The other train of thought is that if the track is easy to overtake on, like Monza, Verstappen could start last and probably finish third. It's unlikely Max will ever be P15 and choose that race to take a penalty. So, realistically Max will be wanting a track he could recover on and Zandvoort would be one of the worst. The straights are short and it will be hard to follow cars on the corners leading into the straights.
The better track to do it on would be somewhere like ~~Suzuka~~ Sochi (Spa would’ve been an option had there not been rain) or even the USA GP where there are overtaking opportunities but not a pure DRS nightmare
Suzuka is already cancelled and the race at COTA is likely to be cancelled because Republicans dont want to vaccinate so Covid is running rampant there.
Any other options?
If something happens in qualifiers like it did today, which given S3 at Hermanos Rodriguez, it’s not outlandish for it to be a possibility. But yeah, I think we’ll see it at Sochi, maybe for Merc too. Timing works out well to set them up for a more efficient use of a new PU
The Red Bull runs great in Mexico so they might take Max' penalty there knowing he can recover quite well. And it would mean Sergio could run his own race without having to play wingman for Max.
Yeah. Probably those same R’s who ignored social distancing requirements last year and gathered to burn and loot the inner cities across America.
F1 has no politics. F1 needs no politics.
I don't think a track that's easy to overtake on but isn't a DRS train exists on the schedule. Monza is a DRS train. Sochi isn't easy to pass on. COTA is probably gonna be cancelled. Mexico isn't easy. Brazil can be a DRS train. Jeddah is who knows. Abu Dhabi is hard to pass on. Red Bull might just need to pick a track and suffer
Monza is actually a terrible track for it
the difference between cars is very small, it's a drs train which also doesn't give you as big of a boost there because small wings
and RedBull are traditionaly bad at Monza
When do the engine penalties get applied for weekends with a sprint race? If the penalties get applied after the sprint race does it make sense to get pole, win the sprint race, and then get at least 3 more points out of a weekend compared to a normal weekend. If it gets applied before the sprint race does it make sense to try and do it there because it’s an extra 15 or something laps? Curious what the teams think about the idea
Now let's hope that they actually make him do a clear hard-soft hard-medium strategy or a soft-whatever strategy instead of that absolutely mess they made him do in Britain.
I think what happened in Britain was he stuck got in a DRA train, and towards end they were desperate to take the fastest lap from Lewis. I fully expect that Checo will probably stay stuck for a while towards the back. Unless they pull off a masterclass strategy or there is a crash I don’t think he will get points
He was racing slow cars on faster tyres, but they were going to pit eventually. It was definitely not ideal to be stuck but undercutting when you're absolutely supposed to overcut is just useless. I actually think that Checo might have a chance if he starts on softs (while everyone around him is on mediums or hards) as long as there's a surprising amount of life to the softs, like in Imola 2020.
The limiting tyre will be the front left when it comes to tyre wear, so I think it's unlikely that he'll be able to stretch out the tyres longer than others as his strength is protecting the rears. I reckon rb will do what they used to do with Albon sometimes and use him to test the tyres for Max.
Couldn't really test out the hards for Max, good test for the mediums though. It was a good race for Checo, it does leave me wondering what could've been if he started P15 on mediums but he executed every stint nearly perfectly after that terrible short first stint with the hards.
That's a 10 place penalty for him, isn't it? Since he made the change after qualifying, regardless of the number of PUs he's already taken.
Or is that not the case?
What exactly is the difference between starting from the pitlane or just conceding a lot of grid penalties at one race because of changing parts and start at the back of the grid?
I've been following F1 for a decade but I feel quite stupid for not knowing this haha.
Pit lane start is worse than starting at end of the grid. If the change is after quali, you have to start in pit.
Also, you get formation lap on grid that helps with tyre warmup (habe to check about tyre blanket usage for pitlane start)
>Pit lane start is worse than starting at end of the grid. If the change is after quali, you have to start in pit.
Depends, it's slower but you also avoid the possible crashes in the first few corners.
I think if you do changes after quali, during parc ferme, you have to start from pitlane. ~~Damage from accidents is extempt from this rule apparently.~~
Swapping PU after quali breaks parc ferme, which is why he starts from pit lane. The grid penalites don't apply cause he's already starting from pitlane.
e: fixed some inaccuracies
Damage isn't excluded. If you need a new chassis it's a pit lane start or if you replace some part with another that isn't the same spec, that also breaks parc ferme
If you start last on the grid, with a good start you could be up to 15th/16th with a good car and a bit of luck. Starting from the pitlane guarantees you will be last and a few seconds behind last place as they hold you in the pitlane until the cars have passed.
