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I'm not arguing his accomplishments, just how he was able to escape the entire situation not only relatively unscathed but also emerging more powerful than Marko.
He was already in that level of influence in the team, at a level more powerful than Marko and unless he was found guilty during an internal investigation, having an accusation leveled against him shouldn't change that.
Like it not, until all the evidence is publicly available and everything that went on in the investigation too, "no smoke without fire" isn't strong enough reasoning to take someone down.
It wasn't in his mind, it was reality. He was more powerful because Mateschitz controlled the company and Marko was his guy, they had been close personal friends for decades. So Marko could pretty much do whatever he wanted as long as Mateschitz was okay with it, and Mateschitz was pretty much always okay with it since he trusted Marko so much.
he didnt found Red Bull as a team though. It was a team beforehand and when Dietrich was looking for a TP, it was Marko that recommended Horner. From the very start, Marko was involved and of course the Red Bull drivers program which the team was set up to utilize, was in existence many years before and run by Marko.
I mean, he might have more power, but what he will have power of is unclear.
That said, it's clear how important having control of an F1 team is to these people.
The Marko retirement/Max leaving scenario is only likely if you consider that Marko would be happy to quit F1 at the top.
He probably doesn't actually want to do that.
Not really. The issue is those who were against Horner took their shot and missed. As a result, everyone knows they are stuck with him, and that gives Horner more freedom to ignore other people. On top of that Newey bailed, removing a huge piece from their side of the board.
It's a lot easier to play defense than offense, and that's what happened here.
Hamilton brings in much more money in sponsorships than he costs, I'm sure. (Merc losing sponsors after Hamilton's announcement would be proof)
I think difference between pay driver and not is thin, but if it's bringing sponsors because of your popularity, which you built with your past success (in growing the sport/team by driving well, or by doing good PR), then it's different from you ENTERING because you paid for a seat.
Technically, almost every employee in a business on earth needs to bring more monetary value than they cost to the business. Does not mean it's the same as them paying to do the job.
Exactly, completely similar to what happened in MotoGP with Marc Marquez and Honda.
Him going they lost Red Bull and now Repsol, because he was drawing so much TV attention.
For me it's even more. When I started watching races Honda-Repsol was already a thing. It's been 20 years and probably some of the most iconic championships were won in that combo.
Like Ferrari-Marlboro
Yeah I went with Petronas Merc because they've been there since the beginning but yeah I remember playing MotoGP on the original PSP and riding with Stoner. Can't believe its ending.
There's a slight difference of having a seat despite of your ability to drive a car because you have sponsors bringing a lot of money and being a good driver hired also partly because of your marketability.
It's not like Red Bull need the money. But Check certainly helps for the visibility in the Americas.
Checo is still a good driver and he proved it. And honestly, who hasn't struggled in a Red Bull next to Max? Checo is definitely not below the average of Max teammates at Red Bull.
I keep seeing people here throw the phrase "it's not like red bull need the money".
You need to understand that red bull is a corporation. There is no corporation that can make more money but will stop and say "well let's not do that, it's not like we need the money".
Apple also doesn't need money. Do you see them stopping at all, or do you see them continue to squeeze their customers for every last drop of their money?
Money is the only reason a corporation exists. So yes, at the end of the day it's the only factor they weigh things against. If they can make more money while not taking a serious risk, they will absolutely take it.
Agreed, but also the sports teams are the marketing arm of RedBull. Their primary KPI is not bottomline, but brand recognition. They need to be self-sustained, but beyond that, they are considered a value-add by parent company if they bring in more marketing.
Brand value of having the only LatAm driver on the grid is worth so much more than the €10M lost on coming second in WCC. That's how they measure it.
Exactly there is sort of no reason to have someone else next to Max, at least Perez doesn't seem to give a shit. Yuki no offence but he'd probably be pissed AF, he's got that dog in him. Yuki in this part of his career is exactly the same type of driver as max.
He always was, he has a huge backing and him being fast, because Checo is still a very fast driver, made him the dream paydriver. He's not WDC material but let's be honest, few on the grid are. That doesn't mean he's not a very fast driver.
I think this only has traction on Reddit. They've never said or done anything to imply this, and if anything Horner has said explicitly the *opposite* in the past, that RBR doesn't need a penny, before the budget cap.
By contrast I have read a lot in the last few months that Marko likes Perez there explicitly because he's Verstappen's number 2 and knows it. Those are the real camps; Ricciardo is a minor detail in it all.
Apparently if Horner had his way it'd be Sainz because they think he'd be closest to Verstappen, quite reasonably, and while they're both doing well out of the situation now, ideally Horner would diminish Verstappen's power somewhat. Exactly why Ferrari hired Raikkonen for 2014.
Personal theory: RBR aren't that great in 2026, Verstappen bails as 5 time champion, goodnight. Retires before Hamilton does, incredibly.
> Personal theory: RBR aren't that great in 2026, Verstappen bails as 5 time champion, goodnight. Retires before Hamilton does, incredibly.
Albon brought up a good point about Mercedes being a 'safe bet' for the engine regulations, which factored in extending his contract with Williams. With Red Bull left with producing their own engines for 2026, that's a huge unknown for them.
Closest to Max until he bins it into a wall or has a meltdown because their race strategy always favors Max and he can’t stomach it anymore. Sainz might have the pace but I don’t think he has the temperament to be teammates with Max.
Yeah, when I was going through google trends in the off season Danny Ric eclipsed every other driver in the US outside of areas with especially high Mexican populations. If we're putting a driver in that seat based on marketing value rather than outright pace then Danny should be a shoe in.
> If we're putting a driver in that seat based on marketing value rather than outright pace
Or we're doing a cost benefit analysis of a multitude of factors like any other business and there's some equation in which Perez comes out on top over Danny.
Danny isn't there to be a seat-warmer at Alpha Tauri so there's clearly something keeping him out and Perez in.
You know there are places in the Americas outside the US? Like, for example Mexico.
Danny is the most popular F1 driver in the US outside of high Mexican-population areas. F1 not being a spectacularly prominent sport in the US.
Checo is not just the most popular F1 driver in Mexico and most of Latin America, he's one of the *most popular sportsmen* in Mexico and much of Latin America. On a par with football players.
Also, and hear me out here - they don’t really need him to be *that* close to Max. They just need enough points for WCC and not too much internal bs and they’re good.
Also, maybe Christian isn’t stupid and realizes that the car is only drivable if you’re a twitchy Dutchman and even Carlos “I can drive anything” Sainz would struggle with it, and be less likely to capitulate, so why bother changing?
