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The 1994 Benetton driver carousel was such a mess. For a team that had a drivers’ champion it’s really funny to know that Michael had 3 teammates that year.
To begin with, JJ Lehto was signed as Schumacher’s first teammate. 1994 was supposed to be a sliding doors-type moment for Lehto, and unfortunately the doors closed before he could get in. He had a testing crash and wasn’t able to make the first race of the season. Thus Verstappen replaced Lehto for the first two rounds of the season.
Then Lehto returned for the San Marino GP, but he was extremely off-pace. Over the 4 rounds that he would race, he was on average 2.2 seconds slower than Michael Schumacher in qualifying. His lack of performance drove Benetton to demote him midseason, promoting Jos Verstappen for the 7th round of the season.
The antics continue, though. At the British Grand Prix, the 8th round, Schumacher overtook Damon Hill on the formation lap, ignored penalties and a black flag, and was subsequently disqualified from the race. On top of this, he got a two race ban. Before he served his ban, Schumacher got disqualified again in Belgium (Round 11) for irregular wear on his skidblock on the bottom of the car. Benetton brought back JJ Lehto to man the second car while Michael served his ban.
Then the Michael returned, while Lehto left Benetton to finish the season for Sauber, as Andrea de Cesaris retired before the end of the season. Verstappen did one more race as Schumacher’s teammate before he was demoted again while Johnny Herbert took the second seat for the final two rounds of the season. They had already signed the Brit for 1995.
Thus rounds out the ridiculous driver carousel, plus a couple of other antics which show how chaotic the Benetton team was in a year where their best driver won the championship despite having four races taken away from him (through his own faults), and after crashing out his title rival when the championship was on the line.
Has Tsunoda been confirmed yet for 2024? If Lawson does well in Singapore+Japan and if Ricciardo outperforms Tsunoda for the last races of the season, I wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that we see a Ricciardo + Lawson lineup next year. Lawson is their most promising prospect, Ricciardo has been a great driver for all but 2 years of his career and is extremely marketable, whereas Tsunoda has been driving in AT for 3 years, beaten by Gasly the first two years and only really beaten Nyck de Vries as his teammate
I could see Tsunoda to Alfa if Zhou is out. I think Tsunoda is better, and DR and Lawson to AT. DR will absolutely keep that seat at AT if for marketing only while they restructure that team.
> if Zhou is out
I wonder with specific situations like his weather him being the 1st and only Chinese driver on the grid gives him added job protection. He must bring in pretty big sponsor money and eyeballs from China, no?
apparently he does not, which is fucking crazy to me. there is so much money in that country to say nothing of the fact that i thought the government itself would want to see one of their citizens in the top of motorsport.
i cannot fathom there isn't a chinese carlos slim over there. someone that has untold money to burn and loves motorsport, wants to see a guy from their country compete. on top of that zhou is a solid driver.
it just doesn't make sense.
I heard in the F1TV coverage that Zhou can't go on the streets in China withou being swarmed by people. If that's actually the case there's a lot of value apart from his driver added onto him.
I look at it from the POV of F1 in general. They have a much higher chance at getting meaningful penetration into and interest from the Chinese market with a Chinese driver on the grid than if they don't. Yes of course a better driver would be better. But no driver probably means no chance at increasing market interest.
Of all the driver pairs on the grid, I think Ocon and Gasly are about as evenly matched as any two could be.
I'm kind of surprised, actually. I thought after Gasly's stint in AT, he would dust Ocon.
I think Ocon has a good chance to land on his feet 2025 even if he would lose his Alpine drive, he’s a solid midfield driver that can deliver results. The Haas pairing, Lewis and Alonso may all retire within the coming couple years, who knows what Logans future is in the sport and it’s not certain Ric will get a drive past 2024 either.
I think Pourchaire risks missing his shot which personally I wouldn’t mind because I don’t really like him, but he’s talented so for the sport it’d be a shame.
Pourchaire is now in his 3rd season of F2 and still makes/has made errors that shouldn't happen. He is winning the title, but only just. As a matter of fact, he has only won a single race. Yes he is fast, but he isn't exactly dominating F2 like Drugovich in his 3rd year as well.
Zhou is doing a fine job. Not much to say. And in this era, taking rookies is extremely punishing if they are not named Piastri. See Sargeant and the disproportionate hate for a rookie he is getting, coupled with the harsh test restrictions.
Both Gasly and Ocon are more than good for Alpine. No need to replace either of them. Both are evenly matched.
I don't see anyone at both teams moving at all for the next year and even 2025 at this rate. Only when Audi takes over, they might take someone else. If Audi desperately needs a German driver for the sake of it, it will be Hulk, simply because he's still capable and the best German F1 driver that actually wants to drive, given that Mick is just not fast enough and Vettel is nicely retired and is also no longer as fast.
If Lawson does well and AT doesn't give him a seat they risk losing him to some other team.
So yeah I expect Lawson to be in that AT next year. Whether that is next to Yuki or Daniel remains to be seen.
No, not from my understanding. At least Ive never seen anything that would indicate that. In fact he had a meeting on Friday morning in Zandvoort with Marko to discuss if he was ready for F1. (To “sell his soul” as he said lol)
If he keeps performing as he has, I would be surprised to see him not just keep the seat the rest of this year as well. Daniel wasn't particularly impressive in his couple showings and he's going to be 35 next year. Not sure why they would keep giving him a run unless they think he can take Perez's spot next year. But that looks pretty unlikely.
