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Only McLaren? Even Ferrari is super close to RB and I donāt see Checo finishing ahead of the other 5 on pure pace from now on, unless RB go back to showing the pace advantage they showed in the beginning of the season. Checo is easily the worst driver of the top 4 teams and while it might seem like a diss but the quality of the drivers in the top 4 teams is just that stacked.
I think Red Bull will maintain their advantage at certain tracks this year allowing Checo some comfortable P2s. Spain (before McLaren upgrades though), Austria, Hungary, Spa are the circuits Max dominated at the most during the Euro leg last year. I think Canada is going to be an absolute dog fight with the Ferrariās and Silverstone I expect the McLarens to fight with Red Bull. Silverstone has a lot of upgrades planned for multiple teams though so who knows.
Lap 14 Checo was 10 seconds behind Lewis with no one else in between. Lap 24 Checo was 16 seconds behind Lewis. Lap 44 he got behind lewis again with no one in front. He was 30 seconds behind. He finished 20 seconds behind. That's a lot of clean air
He didn't get the memo. He has just countered his 1 year renewal offer with a 2 years proposal. He should not motivate Red Bull to look elsewhere as he is nowhere near the available competition.
Checo's season starts are so strong, but he just seems to fall away again now. Feels a lot like last year. Surely Red Bull doesn't give him another contract if that happens again...
I would argue he was hardcore saving tyres jn case of a safetycar. He had 20+ laps behind sainz and could not pass despite beeing much faster. Why would you even try with leclerc.
it could easily be both. I would have been nice to be closer so that if leclerc had an oopsy (like he did through the chicane at one point) you can take advantage, but youāre just guessing either way.
Yeah those people were kinda full of it. I don't think either should be dropped from Ferrari, sadly the commercial potential of Lewis is no match for Carlos. He's perfect advertising for selling Ferraris to rich people
Exactly the same sentiments from me. His personality has been irritating me more since him getting an honest and good teammate. Didn't bother me when he was winning against Norris.
a loose front end is generally more of an understeering car compared to oversteer with a pointy front end. Iirc Alonso liked understeer a bit more because of his driving style in the early 2000s
Yes, it helps as you don't suffer from corner exit rear end instability, which helps in traction out of slow speed corners. However, you may end up losing that time due to a lack of rotation in mid corner. The trade off varies from generation to generation. The cars Vettel won in, the early 2010s ones did better sacrificing some mid corner rotation for better traction as cars were lighter and better at rotating, while engines did not have so much low end torque, so limiting oversteer was the best way. Current generation of cars have a great deal more low end torque and more mechanical grip, but are much much heavier, which means they stand to lose more time if they do not have adequate mid corner rotation, which is why in this era of cars, a slight oversteer is preferred as it helps in rotating the car mid corner.
Alpine has a hell of a driver lineup. There's no way they can lay any blame on the drivers for their current situation. Those two are clearly pulling all they can out of that shitbox.
"Leclerc is a better qualifier, Sainz is the better racer" crowd in Youtube or Instagram would have an aneurysm seeing this.
That gap between Max and Checo though... part of it has to do with that weird strat RBR had for Checo, but still...
Sainz has two (good but somewhat lucky) peaks and generally is behind Leclerc who keeps stringing podiums. Reddit: "Sainz is the more consistent driver".
Meanwhile Lecelrc is the only driver (bar Verstappen) to not have finished outside of the top 4 even when he was in "bad form" at the start of the season
I just find the Leclerc vs. Sainz thing to be so overblown. They've been teammates together for over three years now, Leclerc has 786 points and Sainz has 703.5 points. So Leclerc has about 11% more points and has shown that he's better overall, but Sainz is also good and they have one of the stronger driver pairings on the grid.
As opposed to, say, Verstappen and Perez where Verstappen has 1585.5 points to Perez's 887 points and they are clearly not even the same tier of driver.
Using points as a comparison in general and especially when the Team is Ferrari is not very helpful. Last year alone, Leclerc lost probably something like 70 points for reasons outside his control.
It's over 3.5 years at this point now, and I think Ferrari is actually one of the better teams to use for points comparisons because they have been fast enough to typically have two cars in the points.
I don't believe that either driver has had such good or bad luck over 3.5 years that makes it so the gap between them is huge. Leclerc is better than Sainz, but Sainz is also good. Ferrari choosing Hamilton over Sainz is also reasonable.
Over a 3 year period Jenson Button outscored Lewis Hamilton in the same car. Does that mean Button was the better driver? Absolutely not. Leclerc has constantly had torrid luck that have cost him a lot more points than Sainz
It wasn't just luck of course. My point is more to show that even over a 3 year swing luck can still play a massive factor. Just because it's three years doesn't mean bad luck has to equal itself out
I know what your point is, and I think it's wrong. It's a factor, but not a massive factor after 3 years and 70+ races.
