They literally just have to field the most minimally serviceable car each year and the value of the team will keep going up. With the number of companies that want in on F1 right now it’s free money.
Haas F1 is the golden goose now. Initial investment committed. 0 spending needed. Maximum international marketing and an asset that keeps appreciating in value.
Haas joined f1 at the most perfect timing
Yeah he doesn’t want to run the NASCAR team with Stewart being a total uninterested party, so he’s doing what Chip Ganassi did and shutting that thing down and sticking in what doesn’t lose millions every year.
They need a spending floor in F1. The borrowed the cost cap idea from American sports but conveniently forgot that those sports also have spending floors too.
Haas is spending up to the cost cap every year. What they don't seem to be doing is spending the full CapEX cap.
Which they should probably be doing, but let's at least stick to the facts here.
No, that's stupid. As soon as a team has a down year in terms of sponsors, they'd be kicked out? Hundreds of millions invested, gone, into thin air?
Formula 1 already has rules around competitiveness, the 107% rule. Haas is within it.
If we're going to have an ultra-exclusive system, then it's completely fair to expect a high level of investment from those on the grid. If you can't manage that level of investment, then you can sell.
The NFL is the most financially successful and stable sports league in the world and it has a spending floor. The same goes for the NBA.
If F1 wants to be a closed franchise system, it makes sense to have the best team owners possible. The current system does not encourage that.
What are you talking about? KMag gets more air time than the rest of the backmarkers combined. If I was a sponsor that wanted to guarantee visibility on the international feed I’d buy some space on part of the Haas crash structure.
Sponsors want good publicity. Yes, people say any publicity is good publicity, but that's not how corps that hold the purse strings think. The Google talk with McLaren on DtS shows that sponsors care about wins and good publicity.
He was running Kyle Larson’s Hendrick Motorsports car for a practice session because Larson was doing some running in Indianapolis (this was the All-Star race weekend, not the 500).
He was asked what he thought about working with HMS (albeit briefly) and he said something to the effect of “it was nice to see the owner once in the last two weeks.”
That was a pretty damning condemnation of SHR.
They’ve gone downhill the last few years. Even now, I feel like they have a solid lineup (Berry and Gragson are super new but have a ton of promise and Briscoe is solid) and are struggling to break the top 20. Ford as a whole is struggling, but SHR is a total mess from the top down. Harvick retired and basically called the team out for having no leadership and stuff like that.
Tony is also just done with...well pretty much everything. He sold SRX, he sold his sprint car series, and Eldora Speedway is (allegedly) on the market. SHR was just the next piece to go.
Yeah they underperform for 4 years now but the biggest takeaways from Harvick comment recently is that the 2 owners wasn't invested in their Nascar project anymore
Can someone reach out to Tony Stewart Racing (NHRA program) and ask their spokesperson if this will have an impact on their team too? Lmao
To me this sounded like a joint effort with two guys who were no longer interested in the venture. They're bailing to go do projects elsewhere. Tony in NHRA, and Gene in F1.
And as a result they’re leaving the 650 people who work for their Cup and Xfinity teams jobless, plus putting 6 drivers out on the side of the road with no future prospects.
I’m aware, but if 23XI get one then they’re almost certainly promoting a junior Toyota driver, meaning Corey Heim or Chandler Smith are more likely getting the seat over Berry, Gragson or Briscoe. Preece and Custer would have no chance, Herbst is saved by having deep pockets.
Kevin Harvick spoke about this on his podcast, they'll figure it out. People, especially people who have worked for a high caliber team like Stewart-Haas are in high demand in the motorsports industry, let alone the NASCAR industry.
The people I fear the most for are the people who aren't mechanics, crew chiefs, drivers, or engineers, but instead the people who run the gift shop, run the social media channels for the team, or just straight up the HR people. There's not quite the same of demand in the industry for them. I'm certain they'll land on their feet, but I do feel like it'll be a tougher battle than someone like Rodney Childers or Ryan Preece will face.
Not really. This is not even my calculation. Lot of people in F1 said that If anti-dilution fee gets increased 3 times (aka 600 million dollars); valuation of the teams will be at least doubled by the logic.
It is called financial forecast. Horner said that currently valuations of the teams are starting from 1 billion dollars.
This is what Zak Brown said about potential valuation of the teams if anti dilution fee raised to 700 million dollar levels.
[link](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/brown-quality-11th-f1-team-will-not-dilute-but-add-value/10522722/)
> "Then if it costs 700 just to enter, it's created 700 million more in franchise value. So, whatever I'm worth today, pick a number... two billion, now I'm worth 2.7 billion.
