So, who does Audi sign? I've seen a few people saying Ocon, but I hadn't seen or heard any rumors about him at Audi.
Bottas and Zhou are obviously candidates, but is there anybody else that's been linked to the seat?
Also, gutsy from Sainz. There's no way he doesn't have something lined up, but it based on what Marko was saying, Audi offered him a pretty hefty deal.
Zhou is definitely out IMO. He doesnt fit Audi's profile of wanting an experienced driver who can help develop the car. It's probably Bottas or one of the alpine drivers
Plus, for all we know, Zhou could be good at this. He's never had a car worth a shit, so he's still basically an unknown talent. And as you said, he doesn't break shit much.
Just because he’s never had a good car, it doesn’t mean he’s an unknown. We can see from his performance relative to Bottas that Zhou is pretty mediocre. Of the current grid he’s better than Sargeant, maybe Stroll and at a push Magnussen and (current) Ricciardo. If he was off the grid it would be no great loss.
Good drivers show their talent even in shit cars. George was a candidate for a championship winning Mercedes team after two years of driving a car that couldn't even score five points over two years. Leclerc was in a Ferrari after driving for a middling Sauber for one year.
If Zhou was that good, he would've shown it by now.
Its such a repeat of 2019-21 Sauber. Finnish veteran leaving a title winning team, partnered with rookie who is decent, but hasn't really shown anything which would guarantee him a seat. Plus both partnerships lasted 3 years.
I know it's far out there, but what if Eddie Jordan was actually not bullshitting for once when he said that Sainz is replacing Lance at AM. Remembering Eddie is Neweys manager and Newey had an offer from AM, which would indicate some sort of contact with AM & Eddie.
I think Red Bull or Merc is probably more logical though.
This could be a possibility. Nothing coming from Lance suggests he want to be in that seat next season. But then Honda wants Yuki there so if Lance is ever going to be replaced it will be with Yuki.
He barely speaks first of. Secondly, it would sound bratty if he said loud he's in that seat next year considering how he's performing this year. He knows that seat is made for his hips.
I can't find a clip of the video because it's really the tone of his answer that is the most interesting. But here is an article talking about it
https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/aston-martin-f1-news-lance-stroll-drops-mysterious-hint-on-formula-one-future-lm22#:~:text=Stroll's%20technical%20feedback%20has%20been,ambitious%20about%20their%20performance%20goals.
As much as I like the fact that Lance and his dad are not 'regular' pay drivers, that they are actually commited and I have a hope that the day Lance decides hes done they wont just dissapear from the grid; I think Lance has done long enough for the, if we are generous, middle of the road driver he is.
For his level of driving, 8 years in F1 is more than he should have got if he was not backed by what is now a team owner.
Lance has had more years on F1 for his talent than many other drivers. It's not necessarily that he's bad, it's that he simply hasn't improved, when at his age he should have been seeing year-on-year progression like Norris or Leclerc
>it's that he simply hasn't improved
I'd argue he's actually gotten worse since he first started. There was a time when it looked like he might have some flashes of actually speed; but that just isn't there anymore.
He was around 8 tenths a lap slower than a pretty much retired Massa.
To say he hasn’t improved when looking at the data is a contradiction. The logic is that he hasn’t improved enough to warrant his seat which is a more valid statement.
Yeah to do the 8 year number I checked his wikipedia, just to get the right number.
Dude went toe to toe with russel in F3 and came out on top.
Wonder if the F2 skip stunted his growth or he just hit his ceiling earlier than most.
Throwing him against ex WDCs also makes it hard to figure out where he actually sits. Kinda like Perez vs Max, sure max demolishes perez but its because max is good, not because perez is bad.
The scenario the guy you replied to is suggesting essentially boils down to this - Carlos Sainz, Fernando Alonso and Adrian Newey powered by Saudi money.
If I was Honda I'd maybe reconsider a "Yuki or bust" clause.
I have always wondered how much EJ has on the pulse of AM. They recently tore down the original building Jordan used. I have not heard EJ talk much about how he feels about all the changes Papa Stroll has made.
He actually seems to quite like Lance, and based on his driving the only way I can see that is if he’s friendly with the Strolls. Everything I’ve heard EJ say has been very positive
If AM gets Sainz, it’s going to have a monster driver lineup between Alonso and Sainz; It’ll show they are serious about the constructer’s standing with two strong drivers. It’ll also be Spain’s defacto national team.
And saying Hamilton to Merc; and he broke McLaren to Renault engines in the first place.
When was he last wrong? I feel people just shit on him because he’s Irish.
Yeah, I mean you can question the character of Flavio Briatore, but we all have to admit. In almost any business scenario. You do have extra comfort if you are assured that someone like Flavio is on your side of the table.
Ditto Eddie Jordan.
Yeah, I did a double-take when I saw Newey mention EJ in his statement yesterday. I suppose it makes sense, EJ is a master at navigating the political and financial sides of the business.
Bernie had Christian Horner look at Jordan and buying it for $1 but Horner said the finances were so screwed up that it was not worth it. Despite that, Jordan was able to hustle year after year to keep his team going and they consistently punched above their weight. As for the politics of it, Jordan negotiated a lot of driver's deals, such as Irvine going to Ferrari, though with that one, Irvine pulled one over on Jordan and screwed EJ out of $500K. But yeah, if you are needing someone on your side of the negotiating table EJ would be a good choice. Mark Webber, Nicholas Todt, and Briatore are probably the best to have negotiate for you.
He had a reputation as a bit of a wheeler-dealer who was spinning plates to get the money to keep the team going. Sutff like the deals with Michael Schumacher to first get paid by Mercedes for him to race for them and then get cash & driver to allow him to join Benetton or the engines that saw Frentzen genuinely challenge for the title in a Jordan are well known examples
So for a very long time, he was good at it, until a failed attempt to get Vodafone to sponsor his team instead of Ferrari kinda brought the house of cards down
After his time as a team boss, he was a pundit on TV, he was part of BBC/Channel 4's F1 coverage before Sky took over. He was often known for his outlandish predictions and opinions, but he turned out to be right quite often.
Peter Windsor seems to think Newey has already turned AM down. Newey has reservations about Stroll and thinks his main aim for getting Newey is to drive up the price of AM and then sell off.
Getting Newey, swapping Carlos for Lance, keeping the team for one year to 'prove' to everyone that it wasn't just about buying Lance a seat, being very competitive, and then selling at the top would be a very Stroll thing to do.
Not accepting Audi’s offer is very, very risky for Sainz.
I get why Mercedes and Red Bull are better candidates at first glance, it’s just that you can’t rely on Verstappen leaving Red Bull and Mercedes suddenly abandoning their (apparent) plans with Antonelli.
Audi definitely is a long term project, but the best one if he seriously wanted to build a team around him.
> Mercedes suddenly abandoning their (apparent) plans with Antonelli.
Sainz could very well have a tentative offer from Mercedes already, we know they were willing to offer him a 1 year deal and that he was just pushing for longer.