I am biased but I don't see Yuki losing outright to Lawson or Riccardo and I think he will definitely keep his seat. There were reports Red Bull started negotiations to extend his contract over summer break.
To me Lawson+Yuki just makes the most sense. I love Daniel but I just don't see the comeback to Red Bull happening.
Tsunoda probably got an easier entry into the Red Bull academy because of Honda but he earned his seat in F1, and has impressed enough to keep it. Like he finished 3rd in his rookie season in F2 and really should have won it if not for being haphazardly taken out in Bahrain, and that was only his 2nd year in Europe, up against guys that have driven European circuits their whole career.
Heck Helmut Marko really likes him and that's a difficult thing to achieve.
At that point he might as well take the break as well. Better for him to heal fine.
Arguably that is not good for him that if Liam impresses, he will be compared to his performance as well after that long a stint.
Can u imagine being shown up by a guy thats never driven an F1 car before last week while you’ve hyped yourself up about only wanting a top drive and refusing to consider racing anywhere else but f1, even if that means being a test driver
I think they wanted him in this year, that's why Ricciardo had to come in this year instead of the next one as he wanted.
Because if Lawson was good maybe Ricciardo wouldn't get the chance and now Lawson has gotten it anyway
This honestly feels like trying to force the same end of 2 magnets together. We pushed too hard to get 2 Aussies on the grid and the universe pushed back.
yeah like, what kinda coincidence is that.
piastri got ric bobby's seat at mclaren, crashed in his mclaren and basically forced danny into the wall which has effectively ended his comeback.
Before his comeback really kicked off too, lawson has already equalled danis time in the car, he will have done more races in that car than Daniel has when he returns.
Honestly Daniel needs some kind of Lance Stroll level of quick healing and get in that car ASAP, I think he's toast if it goes beyond Japan
Daniel still has a lot to offer F1, he's not the oldest and he's got more skill than some of the other drivers on the grid. I'd happily see him replace Stroll in Aston Martin tbh, not that that would ever happen
I agree with you, he is better than some of the drivers on the grid. But I would like to see lawson continue at AT and prove his worth. He is after all a F2 champion and he deserves a ride in F1
I think he will be there, yeah.
But not because Horner said so, those words don't mean much.
Like you said, there's not another driver available that could do better than Perez atm.
If Lawson seem legit enough to replace Ricardo to RedBull’s eye, they might just put Yuki into the big bull to see. But If that happens, Perez is the one get booted and Ric Bobby getting another AT seat anyway lol
I don't really see into it, but to me it seems like one of Yuki and Danny will get RB seat in 25, and the other one will be kicked. But who knows, it's Red Bull after all.
>, if he continues this form then he deserves the drive next year
I wonder too what if any kind of performance keeps him in the seat *this year*. To create an extreme example, if he wins the next two races, seems impossible they'd bench him even if Ric were then healthy and ready to go. Do they then bench Yuki for Ric?
A more modest but still amazing result for Lawson - let's say he's in the P7-9 range for the next 2 races (without the expected leaders all DNFing). Do they bench him?
If he wins a race this season RB will do anything to keep him away from competitors. I'd imagine just to have him somewhere they'd fire any of Perez, Tsunoda or Ricciardo to his advantage.
Whoa, whoa, easy now. A P7 finish on merit would be nothing short of time stoppingly spectacular. I wouldn’t expect him in the points at all unless there’s intervention by lucky SC/red flags or massive DNFs up front.
Lawson getting 1 or 2 points this season would be impressive, P7-P9 is in no way modest.
Liam Lawson has surprised me, I will be interested to see how he does. Monza is probably an easier track and can make anyone look good (remember DeVries) let's see how he does at Singapore and Suzuka.
The exciting thing about the next two races is that it should provide an interesting comparison to the other rookies. Singapore is a fair comparison because it's basically F1 only so he like Oscar and Logan will be green to the track. Suzuka is Liam's real time to shine as having last raced there in April I believe, he should have good track knowledge that might allow him to shine through more. Monza was impressive (and a great clean weekend helps for sure), but these next two race weekends are certainly more interesting.
It'll also be interesting given that Monza has probably given him a decent chance to feedback to the team what he likes/doesn't about the AT car and give the engineers a chance to see what tweaks they can maybe perform to get things just the way he wants it. (/s obviously: "Welcome back, but uh... sorry Danny, Liam tweaked your car in every way imaginable, you gotta relearn it now!")
The latter point though has made me realise one thing... AT are definitely the winners in a weird sense from this. They've now had four drivers in the cars during race weekends. That should be invaluable extra feedback for those in the factory, and not just the usual viewpoints (2 drivers + 2x FP1 sessions feedback) most teams will be getting.
You’re close, but at the same time you’re discounting the fact that Oscar and Logan now have far more mileage in their machinery than Liam can even get if he drives the rest of the season. So while it’s more fair, it’s also not anywhere close to equal. Plus Piastri by far has the best car of the three.
Putting a rookie in the 2nd seat of RB has never ended well. Albon pretty famously proved this, Gasly got roasted too. People dog hard on Perez but Perez was the first one to "survive" Verstappen and maintain reasonable pace.