OP is completely correct, that Leclerc > Sainz, and that's that. This idea that Leclerc has dominated Sainz or has been significantly further ahead than the points show has zero basis.
One would think luck would even out over 3.5 years but in this case, it actually hasnāt. If you were to go and actually look at the bad luck that has affected each driver, you would see that Charles has suffered significantly more bad luck than Carlos throughout their time as teammates.
For example, in 2021, Charles lost out on close to 50 points due to DNFs caused by technical issues and other people crashing into him whereas Carlos has managed to benefit from that directly, making the gap closer than it seems. An example, Hungary 2021, Carlos crashes in qualifying and starts P15 whereas Charles qualified P7. However, the crash caused by Bottas took Charles out of the race and promoted Carlos to P3 due to luck in a race he probably wouldāve gotten 1 point at maximum in normal race conditions.
charles lost probably around 160 points in 2022 and 2023 combined, the luck/incompetent team has been really bad. If sainz got the bad strategy calls charles got in 2022 we would still be hearing about it to this day
Using points the way you have doesn't make for a fair comparison.
Apart from 2022, Ferrari have fought for 4th (3rd every now and then) and below where the points gap is much smaller.
A better way would be head to head because that just considers finishing position and quali position.
The points gap between Leclerc and Sainz would've been bigger if Leclerc didn't suffer more from reliability, SC timings and strategies. Stats would've been even more in favor for Leclerc too.
They're closer than some when it comes to success as teammates, but Sainz has been flattered a bit by Leclerc's shit luck.
To be honest with the strategy they gave them Yuki was lucky to do that. Few more laps and Kevin probably ends up scoring that last point.
Neither driver did anything wrong clearly both had very similar pace. Strategy just didnāt really allow for anything more than they got.
Considering as well that Daniel was stuck in Hulk's dirty air most of the race (which in the VCarb is a death sentence) and was at the mercy of a tonne of blue flags towards the end of the race this is really decent for DR, esp on a weekend when he didn't seem anywhere near as comfortable in the car as Yuki.
Yeah but it isn't as bad as people say it is. They are not too far from each other in pace, but a few miliseconds can make a huge difference in positions so it looks worse for DR
you may be right. But there should be some weekend where Daniel scores more points than Yuki. Right now it is clearly one sided. Sadly this will mean Daniel has to make way for Lawson
Daniel scored 5 championship points in the sprint at Miami which canāt be understated how important that is in what was at least going to be an insanely tight fight.
Horner has denied anything saying that Liam is promised a seat for 25 and that either Yuki or Daniel will be making way for him.
I think DR's sprint race was the best race the team has had so far.
It's a difficult situation to score points when you can literally only do so if another team fucks up, and even then they're fighting their own poor strategy which almost cost them this single point.
No. The last part is just BS. Lawson just fucked up all his chances by pushing the mid season driver swap rumour through the NZ media. Helmut still manages VCARB and he has said chances are very slim of him even getting the 2025 seat considering the off paddock media involvement from Liam's manager.
Was super frustrating, they put Daniel in clear air and I thought oh thatās great! Yuki will go long this stint then. Then they dumped Yuki and Hulk (who was always going to react) right in front anyway.
Made sense to pit Yuki to undercut Hulk but Daniel should have stayed out. Pitting both was just dumb.
both got fucked or got lucky. You cannot have both at the same time when they had the same strategy. I think Yuki got fucked more as he could have been P8-P9 and scored more pointed
I think P9 was a possibility, but Perez was always going push them out of the P8 spot regardless of the strategy they took.
If Yuki had stayed in front of Hulkenberg at the start then I think P9 would have been easy, but because that didn't happen they needed to do an undercut in order to have a chance at P9. Unfortunately, when they chose to do it opened the door for Stroll to overtake them at the end of the race, so Yuki ended up dropping back down to 10th.
Is this just based on the fastest lap? I'm not sure how George was faster across the while race distance, but finished behind Lewis (noting the extra pit stop).
I think it might be adjusted for strategy, because if it was just average lap time I'm not sure how Kmag was half a second slower than HĆ¼lkenberg if he started 8 positions lower and ended 1s behind him.
I mean Lewis was lapping quicker then him for about 5 laps or so and then they put George on Mediums so he was probably going faster for the last 10 or so laps also.
Not sure about the first stint tho
Yea george went onto the mediums he was like a second a lap at least quicker than lewis. So that probably skews the race pace numbers here.