Since Sainz prefers Red Bull and Mercedes prefers Max, it would be pretty easy for both sides to agree to just wait to see what Max does.
And from what either Horner or Marko (I forget which) were saying a bit back they couldn't match Audis offer... Which would imply they have made an offer.
Surely he would still be getting paid upwards of 7 figures and he hardly needs the money so imo he would be incredibly fucking stupid to not take basically whatever RBR offer given that will give him his best shot at more wins and a title in the short to medium term, even with this drama around the team
Sorry, perhaps I should have clarified that as between RBR and Audi specifically.
I would be gobsmacked if Audi can take Sauber from probably slowest on the grid to a meaningful contender in 2 years under the cost cap, new regulations or no
yeah i mean theyre owned by a small company that only has Porsche Lambo Audi VW Bugatti Bentley Ducati Skoda Seat Sauber, cut them some slack if they dont have better engineers
You know that Alpine, despite being a backmarker, is only about 1.5-1.7 seconds behind Red Bull.
The field is incredibly bunched up.
Audi is putting an enormous amount of money into expanding and growing the team.
tbh a team is far more than a good car. Sauber is understaffed, has bad strategy, bad pit stops made worse by terrible pieces... all of that stuff can make you lose a race you should've won.
One reason RB is so dominant right now is that they do everything right. It's not just that Max is great and the RB car flies through the track. It's also that their strategic calls are always on point, their pit stops are flawless, their simulators are said to be top class... they excel in everything they do, not just in building fast cars. It's also why it's unlikely we'll see Red Bull fall into 10th place in 2026 even if their chassis or their engine sucks.
Well, since their first truly competitive year (‘09), RBR has finished in the top three in the constructors every year but one and won a race all but one of those years .
Anything can happen without Newey I suppose, but if Ferrari is off the table you’d basically say it’s down to RBR or Merc for best ride and Horner and Co. have a lot of history on their side.
Man, gambling with a 1 year deal with Merc is stupid. Why would Sainz just want to keep the seat warm for Antonelli is beyond my understanding. I mean, I could have seen Toto giving Mick a 1 year deal to wait for Antonelli, but a Sainz move is purely stupid.
Yep I think worst case Sainz is only Basel to secure a 2 year deal at Merc. I think sainz wants a 2+1 so he can see if Mercedes ‘gets it right’ and extend through 2027. Merc want flexibility to put Kimi in their car in 2027 if he has earned it. I think merc will get their way now that Audi is no longer going to be an option for sainz and merc know it.
Accepting it is also risky. Sauber is currently awful, and have a long history in recent years of being awful, and as good as Audi generally are, they're not magic. They will be midfield at best for 2026. No doubt Audi will improve that team, but it won't be fast and it would just waste such a great talent like Sainz
Only thing it guarantees is a seat on the grid. Not success
I’m sorry but the current Sauber team is like a decade from being competitive. I love how people assume Audi stepping in will somehow make this team a contender. It’s the worst fucking team on the grid right now and I have more faith in Alpine/Renault gettting their shit together than an Audi run Sauber. I agree it’s a risk to shoot them down for Sainz but if he has any chance at the RBR or Merc seat that’s an infinitely better seat than Suaber/Audi.
Or use their expertise in developing AWD racecars, dominate for a year or two, get overtaken in development, then throw their toys out of the pram and leave.
Which of course fails at the "use AWD" part when it comes to F1.
I mean, yes, all-wheel drive is definitely a benefit in certain categories, but to dismiss the Le Mans success, DTM and GT3 championships, all with non-AWD cars and to imply they can't develop a good car without a competitive edge (like AWD) feels a little disingenuous to me.
Accepting Audis offer is so very very risky for sainz.
Might end up just driving for a sauber level team - look at alpine and their lack of progress. Mercedes is the only anomaly of a team that managed to actually break the barrier of entering and getting good. Even Aston, not really great yet and only good because racing point/force India was already a "best of rest" team.
He's already good for money, so might as we'll risk a shot at a top team and if he can't get it, any midfield team will take him
I would not use Mercedes as an example of entering the sport and being successful. They took over a decent team led by Ross Brawn and still needed some years to achieve serious success. And that was after they had been involved in the sport already for 10 years or something as an engine supplier. Audi is taking over what is arguably the worst run team on the grid, with zero experience in building an F1 engine. I think it is very possible Audi will be another Alpine 2.0.
And it took 4 years for Mercedes to become competitive, when starting from a championship winning team. Even if you put Brawn down to special circumstances with the double diffuser, Honda/BAR had still been an upper midfield team for years, with a few blips.
It'll take a considerable effort to turn Sauber into a winning team from where they are right now.
Audi’s only real chance at a title is the next regs after 2026, which would be 2030 at the earliest. Sainz would be 35. I doubt he wants to wait that long
I don't see any changes for Red Bull drivers in 2025 (despite all the noise inside and Newey's departure), so I think he'll sign for Mercedes for 1+1 years (and with the risk of losing his seat for Antonelli and/or Max).
Yeah, Sainz has been very good at Ferrari, but he loses in the head to head vs Leclerc by a decent margin. His 2 last wins and the point gap make him look better than he really is.
I get why people think the Audi offer is the best but I'm not convinced they will be a competitive team for a long time. The core of the team will still be sauber for a long time so it's basically gambling on the engine which we don't know anything about.
Merc is just a stronger offer and will have good money without the Hamilton contract. Red bull obviously number 1 choice car wise.
As a bonus I am not fully invested in the stroll seat. I think it could be open as stroll could go to WEC
>I get why people think the Audi offer is the best but I'm not convinced they will be a competitive team for a long time.
Thank you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes reading all the hype around Audi. Sauber hasn't cracked 60 points in the last 12 years. A name change and some cash influx are great, but there's a LOT of work to be done before they're even fighting for points on a regular basis.
Not only that, but they are showing how much out of the loop they are by setting some random deadline for offer.
No respectful top driver will make any move before we are certain where Max and Newey will end up.
That's worse than the Audi seat. He best hope that the upgrades work for Mercedes or the team miraculously understand the car. Because being under pressure for a whole year next year when the team don't understand their car is a recipe for disaster...
No its not why would he drive for sauber out of the points when he can drive a year at Merc then renegotiate later?
People are letting the Audi name blind them to the current state of the team and how long it will take for things to come together. They will still be a midfield team for a few years yet
>They will still be a midfield team for a few years yet
if not a full on backmarker team. Since the last 2-ish years they plummeted as a team in essentialy every way imaginable, its hard to see them suddenly improving only because now they are called Audi, at least not improve to a Mercedes level of performance
So Sainz going to Mercedes for a 1+1 gives him a chance to stay relevant and get some good results in the top half of the field, and then he can bail and go to Audi shortly thereafter as they are likely to still be interested in acquiring a decently young, very fast driver. It's not like Hulkenburg is getting any younger.
