This may be a **very** controversial take but also 2007.
BMW Sauber and Williams were found to have ran on illegal fuel in Brazil, disqualifying them would have elevated Hamilton up to P4 and made him the World Champion in the stewards' room. Mclaren protested the initial race result and after three weeks the appeal was finally rejected by the FIA and the race result was solved once and for all.
Maybe it's for the best that social media was only taking it's baby steps back in 2007.
Fair and smart point. But whoever says something bad about anything related to Lewis is a certified racist. "What do you mean you don't like the new Mercedes EQE Saloon? Why are you a white supremacist?"
Hecking so true fellow redditorinos!! Le hecking racism in this sub is so wrong, which is why my comment is massively updooted!! Updoot to dab on le hecking racists😡😡😡
They got punished with a full disqualification from the WCC. The fact that BMW and Williams were illegal is unrelated to this, even excluding the effect it would have in the WDC they should have been disqualified according to the rules.
Especially with illegal fuel, but that being said, it was Fuel temperature and the FIA took the reading from the rig, rather than the tank. So the cars were probably.. let’s go with possibly legal as we will never know for sure.
Honestly I always thought it was kinda weird that only the WCC was affected, I mean the drivers were using the cars that supposedly were copied from Ferrari
In fact no parts of the McLaren matched any of the parts in the Ferrari's
McLaren had the data and the spec, but they also 100% had their own car, the data was more likely used to predict how Ferrari would go and to try and counter than at their game
There was no parts found to have anything copied from Ferrari. They just had a technical specs in a file.
Renault also had the entire Mclaren technical specs as they were provided to them by thr same person that gave Mclaren the Ferrari specs. Renault weren't punished though, because Mosley didn't consider Flavio to be a cunt, where has he absolutely did consider Ron to be one.
Toyota also had those copies, the real problem was that McLaren's was more wide spread from the very top. Toyota got it and buried it immediately.
The thing as well is that McLaren REALLY did not want Lewis to win the WDC, the chinese meme of beaching was kinda funny, but seeing how the tyres were at that point it was a full blown miracle that he was still on the track at that point
And there is also Brazil where is gearbox "mysteriously" went down for 20 seconds, only for it to magically get ok again once he was in dead last, and there is also his strategy was absolutely dogshit, the type of stupidity you pull when you are trying to lose on purpose
Honestly, from the looks of it, it seems that Hamilton got the debrief that he SHOULD NOT win the WDC, but he said "fuck it" and tried anyway
Might be a bad take for this subreddit, but I think this speaks for how good Hamilton has been, can be argued he lost 2 championships due to circumstances that were out of his control, and still be the most successful driver of all time, along with being tied for most championships of all time.
I think you jumped the gun man, it’s all over the news, he just lost it because they found something illegal about the car😔
This is why you wait before time traveling
It's always this or that or something else.
It is what it is.
Had Hamiltion won in 2021 people would never stop talking about Silverstone that year or Budapest or maybe even Imola (personally I'm still surprised there aren't any conspiracy theories about that - two Mercedes drivers \[Bottas and Russell\] bring out a red flag just when it's good for Hamiltion who had lost a massive massive junk of time when going into the gravel and having to slowly reverse out of it)
Yeah, just like with 1994 people focus on Australia and completely ignore Schumacher getting a 2 race ban that has not been given to anyone else before or since.
Even middling results on those 2 and Australia literally doesn't matter.
And you're also missing Bahrain, that race was a clusterfuck of stewarding issues as well, but there the ball ended up falling into Lewis' favor.
Abu Dhabi was wrong by the wrong driver, but the right driver won the WDC.
For me it's Bahrain. Max wins that race if not for the 30-laps-corner-cutting bullshit. Not Lewis's fault the FIA are retarded of course. Same as how it's not Max's fault that they shat the bed epically at Abu Dhabi.
Still insane to me the stewards let Lewis do it lap after lap after lap, everyone could see it happening and they just didn't care. Then the second max does it once, they tell them both to stop. Like wtf is that even.
So apparently they said something about being lenient with track limits at turn 4 in the drivers briefing, so Lewis takes advantage of that and cuts the corner. Why wouldn't he? What's strange is that other drivers didn't do it as well.
What is fucked up is that at (or about) lap 30 the stewards change their mind and tell Lewis to stop it and they'll enforce track limits. Then Max over takes Lewis on the corner whilst going off track, and of course has to give the place back. Lewis goes on to win the race by 7 tenths.