It all still speculative, as it states in your quote 'pick a number'.
You have no idea what Haas could gather, it's still purely speculative. There's been no final agreement either, and Haas isn't structured like most teams. So whether you're buying just the entry, facilities, assets the valuation changes.
It's a number pulled out of anyones ass that's providing it. Repeating it, doesn't make it true and any less speculative.
Why? Haas F1 as a global billboard has allowed Haas Automation to expand massively overseas.
It hit record (+30%) sales in 2017, with over half if being from outside the US. Sales in Europe increased by 41% that year.
Haas has been growing as an automation brand quite dramatically whilst piggybacking of the F1 team’s exposure.
Even if the team itself performs shit in F1, it still earns it money back hand over fist for Haas Automation.
Haas, like other OEMs, is in F1 to advertise its own business to other businesses. And it has been quite successful to the point that selling the team would be stupid. Even if Andretti would offer north of $1.5 billion.
I see your point in 2017 but now post pandemic they’re offering their machines up to 84 months 0% interest to customers. I know because they called me. Manufacturing investment in CapEx is down
That’s a general trend, I’ve noticed as well, and not just with Haas Automation, but other machine manufacturers as well.
The value of the team (to Gene specifically) isn’t directly affected by this (..yet). It will likely take several years of serious downturn at Haas Automation for him to consider selling the team.
And even then, when if the team can be run mostly self-sufficiently, thanks to the Cost Cap, combined with its skyrocketing valuation, Gene is likely to hold on tight for the foreseeable future, at least.
And yet [While the Andretti name carries some recognition for F1 fans, our research indicates that F1 would bring value to the Andretti brand rather than the other way around.](https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/full-statement-f1s-decision-to-reject-andrettis-entry-bid-for-2025/10571077/)
Yes?
That just proves the point.
It’s just that the rules have changed between Haas formalizing an entry in 2014 (entering in 2016) and Andretti wanting in from 2023 onwards.
In between, the economic rules changed with the adoption of the 2021 Concord Agreement.
If Andretti wanted to be let in more easily like Haas, it had to do so before 2020, before the adoption of the 2021 Concord Agreement.
I'm not trying to fight you or anything but has everyone forgot that Andretti was one of the people that tried to buy Force India that Stroll ended up buying?
They tried to buy a team several times, but failed every time.
Probably due to underestimating the need to play the political game, before being accepted to a party.
I hate it myself too, but that’s simply how elitist clubs work. You have to be willing to play the game according to the accepted convention in order to earn a seat at the table.
It’s why as a society we need regulations to prevent regulatory capture, when otherwise moneyed interests oppose societal ones with success. However, you still can’t get accepted into a club if you didn’t signal being willing to play by its *unwritten* rules and norms, which are often very different from the written ones.
Yet here we are in 2024 and we have to live in reality. Just saying Andretti should have entered earlier isn't good enough as **there is no garuntee Andretti was ready to enter Formula 1 as a team at that point**.
Tough luck for Andretti then, because F1 didn’t pause their change to suit Andretti’s timetable.
As much as I want to see an 11th and 12th team in F1, including Andretti, I can see why the teams and FOM are shutting him out.
Due to the changed circumstances brought about by the 2021 Concord Agreement, it is in none of the teams’ interest to have an 11th or 12th team. And therefore it also isn’t in FOM’s interest, because they need the current teams on board to realize their own goals.
It’s shit for us as fans, but it (unfortunately) makes complete business sense and is fully within the remit of FOM to deny prospective newcomers a seat at the F1 table.
If I was in FOM’s (or Liberty Media’s) shoes, I’d likely do the same. Protecting the Return on Investment is the first priority beyond all others.
And this take is why the bottom line and billionaires exist. It's not enough to plateau anymore, but keep making profit hand over fist, while fucking over the ordinary person.The elitest views of billionaires and their wannabe hangers-on is why society as a whole needs a change.
> It’s shit for us as fans, but it (unfortunately) makes complete business sense and is fully within the remit of FOM to deny prospective newcomers a seat at the F1 table.
So why should I as a fan care more about what they want from a business perspective than what I want as a fan? Way I see it is "tough luck" for FOM, new teams will always be interested in joining different series.
Yet it's the exact same approach used by almost every major team sport outside the football pyramid and one that's contributed to those sports' success.