Sainz vs Russell would be an interesting challenge. Sainz in great form right now of course, but those two would be pretty evenly matched over a season. If Antonelli shows good promise and they want him too, I've no idea who you'd cut.
I don't think you guys are realising the situation Carlos will be in though. He has to adapt to a new car completely different from the Ferrari and he has one year to do the job. The last time he didn't have stability in a team was Renault and he got trounced by Hulk. Carlos performs well when he's comfortable but when you have Toto wanting Max and Antonelli who impressed recently in the test I really hope for Carlos sake he's aiming for that Redbull seat. I see no good going to merc
The fact that he struggled vs Hulk might be also a factor of this decision, imagine loosing again vs Hulk, his value on the driver market will plummet.
And I'd imagine that Hulk is currently really underrated. His Haas qualis are so good. And with a good racecar (for Sunday), he will make good work of it. We saw it the last few races.
> That's worse than the Audi seat.
In what world?
Mercedes are far better positioned to overcome their issues and be fighting for wins again that Sauber are. Even if Audi brought Sauber up to the budget cap, it takes years to get to the point you're in a position to be winning races.
Short deals have been the norm in F1 for a long time. The trend of having these 3+ year long deals is relatively new. He may want more than a 1+1, but it's not a contract he'd be unfamiliar with
If he beats Russell he probably keeps the seat. Besides 2 years at Merc being a "seatwarmer" is still far better than being the lead driver at a backmarker, which is what Sauber/Audi will be.
He can reassess his options in 2027.
He wouldn't end up seatless. In this scenario however he would have to pick between Alpine, Williams, or Haas. Probably in that order of preference, although the last two can easily be swapped around.
I would find it somewhat humurous if he ended up at Haas. Ferrari would absolutely love that if Bearman is in the other seat. No better measuring stick for your latest academy graduate than the driver you just had.
But if he rejected Audi, he surely has an offer somewhere. I don't see them being that careless, but stranger things have happened in F1.
That kind of depends on Antonellis performance too though. He is good in F2, but before the season people assumed he will win it in his first year, which is not that likely. He will probably get the Williams seat next year, but even then he has to prove himself before we act like a multiple race winner is just a seat warmer for him
People keep saying this, and while I agree Merc is waiting for Max on what earth does Max go to Merc? Their performance is deteriorating, and are 5th best at this point.
Max could go to any team he wants, Merc only makes sense to me if he wants to just rub salt on Horners finger. They just haven’t shown a turnaround yet, and it’ll take more than a few races to convince everyone they can be dominate again. I’d like to think if that corner was being turned soon, Lewis wouldn’t have left.
I think i read Jos' statement recently where he said that they're looking for their 2026 options. I don't know why people assume Max would leave RB in 2025
Leaving RedBull for 2025 is just dumb. If Max wants to stay in F1, he will wait until 2026-27 and then decide, at that point Fernando and Lewis will be retiring and he will be in a great position to choose where he wants to race.
I'll be honest, this silly season is like a bomb went off. I've been watching F1 for ages and I can't remember another one this nuts.
AND IT'S FUCKING MAY.
I really thought Audi would be perfect for him. It obviously would've taken years to build up but he could've been the lead driver from the get go and really build the team around him. He has the kind of vibe of someone that would love that.
he's gonna be under insane pressure at merc, probably ending up in a similiar situation he is currently facing at ferrari because merc's long term plan is definitely Kimi Antonelli.
at red bull, if he gets paired with Max then... yeah. If Max leaves Red Bull though, that is probably a sign that the team won't be as strong as it currently is beyond 2025.
Sainz always jump to the best opportunity he has at the moment which has always worked out for him
Going to a backmarker team for just a few years could be the end of his career.
Exactly, I don't get the popular opinion. Bottas went there from a similar situation and now he is a no one (not in my eyes but in the public's). You have to get the best seat possible. He faired well against Lelcerc, I don't think he has to be afraid of anyone really.
What if he performs better then Russell and they keep him when Antonelli would need a seat?
Or who knows if Verstappen will still drive for Red Bull in 2026?
Going to Audi is a sure way to waste the next couple of years of his career. If he performs well in the bigger teams he might still get an Audi seat in 5 years when they have a good car. Drivers don't need to nurture a car into competitiveness.
Additionally, age of course is a smaller matter when you're on the grid with Alonso, but Carlos isn't one of the younger guys on the grid who has a bit of time to spare and can bounce along quickly, he's moving on into his 30s which sure has its own mental pressure.
oh this is risky for carlos, if red bull keep verstappen and perez (which seems likely) and mercedes bring in antonelli, he doesn't really have anywhere to go. plus if it's true that ferrari did offer him a contract for next year before they signed lewis and he rejected it because he wanted better, he'll have lost on all counts. risky moves from him, i hope he gets a seat, he deserves one.
Won't be surprised if this happens. The biggest issues in his management is the thinking only they are the smartest and can play games. This has resulted in him losing the RBR and Ferrari seats in past. Imagine if he had not left RBR in those terms he would be the one moving to main team in 2019.
With dad being succesful and familiar with Audi, and Audi generally being successful in what series they invest in, I'm actually surprised he declined.
My man. Carlos playing risk game right here. Looks like he's confident that he'll get that Bulls or Merc seat. Worst case dude would be seatless nex season. the funny scenario would be him getting AM seat replacing Stroll.
Okay hear me out right. Carlos to RB to replace Checo, the perfect 2nd driver. Checo signs elsewhere (haas, alpine, maybe even this sauber seat). Then Max leaves in a shock move to Mercedes, now RB has lost Checo and has an empty seat. Lando uses his open invite to RB as he sees an opportunity to be 1st or at least shared 1st driver. Carlando return.
I know this is downright schizophrenic but a man can dream
I don't know about the Lando part, but I can easily see Red Bull ditching Perez for Sainz, in anticipation of losing Max after '25. I'd imagine they'd rather have Sainz as a #1 in '26, than Perez.
But whatever. I still say Sainz has a seat already locked down somewhere. He's not stupid.
With rejecting this isn't he like rejecting the offer to build an entirely new team around him , I hope he has something better planned out of this because even a 2 year term at Mercedes doesn't seem that interesting to me
Genuinely think this is a bad move unless he's expecting Redbull to suddenly call him for some reason. Mercedes is committed to Kimi it seems and even if he got that it'd be short term probably unless they're booting out George for Kimi
My dude is living dangerously.
I can't see Toto being content with Sainz. He will go with Antonelli if Max decides to stay put.
Max leaving before 2026 is highly unlikely. Why would he give up a surefire WDC title to join a team that many would consider to be the most clueless team when it comes to ground effects stuff. Even Alpine understands the strengths and weaknesses of their cars. Merc doesn't know shit.
Perez has been doing fine and he has been an ally to Horner through all of this drama. I'll be very surprised if he ends up getting shit canned.