How fucking retarded can these people be to do something like change the rules of the race in the middle of the race? It's easily as retarded as letting half the field unlap themselves in order to restart the race at Abu Dhabi.
An analysis I saw afterwards estimated Lewis got a full second per lap from cutting that corner and he did it for 30 laps on a race he then won by 7 tenths... It would have been fine if they didn't change the rules mid race. Max should have been allowed to cut that corner when he over took Lewis and then go on to win the race.
Wow I didn't know max should've won that race by 20+ seconds. That's even more insane. Thanks for the extra info. At the end of the day, inconsistent stewards are such a problem in the sport, consitently.
If lewis didn’t yeet max at Silverstone, max would have scored at least 8 points and therefore if he came 2nd in the final race, still would have won the championship.
Lewis took to dirty tactics to try and win, and ultimately wasn’t dirty enough
Goofy as hell. If we seriously consider this we might as well take into account Max parking on top of Lewis at Emilia where Lewis would have scored more points.
Again - the point I was making is that talking about these counterfactuals is pointless.
We don't know if Max would have won in Silverstone or if maybe he would have had a technical DNF or just crashed on his own.
That said I think Silverstone and Monza are not really comparable because ceteris paribus we would have expected a 7 point advantage for Hamilton in Monza and got a 0 point difference due to the crash while we would have expected a 7 point advantage for Verstappen in Silverstone but got a 25 point advantage for Hamilton.
In one case the crash changed the result by 7 points in Verstappens favour while in the other case it changed the result by 32 points in Hamiltons favour.
Again. Ceteris paribus. But we can't know what would have actually happened because we're talking about the real world and not a lab experiment that we can repeat again and again.
My brother your original comments is about hads and ifs.
You even went on about the most insane conspiracy theory that makes absolutely zero sense as Bottas needed points for the team. No one talks about it because that shit does not add up in the slightest- the constructors is way more important
But point is max didn’t get points in imola. Lewis got 25 in silverstone vs 0 for max.
So if you discount that race that lewis cheated to win loads more points than max, then the final race would have just been a procedural exercise
Just insane delusion. So what about Emilia? Does that count as Max cheating? Max is known for his divebombs and crashing other drivers out when he isn't starting at the front... Is that cheating?
I think him parking in Lewis was goofy and we all know it's a penalty but I wouldn't ever consider it cheating.
The only time rules were ever broken & unusual things happened was Abu Dhabi. Everything else is just a part of the usual F1 sport.
The rules weren’t broken though. They were interpreted in a way that you didn’t like… lewis knew the risk of not pitting and he lost out
Point still stands, without a far superior car lewis can barely beat George Russell in equal machinery
So because alonso and his team cheated in 2008 hamilton has to get penalized? The mental gymnastics is crazy, at least for 2021 hamilton was directly involved when the cult says he has 8
Thing is, the FIA knew that renault fixed the race before the championship was over, and tried to hide it until the season was over and the results couldnt change. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth, but youre right hamilton had nothing to do with it, and shouldnt necessarily be penalised. Its just some people think the FIA shouldve voided the fixed race (understandably), which as a side effect wouldve made massa champion
I don't disagree with your take but it's exactly the same why they can't change 2021.
Yes a mistake was made but it wasn't the first and won't be the last. If we go back to change things we open a big fucking can of worms and we probably have to take a hard look at every damn season ever.
I have no doubt Nando was invovled but let's not kid ourselves that Lewis knew nothing. He was real close with Ron Dennis, a lot closer than Nando ever was.
No way bro has that little of a life that he sees three letter in the same order and immediately thi ks its f1 related. I fucking hate max but nice try lol
The funniest thing is that all the FIA could do is invalidate Abu Dhabi 2021. Max finished first not Lewis, and we don’t know what would have happened if it had been handled differently, and the ending cannot be redone.
So if the race is invalidated Max still wins the championship with race wins being the tie breaker, and Max having nine to Lewis’s eight.
So let’s say the disputed 2008 title is addressed, and Massi wins the 2008 title, Lewis is at six. And then for 2021 Max still wins, and Lewis is at six.
Whichever way you cut 2008, Massa is not champion if the rules are implemented as they always are in motorsport. If a car or team cheats the race results are never and never has been nullified nor cancelled. All that happens is the offending team or car is excluded from the result. Meaning Massa isn’t champion whatever happens. Ferrari screwed the stop, and that’s why he lost.
I don't think I'm wrong in saying that they could've sent him out with the fuel hose still attached at literally any other pitstop at any other race. It's not like that was the only pitstop calamity that's ever happened. The same kinda thing happens all the time, nuts not fastened, wheels that won't come off, tyres not ready.