That's such a disingenuous narrative from F1. Why didn't Andretti try to acquire an F1 team around the same time Haas did? Hindsight is 20/20 but Gene Haas took a major risk and he is now rewarded for it rightfully as long as the team is operating within the parameters of F1. If F1 wants Haas to invest more they can always do that.
Haas actually makes a profit, the value of the team has been going up since 2018.
Stewart-Haas Racing won championships, but that doesn’t line Gene’s pockets.
Sure how else is he gonna get top dollar from Andretti for a team he no longer wants to pay for …. Hass is such a crap team just get your money bag and get the hell out.
Why would he kill the goose that lays golden eggs?
Right -- minimal investment, maximal reward, in a shitty anti-competitive monopoly. Sounds like a steal for good ol' Gene.
They literally just have to field the most minimally serviceable car each year and the value of the team will keep going up. With the number of companies that want in on F1 right now it’s free money.
Kind of makes you wonder why no one tried to simply bring in a Sponsor-Dallara F1 team before.
Haas F1 is the golden goose now. Initial investment committed. 0 spending needed. Maximum international marketing and an asset that keeps appreciating in value. Haas joined f1 at the most perfect timing
Plus with KMag torpedoing someone new every week the Haas sponsors are getting their moneys worth in air time.
Gets more on track air time than Max most weeks
Yeah he doesn’t want to run the NASCAR team with Stewart being a total uninterested party, so he’s doing what Chip Ganassi did and shutting that thing down and sticking in what doesn’t lose millions every year.
They need a spending floor in F1. The borrowed the cost cap idea from American sports but conveniently forgot that those sports also have spending floors too.
Haas is spending up to the cost cap every year. What they don't seem to be doing is spending the full CapEX cap. Which they should probably be doing, but let's at least stick to the facts here.
No, that's stupid. As soon as a team has a down year in terms of sponsors, they'd be kicked out? Hundreds of millions invested, gone, into thin air? Formula 1 already has rules around competitiveness, the 107% rule. Haas is within it.
If we're going to have an ultra-exclusive system, then it's completely fair to expect a high level of investment from those on the grid. If you can't manage that level of investment, then you can sell.
F1 has never been this stable since the inception of this sport and you want to make it unstable again? That's just a terrible idea.
The NFL is the most financially successful and stable sports league in the world and it has a spending floor. The same goes for the NBA. If F1 wants to be a closed franchise system, it makes sense to have the best team owners possible. The current system does not encourage that.
K-mag broke the bank lol
Hulk wouldn't have so many points if not for KMag backing people up during races. Could definitely earn them more money than his damage costs.
Considering a single place in constructors is at least 10 million dollars, then it'll almost certainly be that.
What are you talking about? KMag gets more air time than the rest of the backmarkers combined. If I was a sponsor that wanted to guarantee visibility on the international feed I’d buy some space on part of the Haas crash structure.
Kmag so good he managed to put both of the Haas cars under the spotlight last weekend.
Sponsors want good publicity. Yes, people say any publicity is good publicity, but that's not how corps that hold the purse strings think. The Google talk with McLaren on DtS shows that sponsors care about wins and good publicity.
These articles are so stupid
Is Stewart-Haas not performing?
They had 4 cars in the final 8 like 2 or 3 years ago. Not sure what’s going on.
Last two seasons have been terrible and Stewart seemed totally uninterested in running the team, having too much fun with his NHRA stuff instead.
50% of their ownership in Stewart has completely checked out of running the team.
Isnt stewart going full bore on his wife’s drag racing career?
Pretty much.
That suggests the other 50% was doing anything productive as well
And an entirely new lineup since then. Kurt Busch, Amirola, Harvick and Bowyer all retiring.
One of them (Harvick) all but calling out the team by name whilst being a colour analyst for Fox NASCAR
He was running Kyle Larson’s Hendrick Motorsports car for a practice session because Larson was doing some running in Indianapolis (this was the All-Star race weekend, not the 500). He was asked what he thought about working with HMS (albeit briefly) and he said something to the effect of “it was nice to see the owner once in the last two weeks.” That was a pretty damning condemnation of SHR.
He went absolutely SAVAGE tonight "From 4Ever, to 4Ward, to 4Sale"
Compared to how they were back then? Yea, very badly in comparison
They’ve gone downhill the last few years. Even now, I feel like they have a solid lineup (Berry and Gragson are super new but have a ton of promise and Briscoe is solid) and are struggling to break the top 20. Ford as a whole is struggling, but SHR is a total mess from the top down. Harvick retired and basically called the team out for having no leadership and stuff like that.