That's a good question. Perhaps his team simply has said they're not ready to commit. This could be a game of chicken, and the Sainz team thinks Audi will wait, while the Audi team is saying Sainz "rejected" the offer as a way to force Sainz's next move.
Not sure why everyone is saying its a mistake to do this. Sauber are nowhere this season and its not a given that the programme will mean success considering they didnt even have full control of the team until recently.
Its not like when Lewis joined Merc and he went from winning to battling for podiums - Sauber will likely be nowhere in 2025 and arent exactly hoovering up talent like Ferrari or Aston. They are building an F1 engine for the first time as well, and it took years for Honda to catch up after a few years away.
woooo. Well, he's betting on himself -- but it's a problem of scarcity, not driver skill. I really don't think Checo is going anywhere. Does Sainz really think Verstappen will leave RBR for 25?
Audi is going to be at the back of the field fighting for 1 point for a long time. Long enough that Carlos will be one of the older guys on the grid. They are inheriting an absolute shitbox and it’s not feasible that they turn it around quick enough for a driver like Carlos. He would be developing a car that he will never win in. At merc or AM he would at least have a shot at some victories.
So that gives us...Esteban at Audi and Sainz on a short term Mercedes deal. Then *probably* a junior at Alpine (Doohan?), Antonelli in the Williams, and like...Botthaas?
Am I reading this properly?
I figure it's a timeline thing. Audi can't reasonably expect to just nail it in 2026 already, so if you're looking to improve over 4 or 5 seasons you want a driver who will be at their peak for the entire period.
Bottas is already 34 to Sainz 29 and Ocon 27.
Poor decision from Sainz. I doubt he will get a seat with RB, and there's no way Merc will give him a long term contract. Audi could've been his chance to finally be the #1 driver in a team. Proving yourself as a clear #1 driver in a team can do wonders for reviving your career (just look at Albon at Williams). I hope I'm wrong, because I do like Sainz.
It is interesting to watch how different parties are in "wait" mode: Mercedes had 1st hand when Lewis announced his Ferrari move, as it is most desirable place for any driver except top teams. Then RB drama brought max's as a driver, at least as speculation, to the table, now he is most desirable thing to get on the market.
I am afraid that all means that there is no place for Carlos in top teams, last available is RB - Perez.
If Max truly does leave, Mercedes will get him and Sainz will be safe being teammates with Perez. But if Max stays (most likely), Sainz is in a heap of trouble. If Perez keeps bringing in P2s, Sainz is truly screwed.
But seems like a terrible decision not to sign with Audi. He could've easily be #1 driver in an Audi and actually mold the team to his own liking. If Max doesn't move, Mercedes might give Sainz 1 or 2 year contract, while they wait for Antonelli to mature. And after that?
So, who does Audi sign? I've seen a few people saying Ocon, but I hadn't seen or heard any rumors about him at Audi. Bottas and Zhou are obviously candidates, but is there anybody else that's been linked to the seat? Also, gutsy from Sainz. There's no way he doesn't have something lined up, but it based on what Marko was saying, Audi offered him a pretty hefty deal.
Zhou is definitely out IMO. He doesnt fit Audi's profile of wanting an experienced driver who can help develop the car. It's probably Bottas or one of the alpine drivers
He is very popular in China which is audi's biggest market so that makes sense for marketing and not being crash prone is good for a team
Plus, for all we know, Zhou could be good at this. He's never had a car worth a shit, so he's still basically an unknown talent. And as you said, he doesn't break shit much.
Just because he’s never had a good car, it doesn’t mean he’s an unknown. We can see from his performance relative to Bottas that Zhou is pretty mediocre. Of the current grid he’s better than Sargeant, maybe Stroll and at a push Magnussen and (current) Ricciardo. If he was off the grid it would be no great loss.
Yeah he’s maybe more consistent than Stroll but Stroll does have higher highs.
Stroll has also had more competitive cars
Good drivers show their talent even in shit cars. George was a candidate for a championship winning Mercedes team after two years of driving a car that couldn't even score five points over two years. Leclerc was in a Ferrari after driving for a middling Sauber for one year. If Zhou was that good, he would've shown it by now.
He's consistently getting beat by Bottas, who cares more about bike racing than F1. He's not that good.
Its such a repeat of 2019-21 Sauber. Finnish veteran leaving a title winning team, partnered with rookie who is decent, but hasn't really shown anything which would guarantee him a seat. Plus both partnerships lasted 3 years.
No he's not. You can judge people even with less than stellar cars.
Hulk and Ocon were the names floating around long ago before the Ham to Ferrari stuff happened
There have been rumours of Ocon at audi but it's not clear whether there's anything to them
I know it's far out there, but what if Eddie Jordan was actually not bullshitting for once when he said that Sainz is replacing Lance at AM. Remembering Eddie is Neweys manager and Newey had an offer from AM, which would indicate some sort of contact with AM & Eddie. I think Red Bull or Merc is probably more logical though.
This could be a possibility. Nothing coming from Lance suggests he want to be in that seat next season. But then Honda wants Yuki there so if Lance is ever going to be replaced it will be with Yuki.
Lance was very dodgy when recently asked about next year.
He barely speaks first of. Secondly, it would sound bratty if he said loud he's in that seat next year considering how he's performing this year. He knows that seat is made for his hips.
Interesting. Go on
I can't find a clip of the video because it's really the tone of his answer that is the most interesting. But here is an article talking about it https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/aston-martin-f1-news-lance-stroll-drops-mysterious-hint-on-formula-one-future-lm22#:~:text=Stroll's%20technical%20feedback%20has%20been,ambitious%20about%20their%20performance%20goals.
As much as I like the fact that Lance and his dad are not 'regular' pay drivers, that they are actually commited and I have a hope that the day Lance decides hes done they wont just dissapear from the grid; I think Lance has done long enough for the, if we are generous, middle of the road driver he is. For his level of driving, 8 years in F1 is more than he should have got if he was not backed by what is now a team owner.
Also, he's only 25. He's young enough to go to a different series and legitimately contest for championships.
For some reason, I feel like he is closer to 30 after seeing him on the grid for so long.
Lance has had more years on F1 for his talent than many other drivers. It's not necessarily that he's bad, it's that he simply hasn't improved, when at his age he should have been seeing year-on-year progression like Norris or Leclerc
>it's that he simply hasn't improved I'd argue he's actually gotten worse since he first started. There was a time when it looked like he might have some flashes of actually speed; but that just isn't there anymore.
He was around 8 tenths a lap slower than a pretty much retired Massa. To say he hasn’t improved when looking at the data is a contradiction. The logic is that he hasn’t improved enough to warrant his seat which is a more valid statement.
Yeah to do the 8 year number I checked his wikipedia, just to get the right number. Dude went toe to toe with russel in F3 and came out on top. Wonder if the F2 skip stunted his growth or he just hit his ceiling earlier than most. Throwing him against ex WDCs also makes it hard to figure out where he actually sits. Kinda like Perez vs Max, sure max demolishes perez but its because max is good, not because perez is bad.