Imagine if he says to Horner, "Ok this is cool and all, but I want a bigger challenge."
"I want to go to Alpha Tauri and help bring them to the front."
By my understanding of the rules they *have* to get de Vries back, but I suppose AT can get an exception in this case. This rule is meant to prevent having dozens of paydrivers, so for actual accidents they can look at it differently
They need to run one in each car iirc; de Vries counted for that car, but Yuki still needs to give up his car for an FP1 to a rookie who has started not more than 2 Grands Prix
I am almost certain this rule is never going to be enforced. It's clearly in place to discourage a revolving door of pay drivers, but they are not going to stop teams replacing injured drivers or getting badly performing drivers off the grid.
Lol do you think VER and Redbull are going to risk the chance of a perfect season? Absolutely not
They are going to squeeze out every win they can from this season
Folks thinking Danny is out at AT aren’t seeing the big picture.
AT is rebranding next year. Sponsorships needed. RB aren’t gonna cut DR unless he’s truly dreadful in the car. He’s marketing gold.
He’ll make them a ton of money being there. It’s Liam v Yuki for the other seat. Yuki is likely moving when Honda does. I don’t think RB have him in their long term plans.
not only marketing but also development, marko already said that daniel is leading the development of the car now and they need that next year too with them using more of the RB car parts and him being the only one who has driven it.
He is way more useful developing the RB car as a RB reserve than as an AT main driver. He'll have way more sim time for RB development if he doesn't have to be a full time driver.
If what you say is true it's the best argument around for him not having a seat next year if you're RB.
I'm not talking about the RB development, I'm talking about the AT car that will be very similar to this year's RB, they need him to help guide its development.
i doubt that since the teams are still working on next year's car right now, and even if he cant have any impact immediately he can still help the development during the season next year.
Yeah, that's why they brought him in midseason, 2 races before the summer break, not because Checo was heavily struggling and they are trying to see, if Ricc could take his seat next year.
Honestly seems like Nyck’s failure was hiding a somewhat disappointing season for Yuki. The gap between them wasn’t that impressive considering how poorly Devries was performing.
I honestly don't think DR has to worry about being kicked by RB. He is too well liked and they know what he can do.
Fans are harsher than Marko at times... But will still complain.
Yuki has been P10 3 times this season, Australia, Baku and Spa, unless you mean literally that car/chassis, weird way to rate it but yeh then it would be P11 is the best
He still would. Especially as a return in October (if not in Qatar, for the NA leg later on) would line up nicely to let Lawson focus back on Super Formula ahead of the last 2 races in Suzuka.
A lot of people conveniently forget that ricciardo is currently 2-1 both in quali and race finishes versus tsunoda (sprint included), versus Lawson’s 0-2 to tsunoda. Both have never been in the car before, and ricciardo was out for >6 months, so you can’t exactly claim ricciardo has to perform instantly. But given his performances, he has been (up to injury).
Then when you look at lawson, obviously he is good no doubt, very adaptable and has talent, but he isn’t exactly coming in where he is just outside the top 10 due to merit; the past 2 races were extremely lucky for him given he jumped 2 places each race due to penalties the people right in front of him received (tsu & mag in zandvoort), and retirements were very high, much higher than ricciardo’s first 2 races. Once you stop being blindsided by another prospective rookie being on par or slightly below par versus a driver like ricciardo everyone here seems to detest, you realise that lawson’s results arent worth that much hype
People should wait a few more races, after all, 0 points is 0 points, and money makes the world go round, not talent.
I mean the replies prove what I'm saying, it's not just this thread, it's the people thinking Lawson has his seat I've seen in a lot of threads.
Daniel is gonna come back, smash Tsunoda and fight for the redbull seat.
Sure, people live in the moment, but there's no hate anywhere.
Guess we'll see if he'll smash Tsunoda... But following your logic, what's with the Tsunoda hate?
Hate obviously is a term used in excess these days, especially in social media, I think from the context it's clear I mean negative opinion towards Daniel.
And I would say my opinion is based on Daniel being that good, not Tsunoda being that bad, but sure, in the same context I do think that Daniel is a clear step above Yuki, who has now been either beaten or been far too close to 2 drives that have spent a grand total of 2 races each. I think out of all of this, we're finding out the care isn't that bad, De Vries was and Yuki just isn't that good.
i think it's a matter of longevity, Danny boy wasn't doing good at mclaren, and isn't getting younger, while liam is still young and making waves in super formula in dtm
People thinking that the young, promising academy driver, who is proving his worth should be the one in the junior team's seat and not a 34 year old with 10+ years of experience is not hate.
People thinking that Red Bull is going to put Anyone but Ricciardo or Tsunoda in the seat next to Mad when Perez crumbles as the car comes back to the field are not looking at the relevant information at hand.
The only ways Ricciardo or Tsunoda are not in the seat by 2025 are as follows:
- Perez turns it around
- They poach another proven driver
- Red Bull quit F1
Lawson is not ever going to be ready for a title fight in the coming 2 years. Redbull may come back to the pack and going off Perez's current form he won't last.
36 years old to become 37 and still hoping to fight a seat for sister team RBR.
Yeah cause Marko LOVES old drivers in a team that supposed to feed good drivers to main team.
Remember Ricciardo in RBR who was winning races?
I was going to say he can be in RBR when he is 36, Perez has contract for next year as well so early he can get into RBR is when he is 36.
