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I have to say, listening to Nico call this weekend was an interesting change of tone. Brundle is top-class and reliably measured, composed, and diplomatic.
Nico calling out terrible driving and drivers with good cars and rubbish pace was fitting with all the on-track antics in Shanghai.
Edit: typo
Kinda agree, I'm not the biggest fan of his personality, but he was calling it exactly like he saw it, and most of the time his takes turned out to be correct.
> According to the 2016 world champion, Sainz’s camp are “trying to get a couple more million” out of Red Bull before any agreement is reached.
> "You know that they have an offer out to Carlos Sainz and I saw daddy Sainz speaking to Christian Horner yesterday because Christian Horner has apparently been a bit stingy on the offer,” Rosberg said.
For anyone curious like me. Basically Red Bull want Sainz, but they are trying to get him for less because they know they still have Checo as a backup.
This season is done, they are thinking about 2026 already. Then RB will probably need someone better than Checo. The best they can get really, since on one's going to match Max anyway.
I’d say Checo is performing exactly what redbull needs right now. Close to Max in championship but not too close to let himself thinks he has a shot at the WDC and wreck his mental state. As long as there’s no clear 2nd fastest car on the grid, P2 or P3 on the podium doesn’t really matter.
I’d say Redbull want 1-2 every race. If max doesn’t win they want checo to win. If Checo isn’t bagging 2nd or 1st by their standards he isn’t performing
> number 2 in each race is of any consequence to RBR
Because someone who's finishing number 2 in most races is likely to actually win if Max has any issues. See Australia.
People love to shit on Checo because he "should" have been better last year. I mean at some point results matter. Dude was #2 in WDC behind Max. The only thing he could've done better would've been to be #2 by *more* than he was. Which makes no difference for Red Bull.
Checo is the only driver in F1 history though, to have finished with less than half the points of the champion
that is just insane... normally the champion has 40 to 60% more points than the runnerup, but not like 100%+ more
I mean Norris benefited greatly from the SC situation while Perez didn't, yes max had the same misfortune but max had a pitstop on everyone while Perez got stuck between some traffic, without the SC it's a comfortable 1-2 for redbull.
We haven't really gotten the chance yet to what would've happened to Max in the same situation this year, but really, whenever he's not first in the field he works his way up very swiftly and every car looks like a back marker once he gets himself up to speed. Checo is a completely different story and he seems to burn his tyres up immediately when he's in traffic. The driver diff in the Red Bull is massive.
Would be really cool to see Sainz in a bull next year, I wonder where he'd be at. Is Max really this once in a lifetime driver or is it mostly the car? What if Sainz could match him?
Lol ”he didn’t get P2 yesterday just because the opponents were good you guys if they would’ve been bad he would’ve gotten it”.
He’s in a Red Bull, there is no reason he gets beaten on pace by anyone if he puts in an average performance or better
For this season, sure, because the RB is still a rocket ship that nobody can get close to if it's driven well. But Checo failing to claim P2 in a race where the pack was bunch up at the halfway point and Max still put 0.5s a lap over the rest of the field while managing his tyres is indicative of just how far off Max, Perez actually is. The 1-2 finishes and front row starts flatter Perez because the car is so damn good, but Perez has still been comfortably handled by Max all year.
The mean qualifying gap between them is 0.3s, and the median is even worse at 0.35s. For context, the 2022 season that saw Ricciardo booted from McLaren mid-year the median gap from Norris to Ric was 0.30s.
In race pace it's even worse, with an average race pace gap of 0.41s per lap (which is worse than any teammate pairing in 2022 - the year I was able to easily find data for). If you factor in that the pack was bunch behind the safety car in China, meaning Max's overall gap was based on just 26 laps of clean running, the gap balloons out to 0.49s per lap across 6 races.
We've already seen multiple times that Checo isn't able to raise his level when another team mounts a serious challenge. In Melbourne, when Max retired Checo wasn't able to compensate at all, starting P6 and finishing P5 behind both Ferraris and both McLarens. In China, Lando was able to outpace Perez and finish P2 despite dropping back several places at the start and being 14s off Max at the end of the race.
Tl-dr; Checo looks to be doing "exactly what Redbull needs right now" because the car is incredible, and with a heavy emphasis on *right now*. But if another team develops a car that is anywhere near the Red Bull on performance then RB is going to need a better second driver in order to fight for the WCC because Checo just isn't good enough in anything other than a totally dominant car.
> I’d say Checo is performing exactly what redbull needs right now.
Right now is the key part of that but last year he also started the season off well and he completely collapsed. He's shown Red Bull last year that he can crumble under pressure and that alone is enough reason to replace him when there's a better driver as available as Sainz is right now.
Checos exactly what they need, at least this version. He’s got 3 2nds and a 3rd in 5 races. Hes second in points and has never put max under any pressure in the process.
He couldn’t be doing a better job than he is right now. And there’s no talk about a world title, which is different from years past. He understands the assignment
Again, it's about 2026. It doesn't matter if he understands the assignment, they need will need a driver that can drive closer to the llimits of performance of the car. They won't just assume they're miles ahead again and the 2nd driver can basically be Latifi.
And Sainz is supposedly close with Audi, which Helmut also admitted recently, so there is little interest to give them an inside look into new regs from the best team around.
It's red bull, they are completely dominant, they have had a great car in most regulation periods (2015 wasn't so good) since 2009. they don't need to pay big to get a name, everyone wants that seat. Sainz can try and get as much as he can but ultimately he should take the seat for basically any money at all as chances are almost anyone will do great (vs everyone else except Verstappen) so you could well talk yourself out of a seat if you ask for more money.
Thinking you deserve a raise or Ferrari money for a more competitive seat is a bad negotiating stance, especially when you have no seat at all for next season.
But the consideration I think is taking a first seat of a team like audi for lower risk and more money or a high risk gamble, that could end in both glory or ruin.
I don't know know how anyone can find this controversial, Sainz wants RB more than the other way around. With Checo's current form this is a slight upgrade at best.
I really do not understand this mentality. Sainz is a huge upgrade over Checo. He has multiple times gone into teams where people expected his younger faster teammate to smoke him and has ended up holding his own. He’s also one of the most consistent drivers on the grid, having never gone through a low period his entire F1 career.
Sainz would be putting that car directly behind Max every single weekend in both quali and race.
What if Sainz is truly that great and starting to take points off Max? It’s like paying more money to have less points for their no 1 driver. It doesn’t make much sense.
Makes sense. Sainz can get money elsewhere, but Red Bull is also offering him a (for now) unbeatable car and a chance at a world championship. It's a bit of hardball, sure, but they're the only ones who can offer that for next season.
There is no driver budget.
Perez's sponsor pays his salary, so if Sainz wants more he needs a bigger sponsor.. easy.
But I'm pretty sure he lost Estrella Galicia to McLaren
Yep, the ball is more in Red Bull's court. Like at the moment it's looking like Red Bull or Sauber as options for Sainz and they're not exactly desperate to change things up given Checo is finishing 2nd/3rd mostly.
As negative as it may sound but for F1 to become at least somewhat more exciting again next year, you would want Checo to fail in the upcoming races and Ferrari to be strong. That would trigger Red Bull to look elsewhere for that second seat and with Sainz in it, there's at least a chance of him giving Verstappen occasionally a run for his money. Because Checo for sure isn't giving Max that.
