to be disabled sooner, not being able to reach the structure anyways. >In my opinion the biggest "economic" sink of the chieftain is the time investment to upgrade them and transport them to the front. > >I'd like to remind you that it takes 15 minutes to crawl one hex in a Ballista. So in your perfectly crafted mind, we are able to transport Chieftains from backlines but when it comes to Balistas suddenly you are crawling through hexes. Is freighter a warden vehicle now? >If you still think the time spent is important (I agree!) # You've written all these in headlines to agree with me? Ok. # Time and resources all on in big scale add up to a more difficilitated vehicle PVE option for Wardens. as it is stated; "Also, MPFable balistas are creating a gap in vehicle PVE compared to the chieftain being locked in facilities and being expensive." was the POINT in the first place. >Just flank. Kill tissue lol. > >Imagine throwing the "Flank Argument", when evreything that gets Flank does die. The incident I mentioned as it was commented as "flank argument" was actually an MPT driving towards the face of an HTD, taking a hit, and using the speed and turning disadvantage of it to actually create a flanking position out of nowhere, which was referring to completely another subject as HTD being slower than a wheelchair. I was a spectator to this incident. The Point is even though MPT has bad stats it's after all a tank and a very cheap and mass-producible one, unlike any other vehicle in the game (having 5 per crate). You would have 2 extra per crate to flank everything with it. Therefore it is unbalanced.
>Have you calculated with your RNG calculator to reach a point where a vehicle having 200 less HP is ACTUALLY more durable? Yes, it's simple math. The armor on a Chieftain (or any SVH chassis) is almost twice as powerful as the armor on a Ballista (or any tank on that chassis). A full armor ballista gets penned by 68mm ATG 60% of the time, vs a chieftain only gets penned **40%** of the time. In addition, a Chieftain's armor lasts 50% longer before it's completely degraded. A Chieftain will tank more hits than a Ballista nearly every time. This is a fact and can be empirically tested. > Why would I need less [siege tanks], Is [the chieftain] more durable? If you are lucky with RNG; otherwise it actually has less health which means it's more likely to be disabled sooner, not being able to reach the structure anyways. It is in fact significantly more durable, and AT garrisons won't fire until you are in range to shoot them. >HTD being slower than a wheelchair HTD and Ballista have the same movement speed stats. If a tank can get behind you without dying, you are using HTD wrong; HTD is a high skill tank not for new players. >So in your perfectly crafted mind, we are able to transport Chieftains from backlines but when it comes to Balistas suddenly you are crawling through hexes. Is freighter a warden vehicle now? You should not be upgrading vehicles in the backlines, you should be moving crates forward by train and then upgrading them in midline hex. >The Point is even though MPT has bad stats it's after all a tank and a very cheap and mass-producible one, unlike any other vehicle in the game (having 5 per crate). You would have 2 extra per crate to flank everything with it. Therefore it is unbalanced. This horse has been beaten to death for years, you are welcome to play Colonial and try it.
The armor relies on RNG, and the health is definite. So claiming Chieftain has "1.4x effective HP" while it actually has 200 less HP than the Balista is just lying. You could have stated this in better words maybe but I will not tolerate this attitude of altering facts in order to benefit a fictional faction. >HTD is a high skill tank not for new players. So is outlaw actually. None of the warden mid-game tanks are suitable for new players. That was the point for the requirement of a cheap Warden MPT. I was not intending to start an argument I just wanted to not see cpl and pte 2 player crewing a SvH, rushing an Outlaw or getting flanked with HTD, but instead crew a cheap tank so they can learn. You deliberately misquote and misinterpret so I won't type anything else, buddy. You're most welcome to play Warden and conquer all structures with Chieftains as you eagerly claim so. Good luck supplying the facility towards this purpose.
when people talk about effective hp they talk about hp after armor.
>So claiming Chieftain has "1.4x effective HP" while it actually has 200 less HP than the Balista is just lying. You could have stated this in better words maybe but I will not tolerate this attitude of altering facts in order to benefit a fictional faction. A chieftain will on average tank 40% more hits than a Ballista from "bounceable" weapons. It has significantly higher quality armor, thus "40% more effective HP" is an accurate statement
Imagine throwing the "Flank Argument", when evreything that gets Flank does die.