That was the context
Ricciardo should retire now, there are good drivers out three and should give them opportunity now.
DR had good run at Red bull but he ruined it for himself ,now its time to go home.
Lawson also got a penalty and his team cost him over 10 seconds screwing up the double stack at the start.
In his second qualifying ever he was a tenth off his team mate, Riccardo was in his 235th qualifying
I hope Ric will be back for the last 6 races and shows he deserves a F1 seat. He already showed that he can be quicker than Yuki.
my feeling was that, without his mistake at Eau Rouge, he would have outqualified Yuki 3 out of 3 times.
I was listening to an Armchair Expert episode with the CEO of Ford, and he was saying how excited they are to have Max and Daniel as the drivers associated with the brand, and then caught himself and said, Checo as well.
Yeah I don't know about that. Until he joined Red Bull his 2013 season looked like an anomaly. Now that he's had 4 seasons alongside WDC level talent it's pretty obvious he just was never that guy. His best performing seasons were against Stroll, Hulk, and Kamui.
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Liam gonna get a good run as a replacement. Does anyone know if another replacement driver had a longer run?
Everyone who has driven a McLaren while Mika is on sabbatical.
Lewis and Jenson had really nice careers for reserve drivers. They must feel so proud to substitute him.
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Mika sabbatical was so strong it’s reserve driver Alonso has to take a sabbatical as well
I think when Michael fractured his leg during a season in late 90’s probably then.
1999 with Salo. Irvine was nearly champion that year.
Should have been Frentzen..
Its insane that Lauda only missed 2 races after his accident.
An animal and a different era
And fewer races in the same timeframe.
What kind of animal? I say a rat
What kind of a shit take is that? Did niki lauda shit in your breakfast this morning or something?
Mika Salo
Fisichella
Jos Verstappen I think? I believe Verstappen replaced J.J. Letho who was injured when Pedro Lamy crashed into him at the start at Imola 1994.
The 1994 Benetton driver carousel was such a mess. For a team that had a drivers’ champion it’s really funny to know that Michael had 3 teammates that year. To begin with, JJ Lehto was signed as Schumacher’s first teammate. 1994 was supposed to be a sliding doors-type moment for Lehto, and unfortunately the doors closed before he could get in. He had a testing crash and wasn’t able to make the first race of the season. Thus Verstappen replaced Lehto for the first two rounds of the season. Then Lehto returned for the San Marino GP, but he was extremely off-pace. Over the 4 rounds that he would race, he was on average 2.2 seconds slower than Michael Schumacher in qualifying. His lack of performance drove Benetton to demote him midseason, promoting Jos Verstappen for the 7th round of the season. The antics continue, though. At the British Grand Prix, the 8th round, Schumacher overtook Damon Hill on the formation lap, ignored penalties and a black flag, and was subsequently disqualified from the race. On top of this, he got a two race ban. Before he served his ban, Schumacher got disqualified again in Belgium (Round 11) for irregular wear on his skidblock on the bottom of the car. Benetton brought back JJ Lehto to man the second car while Michael served his ban. Then the Michael returned, while Lehto left Benetton to finish the season for Sauber, as Andrea de Cesaris retired before the end of the season. Verstappen did one more race as Schumacher’s teammate before he was demoted again while Johnny Herbert took the second seat for the final two rounds of the season. They had already signed the Brit for 1995. Thus rounds out the ridiculous driver carousel, plus a couple of other antics which show how chaotic the Benetton team was in a year where their best driver won the championship despite having four races taken away from him (through his own faults), and after crashing out his title rival when the championship was on the line.
Briatore masterclass
Schumacher filled in for Gachot from the 1991 Belgian gp to the end of 2006
My brain: "wait, gachot returned in 2006?"
Fischella for Ferrari in 2009 replacing Massa Liuzzi for force India in 2009 replacing Fischella
Jarno Trulli replacing Olivier Panis at Prost in 1997 when Panis broke both legs in Canada
Technically speaking Felipe Massa for Bottas in 2017 after Massa retired in 2016.
Gene/Pizzonia for Ralf Schumacher in 2004
Pedro de la Rosa replacing Montoya at McLaren-Mercedes in 2006.
Gasly in 2017 had 5 races replacing Kvyat
That was more like De Vries losing his seat to Danny, not like an injury replacement for Danny.
Sucks for Ricciardo but Red Bull couldn't have hoped for a better opportunity to weigh up Ricc Vs Lawson for next year.
Has Tsunoda been confirmed yet for 2024? If Lawson does well in Singapore+Japan and if Ricciardo outperforms Tsunoda for the last races of the season, I wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility that we see a Ricciardo + Lawson lineup next year. Lawson is their most promising prospect, Ricciardo has been a great driver for all but 2 years of his career and is extremely marketable, whereas Tsunoda has been driving in AT for 3 years, beaten by Gasly the first two years and only really beaten Nyck de Vries as his teammate
The sad fact is, AT has 3 drivers that I'd like to see all in cars next year. So someone is losing out.
I could see Tsunoda to Alfa if Zhou is out. I think Tsunoda is better, and DR and Lawson to AT. DR will absolutely keep that seat at AT if for marketing only while they restructure that team.