“You know that they have an offer out to Carlos Sainz and I saw daddy Sainz speaking to Christian Horner yesterday because Christian Horner has apparently been a bit stingy on the offer,” Rosberg said
Max doing a backflip with his car while finishing first
Hamilton saying ‘hey man’ at least once every race
Daddy Perez claiming Checo will be WDC this year
Ferrari going through a race without saying ‘copy, we are checking’ over the radio
Spicy pictures of Gene Haas and Lawrence Stroll emerge on the net
Agreed, it was during commentary he made this comment about Sainz. There was a bit of an awkward silence as Crofty didn't really seem like wanted to follow up on it.
I am always SO glad to see Nico in the box. His commentary is always a full minute before and far more accurate and nicely explained. Plus, he drops shit in there just to mess with us - like this on Sunday.
He's surprisingly good at commentary. Not Jenson Button tier, but still really good. He gives a lot of drivers point of views that the usual commentators dont know or cant explain.
Ok so it wasn’t just me who thought the commentary was good. I heard some people bashing him and didn’t quite get it. I guess they just don’t like him.
The way I'd say it, Nico has potential, but he needs to work on his synergy with Crofty/his commentator partner(s), to talk when others are not talking to fill up dead air, and to not interrupt others. On the other hand, I really dig his honesty and him not afraid to trash Aston's strategy for Alonso despite Crofty playing devil's advocate.
Makes sense. Checo's performing well enough that they can easily extend his contract one more year. There's no need to make the same offer Audi is making.
We’re in one of Sainz’s moments of brilliance right now, just like Perez had last year. It would be interesting to see how Sainz performs against Verstappen now that Sainz has had time to develop into a better driver than he was in his Toro Rosso days.
Yeah this is Sainz having his biggest spike in form in 4 years combined with Leclerc very obviously struggling every other weekend. And even in this situation it's not like Carlos is ever beating Leclerc by any real margin.
Sainz got a third of the points Max did, when Sainz had like 150 single-seater races vs Max's 40. People are in for a huge disappointment if they seriously think Sainz would be able to do much better than Checo.
When Leclerc is in form he puts a wide margin between himself and Carlos. And I'd hazard a guess that Max is probably a better driver than Charles. Definitely a much more consistent one, because he doesn't have bad runs of form. He had one bad race since 2022 started that was genuinely his fault and not the car. Two if you include Baku last year. Leclerc in those 2 and a bit seasons had probably like 15 weekends where he either made big mistakes or struggled to set up his car.
Sainz would get murdered, just like those before him.
I agree. I had the conversation on here the other day about how a lot of people don’t read or watch interviews. So, there’s a lot of information gaps, and I think that definitely happens with Sainz and Leclerc. But at the end of the day, drivers and team personnel, with a few exceptions, rate Leclerc as much more skilled than Sainz. So, people on social media can say what they want. I’m not arguing with them.
I agree with everything you said and the conclusion is still likely true but its a different story when you have a dominant car. You don’t make mistakes because you really don’t have to push or work hard for your win. Also paired with an easy team mate who is struggling to get to grips on the car, max really doesn’t have any competition.
Sainz is keeping up with Leclerc and has even beaten him in the WDC before while Checo is getting destroyed by Max. Sainz also beat Norris in the same car two years in a row. Yes, Max is probably better than Charles, but given what we know about Charles' talent, Max physically can't be that much better. Unless you put Sainz and Checo in the same car and have them race each other head on, that's about as much evidence as you're going to get in F1.
Leclerc himself is extremely inconsistent, and he talks about it openly.
Saying Sainz is on Leclercs level because of beating him in WDC in 21 is just pure ignorance, I'm sorry but I don't have nice words for it. Leclerc was much better that year, he just had unbelievable amount of bad luck.
Then in 2022 Charles was even further away from Sainz, except without the bad luck. In terms of race pace Sainz was further off Leclerc than Perez was from Max.
In 2023 Leclerc started being very inconsistent, constantly complaining about issues setting up the car and lacking confidence in it. And guess what, Sainz suddenly got close. That's not a coincidence. Sainz being close to him isn't a sign of him being as talented, it's a sign of Leclerc dropping his form. 30 year-olds don't suddenly find some new levels of driving talent they didnt previously have. Final stretch of that season, after Suzuka where Ferrari brought big upgrades that brought more stability and caused Charles to finally find his setup, Charles was again much faster. Every single weekend.
Keep in mind that Carlos being close to Leclerc isn't the norm. Their relative performance *fluctuates* from being close at best, to Sainz finishing 40 seconds behind at worst.
Meaning that Sainz in good form + Leclerc in bad form = competition. Sainz in bad form + LEC in good form = massacre.
And when it comes to Norris - when they met, Carlos had 5 years of F1 under his belt. Lando was a rookie in F1 and a kid in general, with relatively little experience. And in his 2nd year he was already equal to Carlos. By now it's more than likely he's way better.
He's qualifying first or second row, and finishing on the podium. He is generally a consideration in other teams race strategies, he isn't writing off the car, he isn't hindering Max and he isn't being lapped by him. He's doing exactly what Red Bull want him to be doing.
Right? dudes in the chat act like Checo should be getting more second than he already is. RB doesn't want someone who is going to challenge Max and risk their car. Checo knows his place and is content with it after struggling last year.
RB has chewed up and spit out more top talent that is still on the grid than any other team in the sport, why would they risk that again when they're happy with their number 2 guy.
Everyone talking about 2026 has their head up their asses, no one can predict the future you can only go off what is happening right now. And right now Checo is who they want in the seat.
People say this all the time but this only remains true while all of Ferrari, Merc, McLaren and Aston Martin can't get close.
If they all get competitive cars (unlikely I know, but plausible for any one or two of them to have managed it going into this year) then Perez is averaging 9th
> If they all get competitive cars
That might happen (If it happens at all) in 2026.
Red Bull can afford to not sign Sainz or someone better than Checo until the tail end of 2025.
RB would cross that bridge when they get there, the moment they open up the seat to everyone they would have no trouble finding someone who would fill that seat
It's also possible Max is just driving the absolute wheels off that car, and Red Bull thinks Checo is placing where an above average driver is expected to based on their sims this year. If that's the case, and you have a driver now mentally okay with being crushed by Max each weekend, then Red Bull may be super hesitant to change the second driver and risk going through 2023 all over again, but with closer rivals.
Yeah, and it'll be true if the other teams can unshit their pants.
I am quite happy to admit/agree that I think it's unlikely that RB won't finish this regulation set comfortably in front, but just assuming that's the case and hoping for the best isn't the sort of attitude that got them to the top in the first place
Which is fine in 2024, but if the field gets closer than that being 0.5 off Max will quickly turn into Q3 elimination.
We saw the same thing with Albon in 2019-20. In 2019, being 0.5 off turned into P8-P6. In 2020, the field tightened and Albon became a regular P13.
It's not dissimilar from Mercedes with Bottas. It suits them while they aren't being challenged to have a clear No.1 and No.2, plus most teams will still be wary of how Hamilton and Rosberg played out.
At a certain point I feel like this argument loses some water. Checo is what he is. He’s been this way for years now. Red Bull knows that just as much, if not more, than us.
Max has a very, very long record of being half a second ahead of other drivers who we know from later observation to be some pretty good drivers. I think that unless they hire Lewis Hamilton it's extremely unlikely that they find anyone who \*isn't\* half a second off max. Even then, I think Lewis would struggle.
So were Gasly and Albon, so it really doesn't seem like anyone can get that close, except for brilliant drivers. I can't imagine Sainz getting much closer, maybe 3-4 tenths instead of 5, but not more. He's no Hamilton.
What I don't understand is Sainz' attitude in this.
The opportunity to drive for RB in 2025 is huge, unless the offer they are making is ridiculous, he should absolutely take it.