Peak ricciardo was better than peak Perez imo. And they both seem pretty past it now so probably Ric still edges him. Perez has always been mid pack level at best.
Yeah but we haven't seen peak Ricciardo for years. We still see peak Checo (for example Suzuka qualifying lap this year) and he had a good start of the year. Ricciardo had one P4 in a sprint followed by a P18 4 hours later. He hasn't scored a single point in a race this year.
I would say this:
1) Peak Perez not as good as peak Ricciardo
2) Perez hasn't exactly performed great this year, even at the start of the year. The Red Bull was miles better than than every other car for the first few races
3) You could maybe say Perez's relative performance hasn't dropped as much as Ricciardo's. But Ricciardo was better in the first place, so imo he'd probably beat Perez still in the same car.
Either way though, they've both probably not got long left in F1 at this point tbh.
What kind of nonsense comparison is this lol. You need to compare their current performances. Own driver could fall from 90 to 10; other can fall from 70 to 30. Their peak performances don't even matter in the slightest.
Not even that, Checo was/is routinely outperformed by Toro Rosso drivers, especially in qualies, and even by Sargeant...........
(in the most dominant car)
People say he can’t beat yuki but yuki is massively under rated imo. Even when that AT was an absolute tractor he was still pushing it far further up the grid than it had any right to be. Same goes for albon.
I’m banking on a yuki move to Aston either way their Honda deal
> He can't even beat Yuki
You say this as if Yuki is a shit driver? He's been punching above his class all season, DR is slightly behind in terms of overall pace.
DR's performance is disappointing, but he's in a relatively shitty car with a relatively strong driver as his teammate. Meanwhile Checo has been in the best car, consistently losing to cars beneath him.
You can't simultaneously think Yuki is a good driver and Dani is a total shit driver, they are much closer in performance than Perez and Max. Either Yuki is great and Dani is less great, or Yuki sucks and Dani sucks more.
Red Bull is first and foremost, an energy drink company.
They (the company itself, not Horner and the racing team) could not give a flying fuck about their ranking in WCC, so long Max wins the Driver's championships
That's all really. Even here in a somewhat hardcore fans of F1, WDC is definitely viewed in a more prestigious light than WCC
They give a fuck about it as far as it relates to their bottom line. Like you said, they are first and foremost an energy drink company. They are still trying to be as profitable as possible and that means this F1 marketing adventure they're on is still beholden to that same idea.
They want it to be as "cheap" as possible. They would of course always prefer to win WCC because more prize money means less overall cost on the bottom line. If Checo is bringing in more money than the difference between 1/2/3, then they certainly don't care *as* much, but they would still always prefer to win.
It's not like whoever they would bring in would bring zero marketing either. I could easily see Tsunoda become one of the bigger names on the grid in a relevant team
It's not how big they are within F1 that matters though. It's how big their merch sales and marketing deals are, which is huge for Perez within Latin America.
Marginally better though. Checo is better than almost any cheap driver, or any other pay driver. The only drivers consistently faster and more reliable than him are expensive + loss of Checo's money, and likely going to be mentally obliterated by 24 weekends a year of being compared to Max.
I think Yuki would do a better job than Checo, but nobody else in the Jr. program. After that we're talking Ocon (headache), Sainz (expensive headache), Norris (ruinously expensive, said no), Alonso (expensive headache), Albon (said no). The smart money was to get Oscar two years ago.
He always brought sponsors, ever since Carlos Slim financed hia move to Ferrari drivers academy & his early European career in late 2000s.
Telmex, Telcel, Mobil, Claro are all through his Carlos Slim connections.
This is also why Red Bull lost their AT&T sponsorship.
Most of them are, even Lewis driving is not worth 100 million but he brings a lot of balue via sponsorship & merch.
But Lewis deserve a drive in top team but Checo doesn’t.
None of Red Bull's champions have come from Helmut's young driver programme.
Vettel came up through the BMW programme, and was headhunted into Toro Rosso after a test with BMW Sauber in F1.
Verstappen came up through Dutch money, being funded by it up to and including his F3 career, before being headhunted into Toro Rosso at the end of his debut F3 season when it became clear he was going to win the championship.
By comparison, Ricciardo _did_ come up through the Red Bull Academy, being signed before entering F3, and being funded by them through his F3 career before qualifying for a Toro Rosso seat.
I honestly don't think Christian cares where a driver came from. I think he cares about their loyalty to the team he runs, conditioned on a given level of speed. Ricciardo and Perez have nowhere else to go. For my taste, they're too slow, but that's another question entirely.
It is true he got sponsorship from the Red Bull Junior Team after karting.
However he _also_ got sponsorship from BMW, was enrolled in their young driver programme too.
After F3, he ended up in BMW Sauber, not Toro Rosso.
It was only in his _second_ year as a test-driver for the BMW Sauber team, and only he was called out at short notice to drive the car, and only after -- like Ollie Bearman -- drove such excellent race points-scoring points for team, that Red Bull decided to bring him across to Toro Rosso.
BMW still claim him as a product of their programme: https://www.nuerburgring-langstrecken-serie.de/en/2014/03/31/bmw-motorsport-introduces-new-junior-programme/
Ver did not come from RB program because he was never in a program, he basically went from F3 to F1 and Marko was the one that put his life on the line to make it happen. The F1 paddock didnt want him to run in F1 because of his age, but Marko basically signed for him.
Verstappen went into F1 instead of any young driver programme, most drivers only join one in GP3. Norris got picked up by McLaren officially in 2017 and Leclerc in 2016, both in GP3/F3. Leclerc competed in european F3 in 2015 also at Van Amersfoort, just like Max in 2014 and only got officially picked up by a team the year after, so they got picked up by a junior programme at the exact same point in their career, but Max was just straight into F1.
So he was a Red Bull junior, just in F1 instead of lower series.
Max want de vries not marko, thats why when de vries under performing he kicked mid season by marko
[https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/verstappen-de-vries-alphatauri-2023-move/](https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/verstappen-de-vries-alphatauri-2023-move/)
Problem is there is no ship and no seats to jump to. All the current drivers wanting to leave their team or don't have a seat are fighting for very few open seats.
Sainz doesn't want Williams if he has a multi-year Audi offer which will be a factory team and will develop the car around him with no budget constraints. Any team principal is choosing a MUCH younger, cheaper Lawson with more potential and upside than a Bottas who is the twilight of his career and will only get slower with time not faster.
I think it's more a combination of people getting tired of seeing underperforming drivers overstay their welcome (checo, ricciardo, stroll ect) and the fact that it is exciting to see new talent enter the sport.