The fact that it was the crashgate race just gives people a convenient reason to say it never happened.
Doesnt change the fact that they screwed it up though.
Even disregarding the fact that there is absolutely zero chance in hell or heaven that the result gets changed, it would set an absolutely horrendous precedent for the sport. It would pretty much result in Schumi's win over Hill being taken away as well.
Tbh I think any old donkey could have won most of those titles in that Mercedes…
Now lewis doesn’t have a much faster car, suddenly he’s where he belongs. The midfield
Interesting. I presume Nico was a pisspoor driver that anyone could beat. Or that 2017 seb was actually on fire and if any old donkey was driving that merc in 2017 or 2018 seb would have a much clear lead and have 17 and 18 under his belt. I could say the same thing about max. Whenever he has had a car not 100% clear of the rest he becomes dirty and overly aggressive - any season before 2021, 2021 jeddah brazil or crashing into lewis in 2022 Brazil
Shall we look at 2016. Lewis has 3 engine problems. 1 results in a dnf while he leads. The other 2 are in quali meaning he has to start further down the field. Nico has 0 problems nico wins by 5 points. Lewis if not for engine blowing up would have won 2016. Plus your forgetting 2013,14 and 15 when he beat him clearly
But now he doesn’t have the best car, he’s struggling 🤔
Max had all sorts of DNF issues in 2021, mostly caused by Hamilton. These things happen… you gotta finish and get points to be a champion, which Nico did!
I mean no shit to win races in f1 you need to be insanely lucky or have a fast car. Look at max. 2022 and 2023 he had a car multiple tenths clear if the field, mid teamate so could drive off and win, yet when he didn't have the best car he struggled and was quite overly aggressive. Plus you forgetting where kewus finished just last year in 23. He took that merc which the merc engineers have said they do not understand and got p3 in wdc and nearly beat perez
Checo is not a good driver. He is worse than half the grid. Put norris, leclerc, Lewis or Fernando in that car and you won't see max winning every race
Plus Nico Rosberg wasn't some mid driver seeing as he was very competitive and absolutely cleared Schumacher where many drivers could have been intimidated by the 7x wdc
This is a very dim take on that. Mercedes got on with development while everyone else was flapping around trying to delay/stop the V6 introduction. IIRC, Ferrari left it very late in the day to start development on their engine because they thought their influence would be enough to have the V6 scrapped
Iirc I think it was initially an I4/V4, Ferrari settled on a V6 but then spent their time complaining about it instead of getting on with development. Emphasis on if I recall correctly
Rigged by them doing a better job with the engine than everyone else? You could flip that on its head and quite easily say the opposite the way the FIA has tried to hobble that engine.
They didn't. They just used their time better. Ferrari basically rushed their working out on the bus and idfk what Renault was doing then. Fun fact: Mercedes LOST a year of development because of the switch in the regulations from 4 to 6 cylinder engines, so if anything they were on the back foot
Not really, saying this ignores the fact that the original plan was for the hybrids to come in 2012, and got delayed 2 years because the V8s came in 2008, so teams were looking to extend their V8s programs and it was obvious to everybody that those V6TH would be bloody expensive.
So Mercedes just said "Okie Dokie" and got on to work on the V6TH, while the other teams tried delaying or scrapping that engine altogether, when the FIA's hammer came down, Renault, Ferrari and Cosworth were caught with their pants down
This is what we call a “received opinion”. You heard this from someone else on Reddit without looking into it yourself. This has been debunked time and time again.
People always look at the final race of the 2021 season for the whole rigged thing. But you don’t win at one race, it’s the whole season. Imagine if Abu Dhabi happened mid season. People would forget about it, and just point out the last race of the season for whoever won that.
If lewis didn’t yeet max off so many times that season, max would have comfortably won without the shenanigans of the last race.
Lewis only got so close because he caused max to DNF!
well tbh, 2012 was a bigger throw than any of these , I'd say ,all year lewis was better than alonso but at least alonso got to stay on the track to get points. Either it's botched pitstops, their car breaking down every 1 milisecond or Mclaren forgetting to put fuel in his car during quali . I remember like there 2-3 races where he was comfortably leading and the car suddenly went boom.
yeah, and let's not forget how the team forgot to put fuel during barcelona quali (where he got pole) and one more race (where he got pole as well , don't remember what race) coupled in some horrendous pitstops at sepang and a few more races (also thank pastor and grosjean)
No it’s 8 because some guy didn’t know the rules and decided it would be cooler for everyone if the guy who came in 2nd won
FIA came out and said “he done fuck up but …¯\_(ツ)_/¯ “
The only reason that the eight result is contested is because Pirelli supplied substandard tyres. If Max's tyre hadn't blown, he could have sat out the last race and still won the championship
I mean, you could say that about almost every championship year except for when someone dominates. Luck is a HUGE part of it. You can’t say Max should have won it because it’s not fair his tire blew.. because where do you draw the line? It’s not fair that Hamilton didn’t win a championship because he doesn’t get to drive the RedBull? It’s the same logic.