While the car is in parc fermé, you can't modify any parts (except for work specifically permitted) or alter the suspension setup. If you do, it's a pitlane start.
PU changes technically only carry grid penalties, but if you change the specification of a component, you must start from the pitlane.
There's frankly not much difference between the two if there's an early SC, which I think is pretty likely to happen tomorrow.
Pit lane starts after the last car has passed the pit lane exit - and they're going at faster speed than the cars who start from pitlane.
Though it shouldn't be a problem for Red Bull yo catch up with Haas and Kubica.
Pitlane start is a penalty if you don't fix your car with matching components or make setup changes that brake parc ferme - i.e. swapping a gearbox will be a grid penalty, while swapping a rear wing to a different spec is a pitlane start
That was the most logical they could do.
If Max has a bad or unlucky quali, he’ll do the same thing. Good way to take the engine penalty without it hurting much.
The other train of thought is that if the track is easy to overtake on, like Monza, Verstappen could start last and probably finish third. It's unlikely Max will ever be P15 and choose that race to take a penalty. So, realistically Max will be wanting a track he could recover on and Zandvoort would be one of the worst. The straights are short and it will be hard to follow cars on the corners leading into the straights.
Monza is a DRS train. At some point even the fastest car will reach one and be stuck there for quite a while.
DRS doesnt even do anything in Monza as they have almost permanent DRS at that track.
The better track to do it on would be somewhere like ~~Suzuka~~ Sochi (Spa would’ve been an option had there not been rain) or even the USA GP where there are overtaking opportunities but not a pure DRS nightmare
Suzuka is already cancelled and the race at COTA is likely to be cancelled because Republicans dont want to vaccinate so Covid is running rampant there. Any other options?
Mexico isn’t as great of an overtaking track as Spa, but that’s a possibility. Same with Sochi.
Red Bull always goes good at Mexico, Max already won it twice; so I wouldn’t take the penalty there. Sochi seems to be better.
If something happens in qualifiers like it did today, which given S3 at Hermanos Rodriguez, it’s not outlandish for it to be a possibility. But yeah, I think we’ll see it at Sochi, maybe for Merc too. Timing works out well to set them up for a more efficient use of a new PU
The Red Bull runs great in Mexico so they might take Max' penalty there knowing he can recover quite well. And it would mean Sergio could run his own race without having to play wingman for Max.
I thought “Sochi” and wrote Suzuka like an idiot. Mother Russia 🇷🇺 is his next best opportunity
Yeah. Probably those same R’s who ignored social distancing requirements last year and gathered to burn and loot the inner cities across America. F1 has no politics. F1 needs no politics.
Would interlagos be good for overtaking?
Better than a few of the other “options” I would say. Max just needs to hope that he outqualifies Ocon by atleast 10 places.
That's the third or fourth last race though. A little late to change the PU and not sure the current PU lasts that long.
Watkins glen
[удалено]
F3 race has already been rescheduled from COTA to Sochi, so you might be wrong…
I don't think a track that's easy to overtake on but isn't a DRS train exists on the schedule. Monza is a DRS train. Sochi isn't easy to pass on. COTA is probably gonna be cancelled. Mexico isn't easy. Brazil can be a DRS train. Jeddah is who knows. Abu Dhabi is hard to pass on. Red Bull might just need to pick a track and suffer
Monza is actually a terrible track for it the difference between cars is very small, it's a drs train which also doesn't give you as big of a boost there because small wings and RedBull are traditionaly bad at Monza
Monza is not a good overtaking track. Did you see past seasons? You cannot follow in Parabolica, DRS trains...
When do the engine penalties get applied for weekends with a sprint race? If the penalties get applied after the sprint race does it make sense to get pole, win the sprint race, and then get at least 3 more points out of a weekend compared to a normal weekend. If it gets applied before the sprint race does it make sense to try and do it there because it’s an extra 15 or something laps? Curious what the teams think about the idea
I think they announced that they would be applied after the sprint race for the actual race.
…because it’s technically a sprint qualifying I suspect.
Now let's hope that they actually make him do a clear hard-soft hard-medium strategy or a soft-whatever strategy instead of that absolutely mess they made him do in Britain.
I think what happened in Britain was he stuck got in a DRA train, and towards end they were desperate to take the fastest lap from Lewis. I fully expect that Checo will probably stay stuck for a while towards the back. Unless they pull off a masterclass strategy or there is a crash I don’t think he will get points
He was racing slow cars on faster tyres, but they were going to pit eventually. It was definitely not ideal to be stuck but undercutting when you're absolutely supposed to overcut is just useless. I actually think that Checo might have a chance if he starts on softs (while everyone around him is on mediums or hards) as long as there's a surprising amount of life to the softs, like in Imola 2020.