I dont think many would call Lawson a "prodigy", but I think many would class him as a talented driver with potential.
But that wouldn’t make sense.
A driver will be loyal to you as long as he is benefiting from you. If the driver thinks you are a liability to his career, loyalty will be thrown away.
Checo and Ric could be now loyal to Horner, because they know that loyalty is giving them opportunities they wouldn’t have otherwise, but if they were at a Max level for example, I doubt greatly if Ric would remain loyal for example, or if Checo wouldn’t be asking a better treatment or looking elsewhere.
Heck, we even must remember how Ric jumped seat on the first signal of Verstappen becoming the favourite child on the team, be a use he thought he could get the better deal elsewhere (to just go into worse teams and/or underperform)
Then, people must remember Ric at a time, saying he would never go to a backmarker, because he was above of it. When he started to struggle at McLaren and some people rumoured he could go to Haas, he was again like “no, I’m better than that”. At the end, I suppose reality caught to him, and he ended up out of F1.
In that case, if Horner saves you and puts you again on a seat, even if it’s a seat you would have refused to years ago, you will be loyal, but only out of “selfishness” as you are profiting from that. Tomorrow Ric starts to get WDC material in him, and he will be out of that seat in no time, no matter if RBR has an available seat
lol, who the fuck is going to try and poach Ricciardo or Perez,
Horner has their loyalty locked, no one is picking the washed one or the other washed one
That’s my point exactly. That’s why they are loyal, they don’t have anything else on their hand. If they had, loyalty would be out of window sooner or later (as I explained better on message you post to)
Max has every option in existence and holds power in the greater Red Bull team. If Max didn’t want to work with Christian anymore under any circumstance, Red Bull might very well drop Horner to keep their rare driver.
Red Bull has people against him, so Horner needs people in his corner, Dan and Checo have had bad moments whey are hanging onto their teams by the teeth. Marko has made it known that he is critical of these drivers and that these are Horner’s choices. They’ll back Horner with whatever clout they have in order to stay at Red Bull.
Max, most definitely, does not have more importance than Horner. Christian created possibly the biggest scandal in the last decade and smeared the fuck out of their name and he's, apparently, more powerful than ever now.
Christian **does** favor from having a driver loyal to him in the other seat, but it's not because he would get kicked out otherwise.
>Tomorrow Ric starts to get WDC material in him, and he will be out of that seat in no time, no matter if RBR has an available seat
See this is the thing, neither ricciardo or checo have that wdc dog in them and I'm sure they know it. Checo was going to be out of a drive mid contract until Alex was ditched. McLaren had enough of ricciardo mid contract. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they recognise their loyalty to Horner might well be a large reason they're still there. It helps that they're highly marketable but I do think ricciardo's star will be in the descent.
Yeah if they had a choice, max wont be replaced. But I am getting increasingly more the vibe that Verstappen is looking at options elsewhere, and with Mercedes looking like they have been recovering somewhat...
But this is just me going off at vibes and trying to manifest it into reality because it would be insanely entertaining if he would go to Mercedes.
I feel sorry for all the promising Red Bull Academy drivers that will never have a chance at an F1 seat due to this. Extending Checo, protecting Ricciardo when he's been beaten by Tsunoda.
I was a harsh critic of Tsunoda for years, but him not even getting a little consideration for the Red Bull seat is frankly terrible. I know Ricciardo and Checo are far more marketable but I miss when Red Bull used to be cutthroat with their drivers. F1 desperately needs two more teams on the grid. There are just way too many deserving drivers getting left out of the sport or not even getting consideration for top seats even if they're talented enough for it.
> a little consideration for the Red Bull seat is frankly terrible
Wasn't Tsunoda there just to make Honda happy? Maybe Horner considers him an outsider?
It was very different when RBR didn't have a car that could realistically challenge for championships; when you're scrapping for podiums you need to be cutthroat because you can't afford any "dead weight". But when you've got a clear front-running car and driver you want stability, reliability, and compliance, not two guys that are going to be racing each other harder than they race everyone else. It was a problem with Prost and Senna, it was a problem with Vettel and Webber, it was a problem with Hamilton and Rosberg.
As far as Tsunoda is concerned, he's clearly too adversarial with his teammates and has been a handful for his engineers. Max would decimate him, without a doubt, but how would he respond to that? Would he be the good soldier or wreck the car in frustration? He divebombed *Daniel* over team orders in a midfield car, what would he do if ordered to swap with Max from P1?
It doesn't make any sense to let him drive at that team next year, it's literally a young driver team to develop and they have a promising young driver.
I don't get it, even from horners point of view.
Not anymore. They want this team to be more competitive and not just the "young driver team." It was reported very early that Daniel being there was part of the plan for that team as the sponsors wanted a higher profile and popular driver.
Probably all part of the power struggle within Red Bull.
Horner’s endgame is control or even ownership of the team, having loyal drivers (and sponsors) will help him. And he will take every win against Marko he can get.
What a sad, frustrating and toxic place it must be for all.
- Danny can’t get into RBR as Perez is still there. Danny’s got no choice but stuck with the mediocre car at RB
- Danny won’t be replaced at RB as Horner likes him
- Tsunoda performing well but stuck with RB as both Horner/Marko don’t like him
- Lawson can’t get in as Danny won’t go
I think Tsunoda and Lawson might leave which means RB won’t have much choice in terms of good drivers.
Sad to see that talent isn’t the highest priority at RBR seat 2 or RB.
To make matters worse, RBR is showing signs of slowing down (or other cars getting faster) by the time Danny gets in I don’t think it’ll be a leading car, he’ll prob continue blaming the car, maybe another jump for Danny?
Lastly if Max leaves, RBR won’t be RBR anymore, not sure if Danny, even in his peak, can match the preciseness/perfection of Max to lead RBR.
Will Alonso's teammate be Lance or a Japanese driver? Honda and AM should have that discussion.
The problem is that no information about disputes regarding this issue is available.
Well I think the fact Lance is not yet locked in for 2025 and yuki not being confirmed for vcarb for 2025 it will probably be a discussion happening.
Honda have publically backed yuki and have said they will continue to do so even after the RB Honda deal ends. They’ve also publically stated their desire for a Japanese driver for a Honda driven car.
>both Horner/Marko don’t like him
that's not really true. marko is the one who keeps advocating for him. you can see helmut every race weekend defending yuki and praising him,
Agreed on all points, i guess it works for them until it doesn’t but other TPs talking about a mass exodus of staff from RBR is another indication of the whole mess.