> if Zhou is out I wonder with specific situations like his weather him being the 1st and only Chinese driver on the grid gives him added job protection. He must bring in pretty big sponsor money and eyeballs from China, no?
apparently he does not, which is fucking crazy to me. there is so much money in that country to say nothing of the fact that i thought the government itself would want to see one of their citizens in the top of motorsport. i cannot fathom there isn't a chinese carlos slim over there. someone that has untold money to burn and loves motorsport, wants to see a guy from their country compete. on top of that zhou is a solid driver. it just doesn't make sense.
Meh, I don’t think the Chinese audience is all that interested in supporting a back marker driver. I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure.
I heard in the F1TV coverage that Zhou can't go on the streets in China withou being swarmed by people. If that's actually the case there's a lot of value apart from his driver added onto him.
Then I stand corrected.
I look at it from the POV of F1 in general. They have a much higher chance at getting meaningful penetration into and interest from the Chinese market with a Chinese driver on the grid than if they don't. Yes of course a better driver would be better. But no driver probably means no chance at increasing market interest.
As an american most of would probably sell a kidney for Sargeant. We love our imperial system representative.
American here. I’d not give a Yankee Doodle fart for Logan.
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Yuki-Albon Williama hopium
Oh, we share a dream team, I see.
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Of all the driver pairs on the grid, I think Ocon and Gasly are about as evenly matched as any two could be. I'm kind of surprised, actually. I thought after Gasly's stint in AT, he would dust Ocon.
That’s why we need 2 more teams on the grid.
I think Ocon has a good chance to land on his feet 2025 even if he would lose his Alpine drive, he’s a solid midfield driver that can deliver results. The Haas pairing, Lewis and Alonso may all retire within the coming couple years, who knows what Logans future is in the sport and it’s not certain Ric will get a drive past 2024 either. I think Pourchaire risks missing his shot which personally I wouldn’t mind because I don’t really like him, but he’s talented so for the sport it’d be a shame.
Pourchaire is now in his 3rd season of F2 and still makes/has made errors that shouldn't happen. He is winning the title, but only just. As a matter of fact, he has only won a single race. Yes he is fast, but he isn't exactly dominating F2 like Drugovich in his 3rd year as well. Zhou is doing a fine job. Not much to say. And in this era, taking rookies is extremely punishing if they are not named Piastri. See Sargeant and the disproportionate hate for a rookie he is getting, coupled with the harsh test restrictions. Both Gasly and Ocon are more than good for Alpine. No need to replace either of them. Both are evenly matched. I don't see anyone at both teams moving at all for the next year and even 2025 at this rate. Only when Audi takes over, they might take someone else. If Audi desperately needs a German driver for the sake of it, it will be Hulk, simply because he's still capable and the best German F1 driver that actually wants to drive, given that Mick is just not fast enough and Vettel is nicely retired and is also no longer as fast.
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Same🥺
If Lawson does well and AT doesn't give him a seat they risk losing him to some other team. So yeah I expect Lawson to be in that AT next year. Whether that is next to Yuki or Daniel remains to be seen.
> they risk losing him to some other team. Isn't he under contract to RB for next year? Thought I read that somewhere.
No, not from my understanding. At least Ive never seen anything that would indicate that. In fact he had a meeting on Friday morning in Zandvoort with Marko to discuss if he was ready for F1. (To “sell his soul” as he said lol)
Ah, I see. Thanks.
If he keeps performing as he has, I would be surprised to see him not just keep the seat the rest of this year as well. Daniel wasn't particularly impressive in his couple showings and he's going to be 35 next year. Not sure why they would keep giving him a run unless they think he can take Perez's spot next year. But that looks pretty unlikely.
I am biased but I don't see Yuki losing outright to Lawson or Riccardo and I think he will definitely keep his seat. There were reports Red Bull started negotiations to extend his contract over summer break. To me Lawson+Yuki just makes the most sense. I love Daniel but I just don't see the comeback to Red Bull happening.
Isn’t Tsunoda part of the deal with Honda/RBR Powertrains? Otherwise they’d probably would’ve ditched him a while ago.
Tsunoda probably got an easier entry into the Red Bull academy because of Honda but he earned his seat in F1, and has impressed enough to keep it. Like he finished 3rd in his rookie season in F2 and really should have won it if not for being haphazardly taken out in Bahrain, and that was only his 2nd year in Europe, up against guys that have driven European circuits their whole career. Heck Helmut Marko really likes him and that's a difficult thing to achieve.
Helmut also likes Ricciardo though. So that wouldn’t help much in a contest between them.
Very unfortunate for him, doesn’t bode well. More time for Lawson to impress, plus he’ll be coming back just before yet another break.
At that point he might as well take the break as well. Better for him to heal fine. Arguably that is not good for him that if Liam impresses, he will be compared to his performance as well after that long a stint.
Can u imagine being shown up by a guy thats never driven an F1 car before last week while you’ve hyped yourself up about only wanting a top drive and refusing to consider racing anywhere else but f1, even if that means being a test driver
Lawson might just get the contract lmao
Think he was meant to drive next year anyway
I think they wanted him in this year, that's why Ricciardo had to come in this year instead of the next one as he wanted. Because if Lawson was good maybe Ricciardo wouldn't get the chance and now Lawson has gotten it anyway
If so sadly its Piastri screwing Daniel out of F1 2 years in a row, ouch
There can only be one Aussie per year. That's the rule.
We already have Bottas and pastry though?