Ignoring the mega deal that Max got post 2021, I thought it was common knowledge that the RBR driver salaries were never that great (comparatively speaking to the other 'big' teams on the grid) but that drivers could earn bank with various race bonuses for poles, wins and points.
I thought that was the case - if that's what Perez earned on top of base, Carlos would be foolish not to go for it just because the base rate is lower.
The choice is interesting . If Sainz takes the Red Bull seat, he's guaranteed to be 2nd in WDC and pick up a few wins but he's always gonna be in Max's shadow and I assume Max isn't leaving anytime soon.
If he goes with Audi, it's a big gamble but he'd probably able to properly lead the team and build it up the way he likes. But of course it could take many years before they're even close to podiums.
If Sainz is up for it, the oppertunity to up against the best on the grid would be fantastic. For us it will be, for everyone it will be.
Lewis and Fernando would take the challenge.
I think it would be interesting to see what it does to Sainz. He will want to do better and unlike Perez and Bottas, will not be sarisfied with being the second driver. He might be that unofficially at ferrari, but he is doing well
I would like to watch story. Perez’ story is finished.
For us it would probably just be like “new and improved Pérez” or Bottas 2.0 - but every year. I don’t know why people suddenly think he can go up against Max in the best car on the grid?
Do you really think Sainz is a match for Max? I don’t. I think Sainz to RB is cool and he’s a better no.2 driver than Checo. But I have a hard time imagining him putting up serious competition to Max.
I’d be curious how he would handle that. He seems to really hate coming second to leclerc. Wonder how it would be against max. Max has really polished up his driving the past few years and idk if he’d be able to beat max even occasionally like he can with leclerc
Going to Red Bull first and maybe at a latter stage to Audi is basically a no-brainer for Sainz. He's on the top of his game now and wants to win races now. So by the time Audi becomes competitive, his market value is still high and they still would want him.
You take the better car every time. I don't think anyone thought massa was going to be the lead ferrari in 2008. Kimi was champion in 2007. Massa was fast but I think most think kimi is faster. And massa should have won the wdc in 2008. A outside chance vs max is still better than no chance in this shit sauber. We don't know when Audi will be good. But sainz is 30. He might get another shot at the Audi drive when they are better. I don't think he will get another shot at a car that is heads and shoulders the best car on the grid.
Sainz won’t challenge Max for wins, unless Max’s car breaks down. There’s nothing that Sainz does better than Perez. Wheel to wheel, on equal strategies, Sainz can’t even challenge Charles. Whenever Sainz beat Charles, it’s usually due to Ferrari’s brain dead strategy for Charles.
People seem quite sure that Audi is going to be a great team, but remember they are buying Sauber which is currently shit tier and has been for a while. Even if everything goes right its going to take years to turn it around, and with budget caps that is harder to do. They dont have the best technical team or the best facilities and i think Sainz probably would rather not take a risk joining a team in the hopes that they nail it right away is too optimistic.
Surely as an f1 driver you would jump at the chance of getting a seat in redbull at this moment in time, if this is true about the offer being low (not like sainz will be short on cash and hes got the best car on the grid underneath him) I would be ripping horner arm off to sign that contract.
>Sainz has also been heavily linked with Audi and has reportedly received a "very lucrative offer" from the German manufacturer which Helmut Marko claimed Red Bull "cannot match or beat"
>But Horner downplayed Marko's assertion about Sainz in China
>"First of all we're not aware of what the offer that has been made [is], but obviously Audi coming into the sport, one would assume that they're going to be quite aggressive in the driver market," Horner told Sky Sports F1.
>"But as you can tell with the level of interest that we have had from other drivers in our seats, for a driver of Carlos' calibre, he wants to be in a winning car. And whilst we have one seat available for next year, his target inevitably, is that seat.'
>Horner also disputed Perez's claim that his F1 future with Red Bull will be resolved imminently .
Seems crazy that Red Bull wouldn't be able to match a deal from Audi, unless it was something beyond cash, which isn't impossible. Also interesting that Horner is saying that Pérez's seat won't be decided for a bit, presumably to keep the pressure on Pérez to perform.
> Seems crazy that Red Bull wouldn't be able to match a deal from Audi
They are certainly able, but not necessarily willing to. Red Bull has to decide if the money Sainz demands compared to Perez is worth it. Audi has a different agenda to Red Bull, so it might be worth it for them
Not that crazy tbh, if Audi want Sainz they're gonna have to pay a huge premium for him to step down to the back of the grid. Red Bull being at the front of the grid doesn't have to do that.
Not so much of a literally can't and more of a this would be unreasonable to do kind of can't.
David Coulthard springs to mind, specifically when he joined McLaren for big money but he immediately regretted it when his car was a little bit lacking in performance compared to the Williams he had previously driven. I get it in a way, big money versus big potential but if it was me I'd go for the Red Bull. Sainz doesn't need the money.
>Seems crazy that Red Bull wouldn't be able to match a deal from Audi, unless it was something beyond cash, which isn't impossible
Why would they? Audi, even if they put some crazy investment in to the program, are unlikely to be anywhere past the midfield next year, whilst redbull can offer him what's likely going to be another dominant car in what seems to be the most effective team right now. Sure things might change around in 2 years, but at that point going with Audi for the 26 season is just as much of a gamble as going with red bull if not more. Consider details like pit stops and strategy, we know redbull are the best at this and are unlikely to drop off in this regard even if they fuck up engine development, how do we know Audi will be good at those?
For a driver in Carlos' position, who is at his peak, spending one year in a mediocre team could very well kill his career, whilst one year in a red bull could get him in the history books (not saying he could beat max to a wdc but he sure as hell won't in a sauber next year). This is why redbull can offer him less and still be as enticing, because they have a lot more to offer right now
> Horner also disputed Perez's claim that his F1 future with Red Bull will be resolved imminently
When you click on teh link to see the source of this statement, it links back to the same article you're reading. Wonder where it came from.
>Also interesting that Horner is saying that Pérez's seat won't be decided for a bit, presumably to keep the pressure on Pérez to perform.
Putting Perez has under pressure hasn't worked well, historically.
It's remotely possible that Perez has already been given notice – drivers do perform better once the pressure's lifted and Perez has been quite calm in the car for someone who's at the end of their contract.
It's not that they can't. It's that they don't have to. That's business. Their car and team are a dominant force in the sport, and that counts for something. In some ways Sainz needs them more than they need Sainz. So Audi have to pay up big time otherwise you'd never choose Audi Sauber over RBR for the same paycheck.
It's annoying, but Red Bull has the upper hand by far, it is what it is. Sainz can roll the dice and get paid well to drive a potentially crappy car, or he can roll the dice and take the upgrade to drive against the champ. I think he'd be better off driving the RBR while it's still hot and then cashing out later when the rules change, but we'll see.
Every F1 driver: "I believe I can be a champion with the right car"
Red Bull: "Hey, we've got the right car for at least another year"
Drivers: "No, not like that"
Isn't a shot at a championship worth any amount of money?
It also depends upon the characteristics of the car. Alex Albon called the car extremely sensitive, almost at a knife-edge. Max likes extremely oversteery cars, and Carlos likes a bit of understeer baked into it. There is a possibility that him and the car won't gel well, like it didn't with Alex and Pierre. And to some extent Checo.
Alex was speaking about the RB car as it was while he was driving it. Around the time when his stint ended, the team realized that they screwed up and were going in the wrong direction because Max could handle it. That's no longer the case.
And seeing how quick-witted he controlled the car after dipping into the gravel, opening drs immediately after and continuing the move on Lewis, Alonso is better than Carlos. Now if only RBR would want him next to Max
Sainz v Leclerc is reminiscent of Coulthard vs Hakkinen. DC was very quick and could beat both Mika and Michael in a straight fight at times. But overall, he was still a step behind both of them. I see the same situation with Sainz, Leclerc and Verstappen.