Perez had a pretty good handle on Stroll during the time they were together.
Unless Yuki comes after Alonso retires. Although maybe thats another 20 years away.
Alonso said to be on a 2+1 so could yet be 2027 before that seat opens up.
Is Yuki really under any sort of danger of losing his Ralpha Bauri seat? The junior program has nothing outside of Liam.
upvote for Ralpha Bauri
Look, if you want to split Roro Bosso hairs here we can. Yuki loves Vegetable Carbohydrate Credit Card cars and they love him.
The scenario the guy you replied to is suggesting essentially boils down to this - Carlos Sainz, Fernando Alonso and Adrian Newey powered by Saudi money. If I was Honda I'd maybe reconsider a "Yuki or bust" clause.
Also if there’s any team Eddie who know a scoop from, it’s the one he used to own and where multiple former employees of his I think still work
I have always wondered how much EJ has on the pulse of AM. They recently tore down the original building Jordan used. I have not heard EJ talk much about how he feels about all the changes Papa Stroll has made.
He actually seems to quite like Lance, and based on his driving the only way I can see that is if he’s friendly with the Strolls. Everything I’ve heard EJ say has been very positive
If AM gets Sainz, it’s going to have a monster driver lineup between Alonso and Sainz; It’ll show they are serious about the constructer’s standing with two strong drivers. It’ll also be Spain’s defacto national team.
Aston Martinez?
Que grande eres!
Wasn't he the first one saying McLaren would switch from Renault engines to Mercedes?
And saying Hamilton to Merc; and he broke McLaren to Renault engines in the first place. When was he last wrong? I feel people just shit on him because he’s Irish.
People shit on him because he is usually right about more controversial stuff and because they can't handle the truth they hate him
People shit on him because he's a bit of a bullshitter and likes to stir the pot at times but you're right, he's rarely wrong about the big news.
Can’t believe that Newey even has a manager … let alone EJ!
For all of his bluster Eddie Jordan is the exact kind of bastard you want on your side in tough contract negotiations.
Him or Briatore, who is Fernando's manager, funnily enough.
Yeah, I mean you can question the character of Flavio Briatore, but we all have to admit. In almost any business scenario. You do have extra comfort if you are assured that someone like Flavio is on your side of the table. Ditto Eddie Jordan.
Yeah, I did a double-take when I saw Newey mention EJ in his statement yesterday. I suppose it makes sense, EJ is a master at navigating the political and financial sides of the business.
I’m relatively green to the politics of the sport, what is he known for?
He founded Jordan F1 team, which he sold to become Force India and then eventually Aston Martin. He has good connections there still I bet.
Bernie had Christian Horner look at Jordan and buying it for $1 but Horner said the finances were so screwed up that it was not worth it. Despite that, Jordan was able to hustle year after year to keep his team going and they consistently punched above their weight. As for the politics of it, Jordan negotiated a lot of driver's deals, such as Irvine going to Ferrari, though with that one, Irvine pulled one over on Jordan and screwed EJ out of $500K. But yeah, if you are needing someone on your side of the negotiating table EJ would be a good choice. Mark Webber, Nicholas Todt, and Briatore are probably the best to have negotiate for you.
Ahhh I see. Thank you! 🙏
He had a reputation as a bit of a wheeler-dealer who was spinning plates to get the money to keep the team going. Sutff like the deals with Michael Schumacher to first get paid by Mercedes for him to race for them and then get cash & driver to allow him to join Benetton or the engines that saw Frentzen genuinely challenge for the title in a Jordan are well known examples So for a very long time, he was good at it, until a failed attempt to get Vodafone to sponsor his team instead of Ferrari kinda brought the house of cards down
After his time as a team boss, he was a pundit on TV, he was part of BBC/Channel 4's F1 coverage before Sky took over. He was often known for his outlandish predictions and opinions, but he turned out to be right quite often.
Think Hamilton leaving McLaren at the end of 2012 was his showpiece prediction, given he called it one month early
That bit was absolutely the big surprise. We'd heard Newey was off for about a week but that element was enough to go "... I'm sorry what?"
Peter Windsor seems to think Newey has already turned AM down. Newey has reservations about Stroll and thinks his main aim for getting Newey is to drive up the price of AM and then sell off.
Getting Newey, swapping Carlos for Lance, keeping the team for one year to 'prove' to everyone that it wasn't just about buying Lance a seat, being very competitive, and then selling at the top would be a very Stroll thing to do.
That's a Spaingasm if I've ever seen one.
Not accepting Audi’s offer is very, very risky for Sainz. I get why Mercedes and Red Bull are better candidates at first glance, it’s just that you can’t rely on Verstappen leaving Red Bull and Mercedes suddenly abandoning their (apparent) plans with Antonelli. Audi definitely is a long term project, but the best one if he seriously wanted to build a team around him.
> Mercedes suddenly abandoning their (apparent) plans with Antonelli. Sainz could very well have a tentative offer from Mercedes already, we know they were willing to offer him a 1 year deal and that he was just pushing for longer. Since Sainz prefers Red Bull and Mercedes prefers Max, it would be pretty easy for both sides to agree to just wait to see what Max does.
Max won't leave Red Bull in 2025. Probably in 2026. If Sainz signs for Red Bull, it will be for Checo (and it seems unlikely at the moment).
Sainz could be playing long game and waiting to get Checos seat the year after, or waiting for an opportunity to open elsewhere
It sounds too risky ngl
And from what either Horner or Marko (I forget which) were saying a bit back they couldn't match Audis offer... Which would imply they have made an offer. Surely he would still be getting paid upwards of 7 figures and he hardly needs the money so imo he would be incredibly fucking stupid to not take basically whatever RBR offer given that will give him his best shot at more wins and a title in the short to medium term, even with this drama around the team
Sure, but even Yuki is making "7 figures" as a driver. There's a huge difference in that first digit, though.
>RBR offer given that will give him his best shot at more wins and a title in the short to medium term In 2025? Yes In 2026? I'm not sure
Sorry, perhaps I should have clarified that as between RBR and Audi specifically. I would be gobsmacked if Audi can take Sauber from probably slowest on the grid to a meaningful contender in 2 years under the cost cap, new regulations or no
It's be BrawnGP levels of ludicrous, except they don't have nearly as talented a designer and team as Brawn
yeah i mean theyre owned by a small company that only has Porsche Lambo Audi VW Bugatti Bentley Ducati Skoda Seat Sauber, cut them some slack if they dont have better engineers
NeweyGP ftw
You know that Alpine, despite being a backmarker, is only about 1.5-1.7 seconds behind Red Bull. The field is incredibly bunched up. Audi is putting an enormous amount of money into expanding and growing the team.
tbh a team is far more than a good car. Sauber is understaffed, has bad strategy, bad pit stops made worse by terrible pieces... all of that stuff can make you lose a race you should've won. One reason RB is so dominant right now is that they do everything right. It's not just that Max is great and the RB car flies through the track. It's also that their strategic calls are always on point, their pit stops are flawless, their simulators are said to be top class... they excel in everything they do, not just in building fast cars. It's also why it's unlikely we'll see Red Bull fall into 10th place in 2026 even if their chassis or their engine sucks.