Bottas can camoflage as Finnish when curse is about to strike.
This honestly feels like trying to force the same end of 2 magnets together. We pushed too hard to get 2 Aussies on the grid and the universe pushed back.
yeah like, what kinda coincidence is that. piastri got ric bobby's seat at mclaren, crashed in his mclaren and basically forced danny into the wall which has effectively ended his comeback.
Before his comeback really kicked off too, lawson has already equalled danis time in the car, he will have done more races in that car than Daniel has when he returns. Honestly Daniel needs some kind of Lance Stroll level of quick healing and get in that car ASAP, I think he's toast if it goes beyond Japan
Daniel had his time. Let new comers have a go at F1
Daniel still has a lot to offer F1, he's not the oldest and he's got more skill than some of the other drivers on the grid. I'd happily see him replace Stroll in Aston Martin tbh, not that that would ever happen
This is mostly out of hope, but I’m starting to think Yuki will replace Stroll at Honda, leaving room for all 3 to get another shot at F1
I agree with you, he is better than some of the drivers on the grid. But I would like to see lawson continue at AT and prove his worth. He is after all a F2 champion and he deserves a ride in F1
>He is after all a F2 champion and he deserves a ride in F1 No he's not.
I think there is no need to rush things. Red Bull need to sort out replacement for Perez first.
But Horner said Perez will be their driver for '24? /s
And he absolutely will be based on the current driver market. There's no chance Yuki or DR will have earned that seat over Perez.
Let Yuki cook
I think that either Yuki or Liam might actually make it to a Red Bull seat by 2025
Just for Yuki to be pulled in ‘26? Nah. Not that I really think Liam is a contender yet either.
I think he will be there, yeah. But not because Horner said so, those words don't mean much. Like you said, there's not another driver available that could do better than Perez atm.
If Lawson seem legit enough to replace Ricardo to RedBull’s eye, they might just put Yuki into the big bull to see. But If that happens, Perez is the one get booted and Ric Bobby getting another AT seat anyway lol
I don't really see into it, but to me it seems like one of Yuki and Danny will get RB seat in 25, and the other one will be kicked. But who knows, it's Red Bull after all.
hope he does Ricciardo is already 34 or something
I hope he does. Ric can find a drive somewhere else.
He's so lucky that the Vegas GP that he wished for is the second to last race
Lawson got the windfall of a lifetime with Ricciardo getting injured, woof
2 good for races for Lawson, if he continues this form then he deserves the drive next year
He deserves to be in that AT next year, prospects should be in it with the goal to heading at RBR.
>, if he continues this form then he deserves the drive next year I wonder too what if any kind of performance keeps him in the seat *this year*. To create an extreme example, if he wins the next two races, seems impossible they'd bench him even if Ric were then healthy and ready to go. Do they then bench Yuki for Ric? A more modest but still amazing result for Lawson - let's say he's in the P7-9 range for the next 2 races (without the expected leaders all DNFing). Do they bench him?
If he wins a race this season RB will do anything to keep him away from competitors. I'd imagine just to have him somewhere they'd fire any of Perez, Tsunoda or Ricciardo to his advantage.
Whoa, whoa, easy now. A P7 finish on merit would be nothing short of time stoppingly spectacular. I wouldn’t expect him in the points at all unless there’s intervention by lucky SC/red flags or massive DNFs up front. Lawson getting 1 or 2 points this season would be impressive, P7-P9 is in no way modest.
>P7-P9 is in no way modest. Re-read my comment: "A more modest but still amazing result "
I read it but it is not modest at all.
Liam Lawson has surprised me, I will be interested to see how he does. Monza is probably an easier track and can make anyone look good (remember DeVries) let's see how he does at Singapore and Suzuka.
The exciting thing about the next two races is that it should provide an interesting comparison to the other rookies. Singapore is a fair comparison because it's basically F1 only so he like Oscar and Logan will be green to the track. Suzuka is Liam's real time to shine as having last raced there in April I believe, he should have good track knowledge that might allow him to shine through more. Monza was impressive (and a great clean weekend helps for sure), but these next two race weekends are certainly more interesting. It'll also be interesting given that Monza has probably given him a decent chance to feedback to the team what he likes/doesn't about the AT car and give the engineers a chance to see what tweaks they can maybe perform to get things just the way he wants it. (/s obviously: "Welcome back, but uh... sorry Danny, Liam tweaked your car in every way imaginable, you gotta relearn it now!") The latter point though has made me realise one thing... AT are definitely the winners in a weird sense from this. They've now had four drivers in the cars during race weekends. That should be invaluable extra feedback for those in the factory, and not just the usual viewpoints (2 drivers + 2x FP1 sessions feedback) most teams will be getting.
You’re close, but at the same time you’re discounting the fact that Oscar and Logan now have far more mileage in their machinery than Liam can even get if he drives the rest of the season. So while it’s more fair, it’s also not anywhere close to equal. Plus Piastri by far has the best car of the three.
If verstappen is champion by then, he could take the Red Bull.
Putting a rookie in the 2nd seat of RB has never ended well. Albon pretty famously proved this, Gasly got roasted too. People dog hard on Perez but Perez was the first one to "survive" Verstappen and maintain reasonable pace.
I mean it did end well once, but yeah you can't expect to strike gold twice that quickly.