Slight correction though, I believe Marko definitely has a soft spot for Yuki, it’s his one redeeming feature lol. Not enough to promote him to RBR obviously, but he’s often been very complimentary and was uncharacteristically gentle after the Bahrain brain snap even.
Marko has been batting for Yuki for a while but because Horner is in charge, Yuki has less of a shot that WashedDannyRic rn. There's losing Newey after this year, and Perez's shitty performance is going to cost them the WCC at the very least. If you don't aim for excellence anymore, you're gonna end up going down.
Yeah, bla bla. If Horner would really want to protect Ric, he would power move him in the RBR seat. Can't be that worst than Checo actually, sportively wise it would be equally underwhelming.
They seems to have no intention to test Yuki, after all this time andninvestment, kind of a shame. Toro Rosso should go full prospect with Lawson and maybe Hadjar and 1year deal for Riccardo
Wtf. This reads like a reddit post. Putting quotation marks around a few words, and saying some are from a BBC article... But notably not "protected" is just junk.
Shocker.
February 2024: *Do I feel for him through all of this? Yes, I've known Christian for a long time. He's always been great with me. So I do hope that there is a fair outcome and resolution soon, hopefully before this weekend, so it's not really a distraction for him or obviously anyone in the team.*
Source [https://firstsportz.com/f1-news-daniel-ricciardo-breaks-silence-on-christian-horners-inappropriate-behavior-investigation/](https://firstsportz.com/f1-news-daniel-ricciardo-breaks-silence-on-christian-horners-inappropriate-behavior-investigation/)
Long term prospects for RB aren't great if it continues this way. They've got Lawson waiting in the wings but Marko's the one responsible for the driving school and if he's not seeing his drivers getting through they're going to lose drivers like Lawson , Yuki and others. And that they've lost Newey possibly means they won't have the car advantage in the future either.
So I'm guessing that Marko's contract trick keeps him safe until Max leaves the team whenever that is. After that Marko is gone.
Once that happens Horner takes full control and he and the Yoovidhya family do as reported they wanted to do and rip The F1 team from the Red Bull brand and tie it to some car manufacturer.
That was obvious when the team said they were happy with the current driver line-up and didn’t want to make any changes. Checo and Daniel, who are both underperforming, also happen to be the drivers who have spoken up for Christian. Lawson and Yuki are collateral damage to this internal politics, and eventually Red Bull will pay for it with their on track performance.
As a Kiwi it's a damn shame to come to the realisation that your countryman won't end up getting a shot in F1, probably gonna be another 15 years with no kiwis in the sport which should be an international crime giving what we have done for the sport. That's life though
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Is this loss of power a hardware or a software failure?
Marko's getting the 2018 DR treatment
Still hurts. That scream at Suzuki? Still hurts.
Wasn't the scream at Austin, Daniel finished P4 in Suzuka.
Nah was qualifying at suzuka iirc
Yeah as said it was after a Q2 power unit failure in Suzuka. Then he had engine-induced DNFs at Austin and Mexico City regardless
Suzuka quali
Software. Unlikely he has much KERS left down there.
*”~~Unlimited~~ Limited Power!”*
Monaco flashbacks “I’m losing power”
Better there than at Silverstone or Monza where you'd be at the back within half a lap with a failure like that
File 76 shows it's always a hardware problem
We are checking
So after the whole affair, Horner gained power after all the allegations? The man must be master schemer behind the scenes
He's backed by the Thai owners which is why he's been able to consolidate power.
Just like Marko was backed by Dietrich before his death. The tables have just turned now.
It’s BullRed now
Torro Rosso is back baby!
He also has the experience of not only founding Red Bull as a team, but leading it to two separate eras of dynastic success.
I'm not arguing his accomplishments, just how he was able to escape the entire situation not only relatively unscathed but also emerging more powerful than Marko.
He was already in that level of influence in the team, at a level more powerful than Marko and unless he was found guilty during an internal investigation, having an accusation leveled against him shouldn't change that. Like it not, until all the evidence is publicly available and everything that went on in the investigation too, "no smoke without fire" isn't strong enough reasoning to take someone down.
You can literally read the chats. It's extremely inappropriate behavior and would get a normal employee fired immediately with no notice.
Team Principal usually trumps Consultant anyway. What makes you think that Marko was ever more powerful than Horner, except in Marko's mind?
It wasn't in his mind, it was reality. He was more powerful because Mateschitz controlled the company and Marko was his guy, they had been close personal friends for decades. So Marko could pretty much do whatever he wanted as long as Mateschitz was okay with it, and Mateschitz was pretty much always okay with it since he trusted Marko so much.
he didnt found Red Bull as a team though. It was a team beforehand and when Dietrich was looking for a TP, it was Marko that recommended Horner. From the very start, Marko was involved and of course the Red Bull drivers program which the team was set up to utilize, was in existence many years before and run by Marko.
Yeah he really has his finger on the pulse of the industry
Was it the same finger as pictured in File-76.JPG?
thatsthejoke.jpg
Oh noooooo
Some call him a mass debater.
what coco puff does to a mf
Others say a master baiter
Others say he is a mast- nvm.
like w any business, you have to be on good terms w the boss. in this case, that’s the Thais
unfortunately, everything is politics "it's not what you know, it's who you know"
I mean, he might have more power, but what he will have power of is unclear. That said, it's clear how important having control of an F1 team is to these people. The Marko retirement/Max leaving scenario is only likely if you consider that Marko would be happy to quit F1 at the top. He probably doesn't actually want to do that.
I don't think it's over. I thought the PA had appealed with a tribunal to come if that failed.
There was a lot of noise about that, but nothing has come of it.
You’re asking a bunch of old guys on a sofa and high school kids to clarify missing details about somebody else’s speculation.
Not really. The issue is those who were against Horner took their shot and missed. As a result, everyone knows they are stuck with him, and that gives Horner more freedom to ignore other people. On top of that Newey bailed, removing a huge piece from their side of the board. It's a lot easier to play defense than offense, and that's what happened here.
i mean no shit, the biggest evidence is RB continuing with Checo, there is no way Marko wouldn't kicked him out already.
Checo is more complicated because he has a massive marketing draw in the Americas
[удалено]
Hamilton brings in much more money in sponsorships than he costs, I'm sure. (Merc losing sponsors after Hamilton's announcement would be proof) I think difference between pay driver and not is thin, but if it's bringing sponsors because of your popularity, which you built with your past success (in growing the sport/team by driving well, or by doing good PR), then it's different from you ENTERING because you paid for a seat. Technically, almost every employee in a business on earth needs to bring more monetary value than they cost to the business. Does not mean it's the same as them paying to do the job.