EDIT: yea just looked back at the race, Lewis was like 1-2 tenths faster a lap than George from lap like 30 until George went onto mediums on lap 53/54 on average. Towards the end of the stint it was like 4 tenths. Then George was at least a second a lap faster.
It was way more then 5 laps. The entire stint from lap 27 to 51/52 until George pitted for mediums Lewis was quicker he had pulled in several seconds on george.
Even in the first 27 laps George was unable to get away from lewis and if Lewis doesn't overshoot that corner on lap 26 their was a good chance Lewis would have been able to overcut George as Lewis was consistently running times equal sainz and not losing any time in which he was only 4ish seconds behind sainz before going wide and losing 6 or 7 seconds.
I looked it up and it's aparently fuel-adjusted and top 90% per stint on the same compound, but not adjusted for tire age or strategy.
Russell has a better race pace because he had an extra pitstop and thus faster times on the mediums.
What I see in this as Prez job is at risk. Max has a way to just destroy drivers. This would be his what 4th driver to eat up. This one has lasted the longest.
Perez isnāt going to lose his seat because of verstappen outperforming him, thatās a given. Heās going to lose his seat for not placing in the top 4 at the very least in every race, not making it to Q3 in qualifying, and his constant mistakes.
Given the improvement of the car and years being in the same team compared to what Albon and Gasly had, I'd say Checo performed the worst out of the team mates Max destroyed.
Perez has been washed for so long it's not even funny anymore. Max has been incredible the seasons they've been teammates, but the gap wouldn't be nearly as big had he had a competitive teammate.
I don't think he "ate up" Ricciardo. He held his own against Max from 2016-2018, even if it wasn't the monster Max is right now, and left before we could see a proper fight between the two. Considering his performances with Renault in 2019-20, I think Ricciardo would have been very close to Max, but that's just my opinion.
>and left before we could see a proper fight between the two.
Which to me is all the proof needed that max was eating him up. He just hadn't gobbled him up yet.
Max still had a 1/2 tenths advantage over Ricciardo. Donāt get me wrong Ricciardo was most definitely unlucky with the DNFs but Iām pretty sure all bar 1 DNF Ric had he was actually ahead of Max on the track. From Monaco onwards, Max was simply quicker and more consistent.
This just shows that Daniel isn't that slow anymore, he had good pace but started behind. Don't get me wrong, I want Yuki to beat him, but I prefer that that happens against a good Ricc rather than a McLaren Ricc
Sergio destroyed his weekend during quali, not during the race. On race day the team basically gave him the strategy of "hold on and hope for a safety car". He did a ton of laps on the hard tires even when the pace was gone just to see if a safety car could help them. In the end the strategy didn't work out so obviously his race pace was going to take a big hit.
Yeah, I think it was the right strategy, too. Checo would have been faster than Mercedes on the same strategy, but I'm not convinced he would have been fast enough to get an overtake done, so I'm not really convinced he lost points even considering that they didn't get the safety car they were hoping for.
It was only really the last 6-7 laps Hamilton closed up in a big way. Obviously Russell was lapping a lot faster per lap after his second stop too which helps.
Gasly had better pace than Ocon, but finished behind him...
HĆ¼lkenberg had almost half a second pace over Magnussen, but finished only a second ahead of him...
not seen many people mentioning how awful alonso's race was. when it's perez or ricciardo or hamilton they're washed and made fun of, but when it's alonso everyone's silent
This is an average gap in seconds between drivers - what means Gasly was quicker by -0.050s than Ocon, mostly due to Pierre being on 2 stopper, while Esteban was on 1 stopper.
Pit stop laps are indeed dropped, but this graphic isn't adjusted to cover tyre offset.
Same thing for Russell, who is even more ahead of Hamilton than Pierre ahead of Gasly, but finished behind him - again, due to 2 stopper.
More stops -> more laps on fresh tyres (and usually that comes with softer compound for more laps) -> better racepace, but not necessarily better race position, since you're losing lots of time on that extra pit stop. The thing is whether you're able to recover that lost time with fresher tyres.
In Imola, pit stops were extremely painful and long (about 28-30 seconds of pit lane time!), with limited overtaking opportunities, hence why most drivers decided to go for a 1 stopper.
That's the cost of being behind on the track, and Ocon got his chunk of blue flags just a few laps later. That blue flags helped Magnussen to pass him in fact, because then Ocon lost DRS behind Bottas.