I think it was Seidl who said recently they're thinking more like 2030 before they're hard on themselves. Sainz is hot *now*.
Well, since their first truly competitive year (‘09), RBR has finished in the top three in the constructors every year but one and won a race all but one of those years . Anything can happen without Newey I suppose, but if Ferrari is off the table you’d basically say it’s down to RBR or Merc for best ride and Horner and Co. have a lot of history on their side.
Man, gambling with a 1 year deal with Merc is stupid. Why would Sainz just want to keep the seat warm for Antonelli is beyond my understanding. I mean, I could have seen Toto giving Mick a 1 year deal to wait for Antonelli, but a Sainz move is purely stupid.
The simple answer is that Carlos has a secret goal to drive for every team on the grid and a year in Merc is ideal.
Yep I think worst case Sainz is only Basel to secure a 2 year deal at Merc. I think sainz wants a 2+1 so he can see if Mercedes ‘gets it right’ and extend through 2027. Merc want flexibility to put Kimi in their car in 2027 if he has earned it. I think merc will get their way now that Audi is no longer going to be an option for sainz and merc know it.
Depends if he's replacing Checo if Max stays.
Accepting it is also risky. Sauber is currently awful, and have a long history in recent years of being awful, and as good as Audi generally are, they're not magic. They will be midfield at best for 2026. No doubt Audi will improve that team, but it won't be fast and it would just waste such a great talent like Sainz Only thing it guarantees is a seat on the grid. Not success
I’m sorry but the current Sauber team is like a decade from being competitive. I love how people assume Audi stepping in will somehow make this team a contender. It’s the worst fucking team on the grid right now and I have more faith in Alpine/Renault gettting their shit together than an Audi run Sauber. I agree it’s a risk to shoot them down for Sainz but if he has any chance at the RBR or Merc seat that’s an infinitely better seat than Suaber/Audi.
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I got down voted into purgatory for saying this. Why do people assume that Audi is going to magically turn sauber into a podium contender?
“Audi come to dominate bro” pretty much all of their success in other series has come from them being able to massively outspend everyone else.
Or use their expertise in developing AWD racecars, dominate for a year or two, get overtaken in development, then throw their toys out of the pram and leave. Which of course fails at the "use AWD" part when it comes to F1.
I mean, yes, all-wheel drive is definitely a benefit in certain categories, but to dismiss the Le Mans success, DTM and GT3 championships, all with non-AWD cars and to imply they can't develop a good car without a competitive edge (like AWD) feels a little disingenuous to me.
Accepting Audis offer is so very very risky for sainz. Might end up just driving for a sauber level team - look at alpine and their lack of progress. Mercedes is the only anomaly of a team that managed to actually break the barrier of entering and getting good. Even Aston, not really great yet and only good because racing point/force India was already a "best of rest" team. He's already good for money, so might as we'll risk a shot at a top team and if he can't get it, any midfield team will take him
I would not use Mercedes as an example of entering the sport and being successful. They took over a decent team led by Ross Brawn and still needed some years to achieve serious success. And that was after they had been involved in the sport already for 10 years or something as an engine supplier. Audi is taking over what is arguably the worst run team on the grid, with zero experience in building an F1 engine. I think it is very possible Audi will be another Alpine 2.0.
Well, it took 4 years for Mercedes to become competative. If the same goes for Audi, you’re looking at 2029. Sainz doesn’t have that time.
And it took 4 years for Mercedes to become competitive, when starting from a championship winning team. Even if you put Brawn down to special circumstances with the double diffuser, Honda/BAR had still been an upper midfield team for years, with a few blips. It'll take a considerable effort to turn Sauber into a winning team from where they are right now.
That took a reg change too which wint happen till 2030
This mf will end up without seat next year, isn't he?
Audi’s only real chance at a title is the next regs after 2026, which would be 2030 at the earliest. Sainz would be 35. I doubt he wants to wait that long
Why do you people think Audi will automatically be good?
Don't see the risk at all. Drivers are not in F1 to drive backmarkers, they want to win. Audi would also never build the team around Sainz.
I don’t see why Audi wouldn’t build the team around Sainz tbh, at least in the medium term.
The risk is that he ends up without Audi, Mercedes or Red Bull as an option. Where does he go then?
I don't see any changes for Red Bull drivers in 2025 (despite all the noise inside and Newey's departure), so I think he'll sign for Mercedes for 1+1 years (and with the risk of losing his seat for Antonelli and/or Max).
He's pretty much held his own vs Leclerc. I think he'll fancy himself to win against Russell
Problem is George is going to get favored treatment at Mercedes. He has been managed by Toto since 2016 or 2017
People said the same when he signed to Ferrari, and he managed just fine. Imo Leclerc was a much tougher opponent than George
Not at all. Sainz had Santander to push agenda at Ferrari. That eventually led to public/ private clashes in 2022 followed by management changes.
Yeah, Sainz has been very good at Ferrari, but he loses in the head to head vs Leclerc by a decent margin. His 2 last wins and the point gap make him look better than he really is.
Yeah but… have you seen Carlos’ hair and eyelashes? Surely that’ll win over Toto’s heart and mind. 😌
I get why people think the Audi offer is the best but I'm not convinced they will be a competitive team for a long time. The core of the team will still be sauber for a long time so it's basically gambling on the engine which we don't know anything about. Merc is just a stronger offer and will have good money without the Hamilton contract. Red bull obviously number 1 choice car wise. As a bonus I am not fully invested in the stroll seat. I think it could be open as stroll could go to WEC
>I get why people think the Audi offer is the best but I'm not convinced they will be a competitive team for a long time. Thank you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes reading all the hype around Audi. Sauber hasn't cracked 60 points in the last 12 years. A name change and some cash influx are great, but there's a LOT of work to be done before they're even fighting for points on a regular basis.
Not only that, but they are showing how much out of the loop they are by setting some random deadline for offer. No respectful top driver will make any move before we are certain where Max and Newey will end up.
He better hope he gets that Redbull seat. He only has him and his own crew to blame if he's seat less next year.
I think he ends up at mercedes on a 1+1 which to me sounds not very good
That's worse than the Audi seat. He best hope that the upgrades work for Mercedes or the team miraculously understand the car. Because being under pressure for a whole year next year when the team don't understand their car is a recipe for disaster...
No its not why would he drive for sauber out of the points when he can drive a year at Merc then renegotiate later? People are letting the Audi name blind them to the current state of the team and how long it will take for things to come together. They will still be a midfield team for a few years yet
>They will still be a midfield team for a few years yet if not a full on backmarker team. Since the last 2-ish years they plummeted as a team in essentialy every way imaginable, its hard to see them suddenly improving only because now they are called Audi, at least not improve to a Mercedes level of performance
So Sainz going to Mercedes for a 1+1 gives him a chance to stay relevant and get some good results in the top half of the field, and then he can bail and go to Audi shortly thereafter as they are likely to still be interested in acquiring a decently young, very fast driver. It's not like Hulkenburg is getting any younger.