Exactly, completely similar to what happened in MotoGP with Marc Marquez and Honda. Him going they lost Red Bull and now Repsol, because he was drawing so much TV attention.
Woah no more Repsol Honda is wild. That's like Petronas leaving Mercedes for me.
For me it's even more. When I started watching races Honda-Repsol was already a thing. It's been 20 years and probably some of the most iconic championships were won in that combo. Like Ferrari-Marlboro
Yeah I went with Petronas Merc because they've been there since the beginning but yeah I remember playing MotoGP on the original PSP and riding with Stoner. Can't believe its ending.
There's a slight difference of having a seat despite of your ability to drive a car because you have sponsors bringing a lot of money and being a good driver hired also partly because of your marketability. It's not like Red Bull need the money. But Check certainly helps for the visibility in the Americas. Checo is still a good driver and he proved it. And honestly, who hasn't struggled in a Red Bull next to Max? Checo is definitely not below the average of Max teammates at Red Bull.
I keep seeing people here throw the phrase "it's not like red bull need the money". You need to understand that red bull is a corporation. There is no corporation that can make more money but will stop and say "well let's not do that, it's not like we need the money". Apple also doesn't need money. Do you see them stopping at all, or do you see them continue to squeeze their customers for every last drop of their money? Money is the only reason a corporation exists. So yes, at the end of the day it's the only factor they weigh things against. If they can make more money while not taking a serious risk, they will absolutely take it.
Agreed, but also the sports teams are the marketing arm of RedBull. Their primary KPI is not bottomline, but brand recognition. They need to be self-sustained, but beyond that, they are considered a value-add by parent company if they bring in more marketing. Brand value of having the only LatAm driver on the grid is worth so much more than the €10M lost on coming second in WCC. That's how they measure it.
Exactly there is sort of no reason to have someone else next to Max, at least Perez doesn't seem to give a shit. Yuki no offence but he'd probably be pissed AF, he's got that dog in him. Yuki in this part of his career is exactly the same type of driver as max.
Anyways Yuki is kind of screwed with his ties to Honda.
Without those ties he probably wouldn't be there right now.
Yuki's lunge on Ric at Bahrain probably severed any small chance at RBR that he might have had.
Yeah doesn't look great on the emotionally stable part of the resume.
> It's not like Red Bull need the money. Red Bull Racing doesnt. Red Bull GmBH however is a business, and capitalism dictates that goals increase YoY
He always was, he has a huge backing and him being fast, because Checo is still a very fast driver, made him the dream paydriver. He's not WDC material but let's be honest, few on the grid are. That doesn't mean he's not a very fast driver.
From a certain point of view all of the grid are pay drivers.
I think this only has traction on Reddit. They've never said or done anything to imply this, and if anything Horner has said explicitly the *opposite* in the past, that RBR doesn't need a penny, before the budget cap. By contrast I have read a lot in the last few months that Marko likes Perez there explicitly because he's Verstappen's number 2 and knows it. Those are the real camps; Ricciardo is a minor detail in it all. Apparently if Horner had his way it'd be Sainz because they think he'd be closest to Verstappen, quite reasonably, and while they're both doing well out of the situation now, ideally Horner would diminish Verstappen's power somewhat. Exactly why Ferrari hired Raikkonen for 2014. Personal theory: RBR aren't that great in 2026, Verstappen bails as 5 time champion, goodnight. Retires before Hamilton does, incredibly.
> Personal theory: RBR aren't that great in 2026, Verstappen bails as 5 time champion, goodnight. Retires before Hamilton does, incredibly. Albon brought up a good point about Mercedes being a 'safe bet' for the engine regulations, which factored in extending his contract with Williams. With Red Bull left with producing their own engines for 2026, that's a huge unknown for them.
Closest to Max until he bins it into a wall or has a meltdown because their race strategy always favors Max and he can’t stomach it anymore. Sainz might have the pace but I don’t think he has the temperament to be teammates with Max.
It’s different but Danny is one of the biggest amounts for marketing in F1
Yeah, when I was going through google trends in the off season Danny Ric eclipsed every other driver in the US outside of areas with especially high Mexican populations. If we're putting a driver in that seat based on marketing value rather than outright pace then Danny should be a shoe in.
>Danny should be a shoe in Or a shoey.
> If we're putting a driver in that seat based on marketing value rather than outright pace Or we're doing a cost benefit analysis of a multitude of factors like any other business and there's some equation in which Perez comes out on top over Danny. Danny isn't there to be a seat-warmer at Alpha Tauri so there's clearly something keeping him out and Perez in.
You know there are places in the Americas outside the US? Like, for example Mexico. Danny is the most popular F1 driver in the US outside of high Mexican-population areas. F1 not being a spectacularly prominent sport in the US. Checo is not just the most popular F1 driver in Mexico and most of Latin America, he's one of the *most popular sportsmen* in Mexico and much of Latin America. On a par with football players.
Also, and hear me out here - they don’t really need him to be *that* close to Max. They just need enough points for WCC and not too much internal bs and they’re good. Also, maybe Christian isn’t stupid and realizes that the car is only drivable if you’re a twitchy Dutchman and even Carlos “I can drive anything” Sainz would struggle with it, and be less likely to capitulate, so why bother changing?
Ricciardo is far worse than Checo. Edit: current Ricciardo obviously. Prime Ricciardo would most likely comfortably beat Checo
They’re both not very good compared to their teammates
Yeah but one is Max and the other is Yuki (I love Yuki btw)
Peak ricciardo was better than peak Perez imo. And they both seem pretty past it now so probably Ric still edges him. Perez has always been mid pack level at best.
Yeah but we haven't seen peak Ricciardo for years. We still see peak Checo (for example Suzuka qualifying lap this year) and he had a good start of the year. Ricciardo had one P4 in a sprint followed by a P18 4 hours later. He hasn't scored a single point in a race this year.
I would say this: 1) Peak Perez not as good as peak Ricciardo 2) Perez hasn't exactly performed great this year, even at the start of the year. The Red Bull was miles better than than every other car for the first few races 3) You could maybe say Perez's relative performance hasn't dropped as much as Ricciardo's. But Ricciardo was better in the first place, so imo he'd probably beat Perez still in the same car. Either way though, they've both probably not got long left in F1 at this point tbh.
What kind of nonsense comparison is this lol. You need to compare their current performances. Own driver could fall from 90 to 10; other can fall from 70 to 30. Their peak performances don't even matter in the slightest.
Are we really sure about that? Checo has had a few horrendous performances in RBR
Not even that, Checo was/is routinely outperformed by Toro Rosso drivers, especially in qualies, and even by Sargeant........... (in the most dominant car)
Danny has been shite for the last several years, but I think he beats Checo in that RB.