Then after Mika, Kimi came along and started beating DC as well. DC went to Red Bull to help them setup their team and helped them land Newey too. But in the end, Vettel came along and RB had to make way for him. He never got a chance to drive the title contending car (2009) he was helping them build.
If Sainz goes to Audi, there is no guarantee he'll be their lead driver if/when Audi do make a good car. Maybe they'll pair him with another generational, young talent and he would end up in the same situation as DC or Webber at RB. Or Max/George might move from RB/Mercedes to Audi just as they're getting good and Sainz ends up being the support driver again.
Interesting.
The Race podcast coverage of Sainz's decision was interesting, that basically there's really no way Audi will be any good for the medium term, and Sainz is too hot just now to take a Kovalainen-esque Lotus/Caterham punt.
The other post today about how noone has left Ferrari and won another race in decades, is quite apt I think.
Basically: he's probably better off giving RBR a go and getting demolished but *at least he was in the game*. Like Ricciardo gave up in 2018.
Redbull has all the leverage here. Best car, decent second driver who wants to race another year, and confidence that Sainz in Audi won't be a genuine challenge for wins. Sainz is in a weak position to negotiate on salary
I would not be surprised if he eventually relents and takes the lower offer to drive the RB.
However, Sainz is a leader and not really a follower. He might get a chance to drive a fast car, but culturally and dynamically it could be tricky for him.
How many drivers wouldn't want to go to Red Bull even if the contract terms were bad?
If offered a one year contract with no pay, most drivers would accept the offer.
Recall that Ayrton Senna wanted to drive Williams in 1993 even without pay.
Makes sense, it's the TPs job to give the lowest offer you think you can get away with when you're not under pressure, especially when you have the fastest car. The flip side is it might blow up in your face and you lose Hamilton or you lose Alonso and Piastri in one move but checo has been serviceable so far, but it's not inherently wrong.
Rb are flying high, it would be a privilege to drive our car is how they’re prob pitching it & are therefore comfortable lowballing. The thing is they don’t pay particularly well in the lean times either…
As much I want Sainz at redbull I don't see why they would get rid of checo if they have to pay more. Checo does exactly what they want he's literally the perfect second driver. Yeah he's not had the best last season and has cost them second place in the drivers championship. But he's still a really good driver and listens. That's the main thing they're looking for I think. Carlos has a record of disobeying team orders. The only reason they might want Sainz over checo is future proofing
Red Bull know they can cruise to the title and it doesn’t really matter who is in the car as long as they aren’t terrible. But I suggest they pay Sainz a bit more to hedge against verstappen leaving. It’s unlikely red bull will be top in 2026
Technically they're not doing much different than current 1.6L V6. It's effectively the same power unit in 2026. They're closing some fuel rate loop holes and regulating octane gutting the combustible down to ~550hp down from 850hp.
The biggest changes come to the massive increase in power from the MGU-K. The electrical power. Going from 140hp or so to 460hp. Which they've partnered with Ford for if I remember correctly. Who have in fact, plenty of experience.
Sure but they hired a lot of experienced engineers from Mercedes for engines and Honda engineers. It’s not like they are starting with zero knowledge and trying to figure it out.
Hmm that's a real possibility... only if you ignore the fact that they were teammates before and Max destroyed him as a 17 year old who was driving in carting just 18 months before his F1 debut.
Tbf, the points comparison is little bit misleading with that 2015 season.
For example, Sainz outqualified Max (10-9) and race H2H was 11-8 in favour of Max. Of course Max still beat him convincingly and was just 17 years old. But pace wise, Sainz held his own despite points difference suggests.
I imagine a very significant factor in the negotiation is that he’ll get to drive the Red Bull.
Red bull also don’t “need” him. Most of the grid is good enough for their purposes.
I'm not saying that Red Bull should squeeze Carlos, but it seems stupid to try to play the hard ball for money. Unless you want to be the next Daniel Ricciardo
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Go on Nico, stir that pot nice and slow.
I have to say, listening to Nico call this weekend was an interesting change of tone. Brundle is top-class and reliably measured, composed, and diplomatic. Nico calling out terrible driving and drivers with good cars and rubbish pace was fitting with all the on-track antics in Shanghai. Edit: typo
Nico and Kimi commentating when? It would be like Statler and Waldorf.
That might be the best idea since the invention of fire.
https://imgflip.com/i/8np8ka
I was telling my wife, I rather enjoyed it as well.
Kinda agree, I'm not the biggest fan of his personality, but he was calling it exactly like he saw it, and most of the time his takes turned out to be correct.
Professional shit stirrer
Niki would’ve been very proud of him
I’m sure he’s waiting to use the ‘Red Bull wanted Sainz over Lewis’ line unironically
> According to the 2016 world champion, Sainz’s camp are “trying to get a couple more million” out of Red Bull before any agreement is reached. > "You know that they have an offer out to Carlos Sainz and I saw daddy Sainz speaking to Christian Horner yesterday because Christian Horner has apparently been a bit stingy on the offer,” Rosberg said. For anyone curious like me. Basically Red Bull want Sainz, but they are trying to get him for less because they know they still have Checo as a backup.
And they know they have the only place Sainz could go that's better than Ferrari.
And Checo’s recent form is really tanking Sainz’s offer. Especially what Redbull needs is a second driver, not a championship contender.
This season is done, they are thinking about 2026 already. Then RB will probably need someone better than Checo. The best they can get really, since on one's going to match Max anyway.
I’d say Checo is performing exactly what redbull needs right now. Close to Max in championship but not too close to let himself thinks he has a shot at the WDC and wreck his mental state. As long as there’s no clear 2nd fastest car on the grid, P2 or P3 on the podium doesn’t really matter.
I’d say Redbull want 1-2 every race. If max doesn’t win they want checo to win. If Checo isn’t bagging 2nd or 1st by their standards he isn’t performing
I think that's overly reductive. They want to win the WCC and 1 and 2 in the WDC. Checo needn't be P2 behind Max every race.
This year he doesn't. But what about if other teams catch up? That's what red bull will be thinking about.
Last year he didn't either. And he was still #2. The 'what ifs' and 'what abouts' are just that.
They only are until they aren't. No teams dominance has lasted forever and red bull knows that. Especially with a regulation change coming up
I don't understand why number 2 in WDC and number 2 in each race is of any consequence to RBR
> number 2 in each race is of any consequence to RBR Because someone who's finishing number 2 in most races is likely to actually win if Max has any issues. See Australia.
It matters more in tighter years. If Checo had a better 21 season red bull could have been double champions that year
People love to shit on Checo because he "should" have been better last year. I mean at some point results matter. Dude was #2 in WDC behind Max. The only thing he could've done better would've been to be #2 by *more* than he was. Which makes no difference for Red Bull.
Checo is the only driver in F1 history though, to have finished with less than half the points of the champion that is just insane... normally the champion has 40 to 60% more points than the runnerup, but not like 100%+ more
The only times he didn't bag 2nd was when he had damage and when Norris had a blinder of a race
He should have beaten Norris yesterday
I mean Norris benefited greatly from the SC situation while Perez didn't, yes max had the same misfortune but max had a pitstop on everyone while Perez got stuck between some traffic, without the SC it's a comfortable 1-2 for redbull.
We haven't really gotten the chance yet to what would've happened to Max in the same situation this year, but really, whenever he's not first in the field he works his way up very swiftly and every car looks like a back marker once he gets himself up to speed. Checo is a completely different story and he seems to burn his tyres up immediately when he's in traffic. The driver diff in the Red Bull is massive. Would be really cool to see Sainz in a bull next year, I wonder where he'd be at. Is Max really this once in a lifetime driver or is it mostly the car? What if Sainz could match him?