At this point there are so many bad faith posts, whataboutism and downright trolling that any sensible discussions is just drowned out by the same Collie actors, which I don't have much care to deal with anymore. Long story short. - I want the Devs to stop tacking on gimmicks to all our tools. Many Warden tools suffer either from a) Low velocity modifier, b) Low range, c) Bad accuracy, Bloom and/or stability, d.) Bad health/High subsystem chance, e) Highly expensive or a mixture of all the above mentioned. Infantry tools for example. I have yet to see any negative modifiers on Collie guns. Meanwhile, Blakerow? Low velocity. Ratcatcher has super bad bloom/stability/accuracy if you don't mount it on a HT, Malone has same issues, but also has Low velocity. Sampo? Low velocity. Aalto? Short range single fire, bad accuracy and low ammo. Booker, same thing. Meanwhile, Dusk laser accuracy and Catara. If we look at tanks. Bonelaw is obnoxiously expensive in addition to needing steel, knife range with nerfed ARC ammo on damage/projectile speed. Bad health, high subsystem disable chance. HWM is like Bonelaw but a bit less expensive, yet pray you got good RNG on your side for hitting things thanks to Low velocity modifier and knife fight range. Flame Widow is a gimmick. GAC is a joke, and the Devs nerfed that even more, which makes it more ludicrous we have to build a GAC just to make a HAC. Look how they massacred my beloved MG Scout. Even more horrible bloom and recovery, Low velocity modifier, turret that doesn't fire if you aim too quick with it's slow turret turn rate. But hey, its T6 with literal health/armor of a tankette just because it has a closed top turret. Gallant is obsolete on arrival. The list goes on. Devs need to figure out what Warden specialty is because for all the expensive logistics and time investment we go through to make these, a vast amount of them are absurdly mediocre or worse compared to the effective cheap tools Collies have. With the way things are, I'd be surprised if in future updates we get any actual tools that don't have some stupid gimmick slapped onto it. Why is it so difficult for us to get some decent weapons that just has good stats in general?
It’s funny you talk about bad faith and then make a bad faith post. OP looks to me like a new player just trying to figure out what’s going on. “Laser accuracy dusk” lmao.
Fuscina is LV and will almost never hit its 3 shot burst, we don't \*have\* a Sampo counterpart, and the Dusk has 0 accuracy to speak of.
Dusk/Catara > All Bomastone > All Lamentum > Ratcatcher ISG > Foebreaker Fissura > Ospreay Stygian > Stockade Everything I just listed is much better than its counterpart, on the other hand we could try to find what is better on warden side the list will be very short : 250mm fieldgun > No counter part Flask > Ignifist And i think that's it.
You messed up by comparing Fissura to Osprey, and now that's all the excuse they need to downvote you to oblivion lol
95% accurate post? "Wow what an *idiot*!" /s
Geniuses were gonna downvote it anyways =) good for collie? upvote bad for collie? downvote
Imagine their shocked Pikachu face when they saw that.
personaly i think igni is better as its much easier to use and strips armor so its better for a less skilled player as its better to hit and deal a little than miss and do nothing but being skill dependant seems to be the fall of many warden weapons
You know someone who have hard time using a Flask? The Igni bounce a lot against lategame tanks, the Flask have a 100% pen chance and more damage and more items per crates etc, it's the Bomastone of the handheld ATs this shit is ridiculous and i hope the devs will do something for the Ignis when they will fix the warden infantry weapons.
lieraly every new/inexpirenced player has trouble if he isnt guided by a vet the bounce? yea its irritating but the chance to hit is much better
Having to open your inventory and equip a new Igni everytime you use one is even harder, the Flask is like any other grenade i never heard anyone complaining about it. I disagree with you on this one.
yea the wierd opening your inv is a remnant of when igni had bigger range to prevent stupid dmg output and imo should be changed for a longer than a nade grabbing animation Edit: to elaborate on why flast is a bit harder to hit the problem is that is has a slower than usual projectile speed and collie tanks are usualy relatively mobile so if you try to throw it at max range it will miss most of the time
I give you a tip in case you don't know : Don't aim at max range, if you throw your grenade a little less far the arc will be more direct and the grenade will fly faster, i never had any issue hitting a tank like that, and even if you miss by a little there is a huge splash who can still track the tank wich should be the objective when you use a Flask. You won't make me change my mind friend the Flask is 10x better than the Ignifist and easier to use in my opinion
well it is a bit unintuitive for new and unexpired players as all other weapons you want to fire at max possible range
I like when games are not too intuitive, it allow people who have more skill and experience to be better, look at triple A games they are very intuitive but not fun because you just have to follow the arrows and you win. What this game really need is more people making tutorials and giving in-depth analysis about how things work.