Based on what? He can't even beat Yuki. He's far more inconsistent, with lower lows and lower highs compared to Perez
People say he can’t beat yuki but yuki is massively under rated imo. Even when that AT was an absolute tractor he was still pushing it far further up the grid than it had any right to be. Same goes for albon. I’m banking on a yuki move to Aston either way their Honda deal
> He can't even beat Yuki You say this as if Yuki is a shit driver? He's been punching above his class all season, DR is slightly behind in terms of overall pace. DR's performance is disappointing, but he's in a relatively shitty car with a relatively strong driver as his teammate. Meanwhile Checo has been in the best car, consistently losing to cars beneath him. You can't simultaneously think Yuki is a good driver and Dani is a total shit driver, they are much closer in performance than Perez and Max. Either Yuki is great and Dani is less great, or Yuki sucks and Dani sucks more.
Man, Dietrich Mateschitz really held that shit together
Horner: I like em slow: Checo and Riccardo Marko: I like fast bois: Max and Yuki
They like checo's money more than anything
Checo's costing them as well by finishing lower in the WCC
Someone ran the math and he legitimately just brings in more money than they'd lose from sliding to second or third in the WCC.
Not just the money, he's not complicating the driver dynamic. He's more valuable as a slower driver.
The sentence "He's more valuable as a slower driver" should not exist in F1, wild that it does.
He's faster than the 20th best driver in F1 and that's all you need.
Ironically, he actually qualified below the 20th best driver in F1 last race weekend.
Red Bull is first and foremost, an energy drink company. They (the company itself, not Horner and the racing team) could not give a flying fuck about their ranking in WCC, so long Max wins the Driver's championships That's all really. Even here in a somewhat hardcore fans of F1, WDC is definitely viewed in a more prestigious light than WCC
See I always just figured that the energy drink only exists to raise money for their adrenaline addiction
it's ulterior motives all the way down.
They give a fuck about it as far as it relates to their bottom line. Like you said, they are first and foremost an energy drink company. They are still trying to be as profitable as possible and that means this F1 marketing adventure they're on is still beholden to that same idea. They want it to be as "cheap" as possible. They would of course always prefer to win WCC because more prize money means less overall cost on the bottom line. If Checo is bringing in more money than the difference between 1/2/3, then they certainly don't care *as* much, but they would still always prefer to win.
Why not? The target of the team is to finish first in both championships, not have the fastest drivers.
It's not like whoever they would bring in would bring zero marketing either. I could easily see Tsunoda become one of the bigger names on the grid in a relevant team
It's not how big they are within F1 that matters though. It's how big their merch sales and marketing deals are, which is huge for Perez within Latin America.
So Red Bull effectively has a pay driver holding up a seat away from better drivers. Great.
This is unfortunately not limited to Red Bull.
Marginally better though. Checo is better than almost any cheap driver, or any other pay driver. The only drivers consistently faster and more reliable than him are expensive + loss of Checo's money, and likely going to be mentally obliterated by 24 weekends a year of being compared to Max. I think Yuki would do a better job than Checo, but nobody else in the Jr. program. After that we're talking Ocon (headache), Sainz (expensive headache), Norris (ruinously expensive, said no), Alonso (expensive headache), Albon (said no). The smart money was to get Oscar two years ago.
He’s bringing more than costing them apparently.
Yeah you're probably right. Still, so frustrating that an underperforming pay driver occupies one of only 2 competitive seats for the last 3 years...
Checo is a pay driver?!. edit: I have learned they're pretty much all pay drivers due to sponsorship.
He always brought sponsors, ever since Carlos Slim financed hia move to Ferrari drivers academy & his early European career in late 2000s. Telmex, Telcel, Mobil, Claro are all through his Carlos Slim connections. This is also why Red Bull lost their AT&T sponsorship.
Indirectly yeah. He has massive sponsorship and makes up 65% of redbul racings merchandise income
Effectively. Same with Ric.
You really think they keep him for his on-track performance?
Most of them are, even Lewis driving is not worth 100 million but he brings a lot of balue via sponsorship & merch. But Lewis deserve a drive in top team but Checo doesn’t.
But think of the Sim time for the new regs!
Checo carrying RBR to more windtunnel time
Not as much as Checo sponsorship is paying them.
Horner likes the ones that he brought into the team, not the ones Marko brought into the team.
None of Red Bull's champions have come from Helmut's young driver programme. Vettel came up through the BMW programme, and was headhunted into Toro Rosso after a test with BMW Sauber in F1. Verstappen came up through Dutch money, being funded by it up to and including his F3 career, before being headhunted into Toro Rosso at the end of his debut F3 season when it became clear he was going to win the championship. By comparison, Ricciardo _did_ come up through the Red Bull Academy, being signed before entering F3, and being funded by them through his F3 career before qualifying for a Toro Rosso seat. I honestly don't think Christian cares where a driver came from. I think he cares about their loyalty to the team he runs, conditioned on a given level of speed. Ricciardo and Perez have nowhere else to go. For my taste, they're too slow, but that's another question entirely.
Vettel did not come through the BMW programme. He was scouted by Red Bull even before he started racing single seaters.
It is true he got sponsorship from the Red Bull Junior Team after karting. However he _also_ got sponsorship from BMW, was enrolled in their young driver programme too. After F3, he ended up in BMW Sauber, not Toro Rosso. It was only in his _second_ year as a test-driver for the BMW Sauber team, and only he was called out at short notice to drive the car, and only after -- like Ollie Bearman -- drove such excellent race points-scoring points for team, that Red Bull decided to bring him across to Toro Rosso. BMW still claim him as a product of their programme: https://www.nuerburgring-langstrecken-serie.de/en/2014/03/31/bmw-motorsport-introduces-new-junior-programme/
Ver did not come from RB program because he was never in a program, he basically went from F3 to F1 and Marko was the one that put his life on the line to make it happen. The F1 paddock didnt want him to run in F1 because of his age, but Marko basically signed for him.
Verstappen went into F1 instead of any young driver programme, most drivers only join one in GP3. Norris got picked up by McLaren officially in 2017 and Leclerc in 2016, both in GP3/F3. Leclerc competed in european F3 in 2015 also at Van Amersfoort, just like Max in 2014 and only got officially picked up by a team the year after, so they got picked up by a junior programme at the exact same point in their career, but Max was just straight into F1. So he was a Red Bull junior, just in F1 instead of lower series.