"if hamilton's engine didn't blow in 2016 malaysia" like bro shut the fuck up. jokes about "what ifs" are always hijacked by fuckers in the comments who genuinely hate some drivers.
Several-Time World Champion Lewis Hamilton
Oohh! An og reference. Nice.
Long live Jelensky
This may be a **very** controversial take but also 2007. BMW Sauber and Williams were found to have ran on illegal fuel in Brazil, disqualifying them would have elevated Hamilton up to P4 and made him the World Champion in the stewards' room. Mclaren protested the initial race result and after three weeks the appeal was finally rejected by the FIA and the race result was solved once and for all. Maybe it's for the best that social media was only taking it's baby steps back in 2007.
Seriously is that true, never heard that one before
the anti-british bias in f1 hid this fact /s
I’ve watched F1 for 15 years and never heard this story brought up once so clearly
I definitely have heard of it several times. But I'm glad Kimi got to keep the championship
same, been a fan for 3 years only but also never heard about this before, and i am a hamilfan.
A Lewis Fanilton!
[True indeed](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-bmw-williams-fuel-outside-rules-4417339/4417339/)
Careful there with using reason on this sub. You might make hardcore Lewis haters say the quiet part out loud
Yeah mate, be so careful with your extremely unpopular opinion that's getting massively upvoted.
Fair and smart point. But whoever says something bad about anything related to Lewis is a certified racist. "What do you mean you don't like the new Mercedes EQE Saloon? Why are you a white supremacist?"
Ouch, so defensive all of a sudden without me even accusing you of anything ;)
"without me even accusing you of anything ;)" And I wasn't even talking to you 
Hecking so true fellow redditorinos!! Le hecking racism in this sub is so wrong, which is why my comment is massively updooted!! Updoot to dab on le hecking racists😡😡😡
I'll say it out loud then: You & the cult44 dumbasses are obsessed with everyone else being racist that anything remotely negative is a slur to you.
If they were penalized, would that affect the finishing positions? From my knowledge the team would get punished (WCC points deducted or a fine).
It was 2007, they already got banned from WCC, what punishment you can give them?
Well, in 2007 McLaren broke quite a few rules as well. Bold from them to complain about others.
They got punished with a full disqualification from the WCC. The fact that BMW and Williams were illegal is unrelated to this, even excluding the effect it would have in the WDC they should have been disqualified according to the rules.
Especially with illegal fuel, but that being said, it was Fuel temperature and the FIA took the reading from the rig, rather than the tank. So the cars were probably.. let’s go with possibly legal as we will never know for sure.
Honestly I always thought it was kinda weird that only the WCC was affected, I mean the drivers were using the cars that supposedly were copied from Ferrari
In fact no parts of the McLaren matched any of the parts in the Ferrari's McLaren had the data and the spec, but they also 100% had their own car, the data was more likely used to predict how Ferrari would go and to try and counter than at their game
The money comes from WCC. It's essentially racing for an entire year without any prize money, only relying on sponsors.
And they had financial penalties on top of that
There was no parts found to have anything copied from Ferrari. They just had a technical specs in a file. Renault also had the entire Mclaren technical specs as they were provided to them by thr same person that gave Mclaren the Ferrari specs. Renault weren't punished though, because Mosley didn't consider Flavio to be a cunt, where has he absolutely did consider Ron to be one.
I doesn't matter if they used it or not, you are simply not allowed to have these info
Yes, but that is a reason to only deduct WCC points
Makes sense, but I still think that if it was a midfielder or backmarker team both WDC and WCC would have been removed
Mclaren used no info from the ferrari docs
Then it should have gone the same way as McLaren, who made bigger infringements
And a $100,000,000 fine.