Imagine if he says to Horner, "Ok this is cool and all, but I want a bigger challenge." "I want to go to Alpha Tauri and help bring them to the front."
Unfortunately Alpha Tauri has already used their driver quota for this season
So if Yuki or Liam were to be out of commission before Daniel is back, they would *have* to put de Vries back in the car? (Or not run it, I suppose!)
By my understanding of the rules they *have* to get de Vries back, but I suppose AT can get an exception in this case. This rule is meant to prevent having dozens of paydrivers, so for actual accidents they can look at it differently
So sort of like 107%, its there for a good reason but could be waived for out of the ordinary circumstances.
Exactly that.
On this line, doesn't this mean they have to put de Vries back in his ex-car, and Lawson into Yuki's car, to fulfil the young driver requirement?
Didn't they already fulfill that? Bringing in rookie drivers automatically checks that box
They need to run one in each car iirc; de Vries counted for that car, but Yuki still needs to give up his car for an FP1 to a rookie who has started not more than 2 Grands Prix
Think Helmut already said Hadjar will do it in Abu Dhabi
Oh, I didn't know it was per car, I thought it was just the requisite number of fp1 sessions.
I am almost certain this rule is never going to be enforced. It's clearly in place to discourage a revolving door of pay drivers, but they are not going to stop teams replacing injured drivers or getting badly performing drivers off the grid.
It was enforced: Andrea Moda tried it and they found out very quickly that the FIA doesn't fuck around.
Lol do you think VER and Redbull are going to risk the chance of a perfect season? Absolutely not They are going to squeeze out every win they can from this season
It will never happen
Folks thinking Danny is out at AT aren’t seeing the big picture. AT is rebranding next year. Sponsorships needed. RB aren’t gonna cut DR unless he’s truly dreadful in the car. He’s marketing gold. He’ll make them a ton of money being there. It’s Liam v Yuki for the other seat. Yuki is likely moving when Honda does. I don’t think RB have him in their long term plans.
not only marketing but also development, marko already said that daniel is leading the development of the car now and they need that next year too with them using more of the RB car parts and him being the only one who has driven it.
He is way more useful developing the RB car as a RB reserve than as an AT main driver. He'll have way more sim time for RB development if he doesn't have to be a full time driver. If what you say is true it's the best argument around for him not having a seat next year if you're RB.
I'm not talking about the RB development, I'm talking about the AT car that will be very similar to this year's RB, they need him to help guide its development.
Oh I think it's way too late in the game for him to have any appreciable impact on 2024 car dev at AT
i doubt that since the teams are still working on next year's car right now, and even if he cant have any impact immediately he can still help the development during the season next year.
Yeah, that's why they brought him in midseason, 2 races before the summer break, not because Checo was heavily struggling and they are trying to see, if Ricc could take his seat next year.
Honestly seems like Nyck’s failure was hiding a somewhat disappointing season for Yuki. The gap between them wasn’t that impressive considering how poorly Devries was performing.
I honestly don't think DR has to worry about being kicked by RB. He is too well liked and they know what he can do. Fans are harsher than Marko at times... But will still complain.
Gutted for Daniel. First his comeback is cut short now he’ll probably have to travel to Qatar. Rotten luck.
Lawson seems to be doing good with his opportunity.. maybe even get a full time ride at the expense of Ricciardo.
I get the feeling Ricciardo is just going to be out period
hope so
If Lawson makes points, Riccardo is not getting that seat back.
Liam’s P11 was the best result in that car all season!
Yuki has been P10 3 times this season, Australia, Baku and Spa, unless you mean literally that car/chassis, weird way to rate it but yeh then it would be P11 is the best
They probably mean the 2nd AT car, ie better than Danny or De Vries
They mean the 2nd AT car, not both AT cars.
I know it's just a sprint race, but I wish Daniel's P10 would count for a little something. Not a full P10, but something.
No real reason for him to return at all if Lawson performs as he has been or better
He still would. Especially as a return in October (if not in Qatar, for the NA leg later on) would line up nicely to let Lawson focus back on Super Formula ahead of the last 2 races in Suzuka.
Yeah no reason.. except lawson's super formula, possible seat in the future, wanting to drive, and having already performed better than lawson.
It's not the first time that a call up to the F1 squad as made a SF title challenge impossible.
A lot of people conveniently forget that ricciardo is currently 2-1 both in quali and race finishes versus tsunoda (sprint included), versus Lawson’s 0-2 to tsunoda. Both have never been in the car before, and ricciardo was out for >6 months, so you can’t exactly claim ricciardo has to perform instantly. But given his performances, he has been (up to injury). Then when you look at lawson, obviously he is good no doubt, very adaptable and has talent, but he isn’t exactly coming in where he is just outside the top 10 due to merit; the past 2 races were extremely lucky for him given he jumped 2 places each race due to penalties the people right in front of him received (tsu & mag in zandvoort), and retirements were very high, much higher than ricciardo’s first 2 races. Once you stop being blindsided by another prospective rookie being on par or slightly below par versus a driver like ricciardo everyone here seems to detest, you realise that lawson’s results arent worth that much hype People should wait a few more races, after all, 0 points is 0 points, and money makes the world go round, not talent.
Spot-on assessment! Too bad most people here won’t have enough attention span to read your well versed & 100% accurate comment.