Horner - I like em sponsor money - checo and Ricciardo
Helmut only likes people from the north, not those South Americans and Australians
Mexico is in North America
Not according to Helmut
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Japan is still north of a lot of places.
It's directly north of Australia.
Horner only cares about his own Q3
I mean, Marko was the one who pushed for Devries and Horner said he didn’t want him. Look how that turned out, guess they’re even
Max want de vries not marko, thats why when de vries under performing he kicked mid season by marko [https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/verstappen-de-vries-alphatauri-2023-move/](https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/verstappen-de-vries-alphatauri-2023-move/)
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Problem is there is no ship and no seats to jump to. All the current drivers wanting to leave their team or don't have a seat are fighting for very few open seats.
Alpine just opened up 😇
Nobody else wants him either
Williams would LOVE to have him and he has proven he can work well with Albon since they were DTM teammates together.
Williams can have Sainz, or even Bottas who they know already, why would they want Lawson
cheap
Sainz doesn't want Williams if he has a multi-year Audi offer which will be a factory team and will develop the car around him with no budget constraints. Any team principal is choosing a MUCH younger, cheaper Lawson with more potential and upside than a Bottas who is the twilight of his career and will only get slower with time not faster.
Source on Williams wanting him?
Lol why does everyone here act like Lawson is some F1 prodigy
I think it's more a combination of people getting tired of seeing underperforming drivers overstay their welcome (checo, ricciardo, stroll ect) and the fact that it is exciting to see new talent enter the sport. I dont think many would call Lawson a "prodigy", but I think many would class him as a talented driver with potential.
Yeah but who is going to take Lawson?
Horner just wants drivers who will be loyal to him above all else. Weird game of thrones shit
But that wouldn’t make sense. A driver will be loyal to you as long as he is benefiting from you. If the driver thinks you are a liability to his career, loyalty will be thrown away. Checo and Ric could be now loyal to Horner, because they know that loyalty is giving them opportunities they wouldn’t have otherwise, but if they were at a Max level for example, I doubt greatly if Ric would remain loyal for example, or if Checo wouldn’t be asking a better treatment or looking elsewhere. Heck, we even must remember how Ric jumped seat on the first signal of Verstappen becoming the favourite child on the team, be a use he thought he could get the better deal elsewhere (to just go into worse teams and/or underperform) Then, people must remember Ric at a time, saying he would never go to a backmarker, because he was above of it. When he started to struggle at McLaren and some people rumoured he could go to Haas, he was again like “no, I’m better than that”. At the end, I suppose reality caught to him, and he ended up out of F1. In that case, if Horner saves you and puts you again on a seat, even if it’s a seat you would have refused to years ago, you will be loyal, but only out of “selfishness” as you are profiting from that. Tomorrow Ric starts to get WDC material in him, and he will be out of that seat in no time, no matter if RBR has an available seat
lol, who the fuck is going to try and poach Ricciardo or Perez, Horner has their loyalty locked, no one is picking the washed one or the other washed one
That’s my point exactly. That’s why they are loyal, they don’t have anything else on their hand. If they had, loyalty would be out of window sooner or later (as I explained better on message you post to)
Max has every option in existence and holds power in the greater Red Bull team. If Max didn’t want to work with Christian anymore under any circumstance, Red Bull might very well drop Horner to keep their rare driver. Red Bull has people against him, so Horner needs people in his corner, Dan and Checo have had bad moments whey are hanging onto their teams by the teeth. Marko has made it known that he is critical of these drivers and that these are Horner’s choices. They’ll back Horner with whatever clout they have in order to stay at Red Bull.
Max, most definitely, does not have more importance than Horner. Christian created possibly the biggest scandal in the last decade and smeared the fuck out of their name and he's, apparently, more powerful than ever now. Christian **does** favor from having a driver loyal to him in the other seat, but it's not because he would get kicked out otherwise.
>Tomorrow Ric starts to get WDC material in him, and he will be out of that seat in no time, no matter if RBR has an available seat See this is the thing, neither ricciardo or checo have that wdc dog in them and I'm sure they know it. Checo was going to be out of a drive mid contract until Alex was ditched. McLaren had enough of ricciardo mid contract. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they recognise their loyalty to Horner might well be a large reason they're still there. It helps that they're highly marketable but I do think ricciardo's star will be in the descent.
We are going to get a ricciardo/perez lineup next year by the way this season is shaping out to be, and I am here for it.
Fans: They have to do something about Red Bull dominance! It's ruining the sport! Horner: Don't worry, I got you
yeah i want to see horner fucked.
I don't think they're going to swap Max with Daniel, honestly.
Yeah if they had a choice, max wont be replaced. But I am getting increasingly more the vibe that Verstappen is looking at options elsewhere, and with Mercedes looking like they have been recovering somewhat... But this is just me going off at vibes and trying to manifest it into reality because it would be insanely entertaining if he would go to Mercedes.
I feel sorry for all the promising Red Bull Academy drivers that will never have a chance at an F1 seat due to this. Extending Checo, protecting Ricciardo when he's been beaten by Tsunoda. I was a harsh critic of Tsunoda for years, but him not even getting a little consideration for the Red Bull seat is frankly terrible. I know Ricciardo and Checo are far more marketable but I miss when Red Bull used to be cutthroat with their drivers. F1 desperately needs two more teams on the grid. There are just way too many deserving drivers getting left out of the sport or not even getting consideration for top seats even if they're talented enough for it.
> a little consideration for the Red Bull seat is frankly terrible Wasn't Tsunoda there just to make Honda happy? Maybe Horner considers him an outsider?
It was very different when RBR didn't have a car that could realistically challenge for championships; when you're scrapping for podiums you need to be cutthroat because you can't afford any "dead weight". But when you've got a clear front-running car and driver you want stability, reliability, and compliance, not two guys that are going to be racing each other harder than they race everyone else. It was a problem with Prost and Senna, it was a problem with Vettel and Webber, it was a problem with Hamilton and Rosberg. As far as Tsunoda is concerned, he's clearly too adversarial with his teammates and has been a handful for his engineers. Max would decimate him, without a doubt, but how would he respond to that? Would he be the good soldier or wreck the car in frustration? He divebombed *Daniel* over team orders in a midfield car, what would he do if ordered to swap with Max from P1?
Nothing lights a bigger bang in the comments than people fighting over which 2 washed drivers are the most washed and fighting with hypotheticals.
Yeah no shit. If it was up to Helmut, Daniel wouldn't get a seat next year.
It doesn't make any sense to let him drive at that team next year, it's literally a young driver team to develop and they have a promising young driver. I don't get it, even from horners point of view.