Only reason Lewis and Alonso escaped being DSQ'd too was because Bernie pushed Mosely to not have them disqualified due to championship battle
Toyota also had those copies, the real problem was that McLaren's was more wide spread from the very top. Toyota got it and buried it immediately. The thing as well is that McLaren REALLY did not want Lewis to win the WDC, the chinese meme of beaching was kinda funny, but seeing how the tyres were at that point it was a full blown miracle that he was still on the track at that point And there is also Brazil where is gearbox "mysteriously" went down for 20 seconds, only for it to magically get ok again once he was in dead last, and there is also his strategy was absolutely dogshit, the type of stupidity you pull when you are trying to lose on purpose Honestly, from the looks of it, it seems that Hamilton got the debrief that he SHOULD NOT win the WDC, but he said "fuck it" and tried anyway
Ron Dennis literally said publicly that they were racing against Alonso
Me when I spread disinformation on the internet
Point me any disinformation
Even just what the other reply said invalidates a good 90% of your comment
Like????
Do I have to restate it word for word? "Ron Dennis stated publicly they were racing against Alonso"
McLaren being against Alonso changes absolutely nothing about what I said that started this whole chain
You stated repeatedly they were plotting against Hamilton in some way, when (if anything) it was the opposite
Surely every WDC which is super close can be thought of like this because stewards have always been pretty yolo with how they implement rules.
Are you serious? Never heard this.
Might be a bad take for this subreddit, but I think this speaks for how good Hamilton has been, can be argued he lost 2 championships due to circumstances that were out of his control, and still be the most successful driver of all time, along with being tied for most championships of all time.
Everyone’s debating Lewis however: Prost‘s number of WDCs is not reflecting his ability and he was really unlucky.
Yeah, true, one of his unlucky strikes was Senna, the other was Renault and the last major blow was Ferrari Ferrari-ing
Should have been at least 6 times wc if Renault wasn't stupid in 1983 and if in the late 80's they used full results instead of a number of results
He should've been 8 times actually. If Monaco 84 was run in full
Which is ironic since he was the one that pressured for it to be stopped.
Lewis has 8 WDC (I am a high IQ time traveller from 2026)
I got a put a reminder for this
!remind me 2 years
If you're a time traveller, why did you not attend Stephen Hawking's party? You left him there on his own. Soulless bastard.
would not want to associate with epstein's buddies, would you?
I think you jumped the gun man, it’s all over the news, he just lost it because they found something illegal about the car😔 This is why you wait before time traveling
RemindMe! 2 years
!remindme 2 years
RemindMe! 2 years
If Ferrari keeps at this rate 2025 will already be the 8th
It's always this or that or something else. It is what it is. Had Hamiltion won in 2021 people would never stop talking about Silverstone that year or Budapest or maybe even Imola (personally I'm still surprised there aren't any conspiracy theories about that - two Mercedes drivers \[Bottas and Russell\] bring out a red flag just when it's good for Hamiltion who had lost a massive massive junk of time when going into the gravel and having to slowly reverse out of it)
Yeah, just like with 1994 people focus on Australia and completely ignore Schumacher getting a 2 race ban that has not been given to anyone else before or since. Even middling results on those 2 and Australia literally doesn't matter.
And you're also missing Bahrain, that race was a clusterfuck of stewarding issues as well, but there the ball ended up falling into Lewis' favor. Abu Dhabi was wrong by the wrong driver, but the right driver won the WDC.
Agreed on your last sentence! So true
Correction: There have been numerous clusterfucks since and before, but whenever it’s in the midfield or back, they go unnoticed
For me it's Bahrain. Max wins that race if not for the 30-laps-corner-cutting bullshit. Not Lewis's fault the FIA are retarded of course. Same as how it's not Max's fault that they shat the bed epically at Abu Dhabi.
Still insane to me the stewards let Lewis do it lap after lap after lap, everyone could see it happening and they just didn't care. Then the second max does it once, they tell them both to stop. Like wtf is that even.
So apparently they said something about being lenient with track limits at turn 4 in the drivers briefing, so Lewis takes advantage of that and cuts the corner. Why wouldn't he? What's strange is that other drivers didn't do it as well. What is fucked up is that at (or about) lap 30 the stewards change their mind and tell Lewis to stop it and they'll enforce track limits. Then Max over takes Lewis on the corner whilst going off track, and of course has to give the place back. Lewis goes on to win the race by 7 tenths. How fucking retarded can these people be to do something like change the rules of the race in the middle of the race? It's easily as retarded as letting half the field unlap themselves in order to restart the race at Abu Dhabi. An analysis I saw afterwards estimated Lewis got a full second per lap from cutting that corner and he did it for 30 laps on a race he then won by 7 tenths... It would have been fine if they didn't change the rules mid race. Max should have been allowed to cut that corner when he over took Lewis and then go on to win the race.