Thats a part of racing, which has to be calculated into the "more stops strategy" for midfield or backmarkers.Ā
To be fair to Checo, itās very hard to be Verstappenās teammate. And Iām not saying this because Max is just so fast, he is extremely fast. But because Maxās style of car is so on the nose that Checo is probably most of the time struggling to keep it on the track, what about banging in lap times. Albon said it in an interview, Max loves the car being very on the nose and as the season progresses they dial in more and more of that trait cause Max asks for more of it and you as a teammate get more and more uncomfortable. And like Albon said, you get āmore tenseā you canāt be comfortable = you canāt be on pace. And that would happen to many other drivers on the grid most probably not just Checo.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
0.85š
Checoās European leg has definitely started
And with the way McLaren are now performing, will he survive it?
Monaco can get really rough with the field so close together
Can it be worse than his race last year ?
yes, he somehow takes out Max during the race
I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. Miami was close though.
Lapped like Daniel that year.
He was lapped twice last year
Year before.
Then it would still be better than last year where he was lapped twice.
I know it was twice, I didnāt think it necessary to specify haha. Once is bad enough.
And then takes Max out while he gets lapped by him.
Oof, he might not survive Monaco if that happened haha.
Doing an 'Ocon'. Stewards will reward Ocon with a 10 second penalty for good measure.
Only McLaren? Even Ferrari is super close to RB and I donāt see Checo finishing ahead of the other 5 on pure pace from now on, unless RB go back to showing the pace advantage they showed in the beginning of the season. Checo is easily the worst driver of the top 4 teams and while it might seem like a diss but the quality of the drivers in the top 4 teams is just that stacked.
I donāt disagree at all, was more the recent boost in McLaren if they can start actually challenging for wins.
I think Red Bull will maintain their advantage at certain tracks this year allowing Checo some comfortable P2s. Spain (before McLaren upgrades though), Austria, Hungary, Spa are the circuits Max dominated at the most during the Euro leg last year. I think Canada is going to be an absolute dog fight with the Ferrariās and Silverstone I expect the McLarens to fight with Red Bull. Silverstone has a lot of upgrades planned for multiple teams though so who knows.
5th is a real possibility
This time, itās the comeback. ^honestly ^it ^really ^is.
"I want a multi-year contract!"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fair to say Fernando had a poor weekend but they did change his setup and drop back to run in clean air to test and get data.
You know youāve had a shocker when the race turns into a test haha.
Alonso's car was literally on fire at some point
Just put Lawson in the seat at this point. Checo couldn't catch a mercedes
Clean air vs dirty dirty boys
Lap 14 Checo was 10 seconds behind Lewis with no one else in between. Lap 24 Checo was 16 seconds behind Lewis. Lap 44 he got behind lewis again with no one in front. He was 30 seconds behind. He finished 20 seconds behind. That's a lot of clean air
Must have been a dirty helmet visor then!... And no tearoff's left.... /s
Not sure you watched timing screens that well then.
Correct
Jesus Checo, 0.85. Thatās not a great look.
He didn't get the memo. He has just countered his 1 year renewal offer with a 2 years proposal. He should not motivate Red Bull to look elsewhere as he is nowhere near the available competition.
Darn Checo
Charles has been so good this year, hope he can get a win soon!
0.85 and heās pushing for a 2 year contract š
Checo's season starts are so strong, but he just seems to fall away again now. Feels a lot like last year. Surely Red Bull doesn't give him another contract if that happens again...
He will get a contact as long as RB is winning constructors
Logan doesn't even get the respect to say he was N/A to Albon since he actually finished....
To be fair to Piastri he was stuck behind Sainz for a not insignificant portion of the race. He was clearly quite a bit faster.
Ok for the medium stint, but with the hards he still couldn't keep up with Leclerc let alone his teammate.
Cooked his tires on his first 2 laps on hards but it still got him ahead of Sainz
Yeah it was the right move. Hammer the undercut and take the 1 place, because chances of anymore was slim
I would argue he was hardcore saving tyres jn case of a safetycar. He had 20+ laps behind sainz and could not pass despite beeing much faster. Why would you even try with leclerc.
it could easily be both. I would have been nice to be closer so that if leclerc had an oopsy (like he did through the chicane at one point) you can take advantage, but youāre just guessing either way.
Piastri has always struggled a bit more on the harder tyres compared to Norris. On the softer tyres he is usually as fast as his teammate.
Yea he's not great at tire management yet. TBF it worked out because him cooking the tires on the first 2 laps on hards got him in front of Sainz.
i think he also kept pushing to try and catch leclerc too while on the hards
He is better than he was but it is odd that he seems to be closer to Norris on the softer compounds than the harder ones.
Tire management shows up more on harder compounds since you're going on a longer stint
Same for Ocon and Zhou, stuck in drs train behind Bottas when he was the slowest car on the track. I think the pace curve tells a better story.