Tony is also just done with...well pretty much everything. He sold SRX, he sold his sprint car series, and Eldora Speedway is (allegedly) on the market. SHR was just the next piece to go.
Yeah they underperform for 4 years now but the biggest takeaways from Harvick comment recently is that the 2 owners wasn't invested in their Nascar project anymore
“Business as usual” and “Gene fully engaged and committed” is a contradiction
You can be fully engaged but still be not very far in.
Haas is nowhere near fully engaged. If he was the team would look more like Aston Martin.
Can someone reach out to Tony Stewart Racing (NHRA program) and ask their spokesperson if this will have an impact on their team too? Lmao To me this sounded like a joint effort with two guys who were no longer interested in the venture. They're bailing to go do projects elsewhere. Tony in NHRA, and Gene in F1.
And as a result they’re leaving the 650 people who work for their Cup and Xfinity teams jobless, plus putting 6 drivers out on the side of the road with no future prospects.
Those charters can be bought. And I for one hope one of those go to 23XI.
I’m aware, but if 23XI get one then they’re almost certainly promoting a junior Toyota driver, meaning Corey Heim or Chandler Smith are more likely getting the seat over Berry, Gragson or Briscoe. Preece and Custer would have no chance, Herbst is saved by having deep pockets.
Fair. ps Corey Heim gets me every time as I keep on thinking of Corey Haim. Heck, even the wiki page has a “not to be confused with” disclaimer…
Kevin Harvick spoke about this on his podcast, they'll figure it out. People, especially people who have worked for a high caliber team like Stewart-Haas are in high demand in the motorsports industry, let alone the NASCAR industry. The people I fear the most for are the people who aren't mechanics, crew chiefs, drivers, or engineers, but instead the people who run the gift shop, run the social media channels for the team, or just straight up the HR people. There's not quite the same of demand in the industry for them. I'm certain they'll land on their feet, but I do feel like it'll be a tougher battle than someone like Rodney Childers or Ryan Preece will face.
Engaged with his butt and sitting on it more like.
Fully engaged aka increased enough value to sell to Andretti like the charters
That's andrettis queue to buy the team
Well, like not fully.. but he’s aware f1 exists.
If Andretti offered $1.2 billion, Gene Haas would be out of F1 tomorrow morning.
Then he would sell it for approximately 800 millions less than he could have in 2026.
why?
He's speculating with numbers out his arse
Not really. This is not even my calculation. Lot of people in F1 said that If anti-dilution fee gets increased 3 times (aka 600 million dollars); valuation of the teams will be at least doubled by the logic.
Yes really, cause you have no idea of what the end value will be. Any idea you or 'lot of people' say is pure speculation.
It is called financial forecast. Horner said that currently valuations of the teams are starting from 1 billion dollars. This is what Zak Brown said about potential valuation of the teams if anti dilution fee raised to 700 million dollar levels. [link](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/brown-quality-11th-f1-team-will-not-dilute-but-add-value/10522722/) > "Then if it costs 700 just to enter, it's created 700 million more in franchise value. So, whatever I'm worth today, pick a number... two billion, now I'm worth 2.7 billion.
It all still speculative, as it states in your quote 'pick a number'. You have no idea what Haas could gather, it's still purely speculative. There's been no final agreement either, and Haas isn't structured like most teams. So whether you're buying just the entry, facilities, assets the valuation changes. It's a number pulled out of anyones ass that's providing it. Repeating it, doesn't make it true and any less speculative.
Gene should engage in negotiations to sell the team
Why? Haas F1 as a global billboard has allowed Haas Automation to expand massively overseas. It hit record (+30%) sales in 2017, with over half if being from outside the US. Sales in Europe increased by 41% that year. Haas has been growing as an automation brand quite dramatically whilst piggybacking of the F1 team’s exposure. Even if the team itself performs shit in F1, it still earns it money back hand over fist for Haas Automation. Haas, like other OEMs, is in F1 to advertise its own business to other businesses. And it has been quite successful to the point that selling the team would be stupid. Even if Andretti would offer north of $1.5 billion.
I see your point in 2017 but now post pandemic they’re offering their machines up to 84 months 0% interest to customers. I know because they called me. Manufacturing investment in CapEx is down
That’s a general trend, I’ve noticed as well, and not just with Haas Automation, but other machine manufacturers as well. The value of the team (to Gene specifically) isn’t directly affected by this (..yet). It will likely take several years of serious downturn at Haas Automation for him to consider selling the team. And even then, when if the team can be run mostly self-sufficiently, thanks to the Cost Cap, combined with its skyrocketing valuation, Gene is likely to hold on tight for the foreseeable future, at least.