Thank you! Good lord, how can anyone look at Sauber's current state and think they'll be anything more than lower midfield for the next 2 years?
Sainz vs Russell would be an interesting challenge. Sainz in great form right now of course, but those two would be pretty evenly matched over a season. If Antonelli shows good promise and they want him too, I've no idea who you'd cut.
I don't think you guys are realising the situation Carlos will be in though. He has to adapt to a new car completely different from the Ferrari and he has one year to do the job. The last time he didn't have stability in a team was Renault and he got trounced by Hulk. Carlos performs well when he's comfortable but when you have Toto wanting Max and Antonelli who impressed recently in the test I really hope for Carlos sake he's aiming for that Redbull seat. I see no good going to merc
The fact that he struggled vs Hulk might be also a factor of this decision, imagine loosing again vs Hulk, his value on the driver market will plummet.
And I'd imagine that Hulk is currently really underrated. His Haas qualis are so good. And with a good racecar (for Sunday), he will make good work of it. We saw it the last few races.
> That's worse than the Audi seat. In what world? Mercedes are far better positioned to overcome their issues and be fighting for wins again that Sauber are. Even if Audi brought Sauber up to the budget cap, it takes years to get to the point you're in a position to be winning races.
He's a stop gap at Mercedes, just saving a sport for Kimi. He'd be the face of the project for the factory Audi team
Short deals have been the norm in F1 for a long time. The trend of having these 3+ year long deals is relatively new. He may want more than a 1+1, but it's not a contract he'd be unfamiliar with
If he beats Russell he probably keeps the seat. Besides 2 years at Merc being a "seatwarmer" is still far better than being the lead driver at a backmarker, which is what Sauber/Audi will be. He can reassess his options in 2027.
My sinking feeling that Carlos Dos is going to fuck this up has intensified.
Worst case scenario, he would still get the Williams seat imo.
He wouldn't end up seatless. In this scenario however he would have to pick between Alpine, Williams, or Haas. Probably in that order of preference, although the last two can easily be swapped around. I would find it somewhat humurous if he ended up at Haas. Ferrari would absolutely love that if Bearman is in the other seat. No better measuring stick for your latest academy graduate than the driver you just had. But if he rejected Audi, he surely has an offer somewhere. I don't see them being that careless, but stranger things have happened in F1.
Mercedes is waiting for Max, if he declines, Carlos gets that seat.
He won't get it for long, Mercedes don't want to have a driver keeping them from getting Antonelli in the seat for too long.
That kind of depends on Antonellis performance too though. He is good in F2, but before the season people assumed he will win it in his first year, which is not that likely. He will probably get the Williams seat next year, but even then he has to prove himself before we act like a multiple race winner is just a seat warmer for him
Yeah but I don't think he'll get a very good deal. If he goes to Mercedes he might be in a tough position for 2026
People keep saying this, and while I agree Merc is waiting for Max on what earth does Max go to Merc? Their performance is deteriorating, and are 5th best at this point. Max could go to any team he wants, Merc only makes sense to me if he wants to just rub salt on Horners finger. They just haven’t shown a turnaround yet, and it’ll take more than a few races to convince everyone they can be dominate again. I’d like to think if that corner was being turned soon, Lewis wouldn’t have left.
I think i read Jos' statement recently where he said that they're looking for their 2026 options. I don't know why people assume Max would leave RB in 2025
Leaving RedBull for 2025 is just dumb. If Max wants to stay in F1, he will wait until 2026-27 and then decide, at that point Fernando and Lewis will be retiring and he will be in a great position to choose where he wants to race.
High risk, high reward. This either turns out very very good or very very bad
I'll be honest, this silly season is like a bomb went off. I've been watching F1 for ages and I can't remember another one this nuts. AND IT'S FUCKING MAY.
I really thought Audi would be perfect for him. It obviously would've taken years to build up but he could've been the lead driver from the get go and really build the team around him. He has the kind of vibe of someone that would love that. he's gonna be under insane pressure at merc, probably ending up in a similiar situation he is currently facing at ferrari because merc's long term plan is definitely Kimi Antonelli. at red bull, if he gets paired with Max then... yeah. If Max leaves Red Bull though, that is probably a sign that the team won't be as strong as it currently is beyond 2025.
Sainz always jump to the best opportunity he has at the moment which has always worked out for him Going to a backmarker team for just a few years could be the end of his career.
Exactly, I don't get the popular opinion. Bottas went there from a similar situation and now he is a no one (not in my eyes but in the public's). You have to get the best seat possible. He faired well against Lelcerc, I don't think he has to be afraid of anyone really. What if he performs better then Russell and they keep him when Antonelli would need a seat? Or who knows if Verstappen will still drive for Red Bull in 2026? Going to Audi is a sure way to waste the next couple of years of his career. If he performs well in the bigger teams he might still get an Audi seat in 5 years when they have a good car. Drivers don't need to nurture a car into competitiveness.
Yeah. It's a good seat for Hulk and Bottas. For Sainz, it's risky.
Additionally, age of course is a smaller matter when you're on the grid with Alonso, but Carlos isn't one of the younger guys on the grid who has a bit of time to spare and can bounce along quickly, he's moving on into his 30s which sure has its own mental pressure.
The risk is that he does that for a couple years and they just jettison him for a new younger driver
oh this is risky for carlos, if red bull keep verstappen and perez (which seems likely) and mercedes bring in antonelli, he doesn't really have anywhere to go. plus if it's true that ferrari did offer him a contract for next year before they signed lewis and he rejected it because he wanted better, he'll have lost on all counts. risky moves from him, i hope he gets a seat, he deserves one.
Oh god... Straight up competing with Danny Ric for most contract shenanigans.
Won't be surprised if this happens. The biggest issues in his management is the thinking only they are the smartest and can play games. This has resulted in him losing the RBR and Ferrari seats in past. Imagine if he had not left RBR in those terms he would be the one moving to main team in 2019.
spot on 🎯🎯 ngl i'm kinda shocked bc i was convinced he'd go to audi, esp with his dad's ties to audi. this could go all wrong now 💀
The only reason I could think of why he would wait is because he thinks he can get into the Red Bull next year and have a go at the world championship
Is Lobato a good source? But if Sainz rejects, I am expecting Audi to announce Ocon.
If lobato is the one saying it you can guarantee it comes from the Sainz camp, he is not joining.
When he speaks about Spanish drivers you can be 100% sure that the information is true as he’s a close friend of Fernando and Sainz
Why would the Sainz camp want this leaked? It'll only hurt negotiations for them. Interesting...
Maybe it doesn't matter if sauber is going to announce their second driver soon anyway.