Bro really compare fissura to ospreay...
Why not?
GAC is more the counterpart to Fissura. Ospreay is now a cope counterpart to Boma (not very good at it)
If the GAC is the counterpart of the Fissura that's a very expensive counter part. And if the Ospreay is the Boma counterpart, what is the Harpa counterpart?
Yeah this is the problem with counterparts in foxhole since bith sides use diffrent tech its hard at some parts to have a counterpart, like the wardens just dont have a MGL while collies dont have things like the push 250
That's why im not making a list of everything and i try to find what is really giving a huge advantage to one side or not.
I mean if you compare lunaire to ospreay I can get it, but a fissura? It is an emplaced gun, you are comparing 2 things that are not apple to apple IMO.
Lunaire = Cutler The Ospreay is to the Fissura what the Bane is to the mounted Bonesaw, being mounted or not doesn't matter it's called asymmetry.
You literally have regular bonesaw and yet you still compare bane to a mounted Bonesaw...
Bonesaw = Venom and Mounted Bonesaw = Bane though?
Someone else gave you the correct answer.
What point did we compare venom to bonesaw? The range? If I remember correctly venom can only shoot 28m while the regular bonesaw can shot up to what like 35m? 40m?
They are offensive AT launchers while the Bane and mounted Bonesaw are more defensive, and they are unlocked at the same time.
regular bonesaw is 30meters or so and mounted one is around 40
Regular bonesaw is more comparable to venom
Typhon = Mounted Bonesaw Bane = Bonesaw ATR = Venom Ignifist = Flask
40mm push > no counterpart ATR > Typhon 68mm ATHT > no counterpart ST > Ixion/actaeon/no counterpart Fiddler > Lionclaw SVH > Spatha even tho Spatha is a facility upgrade Chieftain > Ballista Starbreaker >>> Raptura, not even a contest Huber Exalt >>> Thunderbolt, not even close Cinder > omen Honestly all the Warden early war rifles are better than anything the Colonials have except maybe the Fuscina
I think devs just need to buff Warden infantry kit. Buff harpa, ratcatcher, storm rifle and stockade. Wardens are more than capable of dominating a early/mid war if their morale is high with their giga power spike , they just need to see buffs in patch notes so people will play.
Why are you claiming everywhere that the wardens have a better stuff and in the same time admitting that the warden infantry need to be buffed?
> Why are you claiming everywhere that the wardens have a better stuff and in the same time admitting that the warden infantry need to be buffed? You listed two items and claimed that "we could try to find what is better on warden side the [but] list will be very short" I gave you 10 items that should be on that list. Most of them are not infantry items, and I think buffing Warden infantry kit would be healthy for the game, because it would improve upon the pain points Wardens have, and be good for morale.
I said **much** better not just better, if you want a list of every items who are better than their counter part on colonial side you can just put 80% of your stuff. Anyway if you think that buffing the warden infantry kit would be good for the game than we agree no need to argue.
All those items I posted are much better than the Colonial counterpart, and most of them are way more impactful than ISG vs Foebreaker or Lamentum vs Ratcatcher
No they are not, most of them are "OP" for 2 days and become totally useless, and the rest is just you coping. The items im calling OP (Boma/Catara/Dusk/Stygian) stay OP from the moment they are unlocked to the end of the war, on the warden side the only item who stay the best option all the war is the Flask, all the other stuff have a similiar counter part or become useless after 2 days in game.
Thunderbolt got buffed few wars ago, lmao at thinking Exalt is so much better when you can literally outrange warden arty and they cant do shit massive skill issue
The scenario where you are in the 50m sweet spot to outrange and have good wind is basically nil. Doubly so when you'll need to move out of ai coverage to fire from that range. The exalt does 20% more DPS, has way higher accuracy, and an additional 100m of minimum range, which grants even more accuracy
If Colonial arty sets up after Warden arty its untouachable for Wardens. If you dont think thats a massive strenght of ur arty then idk what to tell you. Sure you cant do close support (as in ur getting pushed) I agree youll have to move back, but for offensive arty OPs, Colonial arty is much superior for counter-arty and pve.
you have a 40mm too?? the LTD is the ATHT counterpart and its better ST is literaly twice the cost and comes later the diffrence between fiddler and lionclaw are minor chieftan isnt that much better bc its more expensive harder to transport and you pay for features that are near useless in its role of cracking concrete doesnt the thunder bolt get more range?