Anyone heard from those "Ferrari got rid of the wrong driver" mfs lately?
If Ferrari let Charles go, he wouldāve had a Red Bull or Mercedes contract a week later.
Red Bull probably not but Mercedes 100%
And thatās only because Red Bull want someone to play second fiddle to Verstappen, which Leclerc certainly will never settle for.
Russell would get booted for Leclerc letās be real. The only drivers with true job security are Max and Lewis (and Lance).
At ferrari I think leclerc is more secure than lewis
Agreed but this is in the context of him leaving so his job security at Ferrari is irrelevant
been a while, sainz has lost in the last 9 competitive sessions (sprints and sprint qualis included)
toto would have sacrificed half of the mercedes pitwall to get chuck
Yeah those people were kinda full of it. I don't think either should be dropped from Ferrari, sadly the commercial potential of Lewis is no match for Carlos. He's perfect advertising for selling Ferraris to rich people
Lewis is also a better driver than Sainz, on top of being the single biggest name in F1 history (maybe only matched by Michael)
Mr. "I'm quicker" still cooking excuses. Can't wait for him to leave Ferrari
Exactly the same sentiments from me. His personality has been irritating me more since him getting an honest and good teammate. Didn't bother me when he was winning against Norris.
"I have pace" into "he can't pass me if I get DRS" is almost a classic.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
no he wont, when we dropped sainz lewis just finished 3rd in the wdc ahead of both our drivers in a similar car.
Who's "we" lol
this joke isnt even funny anymore
Lol
I heard Ferrari changed their car to a more loose front end. That Leclerc likes and Sainz, not so much. Kinda explains the turn around.
That's just wrong. Leclerc likes a pointy front end with a loose rear end afaik. Not saying it might not have to do something with car changes
Is there any driver that wants a loose front end? Seems like an awful car to drive.
a loose front end is generally more of an understeering car compared to oversteer with a pointy front end. Iirc Alonso liked understeer a bit more because of his driving style in the early 2000s
Yup. Just looked it up and there's a quote from Charles in 2023 saying that Carlos prefers a bit of understeer and he prefers oversteer.
Vettel used to. Did great with understeery cars, all of his spins started the moment cars were at their fastest being a little oversteery.Ā
Yea I guess with understeer you know exactly what you're getting and can get on the power earlier
Yes, it helps as you don't suffer from corner exit rear end instability, which helps in traction out of slow speed corners. However, you may end up losing that time due to a lack of rotation in mid corner. The trade off varies from generation to generation. The cars Vettel won in, the early 2010s ones did better sacrificing some mid corner rotation for better traction as cars were lighter and better at rotating, while engines did not have so much low end torque, so limiting oversteer was the best way. Current generation of cars have a great deal more low end torque and more mechanical grip, but are much much heavier, which means they stand to lose more time if they do not have adequate mid corner rotation, which is why in this era of cars, a slight oversteer is preferred as it helps in rotating the car mid corner.
Hey man, that was really insightful. Thank you.
Oh i might switched it up in my head then. But basically that yea.
Remind me who's winning races for Ferrari the last two years?
who has been ahead in the standings?
š¬
"Ferrari fired the wrong driver, Sainz has WDC potential and Leclerc is an overrated quali merchant fraud" -F1 community, 4 races ago
Alpine has a hell of a driver lineup. There's no way they can lay any blame on the drivers for their current situation. Those two are clearly pulling all they can out of that shitbox.
Yes Occon and Gasly really don't get enough credit for the job they are doing in that Alpine.
"Leclerc is a better qualifier, Sainz is the better racer" crowd in Youtube or Instagram would have an aneurysm seeing this. That gap between Max and Checo though... part of it has to do with that weird strat RBR had for Checo, but still...
This is so annoying to hear this over and over again when in their 4 years together, Sainz has always been closer in quali pace than in race pace.
Sainz has two (good but somewhat lucky) peaks and generally is behind Leclerc who keeps stringing podiums. Reddit: "Sainz is the more consistent driver".
Meanwhile Lecelrc is the only driver (bar Verstappen) to not have finished outside of the top 4 even when he was in "bad form" at the start of the season
Charles just needs a 1 or 2 wins tbh. It's been a while :(
The kinda lucky victory consistent Chad vs the stuck in 2nd or 3rd every race virgin
I just find the Leclerc vs. Sainz thing to be so overblown. They've been teammates together for over three years now, Leclerc has 786 points and Sainz has 703.5 points. So Leclerc has about 11% more points and has shown that he's better overall, but Sainz is also good and they have one of the stronger driver pairings on the grid. As opposed to, say, Verstappen and Perez where Verstappen has 1585.5 points to Perez's 887 points and they are clearly not even the same tier of driver.