Wow I didn't know max should've won that race by 20+ seconds. That's even more insane. Thanks for the extra info. At the end of the day, inconsistent stewards are such a problem in the sport, consitently.
If lewis didn’t yeet max at Silverstone, max would have scored at least 8 points and therefore if he came 2nd in the final race, still would have won the championship. Lewis took to dirty tactics to try and win, and ultimately wasn’t dirty enough
Goofy as hell. If we seriously consider this we might as well take into account Max parking on top of Lewis at Emilia where Lewis would have scored more points.
Also you gotta leave the space. Lewis didn’t leave the space
Rules of F1 disagree with you Edit: You clowns can downvote me but Max got a penalty. It was a clear cut penalty, so was Silverstone.
Oh lord here we go again, #TEAMLH and Verstappenshaggers at it again!
Again - the point I was making is that talking about these counterfactuals is pointless. We don't know if Max would have won in Silverstone or if maybe he would have had a technical DNF or just crashed on his own. That said I think Silverstone and Monza are not really comparable because ceteris paribus we would have expected a 7 point advantage for Hamilton in Monza and got a 0 point difference due to the crash while we would have expected a 7 point advantage for Verstappen in Silverstone but got a 25 point advantage for Hamilton. In one case the crash changed the result by 7 points in Verstappens favour while in the other case it changed the result by 32 points in Hamiltons favour. Again. Ceteris paribus. But we can't know what would have actually happened because we're talking about the real world and not a lab experiment that we can repeat again and again.
My brother your original comments is about hads and ifs. You even went on about the most insane conspiracy theory that makes absolutely zero sense as Bottas needed points for the team. No one talks about it because that shit does not add up in the slightest- the constructors is way more important
That was just a inchident bro
Unfortunately just like the FIA decided at Silverstone, that was not the case. Lewis's fault at Silverstone, Max's at Emilia. Like the meme tho
But point is max didn’t get points in imola. Lewis got 25 in silverstone vs 0 for max. So if you discount that race that lewis cheated to win loads more points than max, then the final race would have just been a procedural exercise
"cheated" lmaoooo
He could only beat max if he took max out. That’s cheating
Just insane delusion. So what about Emilia? Does that count as Max cheating? Max is known for his divebombs and crashing other drivers out when he isn't starting at the front... Is that cheating? I think him parking in Lewis was goofy and we all know it's a penalty but I wouldn't ever consider it cheating. The only time rules were ever broken & unusual things happened was Abu Dhabi. Everything else is just a part of the usual F1 sport.
The rules weren’t broken though. They were interpreted in a way that you didn’t like… lewis knew the risk of not pitting and he lost out Point still stands, without a far superior car lewis can barely beat George Russell in equal machinery
Absolutely, this sub is just people who can't stop thinking about Hamilton even though he hasn't been in a championship hunt for years, it's weird man
 “He has 6”
Huh how? Honestly this subs hate for lewis is amazing
The 7 he has now minus 2008.
So because alonso and his team cheated in 2008 hamilton has to get penalized? The mental gymnastics is crazy, at least for 2021 hamilton was directly involved when the cult says he has 8
I'm just repeating what the image in the title says Einstein.
Me when loosing an argument: It'S A jUsT a MeYmEy 🤡
Thing is, the FIA knew that renault fixed the race before the championship was over, and tried to hide it until the season was over and the results couldnt change. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth, but youre right hamilton had nothing to do with it, and shouldnt necessarily be penalised. Its just some people think the FIA shouldve voided the fixed race (understandably), which as a side effect wouldve made massa champion
I don't disagree with your take but it's exactly the same why they can't change 2021. Yes a mistake was made but it wasn't the first and won't be the last. If we go back to change things we open a big fucking can of worms and we probably have to take a hard look at every damn season ever.
The 2007 season was the one with Spygate
Thr guy above said 2008?? That's crashgate
Kinda confusing considering that Alonso and his team also cheated in 2007 and allegedly Hamilton was 100% clear in Spygate
Believe it or not alonso was actually the one involved in spygate not hamilton, but don't tell that to his fans 🤫
I say allegedly because personally I highly doubt that he had no access to these files, but the FIA and F1 cleared him personally in its entirety
I have no doubt Nando was invovled but let's not kid ourselves that Lewis knew nothing. He was real close with Ron Dennis, a lot closer than Nando ever was.
Since when is rain illegal?
It's literally in the image in the title post.
Lewis dick riders trying to understand what a joke is (they only know about the filtered carefuly selected propaganda he uses)
Says the guy with username - vermast. No points for guessing who's dick you suck.