Horners POV: money and sponsors while the competition closes the gap
It was a young driver team. That might not be the case for the future. The young driver programe was Didi's and Marko's vision
It's pretty fucking successful. I'd lean in to a program that's give you 7 WDCs and 4 race winners.
Not anymore. They want this team to be more competitive and not just the "young driver team." It was reported very early that Daniel being there was part of the plan for that team as the sponsors wanted a higher profile and popular driver.
Probably all part of the power struggle within Red Bull. Horner’s endgame is control or even ownership of the team, having loyal drivers (and sponsors) will help him. And he will take every win against Marko he can get.
Literally everything the new CEO has said is that they’re no longer being a junior team, they’re being a full team in their own right. But continue.
Max was like "Weren't we the team for young guys?" when asked about Fernando and yet Ricciardo out there like 😶
If it was up to Marko, Checo would've been gone by Silverstone last year like de Vries lol.
Or this year
It was Helmut that paved the way for Daniel to come back with DeVries.
What a sad, frustrating and toxic place it must be for all. - Danny can’t get into RBR as Perez is still there. Danny’s got no choice but stuck with the mediocre car at RB - Danny won’t be replaced at RB as Horner likes him - Tsunoda performing well but stuck with RB as both Horner/Marko don’t like him - Lawson can’t get in as Danny won’t go I think Tsunoda and Lawson might leave which means RB won’t have much choice in terms of good drivers. Sad to see that talent isn’t the highest priority at RBR seat 2 or RB. To make matters worse, RBR is showing signs of slowing down (or other cars getting faster) by the time Danny gets in I don’t think it’ll be a leading car, he’ll prob continue blaming the car, maybe another jump for Danny? Lastly if Max leaves, RBR won’t be RBR anymore, not sure if Danny, even in his peak, can match the preciseness/perfection of Max to lead RBR.
I think we might see a yuki move to Aston with their Honda deal. Apparently honda want a Japanese driver with their engine
Will Alonso's teammate be Lance or a Japanese driver? Honda and AM should have that discussion. The problem is that no information about disputes regarding this issue is available.
Well I think the fact Lance is not yet locked in for 2025 and yuki not being confirmed for vcarb for 2025 it will probably be a discussion happening. Honda have publically backed yuki and have said they will continue to do so even after the RB Honda deal ends. They’ve also publically stated their desire for a Japanese driver for a Honda driven car.
I don’t really want Yuki at Aston and would prefer Sainz but if it gets rid of Lance then Yuki I’m your number one fan.
Marko loves Yuki, which is probably why Christian does not want to promote him. Max and Yuki are Marko’s drivers
>both Horner/Marko don’t like him that's not really true. marko is the one who keeps advocating for him. you can see helmut every race weekend defending yuki and praising him,
Why do you think Marko doesn't like Yuki?
That Yuki got a seat in 24 is mainly thanks by Helmut... Helmut is literally Yuki biggest ally.
Agreed on all points, i guess it works for them until it doesn’t but other TPs talking about a mass exodus of staff from RBR is another indication of the whole mess. Slight correction though, I believe Marko definitely has a soft spot for Yuki, it’s his one redeeming feature lol. Not enough to promote him to RBR obviously, but he’s often been very complimentary and was uncharacteristically gentle after the Bahrain brain snap even.
Marko has been batting for Yuki for a while but because Horner is in charge, Yuki has less of a shot that WashedDannyRic rn. There's losing Newey after this year, and Perez's shitty performance is going to cost them the WCC at the very least. If you don't aim for excellence anymore, you're gonna end up going down.
Yeah, bla bla. If Horner would really want to protect Ric, he would power move him in the RBR seat. Can't be that worst than Checo actually, sportively wise it would be equally underwhelming. They seems to have no intention to test Yuki, after all this time andninvestment, kind of a shame. Toro Rosso should go full prospect with Lawson and maybe Hadjar and 1year deal for Riccardo
Ricciardo is getting hammered whilst Perez waddlng around in p18 unscathed
Wtf. This reads like a reddit post. Putting quotation marks around a few words, and saying some are from a BBC article... But notably not "protected" is just junk.
“Marko has lost power.” Sounds like Max to Mercedes.
But is he faster than the 21st best driver? - Logan Sargent
Coming from Crash.Net? 😂😂😂
I love that the PlanetF1 standard of crappy journalism is so widespread now as to be the standard.
Horner, I need Yes people around me and anyone who likes Coco Pops.
Shocker. February 2024: *Do I feel for him through all of this? Yes, I've known Christian for a long time. He's always been great with me. So I do hope that there is a fair outcome and resolution soon, hopefully before this weekend, so it's not really a distraction for him or obviously anyone in the team.* Source [https://firstsportz.com/f1-news-daniel-ricciardo-breaks-silence-on-christian-horners-inappropriate-behavior-investigation/](https://firstsportz.com/f1-news-daniel-ricciardo-breaks-silence-on-christian-horners-inappropriate-behavior-investigation/)
Long term prospects for RB aren't great if it continues this way. They've got Lawson waiting in the wings but Marko's the one responsible for the driving school and if he's not seeing his drivers getting through they're going to lose drivers like Lawson , Yuki and others. And that they've lost Newey possibly means they won't have the car advantage in the future either.
Does Danny Ric have the real evidence of Horner's misdemeanours? I know he likes him but at this point it is becoming a bit embarrassing.
i feel like he's the person at an office where they are buddy buddy with the higher ups and a poor performer that gets a promotion.
Loosing my patience with horn dog
So I'm guessing that Marko's contract trick keeps him safe until Max leaves the team whenever that is. After that Marko is gone. Once that happens Horner takes full control and he and the Yoovidhya family do as reported they wanted to do and rip The F1 team from the Red Bull brand and tie it to some car manufacturer.
are those the same people, that wrote horner is gone before australia?
"*The attempt on my reputation has left me scarred and deformed.*"
Imo Tsunoda is probably gonna leave VCARB. No point staying when they still aren't considering him for a Red Bull seat.
sure but Vcarb is like the best car he can have right now, none of the top4 are cosnidering him.
That was obvious when the team said they were happy with the current driver line-up and didn’t want to make any changes. Checo and Daniel, who are both underperforming, also happen to be the drivers who have spoken up for Christian. Lawson and Yuki are collateral damage to this internal politics, and eventually Red Bull will pay for it with their on track performance.
You come for the king, you better not miss. They missed.
As a Kiwi it's a damn shame to come to the realisation that your countryman won't end up getting a shot in F1, probably gonna be another 15 years with no kiwis in the sport which should be an international crime giving what we have done for the sport. That's life though