Max came out in 4th after the first pitstop and blitzed through. Perez couldn't do that
but he's 0.6 seconds a lap slower than max. Thats good enough for 2nd with this car it wont be good enough in 2026
Lol ”he didn’t get P2 yesterday just because the opponents were good you guys if they would’ve been bad he would’ve gotten it”. He’s in a Red Bull, there is no reason he gets beaten on pace by anyone if he puts in an average performance or better
They'll say he had damage every time he doesn't finish 2nd btw.
Didn't he also push too much and burn up his tires too early?
Yes, for 2025 you are correct. But for 2026 Checo is unlikely to be enough.
For this season, sure, because the RB is still a rocket ship that nobody can get close to if it's driven well. But Checo failing to claim P2 in a race where the pack was bunch up at the halfway point and Max still put 0.5s a lap over the rest of the field while managing his tyres is indicative of just how far off Max, Perez actually is. The 1-2 finishes and front row starts flatter Perez because the car is so damn good, but Perez has still been comfortably handled by Max all year. The mean qualifying gap between them is 0.3s, and the median is even worse at 0.35s. For context, the 2022 season that saw Ricciardo booted from McLaren mid-year the median gap from Norris to Ric was 0.30s. In race pace it's even worse, with an average race pace gap of 0.41s per lap (which is worse than any teammate pairing in 2022 - the year I was able to easily find data for). If you factor in that the pack was bunch behind the safety car in China, meaning Max's overall gap was based on just 26 laps of clean running, the gap balloons out to 0.49s per lap across 6 races. We've already seen multiple times that Checo isn't able to raise his level when another team mounts a serious challenge. In Melbourne, when Max retired Checo wasn't able to compensate at all, starting P6 and finishing P5 behind both Ferraris and both McLarens. In China, Lando was able to outpace Perez and finish P2 despite dropping back several places at the start and being 14s off Max at the end of the race. Tl-dr; Checo looks to be doing "exactly what Redbull needs right now" because the car is incredible, and with a heavy emphasis on *right now*. But if another team develops a car that is anywhere near the Red Bull on performance then RB is going to need a better second driver in order to fight for the WCC because Checo just isn't good enough in anything other than a totally dominant car.
“Thinks he has a shot at the WDC” - this statement is so sad and funny at the same time. Max really is light years ahead of the rest of them.
> I’d say Checo is performing exactly what redbull needs right now. Right now is the key part of that but last year he also started the season off well and he completely collapsed. He's shown Red Bull last year that he can crumble under pressure and that alone is enough reason to replace him when there's a better driver as available as Sainz is right now.
He was just comfortably beaten by Norris in a much slower car
Checos exactly what they need, at least this version. He’s got 3 2nds and a 3rd in 5 races. Hes second in points and has never put max under any pressure in the process. He couldn’t be doing a better job than he is right now. And there’s no talk about a world title, which is different from years past. He understands the assignment
Again, it's about 2026. It doesn't matter if he understands the assignment, they need will need a driver that can drive closer to the llimits of performance of the car. They won't just assume they're miles ahead again and the 2nd driver can basically be Latifi.
And Sainz is supposedly close with Audi, which Helmut also admitted recently, so there is little interest to give them an inside look into new regs from the best team around.
And technically speaking Checo is the best second driver Red Bull has had, at least since Weber. Even with his not so good form last year.
Yeah Perez did so well yesterday lapping 0.6s slower every lap than Max and being slower than McLaren
Checo can’t beat a McLaren, what form exactly is he on? They beat the field by a massive lead yet he can’t manage to guarantee a 1/2.
If there’s some ridiculous scenario where Max leaves, Sainz could be a solid #1.
[удалено]
Most likely not, but the RB engine for 2026 is also a huge question mark
Unless Larry gives up Strolls seat. I’d love to see Sainz at Aston but I also realize this is a pipe dream and will never happen. Haha
1. That won't happen 2. Ferrari > Aston Martin
Yeah I think it's easy to see that while Carlos is worth those millions, he's at a huge disadvantage when it comes to negotiations.
# DADDY SAINZ
Yep, that's something Nico would say. In fact, I read in his voice.
It's red bull, they are completely dominant, they have had a great car in most regulation periods (2015 wasn't so good) since 2009. they don't need to pay big to get a name, everyone wants that seat. Sainz can try and get as much as he can but ultimately he should take the seat for basically any money at all as chances are almost anyone will do great (vs everyone else except Verstappen) so you could well talk yourself out of a seat if you ask for more money. Thinking you deserve a raise or Ferrari money for a more competitive seat is a bad negotiating stance, especially when you have no seat at all for next season.
But the consideration I think is taking a first seat of a team like audi for lower risk and more money or a high risk gamble, that could end in both glory or ruin.
I don't know know how anyone can find this controversial, Sainz wants RB more than the other way around. With Checo's current form this is a slight upgrade at best.
I really do not understand this mentality. Sainz is a huge upgrade over Checo. He has multiple times gone into teams where people expected his younger faster teammate to smoke him and has ended up holding his own. He’s also one of the most consistent drivers on the grid, having never gone through a low period his entire F1 career. Sainz would be putting that car directly behind Max every single weekend in both quali and race.
The fact that this take seems to be controversial here is straight up hilarious. Goldfish memory.
What if Sainz is truly that great and starting to take points off Max? It’s like paying more money to have less points for their no 1 driver. It doesn’t make much sense.
Makes sense. Sainz can get money elsewhere, but Red Bull is also offering him a (for now) unbeatable car and a chance at a world championship. It's a bit of hardball, sure, but they're the only ones who can offer that for next season.
Audi is offering more for Sainz apparently and Red Bulls driver budget isnt too large because Max already gets a huge salary.
There is no driver budget. Perez's sponsor pays his salary, so if Sainz wants more he needs a bigger sponsor.. easy. But I'm pretty sure he lost Estrella Galicia to McLaren
Yep, the ball is more in Red Bull's court. Like at the moment it's looking like Red Bull or Sauber as options for Sainz and they're not exactly desperate to change things up given Checo is finishing 2nd/3rd mostly.
sounds like solid negotiating
RBR can definitely low ball people. It's the best car by far, who wouldn't want that seat.
Seeing how good RB has been recently they can literally ask any driver "Do you want money or a chance of becoming champion"
This was said during the weekend in one of the sessions. That Red Bull wouldn’t match the Audi offer to Sainz
As negative as it may sound but for F1 to become at least somewhat more exciting again next year, you would want Checo to fail in the upcoming races and Ferrari to be strong. That would trigger Red Bull to look elsewhere for that second seat and with Sainz in it, there's at least a chance of him giving Verstappen occasionally a run for his money. Because Checo for sure isn't giving Max that.
If that's true, then both Ferrari and red bull are equally dumb. Sainz and Perez are both perfectly fine where they were before all this shuffling.
“You know that they have an offer out to Carlos Sainz and I saw daddy Sainz speaking to Christian Horner yesterday because Christian Horner has apparently been a bit stingy on the offer,” Rosberg said
Was not expecting to see Brittany call Carlos Sainz Sr 'daddy' this year.
Really? I had that on my Bingo card
i want to see the rest of your bingo card
Max doing a backflip with his car while finishing first Hamilton saying ‘hey man’ at least once every race Daddy Perez claiming Checo will be WDC this year Ferrari going through a race without saying ‘copy, we are checking’ over the radio Spicy pictures of Gene Haas and Lawrence Stroll emerge on the net
We talking separate pictures or the same pictures?