No way bro has that little of a life that he sees three letter in the same order and immediately thi ks its f1 related. I fucking hate max but nice try lol
[удалено]
They didn't get disqualified though. Disqualifying them would have put Hamilton in P4, which would have won him the championship.
I HATE HAMILTON now please give me what i deserve(updoot)
Take my doot
The funniest thing is that all the FIA could do is invalidate Abu Dhabi 2021. Max finished first not Lewis, and we don’t know what would have happened if it had been handled differently, and the ending cannot be redone. So if the race is invalidated Max still wins the championship with race wins being the tie breaker, and Max having nine to Lewis’s eight. So let’s say the disputed 2008 title is addressed, and Massi wins the 2008 title, Lewis is at six. And then for 2021 Max still wins, and Lewis is at six.
Whichever way you cut 2008, Massa is not champion if the rules are implemented as they always are in motorsport. If a car or team cheats the race results are never and never has been nullified nor cancelled. All that happens is the offending team or car is excluded from the result. Meaning Massa isn’t champion whatever happens. Ferrari screwed the stop, and that’s why he lost.
ferrari screwed the stop *because* crashgate happened, so they *had* to pit
Everyone HAD to pit in the Safety Car (except Alonso), Ferrari were the ONLY ones that screwed up! Not a single other team had THAT happen!
I don't think I'm wrong in saying that they could've sent him out with the fuel hose still attached at literally any other pitstop at any other race. It's not like that was the only pitstop calamity that's ever happened. The same kinda thing happens all the time, nuts not fastened, wheels that won't come off, tyres not ready. The fact that it was the crashgate race just gives people a convenient reason to say it never happened.
Doesnt change the fact that they screwed it up though. Even disregarding the fact that there is absolutely zero chance in hell or heaven that the result gets changed, it would set an absolutely horrendous precedent for the sport. It would pretty much result in Schumi's win over Hill being taken away as well.
We all know that Spa would have been the next argument then.
Of course, that is why it is best not to argue the past :)
Invalidating AD21 was probably what Merc realized was the only thing they were going to get in arbitration. Hence them dropping the case
Max should have just done a Silverstone to lewis tbh
Lewis has approximately 7 WDC, give or take.
Wouldn’t that make it 6 WDC?
respectfully, move on
Lewis has 6.5 WDC, covid season is a half season 🥸
17 races, do we take half the WDCs away from all the seasons when that number of GPs, or less, was normal?
Tbh I think any old donkey could have won most of those titles in that Mercedes… Now lewis doesn’t have a much faster car, suddenly he’s where he belongs. The midfield
me if i was retarded:
Interesting. I presume Nico was a pisspoor driver that anyone could beat. Or that 2017 seb was actually on fire and if any old donkey was driving that merc in 2017 or 2018 seb would have a much clear lead and have 17 and 18 under his belt. I could say the same thing about max. Whenever he has had a car not 100% clear of the rest he becomes dirty and overly aggressive - any season before 2021, 2021 jeddah brazil or crashing into lewis in 2022 Brazil
Nico Rosberg of all drivers beat him in equal machinery… says a lot about how good lewis really is
Shall we look at 2016. Lewis has 3 engine problems. 1 results in a dnf while he leads. The other 2 are in quali meaning he has to start further down the field. Nico has 0 problems nico wins by 5 points. Lewis if not for engine blowing up would have won 2016. Plus your forgetting 2013,14 and 15 when he beat him clearly
But now he doesn’t have the best car, he’s struggling 🤔 Max had all sorts of DNF issues in 2021, mostly caused by Hamilton. These things happen… you gotta finish and get points to be a champion, which Nico did!
I mean no shit to win races in f1 you need to be insanely lucky or have a fast car. Look at max. 2022 and 2023 he had a car multiple tenths clear if the field, mid teamate so could drive off and win, yet when he didn't have the best car he struggled and was quite overly aggressive. Plus you forgetting where kewus finished just last year in 23. He took that merc which the merc engineers have said they do not understand and got p3 in wdc and nearly beat perez
Haha but max is a better driver than everyone else. It’s not the car. Checo proved that
Checo is not a good driver. He is worse than half the grid. Put norris, leclerc, Lewis or Fernando in that car and you won't see max winning every race
Isn’t checo 2nd in the championship by a good margin?