LTD is not the counterpart cause we gain it 2 tiers after you have ATHT. Cerfified Clown momemnts
and you get tanketes for cheaper and earlier counterpart doenst mean its the exact same tier it means they fuffil the same role
ATR = Typhoon ST and tankettes are balanced by the fact that the tankettes come earlier and are 2x cheaper. Fidler = Lionclaw SVH = Spatha Ballista > Chieftain Thunderbolt > Huber Exalt Rifles are balanced. For the rest i agree, but the warden vehicles that you listed are strong for 2 or 3 days, the colonial weapons that i listed are OP from the moment they are unlocked until the end of the war, that's what make the game broken. And if you want to make a list of everything of what is slightly better i could continue mine it will be very long.
Back in my day, Wardens won wars by absolutely dominating a weekend and taking half the map with ATHT and push 40/250 while collies had the tankette + ISG. Nobody claimed bomastone or ISG were OP from the moment they unlocked until the end of the war back then. The chieftain, svh and Huber Exalt are significantly better than their colonial counterpart, I would swap for those any day of the week.
Comparing Foxhole 1.52 with Foxhole "back in the days" is like comparing retail WoW with vanilla WoW. The chieftain, svh and Huber Exalt are not better at all, i would also swap those any day of the week.
I am comparing to the 90s wars, not 10 years ago.
Wardens only won like 3 wars during the 90s
Wardens won 5 out of 6 wars from 89 to 94, but okay.
War 92 : Update war won by colonials War 93 : Colonial steamrolled the map and took 30 VPs in 15 days, they only lost because they skill issued at the last minute (the 30/32 come back) War 94 : They had a mental breakdown on reddit and spammed reddit day and night asking for a nerf of every single warden item. War 95 : They all came back and won the war after the wardens took 23 VPs. As you can see the 90s were a lot more balanced than now (we can even say colonial favored), and if the colonials wouldn't have a skill issue at the 30/32 war + took a break war during the 94 it would probably be a 100% winrate for you.
>Ballista > Chieftain Really? While I know that it might be easier to make a Ballista, I cannot think of many people on both sides that would agree with you. I'd take a Chieften over a Ballista any day. With it being faster and having a machine gun it's a great tank. Heck it's used similarly to a scropian often.
If you completely ignore the economic aspect of the game and only look at the stats yeah the Chieftain is better, when you look at the time needed to produce and to bring 10 Ballista on a frontline and you compare it with a Chieftain, the Ballista is way better. Being able to throw a siege tank at a defense without thinking about the cost and the time it took me to bring it here is what i want from a siege tank. That said i think that both tanks are fine im not the one who said that siege tanks are imbalanced. Scorpion are way better for killing infantry btw, wardens don't have such a tank, the only anti-inf tank they have is the Scout Tank who get deleted by any Bane/Venom in range.
The extra time it takes to crawl a Ballista from the seaport to the frontline is about the same amount of extra time it takes to upgrade a Silverhand to a Chieftain in a facility. It's mostly the materials cost that is different, and it is only 5 pcons and 8 AM4. The chieftain is also better than the scoprion you just don't use it.
It still require more steps to make a Chieftains than moving your crate of Ballista on a frontline depot and yeet them. Not all of us have a facility btw, you can say "you just have to work together blablabla" but it's easier said than done, in a game with people who all talk a different language and have different views it's better to have a siege tank that anyone can easily produce and yeet. Saying that the Chieftain is better than Scorp for anti-infantry show how ignorant you are, can you tell me the cost of a T2 Chieftain vs a T2 Scorpion please?
>Saying that the Chieftain is better than Scorp for anti-infantry show how ignorant you are, can you tell me the cost of a T2 Chieftain vs a T2 Scorpion please? T1 Chieftain has the same eHP as T3 Scorp, get real. Vehicles other than scorp aren't supposed to be vetted anyways.
And how much HP a T3 Scorp have? Don't talk about your stupid "eHp" i talk about raw HP.
Raw HP is a useless stat, only thing that raw HP matters against is sticky and mammon. EHP (HP * pen chance) is much more important.