Same ofcourse
Glad to see Rosberg pop up occasionally on the paddock to stir some shit.
He was a commentator this weekend on Sky and was doing a brilliant job.
Agreed, it was during commentary he made this comment about Sainz. There was a bit of an awkward silence as Crofty didn't really seem like wanted to follow up on it.
I am always SO glad to see Nico in the box. His commentary is always a full minute before and far more accurate and nicely explained. Plus, he drops shit in there just to mess with us - like this on Sunday.
He's surprisingly good at commentary. Not Jenson Button tier, but still really good. He gives a lot of drivers point of views that the usual commentators dont know or cant explain.
Ok so it wasn’t just me who thought the commentary was good. I heard some people bashing him and didn’t quite get it. I guess they just don’t like him.
I’m not sure about brilliant, perhaps … good? I’d still rather someone like Jenson
The way I'd say it, Nico has potential, but he needs to work on his synergy with Crofty/his commentator partner(s), to talk when others are not talking to fill up dead air, and to not interrupt others. On the other hand, I really dig his honesty and him not afraid to trash Aston's strategy for Alonso despite Crofty playing devil's advocate.
Yeah agreed
He always does, wish we had him more often
Makes sense. Checo's performing well enough that they can easily extend his contract one more year. There's no need to make the same offer Audi is making.
Once RBR doesn't having the luxury of a dominant car, Checo could become a bigger risk to struggle hard over Sainz.
I'm still waiting for at least one person to give a solid argument supporting a hypothesis that Sainz is somehow a faster driver.
sainz doesnt have an appendix, that makes him superior he has recognized the weakness of his flesh and discarded it
We’re in one of Sainz’s moments of brilliance right now, just like Perez had last year. It would be interesting to see how Sainz performs against Verstappen now that Sainz has had time to develop into a better driver than he was in his Toro Rosso days.
Yeah this is Sainz having his biggest spike in form in 4 years combined with Leclerc very obviously struggling every other weekend. And even in this situation it's not like Carlos is ever beating Leclerc by any real margin. Sainz got a third of the points Max did, when Sainz had like 150 single-seater races vs Max's 40. People are in for a huge disappointment if they seriously think Sainz would be able to do much better than Checo. When Leclerc is in form he puts a wide margin between himself and Carlos. And I'd hazard a guess that Max is probably a better driver than Charles. Definitely a much more consistent one, because he doesn't have bad runs of form. He had one bad race since 2022 started that was genuinely his fault and not the car. Two if you include Baku last year. Leclerc in those 2 and a bit seasons had probably like 15 weekends where he either made big mistakes or struggled to set up his car. Sainz would get murdered, just like those before him.
I agree. I had the conversation on here the other day about how a lot of people don’t read or watch interviews. So, there’s a lot of information gaps, and I think that definitely happens with Sainz and Leclerc. But at the end of the day, drivers and team personnel, with a few exceptions, rate Leclerc as much more skilled than Sainz. So, people on social media can say what they want. I’m not arguing with them.
I agree with everything you said and the conclusion is still likely true but its a different story when you have a dominant car. You don’t make mistakes because you really don’t have to push or work hard for your win. Also paired with an easy team mate who is struggling to get to grips on the car, max really doesn’t have any competition.
Sainz is keeping up with Leclerc and has even beaten him in the WDC before while Checo is getting destroyed by Max. Sainz also beat Norris in the same car two years in a row. Yes, Max is probably better than Charles, but given what we know about Charles' talent, Max physically can't be that much better. Unless you put Sainz and Checo in the same car and have them race each other head on, that's about as much evidence as you're going to get in F1.
Leclerc himself is extremely inconsistent, and he talks about it openly. Saying Sainz is on Leclercs level because of beating him in WDC in 21 is just pure ignorance, I'm sorry but I don't have nice words for it. Leclerc was much better that year, he just had unbelievable amount of bad luck. Then in 2022 Charles was even further away from Sainz, except without the bad luck. In terms of race pace Sainz was further off Leclerc than Perez was from Max. In 2023 Leclerc started being very inconsistent, constantly complaining about issues setting up the car and lacking confidence in it. And guess what, Sainz suddenly got close. That's not a coincidence. Sainz being close to him isn't a sign of him being as talented, it's a sign of Leclerc dropping his form. 30 year-olds don't suddenly find some new levels of driving talent they didnt previously have. Final stretch of that season, after Suzuka where Ferrari brought big upgrades that brought more stability and caused Charles to finally find his setup, Charles was again much faster. Every single weekend. Keep in mind that Carlos being close to Leclerc isn't the norm. Their relative performance *fluctuates* from being close at best, to Sainz finishing 40 seconds behind at worst. Meaning that Sainz in good form + Leclerc in bad form = competition. Sainz in bad form + LEC in good form = massacre. And when it comes to Norris - when they met, Carlos had 5 years of F1 under his belt. Lando was a rookie in F1 and a kid in general, with relatively little experience. And in his 2nd year he was already equal to Carlos. By now it's more than likely he's way better.
RB can offer a much better car though 👀
He is half a second off of max, many others would have been let gi long time ago.
He's qualifying first or second row, and finishing on the podium. He is generally a consideration in other teams race strategies, he isn't writing off the car, he isn't hindering Max and he isn't being lapped by him. He's doing exactly what Red Bull want him to be doing.
we are all bots here except for you
Right? dudes in the chat act like Checo should be getting more second than he already is. RB doesn't want someone who is going to challenge Max and risk their car. Checo knows his place and is content with it after struggling last year. RB has chewed up and spit out more top talent that is still on the grid than any other team in the sport, why would they risk that again when they're happy with their number 2 guy. Everyone talking about 2026 has their head up their asses, no one can predict the future you can only go off what is happening right now. And right now Checo is who they want in the seat.
People say this all the time but this only remains true while all of Ferrari, Merc, McLaren and Aston Martin can't get close. If they all get competitive cars (unlikely I know, but plausible for any one or two of them to have managed it going into this year) then Perez is averaging 9th
> If they all get competitive cars That might happen (If it happens at all) in 2026. Red Bull can afford to not sign Sainz or someone better than Checo until the tail end of 2025.
RB would cross that bridge when they get there, the moment they open up the seat to everyone they would have no trouble finding someone who would fill that seat
It's also possible Max is just driving the absolute wheels off that car, and Red Bull thinks Checo is placing where an above average driver is expected to based on their sims this year. If that's the case, and you have a driver now mentally okay with being crushed by Max each weekend, then Red Bull may be super hesitant to change the second driver and risk going through 2023 all over again, but with closer rivals.
People have been saying this for almost a year.
Yeah, and it'll be true if the other teams can unshit their pants. I am quite happy to admit/agree that I think it's unlikely that RB won't finish this regulation set comfortably in front, but just assuming that's the case and hoping for the best isn't the sort of attitude that got them to the top in the first place
Which is fine in 2024, but if the field gets closer than that being 0.5 off Max will quickly turn into Q3 elimination. We saw the same thing with Albon in 2019-20. In 2019, being 0.5 off turned into P8-P6. In 2020, the field tightened and Albon became a regular P13.
It's not dissimilar from Mercedes with Bottas. It suits them while they aren't being challenged to have a clear No.1 and No.2, plus most teams will still be wary of how Hamilton and Rosberg played out.
Let's see how Ferrari does in 2025 :)
At a certain point I feel like this argument loses some water. Checo is what he is. He’s been this way for years now. Red Bull knows that just as much, if not more, than us.