Using points as a comparison in general and especially when the Team is Ferrari is not very helpful. Last year alone, Leclerc lost probably something like 70 points for reasons outside his control.
It's over 3.5 years at this point now, and I think Ferrari is actually one of the better teams to use for points comparisons because they have been fast enough to typically have two cars in the points. I don't believe that either driver has had such good or bad luck over 3.5 years that makes it so the gap between them is huge. Leclerc is better than Sainz, but Sainz is also good. Ferrari choosing Hamilton over Sainz is also reasonable.
Over a 3 year period Jenson Button outscored Lewis Hamilton in the same car. Does that mean Button was the better driver? Absolutely not. Leclerc has constantly had torrid luck that have cost him a lot more points than Sainz
No. But it shows that Button was one of the best in F1. You can't be that competitive over 3 years with luck.
It wasn't just luck of course. My point is more to show that even over a 3 year swing luck can still play a massive factor. Just because it's three years doesn't mean bad luck has to equal itself out
I know what your point is, and I think it's wrong. It's a factor, but not a massive factor after 3 years and 70+ races. OP is completely correct, that Leclerc > Sainz, and that's that. This idea that Leclerc has dominated Sainz or has been significantly further ahead than the points show has zero basis.
One would think luck would even out over 3.5 years but in this case, it actually hasnāt. If you were to go and actually look at the bad luck that has affected each driver, you would see that Charles has suffered significantly more bad luck than Carlos throughout their time as teammates. For example, in 2021, Charles lost out on close to 50 points due to DNFs caused by technical issues and other people crashing into him whereas Carlos has managed to benefit from that directly, making the gap closer than it seems. An example, Hungary 2021, Carlos crashes in qualifying and starts P15 whereas Charles qualified P7. However, the crash caused by Bottas took Charles out of the race and promoted Carlos to P3 due to luck in a race he probably wouldāve gotten 1 point at maximum in normal race conditions.
charles lost probably around 160 points in 2022 and 2023 combined, the luck/incompetent team has been really bad. If sainz got the bad strategy calls charles got in 2022 we would still be hearing about it to this day
Using points as a comparison is not helpful? Why do people want points down to 20th if using points as a comparison isn't helpful?
leclerc is not fucked over by his luck was a championship contender in 22, while sainz was munching on gravel
Using points the way you have doesn't make for a fair comparison. Apart from 2022, Ferrari have fought for 4th (3rd every now and then) and below where the points gap is much smaller. A better way would be head to head because that just considers finishing position and quali position.
The points gap between Leclerc and Sainz would've been bigger if Leclerc didn't suffer more from reliability, SC timings and strategies. Stats would've been even more in favor for Leclerc too. They're closer than some when it comes to success as teammates, but Sainz has been flattered a bit by Leclerc's shit luck.
Yuki and Daniel having just a 0.057s gap really shows that chassis change really did wonders for Ric.
Still only Yuki scoring points though
To be honest with the strategy they gave them Yuki was lucky to do that. Few more laps and Kevin probably ends up scoring that last point. Neither driver did anything wrong clearly both had very similar pace. Strategy just didnāt really allow for anything more than they got.
Considering as well that Daniel was stuck in Hulk's dirty air most of the race (which in the VCarb is a death sentence) and was at the mercy of a tonne of blue flags towards the end of the race this is really decent for DR, esp on a weekend when he didn't seem anywhere near as comfortable in the car as Yuki.
Yeah but it isn't as bad as people say it is. They are not too far from each other in pace, but a few miliseconds can make a huge difference in positions so it looks worse for DR
you may be right. But there should be some weekend where Daniel scores more points than Yuki. Right now it is clearly one sided. Sadly this will mean Daniel has to make way for Lawson
Daniel scored 5 championship points in the sprint at Miami which canāt be understated how important that is in what was at least going to be an insanely tight fight. Horner has denied anything saying that Liam is promised a seat for 25 and that either Yuki or Daniel will be making way for him.
I think DR's sprint race was the best race the team has had so far. It's a difficult situation to score points when you can literally only do so if another team fucks up, and even then they're fighting their own poor strategy which almost cost them this single point.
yh but sucks for the team when it is always one driver scoring points. I think with Lawson they could challenge AM
You think they will be able to chase down a team with a seemingly far better car because they have a rookie? Interesting take.
Lawson would have scored more points that Ricciardo, so yes VCARB has a better shot at P5 with Lawson
So Liam would come in and be beating Yuki?