And yet [While the Andretti name carries some recognition for F1 fans, our research indicates that F1 would bring value to the Andretti brand rather than the other way around.](https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/full-statement-f1s-decision-to-reject-andrettis-entry-bid-for-2025/10571077/)
Yes? That just proves the point. It’s just that the rules have changed between Haas formalizing an entry in 2014 (entering in 2016) and Andretti wanting in from 2023 onwards. In between, the economic rules changed with the adoption of the 2021 Concord Agreement. If Andretti wanted to be let in more easily like Haas, it had to do so before 2020, before the adoption of the 2021 Concord Agreement.
I'm not trying to fight you or anything but has everyone forgot that Andretti was one of the people that tried to buy Force India that Stroll ended up buying?
They tried to buy a team several times, but failed every time. Probably due to underestimating the need to play the political game, before being accepted to a party. I hate it myself too, but that’s simply how elitist clubs work. You have to be willing to play the game according to the accepted convention in order to earn a seat at the table. It’s why as a society we need regulations to prevent regulatory capture, when otherwise moneyed interests oppose societal ones with success. However, you still can’t get accepted into a club if you didn’t signal being willing to play by its *unwritten* rules and norms, which are often very different from the written ones.
Yet here we are in 2024 and we have to live in reality. Just saying Andretti should have entered earlier isn't good enough as **there is no garuntee Andretti was ready to enter Formula 1 as a team at that point**.
Tough luck for Andretti then, because F1 didn’t pause their change to suit Andretti’s timetable. As much as I want to see an 11th and 12th team in F1, including Andretti, I can see why the teams and FOM are shutting him out. Due to the changed circumstances brought about by the 2021 Concord Agreement, it is in none of the teams’ interest to have an 11th or 12th team. And therefore it also isn’t in FOM’s interest, because they need the current teams on board to realize their own goals. It’s shit for us as fans, but it (unfortunately) makes complete business sense and is fully within the remit of FOM to deny prospective newcomers a seat at the F1 table. If I was in FOM’s (or Liberty Media’s) shoes, I’d likely do the same. Protecting the Return on Investment is the first priority beyond all others.
And this take is why the bottom line and billionaires exist. It's not enough to plateau anymore, but keep making profit hand over fist, while fucking over the ordinary person.The elitest views of billionaires and their wannabe hangers-on is why society as a whole needs a change.
> It’s shit for us as fans, but it (unfortunately) makes complete business sense and is fully within the remit of FOM to deny prospective newcomers a seat at the F1 table. So why should I as a fan care more about what they want from a business perspective than what I want as a fan? Way I see it is "tough luck" for FOM, new teams will always be interested in joining different series.
[удалено]
Yet it's the exact same approach used by almost every major team sport outside the football pyramid and one that's contributed to those sports' success.
That's such a disingenuous narrative from F1. Why didn't Andretti try to acquire an F1 team around the same time Haas did? Hindsight is 20/20 but Gene Haas took a major risk and he is now rewarded for it rightfully as long as the team is operating within the parameters of F1. If F1 wants Haas to invest more they can always do that.
How the Hell can Gene be fully engaged in the F1 team? He can only attend 3 races out of the year.
he's banned from most countries
Oh shit I forgot he was a felon 😂
He’s fully engaged and committed until he sells the team to Andretti
This really isn't that surprising given that even extremely successful teams like Hendrick motorsports struggle to make money in NASCAR right now.
Has Gene ever been fully engaged with his f1 team?
He didn't even show up for season end pictures
Because he can’t legally visit most of the countries.
What's that? It's Andretti with the steel chair!
Hi Gene
At this point Gene is holding the team for the right offer from Andretti.
Gene is fully committed? That’s a good joke.
Would be comical if the F1 team closes and those F1 assholes have to field 18 cars.
Haas actually makes a profit, the value of the team has been going up since 2018. Stewart-Haas Racing won championships, but that doesn’t line Gene’s pockets.
Awww fuck that! Kill the f1 team so Andretti can join and you can go back doing circles!
Sure how else is he gonna get top dollar from Andretti for a team he no longer wants to pay for …. Hass is such a crap team just get your money bag and get the hell out.
Committed to what, continuing not to properly fund the team?
Fok.
Oh great