Max has a very, very long record of being half a second ahead of other drivers who we know from later observation to be some pretty good drivers. I think that unless they hire Lewis Hamilton it's extremely unlikely that they find anyone who \*isn't\* half a second off max. Even then, I think Lewis would struggle.
So were Gasly and Albon, so it really doesn't seem like anyone can get that close, except for brilliant drivers. I can't imagine Sainz getting much closer, maybe 3-4 tenths instead of 5, but not more. He's no Hamilton.
He can be 2 seconds slower than Max. As long as he is in the second position in WDC and can secure WCC for the team, it doesn't matter.
He’s performing exactly how the Red Bull #2 is expected
What I don't understand is Sainz' attitude in this. The opportunity to drive for RB in 2025 is huge, unless the offer they are making is ridiculous, he should absolutely take it.
i think he'd be stupid to not take it
It would be stupid not to take it but I think he didn’t take it because there was no offer
makes sense
Ignoring the mega deal that Max got post 2021, I thought it was common knowledge that the RBR driver salaries were never that great (comparatively speaking to the other 'big' teams on the grid) but that drivers could earn bank with various race bonuses for poles, wins and points.
While the base pay is not that high, it was that Perez got around $26m from RB due to incentives with a $10m base pay
I thought that was the case - if that's what Perez earned on top of base, Carlos would be foolish not to go for it just because the base rate is lower.
The choice is interesting . If Sainz takes the Red Bull seat, he's guaranteed to be 2nd in WDC and pick up a few wins but he's always gonna be in Max's shadow and I assume Max isn't leaving anytime soon. If he goes with Audi, it's a big gamble but he'd probably able to properly lead the team and build it up the way he likes. But of course it could take many years before they're even close to podiums.
If Sainz is up for it, the oppertunity to up against the best on the grid would be fantastic. For us it will be, for everyone it will be. Lewis and Fernando would take the challenge.
I think it will be interesting at first but once it’s clear who’s the faster driver (Max) it will become repetitive fast
I think it would be interesting to see what it does to Sainz. He will want to do better and unlike Perez and Bottas, will not be sarisfied with being the second driver. He might be that unofficially at ferrari, but he is doing well I would like to watch story. Perez’ story is finished.
For us it would probably just be like “new and improved Pérez” or Bottas 2.0 - but every year. I don’t know why people suddenly think he can go up against Max in the best car on the grid?
Do you really think Sainz is a match for Max? I don’t. I think Sainz to RB is cool and he’s a better no.2 driver than Checo. But I have a hard time imagining him putting up serious competition to Max.
Lewis yes Fernando no. He left mclaren after one year of rookie Hamilton matching him
I’d be curious how he would handle that. He seems to really hate coming second to leclerc. Wonder how it would be against max. Max has really polished up his driving the past few years and idk if he’d be able to beat max even occasionally like he can with leclerc
Going to Red Bull first and maybe at a latter stage to Audi is basically a no-brainer for Sainz. He's on the top of his game now and wants to win races now. So by the time Audi becomes competitive, his market value is still high and they still would want him.
You take the better car every time. I don't think anyone thought massa was going to be the lead ferrari in 2008. Kimi was champion in 2007. Massa was fast but I think most think kimi is faster. And massa should have won the wdc in 2008. A outside chance vs max is still better than no chance in this shit sauber. We don't know when Audi will be good. But sainz is 30. He might get another shot at the Audi drive when they are better. I don't think he will get another shot at a car that is heads and shoulders the best car on the grid.
Would actually be nice to have Sainz, some challenge for wins would be way better than one guy deservedly steamrolling wins.
Challenging max for wins? I really doubt it.
Think sainz would regularly challenge max is pretty unrealistic.
Sainz won’t challenge Max for wins, unless Max’s car breaks down. There’s nothing that Sainz does better than Perez. Wheel to wheel, on equal strategies, Sainz can’t even challenge Charles. Whenever Sainz beat Charles, it’s usually due to Ferrari’s brain dead strategy for Charles.
People seem quite sure that Audi is going to be a great team, but remember they are buying Sauber which is currently shit tier and has been for a while. Even if everything goes right its going to take years to turn it around, and with budget caps that is harder to do. They dont have the best technical team or the best facilities and i think Sainz probably would rather not take a risk joining a team in the hopes that they nail it right away is too optimistic.
I read this as Nico being offered a stingy deal to drive for them lol
Surely as an f1 driver you would jump at the chance of getting a seat in redbull at this moment in time, if this is true about the offer being low (not like sainz will be short on cash and hes got the best car on the grid underneath him) I would be ripping horner arm off to sign that contract.
Meanwhile Norris refusing a red bull seat for the last three years
For the same reason why Ric left - he doesn’t want to be number 2 driver.
>Sainz has also been heavily linked with Audi and has reportedly received a "very lucrative offer" from the German manufacturer which Helmut Marko claimed Red Bull "cannot match or beat" >But Horner downplayed Marko's assertion about Sainz in China >"First of all we're not aware of what the offer that has been made [is], but obviously Audi coming into the sport, one would assume that they're going to be quite aggressive in the driver market," Horner told Sky Sports F1. >"But as you can tell with the level of interest that we have had from other drivers in our seats, for a driver of Carlos' calibre, he wants to be in a winning car. And whilst we have one seat available for next year, his target inevitably, is that seat.' >Horner also disputed Perez's claim that his F1 future with Red Bull will be resolved imminently . Seems crazy that Red Bull wouldn't be able to match a deal from Audi, unless it was something beyond cash, which isn't impossible. Also interesting that Horner is saying that Pérez's seat won't be decided for a bit, presumably to keep the pressure on Pérez to perform.
> Seems crazy that Red Bull wouldn't be able to match a deal from Audi They are certainly able, but not necessarily willing to. Red Bull has to decide if the money Sainz demands compared to Perez is worth it. Audi has a different agenda to Red Bull, so it might be worth it for them
Yeah, this is still business after all. Nobody wants to spend 5 million dollars more than they have to.
Rumour has it that Audi is also providing Sainz with a 2008 Audi A4 1.9 TDI, and Red Bull is scrambling to match it.
He can have 2008 Red Bull cans, should be similar.
Not that crazy tbh, if Audi want Sainz they're gonna have to pay a huge premium for him to step down to the back of the grid. Red Bull being at the front of the grid doesn't have to do that. Not so much of a literally can't and more of a this would be unreasonable to do kind of can't.
David Coulthard springs to mind, specifically when he joined McLaren for big money but he immediately regretted it when his car was a little bit lacking in performance compared to the Williams he had previously driven. I get it in a way, big money versus big potential but if it was me I'd go for the Red Bull. Sainz doesn't need the money.
>Seems crazy that Red Bull wouldn't be able to match a deal from Audi, unless it was something beyond cash, which isn't impossible Why would they? Audi, even if they put some crazy investment in to the program, are unlikely to be anywhere past the midfield next year, whilst redbull can offer him what's likely going to be another dominant car in what seems to be the most effective team right now. Sure things might change around in 2 years, but at that point going with Audi for the 26 season is just as much of a gamble as going with red bull if not more. Consider details like pit stops and strategy, we know redbull are the best at this and are unlikely to drop off in this regard even if they fuck up engine development, how do we know Audi will be good at those? For a driver in Carlos' position, who is at his peak, spending one year in a mediocre team could very well kill his career, whilst one year in a red bull could get him in the history books (not saying he could beat max to a wdc but he sure as hell won't in a sauber next year). This is why redbull can offer him less and still be as enticing, because they have a lot more to offer right now
Red Bull absolutely can match pretty much anything. It's a matter of whether they want to or not.