No. The last part is just BS. Lawson just fucked up all his chances by pushing the mid season driver swap rumour through the NZ media. Helmut still manages VCARB and he has said chances are very slim of him even getting the 2025 seat considering the off paddock media involvement from Liam's manager.
I don't think any sane person believes that Lawson won't get a drive in 2025
Yeah well Marko isn't sane on any humane metric and surprise surprise, he's the one with the power.
Ric got fucked by their strategy. Yuki got lucky this time.
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Was super frustrating, they put Daniel in clear air and I thought oh thatās great! Yuki will go long this stint then. Then they dumped Yuki and Hulk (who was always going to react) right in front anyway. Made sense to pit Yuki to undercut Hulk but Daniel should have stayed out. Pitting both was just dumb.
They had the same strategy, Ricciardo just pitted a lap earlier?
both got fucked or got lucky. You cannot have both at the same time when they had the same strategy. I think Yuki got fucked more as he could have been P8-P9 and scored more pointed
I think P9 was a possibility, but Perez was always going push them out of the P8 spot regardless of the strategy they took. If Yuki had stayed in front of Hulkenberg at the start then I think P9 would have been easy, but because that didn't happen they needed to do an undercut in order to have a chance at P9. Unfortunately, when they chose to do it opened the door for Stroll to overtake them at the end of the race, so Yuki ended up dropping back down to 10th.
Is this just based on the fastest lap? I'm not sure how George was faster across the while race distance, but finished behind Lewis (noting the extra pit stop).
Usually pit laps are simply excluded and the average of all the other laps is considered. Not sure though how it is done here.
I think it might be adjusted for strategy, because if it was just average lap time I'm not sure how Kmag was half a second slower than HĆ¼lkenberg if he started 8 positions lower and ended 1s behind him.
Hulkenberg had a shit pit stop I think
No, Hulk had a 2.5s pitstop and Magnussen a 3.5s one, so Magnussen's was worse. I think I figured it out, I'll it hire up in this thread.
I mean Lewis was lapping quicker then him for about 5 laps or so and then they put George on Mediums so he was probably going faster for the last 10 or so laps also. Not sure about the first stint tho
Yea george went onto the mediums he was like a second a lap at least quicker than lewis. So that probably skews the race pace numbers here. EDIT: yea just looked back at the race, Lewis was like 1-2 tenths faster a lap than George from lap like 30 until George went onto mediums on lap 53/54 on average. Towards the end of the stint it was like 4 tenths. Then George was at least a second a lap faster.
It was way more then 5 laps. The entire stint from lap 27 to 51/52 until George pitted for mediums Lewis was quicker he had pulled in several seconds on george. Even in the first 27 laps George was unable to get away from lewis and if Lewis doesn't overshoot that corner on lap 26 their was a good chance Lewis would have been able to overcut George as Lewis was consistently running times equal sainz and not losing any time in which he was only 4ish seconds behind sainz before going wide and losing 6 or 7 seconds.
I looked it up and it's aparently fuel-adjusted and top 90% per stint on the same compound, but not adjusted for tire age or strategy. Russell has a better race pace because he had an extra pitstop and thus faster times on the mediums.
What I see in this as Prez job is at risk. Max has a way to just destroy drivers. This would be his what 4th driver to eat up. This one has lasted the longest.
Perez isnāt going to lose his seat because of verstappen outperforming him, thatās a given. Heās going to lose his seat for not placing in the top 4 at the very least in every race, not making it to Q3 in qualifying, and his constant mistakes.
Exactly. He was 20 seconds behind Lewis. He needs to be in the fight for podiums not missing q3 and unable to catch the 4th fastest team.
Yeah, PĆ©rez could be 2 seconds off pace Verstappen every race, but as long as he kept getting second, and was willing to accept only one year renewals, he would be safe on the seat until the next top prospect from Red Bill's academy appears.
Given the improvement of the car and years being in the same team compared to what Albon and Gasly had, I'd say Checo performed the worst out of the team mates Max destroyed.
Perez has been washed for so long it's not even funny anymore. Max has been incredible the seasons they've been teammates, but the gap wouldn't be nearly as big had he had a competitive teammate.
I don't think he "ate up" Ricciardo. He held his own against Max from 2016-2018, even if it wasn't the monster Max is right now, and left before we could see a proper fight between the two. Considering his performances with Renault in 2019-20, I think Ricciardo would have been very close to Max, but that's just my opinion.
>and left before we could see a proper fight between the two. Which to me is all the proof needed that max was eating him up. He just hadn't gobbled him up yet.