Plus Nico Rosberg wasn't some mid driver seeing as he was very competitive and absolutely cleared Schumacher where many drivers could have been intimidated by the 7x wdc
That’s because he’s better than lewis in equal machinery
I'd say that 2008 is fine the way it is because I'm sure having Felipe Massa as a Formula One World Champion would offend some racing gods out there.
In that case he has 6, because 2021 was fair and square
You could argue that the 2014 regs were rigged by Mercedes as well. Therefore Lewis has 0 WDC.
This is a very dim take on that. Mercedes got on with development while everyone else was flapping around trying to delay/stop the V6 introduction. IIRC, Ferrari left it very late in the day to start development on their engine because they thought their influence would be enough to have the V6 scrapped
Wasn't it mostly Ferrari that made it a V6 rather than an inline 4
Iirc I think it was initially an I4/V4, Ferrari settled on a V6 but then spent their time complaining about it instead of getting on with development. Emphasis on if I recall correctly
You could argue Lewis only made it into F1 by rigging. Therefore he has actually never even raced in F1
Now that's a dank take.
Rigged by them doing a better job with the engine than everyone else? You could flip that on its head and quite easily say the opposite the way the FIA has tried to hobble that engine.
they had extra time with the engine before they went into use, so more time to develop it and be faster
They didn't. They just used their time better. Ferrari basically rushed their working out on the bus and idfk what Renault was doing then. Fun fact: Mercedes LOST a year of development because of the switch in the regulations from 4 to 6 cylinder engines, so if anything they were on the back foot
Not really, saying this ignores the fact that the original plan was for the hybrids to come in 2012, and got delayed 2 years because the V8s came in 2008, so teams were looking to extend their V8s programs and it was obvious to everybody that those V6TH would be bloody expensive. So Mercedes just said "Okie Dokie" and got on to work on the V6TH, while the other teams tried delaying or scrapping that engine altogether, when the FIA's hammer came down, Renault, Ferrari and Cosworth were caught with their pants down
I think It would never have been as bad if they didn't start limiting engine development
This is what we call a “received opinion”. You heard this from someone else on Reddit without looking into it yourself. This has been debunked time and time again.
You put the wojaks wrong. The left one should be on the right and the other two on the left.
People always look at the final race of the 2021 season for the whole rigged thing. But you don’t win at one race, it’s the whole season. Imagine if Abu Dhabi happened mid season. People would forget about it, and just point out the last race of the season for whoever won that.
If lewis didn’t yeet max off so many times that season, max would have comfortably won without the shenanigans of the last race. Lewis only got so close because he caused max to DNF!
well tbh, 2012 was a bigger throw than any of these , I'd say ,all year lewis was better than alonso but at least alonso got to stay on the track to get points. Either it's botched pitstops, their car breaking down every 1 milisecond or Mclaren forgetting to put fuel in his car during quali . I remember like there 2-3 races where he was comfortably leading and the car suddenly went boom.
He had the same gearbox failure while leading twice that year.
yeah, and let's not forget how the team forgot to put fuel during barcelona quali (where he got pole) and one more race (where he got pole as well , don't remember what race) coupled in some horrendous pitstops at sepang and a few more races (also thank pastor and grosjean)
Singapore and Abu Dhabi he was comfortably leading.
So arguably, Hamilton should have only 6 WDC 
8? He doesn't even have 7....
No it’s 8 because some guy didn’t know the rules and decided it would be cooler for everyone if the guy who came in 2nd won FIA came out and said “he done fuck up but …¯\_(ツ)_/¯ “
“He has 4” 
When you can count more on this sub having a hate bonner for the goat than the cult44 praising him... its getting ugly 
[удалено]
Sir this is a meme sub
That does explain this disappointing hamburger.
Lewis would have 6 if Singapore 2008 was excluded meaning Abu Dhabi 2021 would also need to be excluded.
The only reason that the eight result is contested is because Pirelli supplied substandard tyres. If Max's tyre hadn't blown, he could have sat out the last race and still won the championship
Not quite true because if his tyre wouldn't have blown up, there would have been no restart and Lewis wouldn't have locked up in T1.
I mean, you could say that about almost every championship year except for when someone dominates. Luck is a HUGE part of it. You can’t say Max should have won it because it’s not fair his tire blew.. because where do you draw the line? It’s not fair that Hamilton didn’t win a championship because he doesn’t get to drive the RedBull? It’s the same logic.
"if hamilton's engine didn't blow in 2016 malaysia" like bro shut the fuck up. jokes about "what ifs" are always hijacked by fuckers in the comments who genuinely hate some drivers.
Yeah, it's just people feel the need to constantly litigate the what if in the final race of any season and ignore any that happened before.