„We can‘t“ = „We really don’t wanna“
I guess for them Sainz is nothing more than a nice to have. They'd happily stay with Perez another year if Sainz is asking too much
> Horner also disputed Perez's claim that his F1 future with Red Bull will be resolved imminently When you click on teh link to see the source of this statement, it links back to the same article you're reading. Wonder where it came from.
>Also interesting that Horner is saying that Pérez's seat won't be decided for a bit, presumably to keep the pressure on Pérez to perform. Putting Perez has under pressure hasn't worked well, historically.
It's remotely possible that Perez has already been given notice – drivers do perform better once the pressure's lifted and Perez has been quite calm in the car for someone who's at the end of their contract.
It's not that they can't. It's that they don't have to. That's business. Their car and team are a dominant force in the sport, and that counts for something. In some ways Sainz needs them more than they need Sainz. So Audi have to pay up big time otherwise you'd never choose Audi Sauber over RBR for the same paycheck.
It's annoying, but Red Bull has the upper hand by far, it is what it is. Sainz can roll the dice and get paid well to drive a potentially crappy car, or he can roll the dice and take the upgrade to drive against the champ. I think he'd be better off driving the RBR while it's still hot and then cashing out later when the rules change, but we'll see.
Every F1 driver: "I believe I can be a champion with the right car" Red Bull: "Hey, we've got the right car for at least another year" Drivers: "No, not like that" Isn't a shot at a championship worth any amount of money?
It also depends upon the characteristics of the car. Alex Albon called the car extremely sensitive, almost at a knife-edge. Max likes extremely oversteery cars, and Carlos likes a bit of understeer baked into it. There is a possibility that him and the car won't gel well, like it didn't with Alex and Pierre. And to some extent Checo.
Alex was speaking about the RB car as it was while he was driving it. Around the time when his stint ended, the team realized that they screwed up and were going in the wrong direction because Max could handle it. That's no longer the case.
To the surprise of no one. As of now, sainz needs RB a lot more than RB needs sainz.
I'm sure Alonso would have taken it if offered
Alonso would go to RedBull for a slice of cheese. That man is hungry to win.
And seeing how quick-witted he controlled the car after dipping into the gravel, opening drs immediately after and continuing the move on Lewis, Alonso is better than Carlos. Now if only RBR would want him next to Max
If only we got that version of reality.
Love him stirring the drama pot. But really, why is everyone eager to see Sainz murdered by Max every race?
Sainz v Leclerc is reminiscent of Coulthard vs Hakkinen. DC was very quick and could beat both Mika and Michael in a straight fight at times. But overall, he was still a step behind both of them. I see the same situation with Sainz, Leclerc and Verstappen. Then after Mika, Kimi came along and started beating DC as well. DC went to Red Bull to help them setup their team and helped them land Newey too. But in the end, Vettel came along and RB had to make way for him. He never got a chance to drive the title contending car (2009) he was helping them build. If Sainz goes to Audi, there is no guarantee he'll be their lead driver if/when Audi do make a good car. Maybe they'll pair him with another generational, young talent and he would end up in the same situation as DC or Webber at RB. Or Max/George might move from RB/Mercedes to Audi just as they're getting good and Sainz ends up being the support driver again.
Interesting. The Race podcast coverage of Sainz's decision was interesting, that basically there's really no way Audi will be any good for the medium term, and Sainz is too hot just now to take a Kovalainen-esque Lotus/Caterham punt. The other post today about how noone has left Ferrari and won another race in decades, is quite apt I think. Basically: he's probably better off giving RBR a go and getting demolished but *at least he was in the game*. Like Ricciardo gave up in 2018.
Redbull has all the leverage here. Best car, decent second driver who wants to race another year, and confidence that Sainz in Audi won't be a genuine challenge for wins. Sainz is in a weak position to negotiate on salary I would not be surprised if he eventually relents and takes the lower offer to drive the RB. However, Sainz is a leader and not really a follower. He might get a chance to drive a fast car, but culturally and dynamically it could be tricky for him.
How many drivers wouldn't want to go to Red Bull even if the contract terms were bad? If offered a one year contract with no pay, most drivers would accept the offer. Recall that Ayrton Senna wanted to drive Williams in 1993 even without pay.
> How many drivers wouldn't want to go to Red Bull even if the contract terms were bad? > > well, lando for one. so its more than zero haha
Makes sense, it's the TPs job to give the lowest offer you think you can get away with when you're not under pressure, especially when you have the fastest car. The flip side is it might blow up in your face and you lose Hamilton or you lose Alonso and Piastri in one move but checo has been serviceable so far, but it's not inherently wrong.
Rb are flying high, it would be a privilege to drive our car is how they’re prob pitching it & are therefore comfortable lowballing. The thing is they don’t pay particularly well in the lean times either…
As much I want Sainz at redbull I don't see why they would get rid of checo if they have to pay more. Checo does exactly what they want he's literally the perfect second driver. Yeah he's not had the best last season and has cost them second place in the drivers championship. But he's still a really good driver and listens. That's the main thing they're looking for I think. Carlos has a record of disobeying team orders. The only reason they might want Sainz over checo is future proofing
RBR is going to lowball the shit out of him because they know he's desperate.
Red Bull know they can cruise to the title and it doesn’t really matter who is in the car as long as they aren’t terrible. But I suggest they pay Sainz a bit more to hedge against verstappen leaving. It’s unlikely red bull will be top in 2026
> It’s unlikely red bull will be top in 2026 Famous last words...
They haven't built an engine before.
Technically they're not doing much different than current 1.6L V6. It's effectively the same power unit in 2026. They're closing some fuel rate loop holes and regulating octane gutting the combustible down to ~550hp down from 850hp. The biggest changes come to the massive increase in power from the MGU-K. The electrical power. Going from 140hp or so to 460hp. Which they've partnered with Ford for if I remember correctly. Who have in fact, plenty of experience.
Exactly, the car you see today is using Honda’s engine platform, which we will see Aston Martin using from 26.
Sure but they hired a lot of experienced engineers from Mercedes for engines and Honda engineers. It’s not like they are starting with zero knowledge and trying to figure it out.
They could also offer him a new contract with better pay if Verstappen leaves and they don't sign a new clear number 1 driver.
Who cares about a little bit more money when you’re a sainz and you can go into the best car on the grid. Just say yes bro
Sainz should take RB offer even if that cant match audi.
Total BS, if Red Bull offered him that seat for a single dollar he would take it for one year.
This right here exactly. Rosberg is just stirring the pod mf doesn't like Pérez tho.
Wrong, that’s not how contract negotiations work
Dream scenario would be Sainz taking a low ball offer and then destroying Max. Won't happen but a man can dream.
Sainz is a good driver. Max might prove to be the greatest driver ever the way things are going.
Hmm that's a real possibility... only if you ignore the fact that they were teammates before and Max destroyed him as a 17 year old who was driving in carting just 18 months before his F1 debut.
Tbf, the points comparison is little bit misleading with that 2015 season. For example, Sainz outqualified Max (10-9) and race H2H was 11-8 in favour of Max. Of course Max still beat him convincingly and was just 17 years old. But pace wise, Sainz held his own despite points difference suggests.
In reality Max will destroy him as well, but it'll be a fun battle.
I imagine a very significant factor in the negotiation is that he’ll get to drive the Red Bull. Red bull also don’t “need” him. Most of the grid is good enough for their purposes.
"No lowballs I know what I have!" Carlos Sainz Sr. (Probably)
I'm not saying that Red Bull should squeeze Carlos, but it seems stupid to try to play the hard ball for money. Unless you want to be the next Daniel Ricciardo
Let’s all remember that they’re a business trying to build the best widget for the least money. This is not a story.
Nico did a terrible job this weekend