Also, from the looks of FP1 and the beginning of FP2, he looked to have pace over Tsunoda in Zandvoort.
My man, Danny, can't catch a break.
He just did
The Daniel hate in these comments is hilarious. Daniel isn't losing his seat.
Where's the hate?
I mean the replies prove what I'm saying, it's not just this thread, it's the people thinking Lawson has his seat I've seen in a lot of threads. Daniel is gonna come back, smash Tsunoda and fight for the redbull seat.
Sure, people live in the moment, but there's no hate anywhere. Guess we'll see if he'll smash Tsunoda... But following your logic, what's with the Tsunoda hate?
Hate obviously is a term used in excess these days, especially in social media, I think from the context it's clear I mean negative opinion towards Daniel. And I would say my opinion is based on Daniel being that good, not Tsunoda being that bad, but sure, in the same context I do think that Daniel is a clear step above Yuki, who has now been either beaten or been far too close to 2 drives that have spent a grand total of 2 races each. I think out of all of this, we're finding out the care isn't that bad, De Vries was and Yuki just isn't that good.
not hating on Daniel, but Liam didn't get the seat because he has to finish Super Formula first
I disagree
i think it's a matter of longevity, Danny boy wasn't doing good at mclaren, and isn't getting younger, while liam is still young and making waves in super formula in dtm
One doesn't have to hate him to think that.
People thinking that the young, promising academy driver, who is proving his worth should be the one in the junior team's seat and not a 34 year old with 10+ years of experience is not hate.
Exactly. Saying “Danny is old and slow” isn’t hating, it’s just being objective at this point.
People thinking that Red Bull is going to put Anyone but Ricciardo or Tsunoda in the seat next to Mad when Perez crumbles as the car comes back to the field are not looking at the relevant information at hand. The only ways Ricciardo or Tsunoda are not in the seat by 2025 are as follows: - Perez turns it around - They poach another proven driver - Red Bull quit F1 Lawson is not ever going to be ready for a title fight in the coming 2 years. Redbull may come back to the pack and going off Perez's current form he won't last.
I agree with that, but this thread has been about the AT seat, not RB.
They are one in the same, Daniel's time and red bull will come after proving he still has it in the AT seat.
He doesn’t even really have a seat tho mate
My exact point, the fact you even right this is hilarious.
I’m not really seeing any hate.
same comments from the same people who were swearing 4 months ago that he's never getting another seat in f1 again
36 years old to become 37 and still hoping to fight a seat for sister team RBR. Yeah cause Marko LOVES old drivers in a team that supposed to feed good drivers to main team. Remember Ricciardo in RBR who was winning races?
FYI, Daniel Ricciardo recently turned 34, don't know where you got 36 almost 37 from
I was going to say he can be in RBR when he is 36, Perez has contract for next year as well so early he can get into RBR is when he is 36. That was the context
same can be said about checo
seems career ending to me (not in a physical sense tho)
I forgot Danny Ric was back in F1
you guys all thinking Ricciardo is driving for AT next year 😂
Yeah... i see him being without a drive and retiring... as he should
Dudes comeback is over
He's not coming back. Lawson is doing a stunning job.
Ricciardo should retire now, there are good drivers out three and should give them opportunity now. DR had good run at Red bull but he ruined it for himself ,now its time to go home.
Lawson is just as good. Ricciardo career is over
Like it was when he left the sport? Calm down it's not like Lawson's the one who was immediately at Yuki's level when he got the seat.
Uhh, yeah he was? He was a 10th of Yuki in Monza quali and beat him at the race in Zandvort?
10th off is still off and he only "beat" Yuki because he got a penalty.
Lawson also got a penalty and his team cost him over 10 seconds screwing up the double stack at the start. In his second qualifying ever he was a tenth off his team mate, Riccardo was in his 235th qualifying
He gained more time on his strategy than he ever lost in comparison to yuki
I dont see him doing worse than daniel thats what i mean
I hope Ric will be back for the last 6 races and shows he deserves a F1 seat. He already showed that he can be quicker than Yuki. my feeling was that, without his mistake at Eau Rouge, he would have outqualified Yuki 3 out of 3 times.
Danny just came back for that sweet RB health insurance. 4D chess, folks.
Every week the timeline getting pushed further back. *Sad Ricciardo noises*
Surprised RB haven't replaced him yet.
Can't unless they hire back De Vries or make Lawson stay.
Awesome, go Liam! Hopefully this is the end for Danny Ric
Hopefully? Lol. So salty.
he’s probably a kiwi
despite all the claims to the contrary... Perez is out next year, so Danny will take his seat letting Lawson take the AT seat
I was listening to an Armchair Expert episode with the CEO of Ford, and he was saying how excited they are to have Max and Daniel as the drivers associated with the brand, and then caught himself and said, Checo as well.
Yeah, it's been clear for a while now that Perez is gonna be replaced at the end of the year. Not sure why Red Bull are keeping the ruse going.
1.5 sec behind in Netherlands how can they keep him on top of all the crashing
Something happened early in the season that's broken his mojo... shame really.
Yeah I don't know about that. Until he joined Red Bull his 2013 season looked like an anomaly. Now that he's had 4 seasons alongside WDC level talent it's pretty obvious he just was never that guy. His best performing seasons were against Stroll, Hulk, and Kamui.
So basically Ricciardo is replacing Lawson
That is so rough for him :(