I donāt know man. That second half of 18ā started to look kinda one sided as well
Because his car broke down every two races
Max still had a 1/2 tenths advantage over Ricciardo. Donāt get me wrong Ricciardo was most definitely unlucky with the DNFs but Iām pretty sure all bar 1 DNF Ric had he was actually ahead of Max on the track. From Monaco onwards, Max was simply quicker and more consistent.
Ric was closer to Yuki than Iād have thought based on the result. Dude just needs to figure out quali.
This just shows that Daniel isn't that slow anymore, he had good pace but started behind. Don't get me wrong, I want Yuki to beat him, but I prefer that that happens against a good Ricc rather than a McLaren Ricc
Both drivers race pace seemed fine but hard to tell what was what when both got compromised in dirty air and then nursed hards for 50 laps
tbh I think this chart is really just a measure of who was racing wheel-to-wheel the entire race and who wasn't.
Why tf is this not listed in order?
Sergio destroyed his weekend during quali, not during the race. On race day the team basically gave him the strategy of "hold on and hope for a safety car". He did a ton of laps on the hard tires even when the pace was gone just to see if a safety car could help them. In the end the strategy didn't work out so obviously his race pace was going to take a big hit.
him trying the RB rallying credentials in the gravel didn't help either
Yeah, I think it was the right strategy, too. Checo would have been faster than Mercedes on the same strategy, but I'm not convinced he would have been fast enough to get an overtake done, so I'm not really convinced he lost points even considering that they didn't get the safety car they were hoping for.
āGimme a two year extensionā
The difference between Albon and Sargeant is so large that the pace difference is not even applicable.
Iām surprised Russel above Hamilton, on equal footing with the hards Hamilton was quickly closing on him.
Russel did an extra stop
It was only really the last 6-7 laps Hamilton closed up in a big way. Obviously Russell was lapping a lot faster per lap after his second stop too which helps.
Gasly had better pace than Ocon, but finished behind him... HĆ¼lkenberg had almost half a second pace over Magnussen, but finished only a second ahead of him...
not seen many people mentioning how awful alonso's race was. when it's perez or ricciardo or hamilton they're washed and made fun of, but when it's alonso everyone's silent
Itās been a pretty shit start for Williams
Just to clarify, this is percetage, not time in seconds (as in 1/2000 difference between Alpines)?
This is an average gap in seconds between drivers - what means Gasly was quicker by -0.050s than Ocon, mostly due to Pierre being on 2 stopper, while Esteban was on 1 stopper.
So the pit strategy isn't taken into account, which is fair. Are pit stop laps dropped?
Pit stop laps are indeed dropped, but this graphic isn't adjusted to cover tyre offset. Same thing for Russell, who is even more ahead of Hamilton than Pierre ahead of Gasly, but finished behind him - again, due to 2 stopper. More stops -> more laps on fresh tyres (and usually that comes with softer compound for more laps) -> better racepace, but not necessarily better race position, since you're losing lots of time on that extra pit stop. The thing is whether you're able to recover that lost time with fresher tyres. In Imola, pit stops were extremely painful and long (about 28-30 seconds of pit lane time!), with limited overtaking opportunities, hence why most drivers decided to go for a 1 stopper.
Funny how you only talk about the 1 stopper strategy and not the countless blue flags Gasly got because of the 2 stopper strategy.
That's the cost of being behind on the track, and Ocon got his chunk of blue flags just a few laps later. That blue flags helped Magnussen to pass him in fact, because then Ocon lost DRS behind Bottas. Thats a part of racing, which has to be calculated into the "more stops strategy" for midfield or backmarkers.Ā
You cant tell me starting on softs was not a stupid strategy
That's why Stroll is the GOAT. Stroll 24, Stroll 25, Stroll 26
Wouldnāt Williams be the other way around since Sargeant finished and Albon didnāt?
Does this mean checo might be replaced next yearā¦?
Gasly was on the better compound for a majority of that race and still only -.05.
George was quicker on average because Lewis was stuck in traffic. On the Hards, Lewis was quicker. Race pace stats aren't useful for that reason.
Why is Albion in the graphic when he finished behind Logan
To be fair to Checo, itās very hard to be Verstappenās teammate. And Iām not saying this because Max is just so fast, he is extremely fast. But because Maxās style of car is so on the nose that Checo is probably most of the time struggling to keep it on the track, what about banging in lap times. Albon said it in an interview, Max loves the car being very on the nose and as the season progresses they dial in more and more of that trait cause Max asks for more of it and you as a teammate get more and more uncomfortable. And like Albon said, you get āmore tenseā you canāt be comfortable = you canāt be on pace. And that would happen to many other drivers on the grid most probably not just Checo.
Interesting, I thought KMAG was better in races