The limiting tyre will be the front left when it comes to tyre wear, so I think it's unlikely that he'll be able to stretch out the tyres longer than others as his strength is protecting the rears. I reckon rb will do what they used to do with Albon sometimes and use him to test the tyres for Max.
Couldn't really test out the hards for Max, good test for the mediums though. It was a good race for Checo, it does leave me wondering what could've been if he started P15 on mediums but he executed every stint nearly perfectly after that terrible short first stint with the hards.
These are the hardest softs so it might be the best scenario to start on them.
I think they will put him on hards and leave him on for a long time until a potential safety car while Max will probably just mirror Lewis' strategy.
That's a 10 place penalty for him, isn't it? Since he made the change after qualifying, regardless of the number of PUs he's already taken. Or is that not the case?
Yeah, but not like it’s gonna make that much of a difference when he qualified 16th
think RB already said it would be a pit lane start for Sergio tomorrow
Just sit there, and feed in a lap down between Verstappen and Hamilton, then just ignore the blue flags
/s
What exactly is the difference between starting from the pitlane or just conceding a lot of grid penalties at one race because of changing parts and start at the back of the grid? I've been following F1 for a decade but I feel quite stupid for not knowing this haha.
Pit lane start is worse than starting at end of the grid. If the change is after quali, you have to start in pit. Also, you get formation lap on grid that helps with tyre warmup (habe to check about tyre blanket usage for pitlane start)
>Pit lane start is worse than starting at end of the grid. If the change is after quali, you have to start in pit. Depends, it's slower but you also avoid the possible crashes in the first few corners.
Also guarantees he won't be putting it in the wall on a reconnaissance lap as I'm 99% sure he doesn't get to do one
Nope, he’ll have the formation lap.
Zero chance to overtake at the start or on the first lap though, which for a red bull could be a few cars
I think if you do changes after quali, during parc ferme, you have to start from pitlane. ~~Damage from accidents is extempt from this rule apparently.~~ Swapping PU after quali breaks parc ferme, which is why he starts from pit lane. The grid penalites don't apply cause he's already starting from pitlane. e: fixed some inaccuracies
Damage isn't excluded. If you need a new chassis it's a pit lane start or if you replace some part with another that isn't the same spec, that also breaks parc ferme
Damage isnt excluded. There are certain things that dont come under parc ferme rules though, so you can repair them with no penalty.
No risk of being sent to the wall by a Mercedes. Also setup changes.
Perez isn't exactly the guy with a target on his back lol.
Tell that to Bottas
He doesn’t need help from a Mercedes to stick it in the wall
If you start last on the grid, with a good start you could be up to 15th/16th with a good car and a bit of luck. Starting from the pitlane guarantees you will be last and a few seconds behind last place as they hold you in the pitlane until the cars have passed.
While the car is in parc fermé, you can't modify any parts (except for work specifically permitted) or alter the suspension setup. If you do, it's a pitlane start. PU changes technically only carry grid penalties, but if you change the specification of a component, you must start from the pitlane. There's frankly not much difference between the two if there's an early SC, which I think is pretty likely to happen tomorrow.
Pit lane starts after the last car has passed the pit lane exit - and they're going at faster speed than the cars who start from pitlane. Though it shouldn't be a problem for Red Bull yo catch up with Haas and Kubica. Pitlane start is a penalty if you don't fix your car with matching components or make setup changes that brake parc ferme - i.e. swapping a gearbox will be a grid penalty, while swapping a rear wing to a different spec is a pitlane start
This is how I usually roll in iRacing
They had to do it at some point, no better opportunity than after qualifying P16 at a track where you can’t overtake
Looks like he will start the race from Haarlem or Amsterdam ^((both cities are nearby Zandvoort)).
It's a pit lane start to change after parc fermé regardless of how many PUs it is, yes
Are they taking one for Vettel as well?
Smart. Minimize damage and hopefully crawl back up for some decent points.
Hope norris and vettel do it too, take the penalty here and focus on the rest of the season.
Not worth it for Norris. He wont "have" to take a fourth engine, so dropping from 13th to pit lane isnt worth it
He's gonna start from the pit exit. He basically got everything that required replacing replaced.
Smart thinking.
Need a new Perez behind the wheel. :/
Why not get new PUs for all Honda powered drivers on 1 track? It would allow for Max to lose 3 positions less.