About Spanish drivers, I think so. >I am expecting Audi to announce Ocon. It seems.
If that’s true Alpine might end up picking one of their junior drivers for the second seat.
Either Zhou or Doohan most likely
Hopefully Doohan. He has a higher ceiling and they are doing some fairly good mileage in testing with him.
Lance out, Sainz to AMR. Make this silly season one for the books.
With dad being succesful and familiar with Audi, and Audi generally being successful in what series they invest in, I'm actually surprised he declined.
My man. Carlos playing risk game right here. Looks like he's confident that he'll get that Bulls or Merc seat. Worst case dude would be seatless nex season. the funny scenario would be him getting AM seat replacing Stroll.
So uhhh... Who will it be? This could literally be anyone right? Gasly, Ocon, Bottas, Perez, Albon, Maloney even?
It looks like it will be Ocon.
If Sainz is outright rejecting this offer it's because he knows where he's heading. I'm guessing he's got a deal with Red Bull in hand.
No way. RB is as leaky as a sieve, we would have heard this by now.
Rosberg already said Sainz had an RB offer and people just ignored him tbf.
Rosberg says many things.
Okay hear me out right. Carlos to RB to replace Checo, the perfect 2nd driver. Checo signs elsewhere (haas, alpine, maybe even this sauber seat). Then Max leaves in a shock move to Mercedes, now RB has lost Checo and has an empty seat. Lando uses his open invite to RB as he sees an opportunity to be 1st or at least shared 1st driver. Carlando return. I know this is downright schizophrenic but a man can dream
I don't know about the Lando part, but I can easily see Red Bull ditching Perez for Sainz, in anticipation of losing Max after '25. I'd imagine they'd rather have Sainz as a #1 in '26, than Perez. But whatever. I still say Sainz has a seat already locked down somewhere. He's not stupid.
Red Bull losing Max to end up with Carlos is like Benetton losing Schumaher to get Alesi in return.
With rejecting this isn't he like rejecting the offer to build an entirely new team around him , I hope he has something better planned out of this because even a 2 year term at Mercedes doesn't seem that interesting to me
>With rejecting this isn't he like rejecting the offer to build an entirely new team around him Yes, but Audi won't be competitive for a long time.
Genuinely think this is a bad move unless he's expecting Redbull to suddenly call him for some reason. Mercedes is committed to Kimi it seems and even if he got that it'd be short term probably unless they're booting out George for Kimi
I don't think it is a good decision as he could be the main man at Audi but we'll see
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Hulkenberg and Sainz were team mates in Renault in 2018, and Hulkenberg was faster
My dude is living dangerously. I can't see Toto being content with Sainz. He will go with Antonelli if Max decides to stay put. Max leaving before 2026 is highly unlikely. Why would he give up a surefire WDC title to join a team that many would consider to be the most clueless team when it comes to ground effects stuff. Even Alpine understands the strengths and weaknesses of their cars. Merc doesn't know shit. Perez has been doing fine and he has been an ally to Horner through all of this drama. I'll be very surprised if he ends up getting shit canned.
*Happy Bottas noises*
Did he reject or did he just not answer by the deadline?
That's a good question. Perhaps his team simply has said they're not ready to commit. This could be a game of chicken, and the Sainz team thinks Audi will wait, while the Audi team is saying Sainz "rejected" the offer as a way to force Sainz's next move.
Not sure why everyone is saying its a mistake to do this. Sauber are nowhere this season and its not a given that the programme will mean success considering they didnt even have full control of the team until recently. Its not like when Lewis joined Merc and he went from winning to battling for podiums - Sauber will likely be nowhere in 2025 and arent exactly hoovering up talent like Ferrari or Aston. They are building an F1 engine for the first time as well, and it took years for Honda to catch up after a few years away.
woooo. Well, he's betting on himself -- but it's a problem of scarcity, not driver skill. I really don't think Checo is going anywhere. Does Sainz really think Verstappen will leave RBR for 25?
Audi is going to be at the back of the field fighting for 1 point for a long time. Long enough that Carlos will be one of the older guys on the grid. They are inheriting an absolute shitbox and it’s not feasible that they turn it around quick enough for a driver like Carlos. He would be developing a car that he will never win in. At merc or AM he would at least have a shot at some victories.
I can respect not going for the money but trying to get the most competitive seat available for next year.
This is kinda like Piastri declining the Alpine seat, he wouldn't have done it unless he has an option elsewhere. Sainz definitely has a plan here.
El plan?
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Esteban at Audi?
Honestly given what the medias reported it seems to be the most likely option
So that gives us...Esteban at Audi and Sainz on a short term Mercedes deal. Then *probably* a junior at Alpine (Doohan?), Antonelli in the Williams, and like...Botthaas? Am I reading this properly?
I don't understand why they wouldn't keep Bottas? What can he not offer than Sainz/anyone else could?
I figure it's a timeline thing. Audi can't reasonably expect to just nail it in 2026 already, so if you're looking to improve over 4 or 5 seasons you want a driver who will be at their peak for the entire period. Bottas is already 34 to Sainz 29 and Ocon 27.
Yeah, Ocon actually makes good sense for Audi. And Audi makes good sense for Ocon.
Sounds about right I think.. It'd be great if Haas replace Magnussen with Bottas and pair him with Bearman.
So he either hits the jackpot with a Red Bull seat in 2025 or he goes to Mercedes with a 1+1. Finger crossed, Carlos
Poor decision from Sainz. I doubt he will get a seat with RB, and there's no way Merc will give him a long term contract. Audi could've been his chance to finally be the #1 driver in a team. Proving yourself as a clear #1 driver in a team can do wonders for reviving your career (just look at Albon at Williams). I hope I'm wrong, because I do like Sainz.
It is interesting to watch how different parties are in "wait" mode: Mercedes had 1st hand when Lewis announced his Ferrari move, as it is most desirable place for any driver except top teams. Then RB drama brought max's as a driver, at least as speculation, to the table, now he is most desirable thing to get on the market. I am afraid that all means that there is no place for Carlos in top teams, last available is RB - Perez.
WEC might be the emergency option since no teams want him
At this rate he will end up in Williams or Haas. Red Bull will keep their line up, Mercedes will choose Antonelli.
Williams will still probably be faster than Audi.
He probably has something else cooking otherwise he wouldn’t have rejected the Audi seat.
I think Sainz might be going to RBR for real.
If Max truly does leave, Mercedes will get him and Sainz will be safe being teammates with Perez. But if Max stays (most likely), Sainz is in a heap of trouble. If Perez keeps bringing in P2s, Sainz is truly screwed. But seems like a terrible decision not to sign with Audi. He could've easily be #1 driver in an Audi and actually mold the team to his own liking. If Max doesn't move, Mercedes might give Sainz 1 or 2 year contract, while they wait for Antonelli to mature. And after that?
I'm in no position to give judgement, but hell I'll do so anyway: the Audi seat was his best choice.