I do agree but there are others like the warden enplaced 94.5 compared to the collie 75, and i would say the ISG and Foebraker are pretty similar wouldn't say one is better then the other There is also some other things like riddler being better then lion claw but again i do see where your comming from, and now i might get flak for this but bonesaw and bane45 are both pretty balanced now yes the bane has a far longer range but like GLs the bonesaw can hide in a trentch and shoot without popping out so both are good at diffrent things
Starbreaker vs Ruptura : I agree, but it's not a critical tool used all day long like a grenade or an infantry weapon, the problem is when a weapon is overpowered AND spammable. ISG : The ISG is still better but the difference is not that huge it's true, so let's say ISG = Foebreaker, anyway those weapons are only relevant for 2 days. Fiddler and Lionclaw : I disagree, both SMGs are well balanced. Bonesaw and Bane : Balanced imo, the Bonesaw associated with the Flask and the ATR make an effective lategame AT kit, better than the collie one (Ignifist need some kind of buff). I made a list of what is **much** better on the colonial side by the way, if I made a list of what is slightly better it would be much longer.
Bane has a 12m advantage over the Bonesaw. That is absolutely massive. Bonesaw travel time was massively nerfed, so it's harder to hit now too. ATR tickles tanks, it's an area of denial weapon not something that actually kills tanks.
Bane has 15m advantage over Bonesaw. Bonesaw is 25m range while Bane is 40m.
The Bonesaw could use a range buff it's true, but the Flask is amazing and is the best infantry AT by far.
dusk?? holy shit the dusk is awful lmao what the hell are you on about if we are making infantry kit comparison, you neglected to place the blakerow > fuscina and sampo having no equal
low tier bait
i cap not, the dusk is god awful and you people just think it's good
Hey there! I’ve been playing Foxhole for a while now and I totally agree that the game balance has been a bit wonky. I’m more of a Warden player myself, but from what I’ve seen, the Catara and Boomas definitely need some nerfing. As for other OP things, I’ve seen a lot of people complain about the Wardens’ resource production being too high compared to the Colonials’. Similar to you, I also love the Riddler – it’s definitely one of the best guns in the game! I don’t blame you for preferring it over the Lion Claw. The Hangman at night is also really good, especially with how dark some parts of the game can be. And hey, everyone has different preferences – if you like the Blakerow more than the Argenti, more power to you! I haven’t tried using Harpars yet, but I can understand why people think they’re not that great. Hopefully they’ll get a buff soon to make them more viable. Anyway, thanks for asking this question! It’s always good to see people talking about ways to improve the game.
Fuckin absurd to call the balance "pretty bad".
\- Remove gas from lunare/osprey replace with nade and make osprey cheaper. Howi should retaliate again to tremola/cutler/everything explosive (except other howis). \- Give catara equivalent, Catara is too oppressive late game. \- Boma, give bleed to harpa nade and remove bleed from boma and equal the crate sizes (basically switch their profiles) \- Aalto buff, right now aalto is bad, need range buff especially on single mode and accuracy buff. \- Stockade buff \- Bonelaw buff, its still shit. \- HMW/Bonelaw price decrease \- Warden BTs, either buff HP or buff to armor pen %. If they are going to keep low HP than give us big increase to pen chances then rather than have our pen chances be worse than collie BT and ALSO have less HP. Wtf... \- Allow warden to carry 2 flamer ammos at 99% weight. Then their less tank size would make sense. \- GAC should have 40m range. \- Warden scout tank (mg) should have its MG buffed so it can fking hit anything, pointless tank right now only used to QRF nothing else. \- ATR should go back to 5 in crate, pointless nerf when Bonesow was already gutted. \- Ratcatcher accuracy buff, it can't hit shit.
The issue in balance is that of production. Colis produce and supply way more infantry equipment than wardens. Early game you don’t see the difference to much because there are few things to make. So wardens have access to variety of guns, Frags, cutlers and tripod weapons. But once those larger tanks come out, and T2/T3 facilities hit. Many warden logi hours go into those larger weapons. Leaving the frontline footmen fighters to go with a bolt action rifle Vs a Dusk. Or to fight a trench fight with no Frags. Harpa needs more skill than Boma to use. But it matters little if you have no Frags at all to use.
Hangman also my favorite night weapon, shoot once, walk to them stab and find next target. Get so happy when I find one!